DS15 and inappropriate electronics usage - wwyd

[oneangelwaiting]

These seem like separate issues, the girlfriend and the technology.

 

He was planning to "secretly meet up with her" -- the initial problem that warranted taking away privileges. Since the GF's parents facilitate their meetings, how was this "secret" meeting going to happen? And why did it need to be secret if their relationship was something everyone knows about?

 

Re: his phone, if the reason you want him to have a phone is so you can communicate with HIM, then he doesn't need an Iphone. You can sell that and get a dumb phone that will allow you to talk/text. I don't see any special reason to limit their talking/texting during the summer unless he isn't getting his other responsibilities done. Maybe their should be a house rule about phones kept downstairs, you certainly don't want him up all night talking.

 

Re: The Ipod, agree with others you can put a password on your internet service.

 

Not sure why you should facilitate a relationship that has so many negatives. How did they even meet, or was she close and then moved away?

Her parents thought we knew that they were bringing her up to see him. It was especially dumb because he didn't even ask if he could see her, he just assumed we'd say no and tried to go behind our backs. When I talked to her mom I did ask her to text me when she is bringing her daughter up, just to make sure we're all on the same page. And she said she would, so hopefully secret meetings won't be happening anytime soon.

 

They met at school, in 8th grade. We moved in August to a new city and they broke up but that didn't last very long unfortunately!

[Lieutenant Stranger]

I tend to agree with this. From my own highly unscientific experience and observations, I can tell you that most of the kids I knew when I was young got into various kinds of trouble, dated (and more) far too early, etc., mostly because we were bored and restless. In that day and age, we didn't have any meaningful work to do at home in suburbia, and it wasn't the norm for parents to encourage or support serious extracurricular activities. So, we went to school (most of the time), came home, rushed through our homework and then passed the hours by watching TV, talking to each other on the phone and, when that got boring, putting the rest of our energies into figuring out how to get into trouble,

 

On the other hand, my son and his friends are busy. One of his buddies plays with his school's marching band and the jazz ensemble, sings with the school chorus and a community choir, takes instrument and voice lessons and does some community theatre. My own son dances pretty seriously. This past year, he was at the dance studio an average of about 20 hours a week, taking regular classes, rehearsing for competitions and teaching/assistant teaching a few classes. He also sings with a pretty rigorous choir. (They just returned from a trip to NYC during which they did several concerts and participated in a youth choir festival that included a performance at Carnegie Hall.) And he's logged just short of 300 hours of community service in the past three years. Other friends volunteer, make music videos and web series, are involved with the school newspaper, yearbook, drama club, etc.

 

From what I can tell, the ones who are kept more busy with meaningful, organized activities tend to be happier and get into less trouble. The relationship is almost linear: More time in healthy activities equals better attitude and academic performance and less serious trouble. 

 

This times 100. I was in an organized sport in high school and I didn't have the time to get in trouble! (And, yes, I hung out with friends often...probably too much.) When coach expects you at practice at 6am...well, you should probably go to sleep.

 

I can think of several of my friends who were pregnant by the age of 14 or 15. These girls both had SERIOUS BOYFRIENDS, too much privacy and too much down time on their hands. Neither were involved in activities outside of their boyfriends, which, apparently, were almost full-time jobs for them. 

[oneangelwaiting]

Question for those of you suggesting getting him involved in stuff - Last school year he played football in the fall and did wrestling in the winter. Other years he has also done track in the spring but he didn't want to this past year.  When football was over he said he wasn't going to do it anymore because it took too much time.  School starts at 8 a.m., practice usually ran until 5:30-6 and if there were games they usually went even later.  There weren't early morning practices though, and no weekend practices either.

 

Part of the problem is that while he has a lot of natural athletic talent, he really hates to be told that there are things he needs to work on or things he needs to do better. I do realize this is a character issue that needs to be resolved but I'm not sure how to do that. At least a couple times during football he got mad and left practice early when he felt that his coaches were being too hard on him. He has a tendency to be lazy.  I can not relate because when I did sports in high school, I always tried my buns off and even though I was never the best, the fastest, or the strongest, no one can say they tried harder than I did. For it me was the personal gratification of knowing that I did my best that mattered.  

 

So with some background info - would you make him do sports even if he doesn't want to?  He also enjoys running so cross country might be an option for the fall, but again the whole laziness, I-don't-want-to factor.  Even though he really likes wrestling, by the end of it he was just ready to be done and was tired of going to practices, etc. Which again, I think part of it is he is relying on his natural talent and strength and not wanting to learn the skills that are involved.  

 

He has applied for exactly one job this summer, and was disappointed when they didn't call him back but I assured him that is totally normal, you have to apply at a ton of places when you are young.  I'm sure there aren't too many places that hire 15 year olds anyway. He was going to go around the neighborhood and offer to mow lawns and things like that, but so far he hasn't. School has been out for a month now. Yesterday we went on a family picnic and I made him ride his bike there and home with my husband while I drove the car with the baby, because he needs to get off his buns and do something!

 

Thoughts?

[fairfarmhand]

Perhaps you can tell him, A job or sports. If a job doesn't work out, then he must choose a sport. And when he's not in a sport he must spend x amount of time exercising. I'd also be tempted to give him all the hard outdoor type jobs, cutting grass, rotating your tires, weeding, trimming shrubs, etc.

[Jenny in Florida]

 

So with some background info - would you make him do sports even if he doesn't want to?  

 

No, I would not make a teen participate in any specific activity. I don't think the point is to make a kid be busy, but to encourage him to get involved in something he cares about, something he can invest in that makes it worth getting out of bed in the morning. Otherwise, all of that activity is just busy work.

 

To be honest, I don't know what I would do with a kid who didn't seem to care or to have any enthusiasm for doing things. My problem with my two has always been trying to rein in the enthusiasm enough to make time for them to sleep and eat and do their basic schoolwork. But I think I would start by sitting down with him and having a heart-to-heart talk. I'd ask him what he does care about, what does interest him. I'd tell him that we, his parents, are behind him and will support him while he explores possibilities. I would ask him what he wants to do with his life and then try to get him to brainstorm things he could do now to put him on that path. 

 

Edited to add: I meant to say before that summer is a great time to explore lots of things is a non-threatening, time-limited way. You could do some research about summer camps and such in your area and have him choose a few things to do with the understanding that he could continue with one of them in the fall.

 

Because I do think that's part of it, too. My kids have chosen activities that aren't just ways to pass the time, but real, meaningful pursuits that they love and that connect them with things they plan to do as adults. 

 

What does your son love? What subjects excite him? What does he want to study in college? What kind of career does he plan? Are there opportunities for him to volunteer in that field to get some experience and training that might help him land a job next summer?

[Catwoman]

He sounds like a normal 15yo to me.

 

I don't think it's at all unusual for a boy that age to be disinterested in sports, not be in a hurry to get a job, or to have no specific life goals or meaningful interests. I also don't think those things correlate with how he will feel about any of those things in a few more years, except perhaps the sports, because many people simply don't love sports.

 

I think people are suggesting that you find ways to keep your ds busy as a way of distracting him from the girl, not because it's such a big deal in the overall scheme of life. I don't think it matters what he's doing as long as it interests him, so I wouldn't pressure him to participate in sports or any other specific activity unless he wants to try it.

 

Is there anything he likes to do?

[catz]

Perhaps you can tell him, A job or sports. If a job doesn't work out, then he must choose a sport. And when he's not in a sport he must spend x amount of time exercising. I'd also be tempted to give him all the hard outdoor type jobs, cutting grass, rotating your tires, weeding, trimming shrubs, etc.

 

This is what I would do too.  I'd give him a wide variety of choice, but he would need to choose SOMETHING.  I would not force a specific sport or activity, but if he chose something I'd encourage him to have patience with it and stick with it at least some threshold amount of time (like 3 months).  Hopefully something he is interested in or passionate about.  Although, if he is this gaga over a girl, he may just need to fake it until he makes it.  .  Sitting around texting all day would not be an option. 

[Jenny in Florida]

I think people are suggesting that you find ways to keep your ds busy as a way of distracting him from the girl, not because it's such a big deal in the overall scheme of life. I don't think it matters what he's doing as long as it interests him, so I wouldn't pressure him to participate in sports or any other specific activity unless he wants to try it.

 

I can't speak for everyone else, but, no, I'm suggesting keeping him busy because I think it's healthy and appropriate for teens to be busily invested in something meaningful, not to distract him from a girl. Every study I've seen suggests that kids who participate in extracurricular activities they love do better in school and weather adolescence much better.

 

But I don't think you can fake or force it. So, I agree that is probably isn't helpful to pressure participation in any specific, parent-chosen activity. I do think it's acceptable to establish the expectation that a teen will do something.

 

I asked my son for his input, and he suggested that the OP give her son the chance to choose several different activities to try this summer and hope something sticks.

[catz]

I can't speak for everyone else, but, no, I'm suggesting keeping him busy because I think it's healthy and appropriate for teens to be busily invested in something meaningful, not to distract him from a girl. Every study I've seen suggests that kids who participate in extracurricular activities they love do better in school and weather adolescence much better.

 

But I don't think you can fake or force it. So, I agree that is probably isn't helpful to pressure participation in any specific, parent-chosen activity. I do think it's acceptable to establish the expectation that a teen will do something.

 

I asked my son for his input, and he suggested that the OP give her son the chance to choose several different activities to try this summer and hope something sticks.

 

I do agree with this.  I don't think emotionally healthy relationships at any age should be so distracting that you can't or won't do anything else.  I personally would not attempt to force a break up.  But I wouldn't be tripping over myself to get these 2 kids together either.    If he's so distraught and distracted that he can't or won't do other things with regularity, I would definitely be looking into some sort of counseling.

[gardenmom5]

, he really hates to be told that there are things he needs to work on or things he needs to do better.

- would you make him do sports even if he doesn't want to?  

 

 

He has applied for exactly one job this summer, and was disappointed when they didn't call him back

 

sports is just one outlet.  there are also other clubs at school that aren't sports.  volutneering in a park or such, where he has a regular schedule.  working.

honestly - it's less about what and more about doing something regularly.  sports are good as they are also physical - but volunteering at a park or something can also be physical.

 

he's at the age where he doens't want to be told anything - but unless he plans on being his own boss (in which case it would still be government agencies telling him what he can and can't do re: regulations), he'd better adjust his attitude because that's part of life everyone has to deal with it.  the sooner you are able to help him with that, the better off he'll be.

[gardenmom5]

 

I asked my son for his input, and he suggested that the OP give her son the chance to choose several different activities to try this summer and hope something sticks.

 

trying different things is good.  he may try something he never had supposed and loves it.  while it's convienent if it's at school - there are many acitivities outside of school. 

 

dd x-cntry coach only wanted to do soccer, but he never made the team.  then he noticed those that did, did x-cntry in the fall.  so, he went out for x-cntry ONLY to increase his chances of making the soccer team.  well - long story short, he had a college scholarship as a runner and went to the olympics as a runner. running was somthing he "never had supposed".  (he never did do soccer.)

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

He has applied for exactly one job this summer, and was disappointed when they didn't call him back but I assured him that is totally normal, you have to apply at a ton of places when you are young.  I'm sure there aren't too many places that hire 15 year olds anyway. He was going to go around the neighborhood and offer to mow lawns and things like that, but so far he hasn't. School has been out for a month now. Yesterday we went on a family picnic and I made him ride his bike there and home with my husband while I drove the car with the baby, because he needs to get off his buns and do something!

 

Thoughts?

BTDT with my now 17 year old.  We did make exercise mandatory.  For awhile he was excited about tae kwando and did that but now I take him to the Y every day and exercise with him.  And when he's able, my husband goes with him to exercise.  My husband also has gotten him involved in some activities - volunteer and hobbies.  Ds is excited about doing these because he's doing them with his dad.  This isn't easy for dh to do - he has two jobs and is very busy but he's had to make it a priority because we were losing our son.  I'm plenty active with ds also but what ds really needed was his dad to take point on this.  

[jhschool]

...

 

Old boyfriend of mine told me about the door removal that happened to his younger sister. She was always slamming the door. Always always always. Nothing they did stopped it. One day their dad removed the door. Dad said it would be gone for a week. Then it would go back on, but the next time her door was slammed the door would be gone permanently. A couple of days after the door was back, she slammed the door. Well, she started to, then she stuck her arm in the door and broke it. (Just goes to show how hard she was slamming it) She never slammed the door again.

OK this is horrible!!!!

[kroe1]

So this kiddo has no current activities, a girlfriend who shows him her thongs, and girlfriend parents who are stupid enough to drive thong girlfriend long distances to drop her off in his unsupervised care? This is beyond scary for me.

 

First, buy him protection and teach him how to use it. You are up against a brick wall with no way out. At least make sure you are not supporting a baby next year.

 

Second, do not depend on the other parents to help you supervise your own kid. They have already demonstrated cluelessness with their own daughter. This will not change no matter how much you expect them to text you.

 

Third, kudos to everyone suggesting to keep this kiddo busy. Around here, there are two types of kiddos, the busy ones and the in trouble ones.

 

Fourth, do not let this kiddo out of your sight, if you expect no physical contact between your DS and the girl, If you are one that knows 70% of kiddos have done the deed by about age 16 or so, then give up this battle and pick another one.

 

Fifth, what are the goals of your son? Kiddos with strong, specific life plans are less likely to make life altering stupid decisions as teens. If he doesn't have specific plans, then start helping him find his passion (other than thongs).

 

Sixth, remember that not all bad decision making teens turn out poorly as adults. Sometimes stupidity's consequences spur ambition.

[Katy]

He's completely blown the idea of privacy.  I'd consequence him one day with no privacy for every hour he spent on that friend's phone, even if it meant two months. I mean, I'd tether that kid to my side as if he was a toddler.  No privacy at all except for the bathroom.  I read parts of this thread aloud to DH and he even suggested taking everything out of kid's room for whatever period of time that meant - not even a bag or dresser.  Kid would have a week's worth of clothes in closet and a basket for socks and underwear.

 

I'd also talk to the mom of the kid who loaned the phone.  What if their son had only a couple hours of access per day and there's a thousand dollar bill coming in a week or two?  What if he's getting into similar trouble and the mom doesn't know it?  Kid would be grounded from spending time with that friend for a minimum of another week after he was off privacy restriction.

 

I agree that requiring more activities & exercise from him is a good idea.  I would recommend sports rather than a job, but maybe both.

[kathkath]

I do get it. But even if we change our wifi password, which we have, that's not to say he can't get on a neighbor's wifi, even if it is password protected he could probably get the password from their kids who he goes to school with. There is just no way he could have it, with all of the things that it can do (who knew you could use an iPod for talking on the phone, facetiming, texting, sending pictures, browsing the Web, etc.), unless we want to sit there over his shoulder the entire time. Plus in his conversations he has mentioned secret apps where he can keep the pictures she sends him private, so who knows what all is on there that we can't even access.

 

I guess we could just keep it and give it back when he moves out! :D

Not the parent of a teen but ipods have restriction settings under the "general" tab.  you can disable safari, apps, you name it.  If you try to guess the restrictions pword too many times it will disable the device for an ungodly amount of time.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I wanted to send some encouragement. The immediacy of electronic communications means that it doesn't take a lot of thought to head down a wrong path. Not like in the day where you would have needed to take a picture, take it to be developed, then put it in an envelope.

 

Good kids and good parents can find themselves dealing with poor choices and actions.

 

You can only parent your kid, not the girlfriend. Ask for notification, but don't assume you are getting it. (I do like the idea of keeping the other family informed, but it may or may not help.)

 

FWIW, the books Who's in Your Social Network and Nobody Told Me by Pam Stenzel were helpful around our house when we were setting up internet and phone usage.  They are written from a Christian perspective, but are quite frank about some internet practices and pitfalls.

 

I think it's worth keeping in mind that these are actions and choices. Try to keep it clear that while you are giving consequences for actions, you still love your kid. This can be a real challenge and lots of work. But I think it's important. I think it's easy to overlook how little it takes to crush the spirit of a teen boy. They can seem so tough on the exterior.  Sometimes they are just good at hiding emotions.

 

It might be worth having consequences be limited duration and repeatable, like losing the iPod for a month. Sometimes when they feel like they have to be perfect forever, they decide that it's not worth continuing to try. 

 

Try to find ways to keep him busy and active (not always the same thing).  Hard work also builds a sense of accomplishment, which can help with the emotional tank filling.

 

I think family counseling is a great idea.  Even if you are starting up with someone new.

 

Hugs to all of you.  Parenting really isn't for wimps.

 

 

[LucyStoner]

He's completely blown the idea of privacy. I'd consequence him one day with no privacy for every hour he spent on that friend's phone, even if it meant two months. I mean, I'd tether that kid to my side as if he was a toddler. No privacy at all except for the bathroom. I read parts of this thread aloud to DH and he even suggested taking everything out of kid's room for whatever period of time that meant - not even a bag or dresser. Kid would have a week's worth of clothes in closet and a basket for socks and underwear.

 

I'd also talk to the mom of the kid who loaned the phone. What if their son had only a couple hours of access per day and there's a thousand dollar bill coming in a week or two? What if he's getting into similar trouble and the mom doesn't know it? Kid would be grounded from spending time with that friend for a minimum of another week after he was off privacy restriction.

 

I agree that requiring more activities & exercise from him is a good idea. I would recommend sports rather than a job, but maybe both.

I know so many kids whose parents did that and the children got worse, not better. Make a teen desperate for a shred of privacy and you may well find yourself with a teen who decides they prefer to live in the street than go home at all. IME homeless teens quite often have a home they could be at/in but for the difficulties they have with their parents.

 

Don't drive him away and right into her arms. I am all for keeping busy but don't make him feel so stifled he has to get out. I don't think that is what the OP is doing at all or wants to do but advice along these lines has the potential to both work AND also to REALLY not work. So many people I know never talk to their parents because of stuff like this. A 15 year old boy? I don't see this working very well.

[Lavandula]

He's completely blown the idea of privacy.  I'd consequence him one day with no privacy for every hour he spent on that friend's phone, even if it meant two months. I mean, I'd tether that kid to my side as if he was a toddler.  No privacy at all except for the bathroom.  I read parts of this thread aloud to DH and he even suggested taking everything out of kid's room for whatever period of time that meant - not even a bag or dresser.  Kid would have a week's worth of clothes in closet and a basket for socks and underwear.

I don't think making a teenager resent his parents is very good advice.

[katilac]

The reason that they are so "in love" is because they don't see each other often and mainly communicate through technology.  It's easy to have a romance via texting as it requires little effort, and due to the ability to censor/filter oneself, the relationship can remain "perfect" for a long period of time. If you get them together more often, it is likely that the relationship will terminate on its own.  The key, though, is to have them together at your place.  While there give them tasks that require work, such as making and planting a garden, weeding the flower bed, cleaning out the garage, etc.  The chores will keep them busy.  They will also not be exactly fun.  She will tire of them and eventually not want to come over to visit.  He will become less appealing, to her as seeing him requires work.  Also, when they work on something together such as that they can really get to know each other.  For instance it is easy to see flaws if one relies on the other to finish a task (one not working as hard or as well as the other or one gets grouchy/snappy from the work).

 

It isn't foolproof; however, it is worth a try.  He will see it, at first, as you really trying because you keep inviting her over to visit.  If all works out, he won't blame you when the relationship terminates because you did "try".  

 

I would think it was quite strange if someone invited my daughter over and then handed her a list of chores! And I don't think any kid is going to be fooled into thinking mom "tried" if she has the girlfriend weeding the garden when she visits, lol. I do think it would be good to try and have her over, for a regular visit. 

 

 

 

So with some background info - would you make him do sports even if he doesn't want to?   

 

I would make him do something, both for physical exercise and to keep him occupied. It doesn't have to be team sports. He can run or jog on his own, or perhaps with dad? We have a family membership to the gym, and that works out pretty well, everyone can choose what they want to do. 

[Mandylubug]

Family counseling. It really helped me at his age. The psychologist was a neutral person and I felt safe to say what I felt. Truly made a huge difference. I actually only met with my parents a couple of times and then it was just weekly sessions with me alone. When sessions were no longer needed, I cried. It was sad to say farewell. It changed our family dynamic. We communicated better and tempers didn't flare.

 

While during counseling, I was given what felt like freedom around a select group of people. My parents also had me ask for activities I wanted. They let go and let me do more approved activities and less staying at home. Activities were chaperoned with trusted adults. If there wasn't anything to do and I was bored, I was invited to plan an activity and invite my friends.

 

Fyi, what prompted my families "breakdown and counseling required period" was me sneaking out with older teenagers at 14, drinking and sexual exploration. I was desperate for respect and freedom and went about getting that attention from the wrong people. I was brought up in a strongly conservative family, internet limited, phones limited.

 

Not until I felt unconditional love, respect and allowance for "limited or approved" freedom, was I happy.

[Lieutenant Stranger]

 

So with some background info - would you make him do sports even if he doesn't want to?  He also enjoys running so cross country might be an option for the fall, but again the whole laziness, I-don't-want-to factor.  Even though he really likes wrestling, by the end of it he was just ready to be done and was tired of going to practices, etc. Which again, I think part of it is he is relying on his natural talent and strength and not wanting to learn the skills that are involved.  

 

He has applied for exactly one job this summer, and was disappointed when they didn't call him back but I assured him that is totally normal, you have to apply at a ton of places when you are young.  I'm sure there aren't too many places that hire 15 year olds anyway. He was going to go around the neighborhood and offer to mow lawns and things like that, but so far he hasn't. School has been out for a month now. Yesterday we went on a family picnic and I made him ride his bike there and home with my husband while I drove the car with the baby, because he needs to get off his buns and do something!

 

Thoughts?

 

Here's the choices I'd give, personally: You can do a sport. You will be expected to act like a BIG BOY, and not go running off with your tail between your legs if your feelings get hurt, or you can have a job, or you can volunteer. 

 

One of the three would be expected. The ball is in his court to decide which one. 

[Catwoman]

Here's the choices I'd give, personally: You can do a sport. You will be expected to act like a BIG BOY, and not go running off with your tail between your legs if your feelings get hurt, or you can have a job, or you can volunteer.

 

One of the three would be expected. The ball is in his court to decide which one.

Wow. "Not go running off with your tail between your legs if your feelings get hurt?"

 

Seriously?

 

Unsupportive much? :glare: