Trying to keep up with what my oldest is/will be learning ~ encouragement needed. : )

[Colleen]

I (and others) have likely posted along these lines before; bear with me, please, as I'm a tad overwhelmed. When I consider the subjects my oldest is now tackling, my heart beats a bit faster and I turn my thoughts to the simplicity of schooling my little people: So basic, so easy! And what's more, it's repeat territory. Not so, of course, in the case of my oldest. I've forgotten the vast majority of algebra I learned oh so many years ago. Physical sciences were not my forte. I didn't study Latin or logic...How on earth do you stay one step ahead of your older students?!

 

I know some folks rely on their spouse to help with a given subject or two; that's not happening here. Others outsource at this stage; I'd prefer not to do that quite yet. And still others turn it all over their older student and don't involve themselves a great deal. While I certainly encourage independent learning ~ and my oldest does very well in that respect ~ I want to be aware of what he's learning. I feel it's my responsibility to be able to help him work through trouble spots he may encounter in his studies.

 

I'm as eager to self-educate, read, familiarize (or re-familiarize) as the next gal, but how realistic is this when one is raising and schooling several children and helping run a business? Someone toss me a lifeline here, please!:D

[Karen in CO]

With my ds, I loved doing history and literature with him. We both read the book, and I worked hard to stay up with him and come up with intelligent discussion points. I typically did this a couple of weeks at a time and during the weekend. We had our discussions over lunch or at dinner.

 

He left me behind in math somewhere after Algebra. I could work the problems with him, but I was not useful at all in explaining it if he didn't understand what was in the book.

 

Other than working through IEW SWI-C together, I outsourced his writing. Once he became a "good" writer, I could not provide feedback and assistance for him. It just wasn't good enough for me to tell him that his paper was great. He needed someone who could tell him how it could be better.

 

I worked through latin with him, but he wanted Japanese so I outsourced that.

 

I taught him biology and earth science, but sent him to the CC for physics and chemistry.

 

He did logic independently, but he thrived in a classroom for philosophy with others his age for discussions. Forty year olds and teenagers are very far apart in their philosophies.

 

So my advice to you, is to decide what are the most important subjects for you to share with him. What do you enjoy doing together the most? Where are you actually weak? Where does he need more than you can offer? What does he enjoy that he could do on his own?

[Raini]

I'm right there with you Colleen, but I think you have more on your plate than I do! I finally outsourced a few things for my 13yo and it's made a world of difference. I just can't do it all- and I got tired of being lost and frustrated when he ran into questions/problems.

 

I miss the younger years too. :001_unsure:

[Raini]

Hmm...I'm new with these boards. I wanted to post that under Colleen.

[readwithem]

You'll know when it's the right time to outsource. You'll probably have a "bridge" when your ds will learn independently, you'll muddle through checking his work, and then you both will know it's time to let somebody else take over the formal teaching, whether via an online class, a coop, or a local college course.

 

You'll both get beyond your wits' end with the current situation, you'll likely mourn the loss of the simplicity and ease (to use your words) of his younger years... then you'll move on. Really it will be okay - just another step in his growing and learning. You'll move more toward the guidance counselor role :)

[Karen in CO]

You'll move more toward the guidance counselor role :)

 

Shhhh - don't scare her with guidance counselor yet. ;)

 

Too bad we can't just send them all back to first grade. It would be easier. Next time he grows up, I'll be ready for it.

[readwithem]

Shhhh - don't scare her with guidance counselor yet. ;)

 

Too bad we can't just send them all back to first grade. It would be easier. Next time he grows up, I'll be ready for it.

 

:)

 

Actually I'm enjoying the learning curve, just trying to juggle all the testing and transcript aspects for next year (dd is a junior).

 

I have to admit the early years are immediately gratifying - I used to hear "this is so FUN", this is SO fun" "THIS is so fun" about 20x a day. I don't hear that so much anymore :):) but I do still see those lightbulb moments. Priceless.

[Peela]

I can certainly relate, Colleen.

 

Algebra- I am amazed I have retained as much as I have but this year I have at times been out of my depth with dd14.( I do get quite excited when I work something out that I haven't done since highschool!) We have got to the point where we sometimes leave something, a really difficult problem, for the sake of keeping moving through the book. Dd was spending a whole lesson on one problem too often, so we had to find a compromise. She recently spent 2 weeks on a free trial of Aleks, and saw some of her problem areas from a new perspective, and is now sailing through her normal textbook again. There is also a neighbour young man, a family friend, whose highschool days are far more recent, and he has been glad to help a few times. So, I guess we are just muddling our way through, fairly succesfully overall, but there may come a point I cant help any more and I am not sure if she will be able to do it without any support form me- maybe she will by then.

 

Literature and History- still lots of reading aloud and discussions, along with her younger brother.

 

Writing- mostly I have been happy to manage this myself but I decided dd wasn't being challenged enough in what is a strong area for her, so I have just enrolled her in a 6 week online course for some feedback from someone else.

 

Latin- I had dd do a year long online Latin course, (Cambridge, book 3) and I am not sure it was such a good thing to do. She doesn't feel she learned much, and I left it to her. She is a social child and learns much better with interaction. Now that she is finished that, I am doing Latin with her again, and we will just learn together.

 

Logic- I handed her Traditional Logic and she did it, got it mostly right, hated it, and both of us felt she was getting nothing out of it. We dropped it. We do much better with discussions- and I am not ready to do TL myself. So, for now, no Logic, and I am in limbo there. Maybe I will just wait till my next child is ready, and then we can all do it together. It seems to work well for us to do that a fair bit, but i don't have younger ones behind.

 

Science- outsourced with an excellent science teacher, small homeschool class- ideal for her.

 

I have found that in some areas, I can leave dd to work independently, and it works fine- and others, it just doesn't work- it actually feels like a waste of time to expect her to do them alone, she engages so little with the material, even though she is very bright. I am sure different kids with different personalities would engage better with different subjects, but this kid is a social butterfly who withers and wilts with too much dry independent work. She is the sort of kid who would thrive in a healthy classroom with inspiring teachers and lots of interaction.

 

So its an ongoing balance here between outsourcing- even just for short courses- working out what is best to outsource- surrendering to the amount of work it seems best to really do together with lots of discussion- and leaving her to just get on with things independently. I guess every family has to find their own way with it.

But I imagine every hour spent on Latin and Logic and Algebga with the oldest will naturally flow down to your younger children, and when they get there, you will find it all much easier, and will be able to paraphrase the information as well.

 

I started to get very discriminating about how friendly various curriculum were for our unique situation.

[Camy-7 boybarians 1 lady]

You already know what I am doing about this (grin). I pray you are able to come up w/ a plan. Perhaps you can get him through until he gets to the age where you feel comfortable w/ either outsourcing his educational opportunities to others (i.e schools, tutors, online stuff) or continuing on through what may be just a tough transition.

 

I wish Luann were here, she would have great advice (Yoohoo, Luann??!!). I know that they do a lot of online outsourcing and she'd have many suggestions.

 

Blessings,

Camy (w/ a nervous tummy due to the fact that D-Day is coming...the boys will be going off to school)

[Laurie4b]

You're right. It's hard. I don't know anyone who does it without co-ops or outsourcing, which may exclude the rest of my post. However, I was more in your camp and made mistakes, so maybe you'd prefer someone else to make your mistakes for you. :)

 

I don't have as many little kids, but I work part-time and have one kiddo with significant learning disabilities. I'd guess that's about equal.

 

What are your reasons for not wanting to outsource? Outsourcing is a practical measure that has kept me able to homeschool the older ones. Co-op has also worked, when it was small and limited to mothers with similar expectations.

 

What I am doing differently than with my first:

 

Getting them into outside classes by 7th or 8th grade. They take science outsourced.

 

I tried to teach Algebra I to ds1 and ds2. I will be letting Dana Mosely of Chalkdust teach Algebra I to Ds3.Not that it was a disaster, but it was not the best, either. Mr. Mosely has taught Geom and Algebra II as well. He's a good investment, as for the purchase price, he can keep teaching the upcoming kids if nobody loses a disc. Ahem.

 

Giving grades in middle school. Ds 1 had never taken a timed test before he took his first outsourced class in 9th grade. He had never used a textbook. He had to learn that academic game, since he's headed to college. Outsourced classes are a good source for timed tests.

 

Honestly? My boys work more diligently for outside teachers. I get to be mom, not, teacher-mom-thing-to-be-thwarted-by-young-warrior-son. We are still finishing the school year for ds1 and ds2 for the in-home classes. The other homeschool moms of sons whom I know have the same experience.

 

Our local outsourced classes are cheaper than online classes, so I use those for outsourcing. We've had some wonderful experiences: chemistry with two PhD homeschoolers, lit classes with an outstanding teacher (lit would be my strength, but she is better)

 

Outsourcing various classes has given my olders a good sized peer group as well, which has been a very positive thing.

[Laurie4b]

I think of it not as "guidance counselor" but as "general contractor." I'm still in charge of the project, but I look for the best subcontractors.

[EKS]

Hey Colleen--

 

It seems as though we are in the same boat, and thinking along the same lines. Just last night I blogged about this very issue! For the math, I really recommend trying ALEKS (for yourself). It is great for a quick review. I finished Algebra I in 40 hours and Geometry in 20 hours.

 

Other than that, all I can say is that it's really difficult! And I don't have nearly the amount of stuff going on that you do.

[Jackie in AR]

You're right. It's hard. I don't know anyone who does it without co-ops or outsourcing, which may exclude the rest of my post. However, I was more in your camp and made mistakes, so maybe you'd prefer someone else to make your mistakes for you. :)

 

What are your reasons for not wanting to outsource? Outsourcing is a practical measure that has kept me able to homeschool the older ones.

 

What I am doing differently than with my first:

 

Getting them into outside classes by 7th or 8th grade.

 

Outsourcing various classes has given my olders a good sized peer group as well, which has been a very positive thing.

 

Laurie has made some good points, Colleen.

 

I'm outsourcing for the first time this year for my 8th grade boys. I have two younger dds (6th and 2nd grades this year). I tend to gravitate towards teacher-intensive materials, and I'm not willing to give those up because they are the ones that will assist me in academically guiding my dc to where I want them to go. As you know, teacher-intensive materials come with a price; it was stressful last year trying to keep my boys challenged, which required me to be up to speed on their topics, and getting to everyone when they needed some teacher time.

 

This year, we're adding to the mix a couple of extended family situations (MIL's recent stroke and BIL's possible bone marrow transplant). There is no way to determine how much time we'll spend with these family concerns over the next few months.

 

So dh and I have decided to outsource some classes for our boys this year. We don't want them to be short-changed due to the fact that I'm pulled in several directions.

 

They'll be taking both high school Latin I and a Classical Writing tutorial online. I plan to sit in on all of the classes and keep up with the material; for CW, I'll be the one analyzing their weekly writing assignments. But having someone else do the weekly teaching will give me some breathing room. We'll also participate in a virtual TOG co-op for their dialectic level history discussion each week. Again, I'll keep up with their weekly readings, but I'll only be "on" for teaching about 5 weeks of the year.

 

I just wanted to share some additional thoughts on the pros of outsourcing before high school. Good luck to you as you work towards finding the right balance for your family.

[Michelle in MO]

do what you're able to do best with your ds, and then outsource as many things as you can, particularly those subjects that are not your forte.

 

I only have three, as opposed to your little "band of brothers" (I love that!), but I found it very difficult to keep up with everything. I did Omnibus and Latin with them, as well as history. Those are my stronger areas.

 

I tried to do math; that one I definitely should have outsourced, at least trying to find a tutor that could come to our house a couple of times per week.

 

I did have to keep pace with my oldest for a while with chemistry last year, but then she eventually caught on and I allowed her to work independently.

 

I outsourced writing last year, which I was very pleased with. However, I did still have to keep up with making them do the assignments.

 

I still had to check everyone's work in math, grammar, vocabulary, etc. That alone took a lengthy part of my day.

 

I guess I would recommend a more hands-on approach as a mother in the subjects you do well in or feel the need to more closely supervise. Otherwise, outsource if at all possible. The h.s. load simply gets to be too much.

 

Try not to worry or fret too much if you feel like you're dashing around, not always keeping on top of everything. Somehow my older two have managed to do pretty well, academically and otherwise, despite my fumbling attempts. :)

[Beth in SW WA]

Colleen,

 

I understand your angst :)

 

CD math has been a lifesaver. Prof Mosely does the teaching, I do the correcting.

 

We outsourced Latin to the Potters School (last year they had a local tutor).

 

I read, read, read when I catch a minute here and there. Last night I tried reading Conceptual Physics by the last few minutes of daylight out on my deck (the only quiet place in the house on a Sunday night) before I realized that history/lit will be my forte'. Upper level sciences are NOT for me.

 

I'm putting my K'er in a local Christian classical school. God is not calling me to teach kids at 2 completely ends of an educational spectrum. Its so freeing to know that I don't have to, nor should I, do it all.

 

Keep us posted on how you're doing. Isn't it wonderful that we have this "hive" to come to for advice and encouragement??

 

Resistance is futile....:)

[Zoraida]

I think the best advice I ever received was from SWB in The Well Educated Mind on pages 22-23 about scheduling self education time. I like the advice about starting out slow for 30 minutes per day 4 days per week. I never studied Latin in high school and math was my worst subject. I knew I would have to learn these two subjects if I was going to teach my own children. So I decided for two days during the week I would teach myself upper level math and the other two days I would teach my self Latin. With math I began with Saxon 76 and with Latin I used The Latin Road to English Grammar. I started this self education for myself about 5 years ago and I completed Saxon 76, Algebra 1/2, Algebra 1 and Algebra 2. The amazing thing that I discovered about teaching myself math is that I was actually learning Algebra. I could never grasp Algebra when I was in high school. I have an unproven theory about why some students have an easier time with math in high school while others can never learn any upper level math. I think it might have something to do with maturity. Now that I'm older and wiser and see the importance in an education I think it is easier for a person to learn a new concept where as when your younger you usually ask "whats the use". Anyways, I also completed all three levels of The Latin Road to English Grammar. All of this was done on only 30 minutes of undistracted time for 4 days per week. I would get up in the morning make a cup of hot tea and than set my microwave timer for 30 minutes. When the timer went off I would stop and pick up where I left off the next day. Every time the timer went off I was totally amazed at how much I learned and how many math problems one can do in 30 minutes.

Blessings

 

Zoraida

[Jugglin'5]

I get to be mom, not, teacher-mom-thing-to-be-thwarted-by-young-warrior-son.

 

:lol:

[Jugglin'5]

Colleen,

 

I am in the same boat you are - rising 8th grader, Algebra looming, etc. A co-op has been a great lifesaver for me, since I get the science, Omnibus, and writing taken care of. I'm the co-op Latin teacher. I find that teaching others' children weighs even more heavily. There is no algebra at co-op, so I still have to deal with that.

 

Before the co-op opportunity came up last year, My plan was similar to what others have suggested. Teach my strengths (Latin, Omnibus, logic), and encourage self-sufficiency or outsource the other subjects. I would probably have gone with Chalkdust for Algebra, and Apologia for science since it is very easy for a child to do independently. Since we now have the co-op, I am planning to be a bit more involved in Algebra.

 

I am trying to look at it as a new intellectual challenge to keep myself from stagnating.:tongue_smilie: I'm sure you'll do wonderfully!

[Cedarmom]

Since I only have one son theorectically it should be easy to keep up. But, I still struggle. He is a very fast learner, and my old brain just isn't as fast as his. He does math and science with dad and goes to a debate class. I read and keep up with him with the Great Books(using Omnibus). The other areas, I try not for 100% mastery, more like 70%. In logic, I read the lessons (usually) but did not answer the questions. But I knew enough to be able to discuss them with my son. In latin, my son memorizes much quicker than I do. I think he could probably go faster on his own, but he enjoys having me as his study buddy, so we go at my pace. Many kids get tired of doing Latin, and my son still enjoys it, so hopefully a slower pace with enjoyment is good enough. My son will be a junior, and is able to do most things on his own. His math and science he usually just looks at the book and goes, but occasionally needs his dad's help. Great books could be on his own, it is just more interesting to have someone to discuss it with. We use Omnibus, which has a teacher's key, and so you could get by without reading the books.

[JennW in SoCal]

Like everyone else, I found outsourcing to be a huge lifesaver. But don't feel that if you outsource you are completely abandoning control over a subject to someone else because it can be as something as simple as having a tutor once a week for math or Latin or any subject. A homeschool mom I know has gotten many area kids through Algebra I and II by tutoring them once a week. It is so great -- she gives some lessons in whatever math program the family is using, has the kids do some practice problems with her, then she assigns the work to do the rest of the week. Its a win-win situation. She gets a little extra income and the parents of these kids get some relief and the kids learn algebra.

 

Another point worth mentioning is that while your kids are growing and maturing physically, their minds are also maturing so that the way they learn changes and your own style of teaching/mentoring/guiding/nagging changes along with them. Homeschooling my teens now often feels like a study group session from college as we tackle Latin together, or discuss books together, or laugh over stupid math mistakes. My study skills are of course more advanced and more efficient, so that I feel like I can stay a baby-step ahead of them, but their minds are more sprightly than mine, and they'll often quickly pick up on things while I'm still scratching my head!

[Colleen]

I so appreciate all of you taking the time to share your advice. I have to admit, though, that I found it rather discouraging to hear "outsource" over and over when I said I'm not planning on doing that just yet. Although when I said outsource, I was not speaking in terms of online courses; I was referring to classes that take us away from home.

 

There is one "homeschool school" (not a co-op) available to me that would meet my criteria. I'd originally considered having Jan take a class or two there this year, 8th grade. I've since decided against it because I don't see the "pros" outweighing the "cons". It would lighten my load to an extent, but it would also require me to drive a half hour each way, twice a week, with all my other guys along for the ride. I'm not willing at this point, with a crew of of young children, to start driving around during the school day in order to get in a class here or there. Next year, when Jan is actually a high school student, I'd be more willing to make that time investment, but I feel like this is our last year to keep it relatively simple.

 

I don't have co-op possibilities, and I'm unsure of any tutoring options ~ or if/how that would really ease my workload. I'm planning to have Jan begin OSU's online German course, and will likely have him do a Bravewriter class or two. He uses and enjoys Lial's Intro Algebra and is also looking forward to Apologia's Physical Science class. He would actually be fine working almost entirely independently with those materials; it's really a matter of me wanting to be familier with what my children are learning.

 

To that end, Zoraida's advice re self-education is likely the best medicine. I need to be more self-disciplined. I do self-educate, but I want to learn what I want to learn, kwim?;) And when the end of the day rolls around, I want to read my Sunday NY Times, not curl up with an upper-level math book. So I appreciate the reminder to set aside at least a small bit of time each day ~ 30 minutes, for example ~ to study something that may not be my first (or second:tongue_smilie:) choice. Knowing that I only need to study it for X amount of time in one sitting would help. And since I carve out time to run regularly, I can certainly do the same with regard to my older children's studies. Self-discipline is indeed the name of the game!

 

Thanks, all, for chatting with me.:)

[Janice in NJ]

I (and others) have likely posted along these lines before; bear with me, please, as I'm a tad overwhelmed. When I consider the subjects my oldest is now tackling, my heart beats a bit faster and I turn my thoughts to the simplicity of schooling my little people: So basic, so easy! And what's more, it's repeat territory. Not so, of course, in the case of my oldest. I've forgotten the vast majority of algebra I learned oh so many years ago. Physical sciences were not my forte. I didn't study Latin or logic...How on earth do you stay one step ahead of your older students?!

 

I know some folks rely on their spouse to help with a given subject or two; that's not happening here. Others outsource at this stage; I'd prefer not to do that quite yet. And still others turn it all over their older student and don't involve themselves a great deal. While I certainly encourage independent learning ~ and my oldest does very well in that respect ~ I want to be aware of what he's learning. I feel it's my responsibility to be able to help him work through trouble spots he may encounter in his studies.

 

I'm as eager to self-educate, read, familiarize (or re-familiarize) as the next gal, but how realistic is this when one is raising and schooling several children and helping run a business? Someone toss me a lifeline here, please!:D

 

It looks like you have covered the choices that I know of.

 

1. If you know the material, it's easier to teach it. I agree; teaching little, little ones is easier. That material is familiar to most of us. All I needed to do was pick a program and teach that subject step-by-step with that program. Done. You can do the same with high-school material that's familiar. If the subjects you want to teach aren't familiar, then that won't work for those subjects. I agree; you have to look at other options.

 

2. You can rely on your spouse to be that person if they are subject-knowledgeable and they have the time to interact with the child. Once again, that's fine if that doesn't work for your family. That doesn't happen here either. Dh has a very demanding job. He provides support in other ways, but we have not opted to have him teach subjects. As a couple, we've decide that hsing with that model wouldn't fit our family. So we don't do it. :001_smile:

 

3. As you said, others out-source. If this doesn't suit your family, then you shouldn't pursue it either. It works for certain subjects for certain kids for certain years around here. But once again, you have to do what works for your family.

 

4. Yes, I agree that a 4th choice is to have the child self-educate. If that isn't what you want to do, then you must look elsewhere for your answer. But I HAVE used this option with a high-school elective last year and it worked great. It was a TERRIFIC subject for my son, and I still know NADA about it!!!! :D

 

5. The 5th choice is the path that I have chosen for most of the subjects that I don't fall into category #1 with. Even the ones that I have outsourced via on-line classes, I still try to develop a certain level of understanding so that I can help when the child gets completely stuck. I have found that sometimes the child just needs a live person to toss ideas around with. So yes, I agree: "I feel it's my responsibility to be able to help him work through trouble spots he may encounter in his studies." It has been a long, tough haul. And I'm still hustling, but that has been the plan that has worked the best around here.

 

So here comes the encouragement: You HAVE thought this through! I agree. Those are the choices. But they're tough choices; I know. Picking a realistic course of action can be very tough. Not picking can be tougher. I don't have an easy solution for you, but I would encourage you to realistically view your options and choose. I know, I know - nothing seems perfect. There are tons of "but......" in most of my final decisions, but they really are the best choices for our family. Not facing the down-side of my choices but expecting all of my choices to have up-sides ONLY is no way to move in the direction of grace and peace.

 

Colleen, you also said, "I'm as eager to self-educate, read, familiarize (or re-familiarize) as the next gal, but how realistic is this when one is raising and schooling several children and helping run a business?" I think your answer can be found in your statement. PLEASE understand that I am offering this to you with a genuine hope that you will find a place of peace. Truly I want you to find an answer that you can use, because I KNOW that you are a can-do!!!! person. I am passionate about self-education, but I know that there are people on these boards who are even MORE eager than I am. They will only ever choose options #1 or #5. But I am living my life; you said, "...how realistic is this when one is _________"; my blank is different from yours; but MY blank keeps me from choosing #1 or #5 all of the time. I'm happy with dipping into choices #2-#4 when it rises to the surface as the "better" choice for our one-size-does-NOT-fit-all family.

 

I would encourage you to re-evaluate your lines between good-better-best and seek a place of peace that fits your family.

 

I wish you GREAT peace in your decision!!!!

With hope!

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

[readwithem]

Fabulous as usual Janice. :)

[Colleen]

Colleen, you also said, "I'm as eager to self-educate, read, familiarize (or re-familiarize) as the next gal, but how realistic is this when one is raising and schooling several children and helping run a business?" I think your answer can be found in your statement. PLEASE understand that I am offering this to you with a genuine hope that you will find a place of peace...I would encourage you to re-evaluate your lines between good-better-best and seek a place of peace that fits your family.

 

Thanks for your advice and well wishes, Janice. This is going to sound silly: I've read your post through a couple of times and I feel like you're sending me a subliminal message but I'm not getting it...? I guess I don't really feel so much like I'm choosing which path to take right now. I was at that point when I was deciding whether or not to have Jan take a class or two. Now I'm just thinking more about how to structure life such that I can be more on top of what he's learning. Which is where the self-discipline and self-education come in.:D

[Janice in NJ]

Nothing under the surface; just well-wishes coming your way. :001_smile: It took me a while to post my original comments; I started typing and then got pulled away. It the meantime you posted a follow-up.

 

It sounds like you've found your answer. I'm psyched for you!

 

Peace,

Janice

[Robin in Tx]

Colleen, I hope this doesn't turn out to be another discouraging post. I just want to tell you what an online course did for us last year. We took one for Latin. First, I can assure you that there is more than ample opportunity to stay on top of what your son is learning with online/long distance classes. They can't possibly cover everything in the short hour or two that they meet. I found that I had to be almost just as involved as if I were teaching, except for not having to prepare the lessons. I found it easier to learn along side dd and stay up with what she was doing because I was a sideline cheerleader instead of the coach with the game plan. Lifting that responsibility made a much larger difference than what I anticipated. I actually was lukewarm about the class in the end, but several things made the class very worthwhile - 1) I didn't have to be the expert on top of the material who kept at least a step ahead, 2) I still had to be involved enough to actually know what was going on and where the rough spots were and I did manage to learn alongside, 3) I didn't have to argue with dd about what to do when because she performed more willingly for the course instructor (sigh...), 4) Latin got done, 5) the time it freed up paid back in spades re: mental energy to plan and teach the remaining courses, 6) it kept us accountable and on tract, 7) I didn't have to depend on my own motivation all the time, 8) Latin got done :), 9) in spite of its weaknesses, dd actually enjoyed the class and it became her favorite subject, 10) and did I mention? Latin got done.

 

I know you aren't asking whether or not you want to do online classes, but when you do get to that point (say in a year or so), I just wanted you to know that with online classes it is a LOT easier to keep up with what your student is learning because that's all you have to do... keep up with it. Not stay ahead of it or plan it. Since keeping up with your son's studies was an element of your original question, I wantd to encourage you that you will not experience detachment from your son's studies if he is in a weekly online class. You will still need (or want) to facilitate what he learns and how he navigates through the course, and the only thing you'll be missing out on is the planning and preparation and assignment giving. It does make it easier to facilitate, in my experience, because not as much energy has been sucked out and you will be responding together to someone else's lesson plan. You will still oversee things and keep up with the material much more easily.

 

Hope that makes sense, and that it helps if and when you get to the point that you have to do something....

 

Good luck with keeping it simple this year, though. No words of advice because I'm outsourcing some things as well (more for social reasons, to be honest).

 

Robin

[Colleen]

I am starting to feel kinda silly for wasting everyone's time; I think perhaps I wasn't very clear in my original post. Or maybe my thoughts are evolving as I read this thread.

 

Because my oldest works really well independently, I haven't felt like his teacher/coach for a couple of years now. Certainly not in the case of math, science, or Latin. He does his thing and I check his work and/or answer questions as needed. There's not been any need for me to prepare lessons; the materials we use are very straight-forward in that respect. I don't plan anything, per se. And we don't butt heads as far as his work is concerned. He does his thing and I don't have to push him, so I don't have this drive to see if he'll perform more/better for a different instructor.

 

Those are some reasons why I'm not jumping on the online class bandwagon. (Although as I mentioned, I do plan to pursue OSU's online German; it's just too good to pass up.) I don't see online courses, at this point, being any more effective than what we already do. I guess bottom line it's just a matter of me wanting to be more tuned in to what he's studying, and that's hard when I'm pulled in so many other directions. It's easy for me to be more tuned in to the younger guys, let him (my oldest) work independently ~ and not connect with him (re his studies) as often or as deeply as I'd like.

 

Any-hoo, thanks for sharing your experiences, Robin.:)

[Robin in Tx]

Okay, yes... I definitely misunderstood. I read your initial post, in which you said you didn't study latin and asked how does one stay a step ahead of their older students; and you mentioned that you'd prefer not to turn it all over to independent study (which I took to mean that you want to stay involved)... and you wondered about how realistic it is to self educate and refamiliarize with these advanced subjects...

 

So yeah, I kinda thought you meant that you want to be involved, but that you felt overwhelmed by the prospect of staying one step ahead and self educating, etc.... I would consider any effort to stay a step ahead part of the planning process.

 

But now it sounds like your concern is you feel pulled in so many other directions, that you feel a little out of tune to what he's studying (paraphrasing your words here). So am I understanding you correctly that what you are really inquiring about is how to devote the time necessary to have that sort of involvement with your oldest and juggle that with your other responsibilties and the needs of the younger children?

 

I wish I could help you with that, of course it is not something I have experience with, though. Good luck with finding your balance. I don't know how practical this advice is, but the one thing I hear repeatedly about this topic is the advice to always teach to the oldest child and fold everything else in around that, and that the benefits of putting your priority and efforts on the oldest will trickle down both directly and indirectly.

 

Good luck, Colleen!

Robin

[ChrisN in NY]

Colleen,

 

First, I don't think you've wasted anyone's time.

 

I understand where you are. My oldest was a quick learner, and I had five youngers. When he was in 12th, my youngest was in 1st. We were broke, couldn't afford cc classes, etc.

 

We just did the best we could. He was mostly independent, and by the end of high school we didn't butt heads anymore. Looking back, I flew by the seat of my pants quite a bit with him.

 

Our biggest challenge was Alg2/Trig. He never got totally stuck on a lesson (thankfully!), but there were problems here and there that he couldn't figure out. He didn't know WHY what he did was wrong, or he couldn't determine the RIGHT way to solve a problem.

 

When it got to that point, I got out the solutions manual (we used Foerster) and the text. Usually, given enough time, I could figure out the why's, and I led him through the reasoning for the correct solution.

 

Sometimes I didn't get it anymore than he did. So we BOTH looked at the solutions manual and discussed it. And we'd manage to figure it out together. This was still LEARNING for him, just not in the traditional sense. It worked.

 

I'm on Alg 2/Trig for the second time with dd#1 this fall. I figure I'll be able to do a bit better job on it. This dd, however, is taking Advanced Chemistry this year (her choice). I've already told her, I don't really know it, don't have time to learn it for myself, and when she gets really stuck we'll figure it out together. If that fails, we'll email Dr. Wile.

 

It'll just have to be fine.

 

I am self-educating in Latin. It's one where I can't really fly by the seat of my pants. I'm about 10 chapters ahead of dd.

 

HTH,

[Colleen]

Thanks for chiming in and sharing your experience.:)

[Colleen]

I apologize for apparently not expressing myself well in this thread.

 

I read your initial post, in which you said you didn't study latin and asked how does one stay a step ahead of their older students; and you mentioned that you'd prefer not to turn it all over to independent study (which I took to mean that you want to stay involved)... and you wondered about how realistic it is to self educate and refamiliarize with these advanced subjects...

 

So yeah, I kinda thought you meant that you want to be involved, but that you felt overwhelmed by the prospect of staying one step ahead and self educating, etc.... I would consider any effort to stay a step ahead part of the planning process.

 

Yes, of course I want to stay involved, and I thought that was evident from my posts here. I want to make sure I'm familiar with the material my son is studying. I haven't thought of self-education, of staying involved and a step ahead, as part of the planning process, so I misunderstood what you meant there. I thought you were referring to lesson plans, which aren't part of my modus operandi.

 

But now it sounds like your concern is you feel pulled in so many other directions, that you feel a little out of tune to what he's studying (paraphrasing your words here). So am I understanding you correctly that what you are really inquiring about is how to devote the time necessary to have that sort of involvement with your oldest and juggle that with your other responsibilties and the needs of the younger children?

 

Right. Finding the time (and, as I noted before, the self-discipline!) to make sure I'm up to speed on what it is my oldest is studying, interacting with him as needed, while teaching four younger students and dealing with other responsibilities.

 

I don't know how practical this advice is, but the one thing I hear repeatedly about this topic is the advice to always teach to the oldest child and fold everything else in around that, and that the benefits of putting your priority and efforts on the oldest will trickle down both directly and indirectly.

 

 

Yes, there's some truth to that. Among other things, once you've gone through "X" once with the oldest, it will likely be easier the second (and third and fourth...) go 'round with the others. Teaching to the oldest works well when the oldest is still fairly young. But once the student is more mature, more independent and learning more advanced subjects, it's less realistic.

 

Thanks for your time, Robin. We don't "meet" here very often these days, but I'm always glad to see a post from you.:)

[Kelli in TN]

I Because my oldest works really well independently, I haven't felt like his teacher/coach for a couple of years now. Certainly not in the case of math, science, or Latin. He does his thing and I check his work and/or answer questions as needed. There's not been any need for me to prepare lessons; the materials we use are very straight-forward in that respect. I don't plan anything, per se. And we don't butt heads as far as his work is concerned. He does his thing and I don't have to push him, so I don't have this drive to see if he'll perform more/better for a different instructor.

 

 

 

. I guess bottom line it's just a matter of me wanting to be more tuned in to what he's studying, and that's hard when I'm pulled in so many other directions. It's easy for me to be more tuned in to the younger guys, let him (my oldest) work independently ~ and not connect with him (re his studies) as often or as deeply as I'd like.

 

.:)

 

My Sarah is very much like this. She doesn't want to discuss things with me, she wants to do her thing and be left alone.

 

I have her write summaries and reports for feedback. Since our whole family does the same historical period at the same time (not together, too much age difference, but everyone is just at the same place) I stay plugged in with Sarah by studying some aspect of it on my own and just letting natural conversation occur whenever possible. For example, we are on the verge of the Civil War. So I am reading this book. When time is tight I will often watch a Netflix documentary on a topic that we are studying as well. It gives me an angle with which I can spark some conversation with her.

 

I did not do much outsourcing. She took a physical science class once. We employed a private math tutor who came to our house once a week. But beyond that the core curriculum has been muddled through here, by us. For better or for worse. I did not want to be disrupting our school day to drive Sarah to this class and that class. It was enough to drive her to flute and band. I could not add in driving her to math and English and history, and expect her younger siblings to have sufficient time to complete their studies.

[Mad Jenny Flint]

Hey, Colleen,

 

My older child (I have two) is 13 and entering 8th grade, also. My younger child is 9 and entering 4th grade. The age gap is perfect for "folding in" a la the WTM sequence, but not so much in terms of being at the same level. Still, we do a lot of folding in, too.

 

The problem is trying to fit in everything we do in a normal school day and feeling prepared enough to do it. For example, there was a period of a couple of months this year when we hit quite a bump with Henle First Year (Unit 5). I wasn't sure I had chosen the best avenue for ds, and was feeling very frustrated. I checked out the boards and bought some Lingua Latina materials as a supplement, we reviewed Unit 5, my son took more time for memorization, and- it clicked. So, we had to move somewhat more slowly because I hadn't kept myself ahead enough to know why there was a problem. That was my mistake, and that is what made me realize exactly what you are coming to- I need to be more prepared with the information for each of his subjects so I can "have my hand in the pot" so to speak.

 

My son is very bright, grasps new concepts well, works independently and eagerly, so I get what you are saying. Online or outsourced classes don't make sense for us right now. They would take more resources from us than they would give to us.

 

The missing piece is just that I have to get off my butt and start learning ahead, just a little, in all his subjects. I am trying hard the last month or so not to see that as such a huge hurdle. I have made the realization and now I am in the mental place where I can begin to plan how to do this... I think Zoraida's advice was right on target, with 30 minutes a day. I would like to do a bit more because I also feel it is important to keep up with his reading and have good literature discussions, but I will have to learn to read more quickly and just BE MORE DISCIPLINED. Sigh. I thought that already I was a pretty disciplined bird. And, I am. It just takes a lot. It's been a tough realization!

 

So, I think I get what you are saying. I want to be hands-on with my kids, I want to give them valuable educational experiences, and I know I can do it as well as any online course at this time. I just have to figure out the best way, a plan that will not drive me out of my sanity. And, sometimes I will just have to accept that when he hits a bump we may have to figure it out together. He will watch me model information-seeking, research, and processing information. Those are great skills to see modeled!

 

I will do my best to keep ahead, plan my own self-education time and count it as "lesson planning and teacher development" time, and try not to worry so much about it when I am not perfect. Nothing is going to be broken beyond repair if I am putting in my true best efforts. I am sure you can say the same. Just keep plugging away.

 

I hope you can find some encouragement in my ramblings.

[Mad Jenny Flint]

I did not do much outsourcing. She took a physical science class once. We employed a private math tutor who came to our house once a week. But beyond that the core curriculum has been muddled through here, by us. For better or for worse. I did not want to be disrupting our school day to drive Sarah to this class and that class. It was enough to drive her to flute and band. I could not add in driving her to math and English and history, and expect her younger siblings to have sufficient time to complete their studies.

 

 

Kelli,

 

You are my hero. This is very encouraging because it shows that it can be done, and there are many paths, none of them "right" or "wrong." Just different, and all able to be accomplished with resources and motivation.

[Robin in Tx]

Colleen, I hope you get the encouragement and find the "balance" you need... I know that any comment from me will ring hollow since I have absolutely no expertise dealing with multiple aged children, so I won't even pretend to act like I understand what you are facing... I can only express my hope that you find a comfortable, peaceful solution.

 

Best wishes to you!

Robin

[LaurieM]

I (and others) have likely posted along these lines before; bear with me, please, as I'm a tad overwhelmed. When I consider the subjects my oldest is now tackling, my heart beats a bit faster and I turn my thoughts to the simplicity of schooling my little people: So basic, so easy! And what's more, it's repeat territory. Not so, of course, in the case of my oldest. I've forgotten the vast majority of algebra I learned oh so many years ago. Physical sciences were not my forte. I didn't study Latin or logic...How on earth do you stay one step ahead of your older students?!

 

I know some folks rely on their spouse to help with a given subject or two; that's not happening here. Others outsource at this stage; I'd prefer not to do that quite yet. And still others turn it all over their older student and don't involve themselves a great deal. While I certainly encourage independent learning ~ and my oldest does very well in that respect ~ I want to be aware of what he's learning. I feel it's my responsibility to be able to help him work through trouble spots he may encounter in his studies.

 

I'm as eager to self-educate, read, familiarize (or re-familiarize) as the next gal, but how realistic is this when one is raising and schooling several children and helping run a business? Someone toss me a lifeline here, please!:D

 

I don't have littles, just high schoolers now, and I'm not running a home business, but I certainly have days when I long for those elementary years! I knew the basics and still managed to effortlessly learn more alongside the kids. What a fun time!

 

My spouse helps by cheering us all on, he's my sounding board when I'm stressed and overwhelmed, he's the taxi cab for sports and field trips, and now he's helping with driving instruction, but he does not teach the regular courses. We also don't outsource such as co-ops, ect. but we have used German Online and private Japanese lessons.

 

As for staying one step ahead... I'm not! I really wish I could but some (most?) of the material is very progressive and not something that one can just jump into in the middle. Mostly I have my students "teach" me to bring me up to speed a bit and then we can puzzle through together. Not perfect, but doable.

 

This post doesn't offer you any helpful advice, I just want you to know that you are not alone. Like you, I find there are only so many hours in my day and I can only wear one hat at a time!

[gardenschooler]

 

He uses and enjoys Lial's Intro Algebra and is also looking forward to Apologia's Physical Science class. He would actually be fine working almost entirely independently with those materials; it's really a matter of me wanting to be familiar with what my children are learning.

 

 

 

 

 

I think you can keep up in less than 30 minutes a day. I sometimes just read Apologia's study guide (with my solutions handy) instead of the chapter. I schedule time before each test to go over dd's answers to the study guide with her (we grade and correct as we go), and that way, I've got an idea of what the module was about, she can explain to me what she knows, and the whole thing takes about 30 minutes, once every two weeks. This also helps me be sure she is actually ready for the test.

 

For the Lial's, you could choose a few problems that he has missed, look over them in the solutions guide yourself so you're sure of how they're supposed to be worked, then have him correct them with you.

 

I find I do better when I try to spend a little bit of time with my dd13 in each subject, rather than all for some subjects and not much for another. I would have never thought I'd be fine with the idea of doing chemistry at home, but here we are. It's just putting one foot in front of the other, same as always.

 

I'm actually more apprehensive about the history and literature we have for this year than the science and math. But I'm just going to dive in. I don't have any choice, really - outsourcing isn't what I want, either, and it's not even an option in those subjects. She'll go out for Spanish, but that's it for this year.

 

Don't feel discouraged, Colleen. Just keep going.

[Colleen]

Thank you for this post. I so appreciate the practical suggestions and encouragement!

[Colleen]

Jenny, you echoed my thoughts exactly.

 

Online or outsourced classes don't make sense for us right now. They would take more resources from us than they would give to us.

 

That's a good way of expressing it, yes.

 

The missing piece is just that I have to get off my butt and start learning ahead, just a little, in all his subjects. I am trying hard the last month or so not to see that as such a huge hurdle.

 

This is key for me ~ not being daunted by the task hand.

 

I'm so glad you posted ~ thank you!

[Colleen]

I did not want to be disrupting our school day to drive Sarah to this class and that class. It was enough to drive her to flute and band. I could not add in driving her to math and English and history, and expect her younger siblings to have sufficient time to complete their studies.

 

This is a concern of mine as well. A twice-weekly, one hour class in and of itself doesn't sound particularly time-consuming, but given the drive time and the drain on all of us, it's not worth it.

[Colleen]

It does help to know others face the same challenges; thanks for posting. I appreciate the time everyone's taken to respond.:)

[Brenda in MA]

Online or outsourced classes don't make sense for us right now. They would take more resources from us than they would give to us.

 

Jenny & Colleen,

 

I understand where you both are coming from. I avoided signing up my oldest (rising Senior) for outside/on-line courses until last year because I was also concerned on several fronts. First, I didn't want the outside course(s) to "take over" our homeschooling, because I knew that they would become a priority over our other subjects. I also didn't want to disrupt our school day to drive my son to/from outside classes, and I liked the flexibility of being able to take vacations whenever we wanted to.

 

I did sign my son up for some on-line courses this past year, not because I didn't think I could teach certain subjects, but because I felt he needed the outside interaction with another teacher as he moves towards college. In retrospect, I should have signed him up for on-line courses a year or two sooner. He did really enjoy the interaction with the other instructors and being part of a classroom for things like literature discussion. Those classes gave him the confidence that he can "compete" with other students in a classroom setting and do well.

 

I'm writing this not to try and convince you to consider on-line (or other outside classes) right now, I just wanted to share my experience that I felt exactly like you do when my son was in the 8th grade, but that his needs changed as he progressed through high school, and on-line courses have been a big plus to his homeschooling experience.

 

Now that he can drive, he will be taking some CC classes this fall. I consider this another "stepping stone" towards college and independence that he really needs. Maybe some kids don't need the gradual transition of increasing responsibility/outside courses to be successful in college, but I know it's very important for this particular child.

 

Just some perspective,

Brenda

[Colleen]

I'm writing this not to try and convince you to consider on-line (or other outside classes) right now, I just wanted to share my experience that I felt exactly like you do when my son was in the 8th grade, but that his needs changed as he progressed through high school, and on-line courses have been a big plus to his homeschooling experience.

 

Now that he can drive, he will be taking some CC classes this fall. I consider this another "stepping stone" towards college and independence that he really needs. Maybe some kids don't need the gradual transition of increasing responsibility/outside courses to be successful in college, but I know it's very important for this particular child.

 

Thanks for sharing this, Brenda. I wonder if people are mistakenly assuming that I'm against outsourcing classes altogether. That isn't the case. I've mentioned several times in this thread that my son will start OSU's online German class soon. I am friends with Julie of Bravewriter and my boys will likely take a BW class or two over the years. If my oldest doesn't go to high school next year (I prefer that he not, but nothing is carved in stone), I may take advantage of the "homeschool school" I referred to earlier ~ particularly for lab science. And it's highly likely my guys will go the dual enrollment route during their high school years, allowing them to take community classes.

 

All of that to say, I understand that there are advantages to outsourcing and have nothing against taking advantage of that when the time is right. I don't think this is yet that time.:)

[harmonyartmom]

Hi Colleen,

 

I read this thread yesterday and then this morning and I have been thinking about ever since. I have two boys in high school and like you, I feel a little stretched to "keep up". We are into our fourth week of the new school year and I have had to regroup twice already.

 

Here is what I discovered:

 

My boys are ready for the rhetoric type discussions that are encouraged in TWTM for this time of their schooling. There has been a huge leap from the fact finding of the logic stage and the beginnings of connections in the dialectic stage. Here, squarely in the rhetoric stage, my boys absolutely need to write and discuss all that they are learning.

 

If we are to step up to this new stage of learning, I need to be a bit prepared to at least offer something to the table. I opted to use TOG for just this reason. In the weeks that I have time and energy, I read along with their assignments. The weeks where it just doesn't happen, I read the teacher's notes. I don't feel like I am cheating, just being realistic. So if you are able to even read a portion of the weekly assignments or find good summaries of info online, I would use that time to prepare a little for a discussion with your son.

 

That is the first thing I concluded.

 

Here is the second:

 

The sheer volume was killing me. I needed to trim away some of the work in order for us all to not only be able to cover it in a reasonable fashion but to make it enjoyable. For instance, TOG schedules Beowulf in one week, along with a story analysis. That is a ridiculous expectation even knowing we have read the story before. I extended the reading to two weeks and now I am wondering what other books we should cut out and which ones to extend from the schedule.

 

Lesson? Instead of trying to do it all, cut it back to a reasonable amount of work which makes it easier to keep up.

 

Our family cut Latin....I know, it was a big decision. We opted to drop Latin in order to do a better job with Spanish and it was a really good decision. As far as science, we are sticking with sciences I am interested in for the first two years which means biology and marine biology. We will cross the other bridges when we get there. Math we are using a text with accompanying CDs....not my first choice but it helps cut my table time with the boys and they actually like the independence. My older son, now in college, took an online class in 11th grade for writing and he also eventually used CC courses to supplement his learning as soon as he could drive himself. I felt like you did that the driving of children to activities was a waster of time. We don't even participate in sports for that reason. We found a music teacher that comes to our house.

 

So I guess that is my best response from my own experiences. I give it my best shot to "keep up" at least with history and literature and then realistically look at how much we are covering and trim away until it is a good fit.

 

I miss the early days myself.....it goes by too fast.

 

Barb-Harmony Art Mom

[mcconnellboys]

You can do it, Colleen! If I could do it, so can you!

[Colleen]

You can do it, Colleen! If I could do it, so can you!

 

I nominate you to head up my booster club.:D

[Colleen]

Instead of trying to do it all, cut it back to a reasonable amount of work which makes it easier to keep up.

 

That's good advice. I look at all I want to cover and it just isn't realistic.

 

Our family cut Latin....I know, it was a big decision. We opted to drop Latin in order to do a better job with Spanish and it was a really good decision.

 

I am crossing this same bridge with my oldest. I'd planned to continue Latin through at least the first year of high school, but I've had a shift in my thinking. I may instead limit Latin to the middle school years and keep it that. Studying German is a priority here, and Spanish is of interest, too; those two languages suffice during high school. I am still undecided, though, whether or not to have my oldest stick with Latin through this year, 8th grade.

 

As far as science, we are sticking with sciences I am interested in for the first two years which means biology and marine biology. We will cross the other bridges when we get there.

 

Our interest is also life sciences. This year my oldest has Apologia's Physical Science on deck and I'm having a hard time summoning any enthusiasm about it.

 

Thanks for chiming in, Barb. This is a good reminder to me not to try and bite off more than I can chew.

[Jill- OK]

I think you can keep up in less than 30 minutes a day. I sometimes just read Apologia's study guide (with my solutions handy) instead of the chapter.

 

This year I bit the bullet and wrote out daily (weekly) lesson plans, for almost all our subjects. For Apologia Physical Science this week, I just made a note to myself to look through the study guide before the module test and get myself, if not 'up to speed', at least on the similar footing. Familiarizing myself with the most important aspects of the unit will probably be how I 'keep up' with my two oldest this year. (How do you like my use of "quotations", lol? ;-)

[Colleen]

This year I bit the bullet and wrote out daily (weekly) lesson plans, for almost all our subjects. For Apologia Physical Science this week, I just made a note to myself to look through the study guide before the module test and get myself, if not 'up to speed', at least on the similar footing. Familiarizing myself with the most important aspects of the unit will probably be how I 'keep up' with my two oldest this year. (How do you like my use of "quotations", lol? ;-)

 

I haven't felt a need to do "daily lesson plans", but like you, I'll use the Physical Science "study guide" to "familiarize" myself with the material. At least...that's the "goal".

 

:D:D:D

[Mad Jenny Flint]

I think we all have to find our own right time to outsource. Some find it is never necessary, some find it is necessary from an earlier time. I don't know one homeschooler IRL who does things exactly the way I do- we all have to find our own way.

 

It is nice to have validation for the way I have chosen sometimes. We can encourage each other in our various paths without feeling threatened that encouraging someone to do it their way somehow makes our own methods deficient.

 

Just rambling.