Washington Mudslide -- Snohomish County

[vonfirmath]

On Saturday morning, a mudslide buried a neighborhood in Snohomish County. I've got friends that live up that way (none in the path of danger, praise the Lord) as well as know there are homeschoolers across the mountain from the slide.

 

Anyone else watching this news?

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20140323/NEWS01/140329554/Death-toll-climbs-to-8-in-Oso-mudslide

[umsami]

I just saw that there were 108 missing person reports regarding this.  That is so frightening.  

[Pawz4me]

It's horrible.  And it doesn't seem to be getting as much national attention as it deserves.

[NorthwestMom]

I am so grieved by this. :(

[umsami]

It's horrible.  And it doesn't seem to be getting as much national attention as it deserves.

 

I'm in south Florida and we're hearing about it here.

[Arcadia]

Saw the news last night on ABC7.  The video was scary.

Seattle Times link http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2023210830_mudslidesundayxml.html

 

[wendy not in HI]

That is so scary!  I am so sad for those families!  I had to look up Oso, WA to see if it's close to my sister in Port Angeles (it's not).  What a terrible thing!

[LucyStoner]

Mudslides are nothing new in this region in the spring especially but this is the worst one I have ever heard of. I am hopeful they find more survivors. I thought the number of people still missing was 18. Is 108 accurate (please say no!)?

[vonfirmath]

Mudslides are nothing new in this region in the spring especially but this is the worst one I have ever heard of. I am hopeful they find more survivors. I thought the number of people still missing was 18. Is 108 accurate (please say no!)?

 

18 was clearly too low just by the numbers of names coming up on the Facebook list I watch. It is thought 108 is too large but only time will tell for sure.

[idnib]

We're in the Bay area and almost all winter we had a ridge of high pressure that sent Alaskan storms north. We're in a drought and they got a lot of rain. I also read that deforestation/logging had a lot to do with it. Maybe that's why it was larger than in the past?

 

I think the 108 figure is accurate for those unaccounted for. Some might be traveling or something though.  :crying:

[I.Dup.]

Is 108 accurate (please say no!)?

 

That is the number I'm seeing. It makes sense, since it was a Saturday morning and more people were home. :crying:

[Starr]

One can't imagine such a thing. The link to the woman watching a 25 foot wall of mud coming at her was overwhelming. 

[LucyStoner]

18 was clearly too low just by the numbers of names coming up on the Facebook list I watch. It is thought 108 is too large but only time will tell for sure.

Well crap. No matter the number it is horrible but 108 is just utterly horrifying.

[gardenmom5]

Mudslides are nothing new in this region in the spring especially but this is the worst one I have ever heard of. I am hopeful they find more survivors. I thought the number of people still missing was 18. Is 108 accurate (please say no!)?

 

it's supposedly a consolidated list. but if all they did was add numbers from multiple sources, it could make the list very long because of duplicates.  (that happened after 9/11 - people were on multiple lists and getting counted multiple times.)  It includes people who don't live in the area, but were thought to be there.  they did try to mitigate the number by stating they don't think there are that many in the slide-  it's just possible, and their whereabouts are unkown.

 

dh and I drove near that route a year or so ago, I think we were east of them and turned west further south - it's very sparse and heavily wooded.

 

the most concerning is reports I've read say they aren't hearing anyone calling for help anymore. (and the area stable enough for SAR teams is pretty small.)

 

but at least the river is being "gentle" about finding a new path so that is reducing the danger of the slide dirt dam breaking and flooding downriver.

[umsami]

In reading this article, it appears that a husband/wife scientist team had written that this was a disaster waiting to happen.  When the heck are we going to learn???? Why do we always wait until after a disaster????  It's only going to get worse with science being suspect, and non-scientists holding as much weight as a herd of experts.  Ugh.

 

I'm so heartbroken over this….all the pictures of the families… :(  :(

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2588991/Incredible-shots-sheer-devastation-caused-Washington-landslide-wiped-entire-community-left-14-dead.html

[Trish]

If it had gotten a tenth of the coverage that the missing plane had gotten, this would be all over the news.

 

[umsami]

If it had gotten a tenth of the coverage that the missing plane had gotten, this would be all over the news.

 

Sadly, no pundits with conspiracy theories…thus, not as much coverage. I think things will change, though, now that the Malaysian flight is reported down in the Indian Ocean.

[Slartibartfast]

It is terribly sad.

 

The pictures are horrifying. I find it terrifying that people could build in such dangerous areas, I doubt anyone warned the residents. :(

[TraciWA]

This area is about half hour/ forty five minutes from our house. We like to take drives in the summer and have driven that road many times. I know people that are waiting to hear about loved ones. This is quite devastating and sad. They have the National Guard and FEMA now to help. I am afraid that it is pretty much a recovery mission now.

[LucyStoner]

In reading this article, it appears that a husband/wife scientist team had written that this was a disaster waiting to happen. When the heck are we going to learn???? Why do we always wait until after a disaster???? It's only going to get worse with science being suspect, and non-scientists holding as much weight as a herd of experts. Ugh.

 

I'm so heartbroken over this….all the pictures of the families… :( :(

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2588991/Incredible-shots-sheer-devastation-caused-Washington-landslide-wiped-entire-community-left-14-dead.html

It's the Washington Way! We are still traveling through downtown Seattle on a viaduct we have been warned again and again is past its expiration date in so far as earthquake safety. Construction on the tunnel that is meant to replace it is presently stalled because of equipment failure and they need to keep the viaduct open even longer. Wetland and rural zoning laws up and down the I-5 corridor have been contentious for a long time. It's not entirely unexpected and I am really curious as to how these homes are insured and who sues the state.

[Plateau Mama]

Mudslides are nothing new in this region in the spring especially but this is the worst one I have ever heard of. I am hopeful they find more survivors. I thought the number of people still missing was 18. Is 108 accurate (please say no!)?

The slide area is one square mile. 108 is definitly in the realm of possibility. The death count is currently at 14. They say 176 are reported missing, but that includes the vague reports (a guy named John, with brown hair) and possible duplicates.

[Colleen]

I find it terrifying that people could build in such dangerous areas,

 

Given the variety of natural disasters that can occur ~ often rarely ~ it stands to reason that many homes and neighborhoods exist in potentially "dangerous" spots.  And the reality is that had people been told they had to leave their homes, after the last slide (2006), most would not.  Americans living off the beaten path generally don't respond well to being told where they can or can not reside.  

 

 I am afraid that it is pretty much a recovery mission now.

 

Yes.  If anything, people who want to randomly "help" the search & rescue effort may end up as victims themselves.

 

It's the Washington Way!  

 

Eh, it's not unique to Washington.  As I alluded to above, it's the American way.

[Colleen]

It's horrible.  And it doesn't seem to be getting as much national attention as it deserves.

 

If it had gotten a tenth of the coverage that the missing plane had gotten, this would be all over the news.

 

It's had exceptional coverage, given the scale of the event.  It was on the front page of the online editions of all major national newspapers and family in Europe learned about it promptly via their television & print news.  It's tragic, very frightening ~ I'm an hour away and live in a very similar environment ~ but I'd never expect it to receive a fraction of the coverage granted a disappearing plane.  I'm actually surprised at the extensive attention it's receiving.

[Plateau Mama]

It's the Washington Way! We are still traveling through downtown Seattle on a viaduct we have been warned again and again is past it's expiration date in so far as earthquake safety. Construction on the tunnel that is meant to replace it is presently stalled because of equipment failure and they need to keep the viaduct open even longer. Wetland and rural zoning laws up and down the I-5 corridor have been contentious for a long time. It's not entirely unexpected and I am really curious as to how these homes are insured and who sues the state.

Don't forget the overdue 520 bridge. They have been warning for more than a decade that it will sink in a big windstorm. I wouldn't be surprised if the bridge sinks before the new one is complete due to something with the construction. Circa I-90 bridge.

 

I refuse to use the viaduct and I won't go on 520 if there is any sort of wind. And you will never get me in that new tunnel that may or may not ever be completed that is being built next to the sea wall they have determined needs to be replaced. Just a stupid idea all around.

[Mrs Mungo]

People nearly everywhere in the US live under threat of tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, landslides, heat waves, blizzards, volcanoes, typhoons, earthquakes and more. It's man against geology and weather. Most people by now know about the super-volcano under Yellowstone. We're all living on a ticking time bomb. Every bit of the state of Hawaii is part of one island or another that will someday turn into something like this:

 

We know that the at some point in the geological past, a large chunk of Oahu slid into the Pacific, causing a large tsunami. One of the Canary Islands is set to do the same at some point. When it happens, it will cause a giant tsunami that will heavily damage most of the east coast of the US and put Florida under water. We're all just hedging our bets.

[Cinder]

This is just so sad and horrifying. :crying:

[LucyStoner]

Don't forget the overdue 520 bridge. They have been warning for more than a decade that it will sink in a big windstorm. I wouldn't be surprised if the bridge sinks before the new one is complete due to something with the construction. Circa I-90 bridge.

 

I refuse to use the viaduct and I won't go on 520 if there is any sort of wind. And you will never get me in that new tunnel that may or may not ever be completed that is being built next to the sea wall they have determined needs to be replaced. Just a stupid idea all around.

But it is not like bridges ever wash away or get damaged in wind storms...oh wait. Yes, yes they do. Including that very bridge.

 

I love this state. But I don't much love the Washington way. While kicking the can down the road is not unique to Washington, this region has been identified by the Economist as having the worst transportation planning in the United States. The sea wall and boring that tunnel (if the machine ever starts working again) is an excellent example. We voted how many times on the tunnel? We vote on proposals to study studying the options here.

 

While geological forces are certainly the cause, unstable locations shouldn't be permitted for housing either. And now upwards of a 100 people are probably dead. It's sad but it also makes me mad. We should do better.

 

Edited- to correct my hyperbole. ;)

[Plateau Mama]

We vote on proposals to study studying the options here.

 

While geological forces are certainly the cause, unstable locations shouldn't be permitted for housing either. And now upwards of a 100 people are probably dead. It's sad but it also makes me mad. We should do better.

Yes, how many billions of dollars did we spend studying which study to study for the 520. Now they want more tolls to cover overages. Hmmm, I wonder why there are overages. Don't get me started on the tunnel. Once again we voted no and they decided to do it (the most expensive option) anyway.

 

The official death till is now at 24. ;-(

 

This video is amazing.

 

 

[LucyStoner]

Yes, how many billions of dollars did we spend studying which study to study for the 520. Now they want more tolls to cover overages. Hmmm, I wonder why there are overages. Don't get me started on the tunnel. Once again we voted no and they decided to do it (the most expensive option) anyway.

 

The official death till is now at 24. ;-(

 

This video is amazing.

 

 

They mainly want more tolls because they grossly overestimated how much money the tolling would collect. With the north end of the lake and I-90 not being tolled what did they expect?

[Plateau Mama]

They mainly want more tolls because they grossly overestimated how much money the tolling would collect. With the north end of the lake and I-90 not being tolled what did they expect?

I understand that but they are also trying to get more revenue to pay for overruns.

 

I used to drive around but then I did the math. I live right off of 520. For me to drive to I-90 to avoid a toll going downtown it costs me just as much in gas. Not to mention the extra time. If I'm going to that end of Seattle I will go 90, but Seattle center North I just suck it up.

[Colleen]

I love this state. But I don't much love the Washington way. 

 

Out of curiosity, are you from Washington originally?  Not trying to be argumentative; just curious because I don't perceive any of this as "the Washington way" any more than it might be "the (insert other state name here) way". 

[LucyStoner]

Out of curiosity, are you from Washington originally? Not trying to be argumentative; just curious because I don't perceive any of this as "the Washington way" any more than it might be "the (insert other state name here) way".

Yeah, anyone who notes negative things about this state is generally accused of not really being from Washington. It usually takes about 7 minutes. ;)

 

I have lived in Washington for more than 80% of my life, though not all continuously as my family moved to and from Washington a lot when I was a child. I started kindergarten in Seattle and graduated from public high school and public colleges. I've worked and lobbied at the Capitol. I've lived in the cities and the suburbs and very rural areas. I've lived in Eastern and Western Washington. I'm married to a native son of Eastern Washington. I certainly don't think I can say I am from anywhere else, given I've never lived anywhere else since I was 12 and never lived anywhere else for more than 2 years. To make a long story short, yes. This is my home state.

 

The political machine here is slow and that is the nicest thing that can be said. Zoning laws have been a big issue for a long time. I've paid taxes for large voter approved projects that were later scrapped not once but twice. I've paid for politician approved projects that voters rejected. We have a trademark on meaning well and acting s l o w l y.

[Colleen]

Yeah, anyone who notes negative things about this state is generally accused of not really being from Washington. It usually takes about 7 minutes. ;)

 

I have lived in Washington for more than 80% of my life, though not all continuously as my family moved to and from Washington a lot when I was a child. I started kindergarten in Seattle and graduated from public high school and public colleges. I've worked and lobbied at the Capitol. I've lived in the cities and the suburbs and very rural areas. I've lived in Eastern and Western Washington. I'm married to a native son of Eastern Washington. I certainly don't think I can say I am from anywhere else, given I've never lived anywhere else since I was 12 and never lived anywhere else for more than 2 years. To make a long story short, yes. This is my home state.

 

The political machine here is slow and that is the nicest thing that can be said. Zoning laws have been a big issue for a long time. I've paid taxes for large voter approved projects that were later scrapped not once but twice. I've paid for politician approved projects that voters rejected. We have a trademark on meaning well and acting s l o w l y.

 

Thanks for your reply.  We agree on much, though your first paragraph certainly isn't my experience. And much as we Washingtonians like to believe we're unique, we have plenty of company when it comes to meaning well & acting slowly.  

[Mrs Mungo]

Yeah, anyone who notes negative things about this state is generally accused of not really being from Washington. It usually takes about 7 minutes. ;)

I read Colleen's quote as meaning to imply the opposite-that you maybe don't have the experience to judge other places? You want to talk slow? You should try living in Hawaii. We have the second worst traffic in the country after LA, but ours is actually worse when you figure traffic density instead of drive time. My dd's theater class is 15 miles from my house, but it takes an hour to drive there.

[Colleen]

I read Colleen's quote as meaning to imply the opposite-that you maybe don't have the experience to judge other places? 

 

You got it.  

 

Slow & convoluted, with or without best intentions, is the norm for many a municipality.  Far harder to find the exceptions to that rule.

[suzybluecheese]

Thanks for your reply.  We agree on much, though your first paragraph certainly isn't my experience. And much as we Washingtonians like to believe we're unique, we have plenty of company when it comes to meaning well & acting slowly.  

"I love this state. But I don't much love the Washington way. While kicking the can down the roadis not unique to Washington, this region has been identified by the Economist as having the worst transportation planning in the western world. The sea wall and boring that tunnel (if the machine ever starts working again) is an excellent example. We voted how many times on the tunnel? We vote on proposals to study studying the options here. "

 

But she already addressed that in her original post, didn't she?

[LucyStoner]

I read Colleen's quote as meaning to imply the opposite-that you maybe don't have the experience to judge other places? You want to talk slow? You should try living in Hawaii. We have the second worst traffic in the country after LA, but ours is actually worse when you figure traffic density instead of drive time. My dd's theater class is 15 miles from my house, but it takes an hour to drive there.

My comments on slow have nothing to do with traffic. Traffic issues are but one example of our slow *political system*.

 

When I said we vote on if we should study studying a plan, I only wish that were a joke. Like I said, I get that other places also kick the can down the road. But we do it in a way that is noted as exceptionally inefficient. Not just by cranky locals either.

[Mrs Mungo]

My comments on slow have nothing to do with traffic. Traffic issues are but one example of our slow *political system*.

 

My point was that Hawaii is allowing things like building homes far away from the work center of Honolulu, but doing little to curb the traffic issues that result from such acts.

 

When I said we vote on if we should study studying a plan, I only wish that were a joke. Like I said, I get that other places also kick the can down the road. But we do it in a way that is noted as exceptionally inefficient. Not just by cranky locals either.

Hawaii's environmental study for the building of H-3 took 10 years. They finally voted in favor of a rail system (which is desperately needed, especially if they keep building homes on the Leeward side) in 2008. It is scheduled to be totally completed in *2030*. It is a way too late solution.

[LucyStoner]

I am not sure why my remark, made in a mix of humor and frustration has spawned such a thread detour. The idiosyncrasies of this region's political system are real but it's not like I am claiming we are the only slow system, is it?

 

The Washington way/"Seattle Process" is referenced in numerous major publications and even a fair number of, what else, studies. I am sure it has books and its very own Wikipedia entry. This cerebral talk, talk, do a little, talk, talk, undo a lot, talk, talk, do a little bit more style is what I was referencing.

 

We have been debating and voting and "unvoting" light rail and a monorail since the 1960s. A limited 14 mile span opened in 2009. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/01/us/01seattle.html. The full system won't be finished until who only knows when. Some parts are scheduled for 2021, others are forecasted (no schedule) for 2030ish. The amount we actually paid for a different system we ultimately did not build has nearly built systems in other areas.

[Mrs Mungo]

My earlier point and this one are the same. Many, many regions face similar problems with regard to bureaucracy, weather, geology, etc. 

 

You know when people see a tragedy regarding in a child in the news and jump in with how glad they are that they don't have a pool/don't have a pond/don't let their child cook/whatever? That's what part of the discussion in this thread reminds me of. Nearly every are has issue like this. No, they shouldn't be ignored when there are clear dangers (like in New Orleans), but we  also can't pretend that the rest of us live risk free. That's just not the case, kwim?

[Cinder]

Hawaii's environmental study for the building of H-3 took 10 years. They finally voted in favor of a rail system (which is desperately needed, especially if they keep building homes on the Leeward side) in 2008. It is scheduled to be totally completed in *2030*. It is a way too late solution.

 

When I was in high school they started the H-3. The partly built portion was in Moanalua. We saw it everyday going to and from school. It just hung there in the sky.

 

Then they tore it down. Then I moved away.

 

Then they built it again. And this time they finished.

 

 

I know this is OT but I still remember being confused when my Mom told me my sister moved to Kapolei. I hadn't visited in a long time so I didn't know where this city was because it didn't exist when I lived there.

[Arcadia]

Bumping this thread because PBS Nova has a good video broadcasted on Nov 2014 explaining the Oso landslide. My kids are watching now

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/earth/killer-landslide.html