Trouble with a teenage boy

[Renee in NC]

I have a 15yo ds is giving me a lot of trouble.  This most recent incident pushed me past the "let's deal with this with reason and logic" because I am not sure that he has any at this point.  At this time, on top of the basics of food/shelter/etc., I pay for a smartphone, give him money, and go 20 miles out of my way to take him to school at least 3 days a week (the bus comes at 6am.)  I let him have friends over, and I feed them.  I buy Mountain Dew just for him.  He does not appreciate any of this - he thinks he is entitled to all of these things.

 

He is allowed to go with friends on school nights.  This is a concession I made due to what I was calling "heavier responsibilities."  Really, he has to be here at times to take care of the other kids.  Their father is supposed to have visitation every Friday and every other Saturday.  He works on the weekends, though, so someone has to be with kids during the day if I am not here.  I can't get anyone involved to understand that this is his *Dad's* time with them, and he is babysitting for HIM, not me.  His Dad doesn't even get the concept that he is responsible for them during his visitation, even if he has to work.  In reality, his Dad should find a babysitter when I am not willing to be here.  Let me also say that the majority of the time when he is "babysitting" he is asleep, and my 12yo does the actual care-taking.  This has happened about every other weekend for the past 6 weeks or so, but only 1 of those weekends did he watch them both days (I was out of town.)  Usually it is just a few hours on Saturday.

 

So, on Tuesday, he was supposed to be home at 9, but wasn't home until 10:30 (and this was after we had to hunt him down and tell him to get home.)  I grounded him for a week (he just can't leave the house.)  I gave him Halloween as a concession even, but he had to be home at 10.  It was a concession that I shouldn't have made in retrospect.  He texted me at 8 wanting to stay out later, but I said no.  This led him to be absolutely NASTY to me in texts, and his Dad had to go pick him up 30 minutes away, and he ended up not getting home until after 11 anyway.

 

I can't do this anymore.  I am a single mother to 6 at home.  I work, and I am gone from home 11 hours a day.  I do not receive child support.  Visitation happens at MY HOUSE because their Dad doesn't have somewhere he can take them.  (This is adding to the babysitting perception problem - if they were at his house, it would be more clear who the 15yo is babysitting for.)  I provide the food for visitation.  Even when they are with their Dad, if I am here they come to me for everything.   I am still somewhat supporting him as well.  I am TIRED. 

 

I am MAKING his Dad deal with this as much as possible at this point.  He is making all of us MISERABLE.  He won't do chores, yet tells his Dad he cleans "the whole house once a week." This is NOT true.  Even getting him to wash dishes is a fight.  He smokes, and his Dad at times is the one buying them for him (the 15yo buys his Dad a pack or two when he is out of money, and so he'll make the purchase for the 15yo too.)  I cannot physically make him go to school.  I cannot physically make him do chores.  He refuses to do pretty much anything.  He wants to live with his Dad, but he can't because his Dad rents a bedroom in someone's home (he's on his 3rd place since April.)

 

His Dad admitted last night that the 15yo treats me this way because this is the way HE treated me, too.  The boys have never been made to respect me, and he undermined me CONSTANTLY when we were living in the same house.  This modeled behavior is causing me untold grief as I try to rear my kids, work, better myself, etc.  Yes, things have gotten worse since his Dad and I split, but he has always had these attitudes - the manifestation is just different.

 

I am looking for family counseling, but so far all I have hit are waitlists.  I am not sure what I am looking for from the Hive.  I don't think this is a JAWM post, but be gentle with me please.

[bettyandbob]

How responsible is the 12 yo?

How many hours at a time are needed for babysitting? Is it just after school to dinner? Will your locality allow the 12 yo to be in charge for after school? Based on my personal experience you are on limited time counting on the 15 yo.

 

I had a very difficult 15yo, who became worse as 16yo and the 17yo. he went away to a military college for one year at 17-18. He's home now taking cc classes and much easier to be around . Being far (many states) away helped him. I don't consider him as responsible as his younger sister, but he's not a major disruption to the household anymore. Besides being away, I think he realizes he's 18 and I don't have to let him stay.

 

I think the issue is control, just like with a toddler. You really have all the control. He knows dad has no place for him to live. If the younger child can do after school babysitting, I'd try to get the 15yo to work more or do some after school thing so he didn't come home. He should not just hang with friends. Having a focus on a job or school program should occupy his time. Just hanging with friends often leads to trouble. At least among the population I see at my work (alternative hs) . So, I discourage "just hanging out."

 

If I remember correctly one of your ds has LDs. Is this the one. If so, school is probably unpleasant. In addition to working more, I'd look at what programs were available in your district that might interest him. There might be vocational programs at other schools. Or maybe he could get into tech theatre at his own school.. I've known a few tech theatre kids. They learn to operate all the electronic stuff, some get certifications for that and operate sound systems professionally. It's something they feel competent with. So, I'd encourage a look at all programs. If he doesn't do well academically, he sees no point in school. If he can start looking at it as a 3 year plan to independence that may help. So, if school has things like programs in engine repair or HVAC or prehaelth (EMT) he might develop a focus. When you can have pleasant one on one time talk to him.

 

I'd start forgetting to get Mountain Dew.

[Chris in VA]

I'm so sorry, Renee. I can literally feel the helplessness and frustration in your post, b/c I've felt something similar with my ds--your post is quite uncomfortable! 

 

I don't have any wisdom for you. It seems to me that deep hurt might be causing your son's behavior. Divorce, even when warranted and the best option, as it sounds in your case, is still a loss. IME, teens often express loss and hurt as anger and really crappy acting out/disrespect/neg behavior. 

 

I think you are doing the right thing, to be looking for a family counselor who specializes in your type of situation and can perhaps not only equip you and your family to deal with the feelings, but also explore abuse/neglect issues that you've said have been modeled to your son. 

 

It sounds like someone who could help you problem solve and plan would be helpful, too. 

 

I hope someone else has good advice for you. 

 

Hang in there--I am SO sorry it's this hard. 

[kewb]

I am sorry you are having such a difficult time right now.

 

My thoughts:

1. No more Mountain Dew. 

2. No more hanging out with friends on a school night.

3. Take the bus.  If he misses it-the gas money comes out of the money you are already giving him.

4. Dad needs to step up to the plate and tell ds that he was wrong to treat you that way and apologize to your son for setting such a lousy example.  Dad also needs to let him know that the behavior will not be tolerated any longer.  Dad also needs to lay it on the line about the fact that it is not possible for ds to live with him and to stop harping on it.

5. You can not physically make him do chores but you also do not have to do anything for him. If he is unwilling to do his part as a member of the family then you do not have to do things for him-such as his laundry.  And you can deduct the cost of his using your washer and dryer from the money you already give him.

6. You need to sit him down and tell him you love him and that you know this is a difficult time for everyone and that you are doing the best you can.  That you need him to do his part as a member of the family and that you appreciate him. As a 15 year old boy he is in a weird place.  Not quite an adult and not a kid.  Expectations of adult behavior but not really emotionally there plus the added stresses of divorce and increased responsibilities.

 

Your situation is not going to be fixed overnight and counseling will definitely help.

[Renee in NC]

Quick response because I am at work on my phone.

 

The 12yo babysits after school. The 15yo has to be there for weekend days where no adults will be present for more than a couple of hours. The 12yo is the responsible one. He is also one of the ones with LDs, and they just make him work harder.

 

The 15yo works for my Dad occasionally and sometimes for other people. He cannot get a regular job because he isn't 16 yet, and he has no transportation but us (we live about 8 miles out of town.) His current plan is to drop out of school at 16 (can't stop him from doing that either.)

 

I will not be giving him money anymore - he has to earn it. I will start paying for babysitting. If he wants me to take him to school, he can pay for it. If he wants Mt. Dew, he can pay for it. He can pay for his phone.

 

I'm going to start seeing my therapist again, and keep working on finding a family counselor.

[Jenny in Florida]

Renee, please know that I say this with nothing but compassion, because I know you are working hard to do the very best you can under difficult circumstances, but it sounds to me like your son is in a tough place. Neither parent is there for him, really. You are working, and his dad is not living with him and not reliable. (I'm not saying you are a bad parent, just that you are, by necessity, gone much of the time). Your son is being asked to handle a certain amount of adult responsibility (care for his siblings when his parents are absent), but has no meaningful control over his life.

 

What does he have that is "his?"

 

What is there to make it worth getting out of bed each day?

 

What is he interested in, and what are you and his dad doing to support those interests?

 

Does he have any kind of plan for his future? Does he see the path he'll need to take to get there? Is it clear how what he's doing now will contribute to his goals?

 

What choices does he have about his days, other than whether or not to go see friends and whether he should come home on time?

 

Obviously, disrespect and outright defiance are not appropriate strategies for him to improve things. But, in the situation you describe, I think it's probably completely normal for a guy that age to feel at loose ends and to look for any opportunities to assert control over whatever aspect of his life he can.

[jelbe5]

I am so sorry. I agree with what others have said. Eliminate the things your son feels "entitled" to (car rides, Mountain Dew, phone, pocket money, etc.). You are not receiving child support so you probably can't afford these things anyway.

 

If your son wants any of those things badly enough he can look for a job for himself, especially since he seems unwilling to work for you.

 

Have a heart to heart with him. Can you look at counseling for the two of you?

 

I have one harsh suggestion . . . if you don't think your oldest can get it together and improve behavior and attitude I would have him go live with dad. His behavior is going to impact how your younger children think they can treat you if it is allowed to continue.

 

I'm so sorry . . .

 

ETA - just saw your above post that he is planning to drop out of school at 16. Is there a tech or vocational program he can enroll in? Some good men who could teach him a trade? I would make it very clear that if he drops out of school he will be expected to work and pay room and board. Are you prepared to ask him to leave your home if he plans to do nothing?

[kroe1]

You may not want to hear this, but I kicked my son out of the house when I found out he was smoking. The difference was he was 18, not 15. No one could call DHS on me at that age. At any rate, DS lived out of his car for awhile! at friends's houses, etc. He dropped out of school, I did not hear from him at all for almost two years. It was extremely painful, but I do not have regrets. He is now a loving dad, ER physician, and a great friend and a non-smoker.

 

Bottom line, sometimes we have to give our kiddos a stiff kick, no matter what that may mean. By coddling and second guessing ourselves, we are allowing a kiddo's self destruction.

 

Big hugs and prayers.

[Miss Mousie]

I'm so sorry you're in such a tough situation, Renee.  It sounds like nothing is coming easily these days.  :grouphug:

 

Two thoughts:

 

Don't stop paying for his phone - or get him a cheap tracfone instead of whatever he may have now.  If you hadn't been able to text with him last night, it could have been much worse than Dad fetching him at 11:00.  I think you need to keep him in contact.

 

The second thought is far more difficult to implement:  you need to get him on your side.  It will be tricky to do without risking him feeling like he has to be the new "man of the house" - too heavy a burden at this age! - but maybe if he can understand that the little ones are hurting, too, and that he as big brother can help them feel safe and loved, it may soften his heart toward you, as well.

 

Generally, and as usual, I think Chris in VA and Jenny in FL have great ideas and food for thought.

 

 

 

[elegantlion]

  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  ((Renee)) :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[QueenCat]

:grouphug: Renee :grouphug:

[gingersmom]

:grouphug:  :grouphug: 

[Renee in NC]

Renee, please know that I say this with nothing but compassion, because I know you are working hard to do the very best you can under difficult circumstances, but it sounds to me like your son is in a tough place. Neither parent is there for him, really. You are working, and his dad is not living with him and not reliable. (I'm not saying you are a bad parent, just that you are, by necessity, gone much of the time). Your son is being asked to handle a certain amount of adult responsibility (care for his siblings when his parents are absent), but has no meaningful control over his life.

 

What does he have that is "his?"

 

What is there to make it worth getting out of bed each day?

 

What is he interested in, and what are you and his dad doing to support those interests?

 

Does he have any kind of plan for his future? Does he see the path he'll need to take to get there? Is it clear how what he's doing now will contribute to his goals?

 

What choices does he have about his days, other than whether or not to go see friends and whether he should come home on time?

 

Obviously, disrespect and outright defiance are not appropriate strategies for him to improve things. But, in the situation you describe, I think it's probably completely normal for a guy that age to feel at loose ends and to look for any opportunities to assert control over whatever aspect of his life he can.

 

 

His current interests and future goals involve performance cars.  In order to support this, he has two project vehicles - a 98 Ford Ranger and a 65 Mustang.  I provide the funding for both projects.  We have provided him with tools and opportunity.

 

I don't micromanage teens, though this one doesn't seem to be able to handle the responsibility of that.  I am not sure what you mean by "no meaningful control of his own life?"  He is required by law to go to school - the school social worker has already been in contact with us about his absences and other issues.  I require that he be home at a certain time, and that he not terrorize us when he is home.  I require that his room not be a hazard if he needed to escape in a fire.  He doesn't have a bedtime.  I don't tell him what he can and can't wear.  I don't try and control what he eats or drinks.  I don't harp on him about his smoking, but he may not smoke in my house.  He occasionally has to babysit, and in exchange he gets a smartphone, the Mt Dew, spending money, etc..  I'm nor sure what other control I have over him?

 

As for his parents being available for him - it is what it is.  I have to work, and I have 5 children younger than he who need me.

 

I am so sorry. I agree with what others have said. Eliminate the things your son feels "entitled" to (car rides, Mountain Dew, phone, pocket money, etc.). You are not receiving child support so you probably can't afford these things anyway.

 

If your son wants any of those things badly enough he can look for a job for himself, especially since he seems unwilling to work for you.

 

Have a heart to heart with him. Can you look at counseling for the two of you?

 

I have one harsh suggestion . . . if you don't think your oldest can get it together and improve behavior and attitude I would have him go live with dad. His behavior is going to impact how your younger children think they can treat you if it is allowed to continue.

 

I'm so sorry . . .

 

ETA - just saw your above post that he is planning to drop out of school at 16. Is there a tech or vocational program he can enroll in? Some good men who could teach him a trade? I would make it very clear that if he drops out of school he will be expected to work and pay room and board. Are you prepared to ask him to leave your home if he plans to do nothing?

 

I cannot ask him to leave my home at 16 - it is against the law.  I am required to provide for him and care for him until he is 18, regardless of his educational choices.  He cannot enroll in a tech program until he gets his GED, and then if he does, how will he get there?  He cannot get a license until he has had a permit for a year, and he cannot get his permit until he is passing 3 out of 4 classes or graduated.

 

He has skills.  He works with/for my Dad and others.  He can run equipment (skidsteer, excavator, tractor,etc.)

 

He cannot live with his Dad because his Dad doesn't have a home of his own.  I agree about the younger children, which is why I am where I am with this.

[jelbe5]

Could he live with your father and work full time for him? Would he respond to Grandather's rules, structure and guidance?

 

I am sorry there do not seem to be acceptable solutions. Does the school offer an alternative option for teens who are at risk for dropping out? Could the social worker help in any way? What are the consequences to your son for non-attendance before 16 (or do the consequences only fall on you)?

 

Could he be depressed and be acting out because of that?

[NorthwestMom]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I just applaud you for doing the absolute best you can under these circumstances. You sound like a great mom to me.

[Rosie_0801]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:

[RoughCollie]

You have my complete sympathy, from the bottom of my heart. 

[Kim in Appalachia]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I have no words of wisdom, just sending you a cyber hug. 

[love_reading]

Please don't lose your hope. He is a great kid, but just undergoing too many changes for his age. I am really not very experience as others here who have given lots of ideas as how to overcome your issue.
But you are doing a great job bringing up your kids on our own. They will be proud of you.

Its just that a bad time, which will pass over. My hugs to you and your little family.

[bettyandbob]

Does your school district not have vocational programs for high school students?

[Renee in NC]

Does your school district not have vocational programs for high school students?

 

For 11th and 12th graders, at the community college.  He has to have a C average to qualify, and have his own transportation.  Due to the "Future Ready" requirements, all students are on a college prep track.  I wish they did have a vocational high school, because that is what he needs.

 

The only alternative school is for those who are not allowed in the regular schools for some reason - mostly due to expulsion.  He is not going there.

[Lilaclady]

:grouphug: :grouphug:

[NCMom]

For 11th and 12th graders, at the community college. He has to have a C average to qualify, and have his own transportation. Due to the "Future Ready" requirements, all students are on a college prep track. I wish they did have a vocational high school hu, because that is what he needs.

 

The only alternative school is for those who are not allowed in the regular schools for some reason - mostly due to expulsion. He is not going there.

Not true as of the spring semester; there are now certain career part ways open to younger students. Unfortunately, no track involving mechanic/autobody stuff is listed for 9th and 10th graders in the catalog I have but there are other choices. Could he/would he do dual enrollment?

 

It's really motivating my younger one to have that option next term. Then (assuming he is a 10th grader now) he could do a track more suited to his interest next fall. Might it spark a change in attitude?

 

I'm so sorry you're having a tough time.

Georgia

[Twigs]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[Renee in NC]

Not true as of the spring semester; there are now certain career part ways open to younger students. Unfortunately, no track involving mechanic/autobody stuff is listed for 9th and 10th graders in the catalog I have but there are other choices. Could he/would he do dual enrollment?

 

It's really motivating my younger one to have that option next term. Then (assuming he is a 10th grader now) he could do a track more suited to his interest next fall. Might it spark a change in attitude?

 

I'm so sorry you're having a tough time.

Georgia

 

I am not sure how that plays out practically - I just looked at what his high school offers and there isn't much.  The requirements on the community college website (which is where our automotive career pathway is) say a GPA of 3.0, which is much higher than his.  He is in a Core and Sustainable Construction class, which is the only one he is currently passing.  He did repair a seized up drill press for the teacher a few weeks ago - I wonder if he got extra credit. LOL  It looks like if he stays in school he could move on to Carpentry courses next year.  That isn't really an interest for him, but it's better than the alternatives.