mo2 Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 The search is driving me batty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysticmomma Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Me too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypatia. Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 :lurk5: Just wondering the same thing, for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mo2 Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 Well, shoot. You all are no help. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbridgeacademy Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Me too! I'm no help either. Would also like to know where to go in the next couple years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Amanda~ Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 nope. lol. driving me insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paceofnature Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Another one searching without much luck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodland Mist Academy Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Misery loves company. :cheers2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I came hoping for suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Would Critical Thinking from Critical Thinking Press work? I've been thinking about giving The Art of Argument a go. I wish I could get my hands on it to preview before spending the money. We're finishing up Orbiting with Logic, and I don't know what to use after we're done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodland Mist Academy Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Would Critical Thinking from Critical Thinking Press work? I've been thinking about giving The Art of Argument a go. I wish I could get my hands on it to preview before spending the money. We're finishing up Orbiting with Logic, and I don't know what to use after we're done. We used Critical Thinking I. It was good, but I hope to find something better as we would rather not use Critical Thinking II. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freerange Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I'm planning to use The Snake and the Fox: An Introduction to Logic by Mary Haight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I have The Snake and the Fox in my wishlist. The last time I looked I thought it was around $40. Hmmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbridgeacademy Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 hmm, we're going to do AoA (starting next week). I didn't consider it "formal" logic though. From my understanding it is secular (the newest version only) I don't have it yet (UPS tomorrow)but I'm really hoping that is true. I'm also going to be using Philosophy for Kids later in the year. There is a short preview of the teachers edition on Amazon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodland Mist Academy Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I don't remember hearing of The Snake and the Fox before. It looks almost perfect. Are you sure it's secular? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodland Mist Academy Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I guess I'm wondering if it's religious, but just toned down like Art of Argument seems to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mo2 Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 I'm planning to use The Snake and the Fox: An Introduction to Logic by Mary Haight Thanks, I'll check this out. Would Critical Thinking from Critical Thinking Press work? I've been thinking about giving The Art of Argument a go. I wish I could get my hands on it to preview before spending the money. We're finishing up Orbiting with Logic, and I don't know what to use after we're done. I may try Critical Thinking but I've heard that it is geared towards a classroom/group setting and doesn't work especially well with one student. hmm, we're going to do AoA (starting next week). I didn't consider it "formal" logic though. From my understanding it is secular (the newest version only) I don't have it yet (UPS tomorrow)but I'm really hoping that is true. I'm also going to be using Philosophy for Kids later in the year. There is a short preview of the teachers edition on Amazon. If you could give us a review of AoA once you have it in your hands, I would really appreciate it. It was on my list but I've heard a lot lately about it not being completely secular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I don't remember hearing of The Snake and the Fox before. It looks almost perfect. Are you sure it's secular? I'm pretty positive that it's secular. Someone here recommended it. I can't remember who, but it was someone who would definitely be using secular programs that I trusted. The price is what has kept me from getting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodland Mist Academy Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I'm pretty positive that it's secular. Someone here recommended it. I can't remember who, but it was someone who would definitely be using secular programs that I trusted. The price is what has kept me from getting it. I misread the price. It's important to read all the numbers. :tongue_smilie: At first I read it as $12.45, which would be $100 shy of the actual price. :svengo: Hmm...maybe used. Although at this point I might even buy it new; it's hard to find a secular program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mo2 Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 . The price is what has kept me from getting it. I just looked at it on Amazon and it's $112! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occasionally Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I just looked at it on Amazon and it's $112! That's the hardcover, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Much better price if you don't mind paperback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mo2 Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 Yes, that's better. I missed that somehow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Formal mathematical logic. Good but pricey http://www.eimacs.com/student_aml_overview.htm?navname=STUDENTS&toopen=ul1,ul3&scrolly=149&subnavid=a4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 I used Critical Thinking 1 last year and am planning to use Critical Thinking 2 this year. My son liked it quite a lot. Yes, it is made for a classroom setting and that presents some challenges. For us, it is the lack of other people to argue with, lol. It is meant to spur lots of open discussion with many people offering their opinions. However, we didn't find that insurmountable. I would make a point of occasionally taking the opposite tact of my son, or have him explain why someone might come to a different conclusion etc. It worked for us. However, it is not written to the student. I needed to make sure that we had time for a direct, face to face lesson. If you can't do that then definitely look for a different program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nansk Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Much better price if you don't mind paperback. He he, now all those used copies will be snapped up. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occasionally Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Yep, I ordered my paperback the other day. It should be here in a couple of days :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Amanda~ Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Does anyone have any idea how to schedule it? just go through it? is there any supplement or anything that could help with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walking-Iris Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 http://www.rfwp.com/series/philosophy-for-young-thinkers-program#487 There's this. But the reviews were mixed. I'm still thinking about giving it a try though. The problem with RFWP is the thinness of their stuff, IMHO. I did want to try Critical Thinking as well, but after buying the ethics book from CTP, What Would You Do?, I'm really hesitant to do that again. WWYD is basically junk. I'm always a bit underwhelmed by CTP books. I really like Harry Stottlemeier, http://www.montclair.edu/media/montclairedu/cehs/documents/iapc/Curriculum-Brochure.pdf but the teacher's guides are pricey (even used on amazon) and huge. There's almost too much in them to get through. A lot would have to be cut just to make it usable. And the majority of it is lists of questions, questions, and more questions. It is good and solid logic/philosophy though. ETA: I looked over AofA, and it seemed interesting, but some of the right wing scenarios were icky and the way they were phrased made it clear that there was one "right" answer. So, that fails as a good logic program imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I just want to add my voice of support to your critique of CTP products. I've been able to work with Critical Thinking, but that is an exception. And, I got it for free, which makes me like it more, lol. In general I find CTP products to be overpriced for what you get and not user friendly. That speaks volumes to me: a company that makes products that are supposed to encourage critical thinking that are presented in a difficult to engage fashion. I also wanted to add that while I am using Critical Thinking, I do not consider it a formal logic program. It spends a lot of time discussing language (connotations etc) and the structure of different kinds of arguments. I have found it to be excellent for my 7th grader. But, it only has one chapter on symbolic logic and if-then statements etc in each book. And, the vocabulary of formal logic (modus ponens etc) hasn't been used, at least in the first book. My experience with formal logic has been all about the symbolic logic and diagramming if-then statements in all their permutations, logic trees etc. However, I am not looking for that sort of instruction for my middle grader. Critical Thinking prepares a student for something like a debate club or analyzing advertising and political speeches etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nansk Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Formal mathematical logic. Good but pricey http://www.eimacs.com/student_aml_overview.htm?navname=STUDENTS&toopen=ul1,ul3&scrolly=149&subnavid=a4 And another, more affordable option, with free solutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freerange Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 If you're looking for critical thinking rather than formal logic you could take a look at the many resources available for 'OCR AS Critical Thinking ' which is an English exam aimed at 16-18 year olds, but I've seen material that I'd be happy using with my 11 & 13 year olds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Would Critical Thinking from Critical Thinking Press work? I've been thinking about giving The Art of Argument a go. I wish I could get my hands on it to preview before spending the money. We're finishing up Orbiting with Logic, and I don't know what to use after we're done. After Orbiting with Logic we're going to do Fallacy Detective Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 After Orbiting with Logic we're going to do Fallacy Detective Have you been able to review Fallacy Detective yet? I thought it was pretty blatantly Christian? Or am I mistaken and it could be used secularly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Strawberry Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Rainbow resource says "This book presents a Christian view of logic." so...I guess we'll just keep looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Ah, geesh. You're right. I don't know how I missed that. Maybe I was thinking of the Critical Thinking book but got the name confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 I had intended to use AofA, but now I am second guessing that after reading all these replies! I have no idea what to do now! I will have to look at everyone's suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanna1949 Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Art of Argument is informal logic, according to the first chapter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy2BaMom Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 I just purchased AoA, assuming it was secular. In looking through it (keep in mind I'm skimming it here - I just rec'd the TM two days ago, and the Student book will not be here til next week), I'm seeing a lot of stuff that is secular & usable. I've only come across one rather toned-down religious piece (so far). I'd be happy to report back after ds and I have used it for a month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mo2 Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 I just purchased AoA, assuming it was secular. In looking through it (keep in mind I'm skimming it here - I just rec'd the TM two days ago, and the Student book will not be here til next week), I'm seeing a lot of stuff that is secular & usable. I've only come across one rather toned-down religious piece (so far). I'd be happy to report back after ds and I have used it for a month. Thank you for sharing your initial impression. And please do report back if you remember! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 There are two recent threads on AoA. I would read them before you buy. We use it because we have it, but I would not buy it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalmia Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Introductory college level formal logic. (For at least 7th grade +). I have it, but have only browsed through it. Explanations are clearly written. http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Formal-Logic-Peter-Smith/dp/0521008042/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1377572012&sr=1-1&keywords=formal+logic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Strawberry Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 I've been looking. It seems that our best option will be to use a book written for adults. Amazon has a large selection, most of which appear to be secular. I already have this book on my kindle. We'll start with a few of these, then move to something more formal. http://www.amazon.com/Logic-to-the-Rescue-ebook/dp/B001QTXLQ4/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1377676136&sr=1-1&keywords=logic+to+the+rescue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mo2 Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share Posted August 28, 2013 I've been looking. It seems that our best option will be to use a book written for adults. Amazon has a large selection, most of which appear to be secular. I already have this book on my kindle. We'll start with a few of these, then move to something more formal. http://www.amazon.com/Logic-to-the-Rescue-ebook/dp/B001QTXLQ4/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1377676136&sr=1-1&keywords=logic+to+the+rescue I have this too but haven't had a chance to read it yet. Hoping to fit it in to the schedule soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Strawberry Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 I've skimmed it. Each chapter identifies a different logical fallacy. I'm not sure yet how well it explains each one. There's a second book for $0.99 "Castles and Chemistry. I haven't looked at it yet. We have some time before we get there. We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nansk Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 I've skimmed it. Each chapter identifies a different logical fallacy.... There's a second book for $0.99 "Castles and Chemistry. ... Thank you for the link! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypamama Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 I've been looking. It seems that our best option will be to use a book written for adults. Amazon has a large selection, most of which appear to be secular. I already have this book on my kindle. We'll start with a few of these, then move to something more formal. http://www.amazon.com/Logic-to-the-Rescue-ebook/dp/B001QTXLQ4/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1377676136&sr=1-1&keywords=logic+to+the+rescue I had intended to use AoA this year, and I didn't mind a religious bent as much as I did the mentions of abortion and prostitution, even presented with the right (IMO) worldview. But Logic to the Rescue is pretty good and gets to what I wanted my sixth grader to know, which is the mistakes people make in logic when debating. It's an easy read, and while I've only read half or two-thirds of it, there's nothing objectionable in it. DD also like CryptoMindBenders last year, from CTP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 I used this: http://www.amazon.com/Concise-Introduction-Logic-Patrick-Hurley/dp/0534520065 when my kids couldn't handle the religious content in Mars Hill any more. They needed the review at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space station Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 My daughters and I read "Logic to the Rescue" and "Castles and Chemistry" this summer. We liked the books, but were disappointed that "Castles" isn't finished - it is only the first half of the book and is very short. At the end, it says that the second half will be available in 2012, but it is still not available. It also said that a 3rd book, "Prince of Physics" would be out in 2013; again no sign of it. The story line of "Logic to the Rescue" leaves you hanging, so you want to go on, but then fizzles. These are fun books to read, but can't be a logic curriculum on their own, per se. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 For higher level kids and somewhat abstract/sort of computer science oriented applications you could look at the Coursera logic course from Stanford professor Michael Genesereth. I took it last fall. It was very challenging, and by chapter 7 out of 10 I could no longer dedicate the time needed to work through the problems, but it was definitely comprehensive formal logic, and he threw in a few puzzle applications for fun. I think he teaches it 1-2 times per year, a new session starts September 30. https://www.coursera.org/course/intrologic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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