This REALLY IS about schooling at home...

[Mamasteff]

I have seen some ideas for giving students the tools to choose which lessons and how many they need to do in a week, and then giving them the freedom to choose in what manner they will complete the list.

 

This was a complete failure for me this week.

 

Am I expecting too much from my 5th grader? We ended up missing a family event and doing 5 days of math (her least favorite) up until 6:30 tonight - usually done by 1 p.m.

 

So, is she too young, or did I approach it incorrectly? Anyone who has done this successfully? How do you teach your dc to take responsibility for their own learning? She wandered off all week... I'm thinking about making her bedroom off limits during school, as she gets sucked into ... doing her own thing.

 

(And I am still trying to balance the whole idea that she does need to do her ASSIGNED work, with the things she likes to do... ie, reading - I have assigned her school-related books, but she finds something else she'd rather read instead. I'm not an unschooler. How do you balance this??)

[JudyJudyJudy]

She probably isn't mature enough yet to handle that type of responsibility yet. Don't beat yourself over it; we live and learn. :)

[asta]

My son was only ready to start doing the "here's all of your work, if you get it done early, the rest of the week is yours to do as you wish" thing at 13-14 (8th grade).

 

Even then, there were things that had to be done daily (musical instrument practice), and things he just couldn't get done early (math - he doesn't like it).

 

 

asta

[funschooler5]

I've been struggling with this also. One of my friends gives her daughter a list of things she wants done for the week, and she works independently. She's been doing this since her daughter was in the 3rd grade. I've always been in awe of this. I tend to "hover" more, I read aloud assignments, and hang around and answer questions when they do math, etc. Now that my daughter is in 5th grade, she does just about everything on her own, but I tell her what to do when. Sometimes I'll say, "Do you want to do math first, or science?" and she'll choose, but I've never given a week's worth of work and said that it all needs to be done by Friday, because frankly, I know it won't get done. I'm putting together a small binder for her so she can start checking off assignments that she finishes and keep track of her flute practicing. I think after she gets the hang of that, I might try giving her a couple of days assignments at a time and see if she can finish them on her own time. If it doesn't work, we can try again next year. :001_smile:

[Laura Corin]

He is doing a pretty good job of getting things done. I still tell him when to take breaks and how long they should be, because he's not able to drag himself away from a book to get back to the other things he needs to do.

 

I think it's a matter of personality. Calvin is extremely responsible and worries about not doing things right. I can't see Hobbes being able to do this at age eleven.

 

Laura

[Peela]

I agree with Laura that it is probably a matter of personality.

I have just discovered that my dd14 hasnt been reading one of her assigned books. She is a happy, friendly kid who says "sure mum" when you tell her to do something. But, it doesn't mean she will actually follow through and do it unless you watch her to make sure she does it NOW. She wont necessarily mean to not do it- she will just forget, get distracted, on something very important (to her!).

 

I have a schedule on each of their desks. I sit in the school room 90% of the time they are working. I have learned I need to check their work, to notice what they are doing, because, bless them, they are normal kids who might even try and do less than what is on their schedules if they think I won't notice :001_rolleyes:

 

Both of mine DO work fairly independently- well, my son less than my daughter. But, he can read his schedule and knows what to do- he just likes to interact a lot :).

 

I would expect some kids to naturally prefer to not have mum watching over their shoulder, or to want to do their work willingly. Unfortunately I have the other kind of kids, who can do their work, but really need me, an external force, to structure them, to be on their case to some extent (not necessarily nagging, just helping them refocus).

 

Many teenagers cannot structure their time well,and it is something they often, even usually, need help with. So I don't think it would be unusual to have a preteen who still needs lots of help in that area.

[Melissa in Australia]

my children all have a list of what has to be done each morning. they are free to choose the order. I am hovering around at all times, helping each on whenever it is needed. by about 11. I start checking how they are going, and give reminders for them to do subjects they haven't done yet.

I hope this will lead to children doing their work more independently as they get older.

[Mom0012]

I do this fairly successfully with my third grader, BUT we only do a daily list rather than a weekly list. Maybe you could start with that and work up?

 

Lisa

[hsmamainva]

I do this fairly successfully with my third grader, BUT we only do a daily list rather than a weekly list. Maybe you could start with that and work up?

 

Lisa

 

That's what I do. My kids have a daily assignment list. It doesn't matter to me when they do it, or what order it's done in, as long as it's all completed by dinnertime -- I check it then, or my husband does, depending on who's cooking :D

 

(I sit down and work one-on-one with my 6 year old though, of course)

[Carrie12345]

I'm trying to give my 5th grader the same kind of options. I don't know if my take on it is different because of his personality or because this is his first year (first *week) at home.

 

The responsibility was a bit much for him this week, and I did have to coach and coax him to get things done. It's a whole new experience for him, and a lot of new material. I just think he doesn't have a grasp on how long things will take or how to juggle subjects with various lengths.

 

I assume that he's still going to need some help managing his schedule, but I do think that he'll eventually be able to handle the bulk of the responsibility under a watchful eye.

[Trivium Academy]

No help but I would think this is something to be built up to instead of just okay, you're in xth grade so it's time to start managing your own work.

 

Just some ideas (from an organized, inexperienced hsler)

- If you're not making a checklist of some sort for the week, start doing it and share the work of creating it with your dd.

- Give her own subject to manage on her own with a half week check-in with you. For example, give her something non-essential like informal logic and have her check in with you halfway through the week to report on what she has done and what she still has to do.

- I would probably also read a few books on Time Management for kids, Joy Berry has a wonderful book called A Kid's Guide to Managing Time. I'm sure there are other titles and helps.

 

http://pbskids.org/itsmylife/parents/resources/time.html

http://pbskids.org/itsmylife/school/time/print_books.html

 

Organizing from the Inside Out for Teenagers: The Foolproof System for Organizing Your Room, Your Time, and Your Life by Julie Morgenstern

 

I hope this helps.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Am I expecting too much from my 5th grader?

 

I would think the great majority of 5th graders are not ready for this yet.

[8filltheheart]

My kids have a daily list starting in 3rd grade. The order they choose to complete independent work is up to them. When it is completed is non-negotiable......as in it will be completed by early afternoon, not later in the day. When they work with me is non-negotiable simply b/c they have to fit into my schedule not vice versa.

 

I grade work when it is completed. At the end of the day, I know that all their work has been completed for that day.

 

Now I will qualify that the kids actually do know what is expected for the week b/c their planners are written in 6 week chunks. They can work ahead if they want but I make sure x,y, and z is finished every day.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Dd7 can handle a daily checklist fine. Sometimes she goofs off, but I think all kids are going to try to do that. If she doesn't get her work done, she has homework in the evening. Sometimes she chooses this, and it's fine with me as long as the assignment has been started. But she can look at the list, get her books and other needed materials out, and inform me of what she's doing next so I can make sure she has the concept down.

 

If work is not done there is no TV, phone, friends, or computer. Once work is done her time is hers to do with as she pleases. She wants to finish because she wants to be able to do what she wants.

 

It is a struggle some days. We all have days when we don't want to get up and go to work, but kids tend to be more vocal or otherwise act out outwardly in those situations a lot of times.

 

Even though I know what dd has completed, I will ask, "How many subjects have you done?" or "How long before I need to be ready for us to do Logic?" I also make it a point to really praise her when she is knocking her work out quickly.

 

Also, because I turned over the checklist to her means I have turned the checklist over to her. This means that I try my best not to nag when dd is taking an hour to do a simple assignment. She is the one losing that time. What I don't have to do is allow breaks, playing, or wandering away while an assignment is in progress. Dd is not forced to sit at her desk, but I will require it if she goes in her room to read and is playing instead. I am willing to grant freedom when the responsibility is there, if it's not, the freedom is scaled back or denied.

 

If you are expecting this kind of independence to happen rapidly, that might not be a good strategy. Maybe start with one or two subjects that your dc is responsible for, then when that's easy, add more.

[Heather in the Kootenays]

I expect it from my now 8th grade son but I check his progress regularly. It just takes a conversation over breakfast - so how's it going? He also has a list he crosses off.

 

My daughter was capable of doing this earlier but not as early as 5th grade.

[Jenny in Florida]

Actually, both of mine have.

 

Funny story: I started this with my daughter trying to teach her a lesson. Basically, when she was 7 or 8, she was just so obstinate and difficult about getting her work done, and she complained about every lesson and argued about what order to do things in and, well, pretty much everything else, too. Finally, I threw my hands up in the air and said, if she didn't like the way I handled scheduling, she could just try doing it herself. I wrote out all of her assignments for the week with little checkboxes next to them and handed her the sheet, figuring she'd dig herself into a hole and be back begging for help in two days.

 

Instead, she did the work. All of it. More or less on time. So, I guess she learned a lesson, but it wasn't exactly the one I had in mind.

 

It took my son until a little older to be able to handle this. And we tried several other approaches for a couple of years. As of sometime last year, though (when he was 9-ish), he started doing well just working off my weekly lesson plans.

 

We keep in touch about it, though, throughout the day and the week. So, on Monday morning, he looks at the planning sheet and comes up with a general idea of how much of each thing he'll do each day. We chat about it, and I either say, "go for it" or nudge him to consider some options. If I know in advance that we have an appointment or something that will infringe on the schedule, I tell him and walk him through figuring out how to accomodate it.

 

Then, as he finishes each item, he lets me know it's done so I can write it in my log book. He brings me anything that needs grading. So, at the end of each day, I know exactly what he has and had not done. He likes free time in the middle of the week, and our rule is that he may take Wednesday mostly off (he still has to do a math lesson) if he has finished half of his work for the week by the end of Tuesday. So, again, I know where he is by then, meaning he can't get into too much trouble before I know about it.

 

We've been doing this since early last year, and it works really well for him.

[JenParrish]

He probably is just not ready to do it. My son is much younger, age 7, second grade. This year, I give him just a little bit of work (5-10 pages) reviewing things we have covered already. I call it reinforcement work. They are given on Monday and due on Sunday at Supper time with the goal of finishing them by Friday. We have been doing this for 5 weeks and he has completed his work on Friday all but once and he did it on Saturday. If work is not completed by Supper time on Sunday, there will be no screen time the following week. The thought of that motivates him to complete his work. He even complained this past week because I scheduled fun stuff when he planned to finish up his work. It has really worked well to add this responsibility to him.

[Mama Lynx]

I did the same thing with my then-5th grader, with the same results:)

 

Now, I give him a checklist. It lists out the work I expect him to do each day. He may work ahead, if he likes; however he must complete the assignments for that day.

 

This seems to work well for us. It gives him the freedom to structure his day however he wants, but still get his assignments finished.

 

I have a carrot - my boys love their computer time. No computer time until all schoolwork and chores are completed.

[Stacy in NJ]

I have seen some ideas for giving students the tools to choose which lessons and how many they need to do in a week, and then giving them the freedom to choose in what manner they will complete the list.

 

This was a complete failure for me this week.

 

Am I expecting too much from my 5th grader? We ended up missing a family event and doing 5 days of math (her least favorite) up until 6:30 tonight - usually done by 1 p.m.

 

So, is she too young, or did I approach it incorrectly? Anyone who has done this successfully? How do you teach your dc to take responsibility for their own learning? She wandered off all week... I'm thinking about making her bedroom off limits during school, as she gets sucked into ... doing her own thing.

 

(And I am still trying to balance the whole idea that she does need to do her ASSIGNED work, with the things she likes to do... ie, reading - I have assigned her school-related books, but she finds something else she'd rather read instead. I'm not an unschooler. How do you balance this??)

 

I think you need to do it in baby steps. I think many 5th graders would be unsure how to handle that much freedom. Maybe this is a case of too much freedom too quickly?

 

First, give her the list of stuff that needs to be completed *that day*, and set a specific time that it all needs to be done by, say 3 or 4 pm. For some subjects, I find that my kiddos still (grades 4 and 6) need me to push a bit. Seperate her work out into "independent" and "guided", those subjects she's capable of just doing on her own and those she needs to you teach and nudge. Set specific times during the day for the guided stuff and let her fill in the rest of the day with the independent stuff.

 

Check each afternoon that she's completed what needs to be done for that day. As she matures and proves she can do her daily tasks with little pushing, and the school work becomes more involved you can be more flexible with how and when assignments are done and due.

 

Just some ideas. HTH, Stacy

[Stacy in NJ]

I agree with Laura that it is probably a matter of personality.

I have just discovered that my dd14 hasnt been reading one of her assigned books. She is a happy, friendly kid who says "sure mum" when you tell her to do something. But, it doesn't mean she will actually follow through and do it unless you watch her to make sure she does it NOW. She wont necessarily mean to not do it- she will just forget, get distracted, on something very important (to her!).

 

I have a schedule on each of their desks. I sit in the school room 90% of the time they are working. I have learned I need to check their work, to notice what they are doing, because, bless them, they are normal kids who might even try and do less than what is on their schedules if they think I won't notice :001_rolleyes:

 

Both of mine DO work fairly independently- well, my son less than my daughter. But, he can read his schedule and knows what to do- he just likes to interact a lot :).

 

I would expect some kids to naturally prefer to not have mum watching over their shoulder, or to want to do their work willingly. Unfortunately I have the other kind of kids, who can do their work, but really need me, an external force, to structure them, to be on their case to some extent (not necessarily nagging, just helping them refocus).

 

Many teenagers cannot structure their time well,and it is something they often, even usually, need help with. So I don't think it would be unusual to have a preteen who still needs lots of help in that area.

 

 

I think many *adults* would fall into this category, as well. Most people, at least the ones I know, need a bit of accountability. :001_smile:

 

That doesn't mean we need to micro-manage, just generally be there and observe.

[Mamasteff]

I ran out of rep points to thank all of you for your lovely ideas. I appreciate hearing from you all.

 

It's good to be reminded that each child has a different personality, and of course the little darlings sometimes need to be "nudged."

 

We had a long talk during which I explained my disappointment (she did have a list and knows where all of her work is.)

 

I am going to write the assignments differently for her - she will sit with me while we fill out her planner, and instead of grouping them by subject, I will group them by day. I will DEFINITELY be checking daily to make sure she has done what has been asked.

 

And I realized this is probably NOT the best time of year to start something new - I need to take several days over the next 2 weeks to meet with my virtual school students in person at the library. So she will be coming with me... and I know if I had been allowed to sit in the library for 6 hours, I certainly would NOT have wanted to do assignments! I will tweak the assignments so she can choose some good books at the library.

 

Thanks again all of you!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

When I was a work supervisor, the phrase I was taught was "You get what you inspect, not what you expect." In other words, it isn't enough just to tell someone what you want done, you also have to follow up and make sure that it really was done (and to the standards you wanted).

 

I think that it is a great goal to work toward with your daughter. But chances are, you aren't privy to all the baby steps done by the family you admire. Did they start with a daily schedule? A weekly schedule with the child reporting in before lunch and in the afternoon with what they'd done for the day? Maybe a chat each morning to discuss what the kid was planning on getting done? A midweek check to see if she was on track or if she needed more direction in order to be done by Friday?

 

Anyway, I knew college students who couldn't understand a schedule and keep to it, so it is a skill worth developing. But I don't think that it comes naturally to most people. It is a result of habit training.

[mooooom]

But I only gave them two subjest to do this with. They handled it very responsibly. Also, I gave them subjects that they didn't have any issues with. I think it's something you have to gradually work up to.

[ChemMommy]

But she will be ready eventually! Really!

 

A weeks worth of "stuff" was probably too overwhelming. We use a daily assignment chart with places for them to check things off (I love the feeling of checking off work). My then 8th grader then began to be able to look at the week and see how to get caught up if he had gotten behind or could make plans to finish on Saturday. But that did not happen until 8th grader. My then 6th grade dd could not have done that.

 

What I did find was that when child #4 started in school, she could handle a daily assignment page in kindergarten just fine, all from watching the others do their work.

 

What did not work well for my then 8th grader was letting him plan physical science for himself. He did the work every day (yeah!) but did not do enough to each day to get done with everything in a year (sigh). However, he did learn a good lesson and get lots of experience planning out work.

 

This year, 9th grade, he's definitely doing better at planning stuff.

 

Oh, and all of my kids, hands-down, list being able to do their subjects in the order of their choosing as one of the top five positives of homeschooling. Go figure! If I'd been writing the lists for them, I would never have even considered that. I think they like the feeling of being in control of some part of their academic work, even in 1st grade!

[katilac]

I have to add one more thought: just because a student is given a weekly checklist, that does not mean the teacher/parent should only be checking that work at the end of the week. Even at the college level, assigments are routinely checked several times a week.

 

Long-term projects that may stretch over the semester are the exception - students are supposed to be putting skills they have already aquired into practice. Even then, there are periodic check-ins to ensure the student is staying on course (turning in a topic or work plan, rough draft, etc).

 

When students of any age are learning new skills, they need steady correction and feedback. This is really crucial in math, where a student can get incredibly turned around and confused by working problems the wrong way for an entire week. Not to mention the frustration that comes into play if the student has to re-do five days worth of assignments!

 

I have a 5th grader as well. I'd put her on the high end of the independent scale in most areas (schoolwork, chores, music practice), and we do use a weekly assignment list. She decides how/when/where to do her independent work on a daily basis, and there is SOME wiggle room across the week, but skipping more than a day of math wouldn't fly at my house.

 

We use a weekly binder, with the assignment list in the front. I do slot things into suggested days (which are printed on the sheet anyway), but she is certainly welcome to do grammar on Thursday instead of Tuesday, or to update her history notebook early so she doesn't have to do it on Friday.

 

I expect math to be worked on every day, unless there is a compelling reason not to. If it's a concept I know she thoroughly understands, she can work ahead and have Friday free, but that's about it. Spelling gets worked on every day, because she absolutely needs daily practice for that.

 

As far as balance, my kids (and most hs'd kids) spent far less time in 'class' than their counterparts at school. Therefore, while I am open to suggestions that both meet our academic goals and don't inconvenience me too much, :), the final decision is mine. They have many free hours to pursue their own interests and read their own books.