Do you think there is truth to The Secret?

[BlueTaelon]

Have you seen it work? How do you think it works?

[Joanne]

I have not read The Secret.

 

But I am familiar with the Law of Attraction, and I do practice that as an intentional thought process.

[Guest inoubliable]

No. It's crap.

 

Think positive? Sure. That's nice.

Have goals and plans? Excellent.

Visualizing what you want? Great for motivation!

 

Thinking furiously about a marriage you want? Doubt that's going to be the thing that gets your mate to propose. Hyperfocusing on a job promotion and expecting to get it because you put positive vibes out in the universe? Uh oh. Better hope your cubemate didn't out-goodthought you!

 

Blech.

[OrganicAnn]

You mean that if you imagine things, you will make them happen? "The Law of Attraction"?

 

I don't think so. I think it is wishful thinking.

 

I think believing success is 95% perspiration and 5% inspiration is a better philosophy to live by.

[wingedradical]

We have friends who were into this. These friends had always been very much into the cosmos as being subject to manipulation. My husband and I are Christians, not super fundy but Christian. We accepted a DVD from them about the Secret because they were so excited although we knew from past experience with our friends (who are great people that we just disagree with on certain topics) that we probably wouldn't be impressed.

 

I think the thing that struck my husband and I the most was, coming from a Christian background, that it was just like listening to a sermon in a Word of Faith church only they replaced "God: with :"the universe."

 

I do think that we can do things that will increase our opportunities and even affect, to some extent, what happens to us. But I don't personally believer that you can manipulate everything. Bad things happen to good people; good things happen to bad people. The real secret is learning how to respond to that truth with thankfulness, bravery and grace toward others.

 

My response does touch on religion (as does the original) and I know this isn't the place to argue religion, so please understand I am only answering from my point of view, not in view of judging or converting.

[Guest inoubliable]

You mean that if you imagine things, you will make them happen? "The Law of Attraction"?

 

I don't think so. I think it is wishful thinking.

 

I think believing success is 95% perspiration and 5% inspiration is a better philosophy to live by.

 

 

Yes. This.

Law of Attraction? I don't even know how anyone is calling that a Law. There is no scientific study that backs up the claim that if you think hard enough, it will be. Anecdotal evidence does not empirical evidence make.

 

People can achieve all sorts of things by having a goal and a plan, but then it takes work. Good vibes and happy thoughts just aren't going to do it.

[Word Nerd]

It reminds me of the word-faith movement. To answer the question: No, I do not.

[Joanne]

You mean that if you imagine things, you will make them happen? "The Law of Attraction"?

 

I don't think so. I think it is wishful thinking.

 

I think believing success is 95% perspiration and 5% inspiration is a better philosophy to live by.

 

 

A *significant* number of people work hard at low paying jobs. They stay there, working HARD at low paying jobs because the social and fiscal dynamic keeps them there.

 

I don't believe that "success" is a formulaic composition based on "hard work".

[Joanne]

 

Yes. This.

Law of Attraction? I don't even know how anyone is calling that a Law. There is no scientific study that backs up the claim that if you think hard enough, it will be. Anecdotal evidence does not empirical evidence make.

 

People can achieve all sorts of things by having a goal and a plan, but then it takes work. Good vibes and happy thoughts just aren't going to do it.

 

 

 

The Law of Attraction predates The Secret by many years, and is the underlying foundation of The Secret.

[Guest inoubliable]

 

 

The Law of Attraction predates The Secret by many years, and is the underlying foundation of The Secret.

 

 

Well sure, but the tenacity of an idea doesn't necessarily mean that it's corroborated and demonstrable.

[OrganicAnn]

A *significant* number of people work hard at low paying jobs. They stay there, working HARD at low paying jobs because the social and fiscal dynamic keeps them there.

 

I don't believe that "success" is a formulaic composition based on "hard work".

 

 

I agree that there are people who work hard and never have success. Also there are lots of factors that go into success or failure.

 

But if someone where to ask me which would more likely lead to success 1) hard work or 2) thinking certain thoughts about success, then I would recommend hard work.

[Murphy101]

A *significant* number of people work hard at low paying jobs. They stay there, working HARD at low paying jobs because the social and fiscal dynamic keeps them there.

I don't believe that "success" is a formulaic composition based on "hard work".

 

I agree. Working hard is often not enough.

 

I see great value in trying our best to have a positive attitude and make the best of whatever we are given. I do think that helps to bolster a person's ability to engage others and seek opportunity.

 

However, I don't buy into the extend view that a person can think it to be it or think it to get it or the prosperity gospel. Not at all actually.

 

I didn't read the book. Alas, I tend to view most self help and parenting pop psychology with a combination of cynicism and dismissiveness.

[mysticmomma]

I do believe in the law of attraction. You get more of what you focus on (positive vs negative things in your life). I don't believe you will manifest a car out of thin air just by thinking about one; but our intentions and attitudes and thoughts have power.

[Joanne]

 

 

I agree that there are people who work hard and never have success. Also there are lots of factors that go into success or failure.

 

But if someone where to ask me which would more likely lead to success 1) hard work or 2) thinking certain thoughts about success, then I would recommend hard work.

 

My understanding of the new age thought behind the Law of Attraction does not expect success to materialize exclusively through hyperfocused thought.

 

The power of visualization, goal setting, and mental preparation is found throughout wisdom literature throughout time.

[elegantlion]

A *significant* number of people work hard at low paying jobs. They stay there, working HARD at low paying jobs because the social and fiscal dynamic keeps them there.

 

I don't believe that "success" is a formulaic composition based on "hard work".

 

:iagree:

I do believe in goal setting, thinking positively (as much as humanly possible in some cases), and that working hard and smart is helpful. However, all of that doesn't negate the crap that some people encounter. The problem is that we, as humans, are interconnected with others, people that don't always follow the course we hope to follow. Eventually to be a "success", whatever that means to you, we have to put some trust and faith into other people. Sometimes they fail us, sometimes they let us down in the most heinous of ways and crush all those years of "positive thinking". Sometimes that sets us back to square one or square negative five.

[Heather in Neverland]

Nope.

 

The secret of life is... There is no secret.

 

It IS about working hard. But it is also a lot of luck. Being born into a certain family in a certain place at a certain time plays a lot into who you become as well. Sure positive thinking helps but it is no magic pill.

[cathmom]

How timely. I'm reading a book called Bright-sided: How the Relentless Promotion of Positive Thinking Has Undermined America. Basically, The Secret is crap IMO.

[Joanne]

I wonder if part of the apparent "success" of The Secret is the simple awareness of goodness around you, kwim?

Positive psychology has significant backing. Anecdotally, I have seen a gratitude orientation be part of a tool box that changes lives significantly.

[*Michelle*]

How timely. I'm reading a book called Bright-sided: How the Relentless Promotion of Positive Thinking Has Undermined America. Basically, The Secret is crap IMO.

 

Whoa, is this what people and books have been referring to when they talk about positive thinking? If so, I've been misinterpreting that for a long time. I always thought they were just encouraging people to remain positive when life is hard.   Keep your head up and all that. I didn't realize it was meant to be a plan of action.

[albeto]

"The Secret" is just woo. Easily debunked like all other woo.

 

Confirmation bias, cognitive dissonance, and Haselton and Nettle’s Error Management Theory explain why woo seems to work.

 

KK, it's called a "Law" because it supposedly offers an explanation to an observation (like "Kepler's Law of Planetary Motion" does). Only it clearly doesn't, because there is no such observation to be made, even if it really really seems like it to an individual.

[mommymilkies]

Positive psychology has significant backing. Anecdotally, I have seen a gratitude orientation be part of a tool box that changes lives significantly.

I agree.  That said, I haven't seen The Secret but I watched the other movie just like it years ago and left feeling a bit...offended.  Like all of the bad crap that's happened to me is because I haven't wished it to be positive or something.  IDK.  I think positive thought can help, but I think there's a limit, like everything else.  (Not like in a quota for your day like the "like" system on here lol)

[Joanne]

I agree. That said, I haven't seen The Secret but I watched the other movie just like it years ago and left feeling a bit...offended. Like all of the bad crap that's happened to me is because I haven't wished it to be positive or something. IDK. I think positive thought can help, but I think there's a limit, like everything else. (Not like in a quota for your day like the "like" system on here lol)

 

Yea. The nice thing about dropping the idea that I have to adopt one thing wholeheartedly as presented (christianity, AA, low carb, homeschooling, attachment parenting, positive discipline......) is that I can happily take what reasonates as true and drop the rest.

 

I did not create or "attract" the bad parts of my marriages. But I CAN think about them in terms that minimize my bitterness (after healthy processing).

 

Incidentally, this thread inspired me to take The Secret off my shelf. I am sitting here reading it at an event, waiting for fireworks.

[happymomofboys]

In a word? No.

However, I do believe that negative thoughts are more damaging to progress than positive thoughts. If you think you won't get a job, then you probably won't.  If you think you won't lose weight, you probably won't.  If you think you won't ever meet anyone worthy of you, then you probably won't, etc.  Therefore, if you focus on only thinking positive thoughts all the time, you may feel as if the "Universe" is aligning for your benefit simply because positive thinking has a tendency to motivate you to progress.

[LaxMom]

We watched the DVD. I hesitate to call it a movie or documentary because it was really more of an infomercial in the old-school MLM, selling seminars on how to get rich quickly and easily. Lots of method user testimonials about how they attracted wealth.

 

When the credits rolled, my husband and I just sat there, feeling dirty for having watched it. :ack2:

 

(Edited because I have not, in fact, become incoherent. Autocorrect has)

[Dory]

Positive thinking and focusing on what you want out of life are naturally going to get you there a lot easier. Also, because positive thinking does change the way a person might behave, you might attract some different people into your life. It's not magic, it's not a fix all. Bad things can happen to you still. Things can still often go wrong. Sometimes your dreams won't come true, or you may have to change what you are wanting. Sometimes, what you wanted wasn't really what you needed in life anyway.

 

Positive thinking it great and makes a HUGE difference in life, but what is being said in The Secret, is hogwash. I know people who love it and honestly, it hasn't done them any extra good for the last 10 years.

[JumpyTheFrog]

I also just read "Bright-Sided." The Secret is debunked in the book.

 

The book has a good history of how positive thinking got started and where it has led. The author demonstrates how positive thinking (which in the corporate world means "always be optimistic, no matter what the data") produces companies with cult-like mentalities. Both Countrywide and either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac had employees trying to point out the financial dangers corporate business decisions were likely to have. These employees tried to convince management that housing was in a bubble, but management decided to fire them instead. (This was 3-7 years before the housing crash.)

 

Another chapter compares positive thinking to the "name it and claim it" Word of Faith adherents.

[Murphy101]

I don't think positive thinking gets you whatever.

I think positive thinking is mobilizing. It keeps you going.

Negative thinking makes you stall. It's like quicksand. It sucks you down and makes it hard to progress.

 

So to me the effects of positive thinking have more to do with the absence of negative thinking.

 

Clear as mud?

[JumpyTheFrog]

Many people act like pointing out potential problems = not being positive. To them, unless you bury your head in the sand, you are "just being negative."

 

In "Bright-Sided", the author shows that despite being a reaction against the depressing, sin-sniffing Puritans, positive thinking eventually became just a rigid for most people. Only this time, instead of spending endless hours trying to find sins to feel guilty about, adherents spend their time feeling guilty about any non-optimistic-to-the-point-of-naive thoughts.

 

The author went to several positive thinking conferences. She found them just as shallow and manipulative as the motivational speakers. I believe at one point she likened them to MLM (maybe Amway) conferences.

[Element]

Positive thinking may not change your surroundings, but it can change your perception once positivity becomes a habit. I try to focus on positive doing. :)

 

ETA: Oh, as far as "The Secret" goes, I thought it seemed kind of skeevy for some reason, akin to "pray hard enough and God will give you the boat you've always wanted!" Just... No.

[TravelingChris]

I think this is the book my dh and I looked at once.  It was when we were stationed overseas and our libraries had limited new books.  Anyway, I got it out thinking it would be stupid but not sure in which way.  I ended up showing it to dh because he likes to see all the stupid ways physics gets misinterpreted and used as an accessory to all kinds of weird cultish things.  When we were voters in CA, one of the many parties that got on the battle was one of those groups that misused physics (in this case for politics- and no, it wasn't a political stand on something involving physics like nuke plants- just a general way about how certain physic principles should inform our voting- crazy stuff).  This book had some of that going on too. 

[laughing lioness]

My Dad was really into this and the pressure he put on himself and others (i.e. his kids) was unreal - seems like an oxymoron doesn't it? If we had only "thought" about "it" correctly we'd be happier, healthier, more vibrant, attractive and wealthy peope; our thoughts were keeping us "stuck," we could have the bodies we wanted (my sis had MS for 20 yrs before she died from it at the age of 48-too bad for her she didn't believe...), the life we wanted, the spouse we wanted, etc.etc.

 

I believe our thought life is important to our overall mental health, but I think it's really a selfish way of looking/ believing about reality/ life. 2 generations ago, those folks worked hard (I'm thinking of my grandparents) made due with the spouses they married or struggled to create something better and held on for dear life. The Secret promotes MEMEMEME.

[xixstar]

I really liked the movie because it is right up my crunchy thinking alley. I feel like I use a lot of the principals and it is a bonus to my life. But I don't go to the extremes that people on the show do. I'm not that diligent about it either; I find that when I focus my mind on something it becomes my reality. But I also don't focus my mind on anything that is a great stretch and it's rarely super specific like '$500 will come to be this month' or something (though I have tried that before and it did actually work, but I was certain it was a fluke -- my lesson there was to enjoy that moment but don't go chasing it either). In my interpretation, it isn't a great deal different than prayer either and is actually one of the reasons I have returned to prayer.

 

Oh and even liking the movie, I still felt many of the examples were a bit too 'out there'. :) I wouldn't give it to a friend and say that is is something I totally agree with, even if I do on many levels.

[NASDAQ]

No. It's woo. So is "the law of attraction".

[Onceuponatime]

I think there is an element of truth, but it is not THE truth.

 

I personally believe in what I call the Law of Consequences. Things happen as a chain of events, because of things that have come before. Sometimes it is because of things we are personally responsible for, sometimes it is because of the actions of others. It could even be because of the actions of of our great great grandparents or someone unrelated 10 generations back. Like someone said we are all connected.

 

I do believe we have some control over things we think or do, but not always. Sometimes the things we think are things other people are responsible for getting us to think. Even so, there will be consequences. I  think that becoming self aware is a big deal- observing our own thoughts and actions and considering what may be the consequences of negative or positive modes, examing why we think and act the way we do, and making positive changes.

 

At any rate, I don't think it is magical, I think it is a perfectly natural phenomenon.

 

Also, when we think about things often or have become aware of them, our brains are on alert and notice that thing everywhere. It's not that they weren't there before, but now we see what we were overlooking before because of our heightened awareness. I forget what this is called.

[Guest inoubliable]

I think positive thinking can lead a person to take steps that make things happen for them, but I don't think the thoughts themselves are something magical. 

 

When we bought our house it was a huge step for us, especially me.  Nobody in my family ever bought a house.  Every single thing worked out perfectly.  It kinda creeped me out it was so perfect.  But honestly, I worked hard to make sure things went smoothly.  I'm also very good at paying attention to details.  It all felt rather magical, but I don't think there was in fact anything magical going on.

Excellent example of how real life works.

 

Positive thinking ("You CAN handle this. You CAN do this.") and then actually doing the work (managing good credit, saving for a down payment, doing your homework on the buying process, paying attention to the details, staying on top of the other people involved in the transaction). Nothing magical. No universe high-five. You wanted something, you told yourself that you were going to do it, and then you DID it.

 

FWIW, here's a KK high-five for buying a house, though. ;)

[goldberry]

My Dad was really into this and the pressure he put on himself and others (i.e. his kids) was unreal - seems like an oxymoron doesn't it? If we had only "thought" about "it" correctly we'd be happier, healthier, more vibrant, attractive and wealthy peope; our thoughts were keeping us "stuck," we could have the bodies we wanted (my sis had MS for 20 yrs before she died from it at the age of 48-too bad for her she didn't believe...), the life we wanted, the spouse we wanted, etc.etc.

 

I

 

 

Yes, this.  The Secret sounds like a great idea on the surface, but when it is applied so literally, this is where it leads.   Positive thinking is always good, you will be happier looking for the good in things than looking for the bad.  And I do believe positive thinking puts out "vibes" our whatever you want to call them, that can sometimes help matters along.  But not always. 

 

Time and unforeseen occurance befall us all...

[elfgivas]

the Secret?  nope. 

positive thinking?  nope.

 

learned optimism?  absolutely.

 

(for more info, read seligman....)

 

if you look at a picture, the colour of matting changes what you notice in the picture.  learned optimism is the intentional use of a world view that is not delusional.... but that focuses one's attention on the possible positives of a situation. 

 

an example is a prayer for washing dishes that changed my persepctive completely....

 

thank God for dirty dishes; they have a tale to tell.

while others go hungry, we're doing very well...

for *something, something, something", (i can't remember)

we shouldn't want to fuss.

for by this stack of evidence, God's very good to us.

 

hth,

ann

 

[cathmom]

the Secret? nope.

positive thinking? nope.

 

learned optimism? absolutely.

 

(for more info, read seligman....)

 

 

 

hth,

ann

Unfortunately, according to the book Bright-sided, Seligman has bought into "positive psychology" and now "positive social sciences" despite a lack of hard science.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Unfortunately, according to the book Bright-sided, Seligman has bought into "positive psychology" and now "positive social sciences" despite a lack of hard science.

 

Before I read "Bright-Sided," I tried to get through "The Optimistic Child." I just couldn't get myself to finish the book. For some reason, I lost interest in it, even though I could see his point about people being globally vs locally and temporarily vs. positively optimistic or pessimistic. I never made it to the practical application.