An Etiquette question... When your kids make a mess

[Ellie]

I got the impression that it rotated among the different family's homes so it was at OP's only monthly.  Could be completely wrong on that.

 

 

Ah. You could be right. Still not sure it would be worth it to me, lol.

[forty-two]

Honestly, I think bolt's point is this:

 

If you, the host, *want* to bless parents of young children - not that you are *obligated* to bless the parents of young children, but if you *want* to - it is a great blessing to relieve them of as much of the difficulties attendant to young children as you are able to do.  Not that parents of young children are right in *expecting* that behavior - because they certainly aren't - but it is something that many enjoy very greatly when it is offered.  *And* it is a form of hospitality that is rarely offered, so it is appreciated all the more when it is found.

 

And if you, the host, are not able to offer that sort of hospitality, then *don't blame your young parent guests for it* (but don't blame yourself, either - you give what you can give).  Rather, either explicitly say what you are offering and let them decide if it is worthwhile to come, or just don't invite young parents. 

 

The problem bolt was talking about was when people invite young parents and their children under the guise of blessing them, only the hosts for whatever reason did not offer the sort of hospitality that was a blessing *AND* the hosts *blame* their guests for being a burden. 

 

It's just bad etiquette to blame your guests for your hosting issues, period, which is *my* main point.  (And it is equally bad etiquette to blame your host for your guest issues.)

[Cindy in FL.]

When we hosted Bible study at our house, I always "lurked" at the back of the room so that I could keep an ear/eye out for any issues with the children. I still was able to participate in the group, albeit not as undistractedly as the others. I didn't do that because it was expected of me, but because I was hosting it in large part as a ministry to the adults and children. Any time there was an issue that I couldn't readily deal with I would let the parent know (I don't recall that ever happening).

 

I think that the format for these types of gatherings can vary widely and the participants just need to be aware of the expectations so they can make an informed decision about their participation.

[Cera]

I always make my kids clean up (and when they were younger I got down on the floor and helped).  I also never host group events anymore because of the messes that were being left at my house.  

 

In your situation I would choose a different room for the under seven crowd to play in and close off the bedroom completely.  I would put a few toys in the newly designated play area and then cut the bible study 5 minutes short for a group clean up period.  

[Paige]

I think there are probably too many kids who are too young to be left unsupervised. I would think it would be a good idea to get a sitter or expect disaster.

 

If you won't get a sitter, then the disaster should be expected every time. It's too much to expect a gaggle of littles left alone to not make a disaster. Group behavior is very different than family behavior. I would either expect to clean it up myself or I would cut the grown up time a little short, and tell the kids, "Now it's time to clean up before we go!" and I'd start to pick up and encourage the kids to do so as well. I'm not sure if the culture where you are at would make that uncomfortable, but that's what usually happens here. Perhaps the other grown ups are not sure if you want them to help and are waiting to be asked. I've had several moms tell us at the end of a playdate to just leave it because they like to put things back in a certain way. I would not expect kids 7 and under to clean up without being prompted- especially if most are well under 7.

[vonfirmath]

My absolute favorite bible studies are those that were held at the church at a time when childcare was provided (we paid per session as if we would be there every week.) but we took the kids with us when we went. They got to spend time with their friends in an environment that was controlled and supervised. And we got to actually spend time in study where we didn't have to worry.

 

I've taken DS to bible studies in a house. He was the only kid his age (one group had much older kids but I didn't want to presume on them), so I kept him close by and took toys with me and was able to monitor his behavior. But it was tiring and hard and each time, we were eventually asked not to bring him in one or another kind fashion (that wasn't the words said. But it was the understanding I took from it) and ended up leaving the group.

 

Now that I have two I have no desire to go to any bible study that involves me taking my kids without separate childcare.  Maybe when they are older. We do women's and men's bible studies where the other parent is home. And Sunday School on Sunday mornings (though I think it has an official other name, maybe Biblical communities?)

 

I'm fine with family fellowship times because I can let my kids run and play and monitor what is going on without being disruptive to the study.

[forty-two]

I think that the format for these types of gatherings can vary widely and the participants just need to be aware of the expectations so they can make an informed decision about their participation.

 

Yes, this.

 

And I would add, if you realize after starting that there is an expectation mismatch you hadn't known would be an issue, you don't need to blame yourself for it, but don't blame your guests either.  (And likewise, guests shouldn't blame their hosts.)  Just solve the problem now that you know about it.

[SKL]

I think we might all be thinking the same thing but saying it in different ways.

 

I do agree that it's up to the host to organize things so that a Bible study is an actual Bible study.  She had some things she could do better and she'd received advice on that.  It is quite possible that if she makes a few simple changes (such as leaving only a few non-messy toys in the kids' play area, or having an older kid help out) then that will be enough, without having to ask parents to help out with anything.

 

On the other hand if my kid is being a nuisance and I have reason to know it, I am not being a good guest if I turn a blind eye and do nothing about it.

 

As has been previously mentioned, this is not a one-time thing.  I have guests over every Christmas and their kids (also under 7, as are mine) are free to get into anything they want in my kids' vast play area.  Legos, train tracks, puzzles, craft supplies, you name it.  I want them to have a great time for those two days and I know I'll be cleaning up and I won't resent it at all, because they have done exactly what I invited them to do.  I would not ask their parents to clean up because the visit is short enough as it is, I'd rather enjoy their adult company, and they wouldn't know where to put anything anyway.  Once a year is a lot different from once a month.  And also, when my friends come over, they are doing me a favor IMO, because it's all about enjoying their company.  If I'm hosting a Bible study, that's more me doing others a favor.

 

And also - even if I had a social guest come over, if I caught the kid doing something obnoxious such as dumping out stuff just because, screaming and throwing, etc., I would gently ask the parent to guide the child (in the unlikely event the parent needed asking).  That's just not acceptable child behavior anywhere, anytime.  I would ignore it once but not twice.  Even my paid nanny would ask me to intervene if my kid didn't respond to Nanny's gentle discipline.  The buck stops here.

[forty-two]

I think we might all be thinking the same thing but saying it in different ways.

<snip>

If I'm hosting a Bible study, that's more me doing others a favor.

Agree there is probably a lot of similarity. 

 

But wrt to you hosting do others a favor (and the implied guests ought to expect to do *more*, not *less* to make the event a success than when it's a matter of the guests doing you a favor): well, from a hosting perspective, doesn't that mean you want to concentrate all the more on offering them what most blesses them?  Since it's a gift you are primarily giving them, not a gift of mutual enjoyment, I'd think as host I'd sacrifice *my* wants all the more in that scenario.  There's not a lot of fun in a "gift" that comes with more strings than an outright fair trade.

 

ETA:  I mean, yeah, from a guest perspective I'd be very sensible to the gift the host is offering me and do my best to show my gratitude in deeds as well as words.  But from the host perspective I feel I need to be focused on what *I* am offering *them*, not how they are should properly receive it - that's the guest's lookout, not the host's.

 

Also, I'm not sure it's ever the best attitude to look at things we are hosting as a favor we are doing to our guests :think.  Even hosting a BIble study seems like the host should act as if the guests are doing *her* a favor by attending, just as the guests always act as if the *host* did them a favor by inviting them.  IDK, it would really put me off for my host to feel like they were doing me a favor by inviting me - it would feel like accepting charity.

[SKL]

Agree there is probably a lot of similarity. 

 

But wrt to you hosting do others a favor (and the implied guests ought to expect to do *more*, not *less* to make the event a success than when it's a matter of the guests doing you a favor): well, from a hosting perspective, doesn't that mean you want to concentrate all the more on offering them what most blesses them?  Since it's a gift you are primarily giving them, not a gift of mutual enjoyment, I'd think as host I'd sacrifice *my* wants all the more in that scenario.  There's not a lot of fun in a "gift" that comes with more strings than an outright fair trade.

 

I don't expect a person to be God-like just because it's a Bible study she's hosting.

 

A working mom with several kids is a saint IMO for even opening her house to adults for a Bible study.

 

Just because she says you can bring your kids doesn't mean your kids don't have to meet basic standards of behavior.  And it doesn't mean they aren't your kids for that time period.  I really don't get where that comes from.

 

She provided a roomful of toys for the kids to play with, and she cleaned it up for a half hour afterwards.  So far no guests are inconvenienced or embarrassed.  The cleanup was too much for her on top of everything else, and she doesn't want it to happen again because resentment will be the outcome.  All quite reasonable and human reactions in my opinion.  Not everyone believes that one must be a martyr in everything one does for their faith.

[Paige]

I don't think parents with young children can participate in a Bible Study and watch their children at the same time- especially if there are lots of them. Either we can have a playdate and social hour and I can keep up with my kids and intervene as needed, or we can have a Bible Study and someone else (or nobody) is watching my kids. As the OP described the situation, with parents expected to participate in the Bible Study and watch their kids, I would decline. It's just too much stress and I wouldn't get anything out of the Bible Study while being distracted by kids and I would not have fun because there's no casual socializing.

[SKL]

So if you received an invite to a Bible study in someone's house where whole families were welcome, you would really *assume* that the host had someone set up to watch your kid so you could ignore him?

 

At the very least I would ask the host what the arrangement was for minding the little ones, and if it wasn't to my liking, I'd either decline (stating my reason) or offer a better alternative.

 

Apparently in the OP's experience, kids of that age should be able to play in a room for that period of time without being a nuisance.  If your experience with your child is different, it seems it's on you to find a solution.

[forty-two]

 

She provided a roomful of toys for the kids to play with, and she cleaned it up for a half hour afterwards.  So far no guests are inconvenienced or embarrassed.  The cleanup was too much for her on top of everything else, and she doesn't want it to happen again because resentment will be the outcome.  All quite reasonable and human reactions in my opinion.  Not everyone believes that one must be a martyr in everything one does for their faith.

 

I don't blame her for wanting a change.  But just as I don't blame her for wanting a change, I *also* don't blame the other parents for not being able to read her mind.  She *chose* to sit silently by as things happened that she didn't like, and now she is *choosing* to speak up.  Both are acceptable choices, and I don't fault her for either.  But choices have consequences, and one of the consequences of choosing to not speak up is that things don't change.  It's not the fault of the other parents for not changing a situation they didn't know she wanted changed.

 

I'm just tired of actually *talking* to people about problems you are having with them being treated as some horrible last resort that they "force" you to, instead of being treated as a most helpful first response in solving problems and building relationships. 

[fairfarmhand]

In your shoes, I'd put away all but 2-3 categories of items. So you might have the baby dolls (no accessories), stuffed animals and cars out, but everything else should  be put away. You may even have to lock the closet door to make sure that only those toys are played with. I'm appalled by some of the antics of some of the children that have come to my house, digging out things stored in closets and cabinets. 

 

Then call for a general clean-up 10 minutes before time to go.

 

If there is a snack offered at the end, it is a great motivator for kids to clean up. "Go clean up the toys and then you can have some cookies, kids!"

[SKL]

I do agree, and did say, that I really don't blame the guests (adults or kids) for not knowing what she wanted, since she didn't make clear what she wanted.  I also don't blame the guests for the fact that it really wasn't organized for efficient clean-up.  In fact, the only thing I've heard about the guests that sounds bad is that someone let their kid scream and throw toys.

 

My "disagreeing" comments above were to the poster(s) who seem to think that any "bring your kids" invitation is assumed to mean "bring and ignore your kids, we'll handle everything."

[dirty ethel rackham]

I think Heather is doing a wonderful service opening up her home.  I think the expectation that parents can check out of parenting duties because it is a "Bible study" is unrealistic.  I really don't get how hard it is it politely excuse oneself to take care of a child that needed guidance.  Maybe I am accustomed to having the "mom ear" attuned to my children's needs even when I am attending to other tasks.  Yes, those "under 7" years were difficult.  But, I never used that as a reason to not be a respectful guest.  When we visited other people's homes, I would work with my kids to help clean up.  When we hosted, I would encourage kids to clean up together before everyone left (or I might encourage a mid-play-date clean up so it wouldn't get out of control.)  My kids resented having to clean up after "holy terrors" who thought dumping every toy was appropriate.  They were taught that it wasn't OK at home.  (All my kids' toy bins had lids on them so that it was harder to take EVERYTHING out at once.)  It seemed to us that those children who behaved in that way were always the worst as far as their unwillingness to help clean up afterwards. 

 

If parents find it too difficult to keep an eye on their kids, I think rotating teens in there to help supervise and/or paying a couple of teens would be a workable solution.  But, this would only work if there were agreed upon expectations of the behavior allowed vs. what needed to be discouraged. 

[AimeeM]

My boys are the "take everything off the shelf at once" kids, lol.

Yes, I make my older boy (4) help clean it up; what he can't clean up swiftly (if I need to leave), I clean up myself.

[forty-two]

So if you received an invite to a Bible study in someone's house where whole families were welcome, you would really *assume* that the host had someone set up to watch your kid so you could ignore him?

 

At the very least I would ask the host what the arrangement was for minding the little ones, and if it wasn't to my liking, I'd either decline (stating my reason) or offer a better alternative.

 

Apparently in the OP's experience, kids of that age should be able to play in a room for that period of time without being a nuisance.  If your experience with your child is different, it seems it's on you to find a solution.

 

I would find out the specific arrangements, yes.

 

But to your last paragraph, "without being a nuisance" is precisely what bolt is saying.  Children are only welcome at a child-friendly event so long as they aren't a *nuisance*. 

 

Yeah, all young children are nuisances at times, and people have differing ideas as to where the line needs to be drawn.  My line is hurting people, pets, or things.  Nothing the OP said sounded like it crossed that line, and so I would need explicit guidance to know that there was a higher standard at play.  She purposefully declined to offer that guidance, so it's on her that no change was made.  Now she's decided she cares enough to offer some guidance, which is fine, and hopefully it will be well received.  But people aren't mind readers, and you can get mad all you want for their not following your "obvious" standard, but if you don't actually *tell* them, well, they aren't likely to psychically pick up a clue and change.

 

Would you rather stay silent and live with it, or speak up and achieve change?  Both are legit choices, but only one can reasonably be expected to involve a *change*.  Staying silent and having change occur is purely a matter of *luck*.

[SKL]

Maybe we disagree about the "nuisance" part of it.  The OP added some info about throwing and screaming.  I am a very free-range mom, but there is no question a line has been crossed if my kids (at any age) are screaming or throwing indoors.  Especially at someone else's house.  And if that happens, there is no question in my mind who goes in and deals with it:  me.  The mother.  Period.  Personally I think it's fair for the OP to assume other parents don't need to be told this.

[forty-two]

My "disagreeing" comments above were to the poster(s) who seem to think that any "bring your kids" invitation is assumed to mean "bring and ignore your kids, we'll handle everything."

 

IDK, I haven't seen *anyone* in this thread argue for that. 

 

Bolt, who probably came closest, was arguing that "child friendly" events that require *kids* to be held to *adult* standards (or worse yet, better than adult standards), far from being a blessing, are a bait-n-switch burden on parents of young children. 

 

And I agree.  I've been to adult events that welcomed my child (and I was grateful for it, despite the work involved), and that is an entirely different set of expectations (and experience) than going to an actual family-friendly event, where kids are expected to be *kids*.  Yes, it course requires active parenting, but the kind of parenting required to keep kids within *kid* bounds is waaaaaaaaay different than the kind of parenting required to keep kids within *adult* bounds. 

 

(And the way adults often have more tolerance for *adult* out-of bounds behaviour than they do for *kids* being *within* kid bounds, though out of *adult* bounds, is a hypocrisy that is very hard to bear at times.)

 

I'm *not* saying that the OP's event, or standards, are applying adult expectations to kids.  But I agree with bolt that family friendly events should expect kids to stay within *kid* bounds, but not expect them to act as mini-adults and keep within adult bounds.

[freesia]

I don't expect a person to be God-like just because it's a Bible study she's hosting.

 

A working mom with several kids is a saint IMO for even opening her house to adults for a Bible study.

 

Just because she says you can bring your kids doesn't mean your kids don't have to meet basic standards of behavior.  And it doesn't mean they aren't your kids for that time period.  I really don't get where that comes from.

 

She provided a roomful of toys for the kids to play with, and she cleaned it up for a half hour afterwards.  So far no guests are inconvenienced or embarrassed.  The cleanup was too much for her on top of everything else, and she doesn't want it to happen again because resentment will be the outcome.  All quite reasonable and human reactions in my opinion.  Not everyone believes that one must be a martyr in everything one does for their faith.

I agree.

 

Like so much, I think this boils down to definition/ministry purpose. There are ministries that are to bless mother's of young children--mother's day outs, etc. Perhaps, as part of that ministry, workers may choose to do all the work or organize it themselves so that the children clean up before the Moms come back.

 

Other events are ministries that include children. The ministry the OP is providing is the Bible Study and the use of her home. I see it more like a group of people decide to study the Bible together; one couple offers their home. Just because children are included doesn't mean that the ministry is for the children. Asking the children to clean up after themselves is not treating them differently than the adults. The event was not about being entertained and hosted in someone's else. It wasn't for the physical blessing of the parents. It was for spiritual blessing.

 

Trust me, I do understand how hard it is to have small children at church events (and I was once deeply pressured to RUN a mother's with small children group (which included set up for toys, running a circle time, snack, organizing clean up, etc) when I had 3 children UNDER 5. The woman who wanted me to do it was VERY upset that I wouldn't. I know what if feels like to need to be ministered to and not minister to everyone. But this event is not about being taken care of as a young mother. It is a Bible Study put on my other parents in the same stage of life, with the same pressures.

[forty-two]

Personally I think it's fair for the OP to assume other parents don't need to be told this.

 

Well, you know what happens when you assume... ;).

 

Besides, this board has thoroughly disabused me of the notion that I can expect *any* assumption to go without saying :lol: .

[SKL]

I tend to agree that there are times when people seem to expect more of kids than of adults.  I'm not sure what it was about the OP that inspired that comment, though.  Well, maybe it was the "my daughter puts one toy back before she takes out another toy."  Most of us agreed that that was not a typical kid expectation.

 

An evening Bible study is not a kid birthday party.  It's not about giving the kids the time of their life, it's about adults being able to discuss things.  Personally I think providing a room full of toys near the parents was kid-friendly enough.  As for clean-up by guests, that really is the norm in some cultures.  Like not spitting out one's food or stripping naked.  Kid-friendly doesn't mean anything goes IMO.

[LucyStoner]

In sight is not in supervision. Effective supervision of a group of little kids involves engagement and interaction. You need to have 1 rotating volunteer parent or a pair of older teens with the kids to read/play games/remind kids to pick up as they stop playing with a toy etc. If the parents don't want to take a turn then perhaps they would be amenable to chipping in a couple of bucks per meeting to pay some teens.

[LMV]

I am trying really hard to see this POV but I am struggling with it. So if I am at someone else's house for a bible study and my child goes into their child's room, grabs a box of Legos, holds it up in the air and dumps it out all over the floor then proceeds to grab handfuls of them and throw them around the room while screaming... I should just sit back and let it happen because this is "me" time? I shouldn't step away for a moment and get my own child under control?

 

 

If one of our children was doing the above then I (or DH depending on the situation and circumstances) would be excusing myself to collect and remove our child from the situation while they had a chance to calm down and we had a chance to discuss appropriate behavior for playing with others.  We would eventually return to clean up the mess and perhaps have another attempt at playing nicely or we might just leave because I would have accepted that my expectations and their actual ability were disparate. In the event of the latter we would either take a break from family bible study for a period to allow for growth or we would arrange for a babysitter or for one parent to stay home with the child while the remainder of the family attended with the other parent.  Honestly, I don't see any of our children doing this so I would probably also be a bit shocked and probably spend a little time making sure that there wasn't something else going on or they weren't coming down with something etc.

 

We have been a small group host family for our church.  We host a post church brunch at our home once or twice a month (some months we only meet once because of other activities in the church) for five other families.  After the meal we do a bible study or speaker presentation.  Children are welcome to participate in the study if desiring and able.  We also arrange an activity ahead of time for the children to participate (typically some kind of a cooking or craft project, a game, a community give back project, or something similar).  Our older daughters (thirteen and seventeen) supervised this past year but other youth of the church have been involved in the past and will be this fall as our oldest is off to college and will not be home most weekends.  The kids enjoy the activities and there seems to be enough supervision to keep everyone safe and have some modicum of order while still allowing for enjoyment.  Is this something that might work better for your group?  I know your daughter is still quite young but would your older sons be willing to help supervise a pre-planned activity?  Would other youth from the church help them?

 

I would also consider if there is a way to have the kids play or do whatever activity in some common area rather than your daughter's room.  That way you won't have to deal with them getting into things you would rather they stay out of and it offers her the respect of her space/room.  We are blessed to have a large playroom and two separate family rooms along with a lot of land so we never have the kids in our kids rooms when we do this. We usually set them up in the area best suited to the preplanned activity.  Sometimes this is outside. I got the impression from your post that this is an evening activity for you so outside may not be suitable but maybe changing the timing would make things work better as well.  [At least then you aren't dealing with as many overtired kids.]  

 

I hope you manage to find a workable solution for all. Good luck!

[forty-two]

WRT the question of, "what if it were *my* kid dumping out bins of toys at someone else's house?  Should I just ignore it because I'm having "me time"?"

 

Well, what if you get up and go to clean it up, and the hostess says, "Oh don't worry about it :)".  Is there anything wrong with taking the hostess up on her offer and enjoying not having to worry about it?

 

I see so many parents who would insist on upholding their family standards even when they are invited to relax from them while in some one else's home, and while it is those parents' choice to make, I don't think choosing to take the hostess up on her offer is wrong either.  And I don't think it is wrong to *enjoy* it.

 

There are things I wouldn't let my dc do even with the other parent's permission - such as hurt people or pets - but if they didn't mind if my dc caused a bit of damage to a given toy, I would follow their lead and not worry either.  And the OP, by staying silent, gave tacit permission that what was going on was ok by her lights.  Whether or not it *should*, practically speaking silence gives consent.

[LMV]

WRT the question of, "what if it were *my* kid dumping out bins of toys at someone else's house?  Should I just ignore it because I'm having "me time"?"

 

Well, what if you get up and go to clean it up, and the hostess says, "Oh don't worry about it :)".  Is there anything wrong with taking the hostess up on her offer and enjoying not having to worry about it?

 

I see so many parents who would insist on upholding their family standards even when they are invited to relax from them while in some one else's home, and while it is those parents' choice to make, I don't think choosing to take the hostess up on her offer is wrong either.  And I don't think it is wrong to *enjoy* it.

 

I guess the problem that I would have with this is that I would not want my child to behave like this whether we were at home and they were playing with their siblings or whether we were visiting a friend.  I want my children to grow up understanding the value of cooperation and sharing, and the importance of respecting other people and their property.  I've found that this best accomplished by first ensuring that my own behavior and life embraces this and then by guiding, directing, and redirecting my children towards these goals.  In my experience, consistency is very important.  If we set limits without consistency or enforce consequences sporadically it shouldn't surprise us if our children struggle.  

 

*I'm not suggesting that our parenting approach is the best or the only approach so if something else is working well for a family then I'm not offended if you disregard my input.*

[forty-two]

I guess the problem that I would have with this is that I would not want my child to behave like this whether we were at home and they were playing with their siblings or whether we were visiting a friend.  I want my children to grow up understanding the value of cooperation and sharing, and the importance of respecting other people and their property.  I've found that this best accomplished by first ensuring that my own behavior and life embraces this and then by guiding, directing, and redirecting my children towards these goals.  In my experience, consistency is very important.  If we set limits without consistency or enforce consequences sporadically it shouldn't surprise us if our children struggle.  

 

*I'm not suggesting that our parenting approach is the best or the only approach so if something else is working well for a family then I'm not offended if you disregard my input.*

 

I do get why parents choose to uphold their (higher) standards at all times.  But sometimes that seems to turn into a pride thing where those parents (not you :grouphug:) look down on other parents who need or want a break from some of the minor aspects of eternal parenting vigilance.  That even when a break is offered, it makes you a "lesser" parent to take it.

 

IDK, like so many parenting things, the issue of standards and what are deemed "acceptable" reasons and places for relaxing some of them so easily turns in round 5,297 of the mommy wars :sigh.  Which is what I think I'm reacting to, here (whether I should or not).

[SKL]

But in the example of the host saying "don't worry about it" when I go to correct my kid:  in my world, hosts say that out of politeness, not because they really think it is OK for your child to be destructive.  They don't want you to be embarrassed, but that doesn't mean they don't want your child to stop doing something destructive.  At some point this is something people should understand without being told.

[Upward Journey]

I do get why parents choose to uphold their (higher) standards at all times.  But sometimes that seems to turn into a pride thing where those parents (not you :grouphug:) look down on other parents who need or want a break from some of the minor aspects of eternal parenting vigilance.  That even when a break is offered, it makes you a "lesser" parent to take it.

 

IDK, like so many parenting things, the issue of standards and what are deemed "acceptable" reasons and places for relaxing some of them so easily turns in round 5,297 of the mommy wars :sigh.  Which is what I think I'm reacting to, here (whether I should or not).

 

What I'm not understanding is how expecting children to respect others' property is somehow a burden.  Isn't that just teaching them common decency?  I do understand that children will be children, and that sometimes they make bad choices.

 

And also don't understand the attitude that by inviting you into my home with your children, that I am expected to and even tolerate your children acting in an uncouth way, and that if I don't I'm a poor host.

 

This whole thread has me going o_O