12 year olds

[kwg]

A friend has 2 boys who for 6  years have each been pretty close friends with my 2 boys.  This school year her older is - as she has said- going through a "prickly phase" and not really been interested in playing with my older or anyone else.  At first, it was not an issue too much but lately  my ds12 is feeling left out and hurt that the other child does not want to play with him and is not inviting him over when my younger son is invited.  So dh and I talked and thought it might be best to welcome the child here but not really play over there for a while.  It was feeling too much like "yeah you are not invited"  and when he asked why all I had to go one was "so and so doesnt feel like playing today".  Today while ds was in class I took younger ds over there so I could chat with the mom. She keeps inviting just younger over to play and so I wanted to let her know why I was saying no and that it is not that my younger doesnt want to play with her younger or that I was avoiding her  but just the whole hurt feeling thing.  She is my close friend too.  

 

So I am trying to explain this awkwardness lol and she says that she thinks it is her son just not wanting to be around others and then also that she thinks they have different sense of humor.  My ds puts hers down a lot, she says, and it is prob just joking but it hurts her ds's feelings.

 

Well, yeah. BC  putting others down isn't funny......???  

 

So I ask what she means and  she says that at the last park day (just a few families) another boy wanted to wrestle and her son said no and mine said "yeah he can't bc his mom will freak out" which made her son feel badly.  She said  I am sure he was joking.... I said I did not think he was joking at all when he said that he was speaking the truth  :confused1:  SHe doesn't want him to wrestle.  It sounded to me (if we were going to nit pik the convo) that he was annoyed.  

 

For clarification :The last time  they wrestled, my ds accidently hurt hers (hers is 11).  And after that they (mom and son) both got so mad they left the park without accepting my ds' apology.  SO I  told my ds to not wrestle with him.    This was many months ago but to be fair I do remind my son lately before we leave to see them at any other free play thing  bc I was still hearing about it from her every so often (little comments here and there).   I think perhaps I did not handle it well; it was right after my grandmother's death and I was not caring about childhood drama.  If he wanted to sulk off, so be it, yk?  I did have my child apologize- and he was fine with that bc it was truly an accident- but when he would not accept it, I thought whatver then and never followed up.  Maybe I should have? I was annoyed he would not accept the apology and he did not seem that hurt anyway and annoyed she left like that and really just sad about my own life circumstances. 

 

 

So I guess I am trying to figure out if what my ds said at the park was so bad and if so how am I supposed to talk to him about it? What is it that he did exactly and how was that putting her son down? 

 

The best part of this is that I am a really sensitive person!  I feel badly that her son thinks mine is mean -she said this a while ago - the whole sense of humor thing. I also feel badly that he is thinking mine is mean and mine is wanting to play and making an effort to be nice when we see him.  He is completely clueless.  It is like I want to tell my kid "let it go, he does not like you" bc ...I dont know. bc her child is picking apart everything mine says when I can't see what the big deal is!  There are a few other instances but they are similar to this one.

 

I am not interested in solving the friendship part.  But I do want to make sure my son is not growing up to be an @ssh@t.  

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Maybe not the one thing in and of itself, but little comments like that add up. 

 

It upsets me just reading it really.  I am sensitive though. 

 

This is not to say your son is being an ass.  I don't think it sounds that bad.  Sounds like maybe they just don't have enough in common or something.

 

 

[Snickerdoodle]

Well if her son said no to the wrestling it isn't up to your son to qualify this other boy's response.     

[lispy]

I think the "yeah, because his mom would freak out" would be a bit offensive on two counts...one, it could be taken as, "he's a big baby", but also, it may have ruffled the boy's feathers because he took it as a jab to his mother, as in, "his mom is a crazy overprotective loony person" (she may be???---but either way...you just don't talk about my momma, ya know?

 

As far as not accepting the apology, I don't know.  That seems a bit odd, but there may be something there I'm missing.

 

But, in general, I think this is the age where long time "friends" start to drift apart (or even abruptly change the direction of the relationship).  Most young kids are friends because their parents are friends (or at least because the parents have been the ones initiating the relationship).  When they get to this age, they start coming into their own, and making their own friends, at the same time realizing they are only friends with this other person because of my mom, not because of anything we had in common.  So some of that may be coming in to play here as well.  He may just feel that they aren't friend material, and doesn't know how to express it yet, so he's come up with a "reason" not to play.

[kwg]

Maybe not the one thing in and of itself, but little comments like that add up. 

 

It upsets me just reading it really.  I am sensitive though. 

 

This is not to say your son is being an ass.  I don't think it sounds that bad.  Sounds like maybe they just don't have enough in common or something.

They do, but I am not sure there have been that much...could be and I do not know it though. Since she mentioned it a while back that hers thought mine was mean there must be.  But she could not tell me HOW he was being mean or what he said.  I think they do not have much in common which is why I am thinking I do not care about preserving the friendship per se.  

 

Well if her son said no to the wrestling it isn't up to your son to qualify this other boy's response.     

yes!  So what is that? being bossy? insensitive to how someone else might feel.  

 

Here is the thing- I will bring it up to him and he will cry bc he did not mean it. 

[kwg]

I think the "yeah, because his mom would freak out" would be a bit offensive on two counts...one, it could be taken as, "he's a big baby", but also, it may have ruffled the boy's feathers because he took it as a jab to his mother, as in, "his mom is a crazy overprotective loony person" (she may be???---but either way...you just don't talk about my momma, ya know?

 

As far as not accepting the apology, I don't know.  That seems a bit odd, but there may be something there I'm missing.

 

But, in general, I think this is the age where long time "friends" start to drift apart (or even abruptly change the direction of the relationship).  Most young kids are friends because their parents are friends (or at least because the parents have been the ones initiating the relationship).  When they get to this age, they start coming into their own, and making their own friends, at the same time realizing they are only friends with this other person because of my mom, not because of anything we had in common.  So some of that may be coming in to play here as well.  He may just feel that they aren't friend material, and doesn't know how to express it yet, so he's come up with a "reason" not to play.

 

 

Yeah, that may be it.  They have very different interests.

 

Neither of her boys will let something go easily and they will also not give forgiveness. It is something all the kids in our group have told me.  

[8circles]

OK, here's my take on it. My oldest is still 11 so who knows how much its worth.

 

I don't think you can determine much of anything with this example. I don't actually think that there anything wrong with what he said about the other boy's getting mad. I mean, it sounds like its true and it isn't an insult or anything. It could have been said in a snotty way so I guess that's what I would work with.

 

But honestly, it sounds to me like there's more to it. It just seems like if your son is really being mean, there'd be a better example.

 

That being said, it doesn't sound like these 2 kids mesh very well and that's OK, too. I would definitely talk to my son about how to say things nicely and point out that not everything needs to be said. I guess I'd also mention not to talk about anyone else's mother? Idk, that's new to me.

[Jean in Newcastle]

That really is the age when kids start to work things out themselves or drift apart.  Sometimes it is especially hard in families where there are matched sibling sets because while one pair might drift apart, the others might not (as appears to be the case here).  So what's the answer?  Do you force the pair who are drifting apart to play together?  I think it might be better to just have the younger boys get together or to get together at places like a park or a science center etc. where interaction isn't always required.  

[catz]

I think kids in this age range are just still learning social niceities.  I can totally see a 12 year old blurting that out off the cuff without thinking about it hurting someone's feelings after the incident you had.  I can see another kid in that age range feeling hurt for being called out on it.  As a parent, I do tell my kids, hey sometimes kids (including you) say things in not the best way.   We work to not take that stuff personally. Have you seen the article going around how age 12 is like second toddlerhood?  It does sound like maybe they're just growing apart which can happen at that age.  On the other hand, I think the other parent could be more helpful and could have been more forthcoming.  It really could all be the result of a misunderstanding spun out of control.  I wouldn't necessarily deny younger ALL the time and I'd be looking for some new, maybe older kid kind of outlets for your 12 year old.  While continuing to reinforce social niceties. 

 

I am finding junior high age drama difficult to deal with here too.  :grouphug:

 

I think kids in this age range are just still learning social niceities.  I can totally see a 12 year old blurting that out off the cuff without thinking about it hurting someone's feelings after the incident you had.  I can see another kid in that age range feeling hurt for being called out on it.  As a parent, I do tell my kids, hey sometimes kids (including you) say things in not the best way.   We work to not take that stuff personally. Have you seen the article going around how age 12 is like second toddlerhood?  It does sound like maybe they're just growing apart which can happen at that age.  On the other hand, I think the other parent could be more helpful and could have been more forthcoming.  It really could all be the result of a misunderstanding spun out of control.  I wouldn't necessarily deny younger ALL the time and I'd be looking for some new, maybe older kid kind of outlets for your 12 year old.  While continuing to reinforce social niceties with your older. 

 

I am finding junior high age drama difficult to deal with here too.  :grouphug:

[Snickerdoodle]

 

 

 

yes!  So what is that? being bossy? insensitive to how someone else might feel.  

 

Here is the thing- I will bring it up to him and he will cry bc he did not mean it. 

 

It's not bossy.   It's time and place for appropriate comments. 

 

Imagine this scenario:

 

Group:  Let's order pizza

Me:   No

11yo:   Yeah my mom would never eat pizza cuz she's a health freak.

 

 

See?  It's not the time or place for my 11yo to qualify my response.     It comes across as belittling or cutting in some way no matter how you view it.   It puts me on the defensive.

[Snickerdoodle]

The tweenie age is a very hard age... so don't feel like you're the only one.   It seems like if it's not one thing it's another.  :grouphug:

[kwg]

OK, here's my take on it. My oldest is still 11 so who knows how much its worth.

 

I don't think you can determine much of anything with this example. I don't actually think that there anything wrong with what he said about the other boy's getting mad. I mean, it sounds like its true and it isn't an insult or anything. It could have been said in a snotty way so I guess that's what I would work with.

 

But honestly, it sounds to me like there's more to it. It just seems like if your son is really being mean, there'd be a better example.

 

That being said, it doesn't sound like these 2 kids mesh very well and that's OK, too. I would definitely talk to my son about how to say things nicely and point out that not everything needs to be said. I guess I'd also mention not to talk about anyone else's mother? Idk, that's new to me.

 

Maybe it is like what a PP said and it is a build up of little comments like this. That has to be it bc she could not give me any other examples and ds is really not mean.  

That really is the age when kids start to work things out themselves or drift apart.  Sometimes it is especially hard in families where there are matched sibling sets because while one pair might drift apart, the others might not (as appears to be the case here).  So what's the answer?  Do you force the pair who are drifting apart to play together?  I think it might be better to just have the younger boys get together or to get together at places like a park or a science center etc. where interaction isn't always required.  

 

I think they are drifting and I am with you, no forcing!  Science centers etc are a good idea.

 

I think kids in this age range are just still learning social niceities.  I can totally see a 12 year old blurting that out off the cuff without thinking about it hurting someone's feelings after the incident you had.  I can see another kid in that age range feeling hurt for being called out on it.  As a parent, I do tell my kids, hey sometimes kids (including you) say things in not the best way.   We work to not take that stuff personally. Have you seen the article going around how age 12 is like second toddlerhood?  It does sound like maybe they're just growing apart which can happen at that age.  On the other hand, I think the other parent could be more helpful and could have been more forthcoming.  It really could all be the result of a misunderstanding spun out of control.  I wouldn't necessarily deny younger ALL the time and I'd be looking for some new, maybe older kid kind of outlets for your 12 year old.  While continuing to reinforce social niceties with your older. 

 

I am finding junior high age drama difficult to deal with here too.  :grouphug:

 

Thank you for understanding and giving me a way to bring it up.  This is a hard age. I think I have that article on board to read. Adding in case anyone else is interested and has not seen it. Plus if it is the wrong one lol http://boingboing.net/2015/03/24/how-being-12-is-a-second-toddl.html

[kwg]

It's not bossy.   It's time and place for appropriate comments. 

 

Imagine this scenario:

 

Group:  Let's order pizza

Me:   No

11yo:   Yeah my mom would never eat pizza cuz she's a health freak.

 

 

See?  It's not the time or place for my 11yo to qualify my response.     It comes across as belittling or cutting in some way no matter how you view it.   It puts me on the defensive.

Yes. That is it. I can see ds doing that..albeit unintentionally.  He can be sarcastic and I completely blame dh for that.  :mad:

 

The tweenie age is a very hard age... so don't feel like you're the only one.   It seems like if it's not one thing it's another.  :grouphug:

It is hard!  :(

[lispy]

They do, but I am not sure there have been that much...could be and I do not know it though. Since she mentioned it a while back that hers thought mine was mean there must be.  But she could not tell me HOW he was being mean or what he said.  I think they do not have much in common which is why I am thinking I do not care about preserving the friendship per se.  

 

yes!  So what is that? being bossy? insensitive to how someone else might feel.  

 

Here is the thing- I will bring it up to him and he will cry bc he did not mean it. 

 

 

Yes. That is it. I can see ds doing that..albeit unintentionally.  He can be sarcastic and I completely blame dh for that.  :mad:

 

It is hard!  :(

It is definitely hard!   My ds was (still is) just like this.....very sensitive, and so sympathetic to others feelings.  He was the kid that would go play with the "outsider" because he felt bad for anyone to be left out.  At the same time, he had no clue how some of the things he said could hurt someone's feelings.  And I couldn't even blame dh---had to blame myself also :huh: .  Our family culture is quite sarcastic, and it took a long time of going over various conversations before he understood when the joking around/sarcasm is appropriate and when it is not.  He is 14 now, and still has plenty of times he speaks before he thinks, but at least now he does understand that not everyone appreciates his sense of humor. 

[Catwoman]

If your ds is sarcastic and the other kid is very sensitive, they may not be a good match in terms of maintaining a friendship unless your ds learns to behave differently.

 

I would probably think your ds was funny and realize he was joking, but I can understand how the other kid and his mom would view him as mean. Unfortunately, many other people will perceive him in the same way if he doesn't either tone it down or change his delivery so everyone knows he is kidding -- it's not a matter of changing his personality; it is about knowing how to behave socially so people won't be offended.

 

It's obvious that your ds doesn't intend to be mean, so I don't think it will be too difficult to help him become more aware of the kinds of comments that might upset other people so he can avoid making them. I think you need to be diligent about letting him know when he makes jokes that sound mean-spirited or that could be hurtful to his friends. If he is with like-minded people, he can get away with more sarcasm, but if he wants to be with a friend who is more sensitive, he should know how to be more considerate of the kid's feelings.

[kiwik]

That comment sounds like the sort of things teenage boys say. Teenage boys have a come back usually though and older kids don't. Can you plan the younger kid's playdates while the other is busy?

[Joyofsixreboot]

I try to stay far out of this stuff. The most I would say to my kids is " It seems you hurt Bob's feelings. Maybe you should talk about it." Kids don't have to be friends because sibs and moms are. It's convenient but not always possible. A simple " your personalities just don't mesh." Is all the explanation that needs. Surely we've all wanted to be friends with those who chose not to be and vice versa.

[Mandylubug]

I'd question how close I am with Mom if you had to approach her about some on going rift between the boys.

 

i have a good friend that has a son that is good friends with my 11 and 12 yo boys. There have been several instances that I have asked "uh oh what happened?" And vice versa. We discuss what happened but usually leave it to the boys to work it out.

 

Eta: I'd stop forcing a match up. I'd have to explain to DS that friends sometimes fade away. Does he have other friends? If not, I would encourage a new hobby or extracurricular.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I have some thoughts but I'm afraid they might come out wrong. They are meant to be helpful, though. I had a misunderstanding with a friend once and although we are both sensitive people, she could not *get* why I was so upset. Even after explaining, I was dismissed as being too demanding or needy or something. It was exhausting to have to explain myself over and over until I finally gave up. So that may be coloring my interpretation of this scenario...

 

I think your friend's son was embarrassed by the comment (looks like a "mama's boy"). I think the comment was unflattering to the mom. So it upset two people. She may not come right out and tell you this, but that is my take. IF that is the case, she is probably annoyed that you did not acknowledge that and then proceeded to fixate on the fact that, "well, it's true. You don't want him to wrestle." True/false was not the thing up for debate. Mean or not funny was. She probably didn't outright call your child mean but pointed out the lack of humor thing as a way to illustrate that her son is not amused by his quips. It's easier to just avoid someone that is upsetting you than have to point out that their comments bother you. I doubt young boys want to admit to their peers when comments bother them. Her son probably doesn't like confrontation.

 

As for not acknowledging the apology, I'm not quite sure what's going on there. Perhaps the boy was embarrassed in front of an audience either during or after the event. Was the apology private or in front of others? I think he should accept the apology. Probably his ego was hurt.

 

To me the solution is don't make comments that sound embarrassing, at least not around friends that share this type of dynamic. Some friends exchange zingers all the time but it doesn't sound like this pair does. Also, the audience could be a factor. A crush in earshot, etc. can affect one's reaction.

 

Of course, maybe very little of this matters right now and her son is just withdrawing from everyone.

 

Sorry about your grandmother.

 

Yeah I would not have taken it as a matter of fact comment like the color of someone's hair or their age. 

 

I have made no wrestling rules in some situations because every time there was wrestling someone got very hurt.  Every single time.  And believe me, that's a lot more awkward than saying no to wrestling.  I'm a big girl.  I would not be hurt by that comment, but I'd be upset for my kid. 

 

 

[Guest]

IME, this is the age when kids start defining friendships according to their own desires. They no longer make friends based mostly on the moms matching them up. It was hard for me when my DD drifted away from a girl whom she had been friends with since they were Kindys. I was very good friends with the mom! They also had a younger boy, but that boy and my son never really clicked at all. So, it ocurred to me that I can be friends with the mom, but the kids are not interested in being/remaining friends.

 

In the case the OP describes, it sounds like the boys are not a match anymore. I would quit attempting to match them up. Let ds know that it is okay to go in a different direction; people grow to want different things and that is okay. I don't think it was the nicest thing what he said about not wrestling, but I also don't think it means he will turn into a boiling jerk. Kids that age are still learning the Rules and often say or do crass things.

[kwg]

I have some thoughts but I'm afraid they might come out wrong. They are meant to be helpful, though. I had a misunderstanding with a friend once and although we are both sensitive people, she could not *get* why I was so upset. Even after explaining, I was dismissed as being too demanding or needy or something. It was exhausting to have to explain myself over and over until I finally gave up. So that may be coloring my interpretation of this scenario...

 

I think your friend's son was embarrassed by the comment (looks like a "mama's boy"). I think the comment was unflattering to the mom. So it upset two people. She may not come right out and tell you this, but that is my take. IF that is the case, she is probably annoyed that you did not acknowledge that and then proceeded to fixate on the fact that, "well, it's true. You don't want him to wrestle." True/false was not the thing up for debate. Mean or not funny was. She probably didn't outright call your child mean but pointed out the lack of humor thing as a way to illustrate that her son is not amused by his quips. It's easier to just avoid someone that is upsetting you than have to point out that their comments bother you. I doubt young boys want to admit to their peers when comments bother them. Her son probably doesn't like confrontation.

 

As for not acknowledging the apology, I'm not quite sure what's going on there. Perhaps the boy was embarrassed in front of an audience either during or after the event. Was the apology private or in front of others? I think he should accept the apology. Probably his ego was hurt.

 

To me the solution is don't make comments that sound embarrassing, at least not around friends that share this type of dynamic. Some friends exchange zingers all the time but it doesn't sound like this pair does. Also, the audience could be a factor. A crush in earshot, etc. can affect one's reaction.

 

Of course, maybe very little of this matters right now and her son is just withdrawing from everyone.

 

Sorry about your grandmother.

 

No, I got you and your words did not come out wrong. It actually did not occur to me that the freak out comment part would be a problem.  We talk that here a lot; I can hear myself saying "people clean this up or I will freak out" - so anyway I apologized for that to her this morning on chat.  SHe said well, I guess I kinda did but was hoping it could be  seen more like spoken with "great volume" 

 

lol. Guess no one is perfect. 

[kwg]

I try to stay far out of this stuff. The most I would say to my kids is " It seems you hurt Bob's feelings. Maybe you should talk about it." Kids don't have to be friends because sibs and moms are. It's convenient but not always possible. A simple " your personalities just don't mesh." Is all the explanation that needs. Surely we've all wanted to be friends with those who chose not to be and vice versa.

 

Good idea.  

I'd question how close I am with Mom if you had to approach her about some on going rift between the boys.

 

i have a good friend that has a son that is good friends with my 11 and 12 yo boys. There have been several instances that I have asked "uh oh what happened?" And vice versa. We discuss what happened but usually leave it to the boys to work it out.

 

Eta: I'd stop forcing a match up. I'd have to explain to DS that friends sometimes fade away. Does he have other friends? If not, I would encourage a new hobby or extracurricular.

Yeah we have not been forcing but there are times -bday parties and stuff where they will have to get along.  He has other friends and I am trying to get him out more, this was just an issue bc the younger boys would play.  I think they can get together when my ds is doing other things.

[kwg]

IME, this is the age when kids start defining friendships according to their own desires. They no longer make friends based mostly on the moms matching them up. It was hard for me when my DD drifted away from a girl whom she had been friends with since they were Kindys. I was very good friends with the mom! They also had a younger boy, but that boy and my son never really clicked at all. So, it ocurred to me that I can be friends with the mom, but the kids are not interested in being/remaining friends.

 

In the case the OP describes, it sounds like the boys are not a match anymore. I would quit attempting to match them up. Let ds know that it is okay to go in a different direction; people grow to want different things and that is okay. I don't think it was the nicest thing what he said about not wrestling, but I also don't think it means he will turn into a boiling jerk. Kids that age are still learning the Rules and often say or do crass things.

 

Yeah they have been friends since K.  Thanks for your words.  We are going to work on the crassness and knowing your audience so to speak.  Kids. ha! People.

[OneStepAtATime]

Good luck, OP.  

[fairfarmhand]

My family are teasers and somewhat sarcastic. I've had to remind my kids that not everyone likes that kind of humor. I tell them to watch their audience for cues that their remarks are not appreciated because "If it's not fun for everyone it's not fun for anyone." In other words, we don't get our jollies by making other people uncomfortable, embarrassed or upset. If I say something that is hurtful, even if my intention wasn't to hurt, it is still on me. I was in the wrong. Don't make this about "that boy is too sensitive."  Because all of us have been hurt and had our hurts minimized by comments like "You're taking yourself too seriously." or "I was just kidding."

 

Tell your son that it might be a good idea for him to apologize for his thoughtlessness at some time in the future. Just saying "My family jokes around in ways that you don't like and while I didn't mean to hurt you, I think I probably did, and I am sorry. I'll try to not do that again."

 

My girls have dealt with this same kinds of thing. You know what? Sometimes, things come back around as the kids grow and mature. The 11, 12, 13 yo ages are hard because the kids are facing different growing pains at different times. Some kids are very sensitive about certain things, while others have outgrown or not reached that point and words are said and feelings hurt. I've seen with my kids though that as the kids grow past the awkwardness and learn some better social skills, they can come back together. While most of the time, they don't end up being "best buddies." or even good friends, they can enjoy one another's company in ways that at 12 they couldn't have imagined. Both of my girls have several friendships that have developed this way, so take heart!

[LucyStoner]

I think one of the potential pitfalls of homeschooling is parents getting overly involved in their middle school child's social life. I've found myself verging on getting too involved, it's easy to do when a parent is nearly always there (at co-op, at field trips, at park day). I would encourage you to step back and see if the boys stay friends or not. Not everyone likes everyone. There is a boy we have homeschool classes with where there is some genuine animosity between him and my son and my son's best friend. and that's ok. That's just how life is. As long as no one is getting physically violent or bullying, I stay out of it.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think one of the potential pitfalls of homeschooling is parents getting overly involved in their middle school child's social life. I've found myself verging on getting too involved, it's easy to do when a parent is nearly always there (at co-op, at field trips, at park day). I would encourage you to step back and see if the boys stay friends or not. Not everyone likes everyone. There is a boy we have homeschool classes with where there is some genuine animosity between him and my son and my son's best friend. and that's ok. That's just how life is. As long as no one is getting physically violent or bullying, I stay out of it.

 

I often feel the need to get more involved I guess because frankly I feel guilty.  There are so few opportunities for making friends given our circumstances that when stuff doesn't work out I feel the need to do something.  I don't micromanage or anything like that and 9 out of 10 times I don't say anything, but I admit this is harder than heck.  And I'm often baffled by why kids who got along for years suddenly turn nasty towards each other. 

[kwg]

well right now I am feeling like I will actively avoid these two boys getting together for a while.  My ds got upset with me and cried which I knew he would so I put dh on it for follow  up. He said he did and he just meant it as a "give the guy a break his *mom* said no-he can't wrestle so moving on guys let's pick somethng else to do " kind of way. e was not trying to make a joke, be mean or anything other than try to figure out something the 4 boys could do.

 

I feel bad for accusing him of sarcasm and for even bring it up.

 

 

[kwg]

I think one of the potential pitfalls of homeschooling is parents getting overly involved in their middle school child's social life. I've found myself verging on getting too involved, it's easy to do when a parent is nearly always there (at co-op, at field trips, at park day). I would encourage you to step back and see if the boys stay friends or not. Not everyone likes everyone. There is a boy we have homeschool classes with where there is some genuine animosity between him and my son and my son's best friend. and that's ok. That's just how life is. As long as no one is getting physically violent or bullying, I stay out of it.

 

 

I think you are right. I was panicking my son was turning into a jerk but I need to just correct him when I see it I think.  I was not worried about whether they stayed friends just whether my kid was being mean.

 

You are right, some people just do not get along.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I do think that as moms we need to back off sometimes and let kids work it out even if there are some bumps along the way.  At this point though perhaps some time watching something fun on t.v. or doing a computer game together or going out for frozen yogurt will make things a bit better for all of you.  

[Tsuga]

I'm also in the let them grow apart camp.

 

I also think it would be amazing to find an 11-year-old boy or girl who didn't make a number of social gaffes along the way. I think one or two things would have less significance in school when you're there 35 hours a week together, so you can make it up. If it's just a few times a month, one or two things can have a big effect on your relationship.

 

So your son's comment, while inappropriate, was not a big deal, happens to ALL kids at some time or another (really, even the sensitive ones). But given that he doesn't see his friend really often, it probably seemed more telling of your son's personality than it really is.

 

Be sure to let him know that social misunderstandings are totally normal and even the best people say things that come off wrong and it happens to everyone!

[zoobie]

well right now I am feeling like I will actively avoid these two boys getting together for a while. My ds got upset with me and cried which I knew he would so I put dh on it for follow up. He said he did and he just meant it as a "give the guy a break his *mom* said no-he can't wrestle so moving on guys let's pick somethng else to do " kind of way. e was not trying to make a joke, be mean or anything other than try to figure out something the 4 boys could do.

 

I feel bad for accusing him of sarcasm and for even bring it up.

I'd definitely back off. I would've assumed he meant it the way he said he did, FWIW. Saying "Bob can't wrestle because his mom will freak out" isn't mean. The boy's mom will, in fact, freak out if he wrestles. That's not deragatory or sarcastic (not sure how it could be seen as sarcasm?). It's normal, conversational tween/teen language. The boy may have been embarrassed by the situation, but that's because of the situation and not your son's statement. They may blame the statement, but it doesn't make it true. Remove him entirely. The boy didn't want to or wasn't allowed to participate in the group activity. He was feeling awkward and left out and embarrassed.

 

Your son apologized for hurting him. That's all he can do. The kid's mom said herself that her DS is feeling "prickly" and doesn't want to join in much. Respect that. Encourage other friendships for your DS. It's okay for them to grow apart. It doesn't mean your son is a bad guy.

[8circles]

well right now I am feeling like I will actively avoid these two boys getting together for a while. My ds got upset with me and cried which I knew he would so I put dh on it for follow up. He said he did and he just meant it as a "give the guy a break his *mom* said no-he can't wrestle so moving on guys let's pick somethng else to do " kind of way. e was not trying to make a joke, be mean or anything other than try to figure out something the 4 boys could do.

 

I feel bad for accusing him of sarcasm and for even bring it up.

That's exactly how I thought it was said. IME, it would be more likely that the other boy probably felt embarrassed anyway and kind-of used your son as the scapegoat.