Why are so many college students failing to gain job skills before graduation?

[TammyS]

 

 

As a teen, I had limited involvement in extra curricular activities by today's standards (marching/symphonic band & one club). However, I worked around 30 hours per week during most months of the school year. My peers had a similar activity/work load, although most of them put in fewer hours at work.  We were on the college prep track. 

 

I think this is driven by an expectation (real or perceived, I'm not sure) that to get into college a kid needs to have not only good grades, but good grades in advanced classes, PLUS 2 extracurriculars and a volunteer position.  There is no time left for work.  I also worked in high school (at one point I had a 40hr week job M-F, and a 16 hr week job on weekends), but the result was no extracurriculars.

 

I think this expectation needs to be loosened to allow for all families to find the right balance/mix for themselves.

[Murphy101]

I think this is driven by an expectation (real or perceived, I'm not sure) that to get into college a kid needs to have not only good grades, but good grades in advanced classes, PLUS 2 extracurriculars and a volunteer position. There is no time left for work. I also worked in high school (at one point I had a 40hr week job M-F, and a 16 hr week job on weekends), but the result was no extracurriculars.

 

I think this expectation needs to be loosened to allow for all families to find the right balance/mix for themselves.

Not only do I think the expectation needs to be loosened, I think it's bunk.

 

The number of kids with good grades even in advanced classes, extracurriculars and volunteering are a dime a dozen. Even doing all that, most don't get anywhere near a full ride, right? Even with really low income families? Many don't get anywhere near enough. I'm not saying they don't get scholarships, they do. But so do lots of kids who don't do all that. And most in either camp surely don't get enough to not need to bring in some income? Right?

[MomtoCandJ]

The kids just need not to be babied and cuddled so much.

[In The Great White North]

 

 

The one thing that seems missing, at least in my corner of the world, is for pay work experience. Students who go to colleges now have not worked for their cars, their auto insurance, their brand name clothes or their college expenses. They have never had to punch a time clock and do what was expected of them because they have financial responsibilities. They have never had to get along with their coworkers because they were expected to do so. They have never had to figure out how to fix a mistake that they or another coworker made. They've not had to spend 30 minutes trying to fix a jammed copy machine because they had to do something someone else was counting on. They have never depended on anyone else to carry their own weight so that they could get their job done, nor have they had to make sure they do something correctly because their coworker was counting on them so they could get their own job done. They have never had to call in sick (I mean really sick), fix a flat tire on their way to work or any of the other seemingly small tasks associated with the working world. 

 

 

 

I recognize that this is the culture where you came from, but it is not the culture in the US - or at least it didn't used to be so. 

 

Even in the US, I did not work in high school, have a car, punch a time clock or spend half an hour fixing a jammed copy machine (rather, mimeograph machine) and managed to learn all these "skills" anyway.  I thought I was fairly normal.

 

 

ETA.  Come to think of it, neither of my parents had a job in high school either.  They were in high school at the end of the war and returning GIs got jobs, not high schoolers.  I'm not convinced lack of a job in high school is the issue.

[3in9th]

I have actually seen reverse evolution. In the event that I witnessed, it involved a group of 12 year old boys and a pizza buffet.

 

Possibly, this should not be held against the majority of people as proof that the human race is headed back to the Jurassic age, but just the same, it was rather savage! :lol:

 

http://memeaddicts.com/crazy/albert-einstein-quotes-about-technology/irregulartimes.com%5Ewp-content%5Euploads%5E2013%5E06%5Eeinsteintechquote2.jpg/irregulartimes.com%5E2013%5E06%5E28%5Ewhateinsteindidntsayaboutsocialmediausersbeingidiotsannouncedoversocialmedia%5E/

[TechWife]

I get what you are saying. I worked. It never occurred to me to not work. It never occurred to me not to do a good job.

 

Perhaps the "training" was just absorbing family expectation.

 

I know it was the family expectation in my home. So have expectations changed that drastically?

[HSmomof2]

Going back to the original topic, I have a theory.

 

The skills that are being discussed in the article and in various responses are are soft skills. They are, by and large, skills one gains through experience. Over the past ten years or so, maybe more, there has been an ever increasing push within the American education system to get students "college ready." This has been accompanied by the many and various publications that tout "The best college for... ." Alongside this, there are now numerous books, website and various guidance counselors that are giving out information on how to prepare for the great college admissions quest. The result of this has been a generation of high school students who are, for lack of a better term, "packaged" for college. This packaging is not unique to only top tier universities. It happens at just about every level. This package most often seems to include multiple AP courses and exams, sports, scouts, leadership positions and volunteer hours. The one thing that seems missing, at least in my corner of the world, is for pay work experience. Students who go to colleges now have not worked for their cars, their auto insurance, their brand name clothes or their college expenses. They have never had to punch a time clock and do what was expected of them because they have financial responsibilities. They have never had to get along with their coworkers because they were expected to do so. They have never had to figure out how to fix a mistake that they or another coworker made. They've not had to spend 30 minutes trying to fix a jammed copy machine because they had to do something someone else was counting on. They have never depended on anyone else to carry their own weight so that they could get their job done, nor have they had to make sure they do something correctly because their coworker was counting on them so they could get their own job done. They have never had to call in sick (I mean really sick), fix a flat tire on their way to work or any of the other seemingly small tasks associated with the working world.

 

Now, I do recognize that academics are not easy and that students need to work to succeed in school. However, I think a lot of the things that are done in educational environments are done to create simulated experiences that can be experienced through the working world - team projects, study groups, sports and leadership activities are simulated real life experiences. Students in high school take AP tests to earn college credit. What happened to earning college credit in college? When did everything become an organized volunteer event instead of having neighbors help neighbors? I know many students who only do volunteer work because it is expected, not because they want to contribute or because they see it as a valid way of learning something new or gaining experience in something that interests them. I do know that in many areas of the country, paying jobs for teens have been hard to come by for economic reasons.

 

All of this brings me to the question: Are employers seeing college students that are unprepared for the work force because, by and large, the students have not truly worked before?

I've been thinking about this post today too, and even discussed it with dh. We came up with a very similar analysis as yours. Many of the skills that seem to be lacking are skills learned by working, and preferably experience working with the public.

[creekland]

 In real life the answers are not in the back of the book.

 

I knew there was a catch!

 

Otherwise, I have to say that many (not all) in the current generation ARE missing work ethic skills.  I've only been working at our high school for 15 years, but in that period of time I've seen the majority go from being willing to sit down (often with a group) and tackle problems that were more difficult to now just closing the book without so much as a second thought about anything that wasn't obvious.  When I ask them about it, invariably the response is "the teacher will go over it tomorrow."

 

It has left me wondering about the future of society.  There are certainly still youngsters who are outside that norm and I know they have a future for themselves, but are there enough of them?  Time will tell.

 

My aunt worked in a basic retail hiring position for many years.  It was very, very difficult for her to find good workers even among those just looking for an entry level job (teens) or those who were supposedly desperate for any job.  She'd hire many only to have them not show up or quit after a day or two.  Why?  Well... there were rules about not using cell phones while on the job, showing up on time, talking pleasantly with customers, getting basic tasks done without needing an "over the shoulder" supervisor, etc.  They wanted a paycheck, but to work for it?  This wasn't even a sweaty non-stop job like some fast food places...  

 

Granted, these weren't college grads, but the pattern is still there.

[Murphy101]

I've been thinking about this post today too, and even discussed it with dh. We came up with a very similar analysis as yours. Many of the skills that seem to be lacking are skills learned by working, and preferably experience working with the public.

Idk that I agree.

 

Because if that were the case, then wouldn't being written up or fired for something like not coming in on time teach them to come in on time. This isn't rocket science level reasoning. It's a pretty clear cut cause and direct effect issue.

 

It sounds more to me like the problem is two fold:

 

Don't care

And/or

Lack of consequences

 

If my young adult got fired for not coming to work on time bc they over slept all the time or using their phone at work or whatever like that -

 

Goodness. Their home life would be decidedly unpleasant bc Dh and I would be sitting them down and having a loud conversation about how they better pull their head out their rear and get serious.

 

I'm assuming these slackers live at home since they can't hold down a job to pay their own bills? I would think their self esteem is near zero? I can't imagine being 20 something years old and dependant on my mama for a car, coffee money... How do they even date or make friends? I mean all if that requires transport, money to hang out at a coffee shop or whatever? NO money would be given to an adult child of mine who wasn't doing the basics to find and keep employment. No anything. They could eat with us when we eat, but that's about it. No internet. No paying for their stuff like cell phones and gas money Unless they wanted me to drive them to a job interview or work, we'd cut them off. Because want is a great motivator, kwim?

 

We are very much, live here and save your money for as long you want type parents. We don't really care if they move out as long as they are considerate contributing adults, but the concept of not helping the family and themselves to do better via employment and education is just not even an option considered.

 

As much as these young adults boggle my mind, imagining what is transpiring on the home front to perpetuate it is even more so?

 

I get that some might need coaching, but surely at some point either they get a clue or those supporting them give them several clues? Right?

 

The first time my kid was late for work, we'd tell them, okay so now you know you better set your alarm for earlier or whatever. What are you going to do to make sure this doesn't happen again?

 

So confusing to me bc it sounds like everyone around these young adults have a long history of... Idk what. Perpetuating the problem or reinforcing that it isn't really that big a deal? I'm not talking just parents, but teachers and so on too.

[LibraryLover]

Articles and experiences like these make me all confirmation bias. ;) if young people are causing the downfall of so Irtysh with their slacker ways, why are the shelves at TJs, Target, Whole Paycheck eye, always well displayed and stocked, why does the 17 yet old bagging my groceries always put the bread on top. Why do the middle school student volunteers at my work place always show up and do a good job? Why do I see kids getting their homework done so they can get to ballet and track and their babysitting jobs on time. Why isn't there mass chaos on every corner, and every business. How come my my take -out orders always arrive hot, and I'm the time frame I was given on the phone?

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Articles and experiences like these make me all confirmation bias. ;) if young people are causing the downfall of so Irtysh with their slacker ways, why are the shelves at TJs, Target, Whole Paycheck eye, always well displayed and stocked, why does the 17 yet old bagging my groceries always put the bread on top. Why do the middle school student volunteers at my work place always show up and do a good job? Why do I see kids getting their homework done so they can get to ballet and track and their babysitting jobs on time. Why isn't there mass chaos on every corner, and every business. How come my my take -out orders always arrive hot, and I'm the time frame I was given on the phone?

 

I have come to believe that we definitely find what we're looking for, when it comes to young people. The whole spectrum is there for us to behold. I prefer to see and encourage the ones who are responsible and growing, whom I believe to be the majority.

[Jenny in Florida]

Articles and experiences like these make me all confirmation bias. ;) if young people are causing the downfall of so Irtysh with their slacker ways, why are the shelves at TJs, Target, Whole Paycheck eye, always well displayed and stocked, why does the 17 yet old bagging my groceries always put the bread on top. Why do the middle school student volunteers at my work place always show up and do a good job? Why do I see kids getting their homework done so they can get to ballet and track and their babysitting jobs on time. Why isn't there mass chaos on every corner, and every business. How come my my take -out orders always arrive hot, and I'm the time frame I was given on the phone?

 

Because you live in Stepford?

 

I won't say I never have those experiences, but it's certainly not "always" in my neck of the woods.

 

As often as not, the shelves at my local Targets and Publix stores are neither neat nor full, and if there is an empty space where I expected to find the product I wanted to buy, there is no one around to ask for help. If I do track down someone to ask, that person is as likely to shrug and say he or she doesn't know as to try and help me find the answer.

 

The kids I work with at the tutoring center -- who, remember, have parents who care enough about their kids doing well in school to seek out and pay for private tutoring -- do the homework we assign them about half of the time.

 

My take-out orders arrive cold and/or wrong at least one third of the time, even at restaurants I visit regularly, placing the exact same order.

 

When I was running programs at our former church, we regularly got fewer than half the kids who signed up for events show up at all, let alone on time. Often, my own kids were the only ones doing the work.

 

After typing that out, I think it's important to emphasize that I actually am a pretty positive, optimistic person. My nickname at one of my former workplaces was "Little Jenny Sunshine," because my co-workers got tired of listening to me look on the bright side. But, at least where I am, life just isn't chugging along smoothly as it seems to be doing for you.

[Murphy101]

Articles and experiences like these make me all confirmation bias. ;) if young people are causing the downfall of so Irtysh with their slacker ways, why are the shelves at TJs, Target, Whole Paycheck eye, always well displayed and stocked, why does the 17 yet old bagging my groceries always put the bread on top. Why do the middle school student volunteers at my work place always show up and do a good job? Why do I see kids getting their homework done so they can get to ballet and track and their babysitting jobs on time. Why isn't there mass chaos on every corner, and every business. How come my my take -out orders always arrive hot, and I'm the time frame I was given on the phone?

Me too! That was kind of my point in my last post and the source of my confusion. Because the problem seems to be a naturally self resolving one, yes?

 

Tho I gotta say, I do see a lot of what is mentioned. Dh and I often say you can't pay people to work these days. It's like you literally can't give them money. Contractors who make an appointment to give an estimate, but never show up. Going into a store to buy something, but the people working there seem uninterested in ringing up the order. This kind of thing is very common and it completely baffles us. We can only think these people or places don't need our business and bc we do need our money, we will usually not spend there if we can avoid it.

 

ETA: and I do not think it is a young people problem. I am just as likely to see these business problems in a 40 year old worker as a 21 year old.

[LibraryLover]

My smartphone is an idiot. Those are some epic autocorrects. ;)

 

I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. Absolutely not Stepford.

 

But I will admit I've always been a glass full person. I'm not bothered by some of the things that make others crazy. (Not that I don't have my sticking points!!! )

 

There have always been, and always will be, slackers.

 

Nothing to see here.

[LibraryLover]

I have seen a few transactions, sadly. It is a wealthy area, I'll give you that. One of wealthiest in the US, but there is also a great deal of poverty. But businesses seem to be thriving here, and that's just not true other areas.

 

We are failing many folks. The safety nets are inadequate, although I think my community does some things very right.

 

It seems to me that the folks working at the places I mentioned are all quite young. But I agree that most of these people probably see a future for themselves. I think it's very easy to become less motivated, and even give up when you can't see a way up and out.

[Murphy101]

Sounds like you are talking about a wealthier area if Whole Paycheck is where you are looking and kids are going to ballet and track. The schools here have cut middle school sports.

In my area, teens dont have stocking jobs...those are for adults who work an early shift, a high school work program, or for an adult vendor who is delivering and stocking. Adults cashier and bag, except for those students involved in a joint program with the high school...no teens outside of the program are hired. Middle school students dont volunteer at businesses...their parents work and arent able to get off and drive them. If you look at the corners, you will see kids who are dealing.

This here too. I can go weeks without seeing a teen employee at anywhere I do business. My 19 year old is working full time as a produce manager at a grocery store while attending community college full time and he is the youngest employee at his store. It's a source of problems bc the older people in their mid 20s to 30s get pissy about being told what to do by a "kid". Especially when he is writing them up for stuff like coming to work late or leaving unannounced when they are supposed to be working.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I live in a very non-Stepford area. The kids do a great job at fast food and grocery bagging because those positions are extremely competitive -- so many kids NEED to work. They aren't funding their afterschool activities. They're paying for the family's utility bills. So because they all need jobs, employers can demand excellence. Slackers get fired, a new crop gets their chance.

 

My kids work in fast food and grocery here; one of my boys is a manager. He says he'll put a (name of neighborhood) teen up against a Stepford teen from the nearby wealthy suburb any day, for work ethic and responsibility. Neighborhood Teen needs the work. Stepford teen can afford to be selfish or lazy.

[LibraryLover]

You know what? I do live in a nice community. It's not Stepford, but I feel like it is special. (Channeling the church lady. lol) Every public school in my city gives children organic lunches. The salad bar at the elementary school I volunteered at was a thing of beauty. They gobbled up quinoa and the like.

 

Eta: never mind. I'm hopeless. I've loved almost every community I have ever lived. I'm totally biased. lol

[Tsuga]

The kids just need not to be babied and cuddled so much.

 

Stop the snuggling!

[Murphy101]

Stop the snuggling!

Has anyone else ever noted how similiar giving affectionate nouggies can look just like strangling?

 

Love. There's nothing like it.

 

;p

[Matryoshka]

This here too. I can go weeks without seeing a teen employee at anywhere I do business.

 

Part of the problem is that so few places even hire teens under 18 anymore.

 

My dd did get a job last year (@15yo) packing boxes w/ internet orders.  I think she was the only teen.  The others were mostly adult immigrants.

 

My other dd (now 16yo) has been looking and looking for a job - most places won't hire under 18yo.  You know the reason JoAnn Fabrics gave for not hiring teens under 18?  Because they'd have to use scissors.  Whaaaat?

 

Meanwhile that same dd was doing an (unpaid) internship at a living history museum where she had to cook on an open hearth, use knives to prepare food, and haul wool in and out of kettles over an open fire (to dye it).  But, yeah, that would be toooo scary to let her use scissors to cut fabric. I worked at a fabric store while in high school, and managed to not kill myself or anyone else with the scissors.  Phew.

 

Yes, we are infantalizing our kids.

 

Dd14 is thinking of looking for a job.  The only place she can find that hires 14yos is the local grocery store (bagging, I'm guessing?). 

[FaithManor]

Part of the problem is that so few places even hire teens under 18 anymore.

 

My dd did get a job last year (@15yo) packing boxes w/ internet orders.  I think she was the only teen.  The others were mostly adult immigrants.

 

My other dd (now 16yo) has been looking and looking for a job - most places won't hire under 18yo.  You know the reason JoAnn Fabrics gave for not hiring teens under 18?  Because they'd have to use scissors.  Whaaaat?

 

Meanwhile that same dd was doing an (unpaid) internship at a living history museum where she had to cook on an open hearth, use knives to prepare food, and haul wool in and out of kettles over an open fire (to dye it).  But, yeah, that would be toooo scary to let her use scissors to cut fabric. I worked at a fabric store while in high school, and managed to not kill myself or anyone else with the scissors.  Phew.

 

Yes, we are infantalizing our kids.

 

Dd14 is thinking of looking for a job.  The only place she can find that hires 14yos is the local grocery store (bagging, I'm guessing?). 

I think this is especially true in states with higher unemployment rates. Employers figure, "Why hire an inexperienced teen when I can get an adult with references and lots of work experience for minimum wage?"

 

Scissors??? Oh good grief. What.an.excuse!

[Murphy101]

Part of the problem is that so few places even hire teens under 18 anymore.

 

My dd did get a job last year (@15yo) packing boxes w/ internet orders. I think she was the only teen. The others were mostly adult immigrants.

 

My other dd (now 16yo) has been looking and looking for a job - most places won't hire under 18yo. You know the reason JoAnn Fabrics gave for not hiring teens under 18? Because they'd have to use scissors. Whaaaat?

 

Meanwhile that same dd was doing an (unpaid) internship at a living history museum where she had to cook on an open hearth, use knives to prepare food, and haul wool in and out of kettles over an open fire (to dye it). But, yeah, that would be toooo scary to let her use scissors to cut fabric. I worked at a fabric store while in high school, and managed to not kill myself or anyone else with the scissors. Phew.

 

Yes, we are infantalizing our kids.

 

Dd14 is thinking of looking for a job. The only place she can find that hires 14yos is the local grocery store (bagging, I'm guessing?).

Oh trust me I know. They can't work fast food bc - knives and cooktops - gasp. Can't work for a carpet shampooer bc - caustic chemical cleaners - gasp. And "industrial cleaning machines". Um. A shampooer , vacuum, and floor waxer take some serious effort to abuse yourself with?

 

Mine applied at dozens and dozens and dozens of places before finding somewhere that would give them a chance.

 

And added to that, we have curfew issues and class schedule issues that can get employers in trouble and it's a hassle bc they can just hire someone over 18 and not deal with it.

 

And "do you have your own reliable transportation"? Um. Back in my day only the really really well off had any type of their own car at 16-18. And most of those were clunkers. So I told my kids to write yes even tho they didn't even have a driver's license. They did have reliable transportation and that's what mattered as far as I could tell. And eventually it turned out we did sign over our car to them. Like 5 years later and we still drive it just as much as they do, but that's not the point. :)

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I wouldn't be surprised if some employers' reluctance to hire teens also has to do with the restrictions on their work availability. 

[HSmomof2]

Articles and experiences like these make me all confirmation bias. ;) if young people are causing the downfall of so Irtysh with their slacker ways, why are the shelves at TJs, Target, Whole Paycheck eye, always well displayed and stocked, why does the 17 yet old bagging my groceries always put the bread on top. Why do the middle school student volunteers at my work place always show up and do a good job? Why do I see kids getting their homework done so they can get to ballet and track and their babysitting jobs on time. Why isn't there mass chaos on every corner, and every business. How come my my take -out orders always arrive hot, and I'm the time frame I was given on the phone?

Because these are the responsible and mature young people who won't have the future work problems described in the article.

[HSmomof2]

Idk that I agree.

 

Because if that were the case, then wouldn't being written up or fired for something like not coming in on time teach them to come in on time. This isn't rocket science level reasoning. It's a pretty clear cut cause and direct effect issue.

 

It sounds more to me like the problem is two fold:

 

Don't care

And/or

Lack of consequences

 

If my young adult got fired for not coming to work on time bc they over slept all the time or using their phone at work or whatever like that -

 

Goodness. Their home life would be decidedly unpleasant bc Dh and I would be sitting them down and having a loud conversation about how they better pull their head out their rear and get serious.

 

I'm assuming these slackers live at home since they can't hold down a job to pay their own bills? I would think their self esteem is near zero? I can't imagine being 20 something years old and dependant on my mama for a car, coffee money... How do they even date or make friends? I mean all if that requires transport, money to hang out at a coffee shop or whatever? NO money would be given to an adult child of mine who wasn't doing the basics to find and keep employment. No anything. They could eat with us when we eat, but that's about it. No internet. No paying for their stuff like cell phones and gas money Unless they wanted me to drive them to a job interview or work, we'd cut them off. Because want is a great motivator, kwim?

 

We are very much, live here and save your money for as long you want type parents. We don't really care if they move out as long as they are considerate contributing adults, but the concept of not helping the family and themselves to do better via employment and education is just not even an option considered.

 

As much as these young adults boggle my mind, imagining what is transpiring on the home front to perpetuate it is even more so?

 

I get that some might need coaching, but surely at some point either they get a clue or those supporting them give them several clues? Right?

 

The first time my kid was late for work, we'd tell them, okay so now you know you better set your alarm for earlier or whatever. What are you going to do to make sure this doesn't happen again?

 

So confusing to me bc it sounds like everyone around these young adults have a long history of... Idk what. Perpetuating the problem or reinforcing that it isn't really that big a deal? I'm not talking just parents, but teachers and so on too.

Oh, I agree with you....generally, many young people are just not getting the work or volunteer experience they need before going into the world as adults. Parents, schools, and society in general are contributors to the problem. Parents bail them out, schools expect little (and that's caused by multiple factors, including whining parents), few even give kids opportunities to develop these skills. For example, when I was in elementary school (many years ago), when we got to sixth grade, we had school 'jobs'. I 'worked' in the library checking in/out books, shelving them. I worked in the cafeteria, handing out 'cold packs' and selling milk. I did school patrol as a crossing guard and putting the flag up every morning. These things were the beginnings of developing workplace skills that I didn't learn from academics. I asked my ds and dd if they still did these things at school....they said no, adults (volunteers or employees) do all these things. Students would not be allowed to do this. Maybe the difference is when I was in school, we weren't preparing for some ridiculous state/district test every week. We actually had time to really learn. My parents also expected me to have a part-time job all through high school and college. I graduated from college (not a STEM major), and yet have never had any of the work issues described in the article. It's more about developing a good work ethic and work habits in young people that will make the difference. Specific job skills can be trained, but bad habits/attitude are hard to overcome.

[3in9th]

One of the thing that gets me is how many students email my dh and 1- misspell his name (it's not a hard name and is only 6 letters) 2- have such poor grammar and spelling in the body of their text and 3- don't use professional language in their interactions with him. I'm not sure who is supposed to teach them this, but the misspelling of his name is just laziness.

[regentrude]

One of the thing that gets me is how many students email my dh and 1- misspell his name (it's not a hard name and is only 6 letters) 2- have such poor grammar and spelling in the body of their text and 3- don't use professional language in their interactions with him. I'm not sure who is supposed to teach them this, but the misspelling of his name is just laziness.

Yes, that is a pet peeve of mine.

It's not even just misspelling, it is refusing to take the ten seconds it takes to look at your instructor's name and know it. Weeks into the semester, students will describe their instructor to me as "the tall german guy" or "the Russian lady" becasue they can't be bothered to learn the name of the person who teaches them twice a week...

And then I get emails like this one:  "I know I should contact my TA about this, but he has such a  difficult name...." WTH? You are too lazy to look up your TA's name and bother ME?

 

I don't know why students don't have email etiquette.  I feel really awkward telling them that an email must have a salutation (and no "hey you" is not how you address your professor) and a subject. Maybe instructors need to enforce that more, but I find it very awkward (and time consuming) to do and reserve it for very rude emails.

 

Before my DD sent her first email to a professor when she as in 10th grade, I looked over the email to make sure she had a correct salutation and tone.  There's not much TO it,but apparently many students don't grasp that what is appropriate among peers is not appropriate in professional communication.

 

I have found a strong correlation between student performance and ability to compose an appropriate, coherent email to an instructor. The good students all seem to know that "hey you" is not OK, and that they need a subject. The rude, demanding, overly informal emails usually come from the underperforming students. Surprise.

[creekland]

Articles and experiences like these make me all confirmation bias. ;) if young people are causing the downfall of so Irtysh with their slacker ways, why are the shelves at TJs, Target, Whole Paycheck eye, always well displayed and stocked, why does the 17 yet old bagging my groceries always put the bread on top. Why do the middle school student volunteers at my work place always show up and do a good job? Why do I see kids getting their homework done so they can get to ballet and track and their babysitting jobs on time. Why isn't there mass chaos on every corner, and every business. How come my my take -out orders always arrive hot, and I'm the time frame I was given on the phone?

 

With the exception of the school stuff and one local grocery store that uses teen cashiers and baggers, all the rest of the jobs you're describing tend to be done by adults or high school graduates around here.  Stocking (everywhere I've seen) is all done by adults.

 

My Aunt was also hiring adults or recent school graduates, not teens still in school.  The reason her store looked as good as it did is because she had one or two good employees and she, herself, would go behind those who weren't good and clean up their messes until they quit.  If she fired them, then they would get unemployment, so she was happy when the slackers would quit.  She finally gave up working for retail (after oodles of years) and now works in a credit union far, far happier with her life.

 

No one is saying ALL kids/adults are slackers or feel they have a right to cell phone usage (etc) no matter what they are supposed to be doing, but there definitely is a segment who feels that way and that segment seems larger than before.

[Joyofsixreboot]

My kids have all worked( and had good grades and extra curriculars) and have worked as much as possible (15-20/week) during college at least the three so far, high schooler works about 12/wk. They report that most kids they know don't work because their parents freely provide all extras ie. clothes, cars, gas, movie, vacation and beer money. They also have stories about kids who don't call to quit they just don't show up. They're not encouraging about current work ethic either. These are mostly working or middle class kids. I'm kind of shocked but they have worked different places with the same stories. I'm guessing family expectations are key.

[BarbecueMom]

Yes, that is a pet peeve of mine.

It's not even just misspelling, it is refusing to take the ten seconds it takes to look at your instructor's name and know it. Weeks into the semester, students will describe their instructor to me as "the tall german guy" or "the Russian lady" becasue they can't be bothered to learn the name of the person who teaches them twice a week...

And then I get emails like this one: "I know I should contact my TA about this, but he has such a difficult name...." WTH? You are too lazy to look up your TA's name and bother ME?

 

I don't know why students don't have email etiquette. I feel really awkward telling them that an email must have a salutation (and no "hey you" is not how you address your professor) and a subject. Maybe instructors need to enforce that more, but I find it very awkward (and time consuming) to do and reserve it for very rude emails.

 

Before my DD sent her first email to a professor when she as in 10th grade, I looked over the email to make sure she had a correct salutation and tone. There's not much TO it,but apparently many students don't grasp that what is appropriate among peers is not appropriate in professional communication.

 

I have found a strong correlation between student performance and ability to compose an appropriate, coherent email to an instructor. The good students all seem to know that "hey you" is not OK, and that they need a subject. The rude, demanding, overly informal emails usually come from the underperforming students. Surprise.

The problem is that a polite, properly worded email to a college professor is not preparation for properly worded emails and memos in many work environments. I worked in law enforcement and DH has worked for DoD and other governmental agencies, and each one has a specific way of wording and managing communications. They are all different, and they all think that's the only way to do things.

 

ETA: I had my resignation memo kicked back to me at one police department because the person I was addressing had a long name and his position ended up on the line beneath his name instead of next to it. Abbreviations were not allowed. I had to change the font on my memo to make it "proper". My supervisor was actually irritated that I didn't know that.

[regentrude]

The problem is that a polite, properly worded email to a college professor is not preparation for properly worded emails and memos in many work environments. I worked in law enforcement and DH has worked for DoD and other governmental agencies, and each one has a specific way of wording and managing communications. They are all different, and they all think that's the only way to do things.

 

There may always be company specific details and requirements, but I believe that there are general things that transcend the specific situation: addressing the person to whom a message is directed, putting a descriptive subject in the subject line, using proper grammar and spelling, being concise and respectful, signing with one's name.

Anybody who can do the above will be able to pick up the company/organization specific details once told, but I have a hard time believing that there are organizations or companies whose rules forbid the above.

 

As for your ETA: this is about college grads entering the work force. I consider it unreasonable to expect them to know the specific rules of each individual organization without being taught in the work place. I do, however, consider it reasonable to expect general manners.

 

 

[Joker]

I don't know if this has been shared but I found it interesting considering this thread. I just read it today.

 

 

http://news.yahoo.com/yale-students-protest-requirement-aid-recipients-170656314.html

 

It's about some Yale students protesting the fact they have to work to contribute $6400 annually to their education. They say it takes away from them enjoying campus life. If my dds were accepted to Yale and told they only had to contribute $6400 a year, I would be pretty flipping happy (and you bet your bottom dds would be too).

 

If there is more to this that I don't know, please share as this is the only thing I've read about it. I just can't imagine feeling the way they do.