Jill Duggar Dillard is pregnant.

[idnib]

We live in the SF Bay area and while I only have two, if I go out with my friend who has a large family, people make comments all. the. time. And not nice ones, either. 

[Dory]

I grew up in a family with seven kids and we got rude comments all the time. When I had my first two everyone seemed to think we should be done because we had a boy and a girl. Stats Canada says the number of children per family is only 1.1 in Alberta.

[maize]

Where in CA? I live in the LA area and there are families of all sizes here. I've never heard one parent complain about a rude comment regarding a 4+ family size but I have heard several complaints from my childless by choice friends that they should have kids, aren't a real family, yadda yadda yadda.

 

Frowning down upon a larger family just isn't the norm here.

The fact that they aren't complaining doesn't mean they aren't getting comments. I don't think I mentioned my experience to anyone except friends in similar circumstances.

[Catwoman]

In what fresh hell do you live? That is absolutely not my reality. I know very few families locally with less than 4 children.

Really? That is absolutely not the case here.

[Crimson Wife]

When we lived in California people definitely looked askance at--and felt free to make rude comments to--a mom with more than two kids in tow.

 

Where I live now larger families are relatively common, but given that the birthrate overall for the US is below two children per women, I'm thinking your area must not be typical if most families have four or more children.

 

California is definitely worse than Boston in terms of nasty comments, but hardly any of my high school or college friends or relatives in my generation have more than 2 kids no matter where in the U.S. they live. The exceptions are either (A) Mormon ( B ) had 2 of the same sex first or ( C ) had multiples when trying for #2.

 

Using Census Bureau data, 18.8% of American women aged 40-44 have 0 kids, 18.5% have 1, 33.3% have 2, 19.1% have 3, 6.8% have 4, and 3.5% have 5+.

 

So yeah, having 0 or 1 kids is FAR more common in the U.S. than having 4+.

[idnib]

It was pointed out to me today that the person I was speaking to had no sympathy for us having 5 in college this semester (with dh unemployed). My pat answer now is that "Someone has to pay your SS! Some of us still believe babies are a blessing!" And then to walk away. Grouchy people are going to be grouchy, but I don't have to listen to them... 

 

Yep, haters gonna hate.

 

Are these commenters even aware of the amazing accomplishments and productivity of your children? If they are, then they should be doubly ashamed.

[maize]

California is definitely worse than Boston in terms of nasty comments, but hardly any of my high school or college friends or relatives in my generation have more than 2 kids no matter where in the U.S. they live. The exceptions are either (A) Mormon ( B ) had 2 of the same sex first or ( C ) had multiples when trying for #2.

 

Using Census Bureau data, 18.8% of American women aged 40-44 have 0 kids, 18.5% have 1, 33.3% have 2, 19.1% have 3, 6.8% have 4, and 3.5% have 5+.

 

So yeah, having 0 or 1 kids is FAR more common in the U.S. than having 4+.

Thanks for posting the statistics.

[Scrub Jay]

California is definitely worse than Boston in terms of nasty comments, but hardly any of my high school or college friends or relatives in my generation have more than 2 kids no matter where in the U.S. they live. The exceptions are either (A) Mormon ( B ) had 2 of the same sex first or ( C ) had multiples when trying for #2.

 

Using Census Bureau data, 18.8% of American women aged 40-44 have 0 kids, 18.5% have 1, 33.3% have 2, 19.1% have 3, 6.8% have 4, and 3.5% have 5+.

 

So yeah, having 0 or 1 kids is FAR more common in the U.S. than having 4+.

 

But over 62% have children while a mere 18.8% do not.  So the point that it is counter cultural to have children remains completely untrue.

 

And, regarding large families and comments - some people are jerks.  Heck, I have had comments with my 2 and my dog.  I never once thought it was a cultural reality because some people like to say stupid things to strangers.

 

[gardenmom5]

In what fresh hell do you live?  That is absolutely not my reality.  I know very few families locally with less than 4 children.

 

I grew up in the seattle area.  this is what I was raised with.  1 or 2 kids - boy and girl was the "perfect" family.  I started getting some really rude comments from complete strangers when I was obviously pg with #3.  (and have gotten them ever since.  now, since only dudeling is home, very few people know I have more than one.)

 

 

eta: I heard that message as a child too - including at times that since I was an extra, I should have been aborted. (not sure it was legal when I was born - and a director for PP lived across the street from us.  even as a child in a very liberal family, I thought she was weird.)  I was a third.  (thank you orson scott card.)

 

[gardenmom5]

I just said this because she got some negative tests and then a positive and its so early on. Normally I wouldnt, but I would make sure my "positives" outweighed my "negatives" before making a big announcement. 

 

pg tests measure HCg.  it is ONLY produced during pg.  false negatives are very common (a baseline level is required to be detectable) - false positives are rare and usually an indicator something else medically is going on (from a recent pregnancy to an ovarian cyst).

 

[ocelotmom]

I haven't gotten anything more negative than "Oh, you must be busy!" about 4 around here, but LDS and Catholic are the two biggest denominations. Large families aren't exactly uncommon, nor is 4 notably large.

[MomtoCandJ]

Hmmm I wish people would quit asking when we are going to have another one. We don't want any more children (we are preparing for the worst we are willed guardians for 10 kids, thankfully from a few families). Dd2 is only 7 months old, there are 5 YEARS between our girls, and there's a few reasons for that. We are happy with our 2 girls and don't feel the need to have a boy, besides I already had a procedure done to prevent anymore pregnancies :). If we really really want another child, we will adopt one.

[Catwoman]

California is definitely worse than Boston in terms of nasty comments, but hardly any of my high school or college friends or relatives in my generation have more than 2 kids no matter where in the U.S. they live. The exceptions are either (A) Mormon ( B ) had 2 of the same sex first or ( C ) had multiples when trying for #2.

 

Using Census Bureau data, 18.8% of American women aged 40-44 have 0 kids, 18.5% have 1, 33.3% have 2, 19.1% have 3, 6.8% have 4, and 3.5% have 5+.

 

So yeah, having 0 or 1 kids is FAR more common in the U.S. than having 4+.

Thank you for finding and posting the statistics! :)

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

I grew up in the seattle area. this is what I was raised with. 1 or 2 kids - boy and girl was the "perfect" family. I started getting some really rude comments from complete strangers when I was obviously pg with #3. (and have gotten them ever since. now, since only dudeling is home, very few people know I have more than one.)

 

 

eta: I heard that message as a child too - including at times that since I was an extra, I should have been aborted. (not sure it was legal when I was born - and a director for PP lived across the street from us. even as a child in a very liberal family, I thought she was weird.) I was a third. (thank you orson scott card.)

 

I thought Card wrote Ender's Game in 85? Loved the reference, though. :D

[KungFuPanda]

What I really couldn't understand is getting comments from fellow Catholics. The immigrant families in my parish were great, especially the Filipinos. But the whites seemed to have forgotten that our faith teaches babies are blessings.

  

 

I got pregnant during RCIA for extra credit.

 

Well, if it ever becomes not the norm for women to have babies we just may see the human race on the endangered species list...

Unless of course you expect the men to start having babies?

:D

Life will find a way! Did you learn nothing from Jurassic Park?

[Audrey]

Really? That is absolutely not the case here.

 

 

I'm surrounded by Mennonites and Catholics.  Families used to have big families (6-7 and more) and now they have "small families" (3-5).  I realize that a bit of a regional anomaly, but still.... no one is mocking large families here.  If anything, it's the reverse.

[gardenmom5]

yeah he did.   I read it not long after it came out.  but I so loved the reference - and the truism in the statement.

I thought Card wrote Ender's Game in 85? Loved the reference, though. :D

 

[Aelwydd]

I have been the mom of an only child for 14 years now, and I can honestly tell you that no one has ever commented negatively about it. The only people I know who have received snotty comments are the moms who have several children, because their families seem to stand out from the crowd. People say some very mean things to them, and I think it's horrible.

 

I'm so sorry people have said such rotten things to you! I do think it must be regional or something, though, because small families seem to be the norm here. My brother and SIL had four children and got a lot of comments about how they must be "really good Catholics." :rolleyes:

 

I don't know why anyone would care about how many children another family chooses to have. That stuff isn't even on my radar. I mean, sure, I make jokes about the Duggars having a million children, but I think I also make it pretty clear that they seem to be a happy family and that's all that matters. And heaven knows, if I ever met Michelle Duggar, I would sincerely tell her that she has a beautiful family. I certainly wouldn't comment on the number of kids. It's none of my business, anyway!

When you say "it must be regional or something," it feels very much like you are minimizing my experiences. I'm glad you have never run across such rudeness, but that doesn't mean what I described is merely some local phenomenon that few people encounter.

 

I already told you I have lived in three different regions of the country, one being Philadelphia for 7 years. That's where my son was born. I got anti only child remarks on several occasions, but the rudest were from a particular group of conservative catholics in our social sphere. Believe it or not, they do exist outside internet forums, Cat, even in liberal NE U.S.

 

Most people are more circumspect, and do not feel the terrible urge to berate others for the number of kids they have. But, there is always the subset. Maybe it's that I have lived in several places, and been exposed to a wide variety of people and ideas, but yes, I have had ample opportunity to be exposed to crass opinions.

 

If you were to start a poll here and ask other parents of onlies about their real time, non-internet based encounters with rudeness in public places like schools, playgrounds, stores, church meetings, even from the pulpit, and what area they lived in when it happened, it would safely lay to rest any expectation that such attitudes are merely local to one part or another.

 

Which is, again, why I am sensitive to the feelings of large family moms who get hassled and heckled in public. I know how it feels to get suddenly put on the spot and expected to explain or defend your freaking family size to some overbearing jerk.

[Aelwydd]

And Cat, I am sorry if my tone is a little defensive. I don't mean to pick an argument. But, what I feel is while a lot of secular groups think that mocking large families is good sport, there are several religious traditions that are just as contemptuous of small families for not choosing to have more children. And both sides have their snotty emissaries.

[Catwoman]

When you say "it must be regional or something," it feels very much like you are minimizing my experiences. I'm glad you have never run across such rudeness, but that doesn't mean what I described is merely some local phenomenon that few people encounter.

 

I already told you I have lived in three different regions of the country, one being Philadelphia for 7 years. That's where my son was born. I got anti only child remarks on several occasions, but the rudest were from a particular group of conservative catholics in our social sphere. Believe it or not, they do exist outside internet forums, Cat, even in liberal NE U.S.

 

Most people are more circumspect, and do not feel the terrible urge to berate others for the number of kids they have. But, there is always the subset. Maybe it's that I have lived in several places, and been exposed to a wide variety of people and ideas, but yes, I have had ample opportunity to be exposed to crass opinions.

 

If you were to start a poll here and ask other parents of onlies about their real time, non-internet based encounters with rudeness in public places like schools, playgrounds, stores, church meetings, even from the pulpit, and what area they lived in when it happened, it would safely lay to rest any expectation that such attitudes are merely local to one part or another.

 

Which is, again, why I am sensitive to the feelings of large family moms who get hassled and heckled in public. I know how it feels to get suddenly put on the spot and expected to explain or defend your freaking family size to some overbearing jerk.

I'm sorry if you got the mistaken impression that I was minimizing your experiences. That wasn't my intention, and I did say I was sorry people had said such rotten things to you.

 

However, I'm not sure why you seem to think your experiences somehow invalidate mine. I have lived my entire life in the "liberal Northeast," as you call it, and while you may have received many negative comments when you lived here, that has quite simply not been my experience, as it is far more common to see small families than large ones, and the only people I know who have been the object of disparaging comments have been large families.

 

Frankly, I'm wondering where you have heard all these horrible comments, and how often that sort of thing happened to you. It's not like most people are walking around Rittenhouse Square in Philadelphia looking for a mom with only one child so they can confront her and say mean things to her about how she doesn't have enough kids. Why would anyone be paying attention to you at all? Does anyone really walk around the city, counting the number of children walking with each mom?

 

If you're only talking about comments from super-conservative Catholics, I can tell you that those are pretty rare where I live, so I only know one family like that -- and although that mom has seven children, I never once heard her say a single negative thing to any of the other moms at homeschool events. She lives her life and everyone else lives theirs. There are tons of Catholics around here. but very few have large families, and no one goes around preaching their religious beliefs to others. If they did, people would be quite shocked (and annoyed.)

 

Again, I'm not sure why my post made you so defensive. I will say, though, that if you often find yourself subjected to negative comments about the size of your family, perhaps you're hanging around with the wrong people, because it truly doesn't happen to everyone. You seem like a nice person and no one should be judging you or your family that way!

[Catwoman]

And Cat, I am sorry if my tone is a little defensive. I don't mean to pick an argument. But, what I feel is while a lot of secular groups think that mocking large families is good sport, there are several religious traditions that are just as contemptuous of small families for not choosing to have more children. And both sides have their snotty emissaries.

I was typing while you were posting. :blush:

 

Sorry if my post was defensive, too!!! (OK, and it was snotty, too, but I'm leaving it because I hate it when people delete posts. If I say something rude, I think it's only fair to own it and apologize for it.)

 

It's so weird that anyone feels entitled to tell another person what size family they should have.

[Aelwydd]

I didn't say these encounters happened often. I said they happened enough at times, and in different locales, to be indicative of some cultural ideas about what is and is not an ideal family. I didn't keep statistics on it. I even said most people don't say things like that. But a few? Yes. They sometimes choose to go there.

 

Where did I say that most people were looking to be insulting? Those particular catholics were just a part of a small but annoying group of rude people.

 

As to why people say rude things, why are you asking me their motives? I don't really know, and it doesn't change the fact that they would say things like, "your poor son will be so lonely, especially after you die" or "he'll be such a brat without siblings" or "don't you think it's time you had another? You can't keep him an only, it's really not healthy" and "too bad this generation is more about having money than having children."

 

These are some examples.

[Aelwydd]

I hear you, Cat! You're one of my favorite posters here. I don't want to have a misunderstanding. Sorry for my sensitivity!

[Mrs Mungo]

If you were to start a poll here and ask other parents of onlies about their real time, non-internet based encounters with rudeness in public places like schools, playgrounds, stores, church meetings, even from the pulpit, and what area they lived in when it happened, it would safely lay to rest any expectation that such attitudes are merely local to one part or another.

I can see where you are going with this, but I am simply unsure it is exclusive or even semi-exclusive to any group. I have had people comment on how I had my hands full with my 3 kids. I think we all have been on the receiving end of snarky comments about how many kids we have, no matter what. I know people with any number of kids (starting with zero) who have received public comments. Some people are just jerks. But, I don't think that is indicative of the choice (or not a choice, sometimes) of zero or one kid being far outside the norm. I think what people see as "the norm" is more reflective of their little piece of society more than anything else. Does that make sense?

[maize]

I didn't say these encounters happened often. I said they happened enough at times, and in different locales, to be indicative of some cultural ideas about what is and is not an ideal family. I didn't keep statistics on it. I even said most people don't say things like that. But a few? Yes. They sometimes choose to go there.

 

Where did I say that most people were looking to be insulting? Those particular catholics were just a part of a small but annoying group of rude people.

 

As to why people say rude things, why are you asking me their motives? I don't really know, and it doesn't change the fact that they would say things like, "your poor son will be so lonely, especially after you die" or "he'll be such a brat without siblings" or "don't you think it's time you had another? You can't keep him an only, it's really not healthy" and "too bad this generation is more about having money than having children."

 

These are some examples.

 

My guess? The majority ideal is two children per family (bonus points if you get a boy and a girl).

 

 

More than two? Nasty comments.

Less than two? Nasty comments.

 

Which is just sad all around.

[Scrub Jay]

I can see where you are going with this, but I am simply unsure it is exclusive or even semi-exclusive to any group. I have had people comment on how I had my hands full with my 3 kids. I think we all have been on the receiving end of snarky comments about how many kids we have, no matter what. I know people with any number of kids (starting with zero) who have received public comments. Some people are just jerks. But, I don't think that is indicative of the choice (or not a choice, sometimes) of zero or one kid being far outside the norm. I think what people see as "the norm" is more reflective of their little piece of society more than anything else. Does that make sense?

 

Exactly.  Like I said earlier, I got a handful of comments when I was walking my small dog, wearing my baby and with my 8 year old.  I think it must have been the wearing the baby part??  But, seriously, if that gets a hands full comment (ahem, my hands weren't even full since I was babywearing :p ) then anyone could. 

 

People say stupid things to strangers.  Whoa, you have an army there.  Oh, are you going to try for a boy/girl, etc?  Oh, you can't just stop at one child!  You aren't a real family unless you have kids.  Etc....

 

I forget the numbers now but it was almost 70% of people in their 40s have kids from the stats posted earlier.  Our culture supports and expects parenthood.  And then they like to say dumb things while standing in line with said parents at the grocery store. ;)

 

[WestHoustonMom]

I didn't say these encounters happened often. I said they happened enough at times, and in different locales, to be indicative of some cultural ideas about what is and is not an ideal family. I didn't keep statistics on it. I even said most people don't say things like that. But a few? Yes. They sometimes choose to go there.

 

Where did I say that most people were looking to be insulting? Those particular catholics were just a part of a small but annoying group of rude people.

 

As to why people say rude things, why are you asking me their motives? I don't really know, and it doesn't change the fact that they would say things like, "your poor son will be so lonely, especially after you die" or "he'll be such a brat without siblings" or "don't you think it's time you had another? You can't keep him an only, it's really not healthy" and "too bad this generation is more about having money than having children."

 

These are some examples.

Oh man, I hear you Aelwydd. I'm an only child, and I heard every one of those comments growing up constantly. Plus, a doozy from my maternal grandmother about what would my mom do if I died (and that comment started when I was 8 and didn't stop till my parents split up when I was 16). People always seemed to be terrified that I'd morph into a spoiled brat right before their eyes. Well, I turned out pretty normal and married another wonderful unselfish only child who also got all of those comments plus a few more because he was adopted.

 

We decided to have 2 kids strictly because there are no first cousins or even nearby 2nd or 3rd cousins, but I'd still be happy if we only had one. Now I'm getting hassled to have another because they're both boys (and DS2 hasn't even turned 1 yet). I keep telling everyone no way because my family tends to only have 1 gender and I'm not going to keep trying and end up with 6 or 7 boys just to make someone else happy that doesn't have to raise them. I love my boys to death, and I'm not sure I could deal with a girl anyway (I hate pink, princesses, and all manner of girly things).

 

Haters will keep hating just tell them you'd happily have another if they'll happily raise them without your support. I'm sure that'll shut them up.

[Dory]

Oh man, I hear you Aelwydd. I'm an only child, and I heard every one of those comments growing up constantly. Plus, a doozy from my maternal grandmother about what would my mom do if I died (and that comment started when I was 8 and didn't stop till my parents split up when I was 16). People always seemed to be terrified that I'd morph into a spoiled brat right before their eyes. Well, I turned out pretty normal and married another wonderful unselfish only child who also got all of those comments plus a few more because he was adopted.

 

We decided to have 2 kids strictly because there are no first cousins or even nearby 2nd or 3rd cousins, but I'd still be happy if we only had one. Now I'm getting hassled to have another because they're both boys (and DS2 hasn't even turned 1 yet). I keep telling everyone no way because my family tends to only have 1 gender and I'm not going to keep trying and end up with 6 or 7 boys just to make someone else happy that doesn't have to raise them. I love my boys to death, and I'm not sure I could deal with a girl anyway (I hate pink, princesses, and all manner of girly things).

 

Haters will keep hating just tell them you'd happily have another if they'll happily raise them without your support. I'm sure that'll shut them up.

 

That made me laugh. Come from the other side of the getting rude comments (as in, you have too many kids comments). My mom finally looked at a lady once and asked her if she was wanting a couple of them or something or were her comments meant to inspire her to just get rid of a few of us to make her family a more acceptable size.

[Aelwydd]

I can see where you are going with this, but I am simply unsure it is exclusive or even semi-exclusive to any group. I have had people comment on how I had my hands full with my 3 kids. I think we all have been on the receiving end of snarky comments about how many kids we have, no matter what. I know people with any number of kids (starting with zero) who have received public comments. Some people are just jerks. But, I don't think that is indicative of the choice (or not a choice, sometimes) of zero or one kid being far outside the norm. I think what people see as "the norm" is more reflective of their little piece of society more than anything else. Does that make sense?

It does. However, I think those of that stand out enough from the norm get targeted more often. Not too long ago, while addressing newlyweds, Pope Francis made disparaging remarks about choosing to have pets instead of children. Now, that attitude towards childless couples is a bit sharper and more critical than one towards families that at least have a kid. Similarly, we only families apparently represent selfishness, greed, materialism, and a contracepting/ aborting/ anti- children to some people. I don't know what families with 2 or 3 kids experience, but I was one of 3, and don't recall any attention to our family size growing up. Families that are large? Again, I hear stuff like people who have such are poor, ignorant, uneducated, crazy, selfish, and without self control.

 

The further you are outside of what is the normative paradigm, the more you get to be be made into "what is wrong with society."

[Aelwydd]

My guess? The majority ideal is two children per family (bonus points if you get a boy and a girl).

 

 

More than two? Nasty comments.

Less than two? Nasty comments.

 

Which is just sad all around.

Yes, exactly. I think families should look like a nice bell curve, with some very small ones on one end, and very large ones on the other. That's the way a population should look. It's ridiculous to hate on people for whatever side they fall on.

[Aelwydd]

Oh man, I hear you Aelwydd. I'm an only child, and I heard every one of those comments growing up constantly. Plus, a doozy from my maternal grandmother about what would my mom do if I died (and that comment started when I was 8 and didn't stop till my parents split up when I was 16). People always seemed to be terrified that I'd morph into a spoiled brat right before their eyes. Well, I turned out pretty normal and married another wonderful unselfish only child who also got all of those comments plus a few more because he was adopted.

 

We decided to have 2 kids strictly because there are no first cousins or even nearby 2nd or 3rd cousins, but I'd still be happy if we only had one. Now I'm getting hassled to have another because they're both boys (and DS2 hasn't even turned 1 yet). I keep telling everyone no way because my family tends to only have 1 gender and I'm not going to keep trying and end up with 6 or 7 boys just to make someone else happy that doesn't have to raise them. I love my boys to death, and I'm not sure I could deal with a girl anyway (I hate pink, princesses, and all manner of girly things).

 

Haters will keep hating just tell them you'd happily have another if they'll happily raise them without your support. I'm sure that'll shut them up.

That's awful that you had to hear those remarks. I have always tried to protect my son from such opinions or at least positively counter them. But, he has still overheard similar sentiments from people in church (when we will still attended), and some extended relatives.

 

We both enjoy our family. You enjoy yours. Others here are thrilled with their large families. I wish society would stop politicizing our choices of how and when to reproduce.

[Seasider]

And Cat, I am sorry if my tone is a little defensive. I don't mean to pick an argument. But, what I feel is while a lot of secular groups think that mocking large families is good sport, there are several religious traditions that are just as contemptuous of small families for not choosing to have more children. And both sides have their snotty emissaries.

I was given the long look down the nose from a number of people in a group we were part of for a while. For having "only" four.

 

ETA, I have also been given the much heard "Are they ALL yours?!!!" when in the company of three close-in-age children. So it runs both ways.

[Murmer]

The further you are outside of what is the normative paradigm, the more you get to be be made into "what is wrong with society."

 

 

This times a bazillion!!!!  As a white infertile adoptive mom of brown kids we have received so many comments the whole time from dink to why did you adopt to how could you and more.  Its a way to others and make people feel better about their being more "normal"

[Guest]

I was given the long look down the nose from a number of people in a group we were part of for a while. For having "only" four.

 

ETA, I have also been given the much heard "Are they ALL yours?!!!" when in the company of three close-in-age children. So it runs both ways.

Yeah four is the tipping point. You have a zillion kids to some and are too small to be a real Catholic to others.

 

My sister has five kids. One woman constantly mis-represents my sister as having " like, nine kids." My sister said she corrects her all the time, but the woman seems to enjoy thinking she has some gigantic family by having five.

[Crimson Wife]

 I don't know what families with 2 or 3 kids experience, but I was one of 3, and don't recall any attention to our family size growing up.

 

3 or 4 wasn't considered anything unusual when I was growing up. Single-kid families were the "weird" ones who got all sorts of negative comments. Now it's completely the other way around. "One and done" is seen as normal while 3+ gets the negative comments.

 

Frankly, I think it's rude to comment on family size, period. People have the number of kids they do for all sorts of reasons (good, bad, and in-between) and it's a matter for God to judge rather than any one of us.

[Mrs Mungo]

It does. However, I think those of that stand out enough from the norm get targeted more often.

The thing is, a large percentage of people are outside of the norm for one reason or another. I have much darker skin than my dh, plus I have dark curly hair. Two of my kids take after dh, one takes after me. I get asked crazy (and borderline offensive) questions about it all of the time. I honestly think most people deal with this junk in one way or another. There just aren't many people who fit in the neat little boxes other people want to shove them in.

 

The further you are outside of what is the normative paradigm, the more you get to be be made into "what is wrong with society."

But just look on the board for examples of what people *think of* as the norm in their own experience. It varies widely across the country-population density, racial makeup, religious backgrounds and experience with diversity of religion. It is why some people constantly say things like, "all patriotic people should watch this," then it is a republican ad (because they honestly believe all patriotic people are republicans) or "as a Christian, I believe..." and other Christians have to say, "I am a Christian and don't believe that."

 

Maybe it is just because I have lived in so many places, but I have seen nearly any group you can mentioned treated badly or treated well without much reason. But, I think probably most people have experienced what you describe on one level or another. If it isn't family size, then it is something else.

[gardenmom5]

The thing is, a large percentage of people are outside of the norm for one reason or another. I have much darker skin than my dh, plus I have dark curly hair. Two of my kids take after dh, one takes after me. I get asked crazy (and borderline offensive) questions about it all of the time. I honestly think most people deal with this junk in one way or another. There just aren't many people who fit in the near little boxes other people want to shove them in.

 

 

it's also hurtful and potentially damaging to the child.  dh's grandfather is from the middle east.  one sibling is very dark (even for some of those of the grandfather's ethnic background).  two are very mixed coloring (and look like anyone else in society at large) and dh is very fair.  people often thought the dark sibling didn't belong to their family and would say so.  this sibling had issues - and I'm sure the comments about not looking like the rest of the family just made matters worse.

[Aelwydd]

The thing is, a large percentage of people are outside of the norm for one reason or another. I have much darker skin than my dh, plus I have dark curly hair. Two of my kids take after dh, one takes after me. I get asked crazy (and borderline offensive) questions about it all of the time. I honestly think most people deal with this junk in one way or another. There just aren't many people who fit in the near little boxes other people want to shove them in.

 

 

But just look on the board for examples of what people *think of* as the norm in their own experience. It varies widely across the country-population density, racial makeup, religious backgrounds and experience with diversity of religion. It is why some people constantly say things like, "all patriotic people should watch this," then it is a republican ad (because they honestly believe all patriotic people are republicans) or "as a Christian, I believe..." and other Christians have to say, "I am a Christian and don't believe that."

 

Maybe it is just because I have lived in so many places, but I have seen nearly any group you can mentioned treated badly or treated well without much reason. But, I think probably most people have experienced what you describe on one level or another. If it isn't family size, then it is something else.

Ok, but this doesn't negate that the only child comments are hurtful and are coming from some harsh judgments, does it? Of course everyone suffers from being different from time to time. I have experienced racism, for example, as an Anglo American/ white person. I wouldn't put my experience on the same level as someone of African or Hispanic or Asian or Native American background, as I more often fall within the racial majority, or norm for this society.

 

Similarly, childless couples and singletons families are still an aberration from the norm. So are 4 and 5+ kid families. Not that folks who are closer to the statistical average are immune from the judgements. I'm saying that the outliers just seem to attract more negative attention from the people lacking good social skills.

 

I agree with Crimson that people should refrain from commenting on other people's family size. There are never any winners in the "Who is the most selfless, well-adjusted paragon of family virtue" contest.

[Mrs Mungo]

Ok, but this doesn't negate that the only child comments are hurtful and are coming from some harsh judgments, does it?

Absolutely not! I just have reached a point where it seems like rude people making assumptions and feeling the need to comment are everywhere.

 

I agree with Crimson that people should refrain from commenting on other people's family size. There are never any winners in the "Who is the most selfless, well-adjusted paragon of family virtue" contest.

I totally agree. People should also refrain on commenting whether they think you should be parking in that handicap spot, how your kid looks adopted, asking bizarro questions like, "what are you, anyway", whether you should really be using the crockpot, but they don't, lol.

[Crimson Wife]

 Similarly, childless couples and singletons families are still an aberration from the norm. 

 

No, they're not. Together they make up nearly 40% of women aged 40-44. Women having 4+ make up <10%. 0-1 is way more common in the U.S. than 4+. For every woman who has 4+ kids, there are nearly quadruple the number who have 0 or 1.

[Guest]

it's also hurtful and potentially damaging to the child. dh's grandfather is from the middle east. one sibling is very dark (even for some of those of the grandfather's ethnic background). two are very mixed coloring (and look like anyone else in society at large) and dh is very fair. people often thought the dark sibling didn't belong to their family and would say so. this sibling had issues - and I'm sure the comments about not looking like the rest of the family just made matters worse.

I had a sister like that, too. If you looked at the total gene pool, she totally fit (in fact, she looked more like my cousins's sister), but next to me, she was very dark and super-tiny. One friend of mine (as a teen) jokingly called her my "Mexican sister." :/

[LMD]

whoops. Baby posted... As you were...

[mommaduck]

Yep, we run the gamut here also. I'm one of ten and we all have similarities, but some of us look very different from others, particularly in skin, hair, and eye color. The same with my eight children. They range the spectrum. One used to swear we were lying to her and she must be adopted (she actually inherited recessive traits from a great grandmother and a great great grandfather). We are that ethnically mixed.

[Aelwydd]

No, they're not. Together they make up nearly 40% of women aged 40-44. Women having 4+ make up <10%. 0-1 is way more common in the U.S. than 4+. For every woman who has 4+ kids, there are nearly quadruple the number who have 0 or 1.

No, we're not the norm. The average is still more than one child per family. It may be moving in that direction, but we're not the average. But, why are you comparing singletons families to 4+ families? I said both fall outside the norm. I don't downplay the discrimination big families face. All I said was, hey, we singletons get targeted, too, but for different reasons.

 

Again, it's a fruitless contest.

[Guest]

Ah.

 

That's a very silly viewpoint! LOL

 

But a pregnancy announcement at 8 weeks doesn't really challenge it, because people can pregnant from very awkward sex, and there's enough of a window to allow for days or even a couple of weeks of horror-stricken fear of getting within 10 ft of each other unsupervised. They could go through all that, AND be awkward when they finally did, and still turn up pregnant within two months.

 

I don't get what's awkward about it.  I think it's awesome they waited.  

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I don't get what's awkward about it.  I think it's awesome they waited.  

 

Why did you quote me? I didn't say they were awkward! LOL

[Joanne]

 

The further you are outside of what is the normative paradigm, the more you get to be be made into "what is wrong with society."

True story. I am single handedly responsible for the demise of society because I did not spank my kids. It's true; there is a Facebook meme that says so. Facebook and John Rosemond.

[Guest]

Toe the line.

 

 

I'm looking forward to the tell all book.

 

Why?

[Guest]

Yep, I've been on both sides of that fence, but in my life I've definitely been more out of mainstream when I'm at home with kids, especially as they got older. Of course, homeschooling just puts me wayyy out of mainstream.

 

I feel very sad that in this day and age there are still girls being raised to believe that they are only as valuable as the fruit of their wombs. I (obviously) have a huge problem with the Duggars and their lifestyle. My heart breaks for those kids.

 

I've never heard the Duggars teach anything like this.  This is your assumption.  

 

Growing up, my parents were not like the Duggars, but I wish they would have been that way.  Would have spared me a LOT of heartache and grief.  

[Guest]

Ummmm.....My brothers and sisters were all raised in ATI. My parents/family were enrolled for over 20 years (my parents are out of the program now) and we have absolutely no trouble understanding choices OR executing them. We are some of the most outspoken, opinionated people I know. All of my brothers and sisters and I make our own choices for our families. Sometimes they're the same, sometimes they're not. Often they're different from how our parents raised us but not always.

 

I also got married at 19. We kissed after we were engaged but we did the whole courtship, virgins on our wedding night thing. We didn't use birth control. We made that choice ourselves. We aren't weird, or socially awkward, or sexually stunted or anything else. (It took me a year to get pregnant btw.)

 

I don't agree with much of what Gothard/ATI teaches anymore but it still irritates me when people with no personal experience with it start saying things like this. I was raised in it. I can and do make my own choices as an adult. I'm sure Jill Duggar and her husband make their own decisions also. Please don't be insulting.

 

I've been hoping someone who has personal experience would get on here and say something!  :)  It's so insulting to sum up a whole group of people based on something they know nothing about.  People are just assuming things, as they don't even KNOW the Duggars!