The Complete Writer: Writing with Ease (WWE) -- All separate threads merged here

[mamato3 all-boy boys]

I'm in a similar situation with my 3rd grader still having problems with narrations. I'm going to fly through as many of the 2nd grade narrating exercises *as he needs* and then start 3rd grade all together when I feel he's ready. We may end up doing all the 2nd grade narrations, but my hope is that he'll catch on quickly and we'll only need to spend several weeks on it.

 

Barring any additional wisdom from the HIve -- ans after thinking about it some more -- I'm inclined to give him dictation daily at a 10 word level (-ish) and progress up to the 20 word level; when he can "pass" the year 3 mastery, we'll dive full on into year 4 material. Narrations are a regular part of our homeschooling at this point, so I don't feel like we'll be missing anything in waiting to start WWE full on in October/ November.

 

I am glad I've got a couple other kids waiting in the wings that I can use WWE from beginning to end.

[holdinon]

I saw/read somewhere that you would not want to start WWE with a non-or beginner reader....

 

My dd7 is not a fluent reader (she *can* read "Frog and Toad" type-ish books; however, it is a struggle. She still takes a l-o-n-g time to sound out each word.--So is that considered a "beginning reader"? Should I wait till she's more fluent? I'm thinking *not* (as that could take forever :001_huh:). But I wanted to ask those who know more about it....

 

I was planning on beginning WWE with her this year (until I saw the recommendation not to start with a beginner reader), but haven't even ordered yet, so I don't have the book yet to see what it says about it.

 

I'm ordering it (next week) for dd9 anyway, so I guess I can just wait to read it, but I'm trying to work out (finish) scheduling/planning this weekend Dh is taking the kiddos camping --I will actually have some free time:hurray:....Anyway, I'd like to go ahead and decide if I'm going to use it with her or just dd9.

 

Thanks!

[WABeth]

I saw/read somewhere that you would not want to start WWE with a non-or beginner reader....

 

In the beginning of WWE, Susan says to begin the first grade section a child should be able to read simple three and four letter words and form all their letters and numbers in writing. So, it isn't necessary to be a completely fluent reader to begin. HTH

[joy]

Both my 3rd and 4th graders are not up to level in dictation. They both did fine on the year end evaulations for narriations. This makes sense to me because we have been doing narriations all along (they were both a bit wordy though), but I did copywork with both of them last year and not dictation.

 

I couldn't decide where to place them either, but I think I have a solution. I started at the beginning of 1st grade and am using the narriation exercises with copywork of the sentence I write down. I have been doing one a day and moving through first grade just going over the samples she gives in the book.

 

My purpose is to make sure there are no missing links --they are quickly able to progress through and I think we will be to the end of second grade in no time. I will at that point start my daughter there and when I get through a quick trot through third grade I will start my son on schedule.

 

THey are both much happier. When I gave them the 2nd/3rd grade year end assessments they were stressed --showing me we do, indeed, need to go back and at least touch on the basics.

 

I hope this makes sense and helps someone else.

[sted]

This question is for those of you who already own WWE. I will be ordering it soon and want to order the appropriate workbook. Could someone summarize the difference between Levels 1 and 2 so I know which workbook I should purchase?

 

Thanks,

Shannon

[Mallory]

Quote from WWE

 

Before moving to Year Two, the student should be able to copy a ten-word sentance without error, accurately answer questions about a passage approximately four to five paragraphs in lentgh, and answer the question "What is one thing you remember about the passage?" with a complete sentance. Feel free to give some help, but if the student is frustrated by any of these assignments, spend some additional time working on copywork or narration before moving on to Year Two.

 

 

And to be honest the two copywork exercises in the mastery evaluation of Year One are much longer then 10 words- the first is 24 words and the second is 25 words. They should be able to spell the words correctly and use the same punctuation as the example.

 

For questions/narrations, the key seems to be forming complete sentances on thier own.

 

If you child has a hard time copying with the right punctuation and capital letters, and if they struggle with making complete senances, then you need level 1.

 

In the first week of Year 2 they start dictation, so if your child is not ready for that, then you should start with Year 1.

If your child is close to completing the Year 1 skills, then you may not need the workbook. You would just spend a few weeks "catching up" to the Year 2 skills.

[blaineamy]

?

[Lovedtodeath]

?

 

Writing With Ease, the newest release at www.Peacehillpress.com

[HappyGrace]

I'm confused-I haven't looked into WWE at all until today, as a way to try and streamline. I thought from the sample it had everything there for you, but from Maisy's great schedule she made, it looks like you have to find your own. Which is right?

[momtolgd]

I don't have my copy of WWE yet (it's on it's way!), but I believe that if you don't use the workbooks, you have to find your own passages. To have it all there for you, you just buy the workbooks!

 

Someone else feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that! :D

[nukeswife]

That's correct. If you have the text only you will need to make up most of your own copywork and narrations. If you get the workbook it will all be planned out for you. The text only gives the first week of a given section in that year. For example my ds will be doing year 2 and they give me the first week's copywork and dictation, then for weeks 2-10 they give me a listing of the types of things to look for in the copywork and dictation passages but it's up to me to find them. It then continues in this pattern through the year. We're starting school next week so I'm going to have him use the year 1 workbook with my dd until the year 2 workbook comes out then we'll switch over.

 

Hope this makes sense

[HappyGrace]

so far! It looks like if I wanted to do years 3 and 4 at this point, I'd have to buy the text and find the selections myself, right? Wahh!

[Maisy]

and I thought, with your permission, I could pass it along to anyone else who is using the text this year without the workbook. The chart is really just page number references, the FLL grammar focus items, and paraphrased notes to myself.

 

Here is a sample of each chart:

 

http://www.notthebestmommy.blogspot.com/

 

I'll will wait for your response before passing it along to anyone who has asked.

 

Thanks for all your hard work! I'm really looking forward to our FLL/WWE combo this year.

[wyomom]

I was going to wait until Aug so I could order both workbook 1 and 2 but then I realized I was confusing workbook 2 with VOLUME 2. I have a 1st grader to use workbook 1 with this year and then I was thinking I could use workbook 2 with my 5th grader but I just realized I probably need VOLUME 2 for her not the workbook 2. Is this right?

 

Is the workbook 2 coming out in August a follow up to workbook 1 or similar to 2nd grade writing? This would be more of a workbook I need for my 1st grader next year right?

 

So now I am thinking what I need is the WWE text and workbook 1 for my 1st grader and the writing cd for my 5th and 7th grade dc. Does that sound right?

 

Sorry for my thick head today, I just didn't want to spend the money on a book I won't be able to use this year. Things are getting tight and I wanted to have enough left over to buy an art program for my dc this year. They are so excited about the options we have been looking at.

 

Thanks, Julie

[HappyGrace]

nt

[neesek]

I think that I am going to start my 3rd grade ds in Level 2 and hope to move through it quickly. He has many of the skills, but could use more practice with summarizing the narratives. I see that in Level 3, students start reading their own narratives, but in Level 2, the parent is reading them aloud. My ds is a strong reader and could easily read them himself. Do you think that is ok to do in Level 2 or is there a reason that I should still be reading them to him?

Thanks!

[nukeswife]

I was going to wait until Aug so I could order both workbook 1 and 2 but then I realized I was confusing workbook 2 with VOLUME 2. I have a 1st grader to use workbook 1 with this year and then I was thinking I could use workbook 2 with my 5th grader but I just realized I probably need VOLUME 2 for her not the workbook 2. Is this right?

 

Is the workbook 2 coming out in August a follow up to workbook 1 or similar to 2nd grade writing? This would be more of a workbook I need for my 1st grader next year right?

 

So now I am thinking what I need is the WWE text and workbook 1 for my 1st grader and the writing cd for my 5th and 7th grade dc. Does that sound right?

 

Sorry for my thick head today, I just didn't want to spend the money on a book I won't be able to use this year. Things are getting tight and I wanted to have enough left over to buy an art program for my dc this year. They are so excited about the options we have been looking at.

 

Thanks, Julie

 

Julie,

Workbook two is the laid out plans for Year 2 in the WWE text. So it would be what your 1st grader would need next year if you don't want to plan most of your own dictation and narration etc. Unless your fifth grader would need to be moved back to Year 2 you won't need it. For example my son who will be in 4th grade this year will do Year 2 because he's really had no exposure to writing. I was never sure how to teach it.

 

HTH answer your question

[wyomom]

Thank you for clearing that up for me. I thought that was how it went but for the longest time I was confusing volume 2 and workbook 2. It takes awhile to clear my foggy head sometimes.

 

Julie

[nukeswife]

Julie,

 

No problem I'm glad I could help.

[SkiMom]

My 6th grade son struggles with narration. He is ADHD and has always had major trouble doing narrations. We used SOTW for history and it always was very painful and traumatic doing those narrations. Because he has trouble with narrations he also has trouble with the first writing skill...taking thoughts and putting them into words. He has been doing narration and dictation since Kindergarten, and is pretty good at dictation, but terrible at narration. So, I purchased WWE and had my son do the first mastery evaluation narration exercise for year one-week 36 (pg 66-68). He got three questions wrong which tells me that he really needs to start in Year One.

 

My questions come from the fact that my son will also be doing R&S English 6 which will be teaching him outlining which is a logic stage writing skill. Will this combination of WWE (grammar stage skills) and R&S English (logic stage skills) be messing him up? Will he really be able to do logic stage writing without being solid with those grammar stage skills first? Will doing the R&S exercises be a waste of time at this point?

 

Any advise is appreciated. Thanks.

[Quiver0f10]

I'm sure this has been asked, but this thread is soooo long lol. If you use WWE and FLL do you skip some of the excersizes in FLL, such as narrations? Thanks!

[Lovedtodeath]

I'm sure this has been asked, but this thread is soooo long lol. If you use WWE and FLL do you skip some of the excersizes in FLL, such as narrations? Thanks!

 

"First Language Lessons does include dictation and narration exercises with some lessons. If you are using Writing With Ease, you may choose to skip these exercises in First Language Lessons (especially for a child whose fine motor skills are still developing). However, if your student needs additional practice in dictation or narration, the exercises in First Language Lessons can act as a supplement to Writing With Ease."

 

quote from Peacehillpress.com

[Quiver0f10]

"First Language Lessons does include dictation and narration exercises with some lessons. If you are using Writing With Ease, you may choose to skip these exercises in First Language Lessons (especially for a child whose fine motor skills are still developing). However, if your student needs additional practice in dictation or narration, the exercises in First Language Lessons can act as a supplement to Writing With Ease."

 

quote from Peacehillpress.com

 

Thanks!

[LadyR]

I just received my copies of WWE text and Workbook 1. I glanced through several lessons last night and found that the workbook repeats the text of the textbook, having all the narrations and questions, etc. Could I have gotten away with just purchasing the workbook?

[whitestavern]

I purchased both as well and definitely think the workbook is enough. I'm trying to sell the hard cover already :(

[LadyR]

I wonder if the workbooks for years 2-4 will also have the same text as the book. If so, then I will try to sell my book also. :(

[Guest KimberlyTMP]

Maisy,

 

I love the chart you posted on your website to help you with WWE 3 and 4. Would you mind sharing your selections for narrations and dictations? I'm REALLY struggling with putting together my own selections.

 

I know there were others who requested help in this area throughout this thread. If there is anyone else out there who would be willing to share your planned narrations, I'm sure many would benefit!

 

Is there any new information on when the workbooks for levels 3 and 4 will be ready for release?

 

Thanks for your help,

 

Kimberly

[Guest KimberlyTMP]

Sorry! I'm posting again to make sure I get email notifications when someone answers my post! This is my first day to post on the forum!

[JenniferB]

Kimberly,

 

For narrations I'm using my daughter's readings, including poetry, literature, and history. What I do is I give her reading assignments and a digital recorder, which I bought off of Amazon.com. When she goes to her room to read I tell her to explain back what she has read into the recorder. This has been working well so far. Her narrations are getting better and better. When we first started a few weeks ago, she was rambling on and on with a lot of "ands" and "buts" and "ums" and too many details, which were insignificant to the main point. After listening to her recordings I would give her some instruction on improvement. First I had her work on eliminating the ands, buts, and ums. Next I asked her to think of her sentences before pressing the record button, because I could tell that she was recording & thinking on the fly. Whenever I see an area of weakness I give her further instruction to better her narrations. I have her narrate on everything she reads, which is several different books a day. I use the Ambleside Online Year 3 readings and their suggestions of short varied readings with narration on each reading.

 

For dictation I picked a book from Yesterday's Classics called "Granny's Wonderful Chair", and I've decided to do dictation on the entire first chapter for this term, but in small increments 2 days per week. I took the idea from Ambleside Online & Charlotte Mason to dictate an entire piece of literature bit by bit. So, I read 1 or 2 sentences, or a portion of a sentence, depending on the length, and I have her dictate after 3 readings. The Ambleside folks say to have the child study the piece before dictating, so that the child can memorize any words they don't know how to spell. I thought this was a good idea, since my daughter struggles with spelling and I have to watch her like a hawk to make sure I catch a misspelled word before it's fully formed on her paper. I haven't tried this yet, but I think I will try it this week. In any case, I like the idea of dictating large portions bit by bit, because it gives her more of the full effect of writing good literature instead of random sentences from different sources.

 

We have also begun to practice dictating her own narrations from her recordings. She has done 1 paper this way, but she sure didn't like it. She likes dictation much better when it's from "Granny's Wonderful Chair."

 

Hope this helps anyone who is doing WWE level 3.

 

-Jennifer

[Guest carolynf]

I have a 6th grader who has been struggling with writing. Based on the evaluations in WWE I've decided to start her at Level 2. She can do short dictations, but has trouble with longer ones. She has no trouble answering the questions from readings but is not able to create a short summary, she tends to retell the whole story.

 

My question is, what is the best way to catch up with where she should be? If I progress through the book at 1 level per year, then she wouldn't finish until the end of 8th grade. Is it better to try to do all the lessons more quickly or just not do the full 36 weeks at each level? Any advice would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

Carolyn

[Mallory]

I would just keep on each level as long as she needs it.

 

For example in year 2 weeks 1-10, is the same level of dictation and narration. I would guess she won't need 10 weeks to be ready to narrate a longer passage, and do dictation for a longer sentance.

 

I wouldn't worry about keeping on track for the specific grammar topics if I was working through it with a child that much older.

 

Of course you could do more then one week each week, doing two weeks each week, so that a copywork/dictation and a narration are done each day would probably be fine, but I would be more worried about learning each skill than getting through each of the 36 weeks.

[Guest rhetse4kids]

Dear Susan,

 

I just wanted to thank you for writing a book on teaching writing to students with much ease and enjoyment! We look forward to the installment of middle and high school level!

 

Mom of Four

[Guest rhetse4kids]

Dear Susan,

 

I just wanted to thank you for Writing With Ease for grades 1-4. We look forward to the installments of middle and high school level!

 

Mom of Four

[dachapman]

Dear Susan,

 

I've been using WWE Year two and am very happy with it. I'm looking forward to the workbooks for year 3 & 4. Do you know when those might be available?

 

Thanks!

Dee

 

Volume 2 will cover logic stage (5-8) and Volume 3 will cover high school (9-12). No pub schedule yet (sorry!). But you have good options available for logic and rhetoric-stage options--it's the development of those basic writing skills that I find REALLY lacking in writing programs.

 

Yes, the books expand on the writing CD, giving much more detailed year-by-year breakdowns of what skills to teach when and how.

 

The writing book needs a grammar program to go along w/it, but you wouldn't do the R&S writing (or any other writing program) along with it.

 

HTH

[JennyL]

Hello, I am new to this thread. My son will be in 3rd grade next year, and I am really interested in this book. My question is, what level of workbook should I get for him? We have been doing FLL, so he has been doing copywork, narration and dictation for me. Any input would be appreciated. :001_smile:

[Guest rondalm]

Hi all!

 

I'm new to this forum so please forgive me if I'm not doing this correctly. :) I've used the search feature but came up with a bazillion pages, so I thought one of you might be able to help me. Has it been announced when the level 3 and 4 workbooks for Writing with Ease will be available for purchase? I've just discovered this wonderful book and plan to use it with my sons!

 

Thanks so much for your help!

God Bless,

Ronda

Mom of 6, ages 6 to 23, in Asheville, NC

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/ronda

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As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!

"Do not let the endless succession of small things crowd great

ideals out of sight and out of mind" ~Charlotte Mason

[Annabel Lee]

I need your help. My newly-turned-8 yr.old, 2nd grade son just completed week 4, day 4 of WWE 2 workbook (we started in level 2 b/c he's in 2nd grade). Usually when I ask him the questions that come after the reading passage, he either answers incorrectly, guesses, or simply says he doesn't know. I have to backtrack into the passage again and re-read to him the sentences or paragraph that the answer is in, and then it's like pulling teeth to get him to repeat it in a full sentence. He becomes so frustrated that he just doesn't even want to continue on with it - he sits there slumping, pouting, banging his head (not enough to hurt himself) against the back of the chair, etc. This from my bright son who has always been a fast learner. He'd love it if I would accept "Ya, that, what you just read. That's my answer." as his answer. Today's focus was on trying to find the central idea. He was lost. I was lost as to how to further help him. I have printed out your article titled "Tips for Narration", and I have tried modeling for him what I'm looking for. Dictation is very difficult for him. He wants to begin writing as I talk and detests the rule that he must repeat the sentence to me before writing. I see the importance of it, so I insist that he cooperates. However, today I had to dictate the single sentence 5 times for him to get it. Part of this was because I stop his memory 'flow' to correct misspelled words immediately. Today was the first time I allowed him to review the dictation first for the purpose of knowing how to spell unfamiliar words. I don't think he reviewed very well.

 

His narration (which wasn't given all at once, I had to keep asking more questions to pull it out of him) was this:

"One time there was a guy named Dr. Dolittle. The parrot knows that Jip can talk with his ears, nose, feet, and tail."

That was it. That's all he could give, after much questioning, reminding, prodding, etc. So I finally just read to him all the example sentences on page 20 to give him an idea of what I had been looking for. Then I used the single-sentence narration example from page 20 in the workbook for his dictation.

 

My concern is this: narration and dictation seem to be like this for him about 90% of the time (we do it for SOTW too). It seems like since he isn't 'getting it', it will only become harder for him if I just move on to the next lesson. Should I back up and do WWE level 1 with him even though he'll technically be a 3rd grader this fall?

 

I apologize for being so long-winded. I agree completely w/ your ideas on writing, and *I* like WWE, but I really need some advice on how to get past this roadblock with my son. Thanks!

[TN Mama]

I am obviously not Susan, but maybe I can offer some help. My daughter is also a second grader, but had no experience with narration, copywork & dictation. We started this year with WWE level 1. I looked through the workbook and after we completed several weeks of level 1, I picked various weeks to work through. For example, say we worked through 10 weeks (week 1 - 10) and then we maybe did week 12, week 16, week 19, and so on. We started WWE 2 six weeks ago and are working through this book in its entirety. It isn't easy for her, but she has made great strides. I am loving WWE.

[Lori in MS]

I need your help. My newly-turned-8 yr.old, 2nd grade son just completed week 4, day 4 of WWE 2 workbook (we started in level 2 b/c he's in 2nd grade). Usually when I ask him the questions that come after the reading passage, he either answers incorrectly, guesses, or simply says he doesn't know. I have to backtrack into the passage again and re-read to him the sentences or paragraph that the answer is in, and then it's like pulling teeth to get him to repeat it in a full sentence. He becomes so frustrated that he just doesn't even want to continue on with it - he sits there slumping, pouting, banging his head (not enough to hurt himself) against the back of the chair, etc. This from my bright son who has always been a fast learner. He'd love it if I would accept "Ya, that, what you just read. That's my answer." as his answer. Today's focus was on trying to find the central idea. He was lost. I was lost as to how to further help him. I have printed out your article titled "Tips for Narration", and I have tried modeling for him what I'm looking for. Dictation is very difficult for him. He wants to begin writing as I talk and detests the rule that he must repeat the sentence to me before writing. I see the importance of it, so I insist that he cooperates. However, today I had to dictate the single sentence 5 times for him to get it. Part of this was because I stop his memory 'flow' to correct misspelled words immediately. Today was the first time I allowed him to review the dictation first for the purpose of knowing how to spell unfamiliar words. I don't think he reviewed very well.

 

His narration (which wasn't given all at once, I had to keep asking more questions to pull it out of him) was this:

"One time there was a guy named Dr. Dolittle. The parrot knows that Jip can talk with his ears, nose, feet, and tail."

That was it. That's all he could give, after much questioning, reminding, prodding, etc. So I finally just read to him all the example sentences on page 20 to give him an idea of what I had been looking for. Then I used the single-sentence narration example from page 20 in the workbook for his dictation.

 

My concern is this: narration and dictation seem to be like this for him about 90% of the time (we do it for SOTW too). It seems like since he isn't 'getting it', it will only become harder for him if I just move on to the next lesson. Should I back up and do WWE level 1 with him even though he'll technically be a 3rd grader this fall?

 

I apologize for being so long-winded. I agree completely w/ your ideas on writing, and *I* like WWE, but I really need some advice on how to get past this roadblock with my son. Thanks!

 

I would start him in WWE 1, don't worry about his grade. After doing the 1st level he will be prepared to move on. I did levels 3 and 4 with my 5th and 6th graders. It's okay:001_smile:

[Colleen in NS]

I would start him in WWE 1, don't worry about his grade. After doing the 1st level he will be prepared to move on. I did levels 3 and 4 with my 5th and 6th graders. It's okay:001_smile:

 

:iagree:

 

Level 1 will really help him get the "hang" of narration, and give him practice in seeing words before he copies them, preparing him for dictation later. As you get going, you may start to see where you can accelerate him, too, as he gets more confident in his skills. Don't worry about the levels matching with grade level - I whizzed my ds through this book last year when he was 10. Lots of other posters have done the same thing - started their older kids on WWE.

[Annabel Lee]

Thanks for the help. I agree it doesn't make sense to push forward when he isn't getting it. I think part of the problem is that I don't get how to further help him. The books give example child answers, but don't say what to do if something like this happens. I've told him things like "Try to hold the words in your mind, make a picture of them in there, and/or hold a sound recording of them in there", but I don't know what else to say to help him. I don't know how to elaborate on the instructions and tackle it from any other angle - besides saying something like what I just said above. I think I may need more help figuring out how to help him figure it out, kwim?

I'm off to get WWE 1 for him (I'd have to get it for my littlest one for next year anyhow). I still feel nervous about what to do if I run into this again w/ him though. I know WWE (the workbook anyhow) is as scripted and hold-your-hand as possible, but I find it hard to think of other ways to explain what it is he's supposed to do. Does anyone have any help for me as the teacher to go at it from more than 1 angle?

[Colleen in NS]

Usually when I ask him the questions that come after the reading passage, he either answers incorrectly, guesses, or simply says he doesn't know. I have to backtrack into the passage again and re-read to him the sentences or paragraph that the answer is in, and then it's like pulling teeth to get him to repeat it in a full sentence. He becomes so frustrated that he just doesn't even want to continue on with it - he sits there slumping, pouting, banging his head (not enough to hurt himself) against the back of the chair, etc.

 

Today's focus was on trying to find the central idea. He was lost. I was lost as to how to further help him.

 

Dictation is very difficult for him. He wants to begin writing as I talk and detests the rule that he must repeat the sentence to me before writing. I see the importance of it, so I insist that he cooperates. However, today I had to dictate the single sentence 5 times for him to get it. Part of this was because I stop his memory 'flow' to correct misspelled words immediately. Today was the first time I allowed him to review the dictation first for the purpose of knowing how to spell unfamiliar words. I don't think he reviewed very well.

 

My concern is this: narration and dictation seem to be like this for him about 90% of the time (we do it for SOTW too). It seems like since he isn't 'getting it', it will only become harder for him if I just move on to the next lesson. Should I back up and do WWE level 1 with him even though he'll technically be a 3rd grader this fall?

 

I don't get how to further help him. The books give example child answers, but don't say what to do if something like this happens. I've told him things like "Try to hold the words in your mind, make a picture of them in there, and/or hold a sound recording of them in there", but I don't know what else to say to help him. I don't know how to elaborate on the instructions and tackle it from any other angle - besides saying something like what I just said above. I think I may need more help figuring out how to help him figure it out, kwim?

I'm off to get WWE 1 for him (I'd have to get it for my littlest one for next year anyhow). I still feel nervous about what to do if I run into this again w/ him though. I know WWE (the workbook anyhow) is as scripted and hold-your-hand as possible, but I find it hard to think of other ways to explain what it is he's supposed to do. Does anyone have any help for me as the teacher to go at it from more than 1 angle?

 

Boy, do I ever understand the lost feeling on how to come at teaching something from a different angle! So, I'm mostly responding again, to bump this up, and hopefully get you some more help on the teaching aspect. Maybe Susan will see this thread - she used to check on it periodically.

 

Also, I just combed through WWE 1. Here's what I found, maybe it will give you a breath of relief? The first three weeks, the narration is from just TWO paragraphs of reading. You are shown how to do the comprehension questions (and if you are getting the workbooks, you'll have the questions all there so you don't have to figure that out). So, answering the comp. questions on a two-paragraphs reading should be a whole lot easier for an inexperienced child than trying to answer questions (and getting lost) on the four-paragraphs reading he is currently doing in year 2. Then, in WWE 1, weeks 4-10, you are instructed to use THREE-paragraphs readings. Three SHORT paragraphs. Again, easy to extract info. from after weeks 1 to 3, and plenty of weeks in which to practice. Weeks 12-19 is three-slightly-longer-paragraphs readings, weeks 21-27 is three longer or four shorter-paragraphs readings, and it's not until weeks 29-35 that the readings grow to four or five brief paragraphs. So, the progression of reading length in WWE grows gradually, giving you a chance to build his ability to narrate.

 

AND, the great thing about WWE is that you can slow down - if you think, after WWE 1 weeks 1 to 3, that he still needs to practice narrating from two-paragraphs readings and answering questions, you can do that - just go find two-paragraphs readings and make up questions - by then you hopefully will have a better idea of what types of questions to ask (from what I can tell, they are who, what, where, when, why, and how questions, that lead the child to find a storyline in a story, or details from a descriptive reading - like what you'd find in a science or history reading). After you think he has mastered the skills in weeks 1 to 3 (even if it takes longer than three weeks), move on to weeks 4-10 skills for however long he needs. You might start finding that he is catching on quickly, too, once he gains some confidence and skill that he seems to be missing right now.

 

Oh, and about dictation being difficult - WWE 1 has kids doing copywork - maybe he just needs to practice copywork for awhile, so he gets used to seeing words and confident at writing them correctly, before trying to keep words in his head via dictation? My dd8.5 is the same way with dictation right now (except she's had a couple of years of copywork, so I'm gently helping her get used to dictation) - she wants to start writing it right away, instead of listening a couple of times and repeating it. She also struggles with spelling, so I correct her along the way, and that is hard for her. I just keep telling her how to spell, and reassure her I will help her along in the dictation. I'm thinking that as she gets more used to dictation, and gets more comfortable with spelling, that she won't panic as much. She *is* improving.

 

One more idea....instead of letting him review the whole dictation (if you decide to stick with dictation instead of copywork), how about just writing down unfamiliar words on a separate piece of paper, and telling him, "Here are some words you might need to know how to spell for your dictation - you may copy them when you get to writing that part of your dictation." When I remember, I do this for my daughter if I think she is going to have trouble - that way, she doesn't get as distracted by my voice correcting her - she only has to look at the paper.

 

You might also consider dropping the narration for SOTW for now, until he gets comfortable with the process in WWE. I think WWE is enough to get writing skills on track (you can always use SOTW material for WWE assignments, too).

 

hth

 

:lurk5:

Edited April 10, 2009 by Colleen in NS

[Colleen in NS]

I'm looking forward to the workbooks for year 3 & 4. Do you know when those might be available?

 

Has it been announced when the level 3 and 4 workbooks for Writing with Ease will be available for purchase?

 

I don't know the answer to this, but have you checked the Peace Hill Press site? I think that would be the most updated place to find your answer.

[Colleen in NS]

Hello, I am new to this thread. My son will be in 3rd grade next year, and I am really interested in this book. My question is, what level of workbook should I get for him? We have been doing FLL, so he has been doing copywork, narration and dictation for me. Any input would be appreciated. :001_smile:

 

Did you ever get your question answered elsewhere?

 

My suggestion would be to get hold of the textbook and do one of the placement tests at the end of each level. Or else, I'd say if he's been doing copywork, dictation, and narration, and going into 3rd grade, then do either level 2 or level 3. But those placement tests are you best bet for figuring it out. Maybe your library has a copy of the textbook? Or a friend?

[Annabel Lee]

Thanks for all the help. I think I just needed a shoulder to lean on too, b/c of feeling frustrated over having wasted so much time struggling w/ level 2. We could have been more than halfway through w/ level one, instead of deciding to start it, by now. *sigh* Oh well, better late than never, my grandmother always said.

 

Fwiw to anyone else reading who may have or may in the future encounter the same speedbump, I got out my "Tips for Narration" article by Susan and re-read it today. I had forgotten portions of it. It reminded me to go aaaalllllllll the way back to square 1 when nothing is clicking. Today I had my ds narrate/summarize 2 sentences to illustrate what info. is important and what is just details that can be left out. I'll also be working with him on how to substitute fewer words for longer phrases to summarize. We'll be doing these baby steps for at least a couple weeks until he has it down pat. Since my K'er would be starting WWE in the fall, I may have him sit in for these short little lessons too. I see now that preparation even before level 1 couldn't hurt.

Since this means we won't be doing much actual writing, I may assign some letter-writing and teach him about indentation and what a paragraph is, etc. Just to ease my guilt over not producing any writing. :)

 

Thanks again for all the help, this forum is the BEST!

[TC5]

I've spent the weekend reading all the WWE sample pages and all of this thread. I still have questions. Sorry this is long, but if you have the time to help, I'd appreciate it.

 

Background:

My 6yo K'er son is about 105 pages into OPG and is doing well, although we need to work on fluency. I am getting ready to buy FLL 1/2 for him. For penmanship, he has been writing in a journal, usually 2-4 lines about 3 days each week. He tells me what he wants to say, I write it, and he copies it. He asks to do this, and I do like the idea of his writing being something he will treasure when he is older. But it looks like I should not push this if he loses interest. (Last night, he wrote his first sentence on his own, by the way. I was sitting at my computer reading this thread, and he brought me a piece of paper with this, "I WONT A GOET.") Also, he does narrations occasionally for history (1-2 sentences, but only the scripture stories, because he's already familiar with them and rarely even listens to the other lessons) and science (3-5 sentences, as he enjoys science more). I have not done any dictation with him yet.

 

Q1) Do I need to make any copies from FLL 1/2, or is it like OPG? (I'd like to get the hardcover for durability if I don't need to make any copies.)

 

Now I am wondering whether I should get WWE, as well. As I see it, these are my options:

 

A. Continue OPG to the end. Start FLL 1/2 once he's finished OPG L140, as advised at the Peace Hill website. Do all the optional activities in FLL (narrations, copywork). And add extra narrations and copywork from history, science, and lit.

 

B. As above but skip all optional narrations and copywork in FLL 1/2, and instead use WWE. Use the main WWE text only, adding narration and copywork from the content subjects.

 

C. As in Option B, but use a WWE workbook, and do not do any narration or copywork from the content subjects.

 

Q2) In Option C, do I really not need to do any narration from history, science, and lit? Is it wise to omit these? Or should I use the workbook, which is very appealing, and still do narrations, at least, from content areas at another time of day? Is Option A just as good?

 

Q3) Based on the background info above, do you think I should start with WWE Level 2? Obviously, I should get the main text and have him do the evaluations, but I'd appreciate any ideas you have.

 

Background:

My 8yo 3rd-grade son (who was public schooled through 2nd grade) doesn't enjoy copywork and doesn't copy carefully so always makes mistakes. It may be that I just need to give him very short sentences and/or sit with him to correct him right away and let him know this is important. He narrates well, dictating half a page to one and a half pages after most history lessons (he doesn't want to write this on his own). He does not necessarily pick out the key ideas, but does well at telling the whole story. I think I had misunderstood the goal of narration. I have started a little bit of dictation, but he doesn't do much of this yet. He is a very good writer when he wants to be (creative stories and science narrations that he initiates, generally), although his spelling and mechanics are not flawless. He writes a couple of letters each month, as well. Along with the grammar, he does the writing exercises in Rod and Staff English 3 without complaint (he has commented more than once about what a good book it is and how much he's learning), although he detested Writing Strands 3 (for some reason I thought he needed both. We were both relieved when i realized he didn't). We're planning to use Rod and Staff English 4 next year.

 

Q4) I've seen some people here say they do supplement the writing in R&S, though, with another writing program. Is this important to do, if not absolutely necessary? Will we get a wide variety of writing assignments if we continue with R&S?

 

Q5) Is there a need for this son to use WWE? Below are some quotes from SWB from earlier in this thread.

 

--If the third grader writes fluently and easily, you probably don't need WWE.

--if the child can copy well and doesn't struggle too much with the physical act of writing, start with Level 2; if not, start with Level 1.

--The purpose of narration and dictation is to help students develop basic skills in getting words down on paper. If your 9 and/or 11 yo can tell you what they want to write, out loud, using complete well-formed sentences, they don't need to do narration. If they can take those sentences and put them down on paper without struggling with spelling and punctuation, and without asking you constantly to help them remember what they're trying to write, they don't need to do dictation. If they struggle in either of these areas, they could benefit from the last two years of lessons on WWE.

 

Sometimes my son "writes fluently and easily", but he usually doesn't like to put pencil to paper and has awful handwriting (another can of worms I won't get into) -- except for R&S, which he usually does neatly. This makes me think he may need WWE level 1 or 2 (along with my K'er). But the next quote makes me think he doesn't need narration or dictation to improve his writing at all. I have a case of situational writing ability. This son is very talkative and can write when he wants to. Should I use WWE?

 

(I do have two younger sons, as well, who could use WWE, but I'd rather buy it later if my first two sons aren't going to need it.)

 

Thank you very much if you have read this far, and thank you even more if you can help me!

Teonei

[Colleen in NS]

Q1) Do I need to make any copies from FLL 1/2, or is it like OPG? (I'd like to get the hardcover for durability if I don't need to make any copies.)

 

Now I am wondering whether I should get WWE, as well. As I see it, these are my options:

 

A. Continue OPG to the end. Start FLL 1/2 once he's finished OPG L140, as advised at the Peace Hill website. Do all the optional activities in FLL (narrations, copywork). And add extra narrations and copywork from history, science, and lit.

 

B. As above but skip all optional narrations and copywork in FLL 1/2, and instead use WWE. Use the main WWE text only, adding narration and copywork from the content subjects.

 

C. As in Option B, but use a WWE workbook, and do not do any narration or copywork from the content subjects.

 

Q2) In Option C, do I really not need to do any narration from history, science, and lit? Is it wise to omit these? Or should I use the workbook, which is very appealing, and still do narrations, at least, from content areas at another time of day? Is Option A just as good?

 

Q3) Based on the background info above, do you think I should start with WWE Level 2? Obviously, I should get the main text and have him do the evaluations, but I'd appreciate any ideas you have.

 

So...are you ready to keel over after reading this entire thread? :D

 

No, you don't need to make copies from FLL 1/2. It's mostly oral work. And you tell the child what to do for any written work - no copies required.

 

About optional enrichment activities in FLL 1/2 - they are just that, optional for enrichment - not all kids are ready for these things at these at ages 6-8 or so. Anything in FLL that is not under the enrichment section is to demonstrate how to do something, like how to do copywork or how to write quotations or how to put commas in a series or how to conduct a dictation, etc.. But these are, I think, just demonstrations - they show you how to do it, but then you have to flesh it out on a regular basis each week, in the content areas.

 

But this is where WWE comes in really handy - you don't have to make up your own schedule for writing in the content areas each week, it's all done for you, with detailed demonstrations of how to do each activity, for four years. It also (and I don't really know how to explain this well) merges skills - one day you might do a narration, the next day you use part of that narration for dictation work. Eventually it becomes: your child narrates, then takes his narration down as dictation, then he can narrate on his own and dictate his narration from his mind and get it all down on paper by himself. It's brilliant the way it's set up and how it progresses.

 

And, if you use just the textbook, you can just fold in your own history, science, and literature reading, so then you don't have to do a bunch of extra history/science/lit. narrations unless your child wants to - with WWE, he'll be getting the writing practice regularly and systematically. At least, this is what I think - when I got WWE last year, I figured out how it worked and then eliminated a lot of writing I was having my dd do - with ds, it had been a huge CHORE to have him doing a couple of writing activities each day in grades 1 to 4 - he was hating it, and I just decided it was better to do a little bit of writing each day with WWE, because of how it was set up to build each year. It became more important to me to teach my kids the writing skills via WWE than to fill up their history/science/literature notebooks with narrations.

 

So what I do is use FLL for the grammar parts, and I eliminate any copywork/dictation skills that would be covered under WWE. I do keep the FLL copywork that has anything not covered in WWE (WWE does have you incorporate grammar concepts and mechanics learned in FLL).

 

I didn't use OPGR so I can't comment on that, but I can say that I started FLL at the beginning of Grade 1 and did 3 lessons a week.

 

I would start him on WWE level 1. It has copywork the whole year, but it would solidify his copywork skills and give him another year to work on penmanship before trying to combine that with dictation. Also, if he has only done occasional narrations, the narration work in this level will be a good foundation of regular narration work. Plus, there's no need to rush him into level 2 if he's going into grade 1.

 

Q4) I've seen some people here say they do supplement the writing in R&S, though, with another writing program. Is this important to do, if not absolutely necessary? Will we get a wide variety of writing assignments if we continue with R&S?

 

Q5) Is there a need for this son to use WWE? Below are some quotes from SWB from earlier in this thread.

 

--If the third grader writes fluently and easily, you probably don't need WWE.

--if the child can copy well and doesn't struggle too much with the physical act of writing, start with Level 2; if not, start with Level 1.

--The purpose of narration and dictation is to help students develop basic skills in getting words down on paper. If your 9 and/or 11 yo can tell you what they want to write, out loud, using complete well-formed sentences, they don't need to do narration. If they can take those sentences and put them down on paper without struggling with spelling and punctuation, and without asking you constantly to help them remember what they're trying to write, they don't need to do dictation. If they struggle in either of these areas, they could benefit from the last two years of lessons on WWE.

 

Sometimes my son "writes fluently and easily", but he usually doesn't like to put pencil to paper and has awful handwriting (another can of worms I won't get into) -- except for R&S, which he usually does neatly. This makes me think he may need WWE level 1 or 2 (along with my K'er). But the next quote makes me think he doesn't need narration or dictation to improve his writing at all. I have a case of situational writing ability. This son is very talkative and can write when he wants to. Should I use WWE?

 

(I do have two younger sons, as well, who could use WWE, but I'd rather buy it later if my first two sons aren't going to need it.)

 

Thank you very much if you have read this far, and thank you even more if you can help me!

Teonei

 

I like your phrase, situational writing ability - it sums up what I was thinking as I read. If it was my son, I'd use WWE, and I'd probably start with level 1, to solidify his copywork skills - copywork is where he gets to practice in those things you mentioned like spelling and mechanics, yes, with you sitting and correcting as he goes along. I'm wondering, if from public school, is he used to having to produce quantities of pencil marks on paper, without regard to these errors or actual content? The narration exercises in level 1 will help with that, too. They will help him to carefully listen to a short reading, then pick out one thing that was important. Level 2 will start to build on this by helping him sort out a few more important things in passages that are a bit longer. But it's gradual, so he will "get" what he is supposed to do. Or you could do an abbreviated level 1 (one or two weeks out of every section in the level) to solidify his copywork and narration skills, and then start him on level 2.

 

Some people have their kids do long, detailed narrations - I think WWE teaches you to figure out either the main parts of a storyline of a story, or the *important* details of a history/science passage. If you do it WWE style, his narrations will be MUCH shorter, but his ability to find main ideas will increase. You mentioned he struggles with picking out main ideas - WWE will help.

 

If you use WWE for him, you can also eliminate the R&S writing exercises (I'm assuming you still use the grammar exercises in it, though?). You can always pick up the R&S writing exercises in book 5 after he is done WWE 4 (or find another writing program to use, while still using R&S for grammar).

 

Also, if you use WWE, I don't think it's necessary to supplement with another writing program at this point. You are trying to equip them with some basic writing skills for now, before they move on to other skills. It might be useful later (6th? 7th? beyond? I haven't BTDT yet :D) to get a wider variety of skills, but if they can't summarize a reading and get their summary onto paper themselves, those other skills won't be of any use.

 

Next year dd will be in grade 3, and will do WWE 3 along with R&S grammar, but I won't have her do the R&S writing (which I did have ds do, along with all those narrations and dictations.....) because now I know that R&S 5 will still teach those same 3rd and 4th grade writing skills, with a little more layering - she'll be able to pick them up in 5th grade easily after doing WWE.

 

If you can find a copy of WWE at the library or from a friend, have a look through it to see how it works, and look at the evaluations at the end of each year. This will really help you to determine if your kids need it - I think you'll see how it works in fine details on all the skills you are wondering if your kids need or not.

 

Hope something here helps.

[TC5]

Thank you so much, Colleen, for your detailed answer! I am going to get the main WWE text and then decide whether we need the first workbook or whether I can handle implementing the ideas into the content areas. You have been very helpful. :D

Teonei

[Colleen in NS]

for your detailed answer!

 

I'm just a *tiny bit* :lol: of a WWE freak - after four years of struggling to figure out how to implement all the writing suggested in WTM, WWE was a Godsend. You're welcome.:)

[Barefoothomeschooler]

Ok, I have gone through the new (love it btw) TWTM book and see that Rod and Staff is still the highest recomended Grammar/Writing program.

 

I am doing FLL4 in the fall, but will be done at Christmas. My girls are 10 and 11 so they can go through it pretty quickly. I wanted to use WT 1 and 2 with them after that along with the diagraming and outlining recomendations for the logic stage. After using WT1 with my oldest this year I saw the "holes" in our language arts so I got FLL 3 and 4 and now going through WWE 1-4 as review. all that being said, where do you think I should start them in R&S after I finish WT2?

 

I would love your thoughts on this. I would use WWE all the way through, but it doesn't seem that they will be ready in time :-( so I must press on.

 

I might add that I am using Sonlight 5 in the fall. I see that the LA program in combinded with the core by core 7. do you think SL language would be enough?

 

Thanks