Why do I hate FLL?

[Aspasia]

Or maybe a better question (from my perspective) would be, why do so many people love it?

 

I just cannot convince myself that my 6yo needs to repeat the definition of a noun every single day for weeks. I describe something to her and I see it not registering as important at all. I feel like I'm teaching a wall...a wall that repeats what I want it to repeat, but a wall nonetheless. 

 

I've been looking at PLL instead, and I like that one better. It seems a little more directly useful. I understand it is more for 2nd grade. Do you think a first grader with strong reading skills and good handwriting stamina could handle it, or should I just toss "Language Lessons" of all stripes until next year (at least)?

 

(I will say that we do enjoy and benefit from the memorization selections, picture studies, and narrations. I just hate the actual grammar lessons.)

[AmandaVT]

I think my kid will roll up FLL and hit me over the head with it if I go over the definition of a noun again with him one more time. I'm listening in on this thread!

[EKS]

Try MCT.  You'll probably find it refreshing.

[PeacefulChaos]

You know, FLL 1 and 2 didn't bother me.  Because at least we were repeating simple things over and over and it didn't take very long, kwim?

When we hit FLL 3, it was 10x more that we were repeating over and over, and diagramming over and over... just way too much for us.  So we liked it fine for 1 and 2, but won't be using it again past then.  

I think a lot of people feel the way you do.  You are not alone!!  :D

[My3girls]

Do 1st graders really need grammar at all?  I started dd7 & 8 in second grade with FLL2 and use it as a guide.  It's working well.  I leave out the poetry cause we are doing that through AO, copy work because we are doing that in WWE2 already and with AO, and I am sure there will be other things that I gloss over and skip.  It's great as a guide so far, though.  I don't plan on hitting grammar hard until the 6th grade.  I think they just need a basic understanding of sentence structure, how to address an envelope, and some basic capitalization rules.  If you don't like, it change it up.  I probably wouldn't worry over it until next year at all really.  Just teach her .?! and to capitalize names and the beginning of sentences this year, and you're good... in my oh so humble opinion. :)

[SFM]

I didn't do Grammar in 1st but I just don't have my child repeat it as many times as listed.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Yeah, it's not for me or my son either!  I had my kids repeat the definitions of a noun until they memorized it.  We then underlined the nouns in our copywork for a while.  Then we worked on verbs.  Once they had the definition, we started underlining those as well.  At that point, I realized we may as well be diagramming sentences, so we just switched to diagramming and dropped anything else, and have been happy ever since.  :-) 

[Haiku]

Because it's tedious and boring?

[Haiku]

Btw, having been there twice, I suggest just starting FLL3 in 3rd grade. You don't need anything before that; FLL3 starts at the beginning and doesn't make you want to poke your eyes out.

[musicmommy]

I think it really depends on the kid.  For my almost 10 year old, he needs that repetition in order for something to really get into his brain.  We switched to FLL this year for him and it's the first time a grammar program is sticking for him and he's not dreading it.  

[Chrysalis Academy]

Don't feel bad, FLL made me want to poke my eye out with a fork.  

 

We switched to MCT and are much happier.

[FairProspects]

I don't know - I keep returning to FLL (at least 1 & 2) because it lays such a great foundation. Seeing where my older son is now with Latin and what grammar he needed to know to get there, I'm reluctant to use anything else because FLL does get kids through more grammar for that age than anything else I've found. Plus it is quick, even if it is repetitive. There are SO many times that having those definitions memorized has come in handy that I'm willing to be the bad guy on this one and make them just get it done.

[Punchie]

I agree that FLL1 is incredibly redundant with the nouns. However, we condensed lessons as needed so it wasn't as tedious  as it could have been. I also didn't do the "repeat 3x" part.

[lifesadream83]

My daughter loved first language lessons 1 and 2 we are now doing 4... she is able to recall from memory quite easily the definitions of all parts of speech and list them... this comes in handy when we are doing other work as well... personally I think college would have been so much easier had my mom made me learn fll in such a fun way versus sending me to CCD and having to memorize the act of contrition... just saying

[Stellalarella]

I like FLL 1/2 because it reminds me to do the things that are good to do with little ones--learn the months, learn your address, learn your relative's full names, write letters, etc.  

 

I like that FLL reminds me to work on poems with the kids.  We have all enjoyed the poem memorization very much.  

 

As far as the grammar definitions?  I takes 5 seconds to say, "A noun is the name of a person, place, thing or idea."  I just timed it.  :)

 

My 3rd and 4th grader are enjoying the sentence diagramming.  It takes mere minutes, there are just a few diagrams, and they find it satisfying to put a word where it goes.  I can't blame them, I like to do it, too.  

 

I think FLL at $10 per year and 5 minutes a day 3 days a week is a good investment.  I don't want to spend big bucks or make a serious time commitment to The Study Of Grammar.  

 

 

 

 

 

[TyraTooters]

We haven't bought it yet but will be soon...for my six year old first grader. I like that it's quick and (mostly) painless. If we wanted to do an activity (like he was used to in public school) to have fun with it our help it sink in we can and not be bogged down with worksheets and such. 

[Dahliarw]

I hated it too. We did all of FLL 1 and didn't like it.  Started FLL 2 and at that point ds was making fun of every lesson and I realized it was not working at all (just too boring). He knows the basics of grammar, so what's the point?  I plan to do Analytical Grammar when he is older.  And with my younger I can teach the basics like nouns, adjective, etc without repeating the same defintion every day for 3 months!

 

(I also didn't like WWE - we use IEW now and love it).

[Dory]

My oldest two love FLL and my youngest likes it alright. They come away really knowing their definitions and over time they learn exactly what the definitions mean as well. They don't have to think about it anymore. We were at a writing workshop and the teacher asked the kids what a verb was. I knew other kids there knew what a verb was, but being put on the spot the only thing they could come out with is that a verb does something. My girly, without even thinking about it, said the whole definition of a verb. The teacher asked her for some examples and she was able to pull some out for each form of a verb. Having something like that memorized gives them hooks for the rest of the information. It makes remembering everything else that much easier. Some kids find it annoying, but I love using memorization for a lot of other things, so using it in grammar makes sense to me.

[Heatherwith4]

I tweak it to fit our needs. I am not going to make DC repeat things as often as the book suggests. We don't memorize all the poems. We make sure to do the fun activities. It works for us.

[mommyto4]

I love it more and more because it lays such a great foundation. I have used all four levels, a few more than once. It is quick and easy to teach. We skip sections if we know it already.

[DianeW88]

We loved it, and I am REALLY seeing the benefits now that my son is in seventh grade.  Knowing all the definitions has made it so much easier for him in writing essays, and particularly in studying Latin and other foreign languages.  It is well worth the time you will spend doing all that memorization in first or second grade for the payoff you will get down the road!

[LiveforLaughter]

I can't stand it either. There are plenty of other options that have worked a lot better for us.

[boscopup]

I have a love/hate relationship with it. I love that's it's quick and easy to do. Lessons at that level never took us more than 5 minutes, and sometimes we combined lessons for my oldest and were still done in 5 minutes. :tongue_smilie: Both kids enjoyed it, though I NEVER had them repeat things 3 times. Once per lesson was plenty. My kids all know what a noun is, even the 4 year old who was casually listening in while I worked with the first grader. :D

 

That said, I've dropped it for my 1st grader. I've cut him down to the very basics - math, reading, and phonics, plus some tag-along fun content subjects - history, science. School is short and efficient for him. He doesn't need a gazillion subjects. He's still learning to read. My oldest, otoh, was reading very well in 1st grade and really could have probably started FLL3 at that point. I do wish I'd just started with level 3 and skipped 1 and 2 for him. He didn't need them.

 

I'm in the process of changing up grammar for my oldest, emphasizing writing more and doing grammar in context of his writing. He also does Latin, which reinforces the grammar he already knows (I am glad I had taken him through 3rd grade level grammar before starting Latin - knowing ahead of time what direct objects and indirect objects were, plus several other parts of speech, was very helpful).

 

I'll likely have my middle son do MCT grammar once he's reading well and ready to delve deep into grammar and writing. That may be 2nd or 3rd grade... probably 3rd.

[Walking-Iris]

This is my first time using it. I'm using the older FLL1/2 combo book with my ds. I'll likely use it again with my daughter---when she's 4! I can see it being very helpful for a much younger child. 

 

I've been combining several lessons into one. I just sort of skim over them and just talk to my ds about it. He got the common noun/proper noun idea after one lesson. So that's a lot of lessons I have to skip which makes me doubt the purchase. He likes the story/narrations, but that's something we also do in WWE1 and any JotItDown/Caldecott lessons we do. He likes copywork, again using FLL for that is redundant in light of the other things we use. 

 

He hasn't shown any interest in poetry memorization, although he does like to listen to poetry and to use a line as copywork. I like that it's quick and ridiculously easy to do and tweak to fit my needs, I just don't think it's interesting enough for some kids (or their parents). I also just cringe at any overly scripted product. I did follow that script the first two lessons and my ds looked at me like I had lost my mind. Also it would be insanely slow and boring to do the recommended 3 days a week. We do some sort of FLL at insane accelerated speed nearly every day so I feel that we'll be done with the whole book soon after the New Year.

 

I've been thinking about just switching to something like Evan Moor's Daily Language Review for 1st /2nd grade (or maybe the 2nd grade Easy Grammar) and just dropping the FLL down to preschool/K level materials rather than 1st/2nd. 

 

I highly doubt I'll ever use another FLL level.

 

 

[Mommy22alyns]

I condensed 1/2 into one year and skipped most of the repetition.  It was too much for Rebecca and it just annoyed her.  We made it partway through 3 before I realized that I was dreading grammar.  I tried SL LA for a little and then ended up  with R&S.  I know R&S gets a bad rap for being no-frills and boring, but I like it way more than FLL.

 

Please don't kick me off the board, SWB!

 

 

[Soror]

I used FLL1 w/ ds in 1st, my favorite parts were actually not the grammar which I think were fairly useless, especially for someone who doesn't do well w/ rote memorization. I'm not doing it w/ dd at all as she is just learning to read, in hindsight I should have done the same w/ ds. I plan on waiting until she is reading better and introducing it in the context of her writing/copywork. I think that the small number of things FLL cover could be covered much better and efficiently if used at an appropriate time in the the appropriate context.

[Walking-Iris]

I used FLL1 w/ ds in 1st, my favorite parts were actually not the grammar which I think were fairly useless, especially for someone who doesn't do well w/ rote memorization. I'm not doing it w/ dd at all as she is just learning to read, in hindsight I should have done the same w/ ds. I plan on waiting until she is reading better and introducing it in the context of her writing/copywork. I think that the small number of things FLL cover could be covered much better and efficiently if used at an appropriate time in the the appropriate context.

 

Yep---it does have a random feel to it at times.

[GPMommy]

For those that have found better options that are not as boring as FLL, what are they?

[Haiku]

I highly doubt I'll ever use another FLL level.

 

I'll just put it out there that I have looked at a LOT (a lot a lot!) of grammar curricula, and imo FLL3 and 4 are the best grammar education out there for kids that age. That doesn't mean that they work for every kid (they were too difficult for my ds at that age, but I may go back to them for him later), but the material covered and the way it is presented are excellent for kids in the 3rd-6th grade range. If you have only used FLL1/2, don't base your opinion of 3 and 4 on that. They are very different.

[Chrysalis Academy]

For those that have found better options that are not as boring as FLL, what are they?

 

MCT language arts is a nice alternative, if you are more of a story-based, curl up on the couch and read and discover together type of outfit.

 

http://www.rfwp.com/pages/michael-clay-thompson/

[GPMommy]

MCT language arts is a nice alternative, if you are more of a story-based, curl up on the couch and read and discover together type of outfit.

 

http://www.rfwp.com/pages/michael-clay-thompson/

Thanks for the suggestion. I've heard it mentioned, but never looked into it. It sounds like something my kids may really enjoy.

[Carrie12345]

My dds did 1/2 (combined book) and they didn't murder me in my sleep. The content was really great, imo, and the kids rolled with it. There are more exciting things out there, and many of them have content that's almost as good (imo) so it's just as well for kids who would hate FLL's implimentation.

 

I've decided to start my younger kids with MCT, but will likely condense FLL in between the MCT levels.

[aprilleigh]

I was ready to poke my own eye out over the repetition in FLL1, but I stuck with it because DS liked it and the repetition didn't phase him. I think part of that is it was a quick lesson and he could count on it being easy. We used it as a break after doing history, which he hated at first. That got better when I bought the audio version so he could listen to the sections as many times as he wanted before I asked him to talk to me about it. Suddenly the history was shiny and new, but he still likes FLL so we stick with it. I'll be glad to move on after FLL4.

[mom2bee]

Well, I hated it because it was soooo boring and repetitive. It was hard not to roll my eyes and stick out my tongue when we used it.

[Walking-Iris]

I'll just put it out there that I have looked at a LOT (a lot a lot!) of grammar curricula, and imo FLL3 and 4 are the best grammar education out there for kids that age. That doesn't mean that they work for every kid (they were too difficult for my ds at that age, but I may go back to them for him later), but the material covered and the way it is presented are excellent for kids in the 3rd-6th grade range. If you have only used FLL1/2, don't base your opinion of 3 and 4 on that. They are very different.

 

I'll keep that in mind. 

[ladydusk]

Halfway through FLL1 the first time I started to question using it. A friend told me to trust the process. I'm so glad she did because now that I've gone through it three times, I'm so thankful for every repetition (not 3x every lesson, though). My just turned 9yo is into level 4 and finds it incredibly easy. My kids havent struggled with the grammar in Prima Latina (or Latin dor Children A). I diagrammed a sentence for my son during Sunday's sermon and it helped him understand.

 

So, I would say for 5-10 minutes a day, trust the process.