Islamist wants to see shari law in America and Europe

[albeto.]

 But yes, there are indeed neighborhoods in european cities where gays and "improperly dressed" or "improperly accompanied" women are harassed and bullied or outright attacked. It's a sad state of affairs.

 

So is this what people are referring to with the "no-go zones" or whatever it's called? 

[TechWife]

Has anyone else seen this? Frightening, hey?

 

 

No, as a committed Christian, I don't find this frightening.  As a believer, we are specifically called not to be anxious, to make requests known to God and we will have His peace in Christ Jesus. It is not possible to do this and to live in fear.  Additionally, we are told what we are supposed to spend our energy and time thinking about, and fear is not on the list! We are to discipline our  minds so that we spend our time on what He has called us to do.  

 

His word states, in Philippians 4;6-8 

Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus. Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good report, if there is any excellence and if anything is worthy of praise, dwell on these things. 

[albeto.]

No, as a committed Christian, I don't find this frightening.  As a believer, we are specifically called not to be anxious, to make requests known to God and we will have His peace in Christ Jesus. It is not possible to do this and to live in fear.  Additionally, we are told what we are supposed to spend our energy and time thinking about, and fear is not on the list! We are to discipline our  minds so that we spend our time on what He has called us to do.  

 

His word states, in Philippians 4;6-8 

Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus. Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good report, if there is any excellence and if anything is worthy of praise, dwell on these things. 

 

Apropos to nothing with this conversation, my sister once tried to convince me I wasn't a Christian because I worried about my special needs kid, using this verse as proof.

 

Worry = not really trusting Jesus = don't really believe = not Real Christian. 

 

  :rolleyes:

[umsami]

I'm sure that Al Azhar means nothing to the ISIS folks, but they released a fatwa banning the demolition of ancient artifacts.  (Al Azhar is usually viewed as kind of like the Harvard of Islamic learning/education for Sunni Islam.)  

 

http://www.tnnegypt.com/al-azhar-releases-fatwa-condemning-the-destruction-of-artefacts/

 

"Al-Azhar, which is considered the foremost authority on Sunni Islam, called the Islamic State’s actions a crime against humanity, given the global cultural value attached to these items. The institute dismissed Islamic State’s classification of the items as “idolsâ€.

“These artefacts have important cultural and historical significance,†Al-Azhar said in an official statement. “They are an important part of our collective legacy that must not be harmed.â€

Al-Azhar’s comments came shortly after Islamic State militants bulldozed the ancient Assyrian city of Nimrud, destroying many of its artefacts.

The institute also condemned the Islamic State for its hypocrisy, given that the group refers to the artefacts as false idols while also profiting heavily from their sale on the black market...."

[Jasperstone]

Guys, can I just add that being concerned with something that has been drawn to my attention, doesn't mean I sit there dwelling on it daily.

 

Something can horrify you for a few minutes, but you don't necessarily go running around in horror flapping your arms etc...

 

Yes, I'm concerned, but I don't need medication over it, as some have made it sound like I do.

[Jasperstone]

Most of the "scary" stuff is happening in europe, not the US, so in that respect americans don't need to worry. But yes, there are indeed neighborhoods in european cities where gays and "improperly dressed" or "improperly accompanied" women are harassed and bullied or outright attacked. It's a sad state of affairs.

 

The closest americans have come to sharia law is that some courts will recognize the authority of religious courts in civil cases, usually cases involving divorce, domestic violence, women's issue stuff. You see this happen in orthodox (jewish) communities as well where beit din decisions are upheld in civil courts. Unfortunately it's usually women who suffer in these situations.

 

But for your average american it isn't an issue that will affect them. I do feel terrible for gays in the affected areas. Imagine the terror they feel.

I'm sure the people in Europe used to think that they were safe, and it wouldnt happen there either.

 

My main point is that it's creeping in, and by putting our heads in the sand, it isn't going to go away....

 

It can't hurt to stay alert. ;-)

[Jasperstone]

Also, to those posters that kept harping that I wrote 'USA' in the thread.... First of all- that was that nutter's 'own' words. And when I said- "it's frightening", I meant that I was concerned for *us * all in democratic societies.

 

--------------------------------------------------

 

Could I please just ask that you refrain from belittling, and calling me a bigot, as well?

[Tanaqui]

I'm sure the people in Europe used to think that they were safe, and it wouldnt happen there either.

 

People in Europe overwhelmingly ARE safe. Most terrorism in Europe IS NOT caused by Muslims, or religiously motivated. However, most Europeans will never be affected personally by terrorism.

 

Guys, can I just add that being concerned with something that has been drawn to my attention, doesn't mean I sit there dwelling on it daily

 

There's a world of options between "dwelling on it daily" and "only paying attention to the most scandalous headlines when they get emailed to me". For example, there's careful and reasoned research using reputable sources.

 

My main point is that it's creeping in, and by putting our heads in the sand, it isn't going to go away....

 

I'm more scared of the tendency I see in the West of racism and xenophobia. Pegida? Breitbart, drumming up fear against those scary brown non-Christians? Anti-Semitism - which always seems to be conveniently blamed on "the Muslims" even though I see no evidence that they're behind *all* of it.

 

I'm more concerned with the tendency to use that trend to create justifications and rationalization for endless law and a creeping surveillance state.

 

Something's creeping in, and it isn't shariah law.

[umsami]

Jasperstone, I don't think you're a bigot.

 

I only focused on the US bit because of the guy's plan to bring "shariah" law here...and its difficulties.

 

I just read an article in the NY Times about the difficulties of being a Muslim kid in NYC public schools...one of the most diverse in our country. (I realize you don't live in the States, though.)  

 

The following is just my hypothesis.  In reading about Muslims in Europe...specifically in France and the UK...there is definitely a feeling of being "other", of not fitting in, of being teased/bullied/harassed.   I'm sure that other plays a part in recruitment.  If I'm always made to feel that I'm not really French or not really British...then yes, I'm sure that I might want to identify with a state/country/movement where they tell me I will belong and matter.  I think fighting that otherness....by being more tolerant/inclusive...is one of the best ways to fight it.   Yes, NYC is diverse.  One would think it would be less of a problem there.  But as the article points out, the Islamophobia industry affects people even there.  The fact that usually when one hears about a Muslim in the US news, it is something negative.  The fact that it is still socially acceptable in the US to say things like Muslims shouldn't hold public office, or that their patriotism should be questioned, etc.  (Both were said by US presidential candidates.)    That only creates a feeling of "well, maybe America doesn't want me, so who does?"

 

Perhaps this will help.  To give you an idea of how effective the Islamophobia industry is, up until last November, I wore hijab and have worn it for 14 years.  When I fly, even I look twice at other Muslims in traditional dress.  Even though consciously I know that "real" terrorists would dress to fit in, not to stand out.  Even though I know that I'm not a terrorist, so why should I view them as one.  If I hear them speaking Arabic, I think...."geesh, couldn't you at least talk English in the airport" Even though they have every right to speak whatever language they want.   Even though I wonder, "hmmm....if they are planning something, will they tip me off so I can be safe? Fellow Muslim to Muslim?" I'm Muslim, and yet sometimes I feel prejudices myself against my fellow Muslims.  When most of what you hear is negative about one group, it's very difficult to overcome that...even on some level you know it is not rational.  But I still think it's worth trying...because alienating people, and blaming them because of their faith, only helps the radicals.  

 

And I could write pages on how differently I have been treated in the past few months since I removed hijab.

[Tanaqui]

 

I just read an article in the NY Times about the difficulties of being a Muslim kid in NYC public schools...one of the most diverse in our country. (I realize you don't live in the States, though.)

 

Although NYC is diverse on the whole, our schools are actually some of the most segregated in the nation, I'm sorry to say.

[Audrey]

So, those that say it's not concerning. What about this below?

 

 

 

 

Rumaysah and his Islamist confidants patrol the streets of East London, chastising British citizens for not complying with Islamic law. In a series of videos, they can be seen harassing women for inappropriate dress, rebuking men for drinking alcohol, and calling a man “dirty†on the suspicion that he is gay.

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

How are they getting away with this?

 

I don't know what your laws are in Australia or what they may be in the UK, but let me give you an equivalent example:

 

When I went to school at Oklahoma, there were street preachers on campus pretty much every day.  They were all loud and insulting to the students, but one in particular was rather famous -- Brother Jim -- for following women down the sidewalks, loudly decrying them as whores for wearing pants and getting an education.  He spent the majority of his time just calling everyone there sinners, whores, whore-mongers (he really loved that word!) and homosexuals (he liked versions of that one, too). 

 

He was, without doubt, a completely obnoxious ass.  However, he didn't touch anyone, he didn't call upon others to harm anyone and he didn't violate any profanity laws.  He was allowed to do this, by law, as long as he didn't break any laws.  I guess he never did because he was always there and might even still be for all I know.

 

I've lived in Canada now for nearly 20 years and I've encountered similar phenomena here -- although the opinions expressed were not religious, but rather cultural and political in nature. Again, no one was breaking any laws, even if what they had to say might have just as wacky as Brother Jim.

 

So this fellow, Rumaysan, may be doing the same type of thing as old Brother Jim.  As long as he doesn't violate any laws, why can't he go about his community spouting off his wackadoodle opinions, too?  Everyone else gets to spout off theirs just the same if they want.  It's a community/society issue.  We want to have certain freedoms -- like the freedom to have and express our opinions openly -- but we have to realise that other people have opinions, too, and some people are going to have some very offensive or ridiculous or obnoxious opinions.  The community/society can set limits for how citizens are allowed to express these opinions.  Some countries are very restrictive.  Others, like our Commonwealth countries, tend to allow a lot of freedom.  That's the trade off for being able to have the freedoms of thought and public expression that we do. 

 

 

[Catwoman]

Apropos to nothing with this conversation, my sister once tried to convince me I wasn't a Christian because I worried about my special needs kid, using this verse as proof.

 

Worry = not really trusting Jesus = don't really believe = not Real Christian.

 

:rolleyes:

If she said that while you still believed in your religion, it must have really hurt your feelings. :(

 

I think that was a mean thing for her to have said. I don't care how religious a person is; what parent doesn't worry about her child???

[MrsMommy]

Perhaps this will help.  To give you an idea of how effective the Islamophobia industry is, up until last November, I wore hijab and have worn it for 14 years.  When I fly, even I look twice at other Muslims in traditional dress.  Even though consciously I know that "real" terrorists would dress to fit in, not to stand out.  Even though I know that I'm not a terrorist, so why should I view them as one.  If I hear them speaking Arabic, I think...."geesh, couldn't you at least talk English in the airport" Even though they have every right to speak whatever language they want.   Even though I wonder, "hmmm....if they are planning something, will they tip me off so I can be safe? Fellow Muslim to Muslim?" I'm Muslim, and yet sometimes I feel prejudices myself against my fellow Muslims.  When most of what you hear is negative about one group, it's very difficult to overcome that...even on some level you know it is not rational.  But I still think it's worth trying...because alienating people, and blaming them because of their faith, only helps the radicals.  

 

And I could write pages on how differently I have been treated in the past few months since I removed hijab.

 

Thank you for sharing that. It really gave me a new perspective, and I appreciate it.

[Jasperstone]

Thank you Umsami for your respectful post.

 

I do understand that the majority of Muslims aren't extremists. And I feel for you that you have been mistreated in the past. I also think it's sweet that people defend you when they 'think' some postings are racist...

 

My posts of being concerned weren't directed at the 'general' Muslims, but only to those that want to implement their spin-off extreme religion onto eveyone etc... I hope that clears it for you, and you can read my posts without hearing me speaking about you in general. Sorry, that's not worded well.... I'm on my phone, and it's playing up, so rushing to post it etc...

 

Xx

 

 

 

 

 

The following is just my hypothesis. In reading about Muslims in Europe...specifically in France and the UK...there is definitely a feeling of being "other", of not fitting in, of being teased/bullied/harassed. I'm sure that other plays a part in recruitment. If I'm always made to feel that I'm not really French or not really British...then yes, I'm sure that I might want to identify with a state/country/movement where they tell me I will belong and matter. I think fighting that otherness....by being more tolerant/inclusive...is one of the best

 

Jasperstone, I don't think you're a bigot.

 

I only focused on the US bit because of the guy's plan to bring "shariah" law here...and its difficulties.

 

I just read an article in the NY Times about the difficulties of being a Muslim kid in NYC public schools...one of the most diverse in our country. (I realize you don't live in the States, though.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The following is just my hypothesis. In reading about Muslims in Europe...specifically in France and the UK...there is definitely a feeling of being "other", of not fitting in, of being teased/bullied/harassed. I'm sure that other plays a part in recruitment. If I'm always made to feel that I'm not really French or not really British...then yes, I'm sure that I might want to identify with a state/country/movement where they tell me I will belong and matter. I think fighting that otherness....by being more tolerant/inclusive...is one of the best ways to fight it. Yes, NYC is diverse. One would think it would be less of a problem there. But as the article points out, the Islamophobia industry affects people even there. The fact that usually when one hears about a Muslim in the US news, it is something negative. The fact that it is still socially acceptable in the US to say things like Muslims shouldn't hold public office, or that their patriotism should be questioned, etc. (Both were said by US presidential candidates.) That only creates a feeling of "well, maybe America doesn't want me, so who does?"

 

Perhaps this will help. To give you an idea of how effective the Islamophobia industry is, up until last November, I wore hijab and have worn it for 14 years. When I fly, even I look twice at other Muslims in traditional dress. Even though consciously I know that "real" terrorists would dress to fit in, not to stand out. Even though I know that I'm not a terrorist, so why should I view them as one. If I hear them speaking Arabic, I think...."geesh, couldn't you at least talk English in the airport" Even though they have every right to speak whatever language they want. Even though I wonder, "hmmm....if they are planning something, will they tip me off so I can be safe? Fellow Muslim to Muslim?" I'm Muslim, and yet sometimes I feel prejudices myself against my fellow Muslims. When most of what you hear is negative about one group, it's very difficult to overcome that...even on some level you know it is not rational. But I still think it's worth trying...because alienating people, and blaming them because of their faith, only helps the radicals.

 

And I could write pages on how differently I have been treated in the past few months since I removed hijab.

[Jasperstone]

Ahhhh... having trouble with the quotes. ...

[Jasperstone]

Given that another two teenage boys were caught today trying to leave from Sydney in an attempt to join IS, I won't be laughing about it any time soon. Sure, they're unlikely to kill me - but not only were they likely to put themselves in danger, they were going to go off and kill others...thank God they were prevented and their parents got them back. They've been charged, though.

 

I wonder what it is about these boys. Dd is on a very desegregated campus - by choice - and every second young woman there is in hijab. All these girls lived in the same areas as the boys, went to the same (largely ) public school system as the boys, dealt with probably MORE social injustice due to their head coverings - and yet they are at uni, calmly getting on with getting an education, while 150+ of their male peers are off to fight.

:-(

[Paige]

 

 People don't join radical movements - of any stripe! - because they're living sheltered, comfortable lives.

 

 

 

I don't completely agree. I think boredom, privilege, and the desire to do something different and meaningful are a dangerous combination if not channeled productively. I can't find any sources tonight on the demographics of radical movements, but I believe you'd see plenty of young and wealthy, and a whole lot more middle class!, among the members (and leaders) of all of the past radical movements who could have chosen to live perfectly comfortable lives.

 

The radical and revolutionary movements ways for younger people to feel powerful and important and different. I am in no way an ISIS apologist, but I think it would be a mistake to see people's attraction to radicalism as a sign that they weren't comfortable enough. There are always radicals from "good families."

 

A great politician would silently orchestrate and then renounce and condemn a radical movement every 20-30 yrs to attract the bored and privileged. It would channel their desire to rebel into a cause that produces little harm. It may be a little Machiavellian, but there's a predictable cycle of radical movements- good, bad, and neutral- over the past 200 years. The radicals who became known as the Suffragettes and Americans? Great. The ones who turned into ISIS and the French Revolution? Not so great. Robespierre and Usama Bin Laden were not lower class. I think a religious calling cannot be ignored for those who choose join ISIS. Perhaps offering younger people who yearn to do something powerful, important, and good an outlet for those desires that promises real results, seems revolutionary, and that doesn't involve terrorizing anyone would help. I think those who join ISIS wish to do good- nobody want to be a bad guy when they grow up. It's just that their concept of what is good has turned wrong. 

 

 

[TeacherZee]

As a European I am far more worried by right-wing extremists than I am of ISIS and their like

[brehon]

Audrey, I was at university the same time as you and also had the "privilege" of hearing Brother Jim or one of his relatives on UT's campus. Mostly it was laughable listening to him; but, he was, I assume, sincere in his beliefs. He'd position himself on West Mall right near the entrance to the Drag.

 

Sadie, we do have federal and (some) state hate laws in the US. The difference, however, is that generally one has to incite violence or harm to others. Verbally harassing people doesn't usually rise to the level of prosecutable action.

[Word Nerd]

We had Brother ____ at our campus as well--maybe it was Jed but I don't recall. The Westboro gang also visited once to picket a lecture. I remember being surprised that they seemed bored and nonconfrontational--not really preaching or saying much at all--though the signs they were holding were terrible.

[*Lulu*]

I have been thinking about this conversation a great deal and keep coming back to the image of Muslims surrounding Christians as they worship. As horrible as the violence and hate are, in the midst are these beautiful examples of compassion and love. I have to believe that if we are capable of such noble acts that there is still hope; humanity is capable of more.

[Negin]

Apropos to nothing with this conversation, my sister once tried to convince me I wasn't a Christian because I worried about my special needs kid, using this verse as proof.

 

Worry = not really trusting Jesus = don't really believe = not Real Christian. 

 

That's awful. I cannot stand that sort of guilt-trip mentality. 

 

Guys, can I just add that being concerned with something that has been drawn to my attention, doesn't mean I sit there dwelling on it daily.

 

Something can horrify you for a few minutes, but you don't necessarily go running around in horror flapping your arms etc...

 

Yes, I'm concerned, but I don't need medication over it, as some have made it sound like I do.

This. Same here. 

 

I'm sure the people in Europe used to think that they were safe, and it wouldnt happen there either.

 

My main point is that it's creeping in, and by putting our heads in the sand, it isn't going to go away....

 

It can't hurt to stay alert. ;-)

Fully agreeing once again. This is not going to go away. Not anytime soon. 

 

you'd see plenty of young and wealthy, and a whole lot more middle class!, among the members (and leaders) of all of the past radical movements who could have chosen to live perfectly comfortable lives.

True. 

[Negin]

As far as I can tell, there isn't a 'christian' group plotting terror at this time. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Has it happened in the past? Sure. But I'm looking at the present now, and what the future holds for my children.

:-(

 

I get that not all Muslims support this. And I'm not trying to pot stir. I'm just wary that these extremists will get their way if people just sit back and say it won't happen etc...

Jasperstone, you might find this infographic interesting. Some of it is quite disturbing, other parts are not surprising at all. For example, of those who support Sharia law, the global median who favor executing those who leave the Faith is 28%. 

 

I also liked this (few months old). 

[Negin]

You're wrong, Jasperstone.

 

But, as noted, within the past five years - which is pretty much the present day - Muslims have committed only a tiny, tiny minority of terrorist acts in the West.

 

Because it's not a realistic possibility where she lives. I'm not exactly "blase" about it either, but I'm not going to cower under my covers, no more than I cower in fear of a huge asteroid impact or the eruption of the Yellowstone supervolcano, or being shoved in front of a train at rush hour.

The link  you gave may be rather biased. It looks that way to me. Personally, I prefer this list of attacks by Muslims and this one by Christians - to me, they're more thorough and less biased. 

 

As Jasperstone already mentioned, I don't think she's exactly cowering under her covers. Many of us voice our concerns here. Few of us are consumed by any kind of fear 24/7. We should all support one another when voicing our concerns. Not referring to you at all - but concerns should not be called pot-stirring and they should also not be mocked. Just my humble opinion. No one should be treated rudely or called a bigot either. 

[albeto.]

If she said that while you still believed in your religion, it must have really hurt your feelings. :(

 

I think that was a mean thing for her to have said. I don't care how religious a person is; what parent doesn't worry about her child???

 

 

That's awful. I cannot stand that sort of guilt-trip mentality. 

 

It wasn't meant to elicit guilt or to be condescending or mean. It was offered in sincere compassion for a sister who was hurting. She genuinely believed that there was a way to heal this pain - the bible says so, and the bible says those who have faith can do all the things Jesus did, and greater still. A "spirit of peace" is not a thing you "do" but a thing you are "given." So why would she not want God to give this to me? Why would she not want me to know I can accept it? It was meant to be kind, and I took it as such. 

 

At the same time, these platitudes became more and more clearly empty as time went on. I came to realize that's all the could be offered. One either perceives their circumstances to be favorable or not, and then proceeds according to what they believe is appropriate with regard to the will and mind of their god. 

 

It's the same inspiration behind any religious behavior. 

 

It's why religion is untrustworthy as inspiration for a group or nation. Sincere belief can still lead to horrific behavior. As George Carlin said, "There may or may not be atheists in foxholes, but I'm certain there are none in the Ku Klux Klan."

 

Jasperstone, you might find this infographic interesting. Some of it is quite disturbing, other parts are not surprising at all. For example, of those who support Sharia law, the global median who favor executing those who leave the Faith is 28%. 

 

Interesting. I recall seeing the same information used in a critique of Reza Aslan's comments, probably the most popular proponent of No True Scotsman fallacy. They draw from another PewResearch link. The idea about Sharia law applying to non-Muslims in Muslim heavy countries is unsettling, which is why I think Sadie's idea is right on the money.

 

The thing the OP may not quite be considering enough here is that the United States and many European nations have created secularized governments specifically to prevent such a thing, regardless of how popular any religion is. It's why Christians who holler about persecution are being stinky hypocrites when they are the same ones hollering about encroaching Islam. Either religion is going to be the foundation of public policy (in which case you have to defer to the religion of the masses, even if it's not yours), or logical reasons and rational thought founded on principles of the Enlightenment is going to be the foundation of public policy (in which case your religion gets no special privileges, and will loose traditional privileges as they are identified as being unconstitutional). I am unsympathetic to demands for special privileges for one religion, while exposing the abuse inherent when another religion enjoys or demands special privileges. 

 

I think secularity could save the world  :)

 

No doubt. I can think of no policy that is worse off for invoking knowledge, logic, and rational thought as support over an appeal to divine authority or superstitious or mythological beliefs.

[albeto.]

As Jasperstone already mentioned, I don't think she's exactly cowering under her covers. Many of us voice our concerns here. Few of us are consumed by any kind of fear 24/7. We should all support one another when voicing our concerns. Not referring to you at all - but concerns should not be called pot-stirring and they should also not be mocked. Just my humble opinion. No one should be treated rudely or called a bigot either. 

 

The OP's threads have a distinct tone about them. This tone is fear. Fear of Big Government (medical kidnapping threads) and fear of encroaching Sharia Law. One need not be cowering under furniture to feel a pervasive sense of worry and fear. Ultimately, I don't like to assign intent to posts. We can't know what Jasper feels, but we can see the trend in what she posts. We can't know how she reacts at home, but we can see the trend in what she posts. Cowering under furniture is a colorful expression, but the intensity of any fear she may have is irrelevant to the question she posed in her OP. Some of us assume fear because of this trend and we want her to know relief. Fear and stress can be exhausting, crippling even, and can have long term negative consequences we don't want her to suffer if she can help it. That's why we offer our sympathies. That is supporting her.

 

Bigotry should be called out each and every time. As educators, we should be able to recognize it in the written word. It's part of the greater language arts skills our kids are counting on us to share with them. It should never be confused with calling a person a bigot. In this thread, I don't think it has (could be remembering incorrectly). Rudeness is relative. If one considers not validating genuine beliefs to be rude, this isn't the ideal place for them to share those beliefs. 

[idnib]

. 

 

[Negin]

It wasn't meant to elicit guilt or to be condescending or mean. It was offered in sincere compassion for a sister who was hurting. She genuinely believed that there was a way to heal this pain - the bible says so, and the bible says those who have faith can do all the things Jesus did, and greater still. A "spirit of peace" is not a thing you "do" but a thing you are "given." So why would she not want God to give this to me? Why would she not want me to know I can accept it? It was meant to be kind, and I took it as such. 

 

 

No time or energy to reply to your other post or the rest of this one. Hope to do so later. Sorry for misunderstanding your sister's intent. 

[albeto.]

No time or energy to reply to your other post or the rest of this one. Hope to do so later. Sorry for misunderstanding your sister's intent. 

 

No worries. I meant it only as a passing comment. I'm not upset. I'm not even a little bothered. It's all good. ^_^

[Jasperstone]

Albeto, regarding to the medical threat you keep bringing up- have you read 'Sarah's Last Wish?

 

Have you had a child in a serious condition in hospital, and the Dr's give your dear child the wrong medication?

 

And when you ask about the side effects, and the serious reaction your child is having to some of the medicines, they quickly cover-up everything, plus change the antibotic that was killing the infection, saying the reaction might be that instead.....When it was so obvious that it wasn't the antibiotic, but, they couldn't have just a 'mother of the patient' working out things before they do etc....... Thus, endangering your child by pulling the antibiotics as a punishment, or to confuse the findings.

(It's such a long and scary story, sorry if it's not making sense)

 

Have you had a family member be damaged (potentially life long) to a vaccine?

 

If not, then please stop trying to 'feel' sorry for me, and be 'concerned'about my fears. As, I have had personal experience there, and it's not unfounded at all.

 

ETA:

 

I share things coming from this place, because I don't want anyone to experience what we have gone through. It hurts so much to be mocked for caring. :'(

[TranquilMind]

Has anyone else seen this? Frightening, hey?

 

Islamist on CBS:

 

“I Want Every Woman in this Country Covered from Head to Toeâ€

 

 

 

 

Ultimately, I want to see every single woman in this country covered from head to toe,†Rumaysah told 60 Minutes correspondent Clarissa Ward. “I want to the see the hand of the thief cut. I want to see adulterers stoned to death. I want to see sharia law in Europe, and I want to see it in America, as well. I believe our patrols are a means to an end.â€

 

http://www.headlinepolitics.com/islamist-cbs-want-every-woman-country-covered-head-toe-watch/

Whack job.

Hope he does not get his wish. 

[TranquilMind]

The OP's threads have a distinct tone about them. This tone is fear. Fear of Big Government (medical kidnapping threads) and fear of encroaching Sharia Law. One need not be cowering under furniture to feel a pervasive sense of worry and fear. Ultimately, I don't like to assign intent to posts. We can't know what Jasper feels, but we can see the trend in what she posts. We can't know how she reacts at home, but we can see the trend in what she posts. Cowering under furniture is a colorful expression, but the intensity of any fear she may have is irrelevant to the question she posed in her OP. Some of us assume fear because of this trend and we want her to know relief. Fear and stress can be exhausting, crippling even, and can have long term negative consequences we don't want her to suffer if she can help it. That's why we offer our sympathies. That is supporting her.

 

Bigotry should be called out each and every time. As educators, we should be able to recognize it in the written word. It's part of the greater language arts skills our kids are counting on us to share with them. It should never be confused with calling a person a bigot. In this thread, I don't think it has (could be remembering incorrectly). Rudeness is relative. If one considers not validating genuine beliefs to be rude, this isn't the ideal place for them to share those beliefs. 

What you call "fear"  could also be interpreted as an "attention to detail in noticing patterns and trends".     I don't assume fear, without evidence of this fear.  (Going back to read rest of responses as it is possible I missed something important). 

 

Some people don't notice anything or are quick to dismiss anything that does not line up with their views.  Others are not, and take time to pay attention to increasing patterns.   Many missed the real estate crash and the Great Recession that is just now starting to change.  They weren't paying attention and ridiculed those who did....at first. 

 

Geez, there were people in Nazi Germany who thought everything was fine, and what the heck were people all riled up about?  The economy was improving!  The miscreants were disappearing!  Let the good times roll. 

 

Bigotry, seriously?   There ARE actually extremists lopping off heads, burning people in cages, and killing children, if you haven't noticed.  This is not "fear".  This is your evening news. 

[albeto.]

Albeto, have you read 'Sarah's Last Wish?

 

Have you had a child in a serious condition in hospital, and the Dr's give your dear child the wrong medication?

 

And when you ask about the side effects, and the serious reaction your child is having to some of the medicines, they quickly cover-up everything, plus change the antibotic that was killing the infection, saying the reaction might that instead.....When it was so obvious that it wasn't the antibiotic, but, they couldn't have just a mother of the patient working out things before they do etc....... Thus, endangering your child by pulling the antibiotics as a punishment, or to confuse the findings.

(It's such a long and scary story, sorry if it's not making sense)

 

Have you had a family member be damaged (potentially life long) to a vaccine?

 

If not, then please stop trying to 'feel' sorry for me, and be 'concerned'about my fears. As, I have had personal experience there, and it's not unfounded at all.

 

ETA:

 

I share things coming from this place, because I don't want anyone to experience what we have gone through. It hurts so much to be mocked for caring. :'(

 

I'm unsure how to respond to this. In what way is this related to anything I said, your Original Post, or this discussion in general?

 

My first reply to you was to explain I am taking you seriously. I am not mocking you. 

 

 

[albeto.]

 There ARE actually extremists lopping off heads, burning people in cages, and killing children, if you haven't noticed.  This is not "fear".  This is your evening news. 

 

No one disagrees. To answer the question in the OP, is it frightening to see on Muslim rant about Sharia Law in America and Europe, my answer is no. While the reasons are complex, none of the particular variables includes ignoring information or failure to notice these events. This thread is self explanatory as to why certain people have come to the conclusions they have regarding fearing Sharia Law coming to the United States or Europe. 

[Jasperstone]

I'm unsure how to respond to this. In what way is this related to anything I said, your Original Post, or this discussion in general?

 

My first reply to you was to explain I am taking you seriously. I am not mocking you.

I edited it after you quoted to clarify. It's about the Medical thread you have posted about over and over again.

 

You have tied it into this thread to *prove* I'm unstable and fearful of everything etc...

[Katy]

And I could write pages on how differently I have been treated in the past few months since I removed hijab.

 

I'm really curious about this...  What prompted removing it?  Fear of violence or a change in your faith or something practical?  How have things changed?

[albeto.]

I edited it after you quoted to clarify. It's about the Medical thread you have posted about over and over again.

 

You have tied it into this thread to *prove* I'm unstable and fearful of everything etc...

 

Thank you for the clarification. Now I understand what context you're placing this in.  

 

For my own sake to know to what you are referring, here are the posts I've contributed to this thread:

 

#104

#145 *

#148

#157

#159

#187

#190

#214

#215 *

#218

(subsequent threads following your comment)

 

I mentioned "medical kidnapping" twice. The first time to you (your recent threads seem to focus on Muslim terrorism and medical kidnapping) to explain why I'm not patronizing you, I genuinely sympathize with you. The second time was in reply to Negin's comment about being consumed by any kind of fear 24/7. 

 

Twice hardly counts as posting "over and over," and I think it's pretty clear that the reason I mentioned it was to support my comment about a general undercurrent of fear and anxiety that I (and I believe I'm not alone in this) gather from some of your latest threads. Further, it was to illustrate the reasons for this opinion so as to avoid the appearance of it coming out of left field. To suggest I tie unrelated threads together to prove instability on your part is bizarre to me. 

[Tanaqui]

Bigotry, seriously?   There ARE actually extremists lopping off heads, burning people in cages, and killing children, if you haven't noticed.  This is not "fear".  This is your evening news.

 

Sure. And those extremists are a small minority of Muslims who control a tiny portion of the habitable part of this planet. I'm more concerned about the Americans who condone or excuse torture than about ISIS - after all, I have to live in America.

[SemiSweet]

I am much more concerned about the right wing Christian movement that makes up a good portion of the population in the U.S. AND is repeatedly trying (sometimes successfully) to legislate their religion. It is interesting to me that the very same people who are so against sharia law are those who advocate making the U.S. a Christian nation with laws supporting their brand of religion.

[Negin]

If a non-Muslim woman visits Saudi, say as an expat, she is not expected to wear a hijab or niqab.  It might make her life easier, but the requirement does not hold for her to do so.

 

No, not a hijab or niqab, but, "women are advised to wear the abaya, a loose black dress covering the whole body. Wearing a veil is not required for non-Saudi, non-Muslim women, but you might want to carry a head scarf with you in case you are asked to cover your hair." And that's just Saudi. Different countries, different laws. I would hate to have to wear all that and love the Shah for banning all that. 

 

Oh, saw this and I was surprised to find out that in Lebanon, they're talking about Lebanese Christians joining ISIS. 

This doesn't surprise me one bit. I've had lots of Lebanese and Syrian Christian friends for most of my life. They tend to identify themselves as Arabs first and Christians second. They also tend to be anti-Ziionists. 

 

The fact that it is still socially acceptable in the US to say things like Muslims shouldn't hold public office

 

I wore hijab and have worn it for 14 years.  When I fly, even I look twice at other Muslims in traditional dress.  Even though consciously I know that "real" terrorists would dress to fit in, not to stand out.  Even though I know that I'm not a terrorist, so why should I view them as one.  If I hear them speaking Arabic, I think...."geesh, couldn't you at least talk English in the airport" Even though they have every right to speak whatever language they want.   Even though I wonder, "hmmm....if they are planning something, will they tip me off so I can be safe? Fellow Muslim to Muslim?" I'm Muslim, and yet sometimes I feel prejudices myself against my fellow Muslims.  When most of what you hear is negative about one group, it's very difficult to overcome that...even on some level you know it is not rational.  But I still think it's worth trying...because alienating people, and blaming them because of their faith, only helps the radicals.  

 

And I could write pages on how differently I have been treated in the past few months since I removed hijab.

But Muslims can hold public office, and as you may recall in the previous thread, atheists are far less likely to be able to. We all know that. Discrimination against atheists is heavily on the rise. 

 

How do you know if someone's a Muslim if they're not dressed as one or don't tell you? I may look like a Muslim, but I'm not one. Just because a person looks like they're from that part of the world, doesn't mean that they are. Personally, I'm not in favor of anyone being made to dress a certain way. I could write pages as to the dirty looks I've received from Muslims who think that I am one and probably question why I'm not covered up. One is obviously going to be treated differently when one chooses to wear a hijab or not, just as one would be treated differently if one wears one or not in a Muslim country (if they make it out alive in some parts). If someone wears a swastika, they'd be treated differently. If I go to the bank here dressed in a bikini, you better believe that I'd be treated differently.  

 

we can see the trend in what she posts. We can't know how she reacts at home, but we can see the trend in what she posts. 

This would apply to everyone. Who are we to judge the trend that each person posts? I remember someone booing and moaning a year or so ago (maybe it was more) as to why I so often post about exercise/health/diets. I kindly reminded her that she is not obligated to read my posts. Most of us have a recurring theme in our posts. Some defend Islam, some mistrust religion altogether, who cares? My thing is: don't read it if you don't like it; put the posts on Ignore/Hide; or just scroll down. Calling someone a bigot is quite harsh and not kind at all. 

 

If not, then please stop trying to 'feel' sorry for me, and be 'concerned'about my fears. 

:grouphug:

 

What you call "fear"  could also be interpreted as an "attention to detail in noticing patterns and trends".    

 

Some people don't notice anything or are quick to dismiss anything that does not line up with their views.  Others are not, and take time to pay attention to increasing patterns.   

 

Geez, there were people in Nazi Germany who thought everything was fine, and what the heck were people all riled up about?  The economy was improving!  The miscreants were disappearing!  Let the good times roll. 

 

Bigotry, seriously?   There ARE actually extremists lopping off heads, burning people in cages, and killing children, if you haven't noticed.  This is not "fear".  This is your evening news. 

:iagree:  and couldn't agree anymore. 

 

I am much more concerned about the right wing Christian movement that makes up a good portion of the population in the U.S. AND is repeatedly trying (sometimes successfully) to legislate their religion. It is interesting to me that the very same people who are so against sharia law are those who advocate making the U.S. a Christian nation with laws supporting their brand of religion.

Yes, I personally think that religion & politics are a bad mix. Always. Neither extreme is good. Nonetheless, last I checked, the right-wing Christian movement has not (quoting the above poster): "lopping off heads, burning people in cages, and killing children." 

[Jasperstone]

The OP's threads have a distinct tone about them

 

-------------------

 

Albeta, the majority of my posts are light- hearted. In the: "what's the best laundry powder?" range.

Well, maybe not "that' boring, but just as light. It's just that the posts that you are pointing out are of a deep and controversial matter, so they naturally stand out. Could it be that you read threads mainly with titles that have a bit more meaty subjects to them?

 

I probably post the most in that *thread game* so you could psychoanalysis me, and come to the conclusion that I don't take things seriously etc...

[TeacherZee]

 

Yes, I personally think that religion & politics are a bad mix. Always. Neither extreme is good. Nonetheless, last I checked, the right-wing Christian movement has not (quoting the above poster): "lopping off heads, burning people in cages, and killing children."

 

No but they too are discussing "modesty" and what one should wear. They are trying to legislate love. They are trying to legislate what I can do with MY body.

 

By and large the extremists within the muslim faith are not trying to legislate these issues they are doing it by force. I fear the right wing both Christian and non-Christian who are taking places in our parliaments more than the acts of mad men. If I die in a terrorist attack then so be it (it is far less likely than me being hit by a car) but the gradual chipping away or denying at the rights of certain groups is far more frightening. At least to me.

[Susan Wise Bauer]

Albeto and Jasperstone: please move on. Discuss the issue if you wish, but stop discussing each other.

[SemiSweet]

No but they too are discussing "modesty" and what one should wear. They are trying to legislate love. They are trying to legislate what I can do with MY body.

 

By and large the extremists within the muslim faith are not trying to legislate these issues they are doing it by force. I fear the right wing both Christian and non-Christian who are taking places in our parliaments more than the acts of mad men. If I die in a terrorist attack then so be it (it is far less likely than me being hit by a car) but the gradual chipping away or denying at the rights of certain groups is far more frightening. At least to me.

I completely agree. Some of the legislation that is being attempted lately makes me think of living in The Handmaid's Tale. There was just a case of some guy in California trying to legislate death for gays. IMO that kind of thing is just as serious because some of these nutjobs have money and people behind them to follow through with their crazy, even if it's not by force.

[Negin]

I worry about extremism. I worry about IS and their "brand" of Islam. But i don't worry about them affecting me here anywhere near as much as I worry for my Muslim sisters and brothers in the ME. Just as Muslims are victims of 95% of Muslim terrorism, they will bear the brunt of extremism too. :(

What's ME?

 

Umsami, I wanted to add that on a personal level, many of my relatives are Muslim (living in Iran & elsewhere). Like most Iranians, however, they're not particularly religious. Iranians oftentimes have a bit of a complicated relationship with Islam. It's very much connected to class and education levels. The higher one is on either of these categories, the less they tend to observe and practice Islam (for the most part & not always). Many are resentful of the extremism in Islam which they've experienced due to political reasons & missing the days of the Shah and greater freedom for women, etc. Many are resentful and consider Islam to be an Arab invasion. Lots of complicated history. Regardless, although the government of Iran is Muslim, most of the individuals that I have met live quite secular lifestyles. They identify themselves as Muslims, but that's about as far as most of the ones that I have met go. I know a handful that pray daily and observe Ramadan. I only distantly knew one that went on Pilgrimage to Mecca. Just interesting stuff that I thought to share. 

[TeacherZee]

What's ME?

 

 

Middle East

[Negin]

Middle East

Thanks :). I figured it out after my post, but wasn't close enough to a computer to edit. I wasn't fully alert when I first read and posted. 

[Jasperstone]

Thanks :). I figured it out after my post, but wasn't close enough to a computer to edit. I wasn't fully alert when I first read and posted.

I hate when that happens! I've awoken in the middle of the night's sleep thinking about something that needs editing, but have had to wait until morning. I probably would have gotten up to fix it, but if dh found out he'd suspect that I was having an affair or something, lol!!

[Negin]

 I probably would have gotten up to fix it, but if dh found out he'd suspect that I was having an affair or something, lol!!

:lol:

[Negin]

Unrelated, yet thought to share a link to the most recent Atlantic cover story. Sad, so very sad.