This guidance counselor gig is not for the faint of heart

[Luckymama]

:eek:

 

That is all.

[EKS]

The guidance counselor thing was by far the most difficult thing I had to do as a homeschooler.  

 

[cjzimmer1]

Yep I totally agree.  I remember all those comments when my kids were little about homeschooling and what was I going todo for high school. Surely I wasn't planning to homeschool high school.  Homeschooling (the education part) high school is a piece of cake.  But no one ever warned me how hard this guidance counselor stuff is.  Now I now why several of my friends put their SENIORS in a virtual school.  All of this suddenly wasn't their problem anymore.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

:eek:

 

That is all.

 

I so agree.

 

I think it would be a little easier to be a counselor to kids who were not my own.  Less emotional baggage in both directions.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Yep I totally agree.  I remember all those comments when my kids were little about homeschooling and what was I going todo for high school. Surely I wasn't planning to homeschool high school.  Homeschooling (the education part) high school is a piece of cake.  But no one ever warned me how hard this guidance counselor stuff is.  Now I now why several of my friends put their SENIORS in a virtual school.  All of this suddenly wasn't their problem anymore.

 

I'm not sure that my kids would be getting better service from a charter or virtual school.  The formatting of the documents has been relatively easy.  It's figuring out exactly what to say that has been a challenge to me.

[Jenny in Florida]

So, yet more evidence that I'm weird (as if that weren't already abundantly clear): I actually really enjoyed that part. 

 

First of all, I find everything to do with education -- including college admissions -- really fascinating. Although I am far from organized in much of my daily life, I kept really good and thorough records of both of my kids' homeschooling careers, meaning I had plenty of material to work with. Basic, non-fiction writing comes easily to me, and I love to talk about my kids. I'm enjoy research, and desktop publishing has been something of a hobby of mine on and off over the years. 

 

I suppose, in a way, my peculiar assortment of skills and interests made me pretty well suited to the whole guidance counselor gig.

 

Now, if I could only find a way to make a living doing that . . .

[Tsuga]

Mine told me that, although I had the highest SAT and PSAT scores anyone in my high school had ever gotten, that majoring in mathematics might be too hard for me. He also told me that he couldn't help with scholarship applications.

 

AFAIK he's still at that high school, 20 years older and more bitter.

 

So, there's your baseline. You'll do great.

[regentrude]

First of all, I find everything to do with education -- including college admissions -- really fascinating. Although I am far from organized in much of my daily life, I kept really good and thorough records of both of my kids' homeschooling careers, meaning I had plenty of material to work with. Basic, non-fiction writing comes easily to me, and I love to talk about my kids. I'm enjoy research, and desktop publishing has been something of a hobby of mine on and off over the years. 

 

I suppose, in a way, my peculiar assortment of skills and interests made me pretty well suited to the whole guidance counselor gig.

 

Oh, the writing and the record keeping was not the issue for me. I am naturally organized, so creating the necessary documents was the fun and easy part.

 

Helping DD whittle down the list of schools with the top programs in her field to a manageable 12, while balancing several schools with rejection rates of 90+% with others, still good ones, with more realistic acceptance rates, was one challenge. It is an optimization problem with too many parameters and uncertainties to have a unique solution.

Dealing with the brand new version of a poorly executed huge piece of software (aka Common App) in the days and weeks immediately after its release was the other. I am reasonably computer savvy, can program; and DH builds high performance cluster computers from parts and can administer networks and write parallel code... so it's not as if we are computer illiterates, yet none of this helped when confronted with this massive, poorly documented  system.

 

I am SO glad I don't have a senior this year.

[Luckymama]

On top of

--dd considering graduating a year early

--dd applying for a very competitive summer program (with common-ap-like parts for me. Too soon!!!)

--trying to find strong future schools for someone already studying an unusual language who has a very particular major in mind

--doing the good ol' merit scholarship search,

 

The Boy is having a difficult time on the opposite coast. He's lonely. The job is challenging but good. It's all the other stuff,

[shage]

It's a beast. JMO. The writing part is easy for me because I write psych report for a living and have cranked out letters of rec in academic settings for years. It's advising a student who has a completely different skill set and out look on life. And giving serious thought to very real financial parameters. And balancing the gig with homeschooling the youngers and working. Oy.

[regentrude]

 And balancing the gig with homeschooling the youngers and working. Oy.

Oh yes, that too. My DS definitely got less attention the semester when we had to focus on DD's college applications. And then work, yep.

[shage]

Somewhat related. I am seriously thinking of offering a seminar on how to write a letter of recommendation to our local homeschooling community. Because some of the people who seem in the best position to write letters seem stressed about it. It's not something they do very often and I wonder how helpful their efforts are? As in, talking about how hard working and kind a kid is may be nice, but it's not the information critical to a highly selective school.

[MysteryJen]

Being a guidance counselor completely took me by surprise. It is hard work. And it made me even more bitter at the lazy man who was my assigned counselor in high school. He asked me three times how to spell my last name. A common Hispanic name. With hundreds in the phone book.

[Jenny in Florida]

Oh, the writing and the record keeping was not the issue for me. I am naturally organized, so creating the necessary documents was the fun and easy part.

 

Helping DD whittle down the list of schools with the top programs in her field to a manageable 12, while balancing several schools with rejection rates of 90+% with others, still good ones, with more realistic acceptance rates, was one challenge. It is an optimization problem with too many parameters and uncertainties to have a unique solution.

Dealing with the brand new version of a poorly executed huge piece of software (aka Common App) in the days and weeks immediately after its release was the other. I am reasonably computer savvy, can program; and DH builds high performance cluster computers from parts and can administer networks and write parallel code... so it's not as if we are computer illiterates, yet none of this helped when confronted with this massive, poorly documented  system.

 

I am SO glad I don't have a senior this year.

 

I hear you on the process of choosing potential colleges, although, again, I actually found that really interesting and exciting to be a part of. So, that probably made it seem less heinous for me.

 

And my son didn't really have any issues with the Common App. Maybe we were just lucky, but it seemed pretty straightforward from both the student and counselor perspectives.

[regentrude]

I hear you on the process of choosing potential colleges, although, again, I actually found that really interesting and exciting to be a part of. So, that probably made it seem less heinous for me.

 

Honestly: I did not find it exciting, but mainly depressing to know that a perfectly qualified applicant with outstanding transcript and test scores stands an 8% or smaller chance to be admitted and that the selection process is completely out of your hands.

 

 

 

And my son didn't really have any issues with the Common App. Maybe we were just lucky, but it seemed pretty straightforward from both the student and counselor perspectives.

 

For the first few days, the CA kept crashing altogether. And then stuff did not work.. which for an October application deadline really was an issue.

[Jenny in Florida]

Honestly: I did not find it exciting, but mainly depressing to know that a perfectly qualified applicant with outstanding transcript and test scores stands an 8% or smaller chance to be admitted and that the selection process is completely out of your hands.

 

Well, I did warn you that I'm weird. My son didn't apply to any schools that were as selective as that, of course, but I also counseled him from the beginning to take nothing for granted, that good schools receive applications from more students than they can possibly admit and that, therefore, he had to understand that not getting into any specific school wasn't his fault and wasn't the end of the world.  While it was certainly stressful at times, I pretty much had confidence that, by casting a wide net and keeping an open mind, he would land in the right place. And, a couple of years later, it still seems like he did.

 

For the first few days, the CA kept crashing altogether. And then stuff did not work.. which for an October application deadline really was an issue.

 

As I said, we must have been lucky. My son started submitting applications in early November, and I don't recall any major glitches in the process.

 

I don't know: I think part of it is that I'm a future-oriented person. I like planning and plotting and working on projects that have a forward-looking element. I also find education endlessly fascinating. So, the whole process was just a good fit for my interests and skills, I guess.

 

I'm actually a little nostalgic. 

 

But, yeah, this isn't the only way in which I'm a weirdo.

[swimmermom3]

I'm not sure that my kids would be getting better service from a charter or virtual school.  The formatting of the documents has been relatively easy.  It's figuring out exactly what to say that has been a challenge to me.

 

Last night, Sailor Dude and dh attended an informational session for what ds thinks is his top choice for schools.  The assistant admissions director stated that if the kids had a class that they tanked, it could affect their chances for getting into the school.

 

Under our educational philosophy, I have a bullet point for fostering academic risk-taking for the sake for growth. In light of the above comment, I really need to elaborate on this in a succinct fashion and it has taken me forever to do so.

 

A while back there was a discussion on one of the AP community boards that I am on concerning the growing trend of students dropping the AP courses if their first test was anything less than an "A;" they felt they could not justify the risk to their GPA.

 

This irks me to no end.  If the idea is to pursue academically challenging courses, then it follows that the student is not always going to get "A's," right?

 

I have tried to make every word count on all of this paperwork and I am beat and crabby.

 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Last night, Sailor Dude and dh attended an informational session for what ds thinks is his top choice for schools. The assistant admissions director stated that if the kids had a class that they tanked, it could affect their chances for getting into the school.

 

Under our educational philosophy, I have a bullet point for fostering academic risk-taking for the sake for growth. In light of the above comment, I really need to elaborate on this in a succinct fashion and it has taken me forever to do so.

 

A while back there was a discussion on one of the AP community boards that I am on concerning the growing trend of students dropping the AP courses if their first test was anything less than an "A;" they felt they could not justify the risk to their GPA.

 

This irks me to no end. If the idea is to pursue academically challenging courses, then it follows that the student is not always going to get "A's," right?

 

I have tried to make every word count on all of this paperwork and I am beat and crabby.

 

One of the things I've found is that this isn't the moment for being subtle or coy. I love your phrase about academic risk taking. I may end up borrowing it. Ds is taking Calculus I. The next course Calculus II evidently has quite a reputation at his CC.

[creekland]

I enjoyed researching the colleges, etc.  I'm never a big paperwork fan.  I'm glad to follow as a lurker to increase my knowledge to offer others, but I'm also glad all of mine are in already.

 

Of course, middle son signed up for the MCAT this week... but "I" don't need to do anything in this process except pay the bills  :svengo: and be a cheerleader - perhaps even offer hugs when/if they're needed.  The local winery we support might see an increase in profit too.

 

On the grade side - I'm super mindful of that for this stint where I'm doing grades in school.  It's a fine line to be both challenging and expect "full" answers, but not mess up the GPA of those who want to aim high.  Many kids want super clear step by step directions that require no thought - just memorization.  I want them to think, and enjoy receiving "outside the box" correct answers.  In homeschooling if they guessed incorrectly with their thinking we could return and shore up that foundation.  In ps we need to move on.

 

[G5052]

Yes, I learned a few things about myself and my oldest.

 

A year ago it was all fog with no idea of a major and school. Finances were a significant concern too.

 

And here we are. He has a major and a school. He just got 100% on a harrowing midterm in the class that is the first one in his major. And the finances are fine.

 

Just in time for the next one...

[TheApprentice]

When I started homeschooling, I thought trying to find the "right" curriculum was difficult. Nope. This counselor role has got that beat. When his 2 early action applications were sent in, it felt like the sky had opened up and lifted this huge bolder off my back. Good grief.

[Nan in Mass]

... It is an optimization problem with too many parameters and uncertainties to have a unique solution.

...

Exactly. This was exactly our problem. For my children, only one university was a good fit. Optimizing their chances was tricky. Admissions people were fairly helpful about this but could only go so far. The rest of the uni,s were far below in suitability but scholarships from them mattered. For oldest, it was one or nothing. The stress was enormous.

 

I kept good records, so the information itself wasn,t a problem. We already had a written goal for homeschooling and narrative assessments for everything, as well as lists of everything done or read, but there was so much of it. Fairly representing my nonstandard students in little boxes meant for a very different sort of education was hard.

 

And then there was the moment when youngest realized that his chances depended on my writing ability...

 

Nan

[swimmermom3]

One of the things I've found is that this isn't the moment for being subtle or coy. I love your phrase about academic risk taking. I may end up borrowing it. Ds is taking Calculus I. The next course Calculus II evidently has quite a reputation at his CC.

 

So here is the deal. Ds needed a biology course with labs. I had taught chemistry at home the previous year and there was no way I was doing another science course right after that.

 

His choices at the high school were regular Biology and AP Biology. His older siblings had taken the regular Biology class, so I knew that Sailor Dude would sleep through the class, do half the homework, and get an "A."  The grade would look good, but it would be a waste of time from an academic standpoint.

 

That AP Biology class chewed him up and spit him out and he loved it, the sick boy.  He loved the subject matter and respects the heck out of the older, dry-humored AP teacher whose student reviews say that his tests are harder than the AP exam. Ds was with fellow swimmers so there was probably a competitive component involved.  The bottom line is that he learned more from that class in preparation for success in college than he ever would have learned in the regular bio class.

 

He also got his first "C"  the first semester. He brought it up to a "B" the second semester, but that effort resulted in his second "C" in another AP class.  His GPA took a serious hit and yet, I am not sure that his academics did.

 

I also have to be honest and admit that I was fully encouraging him to drop the class initially. In this case, I am glad he is stubborn.

 

The whole scenario got me thinking about the idea that education is meant to broaden our perspective and our skill set and to do so, we often have to be intellectually uncomfortable, stretched.

 

If we encourage our students to only do what is best for our GPA, we are training a generation of medical researchers, business managers, or educators to only do what is safe, to avoid risk or innovation.

 

I'll get off my soapbox. You know all this and I hope your ds does take Calculus II if that's what he wants, and that he enjoys it and grows from the experience.  Isn't growth the point of what we do?

 

Can you tell that I am still irked by that admission guy's comment?

 

One of the other schools ds has interviewed with totally get the academic risk-taking. They are far less concerned with GPAs and much more concerned with the actual classes the student took.

[swimmermom3]

Exactly. This was exactly our problem. For my children, only one university was a good fit. Optimizing their chances was tricky. Admissions people were fairly helpful about this but could only go so far. The rest of the uni,s were far below in suitability but scholarships from them mattered. For oldest, it was one or nothing. The stress was enormous.

 

I kept good records, so the information itself wasn,t a problem. We already had a written goal for homeschooling and narrative assessments for everything, as well as lists of everything done or read, but there was so much of it. Fairly representing my nonstandard students in little boxes meant for a very different sort of education was hard.

 

And then there was the moment when youngest realized that his chances depended on my writing ability...

 

Nan

 

:svengo: :scared: :willy_nilly: It's only 7:45 am here. It's too early to drink...too early...too early...aaaaahhhhhhh!

 

[Sk8ermaiden]

In my high school (of 4,000) the guidance counselors didn't do ANY of that stuff. At all. They would supply your transcript. You asked teachers who liked you for recommendations. That was it. Everything else was on the parents and students - that is absolutely the norm here. Sooo...public school doesn't automatically mean that's taken care of. DD will likely go to public or private high school, but I know it will be on me to handle all aspects of her college selection and admissions.   :blush:

[regentrude]

In my high school (of 4,000) the guidance counselors didn't do ANY of that stuff. At all. They would supply your transcript. You asked teachers who liked you for recommendations. That was it. Everything else was on the parents and students - that is absolutely the norm here. Sooo...public school doesn't automatically mean that's taken care of. DD will likely go to public or private high school, but I know it will be on me to handle all aspects of her college selection and admissions.  

 

That would be impossible for any college that uses the Common Application because a school representative must fill out the entire school report, not just send a transcript. You don't get to do that as a parent.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

That would be impossible for any college that uses the Common Application because a school representative must fill out the entire school report, not just send a transcript. You don't get to do that as a parent.

For a public school a school profile would change very little from year to year. They could pretty much have a template in which they adjust demographic and test score percentages. I don't think many large schools are trying to craft an explanation of their educational philosophy. (Nor do most students have to explain why they are public schooled and what that looks like.)

 

I don't spend much time feeling out of step. The college app process reminds me that my kid is part of the 1-2 % who are homeschooled and the 1-2% military. For us, both feel normal at this point. I struggle to explain what it looks like to others.

[Tsuga]

Last night, Sailor Dude and dh attended an informational session for what ds thinks is his top choice for schools. The assistant admissions director stated that if the kids had a class that they tanked, it could affect their chances for getting into the school.

 

Under our educational philosophy, I have a bullet point for fostering academic risk-taking for the sake for growth. In light of the above comment, I really need to elaborate on this in a succinct fashion and it has taken me forever to do so.

 

A while back there was a discussion on one of the AP community boards that I am on concerning the growing trend of students dropping the AP courses if their first test was anything less than an "A;" they felt they could not justify the risk to their GPA.

 

This irks me to no end. If the idea is to pursue academically challenging courses, then it follows that the student is not always going to get "A's," right?

 

I have tried to make every word count on all of this paperwork and I am beat and crabby.

 

Grade inflation sucks!

[Sk8ermaiden]

Wow! Yeah, I think I skipped out just ahead of the common app. I have a friend who is a high school guidance counselor, I need to ask her about this. 

 

But I was mostly referring to these parts. They're outside the scope of guidance counselors here:

 

 

 

Helping DD whittle down the list of schools with the top programs in her field to a manageable 12, while balancing several schools with rejection rates of 90+% with others, still good ones, with more realistic acceptance rates, was one challenge. It is an optimization problem with too many parameters and uncertainties to have a unique solution.

 

 

--dd considering graduating a year early
--dd applying for a very competitive summer program (with common-ap-like parts for me. Too soon!!!)
--trying to find strong future schools for someone already studying an unusual language who has a very particular major in mind
--doing the good ol' merit scholarship search,

 

 

It's advising a student who has a completely different skill set and out look on life. And giving serious thought to very real financial parameters.  

[regentrude]

 

But I was mostly referring to these parts. They're outside the scope of guidance counselors here:

 

I completely agree - it is simply not feasible for a school guidance counselor to spend this much energy and time into helping one student research the options for her particular situation, especially with very specific circumstances like early graduation, prospective double major, highly selective schools balanced with solid match schools. The counselor who is responsible for a large number of students cannot be expected to do this and be knowledgeable about all the particular details that pertain to the special circumstances.

[shawthorne44]

In my high school (of 4,000) the guidance counselors didn't do ANY of that stuff. At all. They would supply your transcript. You asked teachers who liked you for recommendations. That was it. Everything else was on the parents and students - that is absolutely the norm here. Sooo...public school doesn't automatically mean that's taken care of. DD will likely go to public or private high school, but I know it will be on me to handle all aspects of her college selection and admissions.   :blush:

 

That was my experience as well.  I don't think I ever even met the guidance counselor.  For the transcripts, you filled out a form in the office.  Any letters of recommendation from him/her would have been a form letter that basically said, "He/she must have been a decent kid because I don't know who he/she is".   If there was any advising, the parents were expected to do it.  The area was middle to upper middle class and it was rare for only one parent to have a college degree.  

[shage]

Wow! Yeah, I think I skipped out just ahead of the common app. I have a friend who is a high school guidance counselor, I need to ask her about this. 

 

But I was mostly referring to these parts. They're outside the scope of guidance counselors here:

 

 

Guidance counselors at our large public school do all of the listed, but in group settings not 1:1.  (I get the emails because we used to have an exchange student there).  If a student is not sure what career to pursue--there are career interest inventories and the like offered during lunch times.  There are times for students to bring in college choices and counselors will review and make suggestions.  There are seminars for financial aid options.  

 

So no, definitely they are not giving the 1:1 attention but they are expected to provide a level of expertise through the process.  Part of the certification/continuing education of the job would also mean they maintain some level of contact with local admission officers and have their ear to the ground with changes such as common application.

 

I am providing the 1:1 attention but no way would I pretend to have their level of expertise of how this works.

 

 

[shage]

I dated the twin brother of today's high school guidance counselor at my alma mater. Let's just say, having grown up with him and dated his twin, I'm very concerned for the kids in that high school today. (LOL)

 

My husband attended a small rural school in the Ozarks.  The counselor was also the math, shop, and driver's ed teacher.  His kids attended the school also.  Years later he tried to sell my husband and I an insurance policy and we discovered he was still bitter that my husband was valedictorian instead of his son.  This made me giggle.  Which is, apparently, the exact wrong response when you are trying to cut a deal on insurance.

[TeaTotaler]

Yep I totally agree.  I remember all those comments when my kids were little about homeschooling and what was I going todo for high school. Surely I wasn't planning to homeschool high school.  Homeschooling (the education part) high school is a piece of cake.  But no one ever warned me how hard this guidance counselor stuff is.  Now I now why several of my friends put their SENIORS in a virtual school.  All of this suddenly wasn't their problem anymore.

 

This.  Yes, I have one friend in the area who also homeschooled high school.  We've been propping each other up.  Fortunately for her she didn't have to deal with the Common App.  I am struggling to get through the CA in the midst of some major chaos in our family.  So thankful for these boards.

[dhudson]

I found that the guidance counselor portion took me 15-20 hours a week of work for 2-3 months for all the college transcripts and intense scholarship application. I am pretty organized and kept good records but, I was unprepared for the level of work.

 

I have several years before my twins hit their senior year and I am not looking forward to it.

[MomOfABunch]

:svengo: :scared: :willy_nilly: It's only 7:45 am here. It's too early to drink...too early...too early...aaaaahhhhhhh!

 

Nah, it's always 5 PM somewhere!

[g1234]

Just stumbled on this thread. So I'm not the only one? What a relief. Mine's only in 10th, but I feel oppressed by the idea that all her future happiness is in my clueless hands. I literally wake up at night fretting. She is studious, lovely, and gracious, loves homeschooling, and is learning a lot. Still I fantasize all the time about putting her in school and unloading the burden. I won't do it, but I had no idea how hard this would be for me, wondering how well or poorly I am leading her. It makes it worse that she trusts me and looks to me for guidance. It doesn't really make it worse, but in ways...

[Jeeves]

Just stumbled on this thread. So I'm not the only one? What a relief. Mine's only in 10th, but I feel oppressed by the idea that all her future happiness is in my clueless hands. I literally wake up at night fretting. She is studious, lovely, and gracious, loves homeschooling, and is learning a lot. Still I fantasize all the time about putting her in school and unloading the burden. I won't do it, but I had no idea how hard this would be for me, wondering how well or poorly I am leading her. It makes it worse that she trusts me and looks to me for guidance. Not really, but in ways...

 

I agree!  At least about the oppressed part!  I have mild panic attacks about it and he's only in 9th.  I'm actually seriously considering holding him back one year because he's very young for his grade and it would give me one more year to figure this stuff out!

[angela in ohio]

Mine told me that, although I had the highest SAT and PSAT scores anyone in my high school had ever gotten, that majoring in mathematics might be too hard for me. He also told me that he couldn't help with scholarship applications.

 

AFAIK he's still at that high school, 20 years older and more bitter.

 

So, there's your baseline. You'll do great.

 

This. I think it helps that we are involved with the local public school a little. I am helping some of dd's friends with their Common Apps, etc. They get no help; the guidance counselors are busy handling class scheduling, kids with emotional issues, etc. They are VERY nice, but they are also both brand new this year. They don't know any of these seniors. The plan is to triage - kids who are going to the closest state school, kids who are going to the community college, and kids who need to fill out job applications. Outliers who are applying to flagship state school or other schools are kind of on their own. Some of the advice I have heard they have given to students is outdated (and they are young!) or "old wives tale" laden. 

 

My guidance counselor was awesome. She was a tiny red-headed Southern woman. She taught me the protocol I needed to know to attend scholarship luncheons and interviews, she went with my mom and me to events, and she was genuinely invested in my success. I wish my kids had someone like that, and she would be better than me. But that's not the other option; the current guidance counselors are, and I can do better than that. That helps me feel better. Yes, the nice private schools north of here have guidance counselors worth their weight in gold (and many of them), but we can't afford those anyway. :D 

 

Like someone else said, the overwhelming amount to me is how MUCH time it takes.