Secretive Family Culture

[Murphy101]

People sometimes can offer counsel and insight that can help. But they can't help if they don't know there is a problem.

 

One can only presume if their cousel and insight were wanted enough to actually be taken, even if we could assume it was actually good counsel and insight, they would have been asked for it.

 

Personally, this just adds to why not to share private info. People presume that the sharing entitles them to counsel and sharing their insights when that wasn't asked for.

 

It's like sharing a medical situation and hearing everyone say how upset they are and how if they had it they'd do xyz and go to abc dr instead of yours and...

 

No.

 

Just no.

Bring food and wine and laughter.

 

Check the rest at the door unless they actually say, "what would you do/think" then keep it in the vault.

[Scarlett]

 

 

One can only presume if their cousel and insight were wanted enough to actually be taken, even if we could assume it was actually good counsel and insight, they would have been asked for it.

 

Personally, this just adds to why not to share private info. People presume that the sharing entitles them to counsel and sharing their insights when that wasn't asked for.

 

It's like sharing a medical situation and hearing everyone say how upset they are and how if they had it they'd do xyz and go to abc dr instead of yours and...

 

No.

 

Just no.

Bring food and wine and laughter.

 

Check the rest at the door unless they actually say, "what would you do/think" then keep it in the vault.

 

This is what I am saying though, of course we shouldn't go around shoving counsel down people's throats. But if you have such a big problem with your marriage that you are separated maybe you should ASK for some help from a trusted person instead of trying to keep a big secret.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Not everyone's siblings or their in-laws are trusted people able to give good marital advice. I wouldn't automatically assume that even if someone had confided in me that I would have been able to fill a role like that. I do have some family members that have confided some pretty private things to me and some who have not (though things later became public knowledge). And I would think it was totally up to the couple to determine who they might want to confide in and would not make it a condition of being family.

[Scarlett]

Not everyone's siblings or their in-laws are trusted people able to give good marital advice. I wouldn't automatically assume that even if someone had confided in me that I would have been able to fill a role like that. I do have some family members that have confided some pretty private things to me and some who have not (though things later became public knowledge). And I would think it was totally up to the couple to determine who they might want to confide in and would not make it a condition of being family.

 

Yes. It is up to any one whom they confide in. But I have seen several situations where this big wall of secrecy and misguided loyalty to a cheating or otherwise abusive mate only compounds the problem.

 

And as I said before I tried both ways in my first marriage......the secret keeping did. Not. Work. In the end I was a mess from it all. When I began to confide in people who loved me I began to see clearly what had been happening to my life.

 

I think we need to define secrets and privacy.

[Murphy101]

Who says they aren't? Not speaking to you (rhetorical you) doesn't mean they aren't talking to anyone. And it doesn't mean they are keeping secrets just bc they didn't tell you (again rhetorical).

 

Frankly I know precious few people irl or www I'd take marriage advice from. And even fewer I'd complain about my dh to.

 

This is what I am saying though, of course we shouldn't go around shoving counsel down people's throats. But if you have such a big problem with your marriage that you are separated maybe you should ASK for some help from a trusted person instead of trying to keep a big secret.

[Scarlett]

Who says they aren't? Not speaking to you (rhetorical you) doesn't mean they aren't talking to anyone. And it doesn't mean they are keeping secrets just bc they didn't tell you (again rhetorical).

 

Frankly I know precious few people irl or www I'd take marriage advice from. And even fewer I'd complain about my dh to.

 

My niece is who is on my mind. She and her husband have sealed up tight and will talk to NO ONE. It is ridiculous. They clearly need help but instead they are separated after a month of marriage.

[Murphy101]

And again. Abuse is something else.

 

And I know many people who talked about their cheating or abusive spouse and were given lots of support and offers of help (from $ and counsel to a paid place to live and child care) and never listened to any of it.

 

I think people seek help when and if they are willing to take it.

 

And if they don't ask for it, then it's often pointless to insist on giving them what they don't want.

 

And of course, I wouldn't presume that family is the best or a valid option for everyone. Some just aren't that blessed at birth.

[Scarlett]

And again. Abuse is something else.

 

And I know many people who talked about their cheating or abusive spouse and were given lots of support and offers of help (from $ and counsel to a paid place to live and child care) and never listened to any of it.

 

I think people seek help when and if they are willing to take it.

 

And if they don't ask for it, then it's often pointless to insist on giving them what they don't want.

 

And of course, I wouldn't presume that family is the best or a valid option for everyone. Some just aren't that blessed at birth.

 

True.

[Murphy101]

I don't think battening down the hatches during a storm is ridiculous. It can be quite wise and sheltering *most* of the time.

 

What makes you or anyone else think you have the answers to their problems? I'm sure you have opinions and ideas of what you think you would do, but that doesn't necessarily answer what they should do for them.

 

I don't get. You know they are having a rough time. Why do you need to know details?

 

My niece is who is on my mind. She and her husband have sealed up tight and will talk to NO ONE. It is ridiculous. They clearly need help but instead they are separated after a month of marriage.

[Scarlett]

I don't think battening down the hatches during a storm is ridiculous. It can be quite wise and sheltering *most* of the time.

 

What makes you or anyone else think you have the answers to their problems? I'm sure you have opinions and ideas of what you think you would do, but that doesn't necessarily answer what they should do for them.

 

I don't get. You know they are having a rough time. Why do you need to know details?

 

Why not? What they are trying isn't working.

[Murphy101]

I do have sympathy for you. It sucks to watch the wreck in process. But I've finally reached the point where I can accept that I don't have the power to change the train other people buy tickets to ride.

 

Sadly I suspect you can't help your niece until and if she is ready to get off the crazy train.

 

(((Hugs)))

[Scarlett]

I don't think battening down the hatches during a storm is ridiculous. It can be quite wise and sheltering *most* of the time.

 

What makes you or anyone else think you have the answers to their problems? I'm sure you have opinions and ideas of what you think you would do, but that doesn't necessarily answer what they should do for them.

 

I don't get. You know they are having a rough time. Why do you need to know details?

 

Also the secrecy started while they were dating. It hasn't been a relationship that is normal to me.

[Scarlett]

I do have sympathy for you. It sucks to watch the wreck in process. But I've finally reached the point where I can accept that I don't have the power to change the train other people buy tickets to ride.

 

Sadly I suspect you can't help your niece until and if she is ready to get off the crazy train.

 

(((Hugs)))

 

Thanks and this is the point I've reached too. I reached out to her repeatedly but she totally blew me off. I have a husband recovering from a surgery and out of work. My son has school to finish and my yard needs mowed. Can't and won't waste any more time worrying about people who don't want help.

 

 

[Murphy101]

Again. How do you know that? For all you know of their marriage this IS improvement. Sometimes healing and improvement is a painful ugly process.

 

Why not? What they are trying isn't working.

[Scarlett]

Again. How do you know that? For all you know of their marriage this IS improvement. Sometimes healing and improvement is a painful ugly process.

 

Their entire relationship is screwed up...but yes that is my opinion. An opinion base upon 30 years of experience with marriage but yeah my opinion. It has been icky from the beginning.....breaking up after he goes on vacation...dating again in secret and then giving everyone a weeks notice that they are marrying. None of it has felt right.

[Scarlett]

And think how you would react if this was your child Martha. If you thought your child was being an ass wouldn't you say something?

[Incognito]

The only time I think that the privacy of a marital relationship should be violated is when one spouse is continually cheating on the other. That is the only situation where I have personally seen that having it out in the open helps. When it is hidden, the cheater uses that hiding place to continue in their illogical fantasy.

 

As far as the OP's sister - if you pray, pray for them. Pray for honesty and brokenness - for open eyes and open hearts. Your sister has shared and you want to help her uphold the promises she made, so you do what you can from where you are.

[Murphy101]

Lol. My family is one of the freaky dysfunctional secretive kinds by some estimates of this tread.

 

In my family, they are married. Baring abuse, that's the end of it. He is family and would be treated like family until or if they divorced. Unlike what I see in most families, I can honestly say my family treats the married ins just like those born in.

 

Before the wedding? Oh yeah. I'd have been voicing as diplomatically as possible some serious concerns. :)

 

After the wedding? I'd tell them I love them both and am here to help them both if they ever need me. And I'd pray a LOT. And talk to my dh a LOT. And fret a LOT.

 

Because the most important thing I think they need in that moment is that they can come to me when and if ready. They need that more than my opinion.

 

Now I will say if I suspected actual abuse, I'd speak up.

[Murphy101]

How is keeping their marriage problems to themselves being an ass?

 

Sure if my kid was being an ass, I'd probably call them on it. Maybe. One does need to choose their battles too. But I don't think keeping marriage problems private qualifies.

[Catwoman]

I think it is incredibly presumptuous for anyone to assume that the details of another person's marriage are any of their business, even if the couple is separating or divorcing. It is certainly not dysfunctional for a couple to want to keep their personal lives private, and it's hard for me to imagine that anyone would think it was odd that they wouldn't immediately blab to others about their problems.

 

Unless you're one of the two people wearing the matching rings, it's none of your business unless you are specifically asked for advice.

 

If someone wants to volunteer information, that's fine, but I think marital issues belong within the marriage, not shouted from the rooftops to friends and relatives. Privacy has its merits, one of which is that it doesn't lead to a lot of gossip, Monday morning quarterbacking, and "I told you so" comments from others. Obviously, abusive situations may fall into a different category, but in general, I'm a big fan of keeping my nose where it doesn't belong.

 

And seriously, does anyone really believe that they should be meddling in another person's marriage, even if it's a close family member? :confused: I would find that to be incredibly intrusive!

[Laura Corin]

I'm a pretty private person. I don't think I'd tell my siblings or my mother if I had marital problems unless/until it looked as if something was going to change in our life circumstances - a different living arrangement, for example. We don't live very close to my family, so that might make a difference.

 

Laura

[Mama Geek]

 

Well, I agree with that part of it - there is no part of me whatsoever that wants to tell my parents or other siblings or whomever. I just can't understand why my sib has not said anything or given any indication that anything was not hunky-dory. I would have placed these two at the top of my list of the Greatest Couples I Know. I was sketching out some plans in the back of my mind to go see sibling and bring my mother along as a treat! This changed because my mom has breast cancer now, so I have no idea what will be happening this summer, but now I find out the visit would be very different from what I thought.

 

I have found at times that those who appear to have the perfect marriage usually don't.

[Mama Geek]

 

Hmm. Interesting perspective.

 

I was entertaining a line of reasoning in my mind where I wonder if scattered families make divorce more likely, precisely because there is more ability to hide problems until it's totally OVER. If my dh and I were separated, I couldn't keep this hidden for so much as one week; we are surrounded by family and there is simply no way it could be hidden. In a way, having a lot of family around probably is something of an adhesive during rocky marital times. At least, that was the thought process I was pondering in the wake of my sib's revelation.

 

I have sometimes seen just the opposite especially in younger folks. Parents tend to really get in the way at times of a newer marriage. I am thinking of one specific example at the moment where the couple would have been better off to pick up and move across country than to stay near their family and friends. They ended up divorced at least partly due to both sets of parents being way to involved and having friends that they could run to instead of staying with each other and working things out when it got hard.

[Mama Geek]

This is what I am saying though, of course we shouldn't go around shoving counsel down people's throats. But if you have such a big problem with your marriage that you are separated maybe you should ASK for some help from a trusted person instead of trying to keep a big secret.

 

I agree 100% with this, but the one other thing related to this thread is it doesn't have to be family and probably is better if it isn't. This I would much more so go to a close friend that I thought would really be help.

[Mama Geek]

We have often kept our families out of the loop when it came time for us to be making big decisions, at least until after the decisions were made and it was too late to change. There are to many overly emotion people who are too concerned about themselves to be objective in being in the know when we are making decisions. When we decided to quit direct jobs and pick up to go across country to do contract work we waited until we had our plane tickets. Neither of us needed to deal with family expressing their dislike that we were going so far away and out in the boondocks and how are we going to see you and so forth. Mind you, we didn't live in the same state at the time and we ended up seeing them about the same amount twice a year or so. It just made it a plane ride rather than a car ride.

 

When you are having marital problems it is good to talk to someone that you trust and that you think will lead you in the right direction. For us that is not our parents or siblings. Early on things were hard for us and we did end up with great help from a pastor. Our families are where most of our problems originated from and they weren't going to be able to fix that.

[stripe]

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Now what do you think you could have done to save their marriage? Don't you completely overestimate the impact you as an outsider can have on the relationship of two other people - even if they are family?

I can't fathom what you expect to be able to have accomplished had they told you. Talked to them and admonished them that they should better stay married? ( Because that would have never occurred to them on their own? ) Told them about how it is possible to reconcile all differences? I simply can't imagine what you believe you could have done to fix their marriage.

 

I have no idea in the situation you were responding to, but as an example, my husband was asked to get involved in this couple's marital issues, and he did. Then the other man's father got involved. Most of it was, I think, telling the husband to behave better and not complain so much and be more responsible. He was apparently kind of hot-headed. The man's family put a lot of support behind the woman and telling their son to treat her better. They talked through particular issues that were stress points in the marriage and developed a plan for dealing with them. In other words, informal counseling.

 

I do know people who have actively refused to help women in bad or somewhat bad situations to leave their marriages because they don't belive in divorce or whatever.

 

On the other hand, my mother and I have both had occasions to tell women they should NOT stay in a bad marriage. Sometimes the woman ignored us completely because they think the loser is so fabulous. But I still have stated my case that the behavior is wrong and the woman should not stand for it.

 

But sometimes people have really stupid, trivial complaints about their spouse (especially I'd seen men who yammer on about their wives) and I think having men in the community tell them they are being unrealistic and should be a better husband, is probably a good thing.

[Hikin' Mama]

I'm very close with my family and I tell them pretty much everything.

 

That said, I don't think my marriage is anybody's business unless I make it so. There are other things that I choose to keep from most people. I have my reasons. Mainly I just don't think most people need to know the deep details about my life. Secondly, most people tend to slip their knowledge of others' "secrets" out in their conversations with other people, or on public message boards. I am sometimes shocked at what people choose to share right here on the Chat Board that really should only be shared by the people directly involved. I have a handful of close friends and family that I can be very real with. I know, however, that what I share with them stays with them. I give them the same respect. With everyone else, I'm " secretive." It's not a bit dysfunctional, IMO. It's quite healthy, actually.

 

ETA: Martha and Regentrude, I hope I didn't appear stalkerish by liking a bunch of your posts. LOL I just really agreed with what you had to say. :)

[regentrude]

People sometimes can offer counsel and insight that can help. But they can't help if they don't know there is a problem.

 

Don't you think the couple knows that???

Maybe they have even been seeking counsel from people they want to listen to.

Maybe the counsel of the extended family is exactly what they do not want.

 

If I had problems, I would much rather attend professional counseling by an outsider than deal with the well meaning meddling of our families.

[Scarlett]

 

 

Don't you think the couple knows that???

Maybe they have even been seeking counsel from people they want to listen to.

Maybe the counsel of the extended family is exactly what they do not want.

 

If I had problems, I would much rather attend professional counseling by an outsider than deal with the well meaning meddling of our families.

 

Hard to say what some couples know. I do believe that this particular couple ( my niece, sorry to t/j Quill) knows nothing and both are very stubborn and they aren't going to listen to anyone except whoever tickles their ears with what they want to hear.

 

And you may prefer professional strangers over the counsel of a few wise people whose advice you value, but not everyone feels that way. Mothers/ aunts/ fathers/ uncles or just older ones with wisdom have been helping people navigate life for generations. That doesn't mean every person has to know every detail and certainly people who meddle or cause trouble or gossip should not be trusted. Also I do understand that many people don't have family or anyone that they can trust.

[Heather in Neverland]

I guess I am dysfunctional, too. I am very private and share my deeply personal things with very few people.

 

Some people are just that way. It doesn't make them wrong... Just different.

 

I personally find it very disconcerting when people air their dirty laundry all the time. I wish people would be MORE secretive! I don't want to read on FB about what a $@#& your husband is.

[Scarlett]

I guess I am dysfunctional, too. I am very private and share my deeply personal things with very few people.

 

Some people are just that way. It doesn't make them wrong... Just different.

 

I personally find it very disconcerting when people air their dirty laundry all the time. I wish people would be MORE secretive! I don't want to read on FB about what a $@#& your husband is.

 

Right I don't like reading those things on fb either! That is not what I am talking about.

[regentrude]

And you may prefer professional strangers over the counsel of a few wise people whose advice you value, but not everyone feels that way. Mothers/ aunts/ fathers/ uncles or just older ones with wisdom have been helping people navigate life for generations. That doesn't mean every person has to know every detail and certainly people who meddle or cause trouble or gossip should not be trusted. Also I do understand that many people don't have family or anyone that they can trust.

 

I do not think it has anything to do with trust.

I trust my mother and have a good relationship with her- and it would be precisely for this reason that I would choose not to involve her in a painful process like this, but to spare her unnecessary heartbreak.

It is the same with illness: not telling a loved one about an illness has nothing to do with distrust or fear of gossip, but with the knowledge that there is really nothing they can do, and that they would only suffer and be upset. I'll share with my mom if I have the flu -but I would not share if I was worried I had a severe illness.

[MariannNOVA]

Slow morning here at home. I am going to toss out a different arena where this phenomena of family secrecy knocked me and dh off our feet.

 

Last summer, we learned via email that dh's father had been diagnosed with Alzheimer's 18 months prior to our receipt of the email. MIL kept it secret and would have continued to keep it secret. It is bizarre! She had tomato-staked herself to him, and in her opinion, THAT was her way of dealing with the diagnosis.......she eschewed every reasonable suggestion made by FIL's doctors.

 

Just my .02 because marital strife secrets are just one kind of situation where these issues and opinion of telling or not telling come into play.

[Scarlett]

I have had two MILs . The first one for26 years. I don't want her advice on ANYTHING and in fact I figure she helped ruin my marriage because she hated me. My current MIL is a wonderful wise woman and I absolutely would listen to her if she had something to tell me.

 

Obviously every situation is different and not every mother or father or sister or aunt can't be trusted to be helpful. But that doesn't mean that people who DO have that kind of support in their life are wrong for sharing. Also, this thread started about keeping things like a separation a secret. Even for those people who choose to keep their private life a secret from everyone, even family, I still thing that is overboard to keep it a secret where everyone is living.

[Scarlett]

 

 

I do not think it has anything to do with trust.

I trust my mother and have a good relationship with her- and it would be precisely for this reason that I would choose not to involve her in a painful process like this, but to spare her unnecessary heartbreak.

It is the same with illness: not telling a loved one about an illness has nothing to do with distrust or fear of gossip, but with the knowledge that there is really nothing they can do, and that they would only suffer and be upset. I'll share with my mom if I have the flu -but I would not share if I was worried I had a severe illness.

 

 

Wow. That way of dealing is totally foreign to me. My mom would be devastated if I kept a serious illness from her. And the same with my son...I would be so hurt if he something serious with his health from me.

 

People are different that is for sure.

[MariannNOVA]

I have had two MILs . The first one for26 years. I don't want her advice on ANYTHING and in fact I figure she helped ruin my marriage because she hated me. My current MIL is a wonderful wise woman and I absolutely would listen to her if she had something to tell me.

 

Obviously every situation is different and not every mother or father or sister or aunt can't be trusted to be helpful. But that doesn't mean that people who DO have that kind of support in their life are wrong for sharing. Also, this thread started about keeping things like a separation a secret. Even for those people who choose to keep their private life a secret from everyone, even family, I still thing that is overboard to keep it a secret where everyone is living.

 

 

 

 

Hi, Scarlett.......I agree. I am mystified as to the dynamic that compels an individual or individuals to keep things secret 'across the board' so to speak. I am for discernment.......'secrecy' as a policy mystifies me. Ex-MIL and her family kept everything a secret........everything. They harbor end heinous secrets. Maybe when people decide to keep secrets, they lose sight of the possibility that some stuff can be shared! I don't know.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I have had two MILs . The first one for26 years. I don't want her advice on ANYTHING and in fact I figure she helped ruin my marriage because she hated me. My current MIL is a wonderful wise woman and I absolutely would listen to her if she had something to tell me.

 

Obviously every situation is different and not every mother or father or sister or aunt can't be trusted to be helpful. But that doesn't mean that people who DO have that kind of support in their life are wrong for sharing. Also, this thread started about keeping things like a separation a secret. Even for those people who choose to keep their private life a secret from everyone, even family, I still thing that is overboard to keep it a secret where everyone is living.

 

 

That probably speaks more to the dynamic of the extended family than the secret keepers, imo. If the extended family is judgmental or gossipy or doesn't observe boundaries then people often feel like they have to keep secrets. Of course you'll notice that I put a lot of qualifiers in what I said because I don't know the specific family dynamic in question and this is a generalization where there are a lot of exceptions.

 

I have a brother who keeps secrets. He doesn't like to talk about his grown children. But - he's felt the sting of other family scrutinizing his children and judging them. So he doesn't want to subject himself or his grown children to that any more. We respect that and wait for him to share what he wants in his time (not all of us are judgmental). The only thing I think is weird about it all is that he will periodically complain that we don't ask him questions about his kids! But since he feels like we're prying when we do, the consensus is that he's just going to have to volunteer what he wants us to know.

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

I guess I just look at this differently. I don't see it as "keeping a secret." I am not intentionally not telling someone to "shut them out." I just don't see the need to talk about myself or my problems to others. Private issues.

 

I just don't understand why I would sit in the phone or at a coffee shop and tell anyone what problems my spouse and I are having. That is private. That is one of the fundamental benefits of marriage, in my opinion. I have one person on this earth who knows every single thing about me and loves me anyway. This is one person I can trust will never "sell me out" to the rest of the world. I think breaking that confidence is grounds for divorce. I just never ever would. I couldn't.

 

I do know people who like to discuss their private lives. I don't get it, but I let them process their marriages their way. But I don't think they are weird or disfunctional; I just don't agree with their methods of processing.

 

If something is really weighing on me and I need to get it out but it's about my spouse so I can't go to her, I go to a professional. Someone who is paid to never breathe a word. I believe in marriage privacy - with all of my heart. I wouldn't be with my spouse if we didn't agree on this.

 

[LibraryLover]

I like what Martha said about complaining about a spouse to family members. I don't like that. I might grumble about small things to my sister or mom, but I wouldn't take it further. Of course in the case of abuse/cheating, one may want to confide in a family member., or they may not. If not a family member, I would hope a hurting/abused person would seek good counsel.

[Murphy101]

I just want to note that for ME it isn't secret keeping. I am not thinking, "I will keep this from X persons." Truth is it wouldn't occur to me to tell them. I'm not keeping anything from them bc that would require purposely avoiding discussing it with them and it's not like that.

 

Tho I will be honest and say I have told my dh he is forbidden to so much as call my family if I get seriously ill. For that matter, I've told him to not even tell them if I die. Frankly, it would take them months to notice so I don't particularly feel he or I owes them that.

 

Now dh sees his parents on a somewhat regular basis and I'd like to think they'd notice. Once I saw things were getting to crisis level and likely not to get better, I'd call them. And that's how my dh would want it.

[regentrude]

Wow. That way of dealing is totally foreign to me. My mom would be devastated if I kept a serious illness from her. And the same with my son...I would be so hurt if he something serious with his health from me.

 

If you read carefully, you'll see that I wrote I would not share with her if I was worried about having a serious illness. Why burden her with more worry if it all might turn out OK in the end? I'd certainly let her know if I had a terminal disease, but I would see no need for her to have sleepless nights just because *I* worry about something that may or may not come to pass.

Same with marital problems: as long as things are in flux and may work out, I don't see why I would cause another person unnecessary anxiety.

[annandatje]

Did anyone else grow up with this particular dysfunction? I could write an encyclopedia of examples, but what's bothering me at the moment is that some of my grown sibs still operate this way. I just talked to one of my sibs and learned about marital problems that I am *totally shocked* are present. This has been going on for many months, but sib said, "Nobody knows (in our family and friends)." Good grief! I'm horrified enough to learn about this, but now I feel like I have "the secret" and I neither want to tell anybody/everybody, nor do I want to be "in the know" about something pertinent that really should be freely known. :( I told dh about the problems and he also asked, "So, are we supposed to be keeping this a secret or what?

 

I don't like this. I have been in this spot before, knowing about something going on and having to say nothing when my mother (or whomever) is wondering about XYZ and I have the info but am not at liberty to share.

 

P.S. My mother has serious health problems, so if my sib was keeping it quiet before, this is not a good time to hang out the dirty laundry, kwim?

 

I would have to know more about the situation before I would term it "dysfunctional." I would like to think I could confide in a sibling about marital problems without it being general knowledge, but if I felt it would be a burden to her, I would forego telling her. Why should her marital problems be "freely known?"

 

Personally I would not confide in my parents about marital problems because I would not want them to have lingering resentment toward spouse after problems had been resolved. I suppose same could be said of siblings but I think a sibling would have a little less of a mama bear outlook than a parent would if that makes sense.

[Scarlett]

 

 

If you read carefully, you'll see that I wrote I would not share with her if I was worried about having a serious illness. Why burden her with more worry if it all might turn out OK in the end? I'd certainly let her know if I had a terminal disease, but I would see no need for her to have sleepless nights just because *I* worry about something that may or may not come to pass.

Same with marital problems: as long as things are in flux and may work out, I don't see why I would cause another person unnecessary anxiety.

 

Oh. I see.

[JessReplanted]

Yup. I also come from a family where everything is great, wonderful, or fine all of the time - regardless of the truth.

At one point, I tried being real and communicating honest feelings, and it just backfired in my face. So, now whenever I talk with

my family, I am always just doing great. ;) :tongue_smilie:

[mommymilkies]

Why do you think your sister has to tell you everything/anything happening in her family? Some things really are private.

 

I agree. Now, I have a pretty large age gap between my brothers and I, so we are not exceedingly close, anyway, but no way do I tell them personal stuff. I probably wouldn't if they were girls, either. Of course, I was raised to control my emotions to an extreme and still have to cry in private. So maybe I'm not a great example. :lol:

[Guest]

I do not comprehend that attitude at all.

 

I read that as -

 

It is her marriage falling apart and you are upset bc you feel she was inconsiderate of your feelings about it?

 

I really find that mind boggling.

 

You seem like a nice enough person, so I'm presuming you don't actually intend it that way. But I'm a rather private person and that's exactly how it would come across to me. You presume she was purposely keeping a secret and it may not be that way.

 

[/color]

 

Now what do you think you could have done to save their marriage? Don't you completely overestimate the impact you as an outsider can have on the relationship of two other people - even if they are family?

I can't fathom what you expect to be able to have accomplished had they told you. Talked to them and admonished them that they should better stay married? ( Because that would have never occurred to them on their own? ) Told them about how it is possible to reconcile all differences? I simply can't imagine what you believe you could have done to fix their marriage.

 

 

 

I haven't made it through all the replies since last night, but I want to answer to this:

 

It's not that I think I'm a miracle-worker who could save the marriage or offer the perfect solution. It's not that I think I'm entitled or nosy and want to know everyone's details. It's from the perspective of caring that someone else is hurt. If I care about you and I learn that you are hurting, I can be sad with you, I can keep you in my thoughts, I might even pray if I can't think of anything else to do. But if you paste on a smile and can't share the struggles, then I can't care about your hurts. I don't even know you have them.

 

When I had a miscarriage, my mother went to Thanksgiving Dinner with all my siblings and did not say a word about it. I guess some of you feel that was the right thing to do, let me have my "privacy." But I personally would much rather have gotten a call or card or anything that said, "I'm sorry to hear what happened," than for everyone to shrug and say, "Oh, Danielle couldn't make it. Well that's a shame. Pass the mashed potatoes."

 

Ideally, one can share hurts with their family members - not so they can fix it, bash the spouse, criticize or assign blame, but just to sympathize, to share in another's human experience. I care if someone is having a painful time, even if I can't do diddly squat to make it better.

[Plink]

Secrets put up walls in families. I got off that terrible ride a long time ago. I won't intentionally blab a secret, but I will happily tell someone that they need to ask Mary/Steve directly if they bring up the issue. I dislike being forced into the middle of drama.

[regentrude]

If I care about you and I learn that you are hurting, I can be sad with you, I can keep you in my thoughts, I might even pray if I can't think of anything else to do. But if you paste on a smile and can't share the struggles, then I can't care about your hurts. I don't even know you have them.

 

 

I understand. And if the people would feel that it helps them to know somebody cares, they would tell you. But for some people, this is not helpful.

 

When I had a miscarriage, my mother went to Thanksgiving Dinner with all my siblings and did not say a word about it. I guess some of you feel that was the right thing to do, let me have my "privacy." But I personally would much rather have gotten a call or card or anything that said, "I'm sorry to hear what happened," than for everyone to shrug and say, "Oh, Danielle couldn't make it. Well that's a shame. Pass the mashed potatoes."

 

 

I am very sorry you had to go through this. But I still think it would not have been your mother's place to tell everybody, unless you had specifically asked her to do so and explained that it would be meaningful to you. The person who hurts is the one to make the call; nobody else has the business to guess whether this person wants to share her pain publicly, and should err on the side of caution.

 

Ideally, one can share hurts with their family members - not so they can fix it, bash the spouse, criticize or assign blame, but just to sympathize, to share in another's human experience. I care if someone is having a painful time, even if I can't do diddly squat to make it better.

 

 

That is very kind of you, and I am sure you are a good person. But this is not about your wish to share somebody's pain - it is the prerogative of the hurting person to decide whether she wants this sharing or not. only she can decide whether she would find this helpful (and reach out) or whether it would increase her pain to involve others. I believe that we need to respect those wishes.

[Guest]

 

I have found at times that those who appear to have the perfect marriage usually don't.

 

Maybe, but this still seems astounding to me. I'm not prone to sizing up people's marriages in the first place, but these two are just so sympatico; they are such soul-mates. They're both hilariously funny and their humor is so similar. I have a couple of photos that have always just made me smile because they seem to have such joy in life. It's too shocking for words that things are not as they seemed.

[Murphy101]

I agree with regentrude 100%. You keep saying what you feel and what you want, but it isn't about you. It's about what them.

 

Maybe, but this still seems astounding to me. I'm not prone to sizing up people's marriages in the first place, but these two are just so sympatico; they are such soul-mates. They're both hilariously funny and their humor is so similar. I have a couple of photos that have always just made me smile because they seem to have such joy in life. It's too shocking for words that things are not as they seemed.

 

*shrug* And then there's other couples that no one can believe made it to their 1st anniversary, much less their 20+ anniversary.