s/o Ask a Muslim

[Shahrazad]

I'm just creating this thread as a place where anyone can ask questions regarding Islam. Rosie mentioned she did an 'ask a Pagan' thread so I thought it'd be a good idea to do the same. I know in other threads, many people have mentioned feeling shy to ask certain questions or thinking that their questions are 'dumb'. I certainly don't want anyone to feel shy and I don't think any question is dumb. The only dumb question is the one that doesn't get asked, right?

 

So, feel free to ask whatever you are wondering, my only request is that you keep it respectful.

 

I also want to encourage any Muslim members here to feel free to answer the questions as well....this thread is not just for me and I don't want to steamroll anyone's perspective. Islam is not a 'one size fits all' faith and there are different opinions and different branches in terms of what people follow so my answer might not be the same as that of someone else.

 

Thanks!

[Amy in TX]

As salaamu alaikum Shahrazad,

 

I'm a Muslim and have just been reading the other thread. I'll be glad to chime in with whatever answers I can on this thread. Is there a way to keep track of a thread, if I don't look at the board every day?

[Shahrazad]

Wa Alaykum Assalaam.

 

You can go to the top right hand corner (with the little shadow people symbol) and select 'follow this topic' and I believe it should alert you any time there is a response :).

[Amy in TX]

Did it. :)

[JumpyTheFrog]

Here are some:

 

-If we see a woman wearing a head covering/veil (in the US), does that mean she is devout? Or could she be a cultural, but not practicing Muslim?

 

-What is the age range when girls are expected to start veiling? I've never researched it, but I seem to remember reading that some parents wait until puberty and others have their daughters start much younger.

 

-I saw a photo of a woman in a magazine. I believe she was the head of CAIR. She was not veiled. How common is it for a practicing Muslim woman to not cover her head?

[Shahrazad]

Here are some:

 

-If we see a woman wearing a head covering/veil (in the US), does that mean she is devout? Or could she be a cultural, but not practicing Muslim?

 

-What is the age range when girls are expected to start veiling? I've never researched it, but I seem to remember reading that some parents wait until puberty and others have their daughters start much younger.

 

-I saw a photo of a woman in a magazine. I believe she was the head of CAIR. She was not veiled. How common is it for a practicing Muslim woman to not cover her head?

 

 

 

- She may be devout or she may be a mostly cultural Muslim and not practicing. Devoutness is not really measured by whether you cover or not. A woman may be very religious but perhaps she fears repercussions of covering in public or she just finds it difficult to do so for example so she doesn't. On the other hand, a girl may be doing all kinds of things not allowed by Islam and she may not really pray or practice and she might just be wearing it because her parents told her to when she was younger and she doesn't feel the need to take it off regardless. So, covering is not a good measure of religious devotion.

 

- The general consensus is that it becomes required when menstruation starts. Since some women have delayed menstruation for health reasons or start much later compared to when they hit puberty and are developing, some scholars have said the alternative if it still hasn't started has to do with puberty (such as having other signs like hair growth and reaching the age of 15 without menstruating). Many people do start their daughters younger simply so they will get used to it and not find it a huge change that is hard to adapt to. My little sister actually really wanted to veil younger and my parents tried delaying her as long as possible. She had a couple of years to dress cute (without having to worry much about modesty so like little headscarves and skinny jeans and boots and stuff) before she actually hit puberty and was expected to start wearing her clothes a bit looser and longer and less form-revealing.

 

- It is quite common for Muslim women not to cover their head. I know a lot who do but I also know many who do not. Some of them have began covering later, after they got married or had kids or for whatever reason, decided to make the switch, and some still do not cover but dress modestly.

[Shahrazad]

I just want to add that veiling, while I personally do believe it is obligatory, is not really as big a deal as people make it out to be. In the scheme of things, not wearing a hijab is just not that big a deal compared to other types of sins. I don't mean to belittle it and I personally cover my hair and face so I have a healthy respect for our religious covering, but I think women are actually the ones who make it such an issue. Men have a dress code too but they are much easier on eachother about it LOL.

[gracesteacher]

As a health care worker I had a patient who I was told was Muslim and because of that I could only speak to the husband. I was allowed to do my job and look at her but not at her face unless I was doing so for medical purposes. She had to get permission to speak with me when I was asking health questions as pertaining to my job and as a female I was not allowed to look him in the face?

I was told this was a religious beliefs and not a cultural but honestly I dont know. I just did what made them most comfortable and was also able to get the best results.

 

Thank you this happen several years ago and I have always been curious if was religion or whatever their other reasons could be.

[Xuzi]

Am I correct in my understanding that only men attend Mosque? If so, what does religious observance/worship look like from the female side of Islam?

[nd293]

I'm curious about the specific instructions about modesty issues, and why they are interpreted differently by different people? Or is it simply, as with the Bible, that more emphasis has come to be put on some verses than others, so some Muslims just don't think the instruction to cover is particularly important?

 

We lived in a Muslim country (Ibadi Muslim, if that makes a difference) and the vast majority of local women certainly did cover, but there was no pressure on others, Muslim or not, to cover their hair. Other modesty issues such as not shaking hands with the opposite sex were occasionally encountered, but did not seem to get as much attention. People were generally very kind, though, and may have simply been making exceptions for our non-Muslim failure to understand 'the rules'.

 

 

 

[NicAnn]

For those living in the US, how has your experience been when people find out you're Muslim?

[nd293]

... and what has the experience of converts been like, particularly those who have not converted then married a born-Muslim? I briefly met a Western woman who had converted, along with her husband. She wore jeans and a long sleeve shirt and covered her hair in a 'trendy' style, rather than a traditional draped scarf. I was always curious about how much space there was for her to bring her own interpretation of Islam to her conversion. She seems so different to local Muslim women, that I wondered if she fit in at all. She also seemed separate from the secular expat women - it looked like a lonely place to be. I am not quite sure what I'm asking... perhaps it's whether there is a movements towards a 'more modern' interpretation of an Islamic lifestyle that is still devout, but looks more western than Arabic in dress styles etc.

[Amy in TX]

I just want to add that veiling, while I personally do believe it is obligatory, is not really as big a deal as people make it out to be. In the scheme of things, not wearing a hijab is just not that big a deal compared to other types of sins. I don't mean to belittle it and I personally cover my hair and face so I have a healthy respect for our religious covering, but I think women are actually the ones who make it such an issue. Men have a dress code too but they are much easier on eachother about it LOL.

 

 

Yes! Perhaps because it is something concrete and visible, people, both Muslim and non, attach much more significance to it than to other, more major aspects of the faith. I also believe it's obligatory, and I do it, but I know many women who are better Muslims than I in so many ways, who don't cover their hair.

[Amy in TX]

As a health care worker I had a patient who I was told was Muslim and because of that I could only speak to the husband. I was allowed to do my job and look at her but not at her face unless I was doing so for medical purposes. She had to get permission to speak with me when I was asking health questions as pertaining to my job and as a female I was not allowed to look him in the face?

I was told this was a religious beliefs and not a cultural but honestly I dont know. I just did what made them most comfortable and was also able to get the best results.

 

Thank you this happen several years ago and I have always been curious if was religion or whatever their other reasons could be.

 

 

This seems like a cultural practice to me--I don't know any reason why a woman shouldn't be able to speak to her female health care worker. Or why you shouldn't have been able to see her face. Regardless of how strict one is about covering or contact with men (and some cultures go way beyond what is required), there is general consensus that necessary medical treatment trumps modesty rules.

[Corraleno]

I'm not Muslim but I'm currently in Turkey, and in Istanbul the vast majority of women do not cover. I'd say maybe 10-15 percent wear a head cover. In fact, there were plenty of short skirts, jeans, etc. In the countryside, it seems to be more 50/50, and in the villages we've been to I've seen few younger women, and the older women have been traditionally dressed. In the mosque, the women were worshipping in a separate area.

 

Jackie

 

[SKL]

I've read the Quran several times, and I am curious as to why some of the rules are so extremely different for women. For example, when a Muslim breaks a rule (homosexual behavior for example), there is punishment but if a man repents, then there is forgiveness. I don't see a parallel for the women. How do Muslims understand this? ... Another question - I have been told by someone from a diverse but majority Muslim location that if a non-Muslim dates or marries a Muslim, the non-Muslim must convert or risk severe repercussions, even up to death. But I have a Muslim friend who is married to a Hindu. And the Muslim wife's mom and brother (who married an American) have lived with this couple and seem unfazed by the interfaith match. They throw parties for Divali and Eid etc. Is there a religious prohibition against this, or is that made up by a subset of Muslims looking for an excuse to attack other faiths? ... Third. The Quran mentions "holy war" from time to time. Is it accurate to say that most Muslims believe this refers to the "war within" between godly choices and worldly ones? ... Fourth. Do Muslims feel they worship the "same God" as Christians and Jews? (Understanding that they do not view Jesus as God; I'm talking about what Christians call "God the Father.")

[Amy in TX]

Am I correct in my understanding that only men attend Mosque? If so, what does religious observance/worship look like from the female side of Islam?

 

 

Not quite. Only men are required to attend the Friday prayer at the mosque; for women it's optional. Women are not prohibited from worshipping in the mosque, but in some places men actually try to keep them out. It's always been a problem--there are reports (hadiths) of the Prophet telling men not to stop women from going to mosques.

 

The thing about worshipping in the mosque is that it looks pretty much like worshipping at home. Basically you are performing the ritual prayers, which can be done alone or in a group. All the five daily prayers can be done either at home or at the mosque; the Friday noon prayer is also preceded by a sermon and is obligatory for men to do at the mosque. Myself, when my dc were too little to sit quietly for half an hour, I did that prayer at home. Now that they are older, we go to the mosque for the Friday prayer. Some women do like I did, and others come all the time with their babies.

[Amy in TX]

I'm curious about the specific instructions about modesty issues, and why they are interpreted differently by different people? Or is it simply, as with the Bible, that more emphasis has come to be put on some verses than others, so some Muslims just don't think the instruction to cover is particularly important?

 

We lived in a Muslim country (Ibadi Muslim, if that makes a difference) and the vast majority of local women certainly did cover, but there was no pressure on others, Muslim or not, to cover their hair. Other modesty issues such as not shaking hands with the opposite sex were occasionally encountered, but did not seem to get as much attention. People were generally very kind, though, and may have simply been making exceptions for our non-Muslim failure to understand 'the rules'.

 

 

Yes, in some cultures the rule about covering the hair gets a LOT more emphasis than in others. I don't know why. In my experience, most Pakistani Muslim women don't cover their hair. The ones who do are the exceptions, and even get flack about it--I know women who cover against the wishes of their husband or their parents. I always think it's ironic when people assume that she is covering because her husband or father is forcing her to. Sometimes the mother will get upset if her daughter wants to wear hijab--"No one will marry you!"

 

That may not have been a very helpful answer, lol. But this is what I've seen in my husband's family.

[Amy in TX]

For those living in the US, how has your experience been when people find out you're Muslim?

 

 

For me, generally good. I converted about 20 years ago. My parents were a little worried because of common perceptions of oppressed Muslim women, but once they met my husband's parents, they were okay with it--his parents and mine have gotten along famously from the beginning. It's not that way for everyone, but thank God, in our families it's been fine.

 

The only negative experiences I have ever had being a hijab-wearing Muslim in public were a few dirty looks from people in the months after 9/11.

[Amy in TX]

... and what has the experience of converts been like, particularly those who have not converted then married a born-Muslim? I briefly met a Western woman who had converted, along with her husband. She wore jeans and a long sleeve shirt and covered her hair in a 'trendy' style, rather than a traditional draped scarf. I was always curious about how much space there was for her to bring her own interpretation of Islam to her conversion. She seems so different to local Muslim women, that I wondered if she fit in at all. She also seemed separate from the secular expat women - it looked like a lonely place to be. I am not quite sure what I'm asking... perhaps it's whether there is a movements towards a 'more modern' interpretation of an Islamic lifestyle that is still devout, but looks more western than Arabic in dress styles etc.

 

 

That woman's style sounds more or less like mine. I most often wear jeans and long-sleeved shirts. I don't wrap my scarf around the head twice or pin it like many women do, mainly because I don't like it tight. I choose scarves that aren't slippery and that stay in place when draped over my head and the ends tossed over my shoulders.

 

I can't speak to her experience because she is in a different community--one with expats, so a Muslim country somewhere?--and I am in the US. I couldn't say whether she fits in with the Muslim community there or not. But as to western-looking dress, from a religious standpoint, anything goes as long as it covers loosely. Different cultures have different styles, and there is no one national dress that is the "correct" one. American Muslim women often wear American clothing--we just choose long sleeves and sizes that aren't tight. And add the scarf.

[Amy in TX]

I've read the Quran several times, and I am curious as to why some of the rules are so extremely different for women. For example, when a Muslim breaks a rule (homosexual behavior for example), there is punishment but if a man repents, then there is forgiveness. I don't see a parallel for the women. How do Muslims understand this?

 

 

I'm not quite understanding you here: can you give me some quotes from the Quran that illustrate your point? I'm not sure what punishment there is for homosexual behavior, and whether it would be different for men and women.

 

Could you give any other specific examples of the Quran specifying different punishments for the same sin for men vs. women? Then I'll do my best to answer.

[Shahrazad]

As a health care worker I had a patient who I was told was Muslim and because of that I could only speak to the husband. I was allowed to do my job and look at her but not at her face unless I was doing so for medical purposes. She had to get permission to speak with me when I was asking health questions as pertaining to my job and as a female I was not allowed to look him in the face?

I was told this was a religious beliefs and not a cultural but honestly I dont know. I just did what made them most comfortable and was also able to get the best results.

 

Thank you this happen several years ago and I have always been curious if was religion or whatever their other reasons could be.

 

 

Not at all religious, possibly a bit cultural (though I'm not sure which culture this would be a real norm in), and mostly just a controlling, domineering guy with the type of personality that no faith has a complete monopoly on. Firstly, a woman does not need permission from her husband to speak (ever), and especially with a female health professional. There is no reason that she should not have shown you her face. A woman is permitted to uncover in front of other women. There are some people who take the view that they don't uncover their hair (not their face) in front of non-Muslim women out of fear that (perhaps out of ignorance), their physical appearance might be described to other men. I don't take this view at all because I don't know who would be so interested in what I look like that they'd be describing my hair and appearance in detail to men lol though I do know one person who did this to be vindictive so I used to keep my hair covered around her. However, even if someone took this view it would not extend toward healthcare. When necessary for healthcare if there are no women who can treat her and it is a serious issue, a woman can even uncover her private parts in front of a male doctor. Many of the middle eastern ladies i knew had their babies delivered by male OBs. As for looking you in the face, he had that confused because you are welcome to look at him however you like but HE is supposed to lower HIS gaze out of modesty and respect for you. Ick. People like that make my blood boil.

 

 

Am I correct in my understanding that only men attend Mosque? If so, what does religious observance/worship look like from the female side of Islam?

 

 

Both men and women are welcome to attend the mosque. Most mosques also have specialized womens lessons on a day in addition to their regular lessons. Women simply are not obligated to pray there in the way that men are. For example, men are supposed to pray all of their daily prayers at the mosque (most are not able and take advantage of the exception provided by the teaching that it is obligatory on those who hear the athan-call to prayer from the mosque which is not usually the case in western countries, so they are able to pray at work/home) and are obligated to pray the friday prayer and go to the friday sermon. Women can go as well and Islam guarantees their right to go, their husband cannot deny them to go for example. They just are not sinful if they don't attend. I often go on fridays and on the nights during ramadan and the women's area is always full.

 

 

I'm curious about the specific instructions about modesty issues, and why they are interpreted differently by different people? Or is it simply, as with the Bible, that more emphasis has come to be put on some verses than others, so some Muslims just don't think the instruction to cover is particularly important?

 

We lived in a Muslim country (Ibadi Muslim, if that makes a difference) and the vast majority of local women certainly did cover, but there was no pressure on others, Muslim or not, to cover their hair. Other modesty issues such as not shaking hands with the opposite sex were occasionally encountered, but did not seem to get as much attention. People were generally very kind, though, and may have simply been making exceptions for our non-Muslim failure to understand 'the rules'.

 

 

Most of the difference comes down to the translation and interpretation of a specific verse. I find that most people who think that covering the hair is not required are depending on interpretration through the translation and whether the verse replies to dressing modestly and covering your bosom or covering your hair as well. I personally don't understand how it can be debated reading the original Arabic but I understand there are many people who see differently. On the other hand, some may feel it is obligatory but just choose not to cover or not feel ready for it yet. I have always found many people from middle eastern countries to be extremely forgiving and understanding of mistakes made by people out of ignorance and for people who are not practicing as much as they are, perhaps. When I was newly learning, I did and said many things that embarass me and make me want to put a bag over my head when I encounter those people, but they never responded negatively and even when I've brought it up as an apology later, have brushed it off as being no big deal.

 

 

I've read the Quran several times, and I am curious as to why some of the rules are so extremely different for women. For example, when a Muslim breaks a rule (homosexual behavior for example), there is punishment but if a man repents, then there is forgiveness. I don't see a parallel for the women. How do Muslims understand this? ... Another question - I have been told by someone from a diverse but majority Muslim location that if a non-Muslim dates or marries a Muslim, the non-Muslim must convert or risk severe repercussions, even up to death. But I have a Muslim friend who is married to a Hindu. And the Muslim wife's mom and brother (who married an American) have lived with this couple and seem unfazed by the interfaith match. They throw parties for Divali and Eid etc. Is there a religious prohibition against this, or is that made up by a subset of Muslims looking for an excuse to attack other faiths? ... Third. The Quran mentions "holy war" from time to time. Is it accurate to say that most Muslims believe this refers to the "war within" between godly choices and worldly ones? ... Fourth. Do Muslims feel they worship the "same God" as Christians and Jews? (Understanding that they do not view Jesus as God; I'm talking about what Christians call "God the Father.")

 

 

Let me try to break these down:

1. I'm not really sure where you are got this. The punishments don't really differ by gender. The punishment for what you mentioned would be the same for men and women and both their repentences and forgiveness is the same. The only thing I can come up with is perhaps the translation sticking with a specific pronoun when it applies to both genders may have added some confusion. For example, unmarried adultery is the same punishment for either gender and married adultery is the same punishment for both genders....there really is no difference in punishment, repentence, or forgiveness.

 

2. Maybe this was true where they grew up but it is not true in Islam or even in many Muslim countries. The thing is, Muslims aren't supposed to date or have relationships outside of marriage period. The way Muslims 'date' is quite different and typically supervised and with the intent of marriage. Some people choose to break this rule though but this is not something where there would really be severe repercussions and certainly not death. It is definitely more common for men to break this rule for the same reason it is often more common for men to cheat (ie not thinking with their brains *ahem*).It is discouraged but permissible for a man to marry a non-Muslim woman if she is a chaste 'person of the book'. A Hindu would not fall into this category though unless they converted or became a Christian or Jew. I'm told this is a common occurrence in India (for Muslims and Hindus to marry despite the prohibition) however I've heard from the same people it is not uncommon for a Muslim to go to a Hindu temple and take part in acts of worship with them which would be pretty much the biggest sin you could commit as a Muslim. To marry a Muslim woman, the man would have to convert to Islam otherwise the marriage would not be considered 'valid'. However none of these situations would result in death or the type of punishment you're speaking of. I'd assume it is just people taking it upon themselves because they don't agree but I've also never heard of the non-Muslim girlfriend being threatened or facing repercussions for example, even overseas. It is worth noting that things like honor killings, while uncommon, take place in the Christian community in these countries too and it is definitely a cultural thing without relation to religion.

 

3. I spoke about this on the other thread so I will paste my response here and if you have any further questions on it, please feel free to ask:

 

The main area I see quoted by the anti-Islam websites is the ones about killing disbelievers or the 'kill them wherever you find them' verses however those verses were directed toward the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companions when they were fighting the aggressors of the pre-Islamic pagans in a major battle. It was during declared war. And the following verse even mentions that if one of the enemy you are fightingcomes to you asking for refuge and shelter that you GRANT it to him (I mean, what faith, especially at that time, would order such a thing?)

 

As for jihad, there are multiple types of jihad (ex:jihad an-nafs, the fight against the soul and the temptations of the world). The main jihad you hear people refer to on the news is the fighting one, obviously, but there are very specific requirements that are currently not being met for such a thing to exist (there is no amir and there needs to be education and purification amongst the people first, otherwise there is problems like we're having now!). The exception would be if you are IN YOUR HOME defending yourself from an intruder or aggressor. You're told that if you enter your innermost room and lock yourself inside and the aggressor enters upon you to repel them with a force equal to their own and if you die you are a martyr. This would be the equivalent of if someone breaks into your house to kill your family and you shoot them or fight them off.

 

Most importantly, when there is a clear and declared war between a Muslim land and another (and I mean clear, declared, and accepted on both sides and of course, as mentioned above there are the stipulations which cannot be currently met re: jihad) the following rules apply:

 

1. You CANNOT commit suicide. To do so means you will get punishment in hell. Some scholars even said that if a person does this they should not be prayed over or buried with the Muslims. The EXCEPTION is when a person is mentally ill because they are not considered responsible for their actions.

 

2. It is absolutely forbidden to kill women, children, the elderly, the disabled, and the mentally ill under any circumstances (even as collateral damage).

 

3. You cannot kill civilians (non-fighters).

 

4. And, again, as mentioned above, if someone asks for refuge you grant it to them.

 

5. One thing I forgot and would like to add here is that EVEN in declared war, EVEN if all the other conditions are met, lets say that you and the other side are meeting to discuss something (so this is not concerning civilians but we're talking about soldiers), it is forbidden for them to attack during this time until the fighting has been agreed to resume so no thinking, hey we can end this right now if I just stab this leader while we're discussing terms....that would be considered murder.

 

This is all taken from the Qur'an and Hadeeth (prophetic narrations).

 

4. Yes, Muslims worship the same God as the Christians and the Jews with the exception that we do not include Jesus in our definition of God. Allah is the God of Abraham, the God of Moses, the God of Jesus. It is simply the Arabic word for The God with the implication that He is The One and Only True God. We believe He revealed the Qur'an, Torah, The Psalms, and The Bible.

[Amy in TX]

Another question - I have been told by someone from a diverse but majority Muslim location that if a non-Muslim dates or marries a Muslim, the non-Muslim must convert or risk severe repercussions, even up to death. But I have a Muslim friend who is married to a Hindu. And the Muslim wife's mom and brother (who married an American) have lived with this couple and seem unfazed by the interfaith match. They throw parties for Divali and Eid etc. Is there a religious prohibition against this, or is that made up by a subset of Muslims looking for an excuse to attack other faiths?

 

 

It's true that a Muslim woman may not marry a Hindu man. But there is no punishment for it, it simply isn't considered a valid Muslim marriage. (There are surely places where if a woman did this there would be violent repercussions, but that's culture, not Islam.) It sounds like your friend's family has chosen to accept her marriage--I don't know them, so I can't explain why. Maybe they don't want to alienate their daughter, or maybe they are not particularly observant and don't care.

 

As for throwing Divali parties, I would understand that to be prohibited, because we are not supposed to practice other faiths, and celebrating the holidays of other faiths seems to me fall under that heading. Wish people well and congratulate them on their holidays, sure, but not actually do the celebrations.

 

ETA: I see that Shahrazad has very thoroughly answered all parts of your question, so I'll refer you to her post for the rest. :)

[Shahrazad]

For those living in the US, how has your experience been when people find out you're Muslim?

 

Interesting. Mostly negative, sadly. The non-Muslim side of my family hasn't been a real issue (at least not to my face), though my mother and grandmother enjoy arguing and debating me quite a bit over the things that they don't understand. I think it is difficult to understand in the same way it might be difficult for a liberal Episcopal or even UU mom to understand if their daughter became a devout Catholic who adhered strictly to Catholic principles...not so much the faith as it is the unfamiliarity of adhering more staunchly to religious principles rather than doing more of a pick and choose if that makes sense.

 

Outside, well, I'll say I am touched and sometimes even tear up when someone goes out of their way to be kind to me or make conversation. On the other hand, I've had people make gun signals at me, threaten me, give me dirty looks, laugh at me and make jokes, yell racial and religious slurs (all of this in front of my children). A person tried to pull my hijab off once from behind. I'm constantly annoyed at places when people keep asking me for my green card or passport despite the fact I repeatedly tell them that I am an American citizen (and then after that, they come back to ask me if there is any way I can come back and bring my green card). I also dislike when people ask me if I speak English despite the fact I clearly do. The worst, I think was experiencing discrimination by people in positions of authority (a nurse at a hospital, a secretary at my high school) and feeling helpless to change it. I'd say for the most part, I've become quite used to these things now and desensitized. I hardly notice anymore and it is only when I'm with people (like my mom) that she notices and gets upset at other people and points it out to me. I only wish that my children didn't have to hear some of the things people say to me.

[Shahrazad]

I hope no one minds me answering the convert questions as well. I'm both a born-Muslim and a revert, if that makes sense, as I have a weird background that I won't bore you with as I don't want to derail your questions.

 

... and what has the experience of converts been like, particularly those who have not converted then married a born-Muslim? I briefly met a Western woman who had converted, along with her husband. She wore jeans and a long sleeve shirt and covered her hair in a 'trendy' style, rather than a traditional draped scarf. I was always curious about how much space there was for her to bring her own interpretation of Islam to her conversion. She seems so different to local Muslim women, that I wondered if she fit in at all. She also seemed separate from the secular expat women - it looked like a lonely place to be. I am not quite sure what I'm asking... perhaps it's whether there is a movements towards a 'more modern' interpretation of an Islamic lifestyle that is still devout, but looks more western than Arabic in dress styles etc.

 

 

It is a common saying that 'the Islam we have here is the same Islam there'. Most Muslims believe that the true and pure Islam transcends culture and time so one wouldn't, for example, bring a western (or any other cultural) perspective to religious interpretation or feel the need for the faith to be updated. On the other hand, it is natural that all people will have their own personality and culture as it has been shaped and influenced by their upbringing so the thoughts and way of expressing those thoughts of someone from Britain, for example, would likely be quite different from a woman born and raised in Egypt. Some women do end up largely immersed in their husband's culture or adopting it if he is not American. Others do not. I think a lot of African-American converts who are married to eachother bring a unique perspective as a considerable number (while not all) practice a more orthodox form of Islam while not adopting Middle Eastern culture. I think that is interesting to see from an anthropological standpoint. As I said, some people throw themselves headfirst in a different culture and practically adopt it as their own, others, while adhering to Islam strictly, tend to insulate themselves to mostly other western converts because they have more in common. In terms of dress, I think that comes down largely to comfort and individual fashion sense. These days you may find American converts wearing middle eastern styles, and middle eastern Muslims wearing western styles LOL. Personally, I often where Gulf style abayas but I also often wear western-influenced clothes like the ones from here: www.shukronline.com

[UmMusa]

Hey there... another Muslim boardie chiming in. I hesitated on the other thread, but I'll see how I can answer some of these questions. Just an FYI, I chose to start practicing Islam about 9 years ago (meaning praying 5 times a day, fasting, wearing hijab, seeking knowledge, etc..). I was raised as a Muslim but more of a cultural one and not a practicing one. I had to relearn a lot of things I learned wrong growing up.

 

 

Here are some:

 

-If we see a woman wearing a head covering/veil (in the US), does that mean she is devout? Or could she be a cultural, but not practicing Muslim?

 

-What is the age range when girls are expected to start veiling? I've never researched it, but I seem to remember reading that some parents wait until puberty and others have their daughters start much younger.

 

-I saw a photo of a woman in a magazine. I believe she was the head of CAIR. She was not veiled. How common is it for a practicing Muslim woman to not cover her head?

 

 

- In the US (since you specified)I do think a woman in hijab (veil) would more likely be more devout than not just because there is no cultural pressure for a woman to just blend in with other women. In some other countries you definitely see women wearing a hijab who aren't doing it out of conviction; it's more an accepted way to dress when you are out.

 

- Accountability doesn't start till puberty, and that applies to fasting, praying, hijab, etc... When you see girls wearing it, it's usually just the kids liking to try it or the parents encouraging them to try it out before they get older. My 5yr old wore it her whole KG year by her own wishes, and I got so much heat for it. I swear I did NOT encourage her or tell her to do it, but she insisted everyday to put it on. Then one days she stopped.

 

- Practicing Islam comes in many levels. We all struggle to do our best in worship. The type of covering doesn't necessarily match up to any level of piety...

 

I know there are so many questions about Islam and what you see out there. I thank those of you who are truly trying to iron out some questions. For the first time in 10 years I am feeling some heat for being a Muslim. I've been fortunate, I guess.

[Free]

But I have a Muslim friend who is married to a Hindu. And the Muslim wife's mom and brother (who married an American) have lived with this couple and seem unfazed by the interfaith match. They throw parties for Divali and Eid etc.

 

They sound like Indian Muslims. Indian Muslims can be very inclusive in their practice of their faith.

[Rosie_0801]

www.shukronline.com

 

 

I should have checked out the clothing when I was down at the Muslim shop the other week! (The books and dvds were so cheap and they gave me a teacher discount. They are my newest favourite people. :D)

 

Please excuse the frivolous post. :blush:

[SproutMamaK]

What is the Muslim view on divorce & remarriage? How much does an opinion on those issues depend on the culture in which the person lives? Eg, would an American Muslim have a different view than say an Egyptian Muslim? (I have an acquaintance who is Muslim and is working on saving his third marriage... I've never wanted to ask if this is permissable in his faith for fear that it might be taken as an insult.)

[Juniper]

I have a question, but it is very awkward for me to ask. I apologize in advance if this is offensive, but I was laying in bed last night thinking, "I need to go to the Hive and ask this" and I haven't been here in forever, so please know there is a strong desire to understand the scenario I am about to describe.

 

I live in a very touristy town in Northern Michigan. This weekend starts our summer season and we get flooded with tourists. I work at a small gift shop and last week had a very difficult conversation with MIL (who is not often the most informed on religious and cultural dynamics.) She informed me that we were going to have a large influx of Muslim families this weekend and to be cautious :p

 

I gave her a weird look and she clarified. One of our co-workers is also a physical trainer at the local ski resort. This weekend, when there is some sort of Muslim conference going on, she has to have a security guard assigned to her for her own protection. I looked at MIL and said, "They couldn't possibly be Muslim."

 

I was wrong. The weekend started with groups of lovely Muslim women coming through the gift shop. The ladies were so much fun and very sweet. Then I went to my second job which is providing trail rides to tourists. This was a mixed group of men and women and it was totally different. :( The men who were older or Fathers were fine, but the young adult males used a lot of foul language and derisive comments towards myself and my fellow trail guide. We almost had to turn one ride around, but there were children I we just decided to get through it.

 

My younger BIL plays soccer and this weekend the fields are filled with the young Muslim men who have come to this retreat. Very quickly the local Sheriff (who is also the highschool soccer coach) had to come out and play as well, because things were becoming increasingly tense and heated.

 

I am so confused. Again the women and older men I have been beyond polite, but the 13 and up males have been a totally different story. I have never been treated with as much apparent disdain as I was by a little 13 yr old boy at the barn. Our town is small and I would say our population has increased by hundreds of Muslim families this weekend (we have increased in general, but this is a special event).

 

Again, I am so sorry to bring this up, but I didn't know where else to ask about it. Why are the young men behaving in this way? Is it some sort of group think thing that is happening? Please help me understand and figure out a way to help some dear friends overcome some deep seated fears. The young lady whom I work with (the physical trainer) bolted from the store when the Muslim ladies walked in. She was terrified. The whole situation is making me so sad.

[elegantlion]

I have a question about this phrase:

 

"As salaamu alaikum"

 

Please know what I know about Muslims is from here and TV shows (not the news). Obviously, I've learned more here.

 

What does this mean? I assume it is a greeting? Is is offensive for a non-Muslim to use it when greeting a Muslim.

 

Second question: I live in a very non-diverse area. It is rare to see a covering Muslim woman in our area. In some parts of our area, they would certainly be met with rude glances and perhaps comments. Besides a smile, is there anything to say/not to say when trying to chit chat. I'm assuming like in a store or grocery. I'm horrible at chit-chat, my mother is gifted in it. I always feel like I'm saying the wrong thing - so excuse if this seems like a stupid question. I could probably manage "Are you enjoying the weather?", "Your kids are lovely," stuff like that.

[Sisyphus]

My question is kind of dumb, lol. I take my 11 year old niece to or fro from dance class at least once a week, and next door is a Halal butcher/Pakistani grocery. We eat a lot of Indian food, and they carry fabulous stuff for far, far cheaper than International Groceries or Whole Foods, so I always combine a trip into the store for garlic or gar am masala or something. Anyway, the couple that owns it is Muslim, and I feel a bit funny when my niece is in tow, dressed in tiny dance clothes, and the owner is in hijab, and her little daughters are pretty covered (but not hair, they are 4-7). I've never been treated with anything but polite behavior, but I wonder, is it disrespectful of me to have her dressed like that in the store? She meets state "no shirt, no shoes, no service" code...but just barely, lol. Personally, I think she should have some sort of cover up for going to and fro from dance, but I'm not her mom.

[Amy in TX]

What is the Muslim view on divorce & remarriage? How much does an opinion on those issues depend on the culture in which the person lives? Eg, would an American Muslim have a different view than say an Egyptian Muslim? (I have an acquaintance who is Muslim and is working on saving his third marriage... I've never wanted to ask if this is permissable in his faith for fear that it might be taken as an insult.)

 

The Muslim view of divorce is that it is permissible, but disliked. In our view, it should be a rare last resort. I believe it's been called "the most hated of all permissible things." But it may be initiated by the man or the woman, after they have followed a series of other steps including family mediation.

 

Remarriage is permissible for either party.

 

I'm sure that how easy/common divorce is varies from culture to culture. I'm most familiar with Pakistani culture b/c my dh was born there. In Pakistan, at least until very recently, divorce was very rare, and pretty much meant the end of a person's social acceptability, particularly for the woman. Men found it much easier to remarry than women. And the social stigma against it has been so strong that women would generally not seek divorce even in insufferable marriages, with extreme brutality, etc.

 

That's changing rapidly, I think, particularly among Pakistani-Americans. The divorce rate has exploded in this generation. I have mixed feelings about that--on the one hand, it's good that women have an easier time leaving horrific marriages; on the other hand, the marriage bond also seems to be taken less seriously and marriages are breaking up quickly, without deliberation, over less grave issues.

 

Maybe someone else knows about Egypt?

[Amy in TX]

I have a question, but it is very awkward for me to ask. I apologize in advance if this is offensive, but I was laying in bed last night thinking, "I need to go to the Hive and ask this" and I haven't been here in forever, so please know there is a strong desire to understand the scenario I am about to describe.

 

I live in a very touristy town in Northern Michigan. This weekend starts our summer season and we get flooded with tourists. I work at a small gift shop and last week had a very difficult conversation with MIL (who is not often the most informed on religious and cultural dynamics.) She informed me that we were going to have a large influx of Muslim families this weekend and to be cautious :p

 

I gave her a weird look and she clarified. One of our co-workers is also a physical trainer at the local ski resort. This weekend, when there is some sort of Muslim conference going on, she has to have a security guard assigned to her for her own protection. I looked at MIL and said, "They couldn't possibly be Muslim."

 

I was wrong. The weekend started with groups of lovely Muslim women coming through the gift shop. The ladies were so much fun and very sweet. Then I went to my second job which is providing trail rides to tourists. This was a mixed group of men and women and it was totally different. :( The men who were older or Fathers were fine, but the young adult males used a lot of foul language and derisive comments towards myself and my fellow trail guide. We almost had to turn one ride around, but there were children I we just decided to get through it.

 

My younger BIL plays soccer and this weekend the fields are filled with the young Muslim men who have come to this retreat. Very quickly the local Sheriff (who is also the highschool soccer coach) had to come out and play as well, because things were becoming increasingly tense and heated.

 

I am so confused. Again the women and older men I have been beyond polite, but the 13 and up males have been a totally different story. I have never been treated with as much apparent disdain as I was by a little 13 yr old boy at the barn. Our town is small and I would say our population has increased by hundreds of Muslim families this weekend (we have increased in general, but this is a special event).

 

Again, I am so sorry to bring this up, but I didn't know where else to ask about it. Why are the young men behaving in this way? Is it some sort of group think thing that is happening? Please help me understand and figure out a way to help some dear friends overcome some deep seated fears. The young lady whom I work with (the physical trainer) bolted from the store when the Muslim ladies walked in. She was terrified. The whole situation is making me so sad.

 

Juniper, I don't know why this happened. The older men and all the women were nice and friendly, and the young men were obnoxious? I don't know of a particular reason and it pains me to hear that, of course. I can't imagine my sons behaving that way to anyone, and they'd certainly be punished if they did.

 

I'm not quite clear on why one person felt the need of a bodyguard (before the Muslims came to town?), and why the girl in your store was afraid of the Muslim women. Could you clarify?

[Amy in TX]

I have a question about this phrase:

 

"As salaamu alaikum"

 

Please know what I know about Muslims is from here and TV shows (not the news). Obviously, I've learned more here.

 

What does this mean? I assume it is a greeting? Is is offensive for a non-Muslim to use it when greeting a Muslim.

 

Second question: I live in a very non-diverse area. It is rare to see a covering Muslim woman in our area. In some parts of our area, they would certainly be met with rude glances and perhaps comments. Besides a smile, is there anything to say/not to say when trying to chit chat. I'm assuming like in a store or grocery. I'm horrible at chit-chat, my mother is gifted in it. I always feel like I'm saying the wrong thing - so excuse if this seems like a stupid question. I could probably manage "Are you enjoying the weather?", "Your kids are lovely," stuff like that.

 

As salaamu alaikum means "peace be upon you," and it's how Muslims are supposed to greet one another. Occasionally a non-Muslim will greet me with it, and I find that friendly and charming. :)

 

It's lovely of you to want to be friendly to a woman who in your area may be expecting rudeness. I myself really, really appreciated that in the days after 9/11 especially. You know how some posters have said that they are afraid of men in middle-eastern dress with beards? Well, I will confess that, particularly after 9/11, I (like Shahrazad mentioned above) was afraid of men in rural areas in pickup trucks wearing cowboy hats. (Please no flames, and I apologize to all the fine men who fit that category. Fear sometimes makes us irrational.) Anyway, we were driving from New Orleans to Houston, and about halfway stopped in a little town in Louisiana so the kids could go to the bathroom. A man in a black cowboy hat was watching us. I was nervous, and hustling my then 3yo ds out as quickly as possible. As we passed his table, the man gave me the biggest, sweetest smile and said, "Hi, ma'am." I could have kissed him.

 

My point is that it doesn't matter one tiny bit what you say. A smile is soooo nice.

[poppy]

I have a question about this phrase:

 

"As salaamu alaikum"

 

Please know what I know about Muslims is from here and TV shows (not the news). Obviously, I've learned more here.

 

What does this mean? I assume it is a greeting? Is is offensive for a non-Muslim to use it when greeting a Muslim.

 

Second question: I live in a very non-diverse area. It is rare to see a covering Muslim woman in our area. In some parts of our area, they would certainly be met with rude glances and perhaps comments. Besides a smile, is there anything to say/not to say when trying to chit chat. I'm assuming like in a store or grocery. I'm horrible at chit-chat, my mother is gifted in it. I always feel like I'm saying the wrong thing - so excuse if this seems like a stupid question. I could probably manage "Are you enjoying the weather?", "Your kids are lovely," stuff like that.

 

 

Not a Muslim here, and not answering on behalf of that religion, but I do have an anecdote. My Catholic priest growing up (1980s) used the phrase "salaam alaikum" at every Mass. It translates to "peace be with you". I don't know if that way of phrasing is part of the standard Mass, he was an academic priest with an interest in language and translation issues. The phrase "Peace be with you" is definitely part of standard mass. Anyway just saying that is phrase whose meaning, if not exact use, certainly bridges faiths.

[Amy in TX]

My question is kind of dumb, lol. I take my 11 year old niece to or fro from dance class at least once a week, and next door is a Halal butcher/Pakistani grocery. We eat a lot of Indian food, and they carry fabulous stuff for far, far cheaper than International Groceries or Whole Foods, so I always combine a trip into the store for garlic or gar am masala or something. Anyway, the couple that owns it is Muslim, and I feel a bit funny when my niece is in tow, dressed in tiny dance clothes, and the owner is in hijab, and her little daughters are pretty covered (but not hair, they are 4-7). I've never been treated with anything but polite behavior, but I wonder, is it disrespectful of me to have her dressed like that in the store? She meets state "no shirt, no shoes, no service" code...but just barely, lol. Personally, I think she should have some sort of cover up for going to and fro from dance, but I'm not her mom.

 

I wouldn't worry about it. I'm sure they are used to seeing people in the store dressed all kinds of ways. That's how it is in the halal stores where I live. They won't be expecting non-Muslims to follow Muslim dress codes. :)

[Aelwydd]

I am curious and impressed by the Arabic/ Middle Eastern emphasis on hospitality. I guess this not so much a question as a wish that this element of culture was discussed and explored more. I have read that many Islamic families consider personal hospitality to be a point of honor.

[Juniper]

Juniper, I don't know why this happened. The older men and all the women were nice and friendly, and the young men were obnoxious? I don't know of a particular reason and it pains me to hear that, of course. I can't imagine my sons behaving that way to anyone, and they'd certainly be punished if they did.

 

I'm not quite clear on why one person felt the need of a bodyguard (before the Muslims came to town?), and why the girl in your store was afraid of the Muslim women. Could you clarify?

 

 

Sorry, I knew that was going to be unclear. It is the same young woman, she works in two locations. One at the ski resort where she is a personal trainer...the other a little gift shop in the village. She is only assigned a bodyguard for the weekend the Muslim families are here and only while working as a personal trainer. Her bodyguard/security person has had to remove a few young men from the building that were giving her a particularly rough time. She bolted from the store out of fear and the fact that we don't have bodyguards (I never felt the need, but the gift shop caters to women for the most part). All she had time to see was a large group of ladies wearing full coverings. She is a sweet young girl, not particularly religious and I could tell it was just a terrified flight reaction.

 

I know it is not the norm and the whole situation is making me very sad. I think I am struggling with it, because there just isn't a way to deny what we are experiencing.

 

I will say the groups that are just young women we have taken a trail rides have been incredibly sweet. It really is just the unattached males that are giving us a rough time, but there are hundreds of them!!!!

[stripe]

What is the Muslim view on divorce & remarriage? How much does an opinion on those issues depend on the culture in which the person lives? Eg, would an American Muslim have a different view than say an Egyptian Muslim? (I have an acquaintance who is Muslim and is working on saving his third marriage... I've never wanted to ask if this is permissable in his faith for fear that it might be taken as an insult.)

Divorce is allowed in Islam. Remarriage is allowed in Islam. While it's not encouraged to get divorced frivolously, it's not so much the "married for life" expectation or specification of some Chritstian groups.

 

Some cultures are very weird about this, for lack of a better word. Saudi women almost never get remarried after a divorce, for example. it's kind of scandalous. In other cultures it is fine.

 

I am sorry to say, about the issue of rude people, some people just don't behave, and are very pushy in public and thoroughly obnoxious. I think maybe being really aggressive is somehow the only way to get anything done in some countries, and some immigrants continue that here, and just refuse to stand in line. It is totally embarassing and bad, and there's no excuse for it.

 

I do not think Sisyphus should worry about what she or her niece wears to the halal grocery store. It would be a stupid business owner who would complain about a new customer. Don't worry about it. A lot of Arab/Indian/Pakistani girls dress very fancily without covering their hair anyway.

[Amy in TX]

I will say the groups that are just young women we have taken a trail rides have been incredibly sweet. It really is just the unattached males that are giving us a rough time, but there are hundreds of them!!!!

 

 

I'm sorry! That's just awful. And it'll make everyone in your town unwilling to host Muslims again.

[Juniper]

 

 

I am sorry to say, about the issue of rude people, some people just don't behave, and are very pushy in public and thoroughly obnoxious. I think maybe being really aggressive is somehow the only way to get anything done in some countries, and some immigrants continue that here, and just refuse to stand in line. It is totally embarassing and bad, and there's no excuse for it. At my local mosque, which is dominated by one ethnic group to which neither my husband nor I belong, people just can't park right and it's an issue every single week! People even hit other cars and don't leave a note. It's just bad, bad, bad, and I am sorry for anyone who has to deal with this. And at the same time, if you went to those people's houses for dinner, they would be really nice to you.

 

 

 

 

I think this a bit of a response on regards to my post. That has been my thought. My Eastern Orthodox parish in Houston was of the Antiochian jurisdiction which means we had a lot of middle eastern families. They were pushier :) I have felt it was a bit of "clash of cultures" but, even if I allow for that it is creating fear in our community. We are very dependent on the revenue that tourist season brings, so in many ways we are going out of our way to accommodate and be hospitable.

 

I am also thinking there is a bit of the "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas," (even though it isn't Vegas) thinking going on. Basically, doing things on vacation, because you know you will be leaving once your vacation is over.

 

The whole thing is just so foreign to what I have come to know about Islam.

[elegantlion]

I am curious and impressed by the Arabic/ Middle Eastern emphasis on hospitality. I guess this not so much a question as a wish that this element of culture was discussed and explored more. I have read that many Islamic families consider personal hospitality to be a point of honor.

 

Just to add a comment on this, this year ds and I listened to the Vandiver lectures on The Odyssey.She spends a lot of time discussing xenia, the ancient Greek concept of hospitality. It was a fascinating look into the guest-host relationship and how it could even play out for later generations.

[Juniper]

 

 

I'm sorry! That's just awful. And it'll make everyone in your town unwilling to host Muslims again.

 

That is my concern, but at this point it is just really tense. I am just going to put it down to Spring Fever and hope that my story somehow makes mothers, fathers and religious leaders a bit aware of what might be happening to the community they are visiting.

[elegantlion]

 

My point is that it doesn't matter one tiny bit what you say. A smile is soooo nice.

 

Thank you, very helpful.

[SKL]

Regarding the young Muslim men / teens being obnoxious - were these Muslims from a more "traditional" country than the US? I saw a bit of this from foreign college students from South Asia, for example. Their understanding of American women is limited and comes from Hollywood movies to a large extent. One told me, quite innocently, that he understood there is no American female over age 13 who is a virgin. !! Beyond that, a couple things many American women do are read as sexually suggestive in some countries. One, drinking alcohol. Two, dressing in skin-tight clothes or showing much skin. The personal trainer would have been at risk because her work clothes probably made her look, to certain foreigners, like a . . . well, you can insert whatever word you are comfortable with. And I doubt the culture trains young men to be highly respectful of women in that category. ... I had an awful experience at my house with a man (not Muslim) from a certain country, who had drunk too much whiskey. He assumed that a woman who drank a beer was very available (despite being married etc.), and in his drunken state, put his hands where they didn't belong. (He did apologize profusely after he sobered up, but his daughter told me that culturally, the beer drinking put the woman at risk.)

[Spy Car]

I have a follow-up question about the greeting "As salaamu alaikum" (peace be with you, or peace be upon you) and the response "wa alaikum es salaam" (and upon you be peace).

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but but "alaikum" (upon you) is in the Second Person Plural, yes? So it is like saying "peace be upon you all." But the phrase is used when addressng both individuals and groups. So I'm imagining there is some underlying significance to using the plural form universally, but I've never seen it discussed.

 

Any insights?

 

Bill

[stripe]

It's to greet angels as well.

 

About this topic of people behaving wildly, I have seen with my own eyes and heard about (including from their own mouths!) white American men behave pretty poorly when on vacation in Asia, Latin America, and Africa. They tend to look for a vacation girlfriend, for example. I've seen personal ads asking for someone during their vacation. I have seen middle aged white American and European women adopt a young "native" boyfriend on vacation too. They seem to think that population is either anxious to be with them or easily won over by ca$h and goods. It is not pretty.

[Kate in Arabia]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but but "alaikum" (upon you) is in the Second Person Plural, yes? So it is like saying "peace be upon you all." But the phrase is used when addressng both individuals and groups. So I'm imagining there is some underlying significance to using the plural form universally, but I've never seen it discussed.

Umm... you can hear either, really. I hear "as-salaamu alaiki" (you, singular, feminine) or "as-salaamu alaika" (you, singular, masculine) sometimes as well.

 

So "alaikum" is the standard/default, but you also hear the singular. I can say, for myself, if I was going to greet someone and wanted to be formal/respectful, I would definitely say "alaikum" even if it was just one person. Using singular in that context seems odd to me. But I use the plural most of the time anyway.

 

The one version I have never used -- even when grammatically correct -- is the dual -- as-salaamu alaikumaa. I might if I was talking to a couple of friends and trying to be feisty, lol. You don't often hear the dual in everyday conversation.

 

hth, maybe someone else has some thoughts.

 

 

 

(edited to fix typo)

[Shahrazad]

What is the Muslim view on divorce & remarriage? How much does an opinion on those issues depend on the culture in which the person lives? Eg, would an American Muslim have a different view than say an Egyptian Muslim? (I have an acquaintance who is Muslim and is working on saving his third marriage... I've never wanted to ask if this is permissable in his faith for fear that it might be taken as an insult.)

 

Divorce is perfectly permissible in Islam and IMHO opinion easier to do than to do it legally in the US ;). It is not encouraged to be done for frivolous reasons, as Stripe mentioned, but Islam does not require or encourage a person to stay unhappy in their marriage and especially not to stay in a marriage where they fear harm will come to them (whether physically or emotionally). It is true that some cultures make it more difficult and more of a taboo and in many cultures there is a social stigma attached (usually to the women) although that is not rooted in religion. Actually, I have always remarked upon how nonchalant divorce seemed at the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him). Many of the female companions were divorced and remarried, many of them did so multiple times. They were not looked down upon and no one seemed to think it was abnormal. So, this stigma is really more of a new thing. Even so, I think some cultures are more upon this than others and that divorce is becoming much more acceptable in Middle Eastern countries (like Egypt), especially among the newer generations (ask my grandparents on the other hand, and their view would be much different than that of my parents). I know some women raised in the middle east quite conservatively who have been divorced multiple times and it is just no big deal. Nowadays I know A LOT of divorcees even among girls my own age I grew up with.

 

In Islam, divorce can either be husband-initiated or wife-initiated. If the husband initiates he bears responsibility for supporting his ex-wife financially for a set duration of time. If the wife initiates, she simply returns the dowry her husband gave her when they married and she forfeits support for herself however in both cases the children are to be completely financially supported by the father and the mother is as well if she is breastfeeding (or pregnant) until she weans (or delivers). Does everyone follow the legal guidelines set out? Not quite. We do unfortunately have 'deadbeat dads' too. But they are supposed to provide that support :).

 

I have a question, but it is very awkward for me to ask. I apologize in advance if this is offensive, but I was laying in bed last night thinking, "I need to go to the Hive and ask this" and I haven't been here in forever, so please know there is a strong desire to understand the scenario I am about to describe.

 

I live in a very touristy town in Northern Michigan. This weekend starts our summer season and we get flooded with tourists. I work at a small gift shop and last week had a very difficult conversation with MIL (who is not often the most informed on religious and cultural dynamics.) She informed me that we were going to have a large influx of Muslim families this weekend and to be cautious :p

 

I gave her a weird look and she clarified. One of our co-workers is also a physical trainer at the local ski resort. This weekend, when there is some sort of Muslim conference going on, she has to have a security guard assigned to her for her own protection. I looked at MIL and said, "They couldn't possibly be Muslim."

 

I was wrong. The weekend started with groups of lovely Muslim women coming through the gift shop. The ladies were so much fun and very sweet. Then I went to my second job which is providing trail rides to tourists. This was a mixed group of men and women and it was totally different. :( The men who were older or Fathers were fine, but the young adult males used a lot of foul language and derisive comments towards myself and my fellow trail guide. We almost had to turn one ride around, but there were children I we just decided to get through it.

 

My younger BIL plays soccer and this weekend the fields are filled with the young Muslim men who have come to this retreat. Very quickly the local Sheriff (who is also the highschool soccer coach) had to come out and play as well, because things were becoming increasingly tense and heated.

 

I am so confused. Again the women and older men I have been beyond polite, but the 13 and up males have been a totally different story. I have never been treated with as much apparent disdain as I was by a little 13 yr old boy at the barn. Our town is small and I would say our population has increased by hundreds of Muslim families this weekend (we have increased in general, but this is a special event).

 

Again, I am so sorry to bring this up, but I didn't know where else to ask about it. Why are the young men behaving in this way? Is it some sort of group think thing that is happening? Please help me understand and figure out a way to help some dear friends overcome some deep seated fears. The young lady whom I work with (the physical trainer) bolted from the store when the Muslim ladies walked in. She was terrified. The whole situation is making me so sad.

 

I was very upset to see this as I see my fellow posters were. I wonder if you could find out the name of the conference or organization they are with? If you want to stay anonymous but can find out that information and then would like to message me with the details of some of their actions, I would be willing to contact the organization myself so they are aware that there is a serious issue there. My guess is that they probably do not realize. In terms of why the young guys are like that,my immediate thought was not that they were from outside of the US but that they were born in America, likely go to schools here, and just 'weren't raised right'. I've seen this quite a bit and it isn't because they think American girls are 'easy' or anything of that sort, they are just misogynistic, obnoxious douches to everyone because they've been around bad influences (often not even within their home but from school friends and the like). A lot of time these are 2nd generation immigrants, not because they were instilled with the attitude from their parents (who you said were polite and a pleasure to interact with) but because their parents are overly permissive (especially with boys) and assume that they will turn out the same way they did even though the social standards are completely different. I don't know if I'm making sense but for example, most people here with sons will teach them about what is appropriate and inappropriate, enforce strict rules in the same way they do with their daughters, teach them not to objectify women and proper manners...etc. Many immigrants have the same teachings instilled in them but gained it primarily through interaction and being raised in the 'it takes a village' mindset. As a result, many do not actually discuss these things with their kids with the assumption that they will automatically sort out right from wrong and as the kids get older they learn how to fool their parents by acting proper in front of them and turning into a little turd when their back is turned. As middle eastern culture changes and modernizes further, people are beginning to see the same attitudes and misconceptions developing in those countries as well. It is a shame. Personally, I don't understand it and, if anything, think I'd be more restrictive with my sons since men tend to have more potential to do harm to other human beings (not trying to be sexist here, I'm just not sure how to phrase this but rest assured, I know both genders are capable of harming people ;) ).

 

 

I have a question about this phrase:

 

"As salaamu alaikum"

 

Please know what I know about Muslims is from here and TV shows (not the news). Obviously, I've learned more here.

 

What does this mean? I assume it is a greeting? Is is offensive for a non-Muslim to use it when greeting a Muslim.

 

Second question: I live in a very non-diverse area. It is rare to see a covering Muslim woman in our area. In some parts of our area, they would certainly be met with rude glances and perhaps comments. Besides a smile, is there anything to say/not to say when trying to chit chat. I'm assuming like in a store or grocery. I'm horrible at chit-chat, my mother is gifted in it. I always feel like I'm saying the wrong thing - so excuse if this seems like a stupid question. I could probably manage "Are you enjoying the weather?", "Your kids are lovely," stuff like that.

 

1. As salaamu alaikum means 'Peace be upon you'. A further significance is that 'As-Salaam' is one of the 99 names of Allah meaning The Peace, so it can also be understood as a similar meaning to 'God be with you'.

 

"The meaning of salaam is harmlessness, safety and protection from evil and from faults. The name al-Salaam is a Name of Allaah, may He be exalted, so the meaning of the greeting of salaam which is required among Muslims is, “May the blessing of His Name descend upon you.†The usage of the preposition ‘ala in ‘alaykum (upon you) indicates that the greeting is inclusive."

 

Further,

 

Al-Sanoosi said in Ikmaal al-Mu’allim (1/244):

 

“What is meant by salaam is the greeting between people, which sows seeds of love and friendship in their hearts, as does giving food. There may be some weakness in the heart of one of them, which is dispelled when he is greeted, or there may be some hostility, which is turned to friendship by the greeting.â€

 

Al-Qaadi said in Ikmaal al-Mu’allim (1:276):

 

“Here the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was urging the believers to soften their hearts. The best Islamic attitude is to love one another and greet one another, and this is achieved by words and deeds. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) urged the Muslims to foster love between one another by exchanging gifts and food, and by spreading salaam, and he forbade the opposite, namely forsaking one another, turning away from one another, spying on one another, seeking out information about one another, stirring up trouble and being two faced.

Love is one of the duties of Islam and one of the pillars of the Islamic system. One should give salaams to those whom one knows and those whom one does not know, out of sincerity towards Allaah; one should not try to impress other people by giving salaams only to those whom one knows and no-one else. This also entails an attitude of humility and spreading the symbols of this ummah through the word of salaam.â€

 

Thus the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) explained that this salaam spreads love and brotherhood. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

“You will not enter Paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Shall I not tell you about something which, if you do it, you will love one another? Spread salaam amongst yourselves.â€

 

Saying the salaam is, in a way, a promise to eachother that no harm will come to one another by your hand or your tongue. It is the standard greeting for all Muslims.

 

It would not at all be offensive if you said to a Muslim. When people have said it to me (that I know are from other faiths) I always take it as a sign of respect :).

 

 

My question is kind of dumb, lol. I take my 11 year old niece to or fro from dance class at least once a week, and next door is a Halal butcher/Pakistani grocery. We eat a lot of Indian food, and they carry fabulous stuff for far, far cheaper than International Groceries or Whole Foods, so I always combine a trip into the store for garlic or gar am masala or something. Anyway, the couple that owns it is Muslim, and I feel a bit funny when my niece is in tow, dressed in tiny dance clothes, and the owner is in hijab, and her little daughters are pretty covered (but not hair, they are 4-7). I've never been treated with anything but polite behavior, but I wonder, is it disrespectful of me to have her dressed like that in the store? She meets state "no shirt, no shoes, no service" code...but just barely, lol. Personally, I think she should have some sort of cover up for going to and fro from dance, but I'm not her mom.

 

Your question is not at all dumb. There is no reason that I think that would be inappropriate. Such stores get all kinds of visitors (of all ages) in all kinds of garbs and I've never heard of anyone having any issues. Add to that the fact that your niece is still a small child, I can't imagine why anyone would take issue at all.