Caught my 10 yr old at 1:30am

[SquirrellyMama]

doing his math for today. Ok, I know that doesn't sound bad but this kid is driving me nuts. He's up late, in the middle of the night or at the crack of dawn doing school work. The problem? He's not getting enough sleep and he is a bear all day. If he sleeps in until 7am he is in a rage about not being able to finish his work. If he gets up at 7am he's done by 11am-noon.

 

I have no idea what to do with him. Do I hide his work? Summer break is coming and will provide some relief.

 

Kelly

[*********]

So, what's his deal, LOL.

 

Does he just like to be done with his work early in the day so that he can have the rest of the day free? What's his reason for getting up in the middle of the night to do his school work? That'd help me understand how to respond. Is he just bored, does he ENJOY doing his schoolwork, or is he just trying to get it done?

[Dmmetler]

Can you let him work at night, and then sleep in the next day? My DH is a software engineer, and does his best work in the wee hours of the morning, and that's what he does. Fortunately, except for the occasional meeting, his company is fine with him setting his own schedule.

[JFSinIL]

Sounds like a night owl. Any reason why he can't do his work in the wee hours, and sleep in?

[SquirrellyMama]

So, what's his deal, LOL.

 

Does he just like to be done with his work early in the day so that he can have the rest of the day free? What's his reason for getting up in the middle of the night to do his school work? That'd help me understand how to respond.

 

 

Good question! He does want to be done early so he can have his day free but I think it is more of a competition to be done before his sisters. He's only grouchy when doing his school work.

 

Maybe I should let him do it in the middle of the night so I don't have to deal with his grouchy attitude. He's actually really helpful and quiet when he's done for the day. Any mention of school sends him into another fit.

 

I don't know. I'm tired because he woke me up at 1:30am. I do know his competition with his sisters in a big thing. Considering they often don't get done each day he'd win no matter what.

 

Kelly

[SquirrellyMama]

Can you let him work at night, and then sleep in the next day? My DH is a software engineer, and does his best work in the wee hours of the morning, and that's what he does. Fortunately, except for the occasional meeting, his company is fine with him setting his own schedule.

 

Sounds like a night owl. Any reason why he can't do his work in the wee hours, and sleep in?

 

 

He has been a nite owl since he was a baby :) I would love to let him work at night but he doesn't sleep in. Between hearing my son at 1am and my dh at 4am I'm tired. They aren't very quiet. Maybe I'll talk to him about being quiet and having a better attitude. If not, I'm hiding his school work.

 

Now, if I could just keep my two girls from sneaking away from their work.

 

Kelly

[Parrothead]

I'd lock school books up in the cupboard. He can start school at 7a. If he wants to do tomorrow's work too, he can do it before 9p.

[MomatHWTK]

The Coursera class on ADHD mentioned that one of the lesser known symptoms is insomnia and the accompanying daytime fatigue. I have had insomnia all my life. I tend to work best on an 'up 36 hours, sleep 14' schedule. It is very difficult to manage. Whenever I had big assignments in school or at work, I would just stay up all night to do them and then try to get sleep during the day. Even as a child, I would stay up at night and hide that I was reading or ask permission to stay up and clean my room. My poor mother never understood- she's a morning person.

 

Three of my kids have the same problem. The oldest has medication that helps, the 3 y.o. and the 9 y.o. are usually up half the night with me. (Actually two of us have been up since about 5 a.m. today after a "nap".) Sigh. I know there are folks that think you can create better habits. But we have tried, as soon as we go off the regimented schedule we are back to our nocturnal ways and while trying to establish the "better" habit we are exhausted and miserable.

 

I guess that doesn't give much of an answer. But just know, it may be something out of his control. Goodness knows if I could have controlled my sleep habits I would have when I had a job and had to drag myself out of bed every morning no matter when I'd fallen asleep the night before.

 

Try to work out some compromises. I sleep with earplugs so that DH doesn't wake me when he has to get up early.

[Unicorn.]

Can he do some of tomorrow's work in the evenings, before he goes to bed? Then like Chucki suggests- lock everything away at 9 pm or something?

[Tina]

You could enforce a quiet time in his room in the afternoon maybe? Perhaps he'd nap then?

[*********]

He has been a nite owl since he was a baby :) I would love to let him work at night but he doesn't sleep in.

 

 

Ah. This is important info.

 

My ds is almost 10, so here's what I'd do if it were me:

 

I'd let ds do his school work in the middle of the night if he wanted ,but he then MUST get adequate sleep, either by sleeping in or by taking a nap. I'd allow this so long as it didn't interfere with the rest of the family's day. 10 is plenty old enough to understand that he's not allowed to get up in the middle of the night and do his work if he's going to be grumpy due to lack of sleep.

 

I'd allow it here so long as ds followed the rules. And he couldn't wake us all up, either. If he was doing it and then not sleeping enough (and therefore being grumpy), I'd tell him he wasn't allowed to do it anymore and why. If he disobeyed, I'd enforce disobedience consequences that you have in your house.

 

And in full disclosure, while I'd allow it here at my house if ds followed the rules (get enough sleep, don't wake anyone up), dh would put the kibosh on it. He would think it too weird, and wouldn't want ds up in the middle of the night alone. :D

[SquirrellyMama]

The Coursera class on ADHD mentioned that one of the lesser known symptoms is insomnia and the accompanying daytime fatigue. I have had insomnia all my life. I tend to work best on an 'up 36 hours, sleep 14' schedule. It is very difficult to manage. Whenever I had big assignments in school or at work, I would just stay up all night to do them and then try to get sleep during the day.

 

Three of my kids have the same problem. The oldest has medication that helps, the 3 y.o. and the 9 y.o. are usually up half the night with me. (Actually two of us have been up since about 5 a.m. today after a "nap".) Sigh. I know there are folks that think you can create better habits. But we have tried, as soon as we go off the regimented schedule we are back to our nocturnal ways and while trying to establish the "better" habit we are exhausted and miserable.

 

I guess that doesn't give much of an answer. But just know, it may be something out of his control. Goodness knows if I could have controlled my sleep habits I would have when I had a job and had to drag myself out of bed every morning no matter when I'd fallen asleep the night before.

 

Try to work out some compromises. I sleep with earplugs so that DH doesn't wake me when he has to get up early.

 

 

I had similar sleep habits like my son's but not until high school. I would sleep a little, get up at 1am, do my work and then go back to sleep. But... I was 16 not 10 and I was quiet.

[SquirrellyMama]

Right now he's finishing up school work and alternating between "boo to school", doing a tv western indian yell and yelling "la, la, la, la, la".

 

Kelly

[SquirrellyMama]

 

And in full disclosure, while I'd allow it here at my house if ds followed the rules (get enough sleep, don't wake anyone up), dh would put the kibosh on it. He would think it too weird, and wouldn't want ds up in the middle of the night alone. :D

 

 

Sounds like my dh :) I'll talk with my 10 yr old today when we have both calmed down. I have enforced some consequences so he's really good about not coming to me at 4:30am-5am asking for school work. He does what he can without me but he's very impatient by the time I'm awake. Maybe it isn't that he's not getting enough sleep. I wonder if he works himself up into a fit by the time I'm ready.

 

Kelly

[SKL]

My dd6 will sneak and read at night. Since she shares a room with her sister, this is doubly bad. Hard to stop it when they have hundreds of tempting books in their bedroom. I love that she reads, but she needs to sleep too! I have no helpful ideas so far, but will be listening.

[Jennifer3141]

I have a DS and DH like that and I am like that to a lesser degree.

 

For DS and DH, it's a sensory thing. Ever notice how muted the world seems in the middle of the night? Everything is darker and quieter and it's easier to get thinking done (provided you're not tired).

 

For myself, I'm just a night owl. I prefer the moon to the sun. But I have found my DH happily awake in the middle of the night often enough now to know that that is just where some of his more technical thinking is most easily done.

[SKL]

I was thinking some more about this. I am a lot like this. I work best when nobody else is awake because I know they will not come bothering me, I won't be distracted by hearing other people's comings and goings, nobody will expect me to break for a meal in the middle of a deep thought, etc. It is very important to me to be able to work at my own pace and without being checked on in the process. Since I am a mom and I work for a traditional business (many clients are bankers who send me emails before 9am), I still have to get up in the morning so I am often low on sleep. In my 46 years I've tried to come up with a better schedule, but I can't seem to do it. Bah. But the reason I'm posting this is: do you think your son would be happier if you gave him a little more space during his school time - a nice long block of time when you won't interrupt him as long as he stays at his work?

[Catwoman]

Am I the only one who opened this thread and was incredibly relieved to hear that Kelly caught her 10yo ds DOING MATH at 1:30am? I was worried that it was going to be something bad!

[Χά�ων]

Am I the only one who opened this thread and was incredibly relieved to hear that Kelly caught her 10yo ds DOING MATH at 1:30am? I was worried that it was going to be something bad!

 

 

Nope.

[SquirrellyMama]

Am I the only one who opened this thread and was incredibly relieved to hear that Kelly caught her 10yo ds DOING MATH at 1:30am? I was worried that it was going to be something bad!

 

I'm also glad it was just math :) I'm very tired today between a late sleeper and an early riser.

 

Kelly

[In The Great White North]

Does he get any exercise (beside the Indian yelling thing)? Real exercise, that tires him out, like swim team for an hour and a half a day?

 

That might help him sleep more (which would help you sleep more ;)

[SquirrellyMama]

Does he get any exercise (beside the Indian yelling thing)? Real exercise, that tires him out, like swim team for an hour and a half a day?

 

That might help him sleep more (which would help you sleep more ;)

 

He does get exercise. In fact last night he had an hour and half of tae kwondo. He's one of those kids that gets energized by exercise. He's crazy but I love him.

 

He told me he was doing a science experiment on sleep last night :) Oh well, at least he's doing his school work.

 

Kelly

[In The Great White North]

In fact last night he had an hour and half of tae kwondo. He's one of those kids that gets energized by exercise.

 

The "sleep experts" don't seem to like exercise right before bed (even though it works for me).

 

If he's energized by it, maybe he's just getting warmed up and hasn't really burned off any energy yet. It would be interesting to see how much of the hour and a half actually had his heart rate over 150?

[8circles]

He does get exercise. In fact last night he had an hour and half of tae kwondo. He's one of those kids that gets energized by exercise. He's crazy but I love him.

 

He told me he was doing a science experiment on sleep last night :) Oh well, at least he's doing his school work.

 

Kelly

 

My kids do 1.5 hours of TKD several times a week. It isn't nearly enough to wear them out.

[8circles]

The Coursera class on ADHD mentioned that one of the lesser known symptoms is insomnia and the accompanying daytime fatigue. I have had insomnia all my life. I tend to work best on an 'up 36 hours, sleep 14' schedule. It is very difficult to manage. Whenever I had big assignments in school or at work, I would just stay up all night to do them and then try to get sleep during the day. Even as a child, I would stay up at night and hide that I was reading or ask permission to stay up and clean my room. My poor mother never understood- she's a morning person.

 

Three of my kids have the same problem. The oldest has medication that helps, the 3 y.o. and the 9 y.o. are usually up half the night with me. (Actually two of us have been up since about 5 a.m. today after a "nap".) Sigh. I know there are folks that think you can create better habits. But we have tried, as soon as we go off the regimented schedule we are back to our nocturnal ways and while trying to establish the "better" habit we are exhausted and miserable.

 

I guess that doesn't give much of an answer. But just know, it may be something out of his control. Goodness knows if I could have controlled my sleep habits I would have when I had a job and had to drag myself out of bed every morning no matter when I'd fallen asleep the night before.

 

Try to work out some compromises. I sleep with earplugs so that DH doesn't wake me when he has to get up early.

I didn't know that about ADHD. Interesting.

[Critterfixer]

OP, does your DH get up at 4 for work? Or is he coming home from work?

If leaving for work, a compromise could be the child could get up when Dad gets up, Dad gets him a breakfast and sets him up with his math (or you could have his morning things where Dad could hand them out) and the deal only holds if he is as quiet as a mouse until the rest of the household has to be up?

[MomatHWTK]

I didn't know that about ADHD. Interesting.

 

I didn't know it before watching the class lecture- sure would have helped me a lot to know what was going on for the last 40 years. LOL!

 

 

 

To the OP, my kids who are insomniacs all manifested it very young as did I. I think our issue must be different from the usual teenage sleep cycle change. I think I've read articles about many of the hard charger/high achievers in industry and politics that indicate many of them sleep very little or odd hours. They are just on "GO" all the time.

[Mango]

As my Father in law says, "It's a good problem to have," having a child who's driven to do their school work when they're inspired no matter the hour.

 

Personally I refuse to teach math after 11:30 p.m. no matter how the child rages that they can't figure out fractions by just reading. :lol: "Go to sleep. Tomorrow morning you will magically understand that which you read right before falling asleep."

 

 

As for the sleep thingy, is there a reason why you can't just let him sleep until he wakes naturally?

One of my kids needs a solid 12 hours of sleep no matter when he falls asleep. My mother, who thinks that rising at dawn is next to Godliness and all things successful, used to really criticize me. She'd call at 10 a.m. and find he'd still be in bed. I'd say, "Meh, it's what he needs today."

 

Today she gets it. And she doesn't call until noon. :laugh:

 

Whether this is a season or status quo, I'd send him back to bed until he can "wake up on the right side of the bed" and be civil. You certainly don't need to work with that. If he can't do it before his scheduled commitments then it's time to reevaluate his commitments.

[SquirrellyMama]

 

 

As for the sleep thingy, is there a reason why you can't just let him sleep until he wakes naturally?

One of my kids needs a solid 12 hours of sleep no matter when he falls asleep. My mother, who thinks that rising at dawn is next to Godliness and all things successful, used to really criticize me. She'd call at 10 a.m. and find he'd still be in bed. I'd say, "Meh, it's what he needs today."

 

 

 

I don't wake him. I'd let him sleep until noon if that was his sleep cycle. Nope, the kids just doesn't need as much sleep as I do I guess. He doesn't have an alarm clock just his body clock.

 

I think I've read articles about many of the hard charger/high achievers in industry and politics that indicate many of them sleep very little or odd hours. They are just on "GO" all the time.

 

I have a feeling he'll do something big if he's left to his own devices :)

 

OP, does your DH get up at 4 for work? Or is he coming home from work?

 

Neither, as someone else said it is quiet at 4am. I used to get up at 3:30am before I had my last child. Now, I can't seem to do it. It is quiet and I think that is why my ds likes to be up late at night. I get it, really, I do.

 

I'm just really tired today. It may be me that is the real problem. If my sleep is interrupted for any amount of time it is almost like I didn't sleep all night.

 

Kelly

[Χά�ων]

He's one of those kids that gets energized by exercise.

That would be my DS, even with all his physical limitations. I suggest an intense cardio workout that lasts no less then an hour. Either at a gym or on a video. The video has the advantage that if he does it and 5 minutes later wants more he can push play again. The Insanity program is supposed to be good.

[Shellydon]

Any awake child at night would keep me up, so for us, I would enforce being in bed at night. The rule at my house would be no school work after dinner time, bed at between 9:00 and 10:00 and not getting up before 6:00 am. If you wake up, you must stay quietly IN YOUR BED until normal wake up time. School begins at 8:00.

[LimaMama]

Am I the only one who opened this thread and was incredibly relieved to hear that Kelly caught her 10yo ds DOING MATH at 1:30am? I was worried that it was going to be something bad!

 

Nope. I was thinking more along the lines of Internet naughties.

[prairiewindmomma]

We have the same issue as op, although after he's done with his math, he often plays minecraft. We've started shutting down the router at night.

 

My ds has always been a night owl as well. He has all of his lesson plans for the upcoming week, so he can work ahead as far as he wants to. Our rule is that he must be done with school by 3 pm (so I can grade), and he must be pleasant to be around.

 

(My son is yelling whah right now and acting like an idiot. Must be the age.)