Would you move from the suburbs to NYC?

[Alessandra]

I grew up in Brooklyn Heights and it's a beautiful, very high end neighbourhood. It's wonderful for kids and there are parks and things to do. TONS of children. Very close to Manhattan, like 15 minutes by subway, so it's very easy to get there. My brother and his wife and two kids live there now and if you can afford it, that's the place I would live. They do have a car, but only to go to Long Island on the weekends, not for in-the-city use. They garage it ($800 a month) because alternate side of the street parking is a pain in the ass-it's basically a full time job (see the Seinfeld episode on this for more informatiion!!).

 

Grocery stores are right there, but msot people use freshdirect. There's starbucks, great restaurants, close subways, parks, a good-sized public library (not the fanciest, but good--we used to go to homeschool chess club there), you're RIGHT near the brooklyn bridge so nice to walk to manhattan on sunny days. There is a brand new waterfront park for children in Brooklyn Heights which is gorgeous: http://mommypoppins.com/content/things-to-do-in-brooklyn-bridge-park-with-kids

 

Here's a great summary of the things to do, both indoors and outdoors, for kids in Brooklyn Heights: http://mommypoppins.com/content/things-to-do-in-brooklyn-bridge-park-with-kids

 

Here's a beautiful 4 bedroom for rent: http://realestate.nytimes.com/rentals/detail/56-12984160/House-Garden-BROOKLYN-NY-11201

 

It's around the corner from where I grew up, steps from the Promenade with all the classic views of the Manhattan skyline. And it even has a small garden. It's on a gorgeous street.

 

Let me know if you have any other questions about Brooklyn Heights.

Wow, that is some park! Thanks for the link.

[Pink and Green Mom]

I do not know what your husband does for a living.  But in my experience (albeit limited) working in DC is a heck of a lot more laid back than NYC.

 

I was an attorney at the DC office of a large, highly regarded NYC law firm.  The difference between the two offices was staggering.  We were expected to bill 2000 hours per year in DC.  The attorneys in NYC were expected to bill 2500+.  Our office was pretty friendly, the office up there was cut throat and back stabby.  We usually worked one Saturday or maybe two per month.  Attorneys in the NYC office were expected to be in just about every Saturday and Sunday.  Partners, too.  The feel and attitude was so different you were hard pressed to tell it was the same firm. 

 

I have two friends (married to each other), each a partner at separate big DC law firms.  They moved back to the NYC offices to be closer to family.  The quality of working life was very different for them and even being closer to family one actually gave up the partnership position to stay home with the kids because they could just not make it work the way they could in DC.  The amount of work required was that different.

 

I have many friends in banking, investment banking, and accounting at large firms.  All of them experienced similar situations when moving from one branch of their company to the NYC branch. 

 

My point being, the increase in salary may come with strings attached.  I would make sure my husband had really, really researched what would be expected of him in the NYC office.  I know that is something that would completely go unnoticed by my husband if he were contemplating a move from one office to another.

[AngelaNYC]

Angela (and other NYC experts), do people in places like Park Slope and Brooklyn Heights usually have cars, or are cars less common? I mean, I guess we COULD keep our van, but I hear the parking is expensive and kind of a pain. What is life like in the Brooklyn neighborhoods that are closer to Manhattan? Like, how far of a walk is it to a grocery store? Are there exciting things going on in the street or do we need to go to Manhattan for that jazz?

 

(I guess we should go up and see Brooklyn. I've never been there--only Manhattan.)

 

I agree with what Halcyon said about Brooklyn Heights.  I haven't spent much time there but is sounds similar to many neighborhoods in Queens (Astoria, Douglaston, Forest Hills, Glendale, Maspeth, Middle Village, Bayside, Whitestone).  The further east you go in Queens, the more suburban it is and most people are in detached houses (with lots of yard space and a garage/driveway).  But eastern Queens is a bus, then a train ride to Manhattan.  Could take over an hour.  Western Queens has trains right there so the commute is usually around 15-30 minutes.  Also there are more 3-6 story apartment buildings in western Queens.  Maybe about 30-40% of homes are houses (with garages/driveways and small yards - mostly semi-detached).  Most people in Queens have cars.  The alternate side parking really only sucks when you don't have your own driveway.  

 

Grocery stores are usually within 2-3 blocks from home.  Many neighborhoods have parades (cultural, Halloween), Italian feasts, block parties, and street fairs.  Libraries and big parks always have tons of free things for kids to do (swimming and tennis lessons, track & field, urban rangers, etc).  

 

Oh and if you want to go see Brooklyn, I suggest sticking only with Park Slope and Brooklyn Heights (Brighton Beach and Coney Island are ok too).  NYC is weird in that the nicest neighborhoods are bordered by the more sketchier areas you want to avoid.  

[ErinE]

They do have a car, but only to go to Long Island on the weekends, not for in-the-city use. They garage it ($800 a month) because alternate side of the street parking is a pain in the ass-it's basically a full time job (see the Seinfeld episode on this for more informatiion!!).

As a non-native, I had so much greater appreciation for Seinfeld once we lived in NYC.

[Tanaqui]

NYC is weird in that the nicest neighborhoods are bordered by the more sketchier areas you want to avoid.

 

If you've ever read The Pigman (a book which is inordinately popular among high school teachers on Staten Island, or was when I was in high school) it describes Staten Island as having shacks right next to mansions. I tell you, Paul Zindel never wrote a truer word.

 

[elegantlion]

If you've ever read The Pigman (a book which is inordinately popular among high school teachers on Staten Island, or was when I was in high school) it describes Staten Island as having shacks right next to mansions. I tell you, Paul Zindel never wrote a truer word.

Ah, I loved that book.

[Aspasia]

Well, I wouldn't, because I hate big cities. . .

 

Would it be possible for you to rent out your current house, so you could always move back if you decided NYC wasn't for you?

Even if we came back to the DC area, I would want to buy a house inside the Beltway. No more of this commute for me, I don't care what city dh works in.

 

Much of this decision has to be guided by your dh's career correct? So are you at the point of deciding to take the job or just deciding whether to move in to the city?

Still deciding whether to take the job.

 

I do not know what your husband does for a living.  But in my experience (albeit limited) working in DC is a heck of a lot more laid back than NYC.

 

I was an attorney at the DC office of a large, highly regarded NYC law firm.  The difference between the two offices was staggering.  We were expected to bill 2000 hours per year in DC.  The attorneys in NYC were expected to bill 2500+.  Our office was pretty friendly, the office up there was cut throat and back stabby.  We usually worked one Saturday or maybe two per month.  Attorneys in the NYC office were expected to be in just about every Saturday and Sunday.  Partners, too.  The feel and attitude was so different you were hard pressed to tell it was the same firm. 

 

I have two friends (married to each other), each a partner at separate big DC law firms.  They moved back to the NYC offices to be closer to family.  The quality of working life was very different for them and even being closer to family one actually gave up the partnership position to stay home with the kids because they could just not make it work the way they could in DC.  The amount of work required was that different.

 

I have many friends in banking, investment banking, and accounting at large firms.  All of them experienced similar situations when moving from one branch of their company to the NYC branch. 

 

My point being, the increase in salary may come with strings attached.  I would make sure my husband had really, really researched what would be expected of him in the NYC office.  I know that is something that would completely go unnoticed by my husband if he were contemplating a move from one office to another.

This is a very good point. I don't really know what kind of hours they keep up there. 

[Aspasia]

So far, after many, MANY hours of researching and obsessing over this, I really have my sights set on Park Slope. I decided that with the importance I place on getting my kids outside, one of my priorities is being within a couple blocks of a park--just to make it super easy--and I really, really like Prospect Park. Not to mention all the other Brooklyn amenities and the positive stuff I've read about Park Slope. Oh, and the beautiful (and slightly more spacious) apartments!  I also love the idea of being halfway between Manhattan and Coney Island. So much fun in every direction! (But now Halcyon has me taking a closer look at Brooklyn Heights.)

 

Now my concern is about the rental inventory. This whole process (job formalities and selling our house) could take a couple months, which will put us well into October. The NYC rental inventory is apparently at an historic low already. What if there aren't any great apartments in Park Slope come October?!? How different is the rental inventory in the fall than in the summer?

 

(Can you guys tell that I have some anxiety issues?  :blush: )

[KungFuPanda]

I think it sounds grand. You'd spend less time schlepping to a laundromat than you currently do on yard work. For me, the real quality-of-life deal- breakers would be the ages of the kids and walking the dog. I say wait a decade until the dog kicks and the kids are teens and tweens. Then it's perfect again :-) If the job won't wait, would your DH compromise by commuting into the city until your kids are past the bouncing-off-the-walls stage?

 

I recently watched a documentary that said young families are starting to buy in Manhattan because parts of it are cheaper and more spacious than Brooklyn. That's nuts, but way to go Brooklyn.

[ErinE]

Even though I've sounded a bit negative on this thread, I hope that one day we could afford a small studio in NYC (or at least an annual trip). Christmas will always be New York City to me; it is so beautiful that time of year. Watch the movie Elf. When Will Ferrell runs around the city admiring all the Christmas trees - that was me. One of my favorite memories was walking to work the day after Christmas. The city had been hit by a snow storm so few cars were on the streets, and the snow was still white and clean. Magical.

 

Also, my DS knew how to call a taxi and work an elevator before he could climb stairs.

[gingersmom]

 

 

Also, my DS knew how to call a taxi and work an elevator before he could climb stairs.

At age 3 my daughter would stand on the sidewalk with her arm in the air yelling "taxi, taxi". It was hysterical.

[Halcyon]

Park Slope is great! Lovely neighbourhood, lots of kids, Prospect Park is awesome. And you're in walking distance to BrooklynHeights (:D)

 

Finding rentals is a PITA anywhere in the city. Be prepared to move quickly, have a check ready for the first, last and security as well as 15% broker's fee (I think that's the rate now, I could be wrong). You will likely need a broker for the good rentals. 

 

 

 

[ktgrok]

I'm reading this just fascinated. But I don't undestand the alternate side parking thing...this is so they can clean the street? Why do the streets need cleaning? I mean, in my suburb here in florida the streets don't get cleaned, and they are fine. What makes this different? I'm truly interested :)

[kewb]

It is so street cleaners/snow plows can reach the curb without cars in the way. Some say it is to encourage mass transit by making car ownership a pain in the rear.

There are a lot of people in the city and a lot of trash. Street cleaning is necessary.

[Halcyon]

I'm reading this just fascinated. But I don't undestand the alternate side parking thing...this is so they can clean the street? Why do the streets need cleaning? I mean, in my suburb here in florida the streets don't get cleaned, and they are fine. What makes this different? I'm truly interested :)

 

Having lived in both Florida and NYC, I can tell you NYC is much dirtier LOL. Lots of garbage on the streets, dog poo, urine, etc. 

[EmilyGF]

I haven't read this all but there is one key point I've come to accept living in a city.

 

You will only be happy living in the city if you approach the city as the city.

 

A friend of mine moved to the city a year ago. She is miserable. She hasn't explored enough to know where to feel safe. She can't parallel park. She won't walk places. 

 

If you live like you live in the city and take advantage of what you have instead of what you don't, city life can be great for a family (provided you can pay for rent). 

 

Use Instacart for Costco. :-) Oh, and I can park in any suburban parallel parking spot. The parallel parking spots in the suburbs are about as big as a football field.

 

Emily

[Aspasia]

Park Slope is great! Lovely neighbourhood, lots of kids, Prospect Park is awesome. And you're in walking distance to BrooklynHeights ( :D)

 

Finding rentals is a PITA anywhere in the city. Be prepared to move quickly, have a check ready for the first, last and security as well as 15% broker's fee (I think that's the rate now, I could be wrong). You will likely need a broker for the good rentals. 

 

Wait. First AND last month's rent, plus deposit, plus broker fee? We've been thinking in terms of just first month's, deposit, and broker's fee. Ugh...there goes another $5,000. It costs more to get into an apartment in NYC than we put down on our house!

 

[ErinE]

Wait. First AND last month's rent, plus deposit, plus broker fee? We've been thinking in terms of just first month's, deposit, and broker's fee. Ugh...there goes another $5,000. It costs more to get into an apartment in NYC than we put down on our house!

 

Welcome to New York!

 

ETA: I remember our broker fee being one month's rent. *edited out* Definitely get a broker; it will be very difficult to find a good place without one.

 

ETA2: Edited incorrect assumption. The brokers fee is 15% of a years rent so in the prior post example, the broker would get $18k. We paid one month, but we were there in a down real estate market and we found the place ourselves. The manager wouldn't lease to us unless we brought a broker.

[Squawky Acres]

I do not know what your husband does for a living.  But in my experience (albeit limited) working in DC is a heck of a lot more laid back than NYC.

 

I was an attorney at the DC office of a large, highly regarded NYC law firm.  The difference between the two offices was staggering.  We were expected to bill 2000 hours per year in DC.  The attorneys in NYC were expected to bill 2500+.  Our office was pretty friendly, the office up there was cut throat and back stabby.  We usually worked one Saturday or maybe two per month.  Attorneys in the NYC office were expected to be in just about every Saturday and Sunday.  Partners, too.  The feel and attitude was so different you were hard pressed to tell it was the same firm. 

 

I have two friends (married to each other), each a partner at separate big DC law firms.  They moved back to the NYC offices to be closer to family.  The quality of working life was very different for them and even being closer to family one actually gave up the partnership position to stay home with the kids because they could just not make it work the way they could in DC.  The amount of work required was that different.

 

I have many friends in banking, investment banking, and accounting at large firms.  All of them experienced similar situations when moving from one branch of their company to the NYC branch. 

 

My point being, the increase in salary may come with strings attached.  I would make sure my husband had really, really researched what would be expected of him in the NYC office.  I know that is something that would completely go unnoticed by my husband if he were contemplating a move from one office to another.

 

I agree with this.  I was an attorney at a high-profile NYC law firm, and then moved to a similarly ranked firm in Boston.  It was a completely different lifestyle.  In Boston (or other cities outside of New York, I would assume), it was expected that you may have a family and a life, and would prefer to be home on weekends and later in the evening if at all possible.  Of course, sometimes attorneys had to come in on a weekend, or work all night, but it would be because of something pressing.  In New York, it was the expectation that something was always pressing and you always had to work late nights and weekends.  I can't imagine trying to have a family with those sorts of expectations.  I was young and single at the time, and remember it was even difficult to date.  I had to cancel a first date with someone three times before we were able to find a Sunday evening for two hours that I was free.  In my experience with other investment banking, consulting, hedge fund or legal professionals, this was not at all unusual.

 

As much as I worked, NYC was still a thrilling place to live for ten years or so, but as soon as my husband and I got married, we fled the city and have never looked back.  Because of these extreme work expectations, I cannot imagine trying to have a family -- or even a marriage there.

[madteaparty]

Can I just say, completely unrelated to the thread, how cool it is that there's so many (former?) attorney moms here?

I made the decision to quit earlier this year and was tortured, thinking I was the only one ;)

[Bluegoat]

I actually prefer really urban or really rural to suburban.

 

But I would tend to be unsure about this - I have some friends who have lived in NYC and loved it, but without exception, the ones that had kids ended up moving out of the city, and putting up with the commute.  And they were all what I would consider city people.  My impression is that although there are a lot of fun things to do, the housing situation was always a problem - even when they had significant incomes.

 

If the job would only last a while, or it would be possible to consider a change of housing later, that would make a difference to my decision.

[Runningmom80]

Even though I've sounded a bit negative on this thread, I hope that one day we could afford a small studio in NYC (or at least an annual trip). Christmas will always be New York City to me; it is so beautiful that time of year. Watch the movie Elf. When Will Ferrell runs around the city admiring all the Christmas trees - that was me. One of my favorite memories was walking to work the day after Christmas. The city had been hit by a snow storm so few cars were on the streets, and the snow was still white and clean. Magical.

 

Also, my DS knew how to call a taxi and work an elevator before he could climb stairs.

We take our kids every Christmas as their gift. It's magic.

[SeaConquest]

I agree with this.  I was an attorney at a high-profile NYC law firm, and then moved to a similarly ranked firm in Boston.  It was a completely different lifestyle.  In Boston (or other cities outside of New York, I would assume), it was expected that you may have a family and a life, and would prefer to be home on weekends and later in the evening if at all possible.  Of course, sometimes attorneys had to come in on a weekend, or work all night, but it would be because of something pressing.  In New York, it was the expectation that something was always pressing and you always had to work late nights and weekends.  I can't imagine trying to have a family with those sorts of expectations.  I was young and single at the time, and remember it was even difficult to date.  I had to cancel a first date with someone three times before we were able to find a Sunday evening for two hours that I was free.  In my experience with other investment banking, consulting, hedge fund or legal professionals, this was not at all unusual.

 

As much as I worked, NYC was still a thrilling place to live for ten years or so, but as soon as my husband and I got married, we fled the city and have never looked back.  Because of these extreme work expectations, I cannot imagine trying to have a family -- or even a marriage there.

 

Nodding my head. When I worked in banking, an early night was coming home before 10 pm. A normal night was leaving at midnight. A late night was leaving after 2 am. There were many nights when I didn't leave at all. Granted, I was just an associate, but I've seen the hours that senior bankers and attorneys work. As they say, "Partnership is like winning a pie-eating contest, and the prize is more pie."

 

I moved back to the west coast, after our building (and job) was decimated by 9.11, and I still had a hard time with the demands. My first marriage didn't survive it; my second is doing well, but I no longer work. NYC is just a whole 'nother animal on a multitude of levels. 

[Aspasia]

Welcome to New York!

 

ETA: I remember our broker fee being one month's rent. *edited out* Definitely get a broker; it will be very difficult to find a good place without one.

 

ETA2: Edited incorrect assumption. The brokers fee is 15% of a years rent so in the prior post example, the broker would get $18k. We paid one month, but we were there in a down real estate market and we found the place ourselves. The manager wouldn't lease to us unless we brought a broker.

 

Good news! I just found out that the bank will likely pay to get us into the apartment (along with paying our mortgage while our house is on the market--at least that's what they did for someone else he knows who left his same office for the same employer). Phew! That relieves SO much stress for me! When we moved out here from Utah, it was for a government job and my husband was a young little peon, so no relocation help whatsoever. But now he would be going to work in a much more senior position for a bank. Feels very different!

[Aspasia]

Nodding my head. When I worked in banking, an early night was coming home before 10 pm. A normal night was leaving at midnight. A late night was leaving after 2 am. There were many nights when I didn't leave at all. Granted, I was just an associate, but I've seen the hours that senior bankers and attorneys work. As they say, "Partnership is like winning a pie-eating contest, and the prize is more pie."

 

I moved back to the west coast, after our building (and job) was decimated by 9.11, and I still had a hard time with the demands. My first marriage didn't survive it; my second is doing well, but I no longer work. NYC is just a whole 'nother animal on a multitude of levels. 

 

Well, this makes me nervous. DH is going to work for a bank. It isn't exactly a "banking" position, though. And it sounds like he'll have a lot of autonomy. I don't know if that might mean that he could do some work at home or what. These are all questions he's preparing to ask.

[Squawky Acres]

Well, this makes me nervous. DH is going to work for a bank. It isn't exactly a "banking" position, though. And it sounds like he'll have a lot of autonomy. I don't know if that might mean that he could do some work at home or what. These are all questions he's preparing to ask.

 

I think "investment banking" (Goldman Sachs and its kin), and the typical analyst track may not be the same thing as a position at a bank that one would take later in a career.  My husband actually had a fairly reasonable and well-paying 9-5 job working in midtown in another industry, so they do exist.  He also had a one-bedroom apartment in the west village for less than $2,000/month -- so he led a rather charmed life in NYC.

[SeaConquest]

I think "investment banking" (Goldman Sachs and its kin), and the typical analyst track may not be the same thing as a position at a bank that one would take later in a career.  My husband actually had a fairly reasonable and well-paying 9-5 job working in midtown in another industry, so they do exist.  He also had a one-bedroom apartment in the west village for less than $2,000/month -- so he led a rather charmed life in NYC.

 

When I spoke of banking, I was speaking of investment banking with a bulge bracket bank. There are plenty of finance positions that don't require i-banking hours. I would imagine that is true even in NYC. My experience is really just with the largest management consulting, investment banking, and law firms, which are known to be pretty grueling places. Yes, I am a total burnout. 

[FriedClams]

I would. DH would NEVER. I like him more than city life, so it's a no for me.

[Squawky Acres]

When I spoke of banking, I was speaking of investment banking with a bulge bracket bank. There are plenty of finance positions that don't require i-banking hours. I would imagine that is true even in NYC. My experience is really just with the largest management consulting, investment banking, and law firms, which are known to be pretty grueling places. Yes, I am a total burnout. 

 

I found that some personality types actually thrived with the pressure and hours of these positions.  It was incredible, but some of my co-workers actually seemed to love it.  I must admit that the work, the travel and perks could often be exciting, but there was too much of me that had to be suppressed and traded away for that position.  When people find out what I used to do, they ask if I miss it.  I say that I miss clean and I miss quiet, but apart from that, I don't miss it at all.

[Aspasia]

When I spoke of banking, I was speaking of investment banking with a bulge bracket bank. There are plenty of finance positions that don't require i-banking hours. I would imagine that is true even in NYC. My experience is really just with the largest management consulting, investment banking, and law firms, which are known to be pretty grueling places. Yes, I am a total burnout. 

 

Yeah, he's not an investment banker. He'll be working in reputational risk management (financial crimes compliance kind of stuff) for a bank that...well, let's just say they need it. ;)