The Complete Writer: Writing with Ease (WWE) -- All separate threads merged here

[OKCyndi]

I see it's for elementary, but would 2nd grade be too young? Or does it correlate to a particular FLL book? Thanks! Cyndi

[Susan Wise Bauer]

No, you can start right in with a second-grader. if the child can copy well and doesn't struggle too much with the physical act of writing, start with Level 2; if not, start with Level 1.

 

WWE can be used with any grammar program, but the copywork and dictation exercises do cover grammatical elements in the same order that they are covered in FLL.

 

SWB

[Sue G in PA]

so 2nd grade wouldn't be too young. I'm planning to use it w/ my 2nd grader. It doesn't necessarily "coorelate" to any of the FLL books, but seems to "jive" well with them if you KWIM. You can use one w/out the other or in conjunction with. Either way. SWB actually just posted an answer to a similar question under the WWE mega-thread.

[Sue G in PA]

I suppose you can disregard my answer, LOL! She sums it up much better! :)

[OKCyndi]

I love it when the voice from on high comes down to advise. I'm preordering!

[Pensguys]

Susan, I'd like your input please.

 

My ds is similar to the person you replied to above. He will be 9 and in 3rd grade this Fall. He has been diagnosed with dyslexia and dysgraphia but he is improving by leaps and bounds this year. He is reading on a 2nd grade level now and I hope he continues to improve as we plan to continue reading practice/lessons during the summer. We have been doing OT for the dysgraphia as well as some spatial issues and will finish that in May. His therapist says she believes cursive may be better for him so we intend to start that this Fall.

 

We worked through a LITTLE bit of FLL 1 (1st grade)last year and none this year (2nd) but I was mainly concerned with getting him reading and writing comfortably as well as getting his spelling going this year. Do you think it would be fine to just go through FLL1/2 at a quicker pace or start FLL3 along with WWE 2?

 

Thanks.

[Guest]

bump

[jg_puppy]

I know it has been asked a few times, but when will samples of the level 2 workbook be available. I am still trying to figure our writing plans for next year and I would love to see a sample before deciding.

 

Jan

[Pensguys]

bump

[Guest]

bumpy bump bump....hmmm...am I referring to my expanding pregnant belly or moving this thread to the top....

[Susan Wise Bauer]

Susan, I'd like your input please.

 

My ds is similar to the person you replied to above. He will be 9 and in 3rd grade this Fall. He has been diagnosed with dyslexia and dysgraphia but he is improving by leaps and bounds this year. He is reading on a 2nd grade level now and I hope he continues to improve as we plan to continue reading practice/lessons during the summer. We have been doing OT for the dysgraphia as well as some spatial issues and will finish that in May. His therapist says she believes cursive may be better for him so we intend to start that this Fall.

 

We worked through a LITTLE bit of FLL 1 (1st grade)last year and none this year (2nd) but I was mainly concerned with getting him reading and writing comfortably as well as getting his spelling going this year. Do you think it would be fine to just go through FLL1/2 at a quicker pace or start FLL3 along with WWE 2?

 

Thanks.

 

I'd stick with the FLL1/2 at a quicker pace plan, largely because it will introduce him to many of the concepts he'll encounter in FLL3, but will allow him more opportunity to practice orally. By the time you get to FLL3, the writing issues will be a little easier to deal with. And don't worry about "getting behind." You can do FLL3 and FLL4 and then go right into Rod & Staff 5, and since the Rod & Staff sequence finishes in tenth grade, you can start FLL 5 as late as seventh grade and still finish on time.

 

Make sense?

 

SWB

[Susan Wise Bauer]

I know it has been asked a few times, but when will samples of the level 2 workbook be available. I am still trying to figure our writing plans for next year and I would love to see a sample before deciding.

 

Jan

 

We'll put them up as soon as the typesetting is finished--definitely by midsummer. I'll keep you posted.

 

SWB

[Pensguys]

Thanks, Susan.....That makes me feel better.

[jg_puppy]

Thank you. I can't wait to see it and the new book.

 

Jan

[Southern_mom]

I have a son who will be 8-9 next school year.

However, he has some issues (Sensory Processing Disorder)

which has him reading at a 2nd grade level (reading aloud), but he doesn't

read to himself yet. He has speech delays.

Also, he has fine motor skill issues that caused me up to this point

to give him very little writing exercises. We do many things orally.

He hasn't started a spelling program although he can spell somewhat

and he hasn't had much grammar instruction.

I'm looking forward to jumping into all these areas next year as with

OT his tolerance for writing should improve.

 

That said, he is very smart. Would if be alright to start with FLL for

1st and 2nd grade while doing the first book of EIW and the accompanying workbooks? I'm concerned that starting him at the beginning (1st grade when he will be in 3rd) will set him back.

Should I skip the 1st grade part and move into the 2nd grade part

of the books? I don't think he's ready for 3rd in them.

 

Maybe because of his age we could move at an accelerated rate if we start behind?

 

Our other plans for the year will include:

4th grade math

All About Spelling

SOTW 1

BJU Reading 3rd

Bible

Home Science Adventures K-8.

HWT

 

Can Susan Wise Bauer or someone else as knowlegeable comment?

Thanks!

Southern Mom.

[Parrothead]

I did FLL 1&2 in dd's second grade year. I just skipped the repetition once she got it. If I remember correctly I doubled up on lessons up to lesson 80 then did one lesson at a time after that. It filled out 180 days of school.

[Pensguys]

SouthernMom, If you read up above, Susan addressed my post which is similar to yours. She said it would be just fine to do FLL1/2 at an accelerated pace and start with WWE Year 2.....and to not worry about being behind....THAT relieved a TON of stress I was feeling.

[Southern_mom]

Thanks for the replies!

Ok, So I will work at an accelerated speed through FFL 1/2

while doing EIW 1 or 2 at the same time. We may even choose

to do this during summer.

I also will try not to judge our progress by standards

we left behind when we left public school. :)

Thanks!

[TexasTea]

earlier in this thread (page 5 or 6?) I asked SWB for advise with my older non writers. This was in early Feb. and I have followed her advise to the letter with great success!

 

Here is what she advised:

 

<<Your high school writings...

Debbie,

 

Sorry it took me a couple of days to get back to this...the weekend happened.:)

 

Neither one of your kids needs to do any creative writing--it's absolutely NOT necessary for an educated person to write creatively. You either enjoy it, or you don't, and forcing a child who doesn't have a bent for creative writing to do creative assignments can result in a child who loathes ALL kinds of writing.

 

If I were you (and if you can swing it), I'd put the tenth grader into the IEW Student Classes on DVD series--starting with the writing intensive, then doing the continuation course, and aiming to finish up the high school essay at least by twelfth grade.

 

I'd start the seventh grader on Writing Strands, Book 5, finish the Writing Strands series, and then move her into the IEW student classes as well.

 

A word about IEW...I like the structure taught, but I personally dislike the dress-ups very much. "Style" should be a result of clear communication. Artificially teaching style can result in very awkward writing. So do the assignments...but I'd skip the dress-ups if I were you.

 

Let me know if you have more questions and I'll do my best to get back to you a little more promptly.>>

 

 

My 7th grader is almost finished with WS 4 and told me this week that it was 'kinda fun'! Whoo Hoo.

 

My 10th grader will finish IEW in 3 more weeks and has learned allot. She says she now feels she can take any writing assignment given in a program and do it without much trouble.

 

SWB really knows what she is talking about and I can't wait to try her new program for younger writers.

[KCR's Mom]

Hello! Our dd will be 6 in June. With help from OPG, she has been reading since she was 3, and she is fluent well beyond grade level. We expect to finish FLL-1 in a couple of weeks. Her handwriting is probably more on target for this age, and we have not been doing a formal program in this area.

 

So.... when we start WWE, we'll likely be into FLL-2 but she won't have a real comfort level with handwriting yet. Could you please advise where we should start WWE - level 1 or 2?

 

Many, many thanks - WTM truly inspired us to begin our HS journey, and your work continues to be a foundation and source of encouragement for us. :)

[mommy247]

Question for SWB.

 

Hello Susan, I can't believe that I am brave enough to ask you a question. I have been reading through all the threads concerning writing and still I am left with some questions.

Here is our info. I have four children that we will begin homeschooling next year after being in a private classical school ( you actually came and spoke to us here in Fort Worth several years back; which was WONDERFUL!)

My questions are mainly in regard to the older 2 children and writing. (I think I understand how to use WWEand/or FFL with the 5 year oid and 7 year old). The older children are 9 and 10 (respectively 4th and 6th grade next year). Could you elaborate on the strengths/weakness of IEW and CW curriculums. I have felt very drawn to CW, but worry that we would be missing out on the things that IEW is strong in. Is there a logical way to combine these writing programs, like one would with Math programs, in order to benefit from the strengths of each of them?

My number one priority next year is to get them confident, encouraged and equipped with their writing. They have done Shurly Grammar 9 year old through 3rd grade and 11 year old through 5th grade. YIKES! IT's not working and so I plan on using Rod and Staff, but would like to supplement the writing with CW. Perhaps IEW. Writing Strands didn't seem too appealing to us, but very straightforward.

We have had limited writing experience with narration, and dictation. The 11 year old has done some keyword outlines/dress ups but does not readily apply these.

What would be the overall benefit of doing CW? Why would I chose IEW over CW?

 

THANKS SO MUCH! Your influence on my family's educational journey has been such a profound blessing. I thank the Lord for the educational opportunites that my children have had and we are so looking forward to being home together next year to fill in the gaps! Your guidance has been exactly what we have needed and desired.

 

Renee

[Melissa in PA]

Hi Susan. I've read a bunch of your posts where you've answered questions about where to start a child in WWE. However, I haven't seen any posts that deal with my particular situation or a child his age.

 

I have a 3rd grader who can copy well but makes mistakes with dictation. He typically will have some spelling or punctuation errors. In reality, I'm guilty of neglecting dictation simply because I feel like it is teaching him bad habits. So, instead, we have been mainly focusing on copy work.

 

He regularly writes summaries and has no problem with summarizing what he's learned. Although he has had some nice pages, he typically has run on sentences and improper punctuation. Some of this, I've thought was a result of his cognitive ability being ahead of his composition skills.

 

So, where would you suggest starting him in WWE? I'm very torn about where to start him. Thanks for any insight you can provide!

[Tabitha]

...is going with WWE the better thing to do at this point?

 

Holy cow...I don't know what to use now after viewing samples online.

 

We did FLL for 1st and 2nd. GWG for 3rd. I thought I was gonna move to R&S English 4...or Writing Strands 3 with R&S or GWG...

 

Then I peeked at WWE and FLL 3 and 4.

 

Is it back tracking if I go to FLL 3? My dd knows all this info already.... GWG 3 has been very easy for her. But, I hate to think she's missed something (and we STILL love singing the Pronoun Song)!

 

My 3rd graders hand writing sucks, to put it simply. She is an avid and fluent reader. Her 5 yo sister writes much neater (just barely beginning to read). I won't be able to use FLL with my now 5 yo until she's in 2nd...it's just too much for her right now.

 

I do need a good writing program to help me knock it out of the 8 yo when she continually writes letters and numbers from the bottom up. I've been trying to get her to stop that for over 4 years. Nothing works.

 

My hang up is preferring to have the workbooks for her level with WWE...makes it easier to get her to do things that way.

 

Where do I go, and what do I use? She wants to write creatively, so I was leaning towards Writing Strands 3. However is R&S Eng. 4 doesn't need to be paired with writing anymore...I don't know.

 

I just keep this vicious circle going on in my head - how do I begin to know what to choose?

 

Tab

[mittmaman]

I am so sorry to bother you with my "organisational questions" but could you please let us know how many weeks there are in WWE 1 and 2 (and maybe also 3 & 4...). Also, are the weeks each structured the same, more or less?

Thank you so much!

[Oak Knoll Mom]

Would you be willing to post sample pages of the 3rd year section of WWE similar to what you did with the 1st year sample? It would be helpful to see an example of the 3rd year pages so I can see if it would be too much for me to do on my own. I'm wavering between putting my 3rd grader in the 2nd year workbook or forging ahead on my own with just the main book.

 

Thank you!

[Guest]

bump

[Guest meg:momof4]

I am very excited to see the new program, Writing With Ease. We used FLL last year, and my son did really well with it. My question is this, and given a new program, not sure what thoughts are on the subject. We are on year 2 with FLL (2nd grade) - should we start with Workbook 2 of WWE or just start at the beginning of the program? any thoughts?

[Pata]

I asked this question also a while back, there is a huge thread with all those questions, maybe somebody else will post a link(i don't know how!) or you could search for it. Basically SWB said that if your ds is doing copywork and some narration well they would be ready for level 2. It's my understanding that it moves into dictation part way through. I am going to order the book first, read it and the get the workbook when I know for sure where we are going to start. Hope that helps!

[Tabitha]

Yep, start at level 2. WWE has 4 levels, one for each FLL level. You can do this writing alongside the FLL written/copywork portion if your child needs more practice...or don't do the FLL written stuff and just do the WWE. Anyway, WWE is meant to complement FLL.

 

That's what I get from all the info....

 

Here's that nice long thread the poster above referred to:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4853&highlight=wwe

 

Tab

[Guest meg:momof4]

perfect. that answered all my questions. thanks ladies!

[Susan Wise Bauer]

The older children are 9 and 10 (respectively 4th and 6th grade next year). Could you elaborate on the strengths/weakness of IEW and CW curriculums. I have felt very drawn to CW, but worry that we would be missing out on the things that IEW is strong in. Is there a logical way to combine these writing programs, like one would with Math programs, in order to benefit from the strengths of each of them?

My number one priority next year is to get them confident, encouraged and equipped with their writing. They have done Shurly Grammar 9 year old through 3rd grade and 11 year old through 5th grade. YIKES! IT's not working and so I plan on using Rod and Staff, but would like to supplement the writing with CW. Perhaps IEW. Writing Strands didn't seem too appealing to us, but very straightforward.

We have had limited writing experience with narration, and dictation. The 11 year old has done some keyword outlines/dress ups but does not readily apply these.

What would be the overall benefit of doing CW? Why would I chose IEW over CW?

 

Sorry it took me a while to get to this thread! I'll offer a couple of thoughts, with this qualifier: I've examined both of these programs, but I haven't used them with my own children (I'm a writer and I have strong opinions about how writing should be taught, so I do my own thing :001_smile:).

 

First, I think either program would equip your kids with writing skills, so you don't have to fret too much about making a big mistake with your choices. If you feel drawn to CW, I'd go with CW.

 

Second, differences: IMO, CW has a more global approach to writing--a wider focus on general writing skills, on THINKING about writing, on doing types of writing which aren't necessarily going to prepare students directly for upper high school and college writing, but which are nevertheless valuable and interesting. IEW is more narrowly focused on essay prep, especially in the upper grades. That's not a bad or good thing, just a difference in emphasis.

 

Third, strengths and weaknesses: I've said before that I don't think CW has enough parent helps, especially for parents who are apprehensive about teaching writing or who feel unprepared--this may be a nonissue for you, but I'd definitely review the course before purchasing it. And, as a general observation...my own preference is to do the progym in high school and to spend the middle school years working on outlining skills and structure--the logic of writing. IEW does a very good job with this. However, for me the big weakness of IEW is the whole dress-up element of the program. The idea of artificially shaping sentences by inserting various elements is kind of...abhorrent. Style should be a by-product of clear straightforward expression. (DISCLAIMER. I like Andrew Pudewa, he's an excellent teacher, his program is valuable, many people use it well, but I'm a writer and this facet of IEW bugs me, probably out of all proportion.)

 

Fourth, random thoughts: I'm guessing that if you didn't like Shurley you might not enjoy IEW--it seems to me that the teaching styles are similar.

 

Conclusion: you can make either program work for you. If you're drawn to CW, follow your instincts and use it. You might consider picking up the IEW high school essay course, when the kids are a bit older, and running them through that to cover all your bases.

 

Hope this helps. I'm kind of reluctant now to post about other writing programs because 1) as I'm producing my own, I'm no longer a particularly objective observer, and 2) I don't want my highly personal opinions (see above) taken as either condemnation or endorsement. Or reproduced as such on other home school sites. Those are my OPINIONS.

 

Here's something that you can take as actual DIRECTION, though. Do the program you're drawn to and don't fall into the trap of worrying about the things you're "missing." Either program will build strong basic skills.

 

SWB

[Susan Wise Bauer]

Would you be willing to post sample pages of the 3rd year section of WWE similar to what you did with the 1st year sample? It would be helpful to see an example of the 3rd year pages so I can see if it would be too much for me to do on my own. I'm wavering between putting my 3rd grader in the 2nd year workbook or forging ahead on my own with just the main book.

 

Thank you!

 

Working on it!

 

SWB

[mommy247]

SWB,

 

I just wanted to thank you so much for your insights and encouragement. I am still undecided at the moment, but you have given me greater confidence in which ever decision we make in regards to writing. Final question, would anything in WWE that will be published currently be of use to my 9 and 11 year olds? (Remember that I mentioned we had limited experience with narration and dictation).

 

Blessings,

Renee Earl

[Susan Wise Bauer]

Final question, would anything in WWE that will be published currently be of use to my 9 and 11 year olds? (Remember that I mentioned we had limited experience with narration and dictation).

 

Depends. The purpose of narration and dictation is to help students develop basic skills in getting words down on paper. If your 9 and/or 11 yo can tell you what they want to write, out loud, using complete well-formed sentences, they don't need to do narration. If they can take those sentences and put them down on paper without struggling with spelling and punctuation, and without asking you constantly to help them remember what they're trying to write, they don't need to do dictation. If they struggle in either of these areas, they could benefit from the last two years of lessons on WWE.

 

SWB

[Beth in SW WA]

Susan,

Will you have any new materials ready to sell at WHO in June? My visa is locked and loaded :)

 

Will you address logic and/or rhetoric stage writing at any of your workshops?

 

Thanks!!

[Oak Knoll Mom]

Working on it!

 

SWB

 

Thank you! Looking forward to seeing them.

[mommy247]

SWB.:

 

Thanks again. I think I am more clear now where they are in their abilities. Looking forward to using WWE with the littlekinz (5 & 6) for sure.

 

Blessings!

Renee

[mo2]

but I couldn't find anything using the search feature and don't have to scan through umpteen pages of this thread!

 

Would it be good/possible/make sense to use WWE for 1-4 and then go into CW? I've been planning on using CW all along, but now, of course, you've got my interest with WWE!

[Jumping In Puddles]

So it seems for someone just learning to write, Susan is recommending FLL and WWE together for the grammar stage.

 

I have also read good things about WT. How does this compare?

 

Thanks!

[tinkgumby]

I was planning on having my boys use D'Nealian manuscript for copywork and handwriting this fall, but I love the look of WWE and workbook. Is it too confusing if the workbook examples are in one style and I want them to write in another? Or maybe I should give up on D'Nealian entirely??? I'm open to suggestions! (:

[Pensguys]

What style of handwriting do they use now? My ds used HWT, but his spelling book (Apples and Pears) uses something similar to D'Nealian....it doesn't bother him at all.

 

I remember being a new homeschooler and sweating all the small stuff. This is one of those small things that I consider nothing to worry about.

[tinkgumby]

What style of handwriting do they use now?

 

My older son has learned D'Nealian in 1st grade, and my son in K is just doing regular print. I like the look of D'Nealian and how it transitions to cursive, but maybe I am just sweating the small stuff! Thanks! (:

[Pensguys]

He has some handwriting problems, but it is just a regular no font plain old print. Same with my older son.

[Susan Wise Bauer]

Would it be good/possible/make sense to use WWE for 1-4 and then go into CW? I've been planning on using CW all along, but now, of course, you've got my interest with WWE!

 

I think that would be a good plan. :001_smile:

 

SWB

[Susan Wise Bauer]

I was planning on having my boys use D'Nealian manuscript for copywork and handwriting this fall, but I love the look of WWE and workbook. Is it too confusing if the workbook examples are in one style and I want them to write in another? Or maybe I should give up on D'Nealian entirely??? I'm open to suggestions! (:

 

You know, I wanted to use D'Nealian for my boys too, but I ended up with a couple of literalists...they wanted their handwriting to look like what was in the books they read. They used to go off in corners and write in manuscript, so I finally gave up.

 

Having said that...I think D'Nealian is a great system. You have three options. You can tell them to copy the workbook examples but use their D'Nealian style (they may be able to do this without trouble). You can copy the examples out yourself in D'Nealian for them (they're not too long). Or you can change over to a continuous stroke handwriting program that looks more like standard manuscript. All three are good options.

 

SWB

[Jumping In Puddles]

Just to be clear,

 

If I plan on using Writing With Ease in 1st grade, then do I need another writing/grammar program like FLL, or is WWE a complete program?

[Guest]

You will need a grammar program. WWE is the writing portion only.

[Strawberry Queen]

You need a grammar program to go with WWE. We're almost finished FLL1+2 and we've loved it. I'll use it again in the fall for the second time.

 

HTH

[kimmyandgracie]

I have a ds13 who has a learning disability in language. He is reading on about a 4th grade reading level and he can copy a verse of scripture without much difficulty (he is able to do the copying, but it takes him a while). We have not really attempted dictation. He is still struggling with narration. He can do a 3-4 sentence oral narration from a section of a chapter from SOTW, but he requires several leading questions and assistance in organizing his sentences. This year, he did R&S grammar 2 with minimal to moderate assistance and he is through the majority of the book. I am wondering if FLL and WWE could be a good fit for him. If so, what level would you suggest as an appropriate starting place for him?

Thanks in advance for your time.

[KCR's Mom]

We heard you might have had a flu battle - hope everyone is well now! I had posted this a few weeks ago and haven't seen a response. Can you please help? Thank you!!!!

 

Hello! Our dd will be 6 in June. With help from OPG' date=' she has been reading since she was 3, and she is fluent well beyond grade level. We expect to finish FLL-1 in May. Her handwriting is probably more on target for this age, and we have not been doing a formal program in this area.

 

So.... when we start WWE, we'll likely be into FLL-2 but she won't have a real comfort level with handwriting yet. Could you please advise where we should start WWE - level 1 or 2?

 

Many, many thanks - WTM truly inspired us to begin our HS journey, and your work continues to be a foundation and source of encouragement for us. :)[/quote']