George Zimmerman

[ChocolateReignRemix]

FYI - look up SYG hearings. The defendant is not required to testify.

[Murphy101]

I think if you are armed, you have an even higher moral obligation to avoid confrontation.

I disagree. I think they have an obligation to not instigate a fight. Just like if I were a 6'2 heavy weight champion and a black belt in martial arts - I'm not obligated to run from confrontation. But I also have a moral not to pick a fight with someone knowing they are disadvantaged.

 

That's very different from avoiding confrontation. For example, if I were being raped and beaten I'd be very glad to have someone confront my attacker, armed or not. I think it's an embarrassment to our society how often people avoid confronting criminals. That women are told it's better to scream fire than help. That women have died while people listened to their screams and did nothing. Or made a phone call and then washed their hands of any moral duty to act.

 

I also have little doubt that if we had the exact same scenario and Martin was a white female, Zimmerman would be found guilty.

Probably true. Bc our culture tends to presume the woman is never a genuine physical threat to a man. Which is usually true.

 

I also think if Zimmerman had been an armed black male patrolling his mostly black neighborhood, had muttered the same things Zimmerman did, and shot a white teen, he would be found guilty. Race plays a role in how threatening we see situations, unfair though it is.

I don't see black men as threatening. Just because someone somewhere does, doesn't mean it should be presumed everyone will.

[Laurie4b]

 

That's very different from avoiding confrontation. For example, if I were being raped and beaten I'd be very glad to have someone confront my attacker, armed or not. I think it's an embarrassment to our society how often people avoid confronting criminals. That women are told it's better to scream fire than help. That women have died while people listened to their screams and did nothing. Or made a phone call and then washed their hands of any moral duty to act.

 

 

 

 

Yes, I've wished that often about the neighbors in this case. Only one neighbor even went outside to see better what was happening. He called to them to stop and said he was calling 911. In this case, I think both Martin and Zimmerman would have stopped if someone had gone a little further than that.  On the other hand, I do know that people fear for their safety. At least many neighbors called 911. There have been situations where no one even did that much.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Yes, I've wished that often about the neighbors in this case. Only one neighbor even went outside to see better what was happening. He called to them to stop and said he was calling 911. In this case, I think both Martin and Zimmerman would have stopped if someone had gone a little further than that. On the other hand, I do know that people fear for their safety. At least many neighbors called 911. There have been situations where no one even did that much.

DH and I talked about that. He is a big guy and normally isn't hesitant to get involved when he thinks it is warranted and has in the past. He did admit that in the dark with the screaming heard on the 911 tapes he wasn't sure what he would have done. We both thought Good and the other callers sounded scared on their calls.

[livetoread]

 

 

I don't see black men as threatening. Just because someone somewhere does, doesn't mean it should be presumed everyone will.

Agreed. I don't presume everyone will. I was just speaking in generalities. I think, in general, people weight race more heavily than they should while assessing threat.

[happymomofboys]

Yes, I've wished that often about the neighbors in this case. Only one neighbor even went outside to see better what was happening. He called to them to stop and said he was calling 911. In this case, I think both Martin and Zimmerman would have stopped if someone had gone a little further than that.  On the other hand, I do know that people fear for their safety. At least many neighbors called 911. There have been situations where no one even did that much.

 

Or someone else would have gotten shot.  Really, I don't understand the idea that someone should feel a moral obligation to put their own life at risk because two strangers are fighting in the street.  They have no way of knowing who the aggressor is or if either of them is armed, high, or mentally unstable.  Just as Zimmerman should have stayed in his truck, I think it's appropriate for the neighbors to stay in their houses and call 911.  I don't judge them for that at all.

[Laurie4b]

Or someone else would have gotten shot.  Really, I don't understand the idea that someone should feel a moral obligation to put their own life at risk because two strangers are fighting in the street.  They have no way of knowing who the aggressor is or if either of them is armed, high, or mentally unstable.  Just as Zimmerman should have stayed in his truck, I think it's appropriate for the neighbors to stay in their houses and call 911.  I don't judge them for that at all.

 

I am not disagreeing. People don't have a moral obligation to risk their lives to help others. The people that called 911 but left the naked woman who had just been raped on their doorstep are getting ridiculed for it. But it could have been a scam.

 

That's why I used the word "wish". I wish that someone had gone out. I don't judge anyone for not going out.

 

[Mrs Mungo]

More links for informational purposes:

 

http://m.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/07/george-zimmerman-not-guilty-blood-on-the-leaves.html

 

http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/open-a-civil-rights-case.fb28?source=s.fb&r_by=8190006

[ChocolateReignRemix]

More links for informational purposes:

 

http://m.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/07/george-zimmerman-not-guilty-blood-on-the-leaves.html

 

http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/open-a-civil-rights-case.fb28?source=s.fb&r_by=8190006

Cobb's article in the New Yorker is well worth the read. He was on a CNN panel this morning but didn't get to speak much.

 

Zero chance of a charge from the DOJ.

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

I woke up to see the NOT GUILTY verdict and was glad. I was sure the outcome was going to be different just to please the media. This whole thing has been blown way out of proportion to what it would have been had the media not interfered. Sadly both families involved will not find peace. TM family for not feeling justice was done and GZ and family for the torment they will get from those who think it is their place to avenge the death of TM.

[Trish]

What a mess. Depending on whether you believe what the prosecution or the defense says about where the children were. If she fired in the direction that could have harmed the children, it makes the prosecution more understandable. And it makes a huge difference in her returning with the gun if the garage door was locked so she couldn't get out.  I detest mandatory sentencing laws: 20 years and no one got hurt.

 

Any direction could have harmed the children. Bullets bounce.

[Murphy101]

Or someone else would have gotten shot.  Really, I don't understand the idea that someone should feel a moral obligation to put their own life at risk because two strangers are fighting in the street.  They have no way of knowing who the aggressor is or if either of them is armed, high, or mentally unstable.  Just as Zimmerman should have stayed in his truck, I think it's appropriate for the neighbors to stay in their houses and call 911.  I don't judge them for that at all.

I don't think anyone has to run into danger willy nilly stupid. But security comes at the price of maintaining it. And that requires the cooperation of every citizen.

 

Criminals get away with what they do bc they know people are scared of them. That she can scream her head off and no one will come. Do they have a moral obligation to come? Maybe not. But then we can't be surprised when no one comes running to help us or our loved one either. And we aren't.

 

Do I expect anyone to come running if I were being beaten? No.

 

That attitude is a major reason why many people, such as myself, are vehemently pro gun rights, even if they don't own guns themselves.

[Murphy101]

Any direction could have harmed the children. Bullets bounce.

Indeed. And even if bullets didn't, kids aren't known for being stationary either.

[SKL]

To the people who insist it was enough for GZ to call 911 and buzz off, have you ever lived in a place where it takes hours for the cops to respond to a call - especially one not involving person-to-person violence?  GZ had commented on his call that when this has happened before, the perps "always get away."  It's frustrating and it's not wrong to want to do something about it when people are getting hurt.  If I were not a single mom of young kids, I could see myself following a guy to keep track of him and perhaps make him feel that the opportunity to commit a burglary has been diminished.  If he turned out to not be up to anything, then great.  I would not assume that a person (especially one who was not planning anything wrong) would punch my nose for "following" him.

 

I've "followed" people when I felt they were being too extreme with disciplining their young children, with the intention to make them feel like they were being watched and potentially judged (and hopefully would cool down a bit before continuing to discipline).  Should I go to jail for that?

[Joker]

If I am alone in the dark, someone starts following me, and then gets too close, I would probably do whatever necessary to get away. I wouldn't be asking questions. We don't really know that Martin confronted Zimmerman. Zimmerman is the one who followed. Zimmerman has also lied many times throughout this whole ordeal so I won't exactly take his word for everything.

[Slartibartfast]

To the people who insist it was enough for GZ to call 911 and buzz off, have you ever lived in a place where it takes hours for the cops to respond to a call - especially one not involving person-to-person violence?  GZ had commented on his call that when this has happened before, the perps "always get away."  It's frustrating and it's not wrong to want to do something about it when people are getting hurt.  If I were not a single mom of young kids, I could see myself following a guy to keep track of him and perhaps make him feel that the opportunity to commit a burglary has been diminished.  If he turned out to not be up to anything, then great.  I would not assume that a person (especially one who was not planning anything wrong) would punch my nose for "following" him.

 

I've "followed" people when I felt they were being too extreme with disciplining their young children, with the intention to make them feel like they were being watched and potentially judged (and hopefully would cool down a bit before continuing to discipline).  Should I go to jail for that?

Have you seen the other "F****** punks" (which is what he called him, he did not say "perp") that got away?

 

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/22/george-zimmerman-s-history-of-911-calls-a-complete-log.html

 

43. Jan. 29, 2012 – 5:38 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Disturbance

Report: Children “running and playing in the streetâ€

 

42. Dec. 10, 2011 – 5:29 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Disturbance

Report: “At the club house†… “Male subject [arrived on scene] that thought he was employed by†Zimmerman … “Subj is expected to get paid for serving food.†… Zimmerman “said that he didn’t wish him to serve at the [event]†… Zimmerman “hired someone else, subj sounded upset and wants to get paidâ€

 

Great! I didn't know I could have the police work out my catering drama! I bet it is nice to come home after a long day of saving lives from caterer bills. It truly is a public service.

 

36. April 22, 2011 – 7:09 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Suspicious activity

Report: Juvenile black male “apprx 7–9†years old, four feet tall “skinny build short blk hair†last seen wearing a blue t-shirt and blue shorts

 

9. Nov. 4, 2006 – 2:37 a.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Suspicious activity

Report: A call regarding a “late model red†Toyota pickup “driving around the neighborhood and apt complex for the past 5 minâ€

 

If I only have five minutes to find an address before people start calling the PO then I am  single-handedly causing a huge backlog in police calls. My bad.

 

7. Sept. 21, 2005 – 9:00 p.m.

Type: 911

Subject: Animals

Report: Reports a stray dog

 

 

[MyThreeSons]

This whole thing has been blown way out of proportion to what it would have been had the media not interfered.

Out of proportion? What, exactly, is the proper proportion for a life lost?

[Laurie4b]

Any direction could have harmed the children. Bullets bounce.

 

The defense said they had run out of the house. I do know they can go through walls b.c of drive-by's, but otherwise, I don't know beans about bullets.

 

When I first read about the case, it seemed outrageous that she had been charged with anything at all. But then I read that there were children present and that the shots went in their direction. That's when I thought charges weren't so outrageous. However, the defense said they'd already exited the house by that point, making charges seem overblown if that were true.

 

Even so, even for firing bullets where they *could* have bounced, the punishment doesn't fit the crime.  20 years for an incident in which she did not intend to hurt anyone (even though she could have) and in which no one actually got hurt, is still outrageous. That's why I hate mandatory sentencing laws. They directly cause injustice. Laws which give judges discretion risk allowing  the judge to commit injustice. by being biased, always too harsh, always too lenient, etc. but the law doesn't force the injustice.

[SKL]

Have you seen the other "F****** punks" (which is what he called him, he did not say "perp") that got away?

 

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/22/george-zimmerman-s-history-of-911-calls-a-complete-log.html

 

43. Jan. 29, 2012 – 5:38 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Disturbance

Report: Children “running and playing in the streetâ€

 

42. Dec. 10, 2011 – 5:29 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Disturbance

Report: “At the club house†… “Male subject [arrived on scene] that thought he was employed by†Zimmerman … “Subj is expected to get paid for serving food.†… Zimmerman “said that he didn’t wish him to serve at the [event]†… Zimmerman “hired someone else, subj sounded upset and wants to get paidâ€

 

Great! I didn't know I could have the police work out my catering drama! I bet it is nice to come home after a long day of saving lives from caterer bills. It truly is a public service.

 

36. April 22, 2011 – 7:09 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Suspicious activity

Report: Juvenile black male “apprx 7–9†years old, four feet tall “skinny build short blk hair†last seen wearing a blue t-shirt and blue shorts

 

9. Nov. 4, 2006 – 2:37 a.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Suspicious activity

Report: A call regarding a “late model red†Toyota pickup “driving around the neighborhood and apt complex for the past 5 minâ€

 

If I only have five minutes to find an address before people start calling the PO then I am  single-handedly causing a huge backlog in police calls. My bad.

 

7. Sept. 21, 2005 – 9:00 p.m.

Type: 911

Subject: Animals

Report: Reports a stray dog

 

 

Clearly you have put a lot more time into finding reasons to hate GZ than I have put into finding reasons to trust the jury to do its job.  Whatever makes you feel good.

 

 

[Jennifer3141]

 

 

To the people who insist it was enough for GZ to call 911 and buzz off, have you ever lived in a place where it takes hours for the cops to respond to a call - especially one not involving person-to-person violence?  GZ had commented on his call that when this has happened before, the perps "always get away."  It's frustrating and it's not wrong to want to do something about it when people are getting hurt.  If I were not a single mom of young kids, I could see myself following a guy to keep track of him and perhaps make him feel that the opportunity to commit a burglary has been diminished.  If he turned out to not be up to anything, then great.  I would not assume that a person (especially one who was not planning anything wrong) would punch my nose for "following" him.

 

I've "followed" people when I felt they were being too extreme with disciplining their young children, with the intention to make them feel like they were being watched and potentially judged (and hopefully would cool down a bit before continuing to discipline).  Should I go to jail for that?

 

 

Yes, I currently live in a place where it can take an hour or more for police to respond to a call if they are on the other side of the county working on someplace else.

 

I'll tell you what I DON'T do because of that: I don't follow someone after 911 tells me not to and then engage that person. I go into my home or car and enjoy the relative safety. I don't walk up to a "suspicious" person and engage in an altercation. We have police who are trained to do that and very often, they don't end up MURDERING the suspect. Obviously, GZ would have made a lousy cop.

 

However, I'm not a mentally disturbed, racist, wanna be cop vigilante.

 

I will entertain the possibility that TM mouthed off to GZ. He was a 17 year old BOY. You know what those are famous for? Being complete idiots. 17 year old boys think they are invincible. The things my DH and brother and their friends did at the age of 17 just crack me up and terrify me. And GZ was following TM. TM was not following GZ.

 

GZ was not a trained professional. And TM had the legal right to be where he was, doing what he was doing. Had he had some pot days/weeks/hours previous to this? Maybe. Who cares? The entire state of Washington is toked out right now and the world has kept on spinning.

 

GZ was an adult with a moral duty to leave this kid alone. If it isn't your kid, or he isn't damaging your stuff or anyone you love - keep your mouth shut and for crying out loud, your GUN elsewhere.

 

This will happen again. Either GZ or some other whacko will take it a step further. Maybe when a few white boys get bumped, we will actually do something about it.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

If I am alone in the dark, someone starts following me, and then gets too close, I would probably do whatever necessary to get away. I wouldn't be asking questions. We don't really know that Martin confronted Zimmerman. Zimmerman is the one who followed. Zimmerman has also lied many times throughout this whole ordeal so I won't exactly take his word for everything.

Key point: Zimmerman and Martin lost contact for 3-4 minutes before the confrontation. Martin could have easily been back to his house in that time (distance to the house was estimated at 45 seconds).

Zimmerman has some inconsistencies in his testimony but enough is backed up by forensics and witness statements that it is tough to claim he is outright lying. Even the lead detective stated that inconsistencies are expected when stories are retold.

Didn't RJ's testimony also state she heard Martin make the first verbal statement to Zimmerman?

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Have you seen the other "F****** punks" (which is what he called him, he did not say "perp") that got away?

 

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/22/george-zimmerman-s-history-of-911-calls-a-complete-log.html

 

43. Jan. 29, 2012 – 5:38 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Disturbance

Report: Children “running and playing in the streetâ€

 

42. Dec. 10, 2011 – 5:29 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Disturbance

Report: “At the club house†… “Male subject [arrived on scene] that thought he was employed by†Zimmerman … “Subj is expected to get paid for serving food.†… Zimmerman “said that he didn’t wish him to serve at the [event]†… Zimmerman “hired someone else, subj sounded upset and wants to get paidâ€

 

Great! I didn't know I could have the police work out my catering drama! I bet it is nice to come home after a long day of saving lives from caterer bills. It truly is a public service.

 

36. April 22, 2011 – 7:09 p.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Suspicious activity

Report: Juvenile black male “apprx 7–9†years old, four feet tall “skinny build short blk hair†last seen wearing a blue t-shirt and blue shorts

 

9. Nov. 4, 2006 – 2:37 a.m.

Type: TEL

Subject: Suspicious activity

Report: A call regarding a “late model red†Toyota pickup “driving around the neighborhood and apt complex for the past 5 minâ€

 

If I only have five minutes to find an address before people start calling the PO then I am single-handedly causing a huge backlog in police calls. My bad.

 

7. Sept. 21, 2005 – 9:00 p.m.

Type: 911

Subject: Animals

Report: Reports a stray dog

 

You are aware that testimony provided by the NW coordinator stated that neighbors were instructed to call Zimmerman and have him make reports for them, right?

[catz]

To the people who insist it was enough for GZ to call 911 and buzz off, have you ever lived in a place where it takes hours for the cops to respond to a call - especially one not involving person-to-person violence?  GZ had commented on his call that when this has happened before, the perps "always get away."  It's frustrating and it's not wrong to want to do something about it when people are getting hurt.  If I were not a single mom of young kids, I could see myself following a guy to keep track of him and perhaps make him feel that the opportunity to commit a burglary has been diminished.  If he turned out to not be up to anything, then great.  I would not assume that a person (especially one who was not planning anything wrong) would punch my nose for "following" him.

 

I've "followed" people when I felt they were being too extreme with disciplining their young children, with the intention to make them feel like they were being watched and potentially judged (and hopefully would cool down a bit before continuing to discipline).  Should I go to jail for that?

As a matter of fact, it's called stalking.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalking

 

So yes, you can go to jail for that. Ordinary citizens do not have background and training to police the streets. People should be alarmed if some random unidentified person is following them, and I think you're playing with fire when you do that.

 

 

George Zimmerman finished speaking with police at 7:13. First witness called 911 at 7:16, Martin was shot during the phone call (just before 7:17). First police showed up at 7:17. I don't think response time of the police was an issue here.

[SKL]

 

 

 

Yes, I currently live in a place where it can take an hour or more for police to respond to a call if they are on the other side of the county working on someplace else.

 

I'll tell you what I DON'T do because of that: I don't follow someone after 911 tells me not to and then engage that person. I go into my home or car and enjoy the relative safety. I don't walk up to a "suspicious" person and engage in an altercation. We have police who are trained to do that and very often, they don't end up MURDERING the suspect. Obviously, GZ would have made a lousy cop.

 

However, I'm not a mentally disturbed, racist, wanna be cop vigilante.

 

I will entertain the possibility that TM mouthed off to GZ. He was a 17 year old BOY. You know what those are famous for? Being complete idiots. 17 year old boys think they are invincible. The things my DH and brother and their friends did at the age of 17 just crack me up and terrify me. And GZ was following TM. TM was not following GZ.

 

GZ was not a trained professional. And TM had the legal right to be where he was, doing what he was doing. Had he had some pot days/weeks/hours previous to this? Maybe. Who cares? The entire state of Washington is toked out right now and the world has kept on spinning.

 

GZ was an adult with a moral duty to leave this kid alone. If it isn't your kid, or he isn't damaging your stuff or anyone you love - keep your mouth shut and for crying out loud, your GUN elsewhere.

 

This will happen again. Either GZ or some other whacko will take it a step further. Maybe when a few white boys get bumped, we will actually do something about it.

 

Well aside from the obvious fact that your bias is coloring your preference for the "facts," just because you think you wouldn't do abc does not mean it is morally or legally wrong to do abc.  Also, NO, I think you are WRONG to say that "if it isn't MY kid, damaging MY stuff or anyone *I* love, I should keep my mouth shut."  BS x 1000.  Mean and selfish and nasty POV in my opinion.  And btw if you really believed that in your heart, you would not care what happened to TM either.

 

Furthermore, 911 does not get to tell people where to go or not go.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

 

 

 

Yes, I currently live in a place where it can take an hour or more for police to respond to a call if they are on the other side of the county working on someplace else.

 

I'll tell you what I DON'T do because of that: I don't follow someone after 911 tells me not to and then engage that person. I go into my home or car and enjoy the relative safety. I don't walk up to a "suspicious" person and engage in an altercation. We have police who are trained to do that and very often, they don't end up MURDERING the suspect. Obviously, GZ would have made a lousy cop.

 

However, I'm not a mentally disturbed, racist, wanna be cop vigilante.

 

I will entertain the possibility that TM mouthed off to GZ. He was a 17 year old BOY. You know what those are famous for? Being complete idiots. 17 year old boys think they are invincible. The things my DH and brother and their friends did at the age of 17 just crack me up and terrify me. And GZ was following TM. TM was not following GZ.

 

GZ was not a trained professional. And TM had the legal right to be where he was, doing what he was doing. Had he had some pot days/weeks/hours previous to this? Maybe. Who cares? The entire state of Washington is toked out right now and the world has kept on spinning.

 

GZ was an adult with a moral duty to leave this kid alone. If it isn't your kid, or he isn't damaging your stuff or anyone you love - keep your mouth shut and for crying out loud, your GUN elsewhere.

 

This will happen again. Either GZ or some other whacko will take it a step further. Maybe when a few white boys get bumped, we will actually do something about it.

1.) Zimmerman stated he quit following Martin when he told the dispatcher "okay". No evidence or testimony was presented to dispute his statement.

 

2.) Zimmerman claims that Martin approached him as Z was returning to his vehicle. No evidence was presented to show otherwise.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

As a matter of fact, it's called stalking.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalking

 

So yes, you can go to jail for that. Ordinary citizens do not have background and training to police the streets. People should be alarmed if some random unidentified person is following them, and I think you're playing with fire when you do that.

Actually, it is not stalking. From your link (wording similar to Florida state law btw):

Stalking can be defined as the willful and repeated following, watching and/or harassing of another person. Unlike other crimes, which usually involve one act, stalking is a series of actions that occur over a period of time.

 

George Zimmerman finished speaking with police at 7:13. First witness called 911 at 7:16, Martin was shot during the phone call (just before 7:17). First police showed up at 7:17. I don't think response time of the police was an issue here.

To be fair response time on an emergency versus non-emergency call is very different, particularly when shots are fired.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

The defense said they had run out of the house. I do know they can go through walls b.c of drive-by's, but otherwise, I don't know beans about bullets.

 

When I first read about the case, it seemed outrageous that she had been charged with anything at all. But then I read that there were children present and that the shots went in their direction. That's when I thought charges weren't so outrageous. However, the defense said they'd already exited the house by that point, making charges seem overblown if that were true.

 

Even so, even for firing bullets where they *could* have bounced, the punishment doesn't fit the crime. 20 years for an incident in which she did not intend to hurt anyone (even though she could have) and in which no one actually got hurt, is still outrageous. That's why I hate mandatory sentencing laws. They directly cause injustice. Laws which give judges discretion risk allowing the judge to commit injustice. by being biased, always too harsh, always too lenient, etc. but the law doesn't force the injustice.

It's not just the mandatory minimum but the upgrade of the charge - basically the charge moves up a level (example: 2nd degree to 1st degree and THEN the minimum is increased). Oddly enough manslaughter is one of the charges that has the maximum increased but there is still no minimum.

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

Out of proportion? What, exactly, is the proper proportion for a life lost?

 

How many un-natural deaths happen in the USA a day? And of those how many get the hype this one did? I lived in Louisiana very near New Orleans, 2, 3, 4 death by gun shot or stabbings happened very frequently, I would say weekly and that is generous. How many of those have you heard about? How many of those have been spread all over the news? Why aren't you hearing about all those people and deaths...because it isn't something the media can sink it's teeth into. Those deaths are happening in the extremely impoverished areas and happening to and by the same race. What makes these young black men (and the majority of the deaths in New Orleans are young black men) being shot dead by another young black man any different whether in self defense or murder? Their lives are being lost and those lives were just as special as TM but why are you not crying out for justice for them?

I stand by what I said...it was blown out of proportion due to someone wanting to bring race into it and knowing that will sell in the media. The media has made big bucks off of this and they can care not an ounce if TM or GZ got justice.

 

[Slartibartfast]

You are aware that testimony provided by the NW coordinator stated that neighbors were instructed to call Zimmerman and have him make reports for them, right?

 

I didn't find what you stated among articles regarding her testimony, but she gave Fall of 2011 as the time period in which the meetings regarding a neighborhood watch took place. Most of the incidents that I pasted from the list of 911 calls took place before that.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I didn't find what you stated among articles regarding her testimony, but she gave Fall of 2011 as the time period in which the meetings regarding a neighborhood watch took place. Most of the incidents that I pasted from the list of 911 calls took place before that.

You will have to find her whole transcript. A fair number of incidents did take place after that time though, and to be fair his calls cover around 6 years.

[Slartibartfast]

Clearly you have put a lot more time into finding reasons to hate GZ than I have put into finding reasons to trust the jury to do its job.  Whatever makes you feel good.

 

 

 

 If the prosecution fails to make its case then what else is a jury supposed to do? This was badly handled from the get go, the forensics was badly done. I don't know what I would have done had I been on the jury. 

 

He doesn't seem to me to be a rational person, who calls the police about a seven year old? Who calls the police to complain about their roomate's houseguests? 

 

Would you want this guy moving into your neighborhood? I would not. 

 

What has he taken away from this experience? Are we going to be discussing this guy in another five years? The comments from his family have left me feeling disgusted.

[*Michelle*]

How many un-natural deaths happen in the USA a day? And of those how many get the hype this one did? I lived in Louisiana very near New Orleans, 2, 3, 4 death by gun shot or stabbings happened very frequently, I would say weekly and that is generous. How many of those have you heard about? How many of those have been spread all over the news? Why aren't you hearing about all those people and deaths...because it isn't something the media can sink it's teeth into. Those deaths are happening in the extremely impoverished areas and happening to and by the same race. What makes these young black men (and the majority of the deaths in New Orleans are young black men) being shot dead by another young black man any different whether in self defense or murder? Their lives are being lost and those lives were just as special as TM but why are you not crying out for justice for them?

I stand by what I said...it was blown out of proportion due to someone wanting to bring race into it and knowing that will sell in the media. The media has made big bucks off of this and they can care not an ounce if TM or GZ got justice.

 

 

Hi, Chicago.

[MyThreeSons]

1.) Zimmerman stated he quit following Martin when he told the dispatcher "okay". No evidence or testimony was presented to dispute his statement.

 

2.) Zimmerman claims that Martin approached him as Z was returning to his vehicle. No evidence was presented to show otherwise.

Here's my understanding:

 

In the end, nothing that led up to the final confrontation really matters. What matters is that the jury found that it was reasonable for GZ to feel that he was in imminent danger during that altercation. Under FL law, it was therefore considered an act of self defense and a justified killing, which means they could not convict.

 

From the jury instructions: ""At issue in this case is whether George Zimmerman acted in self-defense. It is a defense to the crime of Second Degree Murder, and the lesser included offense of Manslaughter, if the death of Trayvon Martin resulted from the justifiable use of deadly force.

 

'Deadly force' means force likely to cause death or great bodily harm.

 

A person is justified in using deadly force if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself."

 

As much as I think GZ was wrong on so many levels, based on these instructions, which both sides agreed to, I would have had to acquit GZ.

[milovany]

If the prosecution fails to make its case then what else is a jury supposed to do? This was badly handled from the get go, the forensics was badly done. I don't know what I would have done had I been on the jury.

This paragraph is so disturbing, in the context of the conversation. The way it's stated, you're annoyed because the evidence didn't prove what you wish it would have proved. You never would have made it on the jury; your prejudice is too evident. What would you have done? Acquitted, because the evidence to convict was not there. Is not having enough evidence to convict the prosecution "failing to make its case?" Even if there was just not enough evidence?

[Trish]

There were some lawyers on tonight who said the prosecution did a terrible job with the evidence it DID have. Apparently failing to adequately prep witnesses. Changing their theory of what actually happened close to the end. Over-charging. Etc.

 

Also there was that one African American woman lawyer on CNN again, stating that this was a miscarriage of justice. How so, if there wasn't enough evidence, and the prosecution didn't do a stellar job?

 

Just because you don't get the result you want doesn't mean it's a "miscarriage of justice."

 

I would think a lawyer of all people would know that.

[Joker]

One of the most disturbing things since the verdict is hearing Zimmerman's people say he should get his gun back now and hopefully his concealed carry permit because, "He needs it now more than ever."  I'm scared to think of what might happen if he feels he really needs it now as opposed to how he felt before.

[Jennifer3141]

 

 

1.) Zimmerman stated he quit following Martin when he told the dispatcher "okay". No evidence or testimony was presented to dispute his statement.

 

2.) Zimmerman claims that Martin approached him as Z was returning to his vehicle. No evidence was presented to show otherwise.

 

 

1. Yeah, the only evidence we have that Zimmerman didn't do what the 911 operator asked is a DEAD BODY.

 

2. Again kinda hard for TM to refute this since he's well, DEAD.

 

This guy is a liar and he got his wife to lie for him too. Hence the perjury charge for HER.

[Jennifer3141]

 

 

Well aside from the obvious fact that your bias is coloring your preference for the "facts," just because you think you wouldn't do abc does not mean it is morally or legally wrong to do abc.  Also, NO, I think you are WRONG to say that "if it isn't MY kid, damaging MY stuff or anyone *I* love, I should keep my mouth shut."  BS x 1000.  Mean and selfish and nasty POV in my opinion.  And btw if you really believed that in your heart, you would not care what happened to TM either.

 

Furthermore, 911 does not get to tell people where to go or not go.

 

 

How many threads have been here about strangers spproaching other people's kids and how annoying, evil, or heinous that is?? Seriously, how many?

 

TM was NOT GZ's kid. TM was not breaking any laws. GZ should have kept his racist fat butt out of the entire thing. And then we'd have one less dead kid in the world, or in Jesus' opinion - a VICTORY.

[happymomofboys]

To the people who insist it was enough for GZ to call 911 and buzz off, have you ever lived in a place where it takes hours for the cops to respond to a call - especially one not involving person-to-person violence?  GZ had commented on his call that when this has happened before, the perps "always get away."  It's frustrating and it's not wrong to want to do something about it when people are getting hurt.  If I were not a single mom of young kids, I could see myself following a guy to keep track of him and perhaps make him feel that the opportunity to commit a burglary has been diminished.  If he turned out to not be up to anything, then great.  I would not assume that a person (especially one who was not planning anything wrong) would punch my nose for "following" him.

 

I've "followed" people when I felt they were being too extreme with disciplining their young children, with the intention to make them feel like they were being watched and potentially judged (and hopefully would cool down a bit before continuing to discipline).  Should I go to jail for that?

 

Perhaps you shouldn't go to jail for that, but it's seriously creepy.  Honestly, if you think someone is abusing their kids, call the police or social services.  If you don't think what they're doing warrants calling the authorities, then leave them alone and go about your business.

[jhschool]

We will never know what really happened, who struck the first blow,

who issued the first verbal threat, who fell first, who wanted what.

 

It is because we will never know what happened that this whole thing

is so messed up.

 

It's impossible to know.  We will never know.  It's unbearable, actually...

[SKL]

 

 

 

How many threads have been here about strangers spproaching other people's kids and how annoying, evil, or heinous that is?? Seriously, how many?

 

TM was NOT GZ's kid. TM was not breaking any laws. GZ should have kept his racist fat butt out of the entire thing. And then we'd have one less dead kid in the world, or in Jesus' opinion - a VICTORY.

 

Since racism is obviously at the core of this from many people's perspective, how come nobody is mentioning the racism of TM and how that likely influenced his choices in this whole matter?  Oh, I forgot, AA people can't possibly be racist.

 

You know, the fact is that there are AA leaders who are thrilled that this happened, as it allows them to exaggerate their importance and increase their personal bankrolls.  God forbid we go a few weeks without someone stirring up racial hatred and then blaming someone else for it.

 

[Trish]

Another point made tonight by one of the TV legal analysts: the prosecution played all the videotapes of GZ's statements explaining the incident from his POV. (both to police, and to interviewers) Their point was that there were some inconsistencies so therefore he was a liar. But what this meant was GZ's defense was basically presented in full, and HE NEVER HAD TO TESTIFY. The defense couldn't have brought in those tapes but the prosecution did it for them.

[milovany]

Had he had some pot days/weeks/hours previous to this? Maybe. Who cares? The entire state of Washington is toked out right now and the world has kept on spinning.

:blink:

 

Not only is this so NOT true (I live here, so am pretty sure not everyone is toked out right now), but it's quite an illogical attempt at relevance. Marijuana being legal in a location all the way across the country makes it not possible that mj in Trayvon's system might have had something to do with their interaction?

 

:blink:

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Another point made tonight by one of the TV legal analysts: the prosecution played all the videotapes of GZ's statements explaining the incident from his POV. (both to police, and to interviewers) Their point was that there were some inconsistencies so therefore he was a liar. But what this meant was GZ's defense was basically presented in full, and HE NEVER HAD TO TESTIFY. The defense couldn't have brought in those tapes but the prosecution did it for them.

It would have more effective if the police investigators had not said his story was generally consistent and that some inconsistencies are normal. Makes me wonder if Serino swerved the prosecution a bit because of how he was treated.

[[email protected]]

And that's all, folks.

 

Moderator