I don't get the Miley Cyrus debacle from VMA's.

[Alicia64]

My .02 is that many consider music to be a high art form -- yes, even if it's Brittney doing something semi-erotic, but envelope-pushing -- but Miley was just being gross and mucking up the art form.

 

And I agree. I'm cool with wild performances like Brittney and Madonna. I love Miranda Lambert and some of her kooky songs and music videos, but what Miley did didn't deserve that kind of high level air time.

 

I'd say to her: do the big teddy bear dance/strip tease thing. Just don't do it on the awards shows we want to watch. Maybe do it your bedroom.

 

Alley

[albeto.]

I've been thinking on this and I don't get the support for Miley`s assertive or aggressive sexuality. 

 

 

Personally, I like to support the rejection of conservative, feminine expectations, even when that rejection isn't my own cuppa tea. I have no affection for Miley Cyrus' song and dance (I couldn't listen to the video, I found it so utterly unpleasant), but I have a great admiration for someone publicly thumbing their noses as what society uses, including shame, to maintain unjustified control. One of the ways in which that shame works is, in the opinion of many, in teaching girls to keep from making waves and embrace playing the supporting role. As Chimamamda Ngozi Adiche says, "We teach girls shame; close your legs, cover yourself, we make them feel as though being born female they’re already guilty of something."

 

Don't mistake this for me suggesting that I advocate girls growing up to grind up against great big props in public. Not at all. But Miley Cyrus publicly rejects this idea of owning shame for being aggressive, not covering herself, not keeping her legs closed, in short, not being "lady like" and accepting the supporting role. She harbors no guilt because she's done nothing unjust. Offending one's sense of moral dignity is not injustice, and when that moral code is itself unjust, watching supporters express shock is a bit satisfying, I have to admit.

 

On a personal note, I'm giggling at the short memory some people have while upholding Madonna as some kind of artistic entertainer. It wasn't too long ago her stage prop included hanging herself from a cross on stage, offending and horrifying Christians world wide. What was once shocking and scandalous is now "art." I suspect one day, when Miley Cyrus is a middle aged lady, off doing her own thing, some other young entertainer will shock the public and people will recall the good old days when women only twerked on stage with older men, beating the bums of singers like drums. And I think that's good because that will mean some more of this pseudo Victorian morality garbage will finally be relegated into the annals of history along with the other manipulative, coercive tactics used to maintain a social status that is inherently unjust and oppressive. 

[Moxie]

Personally, I like to support the rejection of conservative, feminine expectations, even when that rejection isn't my own cuppa tea. I have no affection for Miley Cyrus' song and dance (I couldn't listen to the video, I found it so utterly unpleasant), but I have a great admiration for someone publicly thumbing their noses as what society uses, including shame, to maintain unjustified control. One of the ways in which that shame works is, in the opinion of many, in teaching girls to keep from making waves and embrace playing the supporting role. As Chimamamda Ngozi Adiche says, "We teach girls shame; close your legs, cover yourself, we make them feel as though being born female they’re already guilty of something."

 

Don't mistake this for me suggesting that I advocate girls growing up to grind up against great big props in public. Not at all. But Miley Cyrus publicly rejects this idea of owning shame for being aggressive, not covering herself, not keeping her legs closed, in short, not being "lady like" and accepting the supporting role. She harbors no guilt because she's done nothing unjust. Offending one's sense of moral dignity is not injustice, and when that moral code is itself unjust, watching supporters express shock is a bit satisfying, I have to admit.

 

On a personal note, I'm giggling at the short memory some people have while upholding Madonna as some kind of artistic entertainer. It wasn't too long ago her stage prop included hanging herself from a cross on stage, offending and horrifying Christians world wide. What was once shocking and scandalous is now "art." I suspect one day, when Miley Cyrus is a middle aged lady, off doing her own thing, some other young entertainer will shock the public and people will recall the good old days when women only twerked on stage with older men, beating the bums of singers like drums. And I think that's good because that will mean some more of this pseudo Victorian morality garbage will finally be relegated into the annals of history along with the other manipulative, coercive tactics used to maintain a social status that is inherently unjust and oppressive. 

 

I just rolled my eyes so hard, I think I might have injured myself!!

 

Please, it was the VMA awards.  There was no thought given to "what will advance the cause against female oppression".  It was about ratings, YouTube hits and number of tweets generated.

[Mrs Mungo]

Personally, I like to support the rejection of conservative, feminine expectations, even when that rejection isn't my own cuppa tea. I have no affection for Miley Cyrus' song and dance (I couldn't listen to the video, I found it so utterly unpleasant), but I have a great admiration for someone publicly thumbing their noses as what society uses, including shame, to maintain unjustified control. One of the ways in which that shame works is, in the opinion of many, in teaching girls to keep from making waves and embrace playing the supporting role. As Chimamamda Ngozi Adiche says, "We teach girls shame; close your legs, cover yourself, we make them feel as though being born female they’re already guilty of something."

 

Don't mistake this for me suggesting that I advocate girls growing up to grind up against great big props in public. Not at all. But Miley Cyrus publicly rejects this idea of owning shame for being aggressive, not covering herself, not keeping her legs closed, in short, not being "lady like" and accepting the supporting role. She harbors no guilt because she's done nothing unjust. Offending one's sense of moral dignity is not injustice, and when that moral code is itself unjust, watching supporters express shock is a bit satisfying, I have to admit.

 

On a personal note, I'm giggling at the short memory some people have while upholding Madonna as some kind of artistic entertainer. It wasn't too long ago her stage prop included hanging herself from a cross on stage, offending and horrifying Christians world wide. What was once shocking and scandalous is now "art." I suspect one day, when Miley Cyrus is a middle aged lady, off doing her own thing, some other young entertainer will shock the public and people will recall the good old days when women only twerked on stage with older men, beating the bums of singers like drums. And I think that's good because that will mean some more of this pseudo Victorian morality garbage will finally be relegated into the annals of history along with the other manipulative, coercive tactics used to maintain a social status that is inherently unjust and oppressive. 

 

What? 

 

Lady like? No. That is not the problem. You are really missing the boat on this one, IMO. She is debasing and objectifying herself. That's not a positive thing for women. Have you watched the Blurred Lines video? Women behaving in that manner doesn't promote equality for women. It doesn't promote anything good for anyone. How does treating other people like props (whether it is spanking a woman of color only there for that purpose or walking around naked in a video with fully clothed older men) promote equality or positive views of sexuality? 

 

Plenty of atheistic feminists on my facebook feed didn't like the performance. Your grudge against anything that looks like your perceived notion of "religious values" clearly colors how you respond to issues.

[Joules]

The lyrics of the song bug me, but I can't help but like this version:

Totally OT, but if you like that video, you should watch Jimmy Fallon and The Roots with Mariah Carey:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWEfszb9h8Q

 

It makes us smile every time :-)

 

 

 

On topic, I don't keep up with the the modern scene much, but I thought Miley's performance was just sad. She was just trying too hard to do something she doesn't seem to be good at. I was really embarrassed for her. But I felt the same way about Brittney Spears terrible performance and I think she's made a reasonable comeback, so there's hope. (Some of the whole performance did at least make sense once I searched out Robin Thicke's music videos. The recent one is at a football stadium with cheerleader/dancers and foam fingers and all. I still don't understand the bears.)

[Word Nerd]

 

On a personal note, I'm giggling at the short memory some people have while upholding Madonna as some kind of artistic entertainer. It wasn't too long ago her stage prop included hanging herself from a cross on stage, offending and horrifying Christians world wide. What was once shocking and scandalous is now "art." 

 

I didn't forget. I found that stunt offensive and don't call it art. That doesn't mean I can't acknowledge that Madonna has legitimate musical talent. And unlike Miley, her career hasn't relied heavily on autotune.

[nmoira]

What? 

 

Lady like? No. That is not the problem. You are really missing the boat on this one, IMO. She is debasing and objectifying herself. That's not a positive thing for women. Have you watched the Blurred Lines video? Women behaving in that manner doesn't promote equality for women. It doesn't promote anything good for anyone. How does treating other people like props (whether it is spanking a woman of color only there for that purpose or walking around naked in a video with fully clothed older men) promote equality or positive views of sexuality? 

 

Plenty of atheistic feminists on my facebook feed didn't like the performance. Your grudge against anything that looks like your perceived notion of "religious values" clearly colors how you respond to issues.

 

After reading some of the more thoughtful critiques of the performance (thanks mommymilkies for providing the link that got me started), I watched the video a few more times (yeah, I know). The first time through I don't think I'd taken my eyes off Miley except during her brief, ummm, interlude with the dancer throwing stuff into the crowd. I missed a lot.

 

It's the simplistic and reductionist view of black women I find most problematic. It's not the cultural appropriation (I'm in the take it, mix it up, and give me something *more* camp there... though Miley clearly didn't give more), but the stereotypes she played on. I'm torn about this as I don't see the visual presentation of black women by many black rap stars to be much better (and let's not even get into the lyrics), but, but, but, Miley is a white woman presenting black women as simplistically sexualized objects, and I can understand the anger directed towards her for this. I hope she retires her grills and moves on to something else.

[Trish]

Personally, I like to support the rejection of conservative, feminine expectations, even when that rejection isn't my own cuppa tea. I have no affection for Miley Cyrus' song and dance (I couldn't listen to the video, I found it so utterly unpleasant), but I have a great admiration for someone publicly thumbing their noses as what society uses, including shame, to maintain unjustified control. One of the ways in which that shame works is, in the opinion of many, in teaching girls to keep from making waves and embrace playing the supporting role. As Chimamamda Ngozi Adiche says, "We teach girls shame; close your legs, cover yourself, we make them feel as though being born female they’re already guilty of something."

 

Don't mistake this for me suggesting that I advocate girls growing up to grind up against great big props in public. Not at all. But Miley Cyrus publicly rejects this idea of owning shame for being aggressive, not covering herself, not keeping her legs closed, in short, not being "lady like" and accepting the supporting role. She harbors no guilt because she's done nothing unjust. Offending one's sense of moral dignity is not injustice, and when that moral code is itself unjust, watching supporters express shock is a bit satisfying, I have to admit.

 

On a personal note, I'm giggling at the short memory some people have while upholding Madonna as some kind of artistic entertainer. It wasn't too long ago her stage prop included hanging herself from a cross on stage, offending and horrifying Christians world wide. What was once shocking and scandalous is now "art." I suspect one day, when Miley Cyrus is a middle aged lady, off doing her own thing, some other young entertainer will shock the public and people will recall the good old days when women only twerked on stage with older men, beating the bums of singers like drums. And I think that's good because that will mean some more of this pseudo Victorian morality garbage will finally be relegated into the annals of history along with the other manipulative, coercive tactics used to maintain a social status that is inherently unjust and oppressive. 

 

I think "you poor thing" about Madonna, too. She doesn't need my pity, but she's got it nonetheless!

 

Well it's nice you can view it as a positive political statement that empowers women. The message was so, er, subtle that a lot of people missed it, And the entertainment value of this particular political message was high, given all the watercooler talk. I'm also picturing all the mother/daughter chats about how this elevates women and helps them overcome society's shaming of their liberated selves. Might as well have the talk with our sons, too. See, women are free of society's shame! Miley has shown us the way.  

 

She should start using her middle initial, and be this generation's Susan B. Anthony.

 

:hat:

[livetoread]

Albeto, I can agree with what you are saying, but then I also think that girls are getting the message that the way to be sexual is to do things publicly that other people think is hot. They might be thumbing their noses at those who don't want them to be sexual, but they still aren't free to figure out what they themselves like. There needs to be a space between asexuality and attention slut where females can figure it out for themselves.

 

Maybe it's my own issues coming out, but I don't think sexual exploration should be a spectator sport. It reminds me of the 14yo straight girls kissing each other and posting the pics on Facebook so all the guys will comment how hot it is. Are they fearlessly exploring their sexuality, or are they doing something sexual for attention? I think usually it's the latter. They might find arousing a bunch of guys on Facebook to be a turn on, but why do they have to do things they normally wouldn't find arousing to get there?

 

If Miley, in the privacy of her home, actually finds spanking other women's rears and bending over and shaking her own rear in front of a guy to be a turn on, then I owe her an apology. But my guess is that she doesn't particularly, and that's what bugs me about it all.

 

It has never changed for females that being sexual in public gets you lots of attention. It's only a small step in the right direction that girls feel freer to act so sexual so publicly, because ultimately it still probably isn't about their own desires - except maybe their desire to be desired.

[WishboneDawn]

Personally, I like to support the rejection of conservative, feminine expectations, even when that rejection isn't my own cuppa tea. I have no affection for Miley Cyrus' song and dance (I couldn't listen to the video, I found it so utterly unpleasant), but I have a great admiration for someone publicly thumbing their noses as what society uses, including shame, to maintain unjustified control. One of the ways in which that shame works is, in the opinion of many, in teaching girls to keep from making waves and embrace playing the supporting role. As Chimamamda Ngozi Adiche says, "We teach girls shame; close your legs, cover yourself, we make them feel as though being born female they’re already guilty of something."

 

Don't mistake this for me suggesting that I advocate girls growing up to grind up against great big props in public. Not at all. But Miley Cyrus publicly rejects this idea of owning shame for being aggressive, not covering herself, not keeping her legs closed, in short, not being "lady like" and accepting the supporting role. She harbors no guilt because she's done nothing unjust. Offending one's sense of moral dignity is not injustice, and when that moral code is itself unjust, watching supporters express shock is a bit satisfying, I have to admit.

 

On a personal note, I'm giggling at the short memory some people have while upholding Madonna as some kind of artistic entertainer. It wasn't too long ago her stage prop included hanging herself from a cross on stage, offending and horrifying Christians world wide. What was once shocking and scandalous is now "art." I suspect one day, when Miley Cyrus is a middle aged lady, off doing her own thing, some other young entertainer will shock the public and people will recall the good old days when women only twerked on stage with older men, beating the bums of singers like drums. And I think that's good because that will mean some more of this pseudo Victorian morality garbage will finally be relegated into the annals of history along with the other manipulative, coercive tactics used to maintain a social status that is inherently unjust and oppressive.

 

How nice for the white women, eh? You get to thumb your nose at Victorian attitudes and not even acknowledge one of the other pieces that's emerging in the discussion about this and made up the rest of the my post that you quoted.

[albeto.]

nI just rolled my eyes so hard, I think I might have injured myself!!

.

Please, it was the VMA awards.  There was no thought given to "what will advance the cause against female oppression".  It was about ratings, YouTube hits and number of tweets generated.

 

Oh please don't misunderstand. I'm not equating this to the feminist's version of MLK Jr.'s "I Have A Dream" speech. I equate this more along the lines of those "uncouth" flappers of the 1920's "demeaning" themselves by having the audacity to come out of the kitchen and demand a [rightful] place in public society for no other sake than to determine for themselves what to do with their time. Just as people mocked them then, and nearly a hundred years later think their "offense" was nothing more than breaking the social shackles of misogyny that they were expected to not only participate in, but internalize shame for rejecting. Well, screw that. Sex isn't dirty, it isn't sacred. It's just sex. Watching people get all hot under the collar because they saw a woman occasionally mock sexual movements in public is cathartic to some of us for the same reason it was watching bigots get all hot under the collar when public schools were segregated. 

[Mrs Mungo]

I didn't forget. I found that stunt offensive and don't call it art. That doesn't mean I can't acknowledge that Madonna has legitimate musical talent. And unlike Miley, her career hasn't relied heavily on autotune.

 

Word Nerd, I'm quoting you here because I missed the Jimmy Fallon video until someone else quoted it. The words in the Jimmy Fallon video are actually MUCH different and much more women-friendly. I wouldn't be ashamed to say I found that version of the song to be a catchy tune.

 

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/robinthicke/blurredlines.html

[Mrs Mungo]

Oh please don't misunderstand. I'm not equating this to the feminist's version of MLK Jr.'s "I Have A Dream" speech. I equate this more along the lines of those "uncouth" flappers of the 1920's "demeaning" themselves by having the audacity to come out of the kitchen and demand a [rightful] place in public society for no other sake than to determine for themselves what to do with their time. Just as people mocked them then, and nearly a hundred years later think their "offense" was nothing more than breaking the social shackles of misogyny that they were expected to not only participate in, but internalize shame for rejecting. Well, screw that. Sex isn't dirty, it isn't sacred. It's just sex. Watching people get all hot under the collar because they saw a woman occasionally mock sexual movements in public is cathartic to some of us for the same reason it was watching bigots get all hot under the collar when public schools were segregated. 

 

 

:confused1:  Sorry, I don't get it.

 

Let me add a quote from Robin Thicke:

 "People say, ‘Hey, do you think this is degrading to women?’ I’m like, ‘Of course it is. What a pleasure it is to degrade a woman. I’ve never gotten to do that before. I’ve always respected women.â€

 

The whole package sounds like a bunch of BS cooked up to make young women THINK they are being "liberated" when they are really being USED. It's like those "GIrls Gone Wild" videos. Yuck.

[WishboneDawn]

Albeto, I can agree with what you are saying, but then I also think that girls are getting the message that the way to be sexual is to do things publicly that other people think is hot. They might be thumbing their noses at those who don't want them to be sexual, but they still aren't free to figure out what they themselves like. There needs to be a space between asexuality and attention slut where females can figure it out for themselves.

 

 

Bingo! Great point. In terms of sexuality most of us live on the middle ground between Hannah Montana and VMA Miley Cyrus. Setting up sexuality as a battle between extremes simplifies a complex issue and contacts the discussion space.

 

I watched Pacific Rim a couple of weeks ago and there's a parallel. One of the main characters, at first glance, seems like the stereotypical Asian woman in movies. She's quiet, seemingly subservient to a male character and falls pretty to an emotional meltdown that has people doubting her skills as a, uh, kicks pilot in a 25 story, monster-fighting robot (that fights were soooo good). She's not the tough talking, hard edged, sexually aggressive Lara Croft Character that every female action hero has to be and ends up expanded our idea of what a female hero might look like rather then narrowing it to an aggressive extreme. You take a second look and those stereotypes melt away as you realize what was really going on with her and bang, there's now room for more complicated female action stars.

 

But Miley was just the same extreme again, making it look like women's sexuality is just a two sided coin. Same old, same old. We're either the nun or the whore.

[albeto.]

What? 

 

Lady like? No. That is not the problem. You are really missing the boat on this one, IMO. She is debasing and objectifying herself. That's not a positive thing for women. Have you watched the Blurred Lines video? Women behaving in that manner doesn't promote equality for women. It doesn't promote anything good for anyone. How does treating other people like props (whether it is spanking a woman of color only there for that purpose or walking around naked in a video with fully clothed older men) promote equality or positive views of sexuality?

 

No, I have not seen the Blurred Lines video. I don't think Miley Cyrus is promoting anything but autonomy and self-determination. She makes a living doing this.  She's quite successful, as well.

 

From the 80's, Mtv has supported the use of countless dancers, models, and singers being used as props. Why is it more offensive when Miley Cyrus does it? If it's not more offensive, then why does this issue get more attention than the other blatantly misogynistic song and dance routines Mtv has supported over the years?

 

Plenty of atheistic feminists on my facebook feed didn't like the performance. Your grudge against anything that looks like your perceived notion of "religious values" clearly colors how you respond to issues.

 

I can't comment to your facebook feed, but IIRC, RoyRogers opined that in some countries (Germany?), this act wouldn't have raised a single eyebrow. I recall watching stuff far more risque in Brazil decades ago. I suspect the comparatively conservative religious values of various posters here colors their responses as well. It could be I'm the only one in the whole entire world (apart from those making a profit off her work) that finds herself on Team Miley in this context. That's okay, too. I still think this will be considered tame in years to come, and I think her pushing the envelope will be partly responsible. I think this is an envelope that needs pushing. Thus the support. 

[Mrs Mungo]

 

No, I have not seen the Blurred Lines video. I don't think Miley Cyrus is promoting anything but autonomy and self-determination. She makes a living doing this.  She's quite successful, as well.

 

From the 80's, Mtv has supported the use of countless dancers, models, and singers being used as props. Why is it more offensive when Miley Cyrus does it? If it's not more offensive, then why does this issue get more attention than the other blatantly misogynistic song and dance routines Mtv has supported over the years?

 

 

I can't comment to your facebook feed, but IIRC, RoyRogers opined that in some countries (Germany?), this act wouldn't have raised a single eyebrow. I recall watching stuff far more risque in Brazil decades ago. I suspect the comparatively conservative religious values of various posters here colors their responses as well. It could be I'm the only one in the whole entire world (apart from those making a profit off her work) that finds herself on Team Miley in this context. That's okay, too. I still think this will be considered tame in years to come, and I think her pushing the envelope will be partly responsible. I think this is an envelope that needs pushing. Thus the support. 

 

I *don't* think it's different than the blatantly misogynistic videos and songs. I don't watch those videos or listen to those types of artists for a reason. I think if you watched Miley's original video and the Blurred Lines video, then you might come away with a different impression of what happened. I disagree with Wendy about how this would be received as a public performance in Germany. I lived there for several years. Are things more risque? Certainly. But, everything comes across as more...consensual is the word I'm going to have to go with. 

[albeto.]

Albeto, I can agree with what you are saying, but then I also think that girls are getting the message that the way to be sexual is to do things publicly that other people think is hot. They might be thumbing their noses at those who don't want them to be sexual, but they still aren't free to figure out what they themselves like. There needs to be a space between asexuality and attention slut where females can figure it out for themselves.

 

Maybe it's my own issues coming out, but I don't think sexual exploration should be a spectator sport. It reminds me of the 14yo straight girls kissing each other and posting the pics on Facebook so all the guys will comment how hot it is. Are they fearlessly exploring their sexuality, or are they doing something sexual for attention? I think usually it's the latter. They might find arousing a bunch of guys on Facebook to be a turn on, but why do they have to do things they normally wouldn't find arousing to get there?

 

If Miley, in the privacy of her home, actually finds spanking other women's rears and bending over and shaking her own rear in front of a guy to be a turn on, then I owe her an apology. But my guess is that she doesn't particularly, and that's what bugs me about it all.

 

It has never changed for females that being sexual in public gets you lots of attention. It's only a small step in the right direction that girls feel freer to act so sexual so publicly, because ultimately it still probably isn't about their own desires -except maybe their desire to be desired

 

I agree with you that girls will get this message. I think it's in reaction to the conventional, conservative sexist message they're also getting. I don't think either messages are great, but one is pushback to another, in my opinion. It's this pushback that I support, because the original message is not justifiable, imo. I think it's necessary because too much attention is focused on sexual behavior fitting some kind of mold, and I think that's because sex is still used very much a tool for control in that message. That's lamentable to me. It shouldn't be about control any more than breakfast choice should be about control. But it is, and these traditional messages are the ones being rejected. Because this is Mtv, that rejection is going to be far more dramatic and over-the-top than most other messages, but that's typical of Mtv.

 

 

[Trish]

Oh please don't misunderstand. I'm not equating this to the feminist's version of MLK Jr.'s "I Have A Dream" speech. I equate this more along the lines of those "uncouth" flappers of the 1920's "demeaning" themselves by having the audacity to come out of the kitchen and demand a [rightful] place in public society for no other sake than to determine for themselves what to do with their time. Just as people mocked them then, and nearly a hundred years later think their "offense" was nothing more than breaking the social shackles of misogyny that they were expected to not only participate in, but internalize shame for rejecting. Well, screw that. Sex isn't dirty, it isn't sacred. It's just sex. Watching people get all hot under the collar because they saw a woman occasionally mock sexual movements in public is cathartic to some of us for the same reason it was watching bigots get all hot under the collar when public schools were segregated. 

 

If this were Miley's "I Have A Dream' speech, imagine the title of Robin Thicke's similarly-themed speech.

 

:ack2:

[Moxie]

I agree with you that girls will get this message. I think it's in reaction to the conventional, conservative sexist message they're also getting. I don't think either messages are great, but one is pushback to another, in my opinion. It's this pushback that I support, because the original message is not justifiable, imo. I think it's necessary because too much attention is focused on sexual behavior fitting some kind of mold, and I think that's because sex is still used very much a tool for control in that message. That's lamentable to me. It shouldn't be about control any more than breakfast choice should be about control. But it is, and these traditional messages are the ones being rejected. Because this is Mtv, that rejection is going to be far more dramatic and over-the-top than most other messages, but that's typical of Mtv.

Again, I think you are giving this whole thing much more weight than it deserves. This will go down in history just like Janet Jackson's Superbowl stunt--something that happened once and we all talked about it for a day or two.

 

Also, outside of conservative Christian groups, where are girls getting this message of shame?? Because that is NOT the message I see young women being given.

[albeto.]

How nice for the white women, eh? You get to thumb your nose at Victorian attitudes and not even acknowledge one of the other pieces that's emerging in the discussion about this and made up the rest of the my post that you quoted.

 

Aw, and we were getting along so well.

 

:(

 

 I'm talking about breaking the social taboo of maintaining certain standards of sexual behavior (not very well, I see). I'm not talking about the racial component. 

[Mrs Mungo]

If this were Miley's "I Have A Dream' speech, imagine the title of Robin Thicke's similarly-themed speech.

 

:ack2:

 

I have a dream...a dream that every bitch and ho can act as nasty as she wants and let me watch because that's all women are good for.

[nmoira]

I have a dream...a dream that every bitch and ho can act as nasty as she wants and let me watch because that's all women are good for.

 

Except my wife. :tongue_smilie:

[Moxie]

Albeto, I'm curious. Say you're elected queen of the world and whatever you say, goes. What is your ideal vision for human sexuality??

[Cinder]

I just want to say . . . I can't believe I read the whoooooooooole thing!  :laugh:

[Wheres Toto]

 

No, I have not seen the Blurred Lines video. I don't think Miley Cyrus is promoting anything but autonomy and self-determination. She makes a living doing this.  She's quite successful, as well.

 

 

I think you are giving her WAYYYY more credit than she deserves.  I don't think she's promoting autonomy or self-determination.  Or equality for women or sexual empowerment.  I think she's attempting to promote "Look at ME!! I'm all grown up and I'm hot!!"

 

I also find it interesting that earlier you concluded people were upset because she was flaunting without guilt (or something about not feeling guilty, sorry if I have it wrong).  I wonder why you concluded she doesn't feel any guilt for her behaviour?  I think there's a decent chance that if she actually watched her performance, she'd be feeling all kinds of regret.  Many girls who act this way aren't doing it because they feel empowered and strong, inside they are just scared little girls trying to find a way to get people to like them.  It's all an outward facade.

[*Michelle*]

I wonder when being a feminist transformed from being a strong woman into being a plaything. I thought the point was to stop having our actions dictated by skeevy old men.

[Catwoman]

I just want to say . . . I can't believe I read the whoooooooooole thing!  :laugh:

And now you're wishing you could un-read it, right? ;)

[WishboneDawn]

Aw, and we were getting along so well.

 

:(

 

I'm talking about breaking the social taboo of maintaining certain standards of sexual behavior (not very well, I see). I'm not talking about the racial component.

You think one is easily separated from the other or that we can celebrate one while not even discussing the other?

 

I get what you're saying, I'm just not convinced by it and I'm not sure how Miley`s taboo breaking (as if she did) gets celebrated when it comes at the cost of cultural appropriation and reducing women of a certain group to mere props.

 

I just don't get it. Her performance was awful, she conformed quite nicely to the old Madonna/whore dynamic, a whole `nother group of women were demeaned by it but somehow the fact that she pissed off some conservatives is the important bit?

[Χά�ων]

What a complete stranger did on a stage during a show I will never watch is frankly, none of my business and has no effect on my life. I am amazed that so many people have such an adverse emotional reaction. May I suggest a new hobby or maybe therapy?

[WishboneDawn]

I wonder when being a feminist transformed from being a strong woman into being a plaything. I thought the point was to stop having our actions dictated by skeevy old men.

But it's the pelvic thrust, that really drives you insane. Let's do the time warp again!

 

Seemed somehow appropriate. If we're not out there thrusting our pelvis, then we aren't modern feminists.

[Moxie]

What a complete stranger did on a stage during a show I will never watch is frankly, none of my business and has no effect on my life. I am amazed that so many people have such an adverse emotional reaction. May I suggest a new hobby or maybe therapy?

What a bunch of strangers discuss on a message board also has no effect on your life. Might I suggest a new hobby??

[nmoira]

What a complete stranger did on a stage during a show I will never watch is frankly, none of my business and has no effect on my life. I am amazed that so many people have such an adverse emotional reaction. May I suggest a new hobby or maybe therapy?

But think of the kids!

[WishboneDawn]

What a bunch of strangers discuss on a message board also has no effect on your life. Might I suggest a new hobby??

Oh, I wish I weren't on my phone so I could add a bunch of laughing smilies! :D

[Luanne]

We are a bunch of strangers as well.  I wonder why Queen Goddess comes on here and cares about what we do or don't care about.

[Χά�ων]

But think of the kids!

He doesn't watch it either and doesn't care to. He seems to think it is more important to be physically active when he is not engaging in his educational pursuits or building with Lego's while listening to audio books.

[Catwoman]

What a complete stranger did on a stage during a show I will never watch is frankly, none of my business and has no effect on my life. I am amazed that so many people have such an adverse emotional reaction. May I suggest a new hobby or maybe therapy?

So does that mean you won't be reading the whole, entire, very long thread? ;)

 

PS. I kind of miss your old name and avatar, and I'm wondering if you were aiming of some sort of WTM forum record for having the Longest Signature Ever. :D

[Moxie]

He doesn't watch it either and doesn't care to. He seems to think it is more important to be physically active when he is not engaging in his educational pursuits or building with Lego's while listening to audio books.

You forgot 'eating cereal'.

[Χά�ων]

So does that mean you won't be reading the whole, entire, very long thread? ;)

 

PS. I kind of miss your old name and avatar, and I'm wondering if you were aiming of some sort of WTM forum record for having the Longest Signature Ever. :D

I considered reading it but really, I cannot figure out why it is still being discussed. :confused1:  It keeps popping up in my new post feed.

 

I think I have seen a couple of longer signatures. I loved the last line but I figured it might be taken the wrong way in isolation. I would hate for someone to be offended because they didn't have a pure mind when they read "I am that which is attained at the end of desire".

[Wheres Toto]

So does that mean you won't be reading the whole, entire, very long thread? ;)

 

PS. I kind of miss your old name and avatar, and I'm wondering if you were aiming of some sort of WTM forum record for having the Longest Signature Ever. :D

 

Even though I changed my name, I don't think I like that we can now.  It keeps making me wonder who people used to be when I see they have large post counts.  

[WishboneDawn]

He doesn't watch it either and doesn't care to. He seems to think it is more important to be physically active when he is not engaging in his educational pursuits or building with Lego's while listening to audio books.

Ah. You're a better mother then me. I can barely get out of bed to hand the kids their morning beers.

[Χά�ων]

Ah. You're a better mother then me. I can barely get out of bed to hand the kids their morning beers.

As long as they are organic beers they should be fine.

[nmoira]

Ah. You're a better mother then me. I can barely get out of bed to hand the kids their morning beers.

Ummm, you're supposed to be training them up to bring you your morning beer.

[*Michelle*]

As long as they are organic beers they should be fine.

 

Tut tut. Home-brewed only for us.

[nmoira]

 

I'm a little leary of cries of "cultural appropriation" from a generation raised on Elvis and The Beatles and the Stones.

 

Oakley Sunglasses

 

This is my first time being quoted! I've arrived!

[Χά�ων]

Ummm, you're supposed to be training them up to bring you your morning beer.

You have a point

[Χά�ων]

Even though I changed my name, I don't think I like that we can now.  It keeps making me wonder who people used to be when I see they have large post counts.  

I'm still me!

[Catwoman]

This is my first time being quoted! I've arrived!

:party:

 

I think our troll is pretty particular about that sort of thing, too, so you definitely deserve congratulations.

 

He has never quoted me, although I still dream of the day when he might...

 

He's probably bitter toward me because I keep calling him an idiot and a moron.

[PrincessMommy]

This is my first time being quoted! I've arrived!

 

except he/she didn't give you credit.  That's just bad manners.

[WishboneDawn]

Ummm, you're supposed to be training them up to bring you your morning beer.

That would be to much effort.

[Catwoman]

I think I have seen a couple of longer signatures. I loved the last line but I figured it might be taken the wrong way in isolation. I would hate for someone to be offended because they didn't have a pure mind when they read "I am that which is attained at the end of desire".

Yeah, I could definitely see that going horribly wrong. :D