Organ trafficking, Does it happen in the US?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Sure. But think about it - first, you need to ensure a tissue match. This is a very involved process checking blood type, HLA match, & (especially for living donations) cross-match. This involves specialized people and equipment. Second, generally only large (usually teaching) hospitals can perform transplants due to specialist issues (doctors and nurses), space (the transplant OR suites I've seen are pretty big), facilities & specialized equipment (to include various bypass machines, blood/blood product storage, et al), and other issues. And that's just for the surgery itself.

 

Finally, you have to worry about post-op issues, including ongoing medication needs and rejection.

 

It's not that illegal transplants don't happen; it's that in order to assure (as best as one can) a good outcome, one needs access to highly specialized resources. To have an "off book" transplant would mean that many people were involved. The more people who are involved, the greater the likelihood of someone spilling the beans.

Exactly.  My nephew got his new heart over ten years ago but he is still monitored at least twice a year by the transplant team which requires him traveling hundreds of miles to get to the research hospital.  He was on life support for over a month but conditions had to be  just right for that operation to happen.  Our family was so grateful that the donor family was willing to give the gift of life to my nephew even while they were in the midst of grief for the death of their loved one.  

 

To answer the OP, Americans participate in organ trafficking but not in the US.  Most of the actual operations are done in India.  And most of the "donors" (put in parentheses since not all were intending to donate) are from very poor countries.  http://newint.org/features/2014/05/01/organ-trafficking-keynote/ If you read down the linked article you will see that post transplant problems are common.  

[Audrey]

Some people have serious emotional issues with the idea of a body being altered after death and the organs used in other people's bodies. I think some people may also have religious beliefs against it, but I'm not sure about the details.

 

Obviously, I am in favor of organ donation because of my dh's health situation, but I was in favor of it years ago as well. If my body stops keeping me alive, maybe my parts can help someone else survive or live a better, fuller life.

 

 

Seems to me that is their issue and has no bearing on what a person wants to do with their own body.  I think it is an egregious shame to use emotional blackmail to try to get people not to donate.  Obviously I am fully in favour of donation as well.  ;)

[Audrey]

I think organ donation should be an opt out situation instead of opt in.

 

 

That would get more donations in the pool, but as much as I'd like to see that happen, I think it does need to be a person's own, self-determined and conscious decision, not a default position. 

[Audrey]

FWIW, people (religious or not religious) do not have "emotional attachment" to a dead body.  Rather, they hold to varying philosophies and/or religious beliefs about the meaning and value of human life, which can include (or not include) a belief in an afterlife.  For these people, the human body is not just "a shell" or "a casement". 

 

Well, if the dead person didn't hold those beliefs why should they trump what the dead person did believe?

[Closeacademy]

Exactly.  My nephew got his new heart over ten years ago but he is still monitored at least twice a year by the transplant team which requires him traveling hundreds of miles to get to the research hospital.  He was on life support for over a month but conditions had to be  just right for that operation to happen.  Our family was so grateful that the donor family was willing to give the gift of life to my nephew even while they were in the midst of grief for the death of their loved one.  

 

To answer the OP, Americans participate in organ trafficking but not in the US.  Most of the actual operations are done in India.  And most of the "donors" (put in parentheses since not all were intending to donate) are from very poor countries.  http://newint.org/features/2014/05/01/organ-trafficking-keynote/ If you read down the linked article you will see that post transplant problems are common.  

When I first heard about it I didn't believe things that this really went on in the world and just thought that they were making it up to make movies and dramas (mainly out of Asia) more dramatic.  But I talked to a friend who lives in Manila and she said it was a serious problem and that they had passed laws there to at least reduce the number if not outlaw it completely for people to sell their organs often in exchange for paying off debt.  She was actually surprised that I didn't know that such things were real.

 

It is a sad world that we live in where the poor are treated as animals to benefit the wealthy.

[vonfirmath]

Although I support organ donation, I vehemently disagree. I am NOT the property of the state. Organ donation is a deeply personal decision, and the choice should be freely made by the individual or his/her loved ones. People should not have to "opt out" in order to keep their own body parts no matter what the public benefit is. That said, I think better education of the public as well as frank discussions about why people are reluctant to donate might help boost donation. Sadly, it's one of those issues that people don't always think much about until a family member needs a new organ.

 

Or a friend.  A Sunday School class member just got a new heart a month ago.  Despite my skepticism about how transplants work (the whole issue of making the decision that the person is dead enough to take organs which, yes, is a decision that must be made because the organ has to be still alive when taken or it does no one any good), this has changed my mind to become a listed organ donor. (I was okay with it, but, before, was just counting on family to let them know instead of having it listed on my DL)

[Orthodox6]

Well, if the dead person didn't hold those beliefs why should they trump what the dead person did believe?

I was explaining to Sparkly Unicorn why some people do consider this a topic of importance. I did not cover the concept of whose beliefs should supercede whose. Yours is a separate point, and worth discussing.

[Orthodox6]

Audrey, as I said, you raise a point important for people to discuss. Careful choice of ones MPOA, the presence or absence of a DNR, and explicit instructions in ones willl regarding handling of ones body after death -- these should be set in place well ahead of the time that death might be expected to occur. As one can die at any moment, though, earlier is better than later. If there is doubt that family members will honor ones choices, then it is even more important legally to name those individuals whom one can count on.

[Audrey]

Audrey, as I said, you raise a point important for people to discuss. Careful choice of ones MPOA, the presence or absence of a DNR, and explicit instructions in ones willl regarding handling of ones body after death -- these should be set in place well ahead of the time that death might be expected to occur. As one can die at any moment, though, earlier is better than later. If there is doubt that family members will honor ones choices, then it is even more important legally to name those individuals whom one can count on.

 

I fully agree.

[Catwoman]

As an aside, I had a professor in law school who argued pretty persuasively that the organ shortage would disappear if we could pay people or their families for organs. This was one of his areas of professional interest. It makes a lot of sense and would undoubtedly save lives and money. Seems like a win-win to me.

 

I disagree with this position. I don't want monetary concerns to be a part of a family's decision as to whether or not to pull the plug on a sick or injured family member.

 

Can you imagine what it would be like if people were sitting around in a hospital waiting room saying, "Hey, I wonder how much they'll give us for Uncle Ted. Maybe the other hospital across town is paying more for hearts and lungs, but I think we can get a better price here for his kidneys and corneas."

 

Yuck.

 

Just yuck. :ack2:

[Catwoman]

I remember a controversy involving Larry Hagman getting a liver transplant when others who were not alcoholic were lower on the list. That's not the same a flat out trafficking though.

There is still a certain degree of controversy over whether or not alcoholics should qualify for liver transplants.

 

As was the case with Larry Hagman, though, an actively-drinking alcoholic would not be listed for transplant -- and I believe he did meet the qualifications of having quit drinking a while before he was listed. The person would have had to have quit drinking for at least 6 months before being considered for inclusion on a transplant list (monitored by both scheduled and random testing) as well as been through a rehabilitation program and psychological counseling and evaluation. It's not like someone can find out they have cirrhosis, quit drinking that day, and be on a transplant list a month later. Additionally, if the person starts drinking again at any point while on the list, he or she is immediately removed from the list and has to start the entire process from square one.

 

My dh didn't drink and his liver disease was something he got as a result of rotten luck and he did nothing to cause it, so I have mixed feelings about this issue. I don't want to start a debate about it in this thread, though, because I don't want to derail the topic, and also because I recognize that my own opinions are biased due to personal experience.

[Catwoman]

Well, if the dead person didn't hold those beliefs why should they trump what the dead person did believe?

:iagree:

 

I don't think it should.

 

I think we should all be in control over what happens to our own bodies even after we die, so if we have family members who we think might try to cause a problem about it, it's important to have legal documentation that will prevent them from making decisions about what happens to us.

[PeacefulChaos]

Along the lines of being listed as a donor...

 

Back in the day... I don't even know when... it was actually recommended to me to not check the organ donor box and be listed as one.  Back then, for whatever reason, there was a lot of ambiguity surrounding how dead was dead enough and would they be more likely to let the person die if they were an organ donor.

 

I don't know that I believe any of that... however, I've still never put myself down as a donor.  I told DH he can donate my organs.  

 

[LucyStoner]

Along the lines of being listed as a donor...

 

Back in the day... I don't even know when... it was actually recommended to me to not check the organ donor box and be listed as one. Back then, for whatever reason, there was a lot of ambiguity surrounding how dead was dead enough and would they be more likely to let the person die if they were an organ donor.

 

I don't know that I believe any of that... however, I've still never put myself down as a donor. I told DH he can donate my organs.

I really think that is a sensational rumor fueled by things like Law and Order (in fact I am sure this was a Law and Order episode!) Does it happen? Occasionally at most. As a matter of course, medical personnel will go to the mat to preserve life. And because organ allocation isn't controlled by the doctors caring for the donor patient, they don't, save for TV dramas where there's the sympathetic young person down the hall in need of a heart, have the conflict of interest of treading into thinking "oh, I could save that other patient by letting this one die".

[plansrme]

I disagree with this position. I don't want monetary concerns to be a part of a family's decision as to whether or not to pull the plug on a sick or injured family member.

 

Can you imagine what it would be like if people were sitting around in a hospital waiting room saying, "Hey, I wonder how much they'll give us for Uncle Ted. Maybe the other hospital across town is paying more for hearts and lungs, but I think we can get a better price here for his kidneys and corneas."

 

Yuck.

 

Just yuck. :ack2:

 

The vast majority of potential organ donors, however, are never in a "do we pull the plug" state.  They are, instead, cut-and-dried cases where the sole question is, "Do we throw away his body or use whatever can be used?"  If we paid something--anything--more families would say "yes" to organ donation.  There's really nothing to be squeamish about--it's a body part, not a soul.

[SKL]

Well, if the dead person didn't hold those beliefs why should they trump what the dead person did believe?

 

My feelings are exactly opposite.  When I'm dead, I really don't think I'm going to care what happens with my body.  It's not like dead people are sentimental.  The people who are alive are the ones affected by that stuff, and each person is going to experience a loved one's death in his own way.  And I'm not sure we can know that in advance.

 

What I want is whatever will give my survivors the most peace.

 

[Catwoman]

The vast majority of potential organ donors, however, are never in a "do we pull the plug" state. They are, instead, cut-and-dried cases where the sole question is, "Do we throw away his body or use whatever can be used?" If we paid something--anything--more families would say "yes" to organ donation. There's really nothing to be squeamish about--it's a body part, not a soul.

There is certainly nothing to be squeamish about. My "yuck" was in regard to the suggestion that we should offer financial compensation to people for their family members' body parts.

 

Additionally, the organ donation process is hardly as "cut-and-dried" as you seem to believe. I would respectfully suggest you learn a bit more about transplantation processes, rules, and regulations before you make such sweeping statements.

 

Your argument sounds sensible on the surface, but I assure you that the transplantation procedures and processes are not nearly as simplistic as you make them sound and the issues are far more complex than your law professor appears to have realized.

 

Don't get me wrong -- I am all in favor of organ donation. The donation of one person's organs can potentially help 50 other people. My dh needs a new liver. There aren't enough to go around and he may never get one. But I still don't support the idea of paying people for organs. I believe the public needs to be better educated about how much good they can do for others if they donate their organs. I think it's crucial that people realize that the old myths about doctors letting patients die so they can use their organs in other patients are just that -- myths. I wish people would have more trust in doctors and hospital staff so they would feel more comfortable with the idea of organ donation. But putting a price on people's organs? No, I don't support that at all.

[Catwoman]

My feelings are exactly opposite. When I'm dead, I really don't think I'm going to care what happens with my body. It's not like dead people are sentimental. The people who are alive are the ones affected by that stuff, and each person is going to experience a loved one's death in his own way. And I'm not sure we can know that in advance.

 

What I want is whatever will give my survivors the most peace.

 

I agree with you -- if my dh or son would be traumatized by the idea of donating my organs, their feelings would be paramount to me.

 

But that isn't the case with many people and their own desire to donate their organs is more important to them than what anyone else thinks or wants, and that is why I think it is so important that each of us is entitled to make our own decision regarding what will happen to our bodies after we die. If we have strong feelings one way or the other, we should be sure our wishes are properly documented. If we prefer to let our families decide, we should appoint someone to act in that capacity.

[Melissa in Australia]

I watched a documentary a few months back about two groups ( gangs? tribes? ) of people in North Africa who actively hunted and killed other humans to harvest the organs and sell them on the black market in Europe. It was horrifying. BUt people are so desperate to extend their life that they really do not want to look into what is really going on.

[gardenmom5]

we had a thing blow up locally a few years back where "donor" organs were being sold to researchers as opposed to actually being donated to patients. families of loved ones got wind of it - and it blew up in the media as the family could not stop it.  a lot of people dropped being an organ donor from their driver's licenses.

[rebbyribs]

As far as legitimate living organ donation in the U.S., the situation is the opposite.  The donor needs to have health insurance, needs to be able to travel to the hospital near the recipient, and needs to be able to afford the time off work for testing, surgery, and recovery.  The recipient cannot compensate the donor for these expenses.  (I've been reading up on this because someone in my extended family is in need of a kidney transplant soon.)  I absolutely don't want a situation where desperate people are selling their kidneys, but it seems wrong that there should be such a financial burden for living organ donors.  

[ChocolateReignRemix]

As far as legitimate living organ donation in the U.S., the situation is the opposite.  The donor needs to have health insurance, needs to be able to travel to the hospital near the recipient, and needs to be able to afford the time off work for testing, surgery, and recovery.  The recipient cannot compensate the donor for these expenses.  (I've been reading up on this because someone in my extended family is in need of a kidney transplant soon.)  I absolutely don't want a situation where desperate people are selling their kidneys, but it seems wrong that there should be such a financial burden for living organ donors.  

 

Pretty sure the bolded is incorrect,  The medical related expenses are covered from the recipient end.  DH was a possible bone marrow match for someone years ago and we learned a lot during the process.