Not starting SOWT until 2nd grade. Thoughts?

[SereneHome]

I REALLY wanted to do American History for K.  I got Adventures in America.  It didn't happen.  For various reasons, a lot of it is my lack of organization, etc

 

Next year is 1st grade as my oldest will be 6.  But I still want to do American History first.  My main reason is that *I* think it's easier to relate to bc it's here.  We can visit various places that we are reading about, making it more real.

 

Those are my thoughts only.  I honestly don't know where my son's interest is bc we really haven't done any history.  I've been trying to start him on the stories about Mayflower and Native Americans and such for at least two years, but he doesn't seem to be retaining ANYTHING. 

 

I would love to hear thoughts/opinions/suggestions or anything else you'd like to offer.

 

I will admit that I didn't really take K year seriously, but needless to say,  it can't happen again for next year.  1st grade is 1st grade!!

[Hunter]

I personally prefer SOTW 1 for 3rd grade or later, unless I was folding a younger student in with an older one. If I'm going to start an official 4 year rotation, I want the student reading and writing a bit.

[Penelope]

My first two children are three years apart, and we are doing a four year history cycle so far. So when the younger one was in first, we were in modern history, which isn't as interesting to a six yo boy as knights or pyramids. ;) So we did a lighter American history for him that year, hitting major important figures and time periods, learning the names of the Presidents and some patriotic songs. It's been fine. If I really felt like I need to strictly stay with four year cycles through grade 12 (I don't) we could condense a year in middle school and use something like K12 Human Odyssey which is meant to be world history in two years, but spread it out to three, or do the two years of world and one year of American. You could also read and discuss some history over summers in elementary to gradually catch back up if you wanted to.

 

As far as on the other end, I think SOTW4 would still be okay for fifth grade, and I do plan to use it then. You could supplement with related independent reading, do one level outlining, timeline, TWTM history notebooking. And the book is written at a slightly higher level than volume one.

[Aloha2U]

American history and basic geography are perfect for K and 1st grade. That's what I would recommend anyway. Veritas Press doesn't even start their 5 year history cycle until 2nd grade, starting with Old Testament Ancient Egypt. 

[craftyerin]

That's my plan. I did geography/social studies through FIAR in PK and K.  Next year we're doing American for 1st.  I plan to start SOTW in 2nd.  The classical school I taught at pre-kids and pre-homeschooling had random social studies (community, etc) in K, American in 1st, OT/Ancient Egypt in 2nd, Greece/Rome in 3rd, and the equivalent of SOTW 2-4 in grades 4, 5, and 6. I loved that and prefer it to starting in 1st and doing all of the ancients in one year.  We plan to wait, and then to slow it down as well.    

[MommytoFour]

I'm in a similar situation. My oldest son is 5 1/2 (plus I have three 4-year-olds). We'll be doing Adventures in America for his 1st grade year and then SOTW 1 the following year. I'm trying to do history (as well as everything else but math/phonics) as a group.

[boscopup]

It really doesn't matter whether you start it in 1st or 2nd or 3rd. Also, I haven't found 1st grade to be that much different than K. I have a bit higher expectations from a 1st grader, but as far as history and science go, I'm cool if we don't even get to them. It's just 1st grade, not 12th. :)

 

Don't expect retention at this age. The point of history and science at this age is to develop a love of the subjects and to give them exposure - that exposure will give them "pegs" to hang ideas on, but those "pegs" often won't be the ones you're expecting. ;) You'll be coming back around and around. In high school, there should be retention. In 1st grade, it really does not matter. When your child is in college, you won't be able to tell a difference between him and the kid that did SOTW starting in 1st (or the kid that didn't do any history at all in 1st), all other things being equal. :tongue_smilie:

 

My current 1st grader will start Ancients next year in 2nd. He's currently tagging along in modern history (year 4). We're mostly reading good picture books. He does not have a solid timeline in his head. He couldn't tell you who was president during WW2. That's ok. He'll get this stuff again, and the next time he sees it, he'll be like, "Oh yeah, I vaguely remember reading about that before." Or not. He might have no recollection of it ever happening. :D I remember reading a novel to my oldest the summer before 1st grade. The following summer, I had him read that novel himself. It was brand new to him! He didn't remember us ever reading it, and even when he started getting into the story, he couldn't remember what happened next. The things he does remember from that age are usually things that I had already forgotten. Kids have funny memories!

 

Also, on the subject of US vs. world history... I haven't found that to matter much with my kids either. My oldest didn't really start to appreciate visiting a historical spot until 3rd or 4th grade. My 1st grader has no appreciation for a historical spot. It really doesn't make it any more real to him to say a battle was fought on this land... if he isn't seeing the battle being fought. It's still too abstract a concept. And something happening in Europe or Africa or Asia vs. happening two states over really doesn't make much difference to him either. So do what you think would be fun and interesting.

 

We did US history last year and part of this year (then switched to a US-heavy world history). My DH took my 4th grader to Boston last fall, and he was better able to understand what went on there than he would have in 1st grade. We had read some books that made it more familiar also (like Johnny Tremain), which were well above the head of my 1st grader. So for my oldest, I'm glad I did Ancients in 1st and hit US history in 3rd and 4th. That worked out really well. It also would have been fine to hit US history in 4th and 5th.

[KrissiK]

Because of the ages of my kids, we started in 2nd grade with SOTW and then skipped Modern on the first go round. Now we're doing Ancients agag with my older boys and the first time with my daughter. It's working out fine.

[SereneHome]

I'm in a similar situation. My oldest son is 5 1/2 (plus I have three 4-year-olds). We'll be doing Adventures in America for his 1st grade year and then SOTW 1 the following year. I'm trying to do history (as well as everything else but math/phonics) as a group.

 

A bit OT - I had 3 kids in 3 yrs and everyone is like "whoa, how do you do it".  If my math is correct, you had 4 kids in 2 yrs - I would like to personally nominate you for the mother of the century award!!!!

 

BTW, you probably don't live anywhere near me, but it would have been cool to do it together :)

[SereneHome]

Boscopup and everyone else

 

Thank you!!  This helps.

 

So, where DOES US history fall in a 4 yr rotation?

 

 

[MommytoFour]

A bit OT - I had 3 kids in 3 yrs and everyone is like "whoa, how do you do it".  If my math is correct, you had 4 kids in 2 yrs - I would like to personally nominate you for the mother of the century award!!!!

 

BTW, you probably don't live anywhere near me, but it would have been cool to do it together :)

 

They are adopted... all four of them are within 19 months total (the youngest three within six months). :)

[kiwik]

I'm in a similar situation. My oldest son is 5 1/2 (plus I have three 4-year-olds). We'll be doing Adventures in America for his 1st grade year and then SOTW 1 the following year. I'm trying to do history (as well as everything else but math/phonics) as a group.

With that situation I would do two years of something else unless your four year olds are keen on history.

[SereneHome]

They are adopted... all four of them are within 19 months total (the youngest three within six months). :)

 

Adopted or birthed, my nomination statnds!!!! 

[zenjenn]

I started SotW 1 when my children were 1st and 3rd grade. 

 

Honestly my then-3rd grader got WAY more out of it than my 1st grader did. In fact, those same kids are 3rd and 5th grade respectively now, and while we're on SotW 3 now my younger stopped me a few weeks ago and said.. "Wait. I hardly remember ANYTHING from Volume 1. Can I start over?"

 

I don't think it was a waste to do it in 1st grade, but through that process her basic takeaway was social studies basics. The 3rd grader is the one that *really* remembered the narrative.

 

I have no regrets, because at the time read aloud together worked well for our family. But if a friend asked me about it for an only or eldest child I'd advise them to wait a year or two.

 

My oldest incidentally in 2nd grade, we did American History using American Girl historical fiction as a launching point for study. She learned so much from that.

[EKS]

 

So, where DOES US history fall in a 4 yr rotation?

 

People do it during the last two years.

 

I've done it that way, but I've found I prefer to separate out a detailed study of American history into its own year.  So this is my preferred sequence:

 

K: Geography and American history

1st:  World history prehistory to 500 AD

2nd:  World history 500-1450

3rd:  World history 1450-present

4th:  American history

5th:  World history prehistory to 1450

6th:  World history 1450-1914

7th:  World history 1914-present

8th:  Geography

9th:  American history

10th:  World history prehistory-1450 (or do it all in one year)

11th:  World history 1450-present (or elective)

12th:  Elective

[RootAnn]

We started SOTW1 when my oldest was in 2nd & next one was in K. Worked out great. I decided to skip SOTW4 (sensitive dd#2) & do a year of American History instead.

 

We circled around back to SOTW1 last year & are now doing SOTW2 with dd#2 (5th), dd#3 (2nd/3rd), and ds#1 (K). I plan on doing SOTW4 this time, so I don't know when I'll get American History in with dd#3. 

 

I think starting later for the oldest was FINE. You have several options for US History:

A)  Add extra to SOTW3 & 4 as you go along. It'll probably stretch out those two books & make them take longer.

B)  Skip SOTW3 and/or SOTW4 & do American History that year (or years) instead

C)  Do American History on the side -- as a separate subject -- while you are also covering SOTW. If you want to stretch it out to four years, just add in one day a week of Am. History each year. Or, if you want to cover it faster, do it twice a week & World History twice a week. It might take two or three years to cover US History that way.

D)  Squish SOTW1-4 into less time (two or three years) and take the 'gained' time to do US History.

 

My K'er remembers the most & answers the questions the best of the three who are supposed to be taking the course. (My oldest always answers the best if I allow her to.) And dd#2 remembers a TON from the first time through. She able to understand more of it this time & make more connections between events & times & places. But she definitely remembers the first time through.

[My3girls]

We started in 2nd.

[sagira]

With my first we did SOTW 1 in first grade, and with my second we're doing SOTW 1 in 2nd grade - with 6th grade big brother also doing Ancients in his studies.

[Crimson Wife]

DS did U.S. history in K4 and K5/"transition" (he has a November birthday and needed a year between K as a not-quite-5 y.o. and 1st as a not-quite-7 y.o.) Then he did a year of world geography in 1st (this was driven by DD thinking as a 5th grader that Argentina was one of the 50 states). So he's doing SOTW 1 this year in 2nd. It's a bit easy for him so I'm having him do the SOTW tests and also selected parts of the Memoria Press "Famous Men of Greece" and "Famous Men of Rome" study guides. Next year in 3rd he'll continue on with SOTW 2 and MP "Famous Men of the Middle Ages".

[North Coast School]

We are starting SOTW (Ancients) next fal with DS in 2nd and DD is 4th.  DD wasn't ready for it until now due to learning differences and DS is in school this year for 1st grade.  For kindy, I did a simple "how to read a map" study with DS.  We talked about landforms, the globe, the compass rose, direction...It was a fun study and a great way to pepare him for what is to come.

[DWHS]

We are finishing two years of world history using A Child's History of the World primarily and will be doing US history next year. I like that they will have a broad framework that the US history will fit into and think that would be one benefit of starting with world history. 

[ondreeuh]

We are curriculum twins! I had planned on doing Adventures in America for K but it wasn't a good fit for us then. I am planning on using it for 1st. I have the History Pockets and some scholastic craft books to supplement, and we can watch Liberty's Kids. The thing about AiA is that it incorporates LA skills nicely (narration and copywork, at least) and it is super easy to schedule for 3 days a week, or 2 if you do the state study. I feel some sort of pressure to start SotW in 1st to be "on schedule" but that is silly when I realize that it will be better understood and retained if we wait. I do plan on playing the CDs at least to familiarize him with the books before we read them formally. I am actually thinking of doing world geography and cultures in 2nd grade and then starting SotW in 3rd. If we do books 1-4 with American history supplements in grades 3-6, then we can use Human Odyssey 1-2 in 7th and 8th.

[Chloe]

I personally prefer SOTW 1 for 3rd grade or later, unless I was folding a younger student in with an older one. If I'm going to start an official 4 year rotation, I want the student reading and writing a bit.

Same here.  We focus on biographies of famous Americans and a light overview of American history before starting Ancients.

[boscopup]

Boscopup and everyone else

 

Thank you!!  This helps.

 

So, where DOES US history fall in a 4 yr rotation?

 

There is some mention of ancient americas in the earlier books, but the bulk of US history is in years 3 and 4.

 

For my oldest, we did SOTW 1 and 2 in 1st and 2nd grade. He then started picking up the book and reading it himself every chance he got, so I went ahead and ordered SOTW 3 and 4 early. He read the whole series, then went back and read it again. Due to that, I decided to drop world history in 3rd and just do US history. We were continuing that in 4th (it was a 2 year study), but the program I was using used a lot of historical fiction, and I was burned out on historical fiction. :tongue_smilie: Then the program I'm using now had a free unit offer last October, and I tried out Year 4, Unit 1. Fell in love (was planning to use it for Year 1 next year anyway), and we've continued. This program is more US-centric than SOTW, but my oldest has already read SOTW 4 several times, and he has electronic copies on his Kindle (those copies were his birthday present last year). My younger kids wouldn't be interested in SOTW 4 yet.

 

There are many ways to get US history into a 4 year rotation. :)

[pitterpatter]

I'm not sure it really matters, but I love the idea of the four-year-cycle, so that's what we've been doing. FYI, we started Ancients when DD was five and she absolutely LOVED it! I wasn't so sure about it before we started, but I'm so glad we did. She has been a history hound ever since. This year during first grade we have been studying Medieval Times. American History starts at the very end of Medieval Times (Native American history anyway). Then, you study it about half the year for Early Modern (up to Lincoln) and then pick it up again during Modern Times. Actually, I'm not sure of SOTW's scheduling, but that's how it is with HO with Usborne as the spine.

One thing I'm worried about with American History is studying slavery, but I feel so much more confident about that now because we started with Ancients. Since slavery has long been a fixture of world history, it won't be out of context when we get to it in US history.

[Crimson Wife]

One thing I'm worried about with American History is studying slavery, but I feel so much more confident about that now because we started with Ancients.

I actually think it's easier to keep U.S. history positive than it is early modern and modern world history. That was one reason we jumped ship after medieval times to U.S. history the first time through the cycle. With slavery, we focused on the fight against injustice. So DS read picture books about Harriet Tubman and the Underground Railroad, etc.

[Guest]

I totally think you're fine. We have mostly done a mish-mash US history up to this point, but we did do a "false start" of SOTW at the end of my son's 1st grade. We finished our program early and so we picked and read a few chapters out of it. We are now doing SOTW 1 again for real, (now 1st & 3rd grade) and ds just said to me yesterday, "Are we almost to Rome again? I liked reading about Rome last time." I thought that was cool.

[fourisenough]

My DD3 started SOTW Vol. 1 one month before her 7th birthday (not sure if I consider that 1st or 2nd grade as she is a late-fall birthday).  That seemed to be about perfect.  I will say that she doesn't remember a LOT from that year's history studies, but I don't regret beginning then.  She'll finish Vol. 4 as a mature 10 year-old and, paired with memory work from CC, will, I suspect, have a very, very solid grasp and love of history at that point.  

 

I will probably wait until DD4 (currently 4.5) is 7 to begin SOTW.  We'll spend her K and 1st grade years doing MP K Enrichment and CC memory work.

[Elisabet1]

Not a big deal at all. In fact, in the books it addresses starting the first book at 1-4grades, and the second at 2-5 grades. It is meant to be a multi-aged program. This means if you chose to start it at 2nd grade, you are still great! You are still in the target ages. I started it at 3rd grade, because that was the first year we home schooled (my now 19 yr old, we have the earlier versions of the CDs).

[HS Mom in NC]

Here's a link to a very recent discussion about that:

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/506852-first-grade-american-history-alongside-ancient-history/

[Tanikit]

My DD did SOTW1 in K and is doing SOTW2 now in 1st. Yes, she is young to be doing this and I do not expect retention - just exposure, but she does enjoy it and has learnt a lot. Obviously the older children get more out of it then the younger, but this will apply to anything - and we can't keep delaying just so that they get more out of it - I would rather do it young and then repeat it - that way they would get even more out of it.

 

However at some point I want to do our local history and geography - geography in many ways is easier to do where I live as the history we have available to teach is complex and violent and not really suitable for young children - mostly I just read them children's literature written in our own country now and discuss aspects that are suitable with them instead - I also will tell them modern history and let them talk to their grandparents about other modern history. Taking them to local museums and monuments also gives them some idea of the history of the area too without being overwhelming. So for now we are working with children's stories (some non fiction and other fictional) for local history.

[Mommyfaithe]

I personally prefer SOTW 1 for 3rd grade or later, unless I was folding a younger student in with an older one. If I'm going to start an official 4 year rotation, I want the student reading and writing a bit.

I agree completely!! I have started my kids in Sotw in 3rd grade and it was great. They were ready. Any younger would not have worked for them.

[Rosie_0801]

So, where DOES US history fall in a 4 yr rotation?

 

I'm inserting Australian history into SOTW. This means we did some work on the Aborigines after the SOTW chapter on early nomads, and won't mention us again until about volume 3, lol.

[HS Mom in NC]

Sit down and think about your long term goals and consider which short term and mid term goals will help you get there if you haven't already. The question really is, "What do you think about the four year rotation at the 3 different levels of The Trivium?"  If you don't care about that, then waiting until later to start world history can make sense in your situation.  If you care about World History on a four year rotation AND you want to do it at the Grammar, Logic and Rhetoric stages, then waiting or skipping will ruin your plans.  Not everyone here is on board with a Trivium Model of Classical Education and that's perfectly fine.   Others are following that model or at least part of that model so starting sooner rather than later may make sense for them.

Some people are doing variations on it like 4 years of World History and 1 year of more in depth (insert your nationality here)  History at the Grammar stage and then doing 4 years of World History, 1-2 years of (insert your nationality here)  History/Civics/ Political Philosophy at a sort of mix between the Logic and Rhetoric Stages.  There are lots of options, but if you wait to the last minute to think about it or you never really develop a long and longer view of where you want to be 5 and 10 years from now, you may have fewer options later because you're out of time.

 

 

[SereneHome]

Such amazingly helpful responses.  Thank you!!

 

I do need to think/figure out what *my* plans are and what his abilities/interests are.  He doesn't seem to be retaining history at all and I think it's bc he is just not interested in it.  Or bc I haven't made it interesting.  I don't know. 

 

It's hard for me  bc I LOVE history, so I can't relate to not wanting to learn it. 

 

When we first started, i thought may be it was too much information for him or something and he was too little to remember it all.  But then we did an Astronomy curriculum, something he was really interested in, and he remembers EVERYTHING.  But after almost two years, he can barely remember  "England" and "pilgrims". 

 

I think I need to find a new approach.   He loves crafts, may be I'll just do some History Pockets activities or something

 

 

 

[Lissande]

I'm inserting Australian history into SOTW. This means we did some work on the Aborigines after the SOTW chapter on early nomads, and won't mention us again until about volume 3, lol.

 

I am planning to do the same with this country's history - just take some extra time at the appropriate points in SOTW. So I guess we'll pick up with the Slavs sweeping across the steppes in the migration of nations sometime in Volume 2. :)