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The Birds and the Bees Discussion


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When did you do it and how?

 

My daughter is beginning to ask questions. Neither my husband or I were ever given "the talk" and learned througha mix of peers, science classes, and television/movies.

 

I'm covering basic human biology this year with my 4th grade daughter and I'm hoping to sneak it in when we discuss the reproductive system.

 

When I was pregnant with my son, she was enthralled by the process of the baby's development, but the question of how the baby formed never came up (thankfully). Until now...my current pregnancy. I dodged it, but I know I can't and shouldn't do it forever. I'd rather her learn from us than her friends.

 

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We started discussions young.  When my daughter was about five or so, I read aloud the book

 

Where Did I Come From? by Peter Mayle.

 

Other books discussed over time included

 

The Care and Keeping of You by Valorie Schaefer and Norm Bendell  (I see this now has younger and older versions)

 

The Period Book: Everything You Don't Want to Ask (But Need to Know) by Karen Gravelle

 

 

and

 

It's Perfectly Normal: Changing Bodies, Growing Up, Sex, and Sexual Health  by Robie H. Harris and Michael Emberley

 

I also was on hand to answer questions that arose over time (generally at awkward times and places!)

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

 

 

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Ah, I missed the how... :)

 

For me, it's been 100x easier to talk to Pink.  I'm not trying to be old fashioned or anything, but there's something very comfortable about talking to her because she's a girl.  I can understand a girl's brain, I know what to expect from her body (not that she's having anything going on there yet!  Not for a few years!)... and overall I'm just more comfortable with the whole thing.  

Idk.  Sexism of its own kind, I guess. :P  :lol: :lol:

 

So with her, I think I've done the best.  It's not like she knows a lot, but she knows about body parts of both genders and she knows the basics of periods.  She has a very basic idea of where babies come from.  She knows all the usual stuff that all kids know - private parts, etc.  I've included uncomfortable touch, as I don't want her to ever feel like she can't say something to someone if they're touching, say, her back or something (so not something typically considered 'private') - if a person makes her feel uncomfortable, she doesn't have to accept them touching her, ever.  

It's not like I've talked to her a ton about everything under the sun, but with her, it's just been easy.  

 

With the boys, it hasn't flowed quite as easily.  I've had to 'force' it a little bit more.  With Link, that meant giving him the Science Encyclopedia we used in 3rd-4th grade, opening to the pages on puberty (one day) and reproduction (the next day), having him read them, and then talking about it.  I will say that it was worse in theory than in reality.  He said he hopes he has moved out of the house before Pink gets her period lol.  :lol:  He knows he can ask DH and I anything.  I did direct 'guy specific' (puberty, etc) questions to DH, since I'm not a guy so I've not experienced that lol.  

Astro doesn't care at all.  He still forgets Pink doesn't have a p3ni$.  :lol:  

 

and we watch lots of documentaries lol...

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It sounds like you're uncomfortable with the idea of talking about sexuality with your children. I strongly recommend Deborah Roffman's books, either Talk to Me First: Everything You Need to Know to Become Your Kids' "Go-To" Person About Sex or Sex and Sensibility: The Thinking Parent's Guide to Talking Sense about Sex.

 

Try your best not to dodge the questions. When you do that, you are sending messages that talking about sex is taboo. And remember that when a child is asking about where babies come from, you don't want to data dump an entire sex education class on them at once. Just answer the question in the simplest way --

 

"Where do babies come from?" -- they grow inside their mother's body in a special place called a womb

 

"How does the baby get inside the mother?" -- the baby begins as a tiny egg and grows bigger and bigger inside the mother

 

Often a child will just ask one question and drop the subject for awhile. Then a few days or weeks later they'll come back with another question. Eventually the questions will probably come to where you'll talk about sexual intercourse. Or if the child doesn't go there, you'll bring it up yourself. But by then you will have established an environment where talking about this stuff is good, and mom is calm and relaxed and happy to share information.

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It sounds like you're uncomfortable with the idea of talking about sexuality with your children. I strongly recommend Deborah Roffman's books, either Talk to Me First: Everything You Need to Know to Become Your Kids' "Go-To" Person About Sex or Sex and Sensibility: The Thinking Parent's Guide to Talking Sense about Sex.

 

Try your best not to dodge the questions. When you do that, you are sending messages that talking about sex is taboo. And remember that when a child is asking about where babies come from, you don't want to data dump an entire sex education class on them at once. Just answer the question in the simplest way --

 

"Where do babies come from?" -- they grow inside their mother's body in a special place called a womb

 

"How does the baby get inside the mother?" -- the baby begins as a tiny egg and grows bigger and bigger inside the mother

 

Often a child will just ask one question and drop the subject for awhile. Then a few days or weeks later they'll come back with another question. Eventually the questions will probably come to where you'll talk about sexual intercourse. Or if the child doesn't go there, you'll bring it up yourself. But by then you will have established an environment where talking about this stuff is good, and mom is calm and relaxed and happy to share information.

 

I don't have those books, but this is how it did turn out here with one child particularly. But when he asked about intercourse (in a way that felt so out of the blue), I wished I had a book to show him while we talked. I explained as naturally, and well, as I could. Then I purchased some books. My plan was to use them whether asked again or not, but I haven't found one that's enough information without being too much information for him.  I liked a lot about the It's Perfectly Normal linked in this thread, but it was too much information (down to types of intercourse and birth control) for my pre-teen. Their younger book wasn't quite enough for him. I wish I could merge parts of each. The other books I found were also not enough or not quite as positive as I would like to be.

 

I think some kids are more willing to ask questions. Others you'll need to take the initiative. And I agree with trying to be the first source of information, which means you'll need to hit it relatively young depending on her contacts and activities. I was surprised how much kids talk about this stuff at ages younger than I remembered growing up.

 

 

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We haven't had A Talk. We've had an ongoing discussion. Sometimes that's meant tossing a book or a youtube video towards the kids and quietly leaving (they don't always want to talk about these things with us!), sometimes that's meant answering questions as they're asked (questions ranging from "how does the baby get out?" to "why aren't you supposed to stick your middle finger up? wait, that's what the f word means!?" to "what does hentai mean and should I click this link?"), sometimes that's meant corralling a kid and talking to them about something whether they really wanted to or not ("...and this is why, when you have a girlfriend or a boyfriend, if they start pressuring you to do something you don't like, you should dump them" or "just so you know, even the types of sex that can't get you pregnant can get you sick, so, you know, it's never to early to know the word condom" or "I just heard the most ridiculous thing on the bus, and I want to make sure you don't make this same mistake when you're that age....")

 

You have a lot of book recommendations there :) Any one of them should be fine, but you may end up having to get more than one. Your kid might find this one too babyish or that one too boring, even though the content really ought to be about the same from book to book.

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My general rule is to answer the question that's asked :)

 

So when the bigger boys were 3/4 and I was pregnant, they asked how the baby got out. So we talked about how I had a uterus, and a birth canal, and much to their surprise (? Even though they had seen me nude) a vagina and not a penis. They were satisfied with that.

 

Then, eventually, they asked...well I can't remember how they phrased the question, but basically how does a baby develop? I talked about eggs, and fertilization, and basic month to month development of a fetus. They were satisfied.

 

It wasn't until this summer, at 6/7, they finally came around to...but how is the egg fertilized? By the father. Which may have been enough for the 7yo but his brother wanted to know precisely how. Hence "the talk."

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Well, I googled this word, but I (age 50+) was afraid to click any links, so, could someone give a brief explanation of what this means, keeping it safe for this forum? Thanks!

 

From Wikipedia:

"In Japanese, the term describes any type of perverse or bizarre sexual desire or act; it does not represent a genre of work. Internationally, hentai is a catch-all term to describe a genre of anime and manga pornography."

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Sorry so long.

Talk early and talk often.  It is better to have a hundred little talks as your children grow up than ONE BIG TALK.

1) Start with physiology. 
Body parts.  For both men and women.  Use the scientific names for everything.  And treat it with as much awe (or rather, LACK of awe) as you would an elbow or hip or nose.  It's a nose. It's an ovary.  It's a neck.  Get over it.  Big deal.

***It is okay to say that this is private information, not to be shared with her friends at this time.  However, she can always talk about these things with her dad or me.  I started teaching dd her physiology when she was 5, and not all parents of 5yos (especially in the homeschooling/religious community) want their 5yos to know this information.  Giving dd this rule let her know when it was appropriate to talk about this, and when it was not.  By the time she is a teen, I hope that she is able to use good judgment of when and how to help friends who don't have good sex ed at home.  I know that I held at least two sex crash courses for groups of peers in my dorm room in college.

2) Again and again and again talk about how your children can come to you about ANYTHING.  And then LIVE it.  I often tell my children that
--it my job (or the adults' job) to help you
--thank you for telling me so that I can help you.
--*****I hope that you always feel that you can come to me (or your dad) if you have a problem.  Whatever it is, it is MY job to handle it well and not freak out too much or be judgmental.  It is my job to help you. *****

Why do I have this philosophy?  The things my children come to me about now are minor.  Their current ages are 4 and 8.  However, their issues when they are ages 12-20 are much more somber.  Bullying, premarital sex, pregnancy, rape, drugs & alcohol, riding in a car with someone who has been drinking, proper use of phones/cell phones, college choices, job choices, dating choices, money choices.

I want to be a part of those conversations, and it is often easier to help earlier rather than later in the problem, but I need to EARN my children's trust NOW by handling well whatever they bring to me.  If sex is taboo, they will not come to you with those questions.  I never did with my mom.  We currently try to live in a household where NO  question or topic is taboo.

Example: Many parents don't want their teen daughters to have an abortion.  Good for you.  But:
If abortion is on the table, it is easier earlier than later.
If abortion is not on the table, you want your daughter to be put on prenatal vitamins asap so your grandchild will be born as healthy as possible.  This happens by having your daughter know she can come to you as soon as she knows she is in trouble.

3) Wisdom or Ignorance: Condoms and other forms of birth control.  My kids may make unwise decisions about sex.  At a certain level, I cannot do anything about that.  However, I CAN do something about them making ignorant decisions about sex.  By age 13, I plan that we will discuss all the options of birth control, and where/how to obtain them.

Find a reputable medical source for the information, like WebMD.   If the local Planned Parenthood Clinic will let me, I will take her there to have THEM teach her about the options and how they work.  Be wary of Crisis Pregnancy Centers; they are not well known for the accuracy of their information.  Their volunteers are not usually medical professionals, and if they are, they do not usually work in the specialized field of women's health.  Your child will resent not knowing the most accurate information.

4) Discuss how
--teens who wait to have sex usually have fewer partners over a lifetime

 

--teens who wait to have sex usually have fewer STDs over a lifetime

 

--IF you plan to have sex, plan for multiple forms of birth control: condoms + the pill + the rhythm method

 

--do you have a plan for if the birth control fails?  adoption?  abortion?  keep it?  If you're not ready to have a plan, you're not ready to have sex.

 

--if I had a son, I would teach that "it is the woman's decision."  You cannot force her to carry a child to full term against her will.  That is immoral.  You cannot force her to have an abortion.  That is immoral.  The woman chooses.  Therefore be wise in your sexual choices, son.

 

--Premarital sex hurts children.*  When you have a child out of wedlock,  the child is not a planned child with two parents who are committed to each other and to the child.  The child is more likely to grow up in poverty, with instability in their parent's relationship (fighting, divorced, separated, one parent disappears). 

 

--What is rape?  What to do if you (or a friend) are raped?  (Twice over, I wish I had known this, for myself and for a friend when I got a call at 4a.m.)  Answer: Do not wash or shower.   Do not douche.  Go directly to the Emergency Room.  Do not pass go.

 

--How  teens get in trouble with sex and their cell phones.  Just watch the news.  There are plenty of examples there.

 

--What to do if you see someone harming someone sexually.  Answer:  NOT what the Catholic Church or Penn State did. 


--teachers molesting children.  Make it clear that this is VERY rare, but it does happen.  Again, there are plenty of cases in the news.

 

--And make them watch a month's worth of Judge Judy and the People's Court while discussing "What is a healthy relationship?" and "How to not buy a car for your bum boyfriend."

*Please note that both of my children were born out of wedlock, when I was ages 36 and 40 respectively.   Their dad and I are still together and provide a home of love and laughter for our children.  We're not rich, but we're not homeless or on food stamps either.  Yeah, we need to get married sooner or later.  Of course, and unplanned pregnancy at age 36 is not the same as an unplanned pregnancy at 16.

5) Make it clear that anything discussed can be re-discussed and re-visited at any time.  You would rather that they ask than that they don't ask.

6) If your husband is on board, it is okay for him to answer questions on this topic, too. 
There are some questions only a man can answer about male experiences.  This also gives your daughter practice in talking to the opposite sex about these subjects and not be embarrassed or beat around the bush. Someday she will have to discuss them with a boyfriend or husband.


 

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I approached this - well, the changes when groing up - as a "I just wanted to let you know ahead of time" type of approach. You know that women can have babies, but girls can't? Well, when you get a bit older, your body is going to start the process of changing from a girl to a woman. This will take a few years, and these are the things that will happen. (With my son it was boy, man, father, etc.). It went well... and generally within a few days they want to know what changes the opposite sex will have... then a few more days more details. Oh, I also make sure they know that mom and dad are to whom to ask any questions, and that tv's and movies aren't a great source of info about love and any of this.

 

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It depends on your kids and your circumstances.  Our kids were home and pretty much with me all the time, so we didn't feel an urgent need to explain everything early.  However, if they asked questions, we always told them.  Maybe not every detail, because probably they weren't really looking for the details at a young age.  But, we were always very open and were happy to talk about anything they asked.  I think between the ages of 10 and 12, we really got down to talking about most topics, either generally or in detail.  We were more apt to discuss the detailed things when it was simply positive things about the human body and its natural changes.  We were slower in discussing details when it came to discussing scary things like sexual abuse, etc.  (We were ONLY slower because we really were with them all the time, otherwise we definitely would have discussed this earlier.)  My husband and I always discussed everything together with our children.  We didn't want them growing up thinking they could only discuss certain things with only Mom, or certain things with only Dad. 

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I recommend It's So Amazing (which can be read before It's Perfectly Normal) for kids--our copy lives in DS's room so he can read more of it when he wants, since we only covered the sections that answered his questions--and Everything you NEVER wanted your kids to know about SEX (but were afraid they'd ask) for parents.

 

DS is a Person of Many Questions, so I haven't needed to bring things up so far, but I'm a believer in "better early than late" when it comes to health topics, and we will probably get It's Perfectly Normal for 4th or 5th grade. (Boys in general are undereducated on reproduction, and that's borne out in the statistics in the parent book I named--evidently a third of mothers and a third of fathers talk to their sons about sex, meaning at least a third of boys are not getting information at home.)

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My oldest started asking waaaay too many questions when I was pregnant with my youngest--and he was just turning three.  I answered as simply but honestly as I could.  Over the years it's come up a few more times, and this year he's been super interested in it.  I went into pretty great detail with him on a few occasions, but he still had questions, so I finally went to the library.  A few people referenced the book It's Perfectly Normal up-thread.  That same series has It's So Amazing for ages 8+ and It's Not the Stork for ages 4+.  I checked out both of the lower-level books, gave Stork to him to read on its own (more pictures!) and went through parts of Amazing with him because it had more detail but was way textier.  He looked through the books and asked questions for several days and now seems satisfied.

 

Prior to this, I have talked numerous times about touch and how our bodies are wired to sense danger.  I've emphasized that if the kids don't feel right about something--even if they don't know why--they should trust their intuition and say no or leave.  And, like others have said, I've tried to emphazise that they can come to me with anything at all, even if someone tells them it's a secret or if they're afraid I will be angry.

 

I'm not sure what detail I'll go into with my other kids yet, or how I'll broach the topic if they don't ask as many questions as my oldest.  My middle has a super vague idea of how babies are made and a more concrete idea of periods (partly because my oldest started asking about the feminine product dispensers in restrooms--awkward convo to have in a public restroom)...  I guess I'll see.

 

I do have to say, though--when I was teaching, I was told of a fourth grader that was pregnant at another school.  That experience totally changed my mental timeline for talking to my kids.  I didn't know the specifics of sex and periods until the end of 5th grade when school gave its presentation!  I'd rather have them find out the details from me well before they get any input from others.

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I agree with the "answer the question" approach. I always thought that was what we would do. We talk about bodies and use the right terms and I answered questions openly when asked. 

 

But I'd add that some kids won't ask and so you have to go ahead and tell them. My oldest never asked about how the baby got in my stomach when I was pregnant. He's a pretty curious, science oriented guy who asked lots of other questions. But not about that. We read lots of science books that talked about mating and he asked what it meant and I explained that it meant the animals were getting together to have babies. No other questions. I wasn't trying to hide things but I also figured that he would ask more when he was ready. But he never asked more. 

 

So then when he was about 9 we decided to have "the talk" with him. I just felt like he was getting to the age where other kids might know about sex and where he needed to know all the details and I wanted to be the one to tell him. We got a couple of books. My husband wanted to talk to him first so he introduced the topic. Then I sat down with him and told him that just because Daddy had been the one to talk to him and a guy that didn't mean that he couldn't also talk to me if he had questions. A bit later I talked to him about puberty and also the specifics of girls puberty and periods. 

 

My second son also hasn't asked any questions and is almost 9 so we'll probably have a similar talk with him fairly soon. I'm not sure there is a magic age, I just felt strongly that I wanted to be the one to first tell them and I wanted it to be natural and not something that was a big scary thing. The schools around here do it in 4th and 5th grades so I wanted our kids to hear about the same time at the latest. 

 

A tip we used from friends with older kids was to have the initial talk in the car or on a walk or doing something else. That way the kid doesn't have to feel like it's a big deal or that they have to look at you if they are embarrassed. My husband had the initial talk with our oldest on the way to a camping trip. I think he started with saying something like "I'm glad we have this time alone because I've been wanting to talk to you about something that I think you are old enough to know about..." I talked to him about puberty on the way to camp when we were alone in the car. Although we joke that the downside might be that he learns to fear car rides. :) 

 

I'll also say that it is awkward for a lot of people. Even as a pediatrician, it was awkward for some degree to me. I think it's ok to acknowledge the awkward. The more honest you are the more honest your kids will be. Awkward doesn't have to mean judgmental. We had an issue arise with our oldest that I think has been much easier dealt with because he felt ok talking to us about something that was awkward and difficult. A few months later he and I went for a walk where I kind of checked in with him about that issue and then we also talked about some other difficult family history that I hadn't yet discussed with him. I think at one point I said something like "Well, since we're already having a difficult, not so fun discussion, let's have another one." He thought that was hilarious and I think it helped that I was honest about the fact that I found it a little hard to talk about some of these things. The message I hoped heard was that even though it was hard, it was good to have the conversation. 

 

 

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We live on a farm. With a bull. And cows.

 

And an artificial insemination tank.

 

 

They know about birth. They know about ovulation. ("Hey mom. I think that heifer is in heat") They know about the dangers of breeding a heifer too young. They also know that we are very careful about the cows that we bring in on the farm and the cow herd where our bull spends the summer. Venereal disease is an issue for farmers too.

 

So they get the biological aspect. They have a very clear understanding of "sex makes babies." Even my 7 yo gets this. It's not an awkward "birds and the bees" conversation.

 

We also, though, put a lot of stock in the discussions that have to happen starting around puberty. Stuff about body changes, boys and girls, and we have LOTS of discussions about relationships and the factors that affect them. My oldest was born when I was 18, 3 months after I was married. We talk about how that impacted my life. That choice changed my future. Things worked out well and I have no regrets, but she knows that girls who have children young have different lives than those who don't. There's also a few girls from church who have had babies in the teen group.

 

The biggest thing to do is talk talk talk.

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I haven't really sat down to have a specific talk.  Dd10 got a lot of information in bits and pieces, as she asked questions of things came up.  She's never asked me the nitty gritty questions about how the parts go together, but I know it was in some of the science books she read last year, and she's seen animal documentaries that talk about reproduction as well.  And, I am pretty sure it is a topic of discussion with her friends.  She's kind of a private person, though not shy about body talk, so I would not be surprised if she doesn't go out of her way to ask me things if she can use a book or find out another way.

 

Dd7 knows a lot more than my eldest did at the same age, I think from her sister..

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Answer the questions. It's Not the Stork or It's So Amazing (I can never remember which is the younger version)--read the younger version aloud together and answer questions. Then I gave them the older version when they were older (3rd grade?). They read it on their own. My oldest asked questions. DS did not. Care and Keeping of You series is excellent! Give them to her. Pre-read if you want, but the first one is for younger girls. You want her to ask you questions and not her peers. Try to get past your embarrassment. Tell her honestly that your parents didn't talk to you and it feels awkward to you but you don't want it to be because everyone goes through the same stuff. It gets easier! :)

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I also ALWAYS add that the desire for sex is a normal biological function. If it was not, people would not do it and humans would have gone extinct thousands of years ago. It is normal to come to an age where you are curious and have desires, our bodies are designed that way. But acting on those desires carries a lot of responsibility....I think it is important to validate and normalize urges and desires so that when they happen, your kids are well prepared and completely understand the consequences for acting on said desires. I also talk about masturbation with my tweens. I present it as normal and a very private thing that carries none of the negative consequences that sex with another human being involves. 

 

The molestation conversation happens MUCH earlier around 3 or 4. By this age, they know that THEY have to give consent to be touched anywhere on their bodies. I always ask before I touch them anywhere a bathing suit covers and have been doing that since they learned to use the toilet. They also know that ANYTIME someone touches them in anyway they feel is uncomfortable, they are to say it even if it seems they are being rude and they can tell me. Their bodies, their property. I hope this idea is so commonplace in their lives that they behave that way to everyone else. I never made them hug or kiss a relative even when it caused family fights. My father was outraged that I did not make the kid he saw once every couple years hug him when she was little. He was a stranger! 

 

I wanted to open the door to the sex conversation with both kids because I wanted them to be comfortable asking me ANYTHING. My oldest was not comfortable and shut me down at 10 when I tried to have the talk with her. She told me she was too young (she was not, I could see her body changing) so I left some books in her room with a note telling her I love her and I am always there to answer questions honestly. Now at 15, she asks questions and will talk about this stuff. Going for long car rides alone is a great way to get her to open up. I think being able to look ahead and not directly at me helps. She is very introverted. My other one is the opposite. 

 

The porn conversation needs to happen with any kid that is using a computer. Filters or not. I make it a point to tell them that is NOT how sex between two loving people work. The people doing that are doing it for money and often have a history of abuse. It sets up unrealistic expectations in relationships and that is the last place you should be receiving any sex education. 

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I haven't had to have too much of this converasation yet with my kids (1.5 and 4 yo), although the 4 yo is definately a doctor's kid and routinely talks about how the new baby is going to come out of my vagina with complete strangers.  He knows the whole labor process.  We've had some discussions about mechanics as far as how the baby gets in.

 

As far as when to have 'the talk', I agree with the advice given above for the most part as far as doing it in stages.  I think the most important thing you can do is make sure your values as a family are communicated clearly, early, and in a developmentally appropriate way.  As you can also see from the posts above, there is a lot of values to the discussion -- some of you might want your children to wait for marriage, others feel like planned parenthood is the best source of accurate information (it's not, in my opinion as a medical professional who spends a lot of time on adolescent and women's health).

 

I do think the most important thing is that you are thinking about having these discussions, and clearly recognize that your role as a parent is absolutely criical.  The last thing your child needs is yet another person flinging a few condoms at them as part of a 'harm minimization' approach.

 

 

LMC

 

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Wow! So many wonderful replies. I'm afraid I can't reply to every one, but I would like to thank you all very much. I'll definitely be looking into those book referrals.

 

You are all very awesome, and I appreciate your help in this. :)

 

I have much more confidence in approaching the subject, thanks to the hive.

 

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I have answered questions as they have come up, but I need to do a better job.

 

The birds and the bees conversation almost came up last week while reading about King Henry the VIII with my Dd. Um, I was not prepared at all to discuss the topic at that moment. It really caught me off guard, I never realized history could spur such an awkward conversation, LOL.

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