Why are so many college students failing to gain job skills before graduation?

[bettyandbob]

I am sure an employer understands that an employee really can not make it if he has a long commute and the roads are really bad.

However, there are plenty of people who take the snow as an excuse even if the could got to work - by walking.

 

I see that with my students. I understand that the guy who lives 10 miles out of town can't be there if we get snow- but most of them live less than 1.5 miles from campus. There is no reason they can't get up earlier and walk on their able feet. Heck, if I middle aged woman can walk 2.5 miles in the snow to be on time for my 8am class, so can they.

It's an attitude issue.

I can walk just about anywhere. I think part of that stems from being to play and go and explore wher I wanted as a kid. So walking and biking and finding easy routes for walking and biking is a habit. But kids in the US have generally not been free to do that independently as kids so they don't develop walking habits naturally.

 

We live just ove a mile to the high school and my older two have gone there. They were walkers. I'm still surprised at how many parents drive that distance twice a day and then get the kid a car to drive it himself twice a day. There are buses for over 1.5 miles. My dd insists on walking, we offer when it rain, but she doesn't get a ride from us more than 5 times a year. She's had at least one parent of a friend comment that her walking is neglectful on my part -- dd is 17 and the area is probably as walkable and safe as you could get. Our locality has gotten recognized for walkability.

 

So yes, many kids don't have the skills to figure out self powered transit.

[regentrude]

I can walk just about anywhere. I think part of that stems from being to play and go and explore wher I wanted as a kid. So walking and biking and finding easy routes for walking and biking is a habit. But kids in the US have generally not been free to do that independently as kids so they don't develop walking habits naturally.

 

We live just ove a mile to the high school and my older two have gone there. They were walkers. I'm still surprised at how many parents drive that distance twice a day and then get the kid a car to drive it himself twice a day. There are buses for over 1.5 miles. My dd insists on walking, we offer when it rain, but she doesn't get a ride from us more than 5 times a year. She's had at least one parent of a friend comment that her walking is neglectful on my part -- dd is 17 and the area is probably as walkable and safe as you could get. Our locality has gotten recognized for walkability.

 

So yes, many kids don't have the skills to figure out self powered transit.

 

We made the same experience, the elementary school is half a mile away and we walked. No other kid on our street walked, everybody was driven. It's ridiculous.

 

This said: I expect 18 year olds to be resourceful enough to figure out that they have feet.

[FaithManor]

We made the same experience, the elementary school is half a mile away and we walked. No other kid on our street walked, everybody was driven. It's ridiculous.

 

This said: I expect 18 year olds to be resourceful enough to figure out that they have feet.

I walked as a kid. It was good for me.

 

You would be surprised the number of schools that are against students walking, even for a block. The irrational fear of something happening to kids in otherwise safe neighborhoods is nuts! Walking is a good thing.

 

Thankfully, in our district, kids that live within a half mile of town are encouraged to walk, and there are a lot of volunteers who help out at the crosswalks with the younger children. I am glad they foster this.

[Laura Corin]

 

 

Thankfully, in our district, kids that live within a half mile of town are encouraged to walk, and there are a lot of volunteers who help out at the crosswalks with the younger children. I am glad they foster this.

 

Do you not have lollipop ladies (or gentlemen)?  It's a great retirement job for some people: you help children across the roads morning and afternoon.

[BarbecueMom]

I walked as a kid. It was good for me.

 

You would surprised the number of schools that are against students walking, even for a block. The irrational fear of something happening to kids in otherwise safe neighborhoods is nuts! Walking is a good thing.

 

Thankfully, in our district, kids that live within a half mile of town are encouraged to walk, and there are a lot of volunteers who help out at the crosswalks with the younger children. I am glad they foster this.

Our zoned elementary school is less than a mile away, in our subdivision. According to school policy, in order for parents to walk with their child to school, you have to be approved by the administration. You can't just up and decide to start walking your kid to the school, nor can you send them on their own. I'm not sure what they'd do if you defied that rule. They can't suspend your kid or call the cops or CPS because you walked with your child to the school door, can they?

[linders]

While I don't necessarily think college will teach specific job skills, here are some skills I as an employer expected from a college grad - I was all too often disapppointed:

 

- Ability to write a clear and grammatically correct summary of the progress to date on a a project

- Ability to present an idea orally to a group without drifting off into all sort of rabbit trails

- Ability to analyze an assignment, ask clarifying questions, identify data gaps, seek appropriate additional resources, and lay out a timeline for accomplishing the task

- Ability to manage time and alert a manager sufficiently early if deadlines might be missed (this was a huge issue with recent college grads)

- Ability to show up on time, every day, ready to work (versus, say, spending the whole morning complaining to everyone around about your latest breakup)

- Ability to use the computer, especially email, in a professional way (no emoticons, no text slang, respectful)

- Ability to take knowledge gained in college courses, meld it with OTJ training, and apply it in a project

- Ability to recognize and respect a chain of command and raise issues in a mature manner within that context

 

Off soapbox.

 

 

[In The Great White North]

 

Lolly, on 02 Mar 2015 - 08:55 AM, said:

 Come to work. It snowed. Not shutting down.

 

Well, gotta say, I mostly agreed with everything else you wrote, but we don't go to work until the roads are clear and safe.  Not risking my car, much less my neck, for a boss.  Uh-huh, no.

 

 

That's what snow tires are for.  You are expected to have reliable transportation to get yourself to work.  "Clear" is an unreasonable expectation in about half the country.

 

If you're not willing to drive in the snow around here, you will be unemployed for 5-6 months of the year.

[In The Great White North]

 

 

Do you not have lollipop ladies (or gentlemen)?  It's a great retirement job for some people: you help children across the roads morning and afternoon.

 

 

Back in the day, the 6th graders did this.  (A K-6 school, and they got to come a little late and leave a little early so they would be in place.)

[FaithManor]

Our zoned elementary school is less than a mile away, in our subdivision. According to school policy, in order for parents to walk with their child to school, you have to be approved by the administration. You can't just up and decide to start walking your kid to the school, nor can you send them on their own. I'm not sure what they'd do if you defied that rule. They can't suspend your kid or call the cops or CPS because you walked with your child to the school door, can they?

Oh good grief! :banghead:  :banghead: :banghead:  

 

I don't think CPS would get involved. But, on the other hand, I would suppose they could make a student miserable at school by punishing him or her for the parent's choice such as after school detention and such.

[Laura Corin]

Our zoned elementary school is less than a mile away, in our subdivision. According to school policy, in order for parents to walk with their child to school, you have to be approved by the administration. You can't just up and decide to start walking your kid to the school, nor can you send them on their own. I'm not sure what they'd do if you defied that rule. They can't suspend your kid or call the cops or CPS because you walked with your child to the school door, can they?

 

Umm... why do they think that parents should ask for permission to walk their own children to school?  I really don't understand.  Not being snarky.

[Hikin' Mama]

Our zoned elementary school is less than a mile away, in our subdivision. According to school policy, in order for parents to walk with their child to school, you have to be approved by the administration. You can't just up and decide to start walking your kid to the school, nor can you send them on their own. I'm not sure what they'd do if you defied that rule. They can't suspend your kid or call the cops or CPS because you walked with your child to the school door, can they?

That's just stupid, and yet it doesn't surprise me. : /

[FaithManor]

And on the subject of walking to school, I just want to say that my friends and I would meet at the corner and walk together. Rain or shine, unless it was so icy on the sidewalks and streets that our parents were really concerned for our safety, we walked. We had fun too. It was a nice, relaxing time to talk about all kinds of things, even venting about an assignment or a teacher before we got to school and that was probably good because it go our angst out of system before the bell rang!

 

When I'm in town, I see groups of kids walking down to the library, or to their homes, or two their parents' place of business, and I have to say, they are always talking, laughing, giggling. In the winter, the occasional good natured snowball fight breaks out. There is always a grandparently type figure on the corner to break it up if it gets out of control. No biggie. It looks so healthy to me.

[bettyandbob]

Do you not have lollipop ladies (or gentlemen)?  It's a great retirement job for some people: you help children across the roads morning and afternoon.

 

 

We have paid adult crossing guards. In some localities it is a benefits paying job, so it is a good job. Because students outside of 1 mile for elementary and 1.5 miles for middle/high school are not provided bus transit the school system has to have crossing guards for major roads. The crossing guard on the big road my dd crosses has been there for years and does a great job. But people still drive their kids to school. Not that many kids walk and take advantage of the crossing guard, but she is there.

 

Back in the day in this same town we didn't have crossing guards. The sixth graders acted as patrols and did the same job. Middle and high schoolers were expected to know how to cross safely.

[bettyandbob]

Umm... why do they think that parents should ask for permission to walk their own children to school?  I really don't understand.  Not being snarky.

 

 

Yeah. I've heard some places not far from me doing this. It's just stupid. I don't think it is something that can be understood.

While I don't necessarily think college will teach specific job skills, heer are some skills I as an employer expected from a college grad - I was all too often disappointed:

 

- Ability to present an idea orally to a group without drifting off into all sort of rabbit trails

 

 

Apparently no one in the Hive will ever be able to hold down a job...

[BarbecueMom]

Umm... why do they think that parents should ask for permission to walk their own children to school? I really don't understand. Not being snarky.

I have no idea. I have no intention of sending my kids there, and I only looked it up after being stopped behind the elementary bus dropping off kids one street over from the school entrance.

 

We have a main road with a sidewalk (school is on the main road with crosswalks), none of the side roads with houses have sidewalks. I thought that would be the reason, but last year the buses did pick up and drop off at the corners of the main road, so the kids had to walk on the road anyway. This year the bus brings the kids right to their houses. Good grief.

[Anne in CA]

I don't know too many college grads who really wanted a career in recent years. Most of them want to keep living at home and playing video games and just work at someplace like Starbucks for a little spending money. But that is just the people I know who invested money they didn't really have in their kids educations and can't figure out why their kids don't see why they should have to work when mom and dad have a room for them. There may be bigger societal problems I am unaware of.

[bettyandbob]

I didn't mean to take this down a tangent.

 

I think the lack of ability to walk places is just part of a broader problem of not being about figure out to solve problems/obstacles independently. When  kids are permitted and encouraged to do things independently from a young age, their abilities to handle small and big issues naturally grow. When kids are monitored all the way through high school they don't develop decision making skills or independent thinking skills and have trouble in college and in the world of work.

 

When I started working there were a whole lot of things I didn't know how to do in the job--operating office machines, rearranging schedules, and yes, what to do when I had car trouble. But I had learned through childhood how to deal with various situations and knew how to be flexible to change course. So, even though I didn't have skills very specific to my workplace, I could puzzle through whatever the situation was and figure it out.

[MBM]

Kids sometimes do not walk because their parents have legitimate concerns. Just recently in a neighboring suburb on a very busy road by a busy shopping mall, a man attempted to kidnap a 13-year-old student who was walking at 3:30 in the afternoon. The girl happened to carry a string of metal locks and lobbed him on the chin. That is why parents are sometimes nervous.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/skokie/crime/ct-skr-arrest-made-tl-0219-20150212-story.html

 

Back when I walked my youngest to school, in the span of two years there were five attempted abductions of children -- ages 10 to teens -- in my and a nearby suburb. One man was ballsy enough to attempt to abduct a child one block from our elementary school shortly after school ended. Another attempted to pull a high school girl into his SUV on ritzy Sheridan Road in the middle of the afternoon. You might live in an area where crime has never occurred but in the Chicago areas, it can be quite serious.

 

As for crossing guards, it's not unusual for them to get hit by idiot drivers. They're not making high salaries and getting great benefits around my area. I love them.

 

[TammyS]

I walked as a kid. It was good for me.

 

You would be surprised the number of schools that are against students walking, even for a block. The irrational fear of something happening to kids in otherwise safe neighborhoods is nuts! Walking is a good thing.

 

Thankfully, in our district, kids that live within a half mile of town are encouraged to walk, and there are a lot of volunteers who help out at the crosswalks with the younger children. I am glad they foster this.

 

Wow, really?

 

When I was in school if you lived 1 miles (roads-wise, not necessarily in a straight line) from the school, or less, you weren't allowed to ride the bus.  There were just too many kids in the outlying areas who needed the bus. Huh.

[TammyS]

That's what snow tires are for.  You are expected to have reliable transportation to get yourself to work.  "Clear" is an unreasonable expectation in about half the country.

 

If you're not willing to drive in the snow around here, you will be unemployed for 5-6 months of the year.

 

I live in eastern MD.  No one around here owns snow tires.  I don't even know if they stock them at the tire shop.  If they did, no one would buy them because it's ridiculous to buy something that you won't need some years, and other years only 2-3 times. 

 

I wouldn't live somewhere that expected me to risk my neck getting to work.  No job is worth it.

[Murphy101]

Oh good grief! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

 

I don't think CPS would get involved. But, on the other hand, I would suppose they could make a student miserable at school by punishing him or her for the parent's choice such as after school detention and such.

I don't even understand how that would work unless the parent was complicit with it?

 

I remember getting detention in elementary school and NEVER served any of it. Because buses only ran once and the bus was my only way home. The first time I got detention my mom called the school and told them it wasn't going to happen unless they let me walk home bc she wasn't missing work bc I ticked off my teacher. The school had a no walking policy, which was stupid and often ignored bc we could leave our house, meander through field and creek and highway underpass and hang with friends and still get to school faster than taking the bus.

 

My first grader 15+ years ago before I pulled him, got detention once (he and his friend were wrestling on the playground, not angry fighting, and both got in trouble) and I just said, no that wasn't going to happen. They had my kid for 7 hours, after that, if he needed discipline, I'd handle it myself. And yes I did. He in no way thought he could defy his teacher without consequences bc of it. I always made it clear that if my kid needed punishment, that was my job as a parent, not theirs. I expected him to get lunch and recess and class time like any other student and if they couldn't do that, I expected to know why and I would make sure to correct the problem post haste. He was a very challenging little boy and I still had no problems with that.

 

I'm always astounded at how easily people abdicate to school decisions as though they have no choice.

 

I'm also always astounded that kids respond that way too. But alas, I'm a bit envious too. Because that tendancy seems to be very lacking geneticly in this house.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Problem with walking in a lot of areas is that it's not set up for walkers.  Walking is quite a challenge in winter.  People are frequently hit by cars around here trying to walk. 

 

Kids have to walk to school here though if they live closer than a mile and a half.  I see plenty of walkers to school.  Some areas don't have sidewalks though and that's why a lot of them bus nearly everyone.

 

 

[bettyandbob]

Kids sometimes do not walk because their parents have legitimate concerns. Just recently in a neighboring suburb on a very busy road by a busy shopping mall, a man attempted to kidnap a 13-year-old student who was walking at 3:30 in the afternoon. The girl happened to carry a string of metal locks and lobbed him on the chin. That is why parents are sometimes nervous.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/skokie/crime/ct-skr-arrest-made-tl-0219-20150212-story.html

 

Back when I walked my youngest to school, in the span of two years there were five attempted abductions of children -- ages 10 to teens -- in my and a nearby suburb. One man was ballsy enough to attempt to abduct a child one block from our elementary school shortly after school ended. Another attempted to pull a high school girl into his SUV on ritzy Sheridan Road in the middle of the afternoon. You might live in an area where crime has never occurred but in the Chicago areas, it can be quite serious.

 

As for crossing guards, it's not unusual for them to get hit by idiot drivers. They're not making high salaries and getting great benefits around my area. I love them.

 

 

It's ok for you to make the choice that you must drive your child everywhere.

 

As I explained in a later post not walking to school and not being able to get themselves places on their own can be limiting factor in developing independence. Managing their own transportation is just one way for kids to develop good independence skills. If you feel that strongly about managing your dc's transit, then you really should look at what you are going to do to foster independent decision making skills. When you manage all your dc's transit, you also manage most of their time, the result is very limiting on independent decision making. I understand that some neighborhoods might not be safe. If you live in a neighborhood like that you are going to have to look for alternative ways to build skills.

 

If I felt I had to drive my dc everywhere all the way until he left for college, I'd really have to work hard to find some other thing that would help them become independent thinkers about everyday tasks. By 18, a typically developing kid really should know how to get places on his own. He should know if there is public transit available, even if the bus stop is 1 mile away. He should know how to put together good walking and biking routes which might be faster/shorter/safer than typical driving routes. If he drives a car he should know how to deal with a flat. And you can't wait until 16-17 to suddenly push all these skills--they build gradually. So, the problem is there are a whole lot of 22 year olds who can't do these things. The ones that do know how do everyday things like get to work on time without assistance (even when the subway is delayed) also can show up at an office and learn quickly how to deal with copiers they've never seen, reprioritize work assignments when something in the schedule changes.

 

 And if you don't think independently about everyday tasks how do you get to the point of applying what you learned in civil engineering to building a bridge -- In real life the answers are not in the back of the book.

[FaithManor]

You and me both Martha, because I don't acquiesce to nonsense easily! LOL

 

But, I think a lot of parents feel kind of over the barrel. I know that the local school district fines the parent for any detention unserved, and allows it to accumulate. No pay...no diploma. That's the promise, and they've done it too. I don't know if it would hold up in court because no one has ever challenged it.

 

They also with hold grades and transcripts for transferring/moving students if the fines aren't paid, and detention is not served in place of the fine.

 

I guess they have their ways, and in the younger grades, I've personally witnessed principals being cruel and unprofessional to younger children because they do not like the parents' choices. I attend regular school board meetings because I care about the education in my community. I am almost ALWAYS the only parent that does, and I don't have kids enrolled! I suspect that the lack of willingness to go have a say about what goes on allows this kind of thing to happen.

[SparklyUnicorn]

You and me both Martha, because I don't acquiesce to nonsense easily! LOL

 

But, I think a lot of parents feel kind of over the barrel. I know that the local school district fines the parent for any detention unserved, and allows it to accumulate. No pay...no diploma. That's the promise, and they've done it too. I don't know if it would hold up in court because no one has ever challenged it.

 

They also with hold grades and transcripts for transferring/moving students if the fines aren't paid, and detention is not served in place of the fine.

 

I guess they have their ways, and in the younger grades, I've personally witnessed principals being cruel and unprofessional to younger children because they do not like the parents' choices. I attend regular school board meetings because I care about the education in my community. I am almost ALWAYS the only parent that does, and I don't have kids enrolled! I suspect that the lack of willingness to go have a say about what goes on allows this kind of thing to happen.

 

Wow, that's rather disgusting.

[Murphy101]

I think the not going to work bc of weather thing is likely closely tied to how hungry they are.

 

Dh and I (when I worked) have almost never missed work at all. I *think* twice in 21 years my dh didn't go to work bc of bad roads and it was a valid state of emergency and everyone was supposed to stay off the roads. If that meant he got up at 4am to be at work at 8, then he did. Because no work meant no pay and no pay meant less groceries on the table or worse.

 

My teens have never missed work bc of the roads either. We drove them if we didn't think they were experienced enough to handle it. No work means no pay means less money for college or to help the family or for savings. Just this week one of them left for work 2 hours early not just to allow road time, but to avoid the highest traffic time on those bad roads. Oh and dh went driving through the neighborhood and nearby streets to see what it was like for our younger drivers.

 

And I live in a state where an inch of snow usually means schools close bc we just don't get enough winter weather to make it cost effective to prep roads and vehicles like they do much further north.

[MBM]

It's ok for you to make the choice that you must drive your child everywhere.

 

As I explained in a later post not walking to school and not being able to get themselves places on their own can be limiting factor in developing independence. Managing their own transportation is just one way for kids to develop good independence skills. If you feel that strongly about managing your dc's transit, then you really should look at what you are going to do to foster independent decision making skills. When you manage all your dc's transit, you also manage most of their time, the result is very limiting on independent decision making. I understand that some neighborhoods might not be safe. If you live in a neighborhood like that you are going to have to look for alternative ways to build skills.

 

If I felt I had to drive my dc everywhere all the way until he left for college, I'd really have to work hard to find some other thing that would help them become independent thinkers about everyday tasks. By 18, a typically developing kid really should know how to get places on his own. He should know if there is public transit available, even if the bus stop is 1 mile away. He should know how to put together good walking and biking routes which might be faster/shorter/safer than typical driving routes. If he drives a car he should know how to deal with a flat. And you can't wait until 16-17 to suddenly push all these skills--they build gradually. So, the problem is there are a whole lot of 22 year olds who can't do these things. The ones that do know how do everyday things like get to work on time without assistance (even when the subway is delayed) also can show up at an office and learn quickly how to deal with copiers they've never seen, reprioritize work assignments when something in the schedule changes.

 

 And if you don't think independently about everyday tasks how do you get to the point of applying what you learned in civil engineering to building a bridge -- In real life the answers are not in the back of the book.

 

I have two older children, ages 30 and 29, whom I kept on even tighter leashes than my youngest because we lived in rough neighborhoods of Chicago at the time, much rougher than the suburb I'm in now. Both did very well in college and grad school (engineering degrees), paid their ways through, landed great internships and employment and are now working in start ups which require employees to be self-starters and innovators. Both have traveled extensively on their own for work and fun. My daughter just bought a home in San Francisco using her own money. My son and his wife are about to do the same in Portland. They managed to do quite well despite being closely watched while they were young.

[bettyandbob]

I have two older children, ages 30 and 29, whom I kept on even tighter leashes than my youngest because we lived in rough neighborhoods of Chicago at the time, much rougher than the suburb I'm in now. Both did very well in college and grad school (engineering degrees), paid their ways through, landed great internships and employment and are now working in start ups which require employees to be self-starters and innovators. Both have traveled extensively on their own for work and fun. My daughter just bought a home in San Francisco using her own money. My son and his wife are about to do the same in Portland. They managed to do quite well despite being closely watched while they were young.

 

Obviously, you did something that allowed them to develop independent thinking skills then. A lot kids who are kept on a tight leash where I live (again an area recognized for walkability) don't seem to know what to do when faced something new/different/not planned on because parents are controlling everything they do.

 

A couple weeks ago someone on this board posted about the carpool falling through for her dd's extracurricular which was in a city and the group in the carpool needed to get home to the suburbs. These were kids who had been driven to the activity and driven home again. The kids figured out how to get a ride to a train station and take the commuter train to their suburb so that they could be picked up. This is good basic problem solving. There are many kids today who in the same situation would have sat down and just kept waiting, hoping a different parent would eventually show up or become panicked and frantically called home until someone came to rescue them. Kids need to learn to rescue themselves at some point.

[Murphy101]

You and me both Martha, because I don't acquiesce to nonsense easily! LOL

 

But, I think a lot of parents feel kind of over the barrel. I know that the local school district fines the parent for any detention unserved, and allows it to accumulate. No pay...no diploma. That's the promise, and they've done it too. I don't know if it would hold up in court because no one has ever challenged it.

 

They also with hold grades and transcripts for transferring/moving students if the fines aren't paid, and detention is not served in place of the fine.

What the blue blazes. Wasn't there just recently a thread about how unethical it was for parents to withhold needed documents from their student children?

 

Yet another blasted example of how if a parent does it, call CPS, but of course it's okay at schools. Ticks me off.

Guess it's a good thing I home school. For me and the schools. I have often half-jokingly said the locals schools don't want my kids bc I'm really not the parent they want to deal with when they give lip service to needing involved parents. ;)

 

I guess they have their ways, and in the younger grades, I've personally witnessed principals being cruel and unprofessional to younger children because they do not like the parents' choices. I attend regular school board meetings because I care about the education in my community. I am almost ALWAYS the only parent that does, and I don't have kids enrolled! I suspect that the lack of willingness to go have a say about what goes on allows this kind of thing to happen.

I suspect it's more that they think going to the meeting doesn't matter bc they have no ability to affect genuine change. And they don't feel they have the option to help their kid do more than endure with as few battle scars as possible. Bc they can't just send them to another school or quit their job to have time to fight the school.

[MBM]

Obviously, you did something that allowed them to develop independent thinking skills then. A lot kids who are kept on a tight leash where I live (again an area recognized for walkability) don't seem to know what to do when faced something new/different/not planned on because parents are controlling everything they do.

 

A couple weeks ago someone on this board posted about the carpool falling through for her dd's extracurricular which was in a city and the group in the carpool needed to get home to the suburbs. These were kids who had been driven to the activity and driven home again. The kids figured out how to get a ride to a train station and take the commuter train to their suburb so that they could be picked up. This is good basic problem solving. There are many kids today who in the same situation would have sat down and just kept waiting, hoping a different parent would eventually show up or become panicked and frantically called home until someone came to rescue them. Kids need to learn to rescue themselves at some point.

 

There are many ways to develop independence.

 

Frankly, I don't agree entirely with the article. It's possible also that some parts could be flawed. The graph, for example, shows two different perceptions and very likely neither are entirely accurate. Even though I or you or an employer might see some of this play out in everyday life, doesn't make it true for all.

 

The article reminds me of bitter old curmudgeons shaking their canes at today's young whippersnappers.

[FaithManor]

Hey Martha, I'd LOVE to call CPS on my local school district.

 

I bring up all kinds of violations at school board meetings too! You can guess how popular I am. Dh says that one of these days they are going to use tax dollars to hire a hit or put a bounty on my head! LOL I think it goes back to the American idea that children are to be "seen and not heard", ie. they are property, not people in their own right.

 

 

 

 

[hornblower]

Problem with walking in a lot of areas is that it's not set up for walkers.  Walking is quite a challenge in winter.  People are frequently hit by cars around here trying to walk. 

 

Kids have to walk to school here though if they live closer than a mile and a half.  I see plenty of walkers to school.  Some areas don't have sidewalks though and that's why a lot of them bus nearly everyone.

 

I see a fair number of kids walking here but we don't have sidewalks. They put sidewalks in all around the school & the playing field around it - so a huge block has sidewalks but all the feeder streets don't. Little narrow residential streets, cars parked on roads & no sidewalks. It's crazy.

 

[MomtoCandJ]

Heck I can't even get the bus driver to let dd1 off the bus if I'm not out at the stop. I would love it if I didn't have to wake dd2 up from her nap everyday just to go to the dirt road right next door to me to get dd1 off. We live on a highway (can be busy but not normally and there's a good 10 yards between the road and the ditch line where dd1 can walk).

[TechWife]

Going back to the original topic, I have a theory.

 

The skills that are being discussed in the article and in various responses are are soft skills. They are, by and large, skills one gains through experience. Over the past ten years or so, maybe more, there has been an ever increasing push within the American education system to get students "college ready." This has been accompanied by the many and various publications that tout "The best college for... ." Alongside this, there are now numerous books, website and various guidance counselors that are giving out information on how to prepare for the great college admissions quest. The result of this has been a generation of high school students who are, for lack of a better term, "packaged" for college. This packaging is not unique to only top tier universities. It happens at just about every level. This package most often seems to include multiple AP courses and exams, sports, scouts, leadership positions and volunteer hours. The one thing that seems missing, at least in my corner of the world, is for pay work experience. Students who go to colleges now have not worked for their cars, their auto insurance, their brand name clothes or their college expenses. They have never had to punch a time clock and do what was expected of them because they have financial responsibilities. They have never had to get along with their coworkers because they were expected to do so. They have never had to figure out how to fix a mistake that they or another coworker made. They've not had to spend 30 minutes trying to fix a jammed copy machine because they had to do something someone else was counting on. They have never depended on anyone else to carry their own weight so that they could get their job done, nor have they had to make sure they do something correctly because their coworker was counting on them so they could get their own job done. They have never had to call in sick (I mean really sick), fix a flat tire on their way to work or any of the other seemingly small tasks associated with the working world.

 

Now, I do recognize that academics are not easy and that students need to work to succeed in school. However, I think a lot of the things that are done in educational environments are done to create simulated experiences that can be experienced through the working world - team projects, study groups, sports and leadership activities are simulated real life experiences. Students in high school take AP tests to earn college credit. What happened to earning college credit in college? When did everything become an organized volunteer event instead of having neighbors help neighbors? I know many students who only do volunteer work because it is expected, not because they want to contribute or because they see it as a valid way of learning something new or gaining experience in something that interests them. I do know that in many areas of the country, paying jobs for teens have been hard to come by for economic reasons.

 

All of this brings me to the question: Are employers seeing college students that are unprepared for the work force because, by and large, the students have not truly worked before?

[momacacia]

1- less prepared 2- lazy 3- whiny 4- unable to think 5- unable to manage their time.

OMGosh!! This sounds like our morning of school! I've only got 8 years to get oldest's act together. I guess throwing myself on the couch won't produce forward movement....

[Murphy101]

OMGosh!! This sounds like our morning of school! I've only got 8 years to get oldest's act together. I guess throwing myself on the couch won't produce forward movement....

*snort lol*

[Matryoshka]

:lol: :lol: Clarification...We live where the schools shut down because snow is predicted. Snow prediction is not a good reason to not come to work. While some may think that a light flurry where there is a sprinkling of snow on the grass might be a good reason to not drive, it isn't. If you live on a main road that is plowed and salted early during average snowfall, it isn't. (Buy a danged snow shovel and get up earlier to shovel like we had to the last couple of weeks.) I am not talking about dangerous road conditions. He isn't asking them to do that. Real point is that just because the school system decides not to have school doesn't mean work should be closed too.

 

Yeah, I didn't read it that way - we've had 8 feet of snow in the last month.   I won't drive in ice at all - not safe, but if it's snowing 1" an hour or less then I'm good to go. ;)  We've just had a lot of storms that are 2+"/hour lately.  Nope, not driving in that.  Fortunately, it seems like everyone agrees.  There were driving bans (like, you'll be arrested if they catch you out) for a couple of the recent storms.

 

Prediction of snow or dusting - get in your car. ;)  It's just no one would even notice that here...

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I see a fair number of kids walking here but we don't have sidewalks. They put sidewalks in all around the school & the playing field around it - so a huge block has sidewalks but all the feeder streets don't. Little narrow residential streets, cars parked on roads & no sidewalks. It's crazy.

 

 

Even with sidewalks here, in winter it's a challenge.  Week ago took my kids for physicals.  I was trying to figure out how to get to the office's parking lot (lot of one way streets in that area so it's tricky).  DH told me to park in some lot down the street.  I didn't want to because I knew it would be a pain to walk.  He didn't understand what I was talking about (but he isn't the one carting the kids to these things and he doesn't walk anywhere either).  So I didn't figure out how to get to the doctor's office parking lot so I did end up in that stupid lot.  I'm not lazy.  I don't mind walking at all.  But some parts of the side walk weren't shoveled.  Where it was shoveled to cross there was half a foot of water.  Then many crossing spots weren't shoveled so you had to either walk far until you could find one or climb through three feet of soft snow.  By the time we got there we looked like we had rolled in mud.  It was such a freaking pain.  I can't imagine having to deal with that every day.

 

Lot of people here walk in the street which is a death wish, but I understand why they do it.  Trying to navigate the sidewalks is insane.  Too many people don't yield to pedestrians.  I once nearly got hit with my kids.  I had a cross light and I proceeded cautiously.  Someone came barreling out of nowhere.  I threw my bag at their car and screamed so they'd see us and not hit us.  And I'm supposed to feel comfortable letting my kids walk somewhere by themselves around here?  Hell even I freaking hate it.

 

And what gets me is the city talks about trying to deal with it, but so far their only approach has been to blame the pedestrians.  So they proposed to fine people rather than make things easier and better for pedestrians.  I think that's a freaking classest bull crap sham. 

[regentrude]

The one thing that seems missing, at least in my corner of the world, is for pay work experience....

All of this brings me to the question: Are employers seeing college students that are unprepared for the work force because, by and large, the students have not truly worked before?

 

While I believe that paid work can be a valuable experience, I do not think that high school students need to hold a paid job in order to develop those soft skills the article speaks of. I come from a culture where it is not the norm for teens to work, but I do not see that this in any way has young adults more inept or dependent than young people here who hold jobs.

 

It is perfectly possible to develop a strong work ethic and perseverance without paid work. School could do that, and extracurriculas can do that - and parenting should do that. These character traits should be in place before the kids are even old enough to hold a paid job.

[TechWife]

While I believe that paid work can be a valuable experience, I do not think that high school students need to hold a paid job in order to develop those soft skills the article speaks of. I come from a culture where it is not the norm for teens to work, but I do not see that this in any way has young adults more inept or dependent than young people here who hold jobs.

 

It is perfectly possible to develop a strong work ethic and perseverance without paid work. School could do that, and extracurriculas can do that - and parenting should do that. These character traits should be in place before the kids are even old enough to hold a paid job.

 

I recognize that this is the culture where you came from, but it is not the culture in the US - or at least it didn't used to be so. I know from recent reading people in other countries parent very differently than in the US, so perhaps the need for a parenting style change hasn't caught up with the reality of teens not working for pay. Maybe the fact that education through age 21 is required to be provided to the US student also keeps students from working as hard in school - after all, they are entitled to an education, so even if they blow it, they get to stay, even if they are rude to the teacher, they get to stay, if they are disruptive, they get to stay. As for perseverance and work ethic - as an adult I am still developing these soft skills. Every time something new is required of me, I learn more about working and perseverance, so I while I can see that these soft skills need to be in place to a degree, we all continually develop. The goal, really, is to have them in place to a degree that people can function, of course. 

 

As a teen, I had limited involvement in extra curricular activities by today's standards (marching/symphonic band & one club). However, I worked around 30 hours per week during most months of the school year. My peers had a similar activity/work load, although most of them put in fewer hours at work.  We were on the college prep track. 

[Laura Corin]

All of this brings me to the question: Are employers seeing college students that are unprepared for the work force because, by and large, the students have not truly worked before?

 

What about working in holidays/vacations?  I'm really pleased that Calvin will be working in a real off-campus job this holiday, and if all goes well he should be able to continue in future holidays.  It's a book shop, and his holidays coincide with busy periods when they will need more staff: Easter and summer tourist seasons; Christmas.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think not working some sort of job at least through college in the summer is pretty unusual. 

[Laura Corin]

I think not working some sort of job at least through college in the summer is pretty unusual. 

 

That's what I had thought.  So why do employers feel that graduates don't have quite basic working skills?

[Murphy101]

While I believe that paid work can be a valuable experience, I do not think that high school students need to hold a paid job in order to develop those soft skills the article speaks of. I come from a culture where it is not the norm for teens to work, but I do not see that this in any way has young adults more inept or dependent than young people here who hold jobs.

 

It is perfectly possible to develop a strong work ethic and perseverance without paid work. School could do that, and extracurriculas can do that - and parenting should do that. These character traits should be in place before the kids are even old enough to hold a paid job.

I agree. My kids had those skills before they graduated from home and before they ever got their first summer job.

 

It's not about training.

It's about an attitude that is a given expectation and always has been.

 

I don't remember anyone I knew growing up being trained or taught to be on time and so forth. Either you did it or you were fired. As it should be. Job coaching was more about how to make resumes, business etiquette, and that type of thing.

 

You train a person to do a job. This is an external matter of exchanging knowledge.

You can't train them to want to do it and do care about doing it well. This is an issue of internal personal motivation. You can't train that.

 

At the very least, one would think being fired would train a person to show up on time for the next job. But it never did and I doubt it does now either.

[Murphy101]

I think not working some sort of job at least through college in the summer is pretty unusual.

It used to be nearly unheard of but has become more and more common bc so many businesses either aren't hiring or don't hire seasonal gigs. They have a dirth of regular employees who aren't even getting full time hours who jump at the chance for more hours.

 

Summer jobs exist, but they aren't as plentiful as they used to be. And if you don't live local, you might have a hard time getting first dibs on them.

 

And many students try to do internships or take summer classes instead in the hopes of those things helping them get ahead.

[Murphy101]

As a teen, I had limited involvement in extra curricular activities by today's standards (marching/symphonic band & one club). However, I worked around 30 hours per week during most months of the school year. My peers had a similar activity/work load, although most of them put in fewer hours at work. We were on the college prep track.

I never had any extracurriculiars at all and worked full time from middle school on. I knew other teens works just as hard, but I wouldn't say I was the norm in my particuliar school. Very few at my school did bc at that time, it was considered the rich public school.

 

I'm not sure what that has to do with work ethic though. No one "trained" me that way. It just was bc that's what was needed to be done. No one trained me on how to wipe butts or dress my kids either, but go figure it needed done, so I got out of bed and did it.

 

Is society regressing instead of evolving to the point that no one can figure out basic things in daily life? :o

[bettyandbob]

 

I'm not sure what that has to do with work ethic though. No one "trained" me that way. It just was bc that's what was needed to be done. No one trained me on how to wipe butts or dress my kids either, but go figure it needed done, so I got out of bed and did it.

 

Is society regressing instead of evolving to the point that no one can figure out basic things in daily life? :o

I get what you are saying. I worked. It never occurred to me to not work. It never occurred to me not to do a good job.

 

Perhaps the "training" was just absorbing family expectation.

[FaithManor]

I have actually seen reverse evolution. In the event that I witnessed, it involved a group of 12 year old boys and a pizza buffet.

 

Possibly, this should not be held against the majority of people as proof that the human race is headed back to the Jurassic age, but just the same, it was rather savage! :lol:

[JumpyTheFrog]

Oh come on, now you have to share the story!