airforcefamily Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Winter promise finally got back to me regarding their program being in black and white when the sample was in color. They admitted their website is not clear and does not explain the discrepancy. They said their catalog does have a line about it. i couldnt find anything in the 2012 catalog they sent with the order. I do not have access to their new catalog and did not have access to any catalog when ordering. The 2013 catalog has not been printed yet and since we have to pay per gigabite for internet I do not download large files. They went into again how expensive color printing is and how the cost of color printing is the reason the program is printed in black and white - um, not really the issue but I listened to it again. After listening to the 'color printing is expensive' speech they offered, for the inconvenience, a $20 credit towards another program. Another program would cost $15 just to have shipped so it's really only $5 towards another $150ish purchase. I declined the offer and said I'd prefer to return it. They said I can pack it in the box they sent it in but it would have to be sent priority mail again. They said it would be cheaper for me to find a different box and send it media mail. I asked if I was being expected to pay to return it. They said yes and that their return policy is clear. I stated again that I had purchased it based on the incomplete information they had in their website then I asked if I would be reimbursed for the total order price, including the $15 shipping to me or just the cost of the items (meaning I would be out around $25 plus the time/expense/hassle of driving all the kids ten miles away to the post office). Long story short they finally agreed to reimburse me for the shipping costs both ways. I hope they don't hold up the refund, I plan to call daily after I know they have received the package. I still don't like saying anything bad about a homeschool company but this experience has been enough of a bother for me to want to warn people. Initially they were very polite (when I was placing the order) but once there was a problem they came across as defensive and condescending without much to say besides excuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilly Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 That is great that they are refunding your shipping. That wasn't the case with my order. :glare: I had to remind them about my refund for weeks, and I only got it after emailing them quite a few times. Apparently it is very hard for them to process a refund but very easy for them to process an order. Hopefully you won't have the same trouble I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenaj Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 I was on their website today, and though many things interested me . . . I just couldn't make myself press the order button having heard of their reputation here and elsewhere on the web. I'm glad you were able to get some satisfaction and hopefully they will adjust their marketing to be more accurate but I'm just wondering how long they will be around with their business practices lacking so much in the customer service department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom0012 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Yes, you are lucky they are saying they will reimburse you for shipping. Be prepared to harass them about it though. I ordered one of their science programs a few months ago, which only contained about 7 items. They still totally screwed up my order and took 4 - 6 weeks to get it to me. They were always very nice when talking to me on the phone, and everything did get resolved. I wound up with 2 extra books, which I would mail back to them but I am not going to go through the hassle of trying to get them to pay me for shipping. I cannot even imagine what it would be like to order a package that contained 30 or more books. On top of that, while I haven't started the science program, I have looked through it and am not impressed. This is the Slimy, Grimy and Scummy No More. I thought it would be fun because we haven't done any conservation science, but I think we could get just as much (if not more) out of the 2 books (which contain activities) that come with the package and maybe the 2 science experiment kits than we're going to get out of their guide and student activity books. I'm not convinced that their activities are any better than what is in the books, but coming up with a bunch of activities and tacking them on to use instead of the ones in the books enables them to charge significantly more for the "program". Also, this is clearly a different science program (which received very poor reviews) which they had designed in the past and they've just renamed it and changed the resources because half of the pages in the student workbook are still titled Sizzle, Solve & Survive rather than the new program name. I've already noticed the activity book calls for my dd to do certain things, like measure the wind speed, without giving any explanation about how to do that. So, I knew I was taking a risk when I ordered, but I wanted to try and if I am happier with the program in the end than I think I will be, I will be sure to share that. I didn't feel I could return it, because I didn't have confidence that they would ever reimburse me once I sent everything back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Ugh. That's really unsurprising and yet still really disappointing. Hope you get your refund quickly. And I don't care what the cost of color printing is. That's their problem, not the customers. They advertise it as color, they should send it in color. The end. Especially for $150. I'd be livid at them complaining about the cost of color after I paid that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraceyS/FL Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 I'm happy you got a response and it works out. I would not even hesitate to file a complaint with my CC company if the refund took any length of time. AND, i hope you guys don't mind but I used this topic as a post in my customer service class today! Hey, the topic was "Many companies talk about the importance of providing excellent customer service, but when it comes to actually delivering the service to the customer, they don't...deliver." Why.... blah blah blah. See, it fit!!! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Winter promise finally got back to me regarding their program being in black and white when the sample was in color. They admitted their website is not clear and does not explain the discrepancy. They said their catalog does have a line about it. i couldnt find anything in the 2012 catalog they sent with the order. I do not have access to their new catalog and did not have access to any catalog when ordering. The 2013 catalog has not been printed yet and since we have to pay per gigabite for internet I do not download large files. They went into again how expensive color printing is and how the cost of color printing is the reason the program is printed in black and white - um, not really the issue but I listened to it again. After listening to the 'color printing is expensive' speech they offered, for the inconvenience, a $20 credit towards another program. Another program would cost $15 just to have shipped so it's really only $5 towards another $150ish purchase. I declined the offer and said I'd prefer to return it. They said I can pack it in the box they sent it in but it would have to be sent priority mail again. They said it would be cheaper for me to find a different box and send it media mail. I asked if I was being expected to pay to return it. They said yes and that their return policy is clear. I stated again that I had purchased it based on the incomplete information they had in their website then I asked if I would be reimbursed for the total order price, including the $15 shipping to me or just the cost of the items (meaning I would be out around $25 plus the time/expense/hassle of driving all the kids ten miles away to the post office). Long story short they finally agreed to reimburse me for the shipping costs both ways. I hope they don't hold up the refund, I plan to call daily after I know they have received the package. I still don't like saying anything bad about a homeschool company but this experience has been enough of a bother for me to want to warn people. Initially they were very polite (when I was placing the order) but once there was a problem they came across as defensive and condescending without much to say besides excuses. I am speechless. :ohmy: I would probably go ahead and contact my credit card company to let them know the product was MISREPRESENTED on the website and it was NOT what you ordered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 I am thinking this company needs to change its name. Winter Promises, Promises! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Oh, it was Winter Promise! They do have a reputation. When I was little, sometimes my grandfather used to let me hang out in his shop, which was his small town's sewing machine and vacuum cleaner repair and sales shop. It was next to my grandparents' house. I remember once a woman came who was new, she had questions, he explained that she needed a new belt, but that it was a really simple one, she could replace it herself. And then he gave her the belt. And then, when she left, he said, "See, now that lady is my customer forever. And that belt cost me less than five cents. And she'll tell her friends too." Clearly, some small companies never learned these little lessons about how to treat customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airforcefamily Posted June 19, 2013 Author Share Posted June 19, 2013 Hearing all these stories about refund problems I'm going to get a tracking number for the box, take pictures of everything before I send it back to be able to prove the condition, and contact my bank five days after they receive the package if they have not issued a refund. I'm pretty sure the bank will refund the purchase and deal with the company themselves. The more I read the more surprised I am that they are still business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samiam Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Never changes with them. I started researching them four years ago, to use one of their programs (changed mind after all I read). Four years ago, and I was reading about similiar service issues, not the color print thing specifically, waaay back then. And yet, they've never improved it seems. Shaking head as to why anyone even deals with them anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 :grouphug: Ugh how frustrating. I hope you get your refund quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alisoncooks Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I have looked at WP's site time and again. I have never been able to bring myself to be interested, simply because of the price tag -- but maybe I'll hold onto this thread (and others) if I ever get to that point... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyeska Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Hearing all these stories about refund problems I'm going to get a tracking number for the box, take pictures of everything before I send it back to be able to prove the condition, and contact my bank five days after they receive the package if they have not issued a refund. I'm pretty sure the bank will refund the purchase and deal with the company themselves. The more I read the more surprised I am that they are still business. Good idea. I'm glad to hear they will refund your shipping costs. When I went through a return with WP, I was out priority shipping both ways and it took me 2 months to get a refund once they received the box. Then they tried to claim that I returned damaged items. From the date I ordered until the day I received a refund was 6 long months. Never, ever, ever again will I deal with WP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berta Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I liked what I saw in their history program but couldn't get past the price tag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiver0f10 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Hearing all these stories about refund problems I'm going to get a tracking number for the box, take pictures of everything before I send it back to be able to prove the condition, and contact my bank five days after they receive the package if they have not issued a refund. I'm pretty sure the bank will refund the purchase and deal with the company themselves. The more I read the more surprised I am that they are still business. I know it's pricey to ship priority, but with this company I would pay the extra and not deal with media mail. I also recommend insuring it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teeniebeenie6 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 It's encouraging to me that they are refunding your shipping. They addressed their past problems on their facebook wall and talked about how they had or were making changes. Please let us know if they refund you in a timely manner. I'm thinking of buying one of their science programs for the year after next, whether I buy the program new or used will depend a lot on whether Winterpromise starts making good on their word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundersweet Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 WP has said they were making changes for years! Nothing ever changes and I no longer even look at their website. Sandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samiam Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 I remember at one point their "excuse" for their slow, sporadic, and missing shipments was because they had moved to a new warehouse "to make things better" but were still getting adjusted from the move. Um, yeah, that was four years ago or so. By circumstance, I got their catalog in the mail yesterday. Beautiful!!! Put it right in the recycling bin.....I know the reality does not match their descriptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbgrace Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 OP, I would pay to insure it and get proof of receipt by them. Check your credit card policy and make sure you're aware of how long you can wait to file a dispute. It's usually going to be 60 days from the charge. If you don't get the money before that point, you'll need to file a formal dispute. If you let that time pass and they don't come through, you won't have recourse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Good luck -- I hope you get all your money back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 I remember at one point their "excuse" for their slow, sporadic, and missing shipments was because they had moved to a new warehouse "to make things better" but were still getting adjusted from the move. Um, yeah, that was four years ago or so. By circumstance, I got their catalog in the mail yesterday. Beautiful!!! Put it right in the recycling bin.....I know the reality does not match their descriptions. Ordinarily I would not want to encourage what some might see as "bashing" threads, but in this case, it makes me angry that this company is still getting away with this stuff with new homeschoolers. They have been around over seven years. There is always some reason given and promises to do better. I would steer anyone away from purchasing directly from them, even though some might still me tempted by all! The! Exciting! Possibilities! Charlotte Mason! Adventures! Wow! :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Perhaps they are in the wrong business. Their catalog is very pretty, maybe they'd do better as a graphics company and not an all in one curriculum provider. They still would need an experienced business manager though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Ordinarily I would not want to encourage what some might see as "bashing" threads, but in this case, it makes me angry that this company is still getting away with this stuff with new homeschoolers. They have been around over seven years. There is always some reason given and promises to do better. I would steer anyone away from purchasing directly from them, even though some might still me tempted by all! The! Exciting! Possibilities! Charlotte Mason! Adventures! Wow! :p Our Catalogue! Our Amazing Notebooks! Begin Here! .... Towers or Dungeons! .... To Carry Out in Your Neighborhood! and that is just the home page!!!!!!!!!! Do you really want your kids to learn LA from these people!?!?!?!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 sorry, double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airforcefamily Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share Posted June 22, 2013 That was another excuse given.... Our website is so big we don't even know where it says everything is in black and white. Ummmmmmmm, if you can't find it do you really expect your customers to be able to? I've been looking and looking and still can't find anything. They also said the information is in their catalog but I can't find it there either. Why not just be upfront and honest about your product instead of hiding behind a complicated, flashy website? If it's a good product with reasonable customer service people will buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Surely they have nearly exhausted the almost-bottomless goodwill and patience of homeschoolers by now. We're talking about years of poor customer service. The excuses are shopworn and not really believable anymore. But that's what I thought last year, too, and people are still buying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tess in the Burbs Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 I got a catalog from them today. The note booking pages are shown in color and look amazing, but they are really b/w?? Not cool at all. False advertising(!), and while there are things I think my dd would like I won't buy after all the bad reviews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airforcefamily Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share Posted June 22, 2013 My understanding after talking with them is that the digital files are in color. If you're so inclined you can print them in color yourself or have an office store print in color for you but if you do not buy the digital file and opt to purchase already printed materials directly from wp everything you receive, except for title pages, will be in black and white. FWIW, the paper/binding is pretty basic. It's standard copy paper, standard print quality, full color cover page, with a basic wire spiral and thin plastic 'cover' on the front and back. Nothing to complain abuout as far as quality goes but nothing to rave about either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maryanne Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Just FYI... I have the WinterPromise 2013 catalog (which I received several weeks ago). On p. 13 under "WinterPromise Notebooking" paragraph 3 says: "Note that our notebooks can be printed in color with the ebook version, but when WP prints them, they are black and white copies, except for a few color pages in the back." It probably ought to be stated more prominently, but it is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Ugh, sorry, but that's just so cheap and crappy to make customers shoulder the cost of printing something in color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airforcefamily Posted June 23, 2013 Author Share Posted June 23, 2013 Just FYI... I have the WinterPromise 2013 catalog (which I received several weeks ago). On p. 13 under "WinterPromise Notebooking" paragraph 3 says: "Note that our notebooks can be printed in color with the ebook version, but when WP prints them, they are black and white copies, except for a few color pages in the back." It probably ought to be stated more prominently, but it is there. Have you found anything about the language arts programs? I'm not sure I would read a statement about note booking pages and take it to mean the 'write in readers' from the language arts program are also in black and white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Have you found anything about the language arts programs? I'm not sure I would read a statement about note booking pages and take it to mean the 'write in readers' from the language arts program are also in black and white. I wouldn't. If it says "notebooks", I would presume it meant the notebooks, not everything they sell because they didn't say all materials, they specificly say "notebooks". And is it online as well? Many people do their buying from the website and would expect the website to be MORE updated than the catalog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahW Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Ugh, sorry, but that's just so cheap and crappy to make customers shoulder the cost of printing something in color. Yeah, I don't get it. Are they printing it POD on their home laserjet? Shouldn't they be using a local printing service to print up their material in batches to get a volume discount? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airforcefamily Posted June 23, 2013 Author Share Posted June 23, 2013 Was wondering the same thing. Maybe they are just printing off copies when ordered and using a home binding machine? Does anyone know how big the company is? For the amount of items offered it seems they would have to have several employees and a small warehouse. Maybe that's the problem, it's just one or two people trying to run the show themselves. It seems odd that they don't go to conventions and that many people order books from them then receive the books directly from amazon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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