Does anyone not like the Little House books??

[*Michelle*]

Oh, Ma had her fair share of oddities, too.  I'm always dumbfounded at some of the things she would do, like making Laura hand over her rag doll to a toddler and letting the kid go home with it, or when Laura and Mary found all of the beads and there weren't enough for each to have a necklace so Ma makes them use them all to make a necklace for Carrie and then Carrie is going to break it, so she put the necklace away in a box until she's older.  What?  Why not have each girl make themselves a bracelet?

 

Another thing that kills me is that during the long winter, even when it's freezing, they still send the three girls upstairs to sleep at night.  If that were me, we'd have been doing a family bed in front of the fire. 

 

Regardless, I still love the books.  There are just things that jump out at me as a parent.

[nmoira]

Why not have each girl make themselves a bracelet?

 

 

My eldest suggested that perhaps Ma was trying to make sure that each child had at least a single special object all her own.

[Word Nerd]

No, old Jack dies in By the Shores of Silver Lake. IRL he was sold with Pet and Patty when the Ingalls family returned to Wisconsin from Indian Territory. It's unlikely Laura herself would have had many memories of Jack, since she was something like 3 or 4 at the time.

 

I know. I just wondered if the PP whose post I quoted quit reading the book before he realized Jack was OK.

[Erin]

I liked them more the second time.  My kids loved them.  I was a little put off by the spankings and details of the hog butchering, and the last two books, especially, are NOT FOR SENSITIVE KIDS. Even I was traumatized by The First Four Years.

I'm racking my brain here...  What was traumatic in The First Four Years?  Sad I can think of, but traumatic?  

 

 

My daughter (11) has read and loved every last one.  Personally, I was entirely too old when I first read Little House in the Big Wood, so I had to wait until I re-read it as an adult to get much out of that one.

And I think the fact that we are only a couple of generations away from pioneers in my corner of the world might have a lot to do with our enjoyment.   In fact, we had a good friend and neighbor that just died a couple years ago at the age of 96, who loved to tell stories of being a young boy on his folks' Kincaid claim.   My kids were utterly fascinated by him.   :)

 

We've discussed the fact that Laura embellished a lot of her stories, for good or for bad, and have looked up and compared the factual to the fiction.  It's interesting.  

But again, this is local history for us.  It was fun to re-read The Long Winter two years ago when Nebraska and SD were having a very similar winter.  The discussions we got out of that related to V-plows, and telephones, and grocery store deliveries...  Good stuff!  

[Acorn]

Regarding Pa up and going all of the time - wasn't that very typical for back then? It isn't a way I would ever want to live but I always viewed it as the normal pioneer life when reading.

 

It's nothing compared to what some of my ancestors did during Pa's lifespan.    They crossed the Atlantic Ocean and then wondered all about.  One fellow landed in New York and then sailed to California before settling in the midwest.

[Zuzu822]

Awww, you guys are being way too hard on Pa!

 

Pa did the best he could with the  cards he was dealt. Yes, they could have stayed in Wisconsin, but he wanted more of the American dream for his family. I agree with Kathleen, it seems pretty typical for a pioneer family to move around a bit.

 

Yes, he borrowed money but how was he to know that locusts were coming to eat his beautiful wheat fields thereby destroying any financial gain they had made?  It's really easy to play 20th century quarterback on his decisions, but I truly believe he deeply cared for his family and did all he could for his family. Plus, he could play the violin like nobody's business! What a bonus! ;)

 

I found Pa much more likeable than Ma - she always struck me as cold and unapproachable. Even in later years when Laura and Almanzo are married and have Rose, you can see how rigid she is.  Ma complains to Laura about Rose's behavior; apparently Ma expects her (Rose) to be able to sit still and sew on her sampler - at age 3!!??

 

I was sympathetic to Pa until the Long Winter when he'd go and hang out with the Wilder boys and eat pancakes and bacon while the womenfolk were literally starving up the street.  

[Chris in VA]

I was sympathetic to Pa until the Long Winter when he'd go and hang out with the Wilder boys and eat pancakes and bacon while the womenfolk were literally starving up the street.

That was only once, and he was trying to get them to sell their seed wheat. If you recall, he eyeballed the wall, saw it was false, and took his knife to it to cut out a knothole, and then got a bucket of wheat for his starving family.

[Scarlett]

...or other Laura Ingalls Wilder books??

 

I'm just curious.  I picked what books to read with Astro this year based on the 2nd grade list from Great Books Academy, and almost all of them are LIW books.  We just started our first one last week - Little House in the Big Woods, I think it is - and I'm seriously so bored I feel like I'm going to pull my hair out.  He seems to feel the same way, and he has some focusing issues (not diagnosed issues, just general spacey-ness) anyway.  Luckily I bought them all used, so I didn't spend much money on them, and I'd probably keep them anyway in case Pink wants to read them (on her own, preferably) when she is older.

I just have no idea what to do in place of them.  There were seriously, like, 8 LIW books on the list - and out of the other 4, I could only find 2.  So I don't know what to fill that gap with! 

 

Help!

 

 

I like them...not sure my 2nd grader liked them....I think he was older when we did read alouds.

 

I do not like The long Winter.  I didnt' like it as a kid and I hated it as an adult.  I did see a few things differently as an adult but it didn't make me like it any better.It was so depressing and Loooooong.

[Scrub Jay]

The Long Winter is a slow book. I liked it in general but it is my least favorite of the series.

[Mothersweets]

In real life, during the Long Winter the Ingalls family had a young couple with a newborn staying with them. Apparently, the wife went a little whack-a-doodle. Too bad Laura didn't keep that part in the book - it would have made The Long Winter much more interesting. ;)

 

 

Has anyone read The Wilder Life:My Adventures in the Lost World of Little House on the Prairie by Wendy McClure? Fun, quick, informative read with lots of "this is what really happened" bits.

[mommymilkies]

I'm racking my brain here... What was traumatic in The First Four Years? Sad I can think of, but traumatic?

 

 

My daughter (11) has read and loved every last one. Personally, I was entirely too old when I first read Little House in the Big Wood, so I had to wait until I re-read it as an adult to get much out of that one.

And I think the fact that we are only a couple of generations away from pioneers in my corner of the world might have a lot to do with our enjoyment. In fact, we had a good friend and neighbor that just died a couple years ago at the age of 96, who loved to tell stories of being a young boy on his folks' Kincaid claim. My kids were utterly fascinated by him. :)

 

We've discussed the fact that Laura embellished a lot of her stories, for good or for bad, and have looked up and compared the factual to the fiction. It's interesting.

But again, this is local history for us. It was fun to re-read The Long Winter two years ago when Nebraska and SD were having a very similar winter. The discussions we got out of that related to V-plows, and telephones, and grocery store deliveries... Good stuff!

Spoilers!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The description of her baby dying, house burning down, fields all failing and the stress mounting throughout the book. I'm just a terribly empathetic person and was in tears throughout about every single page. My kids were fairly traumatized, too. I have attended one baby funeral. That was one too many. It brought back a lot of deep and horrified feelings.

[Erin]

I dunno...  

 

I tend to think avoiding that kind of reading is why we have this overly romanticized (and not terribly accurate) view of history.

[Acorn]

I dunno...  

 

I tend to think avoiding that kind of reading is why we have this overly romanticized (and not terribly accurate) view of history.

 

And why I am grateful for diphtheria vaccines.

[FaithManor]

As an adult, I found Pa to be incredibly irresponsible when it came to his family's welfare.  I was glad when Ma finally put her foot down and said no more moving around.  When they were starving in The Long Winter, I kept thinking, "you should have stayed in your nice cabin in the Big Woods, near your family."

 

I'm obviously not the pioneer-type.

I have a problem with both ma and pa. It is very obvious from not only the writing, which admittedly would be biased, but from preserved, personal correspondance, that ma favored Mary so heavily that it was really unconscienable. As for Pa, not only did he drag them from pillar to post - it was worse in real life than just the books...there was a move BACK to the Little House in the Big Woods before the one recorded in the books, a move to Burr Oak Iowa in which they were forced to live above a Saloon that he had to manage (alluded to in the t.v. series, but much worse in real life than portrayed and their only son, Charles Frederick was born there and died from some unknown cause), and if memory serves one more move besides all that Laura/Rose was willing to record. In the Long Winter, though there were obvious signs that Carrie, in particular, was not doing well, he still opted to NOT butcher the heifer even though that would have seriously helped them all out physically and since it was freezing and remaing below zero for weeks at a time, they could preserve the meat, would have made perfect sense. He still had the milk cow to begin his herd with yet again. But, his dream of raising cattle on the prairie - thus not wanting to lose a year by butchering an available heifer - came ahead of his family.

 

Then there was such incredible favoring of Mary, beyond all practicality of the age, that caused Laura to feel that she somehow owed her school pay to keep Mary at the blind school. That money could have benefited Laura so much more, and frankly, while it sounds lovely to send Mary to school, the reality was that they were going to have to take care of Mary for the rest of her life no matter what regardless of her level of education. Laura, however, could have been sent to finishing school on that money, or it could have been saved which would have helped her and Almanzo in the future. All of those expensive clothes that her mother made for Mary from Laura's paycheck...makes my face twitch. Laura should have had those clothes, and there was the well being of the other children to consider...if nothing else that money should have just been family savings to help with groceries, or medical bills, or to finish the homestead to help it earn more money, or whatever. But, train tickets, a travel trunk, dresses in the latest style, hoops, underthings, curriculum, tuition, and later a pump organ for Mary. It all sounds well and good when the family is financially sound. But, this family at times could hardly feed everyone.

 

If you ask me, something was seriously wrong with both parents thinking, but the fact that Ma could favor Mary to such an extent that all practicality for Laura, Carrie, and Grace was abandoned, was just immoral in my opinion. Pa let it go on, and he should have put his foot down. When there was a little money that could have been put to wise use, and on the heels of a winter that nearly did them in, nope...crazy, cuckoo ma gets to send her favorite to "college". AND...this one just boggled my imagination! When pa was going to see if there were any groceries left in the store when the blizzards began hitting, Ma actually apologized to Mary because they might have to dip into her "college" savings. Ma had to have had a major screw loose somewhere in her head.

[Scarlett]

When I read the books as a kid, I asked my mom about the favortism toward Mary.  Mom said that maybe it wasn't really like that, but only Laura's childhood perspective.

 

I don't know though....

[momma2three]

In real life, I don't know how much money was actually spent sending Mary to college... the federal government paid the tuition and I don't know if they paid any additional stipends.  I always figured that the emphasis on how Laura was helping Mary was a prime example of what someone mentioned earlier of changing the story to match the political motivation of the author(s).

[FaithManor]

In real life, I don't know how much money was actually spent sending Mary to college... the federal government paid the tuition and I don't know if they paid any additional stipends.  I always figured that the emphasis on how Laura was helping Mary was a prime example of what someone mentioned earlier of changing the story to match the political motivation of the author(s).

I'll try to find the source documents. Two different sources indicate at least one period of being absent from the program. One doesn't list the reason, the other says finances, and a third alluded to it, but really didn't seem to have anything concrete, yet indicating health. Sigh...not so much to go on. I've edited this post to indicate the newer information.

 

Here's an interesting factoid - Pa was a Freemason and Ma was the female equivalent for the wives. When Pa died, he was high enough up in the organization that his burial ceremony was secret, even ma was not allowed to attend.

[mommymilkies]

I dunno...  

 

I tend to think avoiding that kind of reading is why we have this overly romanticized (and not terribly accurate) view of history.

Was this directed at me?  I don't have a romanticized view of history.  I happily read Herodotus and every British history book I can lay my hands on.  Les Mis is my favorite book.  The First Four Years traumatized me because it was just so gut wrenchingly stressful it was like a friend losing her baby again right in front of me, after watching Laura grow up.  I'm not apologizing for that.  I don't see the need to insult my opinion or feel of the book.

[Erin]

I honestly have no idea about you specifically.  I was speaking in generalities.  Because it IS true that the avoidance of the dark side is why history tends to be glossed over.  Though I will say, I don't remember any of those things as particularly graphic...

 

 

 

favortism toward Mary

We also need to keep in mind, values were different back then.  

People felt a MUCH greater responsibility to the function of the family as a whole.   It wasn't unusual for children to go to work at a very young age in order to put money into the family's coffers, for example.  

[Acorn]

I read recently that Mary might not have had scarlet fever.

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/what-really-made-mary-ingalls-go-blind-1B8230525

 

[FaithManor]

There's also a descrepancy concerning the length of Mary's program. Technically, the blind school offered a 12 year program of study...something designed to essentially take a blind child from primary through high school. But, Mary took examinations due to being older to place her in the appropriate classes. Some sources say she placed into an eight year course of study, others six. At some point, however she placed, the composition classes were considered "college level" especially as it pertained to essay writing and poetry.

 

The some sources claim she graduated the full 12 year course, but that is doubtful because other records indicate she was pulled out more than once for lack of finances and it doesn't appear that she would have needed to begin "at the beginning" academically. Yes, she needed to learn braille, but she already had a lot of academic knowledge and didn't need to be taught beginning math or reading.

 

It's all very strange on the whole of things because, this was a family that just simply could hardly keep a roof over their heads and food on the table. To pay any money for transportation, books, special clothing according to the latest fashions, etc. even if the government paid her tuition which there isn't an actual record of though it appears some students may have benefitted from state programs, just kind of boggles the imagination.

 

I haven't been able to track down sources that are in total agreement about the actual amount of time she spent at the school. So, I wonder if the school didn't have the best of records, or if due to privacy reasons, some things weren't recorded. One source says she studied seven years and did graduated with a one year absence. Another said a two year absence and no graduation. Probably we'll never know for certain exactly what the deal really was. But, I guess since scarlett fever doesn't actually cause blindness, it has been determined that she suffered from some type of viral or bacterial encephalitis. That makes sense.

 

At any rate, I did find one website that indicated since the Dakotas were part of the Iowa territory, Mary would have been eligible for free or reduced tuition as long as her parents paid for all of her other expenses. I would imagine this is why they were able to send her on Laura's pay. The territorial government subsidized the school with tuition on a sliding scale based on income. It was based on family income so Laura's pay for sewing and for teaching would have counted. The interesting thing is I can't find the income scale for the 1880's. Maybe they didn't keep good records back then. So, you learn something new everyday because I've read sources that said they had to also pay her tuition, but the source I just looked up was from the actual school in Vinton, says that yes, the territorial government paid tuition, but all transportation and curriculum was the responsibility of the family and some aspects of "board" were also not covered.

[Zuzu822]

That was only once, and he was trying to get them to sell their seed wheat. If you recall, he eyeballed the wall, saw it was false, and took his knife to it to cut out a knothole, and then got a bucket of wheat for his starving family.

 

I remembered it happening at least twice, but I just skimmed through and I do see it only once.  However, the Wilder boys *do* ask Pa to drop in often, and while Laura doesn't tell us if he did, it still irks me.

[Dory]

It wasn't unusual for heavy favoritism to happen. I see it pretty heavy through my family history on my mom's side and the letters and journals I have from my ancestors. Moving every year or two was also something I saw a lot in my family for the last 4-5 generations simply because of wanderlust. No real need other than the deep desire to change place, go somewhere new, explore sort of. I've watched my Grandpa almost go nuts trying to stay in one place so that his family would be happy until my Grandma would just tell him to move. He loved it. With my great grandparents, I know that everyone pooled their resources, many of whom were saving for their own futures, so that one son could head to medical school.

[Seasider]

I really enjoyed the books as a child, but I always thought it would be horrid to have to be Caroline Ingalls. And since i have visited the prairieland as a grown up, i still feel that way. Not my cuppa.

 

Most of my kids enjoyed these as read alouds, but my youngest dd is just so-so about them. She much prefers the Lois Lensky regional books.

[Garga]

I only read one aloud to the children. I skipped over descriptive scenes and rewrote some of the dialogue as I read. It's pretty boring reading some of the descriptions out loud.

[*Michelle*]

For everyone commenting on this thread, I'm really interested in reading more about the real life of the Ingalls.  Which books are your favorites?  The descriptions of the ones on Amazon are so vague.  I want to know the real story!

[PeacefulChaos]

You guys are making me feel so much better lol!  :P

I did buy all the books used, so I don't feel as bad as I would have if, say, I had spent a lot of money on them and decided not to read them.  ;)

I just felt sort of bad at first - here were these books that I'd never read, and they were so well-known and well-loved, and I was going, uhhh.... :lol:

I definitely need to head to the library this week and see what else I can find to read with Astro. 

[*Michelle*]

I remembered it happening at least twice, but I just skimmed through and I do see it only once.  However, the Wilder boys *do* ask Pa to drop in often, and while Laura doesn't tell us if he did, it still irks me.

 

I could understand that, though.  Eating a meal or two at the Wilder's meant he didn't have to eat as much at home.  He couldn't exactly bring the whole family over to eat, so it made sense to me for him to accept their hospitality and then bring home the wheat for everyone else.

[Scrub Jay]

You know, I said I wouldn't want to move like they did but scratch that. I wouldn't want to do that nowadays but definitely then. It seems rather claustrophobic to be stuck in the same area with such a small view of the world. So, yes, I would want to up and move from time to time.

[Erin]

 

I did find one website that indicated since the Dakotas were part of the Iowa territory,

Wait a sec... The Dakotas were their own territory (Dakota Territory) from around the Civil War, following their separation from Nebraska Territory, IIRC...

[Mothersweets]

For everyone commenting on this thread, I'm really interested in reading more about the real life of the Ingalls.  Which books are your favorites?  The descriptions of the ones on Amazon are so vague.  I want to know the real story!

 

There are a few biographies, here's one http://www.amazon.com/Laura-The-Life-Ingalls-Wilder/dp/0380016362/ref=pd_sim_b_13

 

I also liked Laura's Album: A Remembrance Scrapbook of Laura Ingalls Wilder

 

and Laura Ingalls Wilder Country: The People and Places in Laura Ingalls Wilder's Life and Books.

 

If you go to Amazon you will see a dozen different books about her, her writing, etc. Your library probably has at least a few of them.

 

Oh, the book I linked above is good for the "real" story, too.

 

hth

[Zuzu822]

I could understand that, though. Eating a meal or two at the Wilder's meant he didn't have to eat as much at home. He couldn't exactly bring the whole family over to eat, so it made sense to me for him to accept their hospitality and then bring home the wheat for everyone else.

Put that way, I can see that it could be helpful, in Pa's eyes. The book does talk about him growing weak and losing weight and he was still doing a lot of heavy physical work during those months.

[FaithManor]

It wasn't unusual for heavy favoritism to happen. I see it pretty heavy through my family history on my mom's side and the letters and journals I have from my ancestors. Moving every year or two was also something I saw a lot in my family for the last 4-5 generations simply because of wanderlust. No real need other than the deep desire to change place, go somewhere new, explore sort of. I've watched my Grandpa almost go nuts trying to stay in one place so that his family would be happy until my Grandma would just tell him to move. He loved it. With my great grandparents, I know that everyone pooled their resources, many of whom were saving for their own futures, so that one son could head to medical school.

Yes, I've seen it in on both sides of my families - my parents were NOT the favored children in either of their families - just not to the degree of potential family, financial peril that the Ingalls family practiced it. The organ pa asked Laura to help him buy was a ridiculous amount of money for them. That $75.00 she contributed is the equivalent today of $1600.00. That's a lot of money for a young girl with limited income earning options. Pa would have contributed literally, future grocery money. It just seems so odd since the other stories I've read from the era indicate that pioneer families had a tendancy to be ultra practical, and survival came first.

 

I guess pa was a dreamer and figured he would always do better than he did.

[HRAAB]

For someone that has read the entire series aloud three times, used the Prairie Primer twice, and visited most of the Little House sites, it pretty amazing that I've never cared much for them.  In our family it's just easier to join in than rebel.  Plus we did take vacations around Little House, and I love vacations.  Of all the books, I enjoyed Farmer Boy the most.

 

I like Caddie Woodlawn much better than Little House.  Oh, and I rather liked the first two in the Little Britches series, but that was all I read of them.  

[Scarlett]

For someone that has read the entire series aloud three times, used the Prairie Primer twice, and visited most of the Little House sites, it pretty amazing that I've never cared much for them. In our family it's just easier to join in than rebel. Plus we did take vacations around Little House, and I love vacations. Of all the books, I enjoyed Farmer Boy the most.

 

I like Caddie Woodlawn much better than Little House. Oh, and I rather liked the first two in the Little Britches series, but that was all I read of them.

Farmer boy was my favorite too I think. It is especially good to read it after The Long Winter which is so depressing....FB was filled with very descriptive language showing that his family had plenty of food.

[saraha]

Yes, it's from 2009 and is based on the Little House on the Prairie book.

:-)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP9jnbrpG4Y

Thanks for this. I just added it to my amazon cart for my 8yo prairie girl wannabe for Christmas.