LucyStoner Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Carri Williams received 36 years, 11 months. Larry Williams got 27 years because he wasn't home when she died. http://www.king5.com/news/local/Hana-williams-death-parents-sentencing-229691241.html I don't have a lot to say but I am glad they received serious sentences for such a serious set of crimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrissiK Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 What a horrible case. I'm glad they got the maximum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celticmom Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 What a horrible case. I'm glad they got the maximum. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 :( That is so sad. I am glad they received the max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowing Brook Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 "Defense lawyers told jurors that questionable parenting practices didn't necessarily amount to a crime." If what the parents did does not amount to a crime. I don't know what does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Good. That was not just questionable parenting practices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 "Defense lawyers told jurors that questionable parenting practices didn't necessarily amount to a crime." It's not like the defense attorneys had a lot they could say. Everyone is entitled to a defense, but not everyone necessarily has a plausible one. The judge was harsher with the father than the prosecution sought. I think the judge made the right decision. Members of the Seattle Ethiopian community sat in the courtroom day in and day out (this happened about an hour north of Seattle). Hana's pictures have been pinned up in several Ethiopian owned businesses I go to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowing Brook Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 It's not like the defense attorneys had a lot they could say. Everyone is entitled to a defense, but not everyone necessarily has a plausible one. The judge was harsher with the father than the prosecution sought. I think the judge made the right decision. Members of the Seattle Ethiopian community sat in the courtroom day in and day out (this happened about an hour north of Seattle). Hana's pictures have been pinned up in several Ethiopian owned businesses I go to. Yeah I know that the defense attorney had to say something. I just hate to hear child abuse defended. Even though I understand he had to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Refresh my memory. Was this a set of "Pearl' parents? I know we discussed a set of adoptive parents who died from exposure and malnutrition coupled with beatings who were Pearl followers, but I can't remember if this is that case or not. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 It is one of those cases. Sadly, cases is plural. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Refresh my memory. Was this a set of "Pearl' parents? I know we discussed a set of adoptive parents who died from exposure and malnutrition coupled with beatings who were Pearl followers, but I can't remember if this is that case or not. Faith yep. the one thing I wish was that the pearls would be held accountable for their teachings. I'm not discounting the Williams chose to follow them, but I believe the pearl's teachings are evil. I believe if it hadn't been for the pearl's teachings, this girl never would have died. part of me has compassion on these parents who naively and foolishly threw common sense out the window and followed the pearl's teachings. (yet they did, and now they reap the consequences.) there must have been some question in their minds that sending a half-naked child outside in such cold weather was irrational. that hosing down a child with cold water outside when it was cold wasn't sane. that when you can count ribs, the child is too thin. they chose to ignore any warning voice those things were wrong. Along with the very harsh measures they advocate, the pearl's teachings are don't stop for any reason until the child is broken. not only did hana die, an entire family was destroyed. My dream is one day - the pearls will reap what they have sown. Hana had a beautiful smile that was full of sunshine on a cloudy day. (particularly fitting in the PacNW.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoseInABook Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Good. They deserve it. That child should never have experienced what she went through. Breaks my heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 What I find especially perverse is that had Hana been 16, there is a gap in the law in WA state and likely they couldn't have been convicted on a homicide charge because "homicide by abuse" only applies to kids under 16. There is a state legislator wanting to change that and tighten up some other laws about child abuse and adoption procedures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajfries Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 It's rather irrelevant, but I wonder....did they use the same "tactics" with their biological children?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 The Pearls are horrible and there is no defense for them but....You knew that was coming right?? These people chose to follow them. I don't care what the excuse is. I don't care if their moms and dads beat hem or what book they read THEY MADE THIS CHOICE!!!!! These people went through adoptions they had home studies and background checks, these were not stupid ignorant people. They knew what they were doing and they have no one to blame but heir nasty selves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I am mildly content with the parents receiving the maximum, but I would have been happy for them to have received a 100 years or so. Will they be tried for the abuse of the other children, or did that get wrapped into this trial? If there were multiple children who also suffered abuse, one would think the sentences would have been longer. I have no use for the Pearls, none...smacking babies for crying, hitting babies and toddlers with plumbing line, starving children....the list of "recommendations" nauseates me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unfrumpable. Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I think from now on when I see that book in a thrift store, I am going to buy it just to throw it away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I think from now on when I see that book in a thrift store, I am going to buy it just to throw it away. I have purchased some and burned them. I've never been a fan of book burning, but I didn't want any of our trash collectors to get curious and decide to take it home and read it. It's the only book I've ever thought should go up in flames. I guess I have fairly intense feelings about it. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Remember that hiver that described seeing the Pearls talk in person? Ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 It says they we also convicted of assault on their adopted son, and that he and the 6 biological children were placed in foster care or with relatives. Yeah, I wonder which of them the relatives wouldn't take... From the sound of it, the father had just as much hand in it, so the longer sentence is reasonable. That 16yo. limit on homicide by abuse is stupid. What about children or others kept prisoner, or disabled, who may be near adulthood or of age (or elderly) and dependent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 It's rather irrelevant, but I wonder....did they use the same "tactics" with their biological children?? Apparently they used physical punishments with their 6 biological children but nothing as dramatic as what was done to the two adopted from Ethiopia. The boy they adopted survived and testified. Some of their older biological children received immunity for their testimony IIRC- they had their older teens involved in the abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted October 30, 2013 Author Share Posted October 30, 2013 The Pearls are horrible and there is no defense for them but....You knew that was coming right?? These people chose to follow them. I don't care what the excuse is. I don't care if their moms and dads beat hem or what book they read THEY MADE THIS CHOICE!!!!! These people went through adoptions they had home studies and background checks, these were not stupid ignorant people. They knew what they were doing and they have no one to blame but heir nasty selves. I'm confused. Is anyone here saying anything that implies reading the Pearl's crappy books mitigates this couple's crimes? I don't think that is the case at all. Of course they are culpable for their crimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammi K Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Soggy sandwiches and frozen vegetables, why? What is the point? Surely that can't think that would alter the children's behavior. How could it be anything other than a show of strength? I'm bigger so I get to be the bully. Such a beautiful child. She must have had such high hope for a new life in a new country and all she experienced is horror. I'm not a big fan of people sometimes. :confused1: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Absolutely, NO ONE is copping to reduced culpability. There are just those of us that believe the book is sickening as well as the people who wrote it. It's hard for me to imagine that the sentences were not longer since the abuse against the other child was added into the case. I figure 50 -100 for the death, and another 15 for torturing the other child. Essentially, lock them up, throw away the key. It's probably for the best that I did not become a lawyer and then a judge. I would be known as "That hangin' judge"! Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msjones Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I'm glad to see the maximum sentences, but I am very sorry for their living children. To have both parents in prison for killing a sibling...I can't imagine what they're going through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 The pearls can write and speak any opinion they want. That's the price of freedom for all. I think their practices and advice are awful and horrid, but they have been investigated multiple times and found to not be abusive to the children in their care. I don't get it, but that my opinion and I can write it for the same reason they can. Sometimes free will sucks. That 16yo. limit on homicide by abuse is stupid. What about children or others kept prisoner, or disabled, who may be near adulthood or of age (or elderly) and dependent? That's not quite what the law says. At 16, they are given pseudo adult status. Iow, it's still a crime and they would still be convicted, but not as child abuse. It's not legal to treat anyone of any age the way they were treating those kids, whether they are related or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I have purchased some and burned them. I've never been a fan of book burning, . It's the only book I've ever thought should go up in flames. I guess I have fairly intense feelings about it. Faith that was my first thought. burn the things. That 16yo. limit on homicide by abuse is stupid. What about children or others kept prisoner, or disabled, who may be near adulthood or of age (or elderly) and dependent? they can still bring a homicide charge for over 16 - just a different specific kind. Apparently they used physical punishments with their 6 biological children but nothing as dramatic as what was done to the two adopted from Ethiopia. The boy they adopted survived and testified. Some of their older biological children received immunity for their testimony IIRC- they had their older teens involved in the abuse. that's one more thing about the pearls that is sickening - their "method" teaches older children to be abusive too. these people are so evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted October 30, 2013 Author Share Posted October 30, 2013 Mrs. Williams' sentence is only as high as it is because of the homicide by abuse conviction. The jury convicted them both of manslaughter but only her of homicide by abuse, which were the top charges brought. The judge handed out the maximums, this isn't a case of judicial leniency. It's perverse to me that child abuse deaths would carry a lighter max than if they had killed an unrelated adult, but that is, so far, the law here. His trial strategy was to deny he knew anything and blame it all on his wife. So much for that super hardcore Pearl ethos of him being in charge of the family and so much for his marriage vows. I hate lying liars like that. Even if we accept that she was the main abuser, he had to have known and he had to have done nothing. Sorry excuse for a man. Not that she is any better. It's times like this I wish I believed in hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted October 30, 2013 Author Share Posted October 30, 2013 I'm glad to see the maximum sentences, but I am very sorry for their living children. To have both parents in prison for killing a sibling...I can't imagine what they're going through. True. Though with parents like that who needs enemies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msjones Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 True. Though with parents like that who needs enemies? True. But, everybody needs parents. And they witnessed all the abuse for years and years. I just hope the surviving children are living with family members who welcomed them and love them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBeth Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I wonder if they were/will be also charged with "contributing to the delinquency of a minor" or something like that for having their other kids participate in the abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I wonder if they were/will be also charged with "contributing to the delinquency of a minor" or something like that for having their other kids participate in the abuse. There should be some way to charge them with something. This was abusive to the children who were forced to participate and creates life long emotional and mental damage/ PTSD from witnessing or participating. I worked for two years in respite care back when Waley's Children's Center in Flint was still open. I did one three day weekend per month, and one week stints a three times per year for foster parents specially trained to take in extremely psychotic children and teens. These weekends and one week vacations without their fosters was their only chance at a bit of sanity and rest for these families. It wasn't enough, but it was something. I worked with more than one teen who had been forced to participate in the torture of a younger sibling. The horror of what went on their minds due to that participation is not appropriate to describe here. Suffice it to say, they were suicidal, predatory, and at times homicidal when they entered the system. They had ZERO appropriate coping skills because all they've ever witnessed is a parent or parents who are willing to torture another person into submission to get the desired behavior. They don't know anything different, and have to be taught emotional coping mechanisms that most children learn when they are very little if they have lived in a decent home. As a general rule, this is not the province of untrained people. So my assumption is that since some are with relatives, but others are in foster care is that they were evaluated and those with mental health diagnoses were placed with trained families who would have therapeutic options within the system and the others are being given a chance to see if they can make it in a normal family. From my perspective, there should be abuse charges leveled at the parents on behalf of every single child. There doesn't have to be physical abuse for there to be extraordinary damage. I'd give them 15 - 25 years for every child in that house. Again, I'd be "the hanging judge". There isn't a hole deep enough, in my opinion, that they can throw them into but a gulag where they mine granite with a teaspoon on nothing more than bread and water would be a start! This is another good reason for me to remain a civilian in terms of the justice system. I could actually be a little evil with my sentencing in cases like these. I have this uncivilized spot in my heart where I can't seem to forgive people who torture children, and what this girl went through was torture for certain. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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