Would you report this? (suspicion of possible abuse)

[Catwoman]

No, but my point is a child being spanked with a belt would likely only have marks where we would not see them. If the standard becomes "we have to see marks" then a LOT of abuse will never be reported.

Oh, OK. Thanks for clarifying. Sorry if I misunderstood you. I was assuming I'd missed a post somewhere!

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I think that before reporting abuse, some evidence of the abuse should be available. Every person who is overheard saying that they have spanked their child is not nearly enough. Use of a belt or a paddle is not enough (unless that is specified in that state). If the parent had been saying something about how poor ds wasn't able to sit down because of the welts she had made, yes, report it. But, just the fact that she had used a belt? No. If dc wear wearing shorts and had belt lines showing on his legs, definitely. If dc were complaining about not being able to sit because of his spanking, yep. A difference of opinion on how/when discipline should be used; no. 

 

So as long as someone beats the **** out of their kid from the chest to the upper thighs they are good to go.

[Seasider]

I disagree with you. I think her methods are abusive. Maybe that's how abuser should be defined but somehow I don't.

I believe you said her husband is a clergyman - though perhaps I misunderstood. Are these methods she's using being taught by her church? Her desire to prevent the proverbial PK's? I'm just wondering what kind of pressure she may be under to use such techniques. Not excusing it in any way, just trying to get a bigger picture.

ETA - looked again and saw that you never mentioned her dh, but that she is a coop worship leader and member of the host church. Do you see any signs around the church (class announcements, etc) that would indicate the church is teaching super strict parenting methods?

[SKL]

No, but my point is a child being spanked with a belt would likely only have marks where we would not see them.  If the standard becomes "we have to see marks" then a LOT of abuse will never be reported.

 

I think it would be enough if a child reported to an adult that s/he had marks (or continuing pain) from a beating.

 

But no, I don't think people should err on the side of "there *might* be marks."
 

[Desert Strawberry]

 
Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I never recall receiving any specific child abuse detection training. I know much more about elderly neglect and abuse- that's terribly common these days.

I have worked mainly with children. I went through a 3 part course-first aid, CPR, and child abuse...something, I don't remember the name- at YMCA when I was an instructor in high school. I have worked at many other places and never received that particular training again. It was very useful. 

[Lolly]

So as long as someone beats the **** out of their kid from the chest to the upper thighs they are good to go.

 

 

Nope, they aren't allowed to talk about it either. Or have someone see the marks while they are changing, using the restroom (most boys do use urinals which allow some exposure), or their bathing suit falls down a bit low. I just don't believe abuse that is witnessed as a simple "I spanked my kid" is good enough. Can you imagine the number of cases there would be? It would completely overload the system and the true abuse cases would be less likely to be outed. As it is, the system is pretty overworked. Adding in all those additional cases would be insanity. Yes, there is too much abuse that goes on that is never found. Reporting every little twinge that people think they might see is just not realistic. 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Nope, they aren't allowed to talk about it either. Or have someone see the marks while they are changing, using the restroom (most boys do use urinals which allow some exposure), or their bathing suit falls down a bit low. I just don't believe abuse that is witnessed as a simple "I spanked my kid" is good enough. Can you imagine the number of cases there would be? It would completely overload the system and the true abuse cases would be less likely to be outed. As it is, the system is pretty overworked. Adding in all those additional cases would be insanity. Yes, there is too much abuse that goes on that is never found. Reporting every little twinge that people think they might see is just not realistic. 

 

Straw man.  No one said report for "spanking." No one.

If someone is hitting their child with a belt they have failed both as a parent and a human being, and asking an outside party to make sure the child is safe rather than waiting for a bathing suit to slip at the right time seems quite reasonable.

[73349]

I was spanked with a belt, and I didn't become an angry person. If she is readily admitting it, then she is not a real abuser. If she were leaving bruises and being extremely cruel, she wouldn't talk about it.

 

Having been belted, paddled, smacked, and threatened with other violence by someone who would proudly say she's a very effective parent, I must disagree strongly. Abusers can feel great about having a tool that is (at first) a virtual guarantee of compliance and will refuse to believe that harm has been done. Not every kid gets through without becoming angry or fearful or detached or compulsive or otherwise harmed--just as some people survive motorcycle crashes without helmets, but that doesn't mean we should expect everyone to.
 

OP, are there parenting classes near you that might be useful for her? My area has something (not through CPS)... I'd be printing out flyers to hand out at the next co-op day and make sure she got one.

[Lolly]

Straw man.  No one said report for "spanking." No one.

If someone is hitting their child with a belt they have failed both as a parent and a human being, and asking an outside party to make sure the child is safe rather than waiting for a bathing suit to slip at the right time seems quite reasonable.

 

double post

[Lolly]

Straw man.  No one said report for "spanking." No one.

If someone is hitting their child with a belt they have failed both as a parent and a human being, and asking an outside party to make sure the child is safe rather than waiting for a bathing suit to slip at the right time seems quite reasonable.

 

Use of a belt is still a spanking. It is a spanking with a belt. Go back to my post and change spanking to a spanking with a belt. Once again, your personal feelings on a belt use being abusive in and of itself are not used in the legal definition of what is abusive. I disagree with people being allowed to smoke outside of their homes. It is an invasion of my right to breath clean air. It, unfortunately imho, does not make it illegal. In fact, I think that anyone who smokes is abusing their child. Still doesn't make it illegal.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Use of a belt is still a spanking. It is a spanking with a belt. Go back to my post and change spanking to a spanking with a belt. Once again, your personal feelings on a belt use being abusive in and of itself are not used in the legal definition of what is abusive. I disagree with people being allowed to smoke outside of their homes. It is an invasion of my right to breath clean air. It, unfortunately imho, does not make it illegal.

 

First of all, in some states using a belt is by definition abusive.  In all states leaving marks is a sign of abuse, and using a belt significantly increases the likelihood of bruising. So yes, knowing that someone uses a belt would be an indication that abuse is possibly occurring, and I have no problem saying it should be investigated.  I get that you are more concerned with protecting the rights of abusive parents than the victims, so I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

[HRAAB]

Although I don't spank and don't like or approve of that method of punishment for my children, I would never report anyone for spanking - a swat to a covered bottom. Using a belt takes it to another level imo, and yes, I would report it. There is a difference between using your hand and a belt. I've seen the physical evidence.

[Lolly]

First of all, in some states using a belt is by definition abusive.  In all states leaving marks is a sign of abuse, and using a belt significantly increases the likelihood of bruising. So yes, knowing that someone uses a belt would be an indication that abuse is possibly occurring, and I have no problem saying it should be investigated.  I get that you are more concerned with protecting the rights of abusive parents than the victims, so I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

And, I specifically stated that in those states it should be reported. Yep, we are going to disagree though your reasoning is unsound as to the reason we are disagreeing. 

[...................]

I keep thinking about this (I don't know why it's sticking in my mind, but it is,) and the more I think about it, the more certain I am that I wouldn't report it.

Think about it this way and see if you understand why I wouldn't do it.

OK, this mom is having a casual chat with a trusted friend and she mentions the spanking/belt thing as a small part of a larger conversation with this friend whom she trusts. She isn't making a big deal about it, nor is she bragging about beating her kids or going into a tirade about how parents today aren't strict enough. She didn't indicate that she uses the belt more than "occasionally," which for all we know could mean twice in her life -- we just don't know.

After the conversation, the mom's friend and momoflaw talk about what the woman had said and both she and the friend say they're uncomfortable with the other mom's choices, but the friend isn't sure the woman should be reported. Momoflaw is worried and isn't sure what to do.

So... all I keep thinking is that it's a bit disconcerting to think you can have a casual conversation with a trusted friend, bring something up in passing, and end up getting reported to CPS for it because someone else was eavesdropping on the conversation.

The mom has never hit or otherwise physically abused her kids in front of momoflaw or the friend, and the worst thing they have seen her do is give a "stern look" or threaten a spanking.

I'm sorry, but even as someone who is totally anti-belt, I don't think you report someone for that. This woman could be a wonderful mother who needs some help in figuring out more appropriate methods of dealing with her kids when they misbehave, not a vicious abuser.

I know that the people who want to report every single person who spanks their kids will never agree with me, but I really do think that it's pretty extreme to report this woman with no cause other than a few comments made during a single conversation with a friend. Frankly, it's kind of scary to think that people report other parents on such a sliver of evidence. Being reported to CPS is a very big deal, and I don't think it should be done cavalierly, especially because no one has even bothered to talk to the woman again and get a better idea of what's really going on.

For all we know, she was just having a terrible day with the kids and was venting to her friend, whom she trusted would understand that she was just venting, and not rush off to report her to CPS.

Again, I'll defer to momoflaw to know the right thing to do, because she was there and I wasn't, but I do think it's only fair for either momoflaw or her friend to try to talk to the mom about it again before anyone considers involving the authorities.

Agreee!!!! She needs a friend and more creativity in schooling and motivating her kids. What kind of police state do we want to become?

[NoseInABook]

It would be report worthy here. You can spank your children but you cannot use a belt nor can it leave any mark which a belt would do. 

 

[SKL]

Hmm, I've personally seen many kids spanked with a belt and none of them ever had marks from the belt afterward.

 

To say using a belt on occasion means a parent "failed both as a parent and a human" is so ridiculous.  You just called my dad a failure.  That is one of the most ignorant comments I have ever seen on here.  Ever.

[JumpyTheFrog]

This is a sincere question...how does one spank with a belt? The only thing I can picture is the parent winding up and using it like a whip.

[SKL]

nm 

 

Edited March 28, 2014 by Moderator
We'd just as soon not host this info, thanks.

[Excelsior! Academy]

In my state spanking with a belt is not illegal, and that alone would not warrant a report. But it would definitely concern me, and if there were other concerns as well I might call it in. The child's behavioral issues might be enough in addition to the spanking with a belt but it would depend on the severity and how the mom reacted to it,

 

 

From the sound of things, this was done a couple of times as a last resort on school-aged kids.  It would not be considered abuse here.

 

I don't like it but I wouldn't report it without a lot more.

 

Arg!  I can't cut and paste from outside links. 

 

It is legal to spank/switch/paddle children up until the age of 18 in my state.  The statute's language includes parents/teachers/other persons.  According to this, I wouldn't report this instance in my state. 

 

I don't live in Alaska, but their law says reasonable non-deadly force to promote welfare of a child or incompetent person.  *That* is a scary law.  I *think* I get the intent, but a lot of abuse can be non-deadly.

 

I am always surprised at the differences in laws by state.
 

[*Alyssa*]

Having been "that" child, I beg you to please report them.  I love my parents dearly, but they were very young and having been raised (my dad) in a much harsher environment, really didn't know what they were doing was wrong.  My father has apologized many times and would never consider raising a hand to his grandchildren.  He can't even explain why he was so harsh with me, other his own raising and that's what the church told him to do.  My mom (who did not whip us but allowed it to happen) has never talked about it, which is what she does when she feels really, really guilty about something.  So yes, report them, help them break the cycle.

 

I'm astounded by the poll results.

 

I grew up in the foster jail system and aged out of the system.  I don't know if you grew up in it, FoxBridgeAcademy, but if you did not, I would not be so quick to jump to this conclusion.

 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Hmm, I've personally seen many kids spanked with a belt and none of them ever had marks from the belt afterward.

 

To say using a belt on occasion means a parent "failed both as a parent and a human" is so ridiculous.  You just called my dad a failure.  That is one of the most ignorant comments I have ever seen on here.  Ever.

 

I find the ones justifying using a piece of leather to strike a small child more ridiculous.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Agreee!!!! She needs a friend and more creativity in schooling and motivating her kids. What kind of police state do we want to become?

 

One where we don't beat children with a belt?

[*Alyssa*]

One where we don't beat children with a belt?

 

ChocolateReign, we are talking about spanking, not beating.   There is a difference, because otherwise a small spanking on the bottom over clothing would be considered a beating.  This does injustice to those who are truly abused.  Only in our recent generation has there been a blurring of the two definitions.

I respect your opinions, though, because it is clear you deeply care about the welfare of children.  Everyone here does or they wouldn't be posting.  :001_smile:

[ChocolateReignRemix]

ChocolateReign, we are talking about spanking, not beating.   There is a difference, because otherwise a small spanking on the bottom over clothing would be considered a beating.  This does injustice to those who are truly abused.  Only in our recent generation has there been a blurring of the two definitions.

I respect your opinions, though, because it is clear you deeply care about the welfare of children.  Everyone here does or they wouldn't be posting.  :001_smile:

 

When someone needs to use an object to strike a child, it has gone well past spanking.  Now granted some of our state laws apparently are still mired in the 1800s, but I stand by my belief that using a piece of leather to strike your child is a beating.

 

And while the bolded is true for most here, I personally don't believe it is true for everyone.

[DianeW88]

As a mandated reporter, no I would not.  It is not illegal in my state, and if I did not see any evidence of it, it's all hearsay.  CPS wouldn't even bother to investigate.  Now, if I saw marks on the child's body during an exam, and the mother admitted it, then I would have to at least make a phone call.

[SKL]

So... you stand around and watch people hit their kids with belts?  :huh:  And then check their bare butts a few hours later for bruises?  That's definitely one of the more bizarre things I've read on this forum.

 

I've been alive a long time.  When I was young, it was perfectly normal for misbehaving kids to "get the belt."  More kids got it than not.  Myself and all my siblings included.
 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

As a mandated reporter, no I would not.  It is not illegal in my state, and if I did not see any evidence of it, it's all hearsay.  CPS wouldn't even bother to investigate.  Now, if I saw marks on the child's body during an exam, and the mother admitted it, then I would have to at least make a phone call.

 

Wait, if you saw marks you still wouldn't report unless the mother admitted it?

Wow.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I've been alive a long time.  When I was young, it was perfectly normal for misbehaving kids to "get the belt."  More kids got it than not.  Myself and all my siblings included.
 

 

I just don't recall looking at the bare butts of my friends after they were spanked.

[SKL]

Wait, if you saw marks you still wouldn't report unless the mother admitted it?

Wow.

 

Most of the time marks on a kid's body are because the kid accidentally hurt herself.

 

There are also birthmarks that can look like bruises.  If you google "mongolian spots" you can imagine this being problematic.  My daughter had a huge dark blue spot on her backside when she was a baby/tot.  It really looked like a fresh bruise from a paddling.  It has mostly faded now.

 

ETA:  I would not report just because I saw a mark.  But if a child told me the mark was from a beating, that would be different.

[umsami]

State laws on Spanking.  http://kidjacked.com/legal/spanking_law.asp

 

A lot of states still allow corporal punishment in schools, too…which surprised me.

 

A lot of how we punish is cultural/how we were raised.  If one's parents hit one with a belt, then it's not often viewed as bad as it is by somebody who was raised with parents who did not spank, rarely spanked, or only used a hand on a clothed bottom. I do a lot of work with family violence in immigrant communities, and I'm surprised at some common methods that just would never even occur to me like spanking somebody with a shoe or slipper/flip-flop, twisting ears, etc.  I have to be careful in how I phrase things, because it can be viewed as attacking/disrespecting their parents…but offering alternatives, especially that work, can be received well.   (And yes, sometimes I'll say…well, that's illegal here…but often I want to stress that it's ineffective.)

 

You could also try modeling behavior… "Oh, when DS does that, I find that not letting him go biking until his school work is done is far more effective than spanking. You'd be surprised."  "Or y'know, I can get so frustrated when DS doesn't get his math homework done.  Sometimes, I need to step back and remember that he has 10 years (0r whatever) to master fractions…and perhaps both of us taking a short break will make approaching it easier." Or give her one of Jane Nelsen's book (I like her A to Z book, 1-2-3 Magic, or something else.  She may not read it, but she might.  It would be worth the $10 IMHO.

 

 

 

[umsami]

Most of the time marks on a kid's body are because the kid accidentally hurt herself.

 

There are also birthmarks that can look like bruises.  If you google "mongolian spots" you can imagine this being problematic.  My daughter had a huge dark blue spot on her backside when she was a baby/tot.  It really looked like a fresh bruise from a paddling.  It has mostly faded now.

 

ETA:  I would not report just because I saw a mark.  But if a child told me the mark was from a beating, that would be different.

 

My DD has Mongolian blue spots. :)  They still haven't faded and she is six.  DH is a mandated reporter and when he first noticed them, he told me to take her to the pediatrician and make sure they were noted in her file to prevent future issues.

 

My DS3 and DS2 are covered in bruised on their legs…not from abuse…but from being daring boys who tend to fall off of their bikes, scooters, and skateboards.

[DianeW88]

Wait, if you saw marks you still wouldn't report unless the mother admitted it?

Wow.

 

I have to follow the law.  Each state is different.  I have to ask how the child got the marks, and listen to her explanation.  Depending on how the marks looked (you can usually get a fairly good idea if they're from an accident or not), and what she said, I would make my decision.
 

I had a child once with a ugly bruise on his leg.  Turns out his brother whacked him with one of those metal Tonka trucks.  Four year old brother fully admitted that to me.  I did not report the incident.

 

Also, I am far less concerned with bruises on legs and arms.  Bruising from abuse tends to be seen on the child's trunk and back, because the parents are trying to hide it.  And small children usually have quite a few bruises from the knees down as a matter of course, so bruising on the legs would not get my attention unless the bruises looked like slap marks or they were welts.

[RanchGirl]

No.  If there were marks on the kids or some other red flag, then yes, but just for getting swats with a belt or spoon, then no.

 

I think that we need to get our definitions straight.  IMO, swatting is a fairly gentle hand motion over the clothes, typically something used on a toddler to make a point the kid can't understand verbally and the parent has no other way of enforcing (like don't run into traffic).  I don't personally think swatting is an effective parenting technique, but it's not in the realm of abusive or beatings.

 

Swatting is not for older children, not on bare skin, couldn't possibly leave a mark and doesn't involve a tool/weapon like a belt or spoon.  Calling a belt used on a 9 year old is really minimizing what is happening, isn't it?  A belt is closer to whipping/beating than it is to swatting is it not?

[Mergath]

State laws on Spanking.  http://kidjacked.com/legal/spanking_law.asp

 

A lot of states still allow corporal punishment in schools, too…which surprised me.

 

A lot of how we punish is cultural/how we were raised.  If one's parents hit one with a belt, then it's not often viewed as bad as it is by somebody who was raised with parents who did not spank, rarely spanked, or only used a hand on a clothed bottom. I do a lot of work with family violence in immigrant communities, and I'm surprised at some common methods that just would never even occur to me like spanking somebody with a shoe or slipper/flip-flop, twisting ears, etc.  I have to be careful in how I phrase things, because it can be viewed as attacking/disrespecting their parents…but offering alternatives, especially that work, can be received well.   (And yes, sometimes I'll say…well, that's illegal here…but often I want to stress that it's ineffective.)

 

You could also try modeling behavior… "Oh, when DS does that, I find that not letting him go biking until his school work is done is far more effective than spanking. You'd be surprised."  "Or y'know, I can get so frustrated when DS doesn't get his math homework done.  Sometimes, I need to step back and remember that he has 10 years (0r whatever) to master fractions…and perhaps both of us taking a short break will make approaching it easier." Or give her one of Jane Nelsen's book (I like her A to Z book, 1-2-3 Magic, or something else.  She may not read it, but she might.  It would be worth the $10 IMHO.

 

I don't know, I think a lot of people go the other way, and are vehemently anti-spanking BECAUSE they had it done to them as children.  I was spanked with hands, belts, wooden spoons, everything you can think of.  Then when I got older and spanking stopped being effective, the abuse got worse.  That experience made me swear that I would never lay a hand on my own child.  And I haven't.  Dd doesn't even understand what the word "spanking" means.

 

That's part of what worries me about situations like this.  If someone is already hitting their kid with a belt at the age of six, what are they going to progress to by ten?  Twelve?

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

Most of the time marks on a kid's body are because the kid accidentally hurt herself.

That old "walked into the door again" thing, right?

Wasn't there an 80's song about child abuse that used that line?

The tapdancing around calling abuse abuse is stunning.

[Mergath]

I have to follow the law.  Each state is different.  I have to ask how the child got the marks, and listen to her explanation.  Depending on how the marks looked (you can usually get a fairly good idea if they're from an accident or not), and what she said, I would make my decision.
 

I had a child once with a ugly bruise on his leg.  Turns out his brother whacked him with one of those metal Tonka trucks.  Four year old brother fully admitted that to me.  I did not report the incident.

 

Also, I am far less concerned with bruises on legs and arms.  Bruising from abuse tends to be seen on the child's trunk and back, because the parents are trying to hide it.  And small children usually have quite a few bruises from the knees down as a matter of course, so bruising on the legs would not get my attention unless the bruises looked like slap marks or they were welts.

 

Not always.  My dad used to grab me by the arms, throw me into stuff, drag me across the floor.  I had bruises and rug burn all over my arms and legs.  

[SKL]

That old "walked into the door again" thing, right?

Wasn't there an 80's song about child abuse that used that line?

The tapdancing around calling abuse abuse is stunning.

 

Really?  My kids get marks on them from accidents all the time.  Right now one of them has cuts on both sides of her face from two different accidents.  The other one has a bruise on her shoulder, one on her knee, and another on her foot.  Your kids never have mishaps?

 

Do people really think CPS has time to be informed every time a child trips over his own feet?

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I have to follow the law.  Each state is different.  I have to ask how the child got the marks, and listen to her explanation.  Depending on how the marks looked (you can usually get a fairly good idea if they're from an accident or not), and what she said, I would make my decision.
 

I had a child once with a ugly bruise on his leg.  Turns out his brother whacked him with one of those metal Tonka trucks.  Four year old brother fully admitted that to me.  I did not report the incident.

 

Also, I am far less concerned with bruises on legs and arms.  Bruising from abuse tends to be seen on the child's trunk and back, because the parents are trying to hide it.  And small children usually have quite a few bruises from the knees down as a matter of course, so bruising on the legs would not get my attention unless the bruises looked like slap marks or they were welts.

 

Okay, but the bolded is not what you indicated above and makes more sense.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

That old "walked into the door again" thing, right?

Wasn't there an 80's song about child abuse that used that line?

The tapdancing around calling abuse abuse is stunning.

 

My Name Is Luka.

[DianeW88]

Okay, but the bolded is not what you indicated above and makes more sense.

 

Sorry I wasn't more clear.  I was trying to answer questions on a grammar lesson and type at the same time. :D
 

[DianeW88]

Not always.  My dad used to grab me by the arms, throw me into stuff, drag me across the floor.  I had bruises and rug burn all over my arms and legs.  

 

I'm so sorry.  That would have gotten my attention, because a child covered in bruises is not normal.  One or two on the shins is expected, but not on every limb, and not multiple bruises on multiple limbs.

[umsami]

I don't know, I think a lot of people go the other way, and are vehemently anti-spanking BECAUSE they had it done to them as children.  I was spanked with hands, belts, wooden spoons, everything you can think of.  Then when I got older and spanking stopped being effective, the abuse got worse.  That experience made me swear that I would never lay a hand on my own child.  And I haven't.  Dd doesn't even understand what the word "spanking" means.

 

That's part of what worries me about situations like this.  If someone is already hitting their kid with a belt at the age of six, what are they going to progress to by ten?  Twelve?

 

Yes, people do go the other way…but for others…that's what they grew up with.  I've had people whose parents were clearly abusive say to me things like 'well, it's a good thing my Dad did that or who knows how I would have turned out."

 

It's nice to think that CPS will step in and provide parenting classes, but in many states, they are just too overworked to do so.  Also, depending on the state, they might not even bat an eye at spanking with a belt or paddle as it's not illegal in all states. 94% of parents report spanking their child at some point.  28% of parents spank their kids with a belt or paddle.  (Not saying that it condones it, but it's common…and not viewed as illegal.)

 

How the punishment will escalate is definitely concerning and that's why focusing on different parenting models now makes more sense IMHO….although corporal punishment seems to decline on its own from studies I've read.

[*Alyssa*]

When someone needs to use an object to strike a child, it has gone well past spanking.  Now granted some of our state laws apparently are still mired in the 1800s, but I stand by my belief that using a piece of leather to strike your child is a beating.

 

And while the bolded is true for most here, I personally don't believe it is true for everyone.

 

A hand is not an object?
 

[RanchGirl]

I overheard a good friend of mine, F, talking to another mother, A, who I am not friends with by my choice.  They are discussing the difficulty of getting school done with babies/toddlers around.  A mentions that she has had to spank her children to get them to do schoolwork, occasionally using a belt.  Her kids are 8/9 and 6/7 (and baby).  If you were a mandated reporter, would this qualify as reportable?

 

I can't vote in the poll because I wouldn't report to CPS without real evidence of abuse, but I do think this family needs intervention.  Hitting a kid with a belt is pretty horrifying to me, and especially when it's just over schoolwork - it makes no sense in the long run.  Your friend is a friend of this mom and your friend is also concerned.  Can the two of you hold your own intervention - sit this gal down to discuss more effective methods?  You mentioned the child has some behavior issues, so maybe she just has nothing else in her toolbox and needs to learn from more experienced mothers.  Bring useful parenting books, suggest a parenting class, and offer to pay and/or watch the kids so she can go.  If her struggles are only with homeschooling, find out what is going on there - does she need help setting up better structure, more flexibility, more confidence?  Does she need a break?  Do the kids need to go to public school so she can be a calm parent?

 

I know you don't like this woman but she and her kids appear to need real help and you and your friend might be the best people to do it.  I don't think CPS will bring any real help and they are likely to make things worse.  I would report to them if I were concerned about ongoing abuse or immediate danger.  If nothing else, having a sit down will give you more information about what might help this family the most.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

One or two on the shins is expected, but not on every limb, and not multiple bruises on multiple limbs.

I am so glad sometimes that my son does not behave in dr's offices. They've seen the why behind his bruises!

More often than not he's got bruises on all limbs, his back, tush, and sometimes his face. It's worse in late spring/early summer (lack of long pants, trying out new skills at the park, lighter skin from winter). He will get bruises on the front of the torso when he turns the yard into a water slide.

[SKL]

This reminds me of the time my kid got a spider bite next to her eye, which made her look like she had been punched.  Although it happened at daycare and the daycare knew how it happened, I took her to the doctor just so I would have a document to prove it, in case someone saw her and jumped to the conclusion that she was abused.

 

I also never answer when someone asks how my kid got a mark on her body.  I let the kid answer without any prompting.  Because I know (and others know) abusive parents will lie about it and prompt their kids to do the same.

 

As a kid I knew a couple of families where the kids were being abused.  The evidence was clearly different from what normal kids get from rough-and-tumble play.  Like rope burns under one boy's knees, a tooth knocked out simultaneous with a broken arm, and being "punished" in the corner for weeks while the injuries healed.

 

In addition, my mom and her siblings were subjected to actual abuse from both parents.  Much more than just being spanked on the butt with a belt.  I heard more than a few interesting stories.

 

Once my sister came home from preschool and reported that her friend had bruises all over her butt.  She asked why, and the friend reported that she'd been beaten for getting into her mother's jewelry.

 

As a student teacher I witnessed a second-grader being shoved into a brick wall (shoulder first) by an impatient teacher.  He wasn't tying his shoes fast enough.

 

I am not an abuse denier.  However, I don't imagine it happens to every child, either.  The idea that spanking is abuse does not help the kids who are really in danger.

[Lolly]

Okay, I am curious, those of you who stated that spanking with a belt is illegal in your state, what state are you living in? I read through (quickly, I admit) all the state's guidelines in the link provided in a previous post. Not a single state mentioned belt use as illegal. I Googled. Could not find a single state where spanking with a belt was illegal. I have a feeling this one is going to be like the "illegal to leave my child at home alone" age question. People THINK it is illegal when in fact it is not. Just curious now, because just because I cannot find it doesn't mean it isn't true, what states specifically outlaw it?

[Mergath]

Okay, I am curious, those of you who stated that spanking with a belt is illegal in your state, what state are you living in? I read through (quickly, I admit) all the state's guidelines in the link provided in a previous post. Not a single state mentioned belt use as illegal. I Googled. Could not find a single state where spanking with a belt was illegal. I have a feeling this one is going to be like the "illegal to leave my child at home alone" age question. People THINK it is illegal when in fact it is not. Just curious now, because just because I cannot find it doesn't mean it isn't true, what states specifically outlaw it?

 

Delaware seems to have outlawed any corporal punishment at all, according to the link.

[AnIslandGirl]

This is how the law in MA reads, "Abuse is defined as, the willful infliction of injury, unreasonable confinement, intimidation, including verbal or mental abuse, or punishment with resulting physical harm, pain or mental anguish or assault and battery; provided, however, that verbal or mental abuse shall require a knowing and willful act directed at a specific person.
Chapter III: Section 72F."

 

As stated, any act that results in physical harm or pain is clearly illegal. Wile it might not specify each and every object that could possibly cause such pain, clearly using an object to strike a child (a belt for example) would be illegal here.

[Lolly]

Delaware seems to have outlawed any corporal punishment at all, according to the link.

 

 

I had missed that one. I guess everything else I found that said all states allowed parental corporal punishment were pre 2012. They are like that state where it is illegal to leave a child 15 or under home alone...There is always one hiding in the 50...