Sophomore commits suicide; fellow students laugh, crack jokes

[stupidusername]

My daughter attends a local public high school. Yesterday, a 10th grade boy she knew committed suicide. The school announced the news. According to my daughter, most of her fellow students reacted by laughing and making jokes. I wish I could say that it was some kind of defense mechanism, but no. Except for those who knew him, "nobody cares," my daughter said.

 

 

What the hell is wrong with these people?

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

I am so incredibly sorry, for his family, for your daughter and for the kids who apparently don't even care. How horribly sad and depressing.  So the school just made an announcement over the intercom?  Did they offer counseling?  Support for friends of the victim?

[SarahW]

Ugh. It reminds me of an incident in my Christian high school. A girl got a call that a good friends of hers who attended another school had committed suicide. After classes let out she found her boyfriend for a shoulder to cry on. His response? "I don't want to hear you talking about other boys."

 

Yes, her friend who died was a boy. I hope that when she was done grieving she decked that boyfriend something good.

[OneStepAtATime]

Ugh. It reminds me of an incident in my Christian high school. A girl got a call that a good friends of hers who attended another school had committed suicide. After classes let out she found her boyfriend for a shoulder to cry on. His response? "I don't want to hear you talking about other boys."

 

Yes, her friend who died was a boy. I hope that when she was done grieving she decked that boyfriend something good.

And dumped him rapidly.  Sorry, lack of sympathy for the death of another human being, especially a friend, is a red flag for me that they are NOT dating material.  Poor girl.  How utterly awful.

[maize]

I do think it is a defense mechanism of sorts. Laughing at something us a way of making it seem not serious or relevant to their lives. A way of making themselves not care.

[Tiramisu]

I just heard of a sixth grader who committed suicide. 

 

So sad.

[stupidusername]

I am so incredibly sorry, for his family, for your daughter and for the kids who apparently don't even care. How horribly sad and depressing.  So the school just made an announcement over the intercom?  Did they offer counseling?  Support for friends of the victim?

 

I believe there were announcements made in person in classes as well as over the Intercom and via email. Officials said the student had "passed away" but it is widespread knowledge that he committed suicide. Yes, the school is offering counseling services.

[creekland]

What level class was your daughter in?  Sadly, our school has had suicides over the years too.   In general, the higher the "level" class the more the kids truly understand what it means and the more respect (and sadness) they have (assuming they didn't know the student).

 

I honestly think it has more to do with maturity and how the brain develops with the understanding of death than it does with any statement they are purposely making.

[OneStepAtATime]

I just heard of a sixth grader who committed suicide. 

 

So sad.

I am sorry.  That is awful.

[Garga]

That sort of thing was my experience in school.  I graduated in 90.  I remember thinking, "What sort of monsters am I caged here with???"  It started in 3rd grade when I was laughed at for crying at a movie where a boy's cat died in the end.  I was utterly shocked that my fellow 3rd graders laughed at the boy in the movie who was sobbing over his cat and laughed at me for crying.  

 

I remember all the jokes when Challenger crashed (middle school).  They made the jokes as they watched it crash and then for the week afterwards.  Everything was a joke.  The boys made rape jokes (middle and high school). Nothing was sacred, nothing was serious, everything was stupid or funny.  If anyone showed a tender emotion they were teased and made fun of publicly. Lord of the Flies.

 

I was a very tender kid and totally shut down for 9 solid years.  School was an utter torment to me.  I found the kids to be brutal and was terrified of most of them.  I've told my story before, but school is why I waited for so long to have kids of my own.  I thought kids were little monsters and I didn't want to have a monster living in my home with me.

 

I know now they're not all like that, but as a sensitive kid thrust in with the sorts of kids who laugh at death, it impacted me and made me think all kids were that way.  I've grown since then and found that they're not.  

 

But, as you can see, I homeschool.  I think schools are terrible places.

[lazzaroni]

Wow ! Garga - you and I are long lost sisters. I had the exact same experience. I am still atonished at the complete lack of empathy in our society. I now have an empathetic sensitive child of my own and wow do I worry about him being subjected to that kind of brutality. It is yet another reason we homeschool. To tje OP , I am so sorry for your daughter's experience as well as for the family that lost their precious child. Just.so.sad. on all levels.

[stupidusername]

What level class was your daughter in?  Sadly, our school has had suicides over the years too.   In general, the higher the "level" class the more the kids truly understand what it means and the more respect (and sadness) they have (assuming they didn't know the student).

 

I honestly think it has more to do with maturity and how the brain develops with the understanding of death than it does with any statement they are purposely making.

 

my daughter is in 9th grade.

[stupidusername]

That sort of thing was my experience in school.  I graduated in 90.  I remember thinking, "What sort of monsters am I caged here with???"  It started in 3rd grade when I was laughed at for crying at a movie where a boy's cat died in the end.  I was utterly shocked that my fellow 3rd graders laughed at the boy in the movie who was sobbing over his cat and laughed at me for crying.  

 

I remember all the jokes when Challenger crashed (middle school).  They made the jokes as they watched it crash and then for the week afterwards.  Everything was a joke.  The boys made rape jokes (middle and high school). Nothing was sacred, nothing was serious, everything was stupid or funny.  If anyone showed a tender emotion they were teased and made fun of publicly. Lord of the Flies.

 

I was a very tender kid and totally shut down for 9 solid years.  School was an utter torment to me.  I found the kids to be brutal and was terrified of most of them.  I've told my story before, but school is why I waited for so long to have kids of my own.  I thought kids were little monsters and I didn't want to have a monster living in my home with me.

 

I know now they're not all like that, but as a sensitive kid thrust in with the sorts of kids who laugh at death, it impacted me and made me think all kids were that way.  I've grown since then and found that they're not.  

 

But, as you can see, I homeschool.  I think schools are terrible places.

 

Coincidentally, my daughter is reading Lord of the Flies in English right now. In her Government class, she is learning about Hobbes.

[mommymilkies]

This happened locally with an 11-12 year old boy who committed suicide.  Tragic and so disturbing the way some people reacted. :(

[stupidusername]

That sort of thing was my experience in school.  I graduated in 90.  I remember thinking, "What sort of monsters am I caged here with???"  It started in 3rd grade when I was laughed at for crying at a movie where a boy's cat died in the end.  I was utterly shocked that my fellow 3rd graders laughed at the boy in the movie who was sobbing over his cat and laughed at me for crying.  

 

I remember all the jokes when Challenger crashed (middle school).  They made the jokes as they watched it crash and then for the week afterwards.  Everything was a joke.  The boys made rape jokes (middle and high school). Nothing was sacred, nothing was serious, everything was stupid or funny.  If anyone showed a tender emotion they were teased and made fun of publicly. Lord of the Flies.

 

I was a very tender kid and totally shut down for 9 solid years.  School was an utter torment to me.  I found the kids to be brutal and was terrified of most of them.  I've told my story before, but school is why I waited for so long to have kids of my own.  I thought kids were little monsters and I didn't want to have a monster living in my home with me.

 

I know now they're not all like that, but as a sensitive kid thrust in with the sorts of kids who laugh at death, it impacted me and made me think all kids were that way.  I've grown since then and found that they're not.  

 

But, as you can see, I homeschool.  I think schools are terrible places.

 

Unfortunately, you are correct. School is great fun if you're popular. For the rest of us, not so much.

[creekland]

my daughter is in 9th grade.

 

9th graders - esp boys - are definitely still in the maturing stage IME (speaking as one who works with 9th - 12th graders on a regular basis).

 

Some of the other differences folks have mentioned are mainly differences in wiring between the thinkers and the feelers (from personality testing).  It's VERY easy for some to empathize with others (cry at sad movies, etc) and considerably tougher for others (these tend to look at all situations rationally).

 

I lean on the Thinker side of things naturally, but maturity (and experience) has definitely brought out more empathy over the years.  For the majority of students in the class, it will do the same, but they need more laps around the sun and experience to "get it."

 

It's common at school to have kids (esp boys) laugh at the death of a cat or other pet - until they experience a loss themselves.  Then they get it.  It can work the same way with a person they don't know.

 

I think it's all part of the source for the quote:

 

Don't judge a man (person) until you've walked a mile in their moccasins. 

 

Thinkers can easily judge - until they've BTDT and truly "get" the feelings.  Feelers mainly judge the thinkers (and rarely understand them as they seldom switch categories).

[stupidusername]

I do think it is a defense mechanism of sorts. Laughing at something us a way of making it seem not serious or relevant to their lives. A way of making themselves not care.

 

Earlier this year, these same kids were upset after a girl at the same school unsuccessfully attempted suicide. No, they weren't concerned about the girl's well-being. Had she succeeded the students would have been dismissed early from school. This seems more like cruelty than a defense mechanism.

[stupidusername]

9th graders - esp boys - are definitely still in the maturing stage IME (speaking as one who works with 9th - 12th graders on a regular basis).

 

Some of the other differences folks have mentioned are mainly differences in wiring between the thinkers and the feelers (from personality testing).  It's VERY easy for some to empathize with others (cry at sad movies, etc) and considerably tougher for others (these tend to look at all situations rationally).

 

I lean on the Thinker side of things naturally, but maturity (and experience) has definitely brought out more empathy over the years.  For the majority of students in the class, it will do the same, but they need more laps around the sun and experience to "get it."

 

It's common at school to have kids (esp boys) laugh at the death of a cat or other pet - until they experience a loss themselves.  Then they get it.  It can work the same way with a person they don't know.

 

I think it's all part of the source for the quote:

 

Don't judge a man (person) until you've walked a mile in their moccasins. 

 

Thinkers can easily judge - until they've BTDT and truly "get" the feelings.  Feelers mainly judge the thinkers (and rarely understand them as they seldom switch categories).

 

 To my mind, the reaction of these kids was heartless and cruel.  Yes, I am judging.

[lazzaroni]

Sorry but in my opinion, common decency dictates a different response than just laughing and joking at a tragic event like this one. Making excuses for a young person's lack of empathy by noting differences in personality types sounds to me like a cop-out. Just for the record, I test as an intellectual not an emotional person but I have always been empathetic to my fellow creatures. I am not attacking anyone just vehemently disagreeing because of the complete disregard for human decency which is so prevalent in our society.

 

[Mergath]

I don't think there is any excuse for such cruel behavior, no matter a person's age.  My kid is six, and even she would never dare to joke about someone dying, no matter how she actually felt about it on the inside.  That's what I don't get. I don't necessarily expect kids that age to feel empathy over stuff like this, because you can't make yourself feel things, but good lord, shouldn't they know better than to joke and laugh about it?  What kind of sociopaths are people raising?  I went to school with some of the worst bullies I can imagine, and even they would have known better than to joke about a suicide. :(

[SparklyUnicorn]

You can't believe some of the crap that goes on in the schools here.  There were 3 girls who committed suicide.  According to a cousin of one of the girls, other students were making fun of her and harassing her and saying stuff like maybe she should kill herself too.  It's beyond bad.  And when the parent of the girl talked to the district officials they claimed there was nothing they could do. Even the parents get in on it.  One school had major issues with fights, including parents fighting each other after school at the school.  No way in hell would I send my kids to school here. 

[El...]

Some of these stories are really horrible. 

 

I think joking about scary things is a human tendency.  (Ever hear military pilots use the phrase "lawn dart"?  Yeah.)  Maybe it gives us distance from what we fear; if that person was a loser, dumb, or somehow weaker than we are, we feel safer.  

 

However, these examples are gross.  Is it worse because the herd of kids are all the same age?  Is there no mature influence (and I realize teachers don't have so much social power)?

[SunnyDays]

Lacking empathy and maturity is one thing... I wouldn't expect kids that age to always know the right things to say, for example.  But to laugh at a tragic death?  Sorry, but as others said, that's lacking human decency.  If a child is old enough to understand what death means (and a teen certainly is), then he or she is old enough to at least act respectfully about the matter.  How awful.

 

[Meadowlark]

I had never before thought of homeschooling high school. Now, I am. This is tragic.

[Garga]

I don't know what the problem is with kids in groups in school.  I'm positive that there are many kids there who are nice kids but they get drowned out by the jerks.  When I was a child I only noticed the jerks because all the rest were being quiet and intimidated.

 

This sort of thing helps one understand how atrocities occur--in the past or currently.  There are enough people out there that are cold enough not to care about the pain of others and it starts early.

 

Also, I test strongly as a thinker and not a feeler yet I was the one crying about the pets and getting teased for it.  I think that was a good attempt at an explanation (thinkers vs feelers), but is one that can be easily disproven and doesn't hold weight.

 

And yes, I do judge once they're at the high school level.  Under 12 years old and I figure you're still in that little-kid fog.  Once you're a teenager, you should have the decency not to make fun of someone who kills themselves even if you secretly think it's funny.  You should know acceptable social behavior by then. To mock a person's death at that age is just being a jerk and choosing to be that way.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I had never before thought of homeschooling high school. Now, I am. This is tragic.

 

I know.  It won't be an easy road for me to homeschool high school, but the alternative seems lousier so I'm going for it.

[Rosie_0801]

At least they have the excuse of not being grown up yet.

 

I had a little encounter with someone who works in an industry where morbid humour is a necessity, but was definitely old enough to look right and left before indulging. I hope she felt bad for the rest of the afternoon...

[Squawky Acres]

Garga, I test strongly as a thinker on the Myers Briggs tests, and relate a lot to your school experience.  I was teased all the time and frequently called a baby for having empathy and reacting to things that mattered.  I am certainly not an overly emotional person, but sometimes thinking deeply is what makes one feel so much.

 

I recognize that in my oldest daughter, and love that I am able to help nurture this sensitive and gifted soul at home.

[Farrar]

You know what's acceptable behavior as a teen, but your brain is so haywire and you're by nature incredibly impulsive that it's hard to always live up to that.

 

As described, it really is inexcusable. But I also think it's hard to be a teen. And lecturing teens on what jerks they are or projecting our own horrible teen experiences isn't really a good solution to helping them learn better empathy and skills.

 

If someone I didn't know had committed suicide at my school, I'm not sure how I would have reacted at that age. I would like to say that I would have cared... but if I didn't know the person, I don't know that I would have felt much beyond a vague sense of shock and being ill at ease. When I was in middle school, a fellow student who I didn't know at all was killed in an accident. I remember feeling like I should care, but not really feeling any emotion over it. I hadn't known him. He may as well have been a student who died in an accident halfway around the world. I knew his girlfriend. She was sad and I do remember caring about that. I think when the OP says that "except for the people who knew him" that no one cares that rings true to me and doesn't seem abnormal or horrible. Laughing and cracking jokes is, but it's hard to care about someone who you don't know. It feels pretty distant.

[SunnyDays]

Farrar, I'm with you in that I wouldn't expect everyone to react deeply to the news, especially if they hadn't known the girl.  We too had a couple instances of this when I was in school.  They were people that I didn't know well at all, and I felt as you described... a generally feeling of unease and a bit of sadness.

 

I'm not saying that everyone has to mourn deeply.  Just that everyone should act respectfully. 

[8circles]

I don't know. I don't want to have unrealistic expectations but I don't have any difficulty feeling sorrow for bad things happening to people I don't know. A few years ago a father in my neighborhood shot himself in the cornfield, 2 blocks from my house. I didn't know him, didn't recognize his name, didn't know his kids, had never laid eyes on him. You betcha I felt sad about it and shed some tears.

 

My recollections of highschool are similar to Garga's. If such cruel behavior is normal, I'm a freak of nature.

[readinmom]

It's been my experience in the ps setting that kids react in different ways.  There is no rhyme nor reason to it.  When you think about it, it is not a social skill that we readily teach our kids.  My school has had its share of these the past 8 years.  One was particularly traumatic for the student body, another was  much as you describe. Some kids went for the counseling sessions just to get out of class, which angered the student's friends greatly and caused fights.  

 

The only thing I can advise is to make sure that your dd is okay, and has talked it out and dealt with feelings, whether she knew the boy or not.  How she deals with it in a positive way can be a model for those who don't have supportive, intuitive parents.  

[desertflower]

They don't have God in their hearts.

 

They don't have to cry over someone they don't know, but they don't have to laugh either.

[Sugarfoot]

That's just horrible. I'm so sorry your daughter had to deal with that.

 

I just wanted to add that this wasn't anything like my school experience at all. I moved between elementary and middle school to a very different type of school, and this type of thing never occured anywhere during K-12. I remember some pretty bad things happening to families, and each time kids, teachers, and parents supported each other. School wasn't perfect, and I could've come up with places I'd have rather been, but overall It really was a pretty happy place to be.

 

Just a little hope that it's not so bleak everywhere....

[Mergath]

They don't have God in their hearts.

 

They don't have to cry over someone they don't know, but they don't have to laugh either.

 

Yeah, well, neither do I and I've been known to cry over commercials.  God is not required to feel empathy.

[Mabelen]

I have to say that this is most definitely deplorable but it is not what happens at all schools.

 

My older dd attended public school in a diverse, high achieving district. They did have a couple of incidents of a similar nature. One possible suicide/sudden death in his sleep, one murder (close relative with mental condition refusing medication) and one nation wide known rape/murder. I don't recall any mass inappropriate reactions like that. Everyone she knew or was in class with seemed to have a normal reaction. The whole school and the district seemed to grieve appropriately and rally around together for mutual support.

[desertflower]

Yeah, well, neither do I and I've been known to cry over commercials. God is not required to feel empathy.

*sigh* I didn't mean that if one doesn't believe in the good Lord, then one does not have empathy. It's obvious that these kids don't. No God in their life and no empathy. That's pretty sad.

 

If they are old enough to babysit, then they are old enough to know the difference between right and wrong.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Good post Farrar.

 

This thread bugs me. I'm sure many kids were empathetic. In sure many used humor to push away the reality of death. Im sure some kids at the school are pathologically laughing. But probably very few.

 

I think these sorts of threads are just bashing schools teens and society and are used as an excuse to put kids in a bubble to protect them from a reality which doesn't exist. Yes some high schoolers are bad people. Most are kids like your kid.

 

I don't quite get what you mean.  I think people just wonder why some react this way. 

 

Homeschooled kids aren't overall nicer either. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

This is the impression one kid has of the situation.  She is upset and is coping with her feelings.  Perhaps she is unknowingly exaggerating the negative reaction of others.

 

In my school days I recall a fellow student dying.  The guy was a bit of a jerk tba.  But upon his death he immediately became a saint and many of the kids suddenly discovered some sort of deep relationship they'd had with him.  The faux mourning and the drama mongering got on my nerves a lot but I understood that their reactions were mostly about them confronting loss and death of a peer likely for the first time and not about the kid who had died.  

 

Yeah I knew of a few students who died as well.  I found it particularly ridiculous when a not so well known student or a student who was known to be picked on a lot suddenly became beloved to students.  Like gee wouldn't it be nicer to be nice to someone while they are still alive?!

[J-rap]

Part of me thinks they just have no real understanding of suicide and life/death experience, and got caught up in the group reaction.

 

But, it also seems horrible, crass, and self-centered to me. 

 

I actually have never encountered that mentality at schools, both in ones I attended growing up or at the local public high school my kids took classes at from time to time.  Maybe our experiences were exceptions, I don't know.  At our local public school, even the naughtiest kids seem to have a heart.