Piano practice - do you require rigor in practice even though music is not a career path?

[mathnerd]

If your child shows great interest in music and is doing well in his piano lessons and never has a problem practicing, would you require rigorous practice even though you know that your child would never choose a career in music? The reason I ask is because this child (6 year old) also expresses interest in a lot of other activities (like soccer, basketball, field trips etc) which can not happen due to piano taking much of his free time (which is limited due to several other ongoing sports and activities). I have told him that he needs to drop piano to get 30 minutes free time to do other things. But he wants to do other things and piano too and pick up a second instrument too. I am well aware of the benefits of piano (and music in general) and am pretty strict about practice (teacher's requirement is 30 minutes a day/ 5 days a week). Sometimes I wonder if I should just practice 3 days a week (yes, I sit with him for practice help every day) and let him do other sports on the remaining days. Would you require rigorous practice if your child is learning for enrichment and enjoyment?

 

ETA1: This is a child with truly boundless energy and who is interested in every activity he comes across - sport, art, science, summer camp, music etc. And his mom is someone who is just now learning how to say "no" and not signing him up for every single activity he wants to pursue.

 

ETA2: The 30 minute practice takes up to 45-60 minutes daily because of the compelling need to chat in between, fool around and play all sort of interesting music, compose his own music and generally have fun at the piano. A song played 4 times is almost never played back to back - there are always breaks of some kind to adjust the metronome, try out a cool tune in between before continuing. We are working on the focus ...

[Ravin]

If the teacher asks for 30 min. 5 days a week, that's the practice I'd expect him to do.

 

I am also good at saying "no" and requiring DD prioritize when it comes to enrichment activities. I've seldom let her have more than one extracurric going at one time, and she's 9. This is partly because we can't afford more, but also because some things can simply wait. She is in band at her enrichment program, and played flute last year. This year I am letting her switch instruments--she's chosen clarinet. But she is not getting guitar lessons because we can't afford them. Ditto violin. She wants to learn both and has been saying so since she was six. I've assured her there will be time to learn them when she's a little older.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I do not, but I do require that they meet their instructor's requirements for practice. In other words, I do not consider practicing for 30 minutes a day rigorous. Seems pretty standard. My first priority for my kids' playing is that they enjoy it throughout their lives as a hobby. That said, their days are not so packed that 30 minutes per day of practice interferes with them getting around to other activities. In your shoes, I would look for balance in other areas.

[stoverdavid30]

Yes, I recommend the rigor.

[Farrar]

I don't.  And especially not at that age.  My kids have to practice as much as the teacher asks them to.  She assigns pieces and a number of times they have to play them per time.  It's usually only takes about 20 mins a day, five days a week, not all seven.  In the future, I assume it will ramp up, but not yet.  But I'm pretty relaxed about most things.

 

I wouldn't go by what others do anyway.  Assess your own goals and your child and consider what you want as well as the way you spend your money and time.

[Alice]

I do not, but I do require that they meet their instructor's requirements for practice. In other words, I do not consider practicing for 30 minutes a day rigorous. Seems pretty standard. My first priority for my kids' playing is that they enjoy it throughout their lives as a hobby. That said, their days are not so packed that 30 minutes per day of practice interferes with them getting around to other activities. In your shoes, I would look for balance in other areas.

 

Our teacher at that age recommends/requires that they practice each piece 5 times 5 days a week. That ends up being about 20-30  minutes for the 6 year old and a bit more for the 9 year old. I don’t consider that super rigorous nor do we have trouble fitting it in along with other extracurriculars. 

 

Does he want more “free timeâ€? I have found that kids are all different. My oldest truly likes being busy. He likes having some down time and can find plenty to do when he has unscheduled time but I have had to push back against the idea that “over-scheduling†is bad for all kids. He requests to be busier and really is happy when we have a week packed with activities. I think as long as your son is happy and your family isn’t suffering, don’t worry about what other people do. 

[redsquirrel]

At 6? I would go in a slightly different direction. I require practice every day (we try for 7 days a week practice) but I don't time it for such a young one. Both my boys have played piano since age 4. They are now 8 and 13. My 13 year old practices half an hour or more easily. But, the 8 year old? Well, maybe this year we will start getting there. We've had a couple teachers at this point and none have required 30 mins from a little one. My youngest can hardly deal with a 30 min lesson. He does it, but it is hard for him.

 

I am more likely to say that they need to practice each piece 3 or 4 times or something like that. With the little ones, a piece can take 30 seconds.

 

So, I would suggest very regular practice (every day if possible) but make the practice shorter.

[Julie Smith]

At 6? I would go in a slightly different direction. I require practice every day (we try for 7 days a week practice) but I don't time it for such a young one. Both my boys have played piano since age 4. They are now 8 and 13. My 13 year old practices half an hour or more easily. But, the 8 year old? Well, maybe this year we will start getting there. We've had a couple teachers at this point and none have required 30 mins from a little one. My youngest can hardly deal with a 30 min lesson. He does it, but it is hard for him.

 

I am more likely to say that they need to practice each piece 3 or 4 times or something like that. With the little ones, a piece can take 30 seconds.

 

So, I would suggest very regular practice (every day if possible) but make the practice shorter.

 

This is more like what we do.

 

Youngest still has only a 20 minute lesson since that is long enough for him. Meaning he practices enough that a 20 minute lesson is the right amount of time for the teacher. He will only start having a longer lesson when he needs it. 

 

Meanwhile Eldest enjoys the piano much longer and his teacher usually spends longer with him then the 30 minute lesson I pay for. Because he practices enough to warrant it. 

[Catherine]

Agree that rigor is important and that daily practice is too. But that will look different for different children. I started my kids with a policy of "finish practice while they are still having fun" even if it meant, at age 5, practicing for 5 minutes. My goal was for them to practice in a focused way and enjoy it.

 

So by 11, my ds practices piano 45-60 minutes a day, with few breaks, and practiced well. If he showed little interest, I would handle it differently. But for a younger child or beginner, learning the discipline of daily practicing is more important than the time spent IMO. And if the child is playing around a lot during practice time, they are not benefitting from the full time anyway. I'd keep it shorter and more focused at that age.

[Brooketopia]

Wow, 30 minutes a day for a 6yo?  We only do 15 minutes a day, and it's fine.  Mine are 6 & 9.  I'll expect them to bump up to 30 mins. at 10yo.

 

The rule in our house is 1 musical instrument and 1 physical activity once you graduate the 1st grade.  I am not chauffeuring any more than that.  We have school to do, chores to do (that never get fully completed!), grocery shopping, library visits, and I believe firmly that young children need free time to figure out how to entertain themselves.

 

I do not sit with my kids for practice.  They need to figure out how to do it themselves.  Piano lessons are a perfect situation to learn how to learn without Mom.

 

I set a timer for practice time--15 minutes, and when it goes off, then they can "mess around" if their other chores and schoolwork are done.  (I'm nearby to remind them to get back on task if the music doesn't sound "assigned.")

 

I don't know how you're defining "rigor," so I'll just say that I expect my kids to practice what they've been assigned and to complete their theory exercises each day during practice time.  If they're working on something else, I remind them to re-focus on the work they're supposed to be working on.  Refusal to practice means a threat to discontinue their piano lessons for a month because I'm not paying for something they're not doing.  They've always grumbled and picked up their books once we get to that point.  (Some days you just don't want to practice!)  :)  I expect them to do the work they've been assigned; I don't know if that would qualify as "rigorous."  

 

Don't run yourself ragged when your kid's only 6.  You've got the teenage years for that.

 

(In the spirit of full disclosure, my girls do start Girl Scouts (Juliettes--not in a troop) in K.  So they have those activities for K-1, and then alongside the physical activity and piano lessons starting in Grade 2.)

[Rebel Yell]

:confused1:   "rigorous practice"  :confused1: 

 

I honestly have no idea what that means.

 

My girls have all taken piano, and practiced almost every day for at least 15 minutes, or as long as it took to get through the lesson.  I have no idea if they were practicing rigorously (although I highly doubt it) or just putting their fingers on the correct keys toget through the lesson/song. Diamond took piano through Alfred level 4, which she finished in 9th grade to get high school credit.  The others dropped it as soon as they completed my requirement of Alfred level 2, and both switched to other instruments.

 

But I'm curious: is the 6yo's day truly so jam-packed that the only possible way to get 30 minutes of free time would be to drop piano?

 

My only advice is if you want them to have a life-long love of music, don't make practice a daily misery.  I'm nopt opposed to study and practice- just nopt making it a daily battle.  That usually serves no good purpose.

 

Good luck!  :001_smile:

[Wildiris]

The long distance view. Two of my kids hit the ten year wall and quit piano mostly because they saw no future for themselves playing piano, and they no longer wanted to spend their precious time hunched over 88 keys.

 

So sure, you could have your 6 year old practice for 30 min. a day. Really it isn't too much time. But what matters more is happiness and quality of practice. Some kids can accomplish a huge amount practicing less because their practice is very focused. Playing piano should not be a chore, or something to check off on your list of things to do. Practice should be a good challenge and fun.

 

It sounds like you might be giving too much choice to a 6 year old. We can do no more than 3 activities without going bonkers. Remember, jack of all trades and master of none.

[duckens]

If I was paying for lessons, I would require practice.  Music lessons are too expensive for it to be just a social call to the teacher's house.  You want to get the best value for your music dollar, and that means having your children ready when they walk into lessons.

 

I have no intention that either of my two dd will be professional musicians, but I hope they can find a lifelong hobby they enjoy.

 

1) Could you do practice first thing in the morning, before the other kids are up, and in a way that did not interfere with afternoon sports?  Could you practice after supper?

 

2) Could you sit with him for the first 30 minutes (and work on focus as you have stated is your goal), then leave him to finish practice by saying, "Play this two more times on your own, and then you're done for the day!"

 

 

 

 

[LMD]

30 mins seems steep for a 6yo to me too, if he's enjoying it i wouldn't worry though.

[ScarletJones]

One of my sister's sons is differently abled. Hes a downs. He often sits with the piano pressing the keys randomly. My question is will he be able to learn piano ? Has anyone seen a downs child play a piano ? Please help... 

[Dmmetler]

Scarlet Jones-absolutely! I'm a music teacher, and I've taught a lot of kids with special needs, including developmental delays. The ideal teacher will be someone with a background in working with special needs or in music therapy.

 

Some of the methods for piano that I've seen be most successful for students with developmental disabilities are Simply Music (nice because it has a contemporary, age-appropriate feel for older students, and because the DVD study at home lessons can supplement working with a teacher and provide extra repetition), Suzuki Piano (the focus on auditory development and on mastery of a piece can work quite well, as can the fact that the pieces are often very short at the start) and Musikgarten (Musikgarten is a group, multi-sensory class that teaches keyboard skills. Done 1-1, it can work very, very well for students with developmental delays, especially those who need shorter segments with more activity and movement). All of these have audio CDs for home listening that are an integral part of the program.

 

Piano can be an especially good thing for kids with OT goals-often you're working on the same skills. It's a good idea, with a child with such goals, to talk to the OT and see if the OT and music teacher can work together. Music therapists often work with OTs. Social and communications skills goals are also good to work on in a music lesson setting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cosmos]

But I'm curious: is the 6yo's day truly so jam-packed that the only possible way to get 30 minutes of free time would be to drop piano?

 

This is the big question to me. I don't think piano is the issue here. 30 minutes is more than my ds could have done at 6, but if he's enjoying it and doesn't want to quit, then I don't think there is any problem.

 

But a 6yo does need lots of free time, in my opinion. And more than 30 minutes of exercise on alternate days. I would be looking hard at the rest of his day to see what is making his schedule so full.

 

[Holly]

Our teacher requires them to play each song 20x during the week.  For a 6yo, her practices take no more than 15 minutes a day.  My older DD's take twice as long (since her songs are twice as long).  They also are more focused since there isn't a set time...the quicker they play them, the quicker they can get their lesson over with.   :lol:   I think it's brilliant.  

 

My long-term goal is that I'd like them to be able to play in church.  That would help provide them with a bit of extra money throughout their lives.  I don't expect them to be professional pianists.  

[FriedClams]

My 2 kids play piano and have since they were 5 and 6 (they're 10 and 12 now). I require whatever the teacher requires. At first it was 5 times each song each day. For a long time we were at 20 minutes a day. We often did 2 ten minute sessions then (one before breakfast, one while I made dinner). Now they do 45 minutes every day, except 20 on lesson days. We get it done about 85-90% of the time. Unless there's something huge going on - there's no fun until the practice is done (the rule is nothing goes on until  "chores, school, and piano" are done).

 

Neither kid has a passion for music but they both enjoy it enough and know it's here to stay. We've told them they can decide to continue when they are 16. Until then it's an academic subject like math, or a discipline like brushing your teeth. It must be done. Every day. I see so many benefits to long term music lessons that even though they'll never pursue it as a career - it's good for them. I'd also like them to be able to play at church in the future.

[4peanuts]

ETA2: The 30 minute practice takes up to 45-60 minutes daily because of the compelling need to chat in between, fool around and play all sort of interesting music, compose his own music and generally have fun at the piano. A song played 4 times is almost never played back to back - there are always breaks of some kind to adjust the metronome, try out a cool tune in between before continuing. We are working on the focus ...

 

My dd started piano just after turning 7 (She is now 8).  The way you described your son's practice habits reminded me in a way of what she was like.  For about the first week or maybe two after starting lessons, I did monitor her practice more closely because I wanted to make sure she got some guidance starting out.  I kept it pretty structured, i.e. going through the songs in an orderly way, spending extra time practicing the parts that she was having difficulty with, etc.  It really wasn't possible for me to continue giving her that level of guidance (due to both other kiddos keeping me busy and my own lack of advanced piano skills!), and so it wasn't too long before I just set the time for her 25 minutes and let her go at it.  

 

She did not at all keep up the structure, but instead preferred to cycle through the songs in her own way and at her own pace--not at all what I'd call focused!  But I just let her do her thing, mostly out of necessity, and when time was up, practice was over.  (Her teacher suggested 25 minutes, 5 days per week at her age)

 

She, like your son, enjoys her time at the piano and does not see it as drudgery.  She's progressing well and being promoted through to new books quickly, and I've come to the realization that her having that freedom/ownership of her own practice time was a good thing.  If she was completely goofing off, then yes, we'd have to evaluate whether it was worth it to pay for piano lessons.  But she just has her own method of working through her songs, and so far, so good.  This particular daughter does a LOT of things differently than I would, and so this has just been one more example of me learning that there are times and situations to enforce structure/rigor, and also times to back off and let her work her own way.

 

ETA:  What does the piano teacher say about his progress?  I'd put a lot of weight on that to help me determine whether he's just practicing/processing music skills in his own way, or just goofing off. 

[quark]

DS10 is similar to 4peanuts's DD in practice style. He likes to play his way. It was a difficult few years at first because there was a huge disparity between his desire to play and his ability/ skill. He could never get his tempo right for example. Anyway, piano for us was always for enjoyment, we didn't place any high expectations. I have tons of friends who were expected to play well from very young who eventually gave the instrument up because they found the expectations too tedious and lost their love of playing. I didn't want that for kiddo. The result is that he practices of his own free will and plays pieces that are meaningful to him. Once in a while I like to challenge him by asking him if he would learn a difficult piece to play to me on my birthday or Mother's Day and he often complies because he is sweet that way. Given time, his skills and repertoire have really improved.

 

He started piano at 4+ and at 6, 20-30 minutes was the usual practice time. My son is similar to OP's. Wanting to do a lot of things at the same time. After a couple of years of homeschooling though it became obvious that there was only so much we could do every day. He is also an only child and it was easy at first to give in to his wants because I would feel bad about him being lonely. Finally though we decided to focus on a select few activities and work on just those. There's a lot of time to branch out and try different things later if necessary.

 

My rule of thumb usually is to give my child some ownership and decision-making abilities but within certain boundaries like budget and time. I usually explain to him that X and Y are the limitations...given that, what is most important to you? Then we take it from there. Good luck, OP!

[JenC3]

No. My 7 yr old is required 15 minutes a day. Maybe 4 times a week. They always practice the day of the lesson anyway for some reason. He has taken for exactly one year and has moved along very rapidly. He went through four levels so he's in a bit of a slump, no problem, it's just 15 min. My dd at almost 10 has put in 3.5 years. She doesn't need me to require any practicing, it's all self-motivated. She's finishing level of Faber. I don't know if they'll want a career in music at this point, but I want them to love it and so it need to mostly come from them. If I have to force it too much, for too long, we might need to stop.

[MomOfOneFunOne]

AMDG

 

My kiddo is 14.  It's rather a struggle to describe her in terms of violin playing but here is an effort.

 

All along she has loved the idea of playing violin.  She wants to be able to play it well.  She does not and never has wanted to practice.  **INFURIATINGLY** she can get by b/c she has just enough talent to do the bare minimum and sound pretty dog gone good.  She isn't interested in anything else. And by the way, all the things we tried to foster interest and, thereby, dedication, failed to do so.  She enjoyed fiddling for the contests b/c there are cash prizes and she enjoys the little day trip for a classical contest but  . . . they were never the hook that made her love it.

 

***UNTIL***

 

Last year she was invited by her teacher to compose for an event at a living arts thing.  Students who participated wrote original pieces to be played by the orchestra and the composer got to lead the orchestra during his or her work.  OHMYGOODNESSGRACIOUS!  Suddenly my daughter couldn't be kept away from her violin!  Wild horses couldn't drag her from the composing software!  

 

Whoo Hoo!  Riding High!

 

But then the thing was over and it wasn't a couple of weeks and she was back to her musical ennui.

 

Well, we learned something.  There isn't much interest in sawing away for (insert appropriate practice time) for my girl.  My kid is CrEaTiVe!  There isn't much that is creative in the practice.  So, we went to school on that.

 

Now, I am NOT saying that she doesn't have to practice unless it is creative and it suits her.  I am saying that we can build more creative opportunities into her music education.

 

It sounds like your kiddo is a bit like mine: a great lover of music!  no so much on practice. 

 

I do recommend that you require your student to complete every practice every day to the best of his ability.  I also recommend finding ways to help him fall in love with his instrument so he'll want to practice.  I know that's hard but that's why we have the hard job.

 

and by the way, at that age my daughter loved, Loved, LOVED, L!O!V!E!D when I would put a really cute or really pretty picture on the piano and have her play the soundtrack.  Oh my, what memories!  You could offer one pic a week if each practice is done and then point out how he included something he had learned in lesson/practice.  My daughter was crazy for that at that age.

[ScarletJones]

Scarlet Jones-absolutely! I'm a music teacher, and I've taught a lot of kids with special needs, including developmental delays. The ideal teacher will be someone with a background in working with special needs or in music therapy.

 

Some of the methods for piano that I've seen be most successful for students with developmental disabilities are Simply Music (nice because it has a contemporary, age-appropriate feel for older students, and because the DVD study at home lessons can supplement working with a teacher and provide extra repetition), Suzuki Piano (the focus on auditory development and on mastery of a piece can work quite well, as can the fact that the pieces are often very short at the start) and Musikgarten (Musikgarten is a group, multi-sensory class that teaches keyboard skills. Done 1-1, it can work very, very well for students with developmental delays, especially those who need shorter segments with more activity and movement). All of these have audio CDs for home listening that are an integral part of the program.

 

Piano can be an especially good thing for kids with OT goals-often you're working on the same skills. It's a good idea, with a child with such goals, to talk to the OT and see if the OT and music teacher can work together. Music therapists often work with OTs. Social and communications skills goals are also good to work on in a music lesson setting.

Thank you greatly for delivering a lot of very helpful  information and facts. I would like to thank you on behalf of my sis, for the efforts you had made for responding. I'll definitely convey these details to my sister and I am sure she'll be happy to hear this.