What don't you like about Saxon Math?

[Momof3]

(Sorry, long post...)

 

Curious to hear what you have to say...

1) Why don't you like Saxon Math?

2) Anything you do appreciate abt Saxon?

3) What are you currently using and how is your current math curriculum better?

 

FYI, I'm using Saxon right now (we did K, and are doing 1), and have several issues with it myself, but I just don't have the $ to keep trying out new math systems until we find what we like... So I'm just modifying the lessons to fit our needs/goals.

 

I picked Saxon b/c I wanted something that would give plenty of teaching help (I'm not great at math, but if I have a good teacher book I'm fine), and I wanted to be sure the kids get a solid grasp of math... I have one that's verbal/logical, and another that's visual/spatial. Saxon seemed like maybe a happy medium?

 

1) I don't like the lesson flow. Seems like some topics get too much time (four lessons dedicated to the seasons, a whole lesson about the properties of a triangle...in first grade???) while others are learned - and then totally 'forgotten' until months later when it's reintroduced as though we never learned it at all!

We end up moving thru the lessons at our own pace, mostly just using the book as a guideline & 'borrowing' the activities, complicated-topic-explanations, & occasional workbook page I like.

 

2) I do like the Meeting idea - we've had lots of fun with the calendar, numbers charts, counting coins, etc. The manipulatives activities have been lots of fun, too.

 

So...what do you think? :)

[edeemarie]

 

1) Why don't you like Saxon Math?

 

Please keep in mind that what I have to say is about Saxon 5/4 and up and my understanding is the lower grades are different from 5/4 and up. That being said, Saxon was an overkill for us. There were too many problems and too much review. I also found out through Saxon that my kids learn better with a mastery program instead of spiral. I don't feel there is enough focus on mental math in Saxon either, just a lot of fact memorization.

 

2) Anything you do appreciate abt Saxon?

 

I can see how all of the review could be very helpful to some kids, but mine just didn't need that. I am sure there are a lot of kids that learn better with spiral and for those kids Saxon would probably work well.

 

3) What are you currently using and how is your current math curriculum better?

 

We are happily using Math Mammoth (the Blue series). Since ds4 loves math so much we are also using Miquon and supplementing with videos from Education Unboxed.

 

 

[Mommy22alyns]

Saxon 1 was a horrible failure here. The scripting makes me want to poke my eyes out. Rebecca was beyond a lot of it and it was hard to place her. On top of that, she's using CLE now (much better!) and is not quite done with 400. I gave her the Saxon math middle grades placement test and she placed into 7/6. :confused1: That says to me that CLE is pretty darn rigorous, as Saxon has a good reputation. The upper grades also look very dense with little space between the problems, which caused Rebecca to completely miss seeing a problem or two.

 

We're happily using CLE. It's thorough, very easy to implement, and rigorous. No math fights or tears, and she's actually good at it!

[Clarkd]

I don't like the meeting. I like the upper grade Saxon but we are waiting to use Saxon after gr 3 level.

[Murrayshire]

We don't use the meeting books and I tweak what we do in our morning meetings. It is overkill to me and bores my ds. Check out our School Room on our blog where I have a pic of our morning meeting. It's hands on just how my ds likes it! I just started using Math Mammoth 1 with Saxon 2 and I'm thinking we may try switching to CLE for second grade or stick with MM. Both of my dd's use Saxon too and they are annoyed by it. My oldest using 8/7 says she rather master a topic before moving on instead of bouncing all over the place. She uses Khan Academy and Alcumus to add more mastery to Saxon. My dd using 5/4 just hates all the problems and I'm thinking of using MM with her when she completes Saxon. She doesn't like the incremental math. It is so hard for me to figure out what to use for math but I'm beginning to think that my kids need more mastery based math BUT they do need review....just not the Saxon type review. I've ordered Life of Fred math books for all of them.....I thought this may be fun to start when they complete Saxon..... Let's just say we are looking for different avenues in math!

[Crimson Wife]

Seems like every time I go to our virtual charter's lending library I look over Saxon and I even had Saxon 1 checked out for a year, where it gathered dust on my shelf.

 

What I don't like about Saxon:

 

(1) Extreme "spiral" format. I don't mind something like Horizons but Saxon is just too over-the-top spiral.

(2) Complete lack of visual appeal.

(3) The need to copy over problems onto separate notebook paper rather than working in a consumable workbook. My kids have difficulty with the physical act of writing and I try to minimize the amount of writing they need to do.

(4) Too much of a procedural approach and not enough emphasis on why the algorithms work.

 

My oldest used Right Start B-C then Singapore 3A-5A supplemented with Math Mammoth "blue", and Singapore 7A-B supplemented with Horizons Pre-Algebra.

 

My DS used MEP Reception and most of 1A, then Singapore 1A-2B supplemented with Right Start B & the first part of C, then Singapore 3A-3B with Beast Academy 3A-3B.

[Murrayshire]

Seems like every time I go to our virtual charter's lending library I look over Saxon and I even had Saxon 1 checked out for a year, where it gathered dust on my shelf.

 

What I don't like about Saxon:

 

(1) Extreme "spiral" format. I don't mind something like Horizons but Saxon is just too over-the-top spiral.

(2) Complete lack of visual appeal.

(3) The need to copy over problems onto separate notebook paper rather than working in a consumable workbook. My kids have difficulty with the physical act of writing and I try to minimize the amount of writing they need to do.

(4) Too much of a procedural approach and not enough emphasis on why the algorithms work.

 

My oldest used Right Start B-C then Singapore 3A-5A supplemented with Math Mammoth "blue", and Singapore 7A-B supplemented with Horizons Pre-Algebra.

 

My DS used MEP Reception and most of 1A, then Singapore 1A-2B supplemented with Right Start B & the first part of C, then Singapore 3A-3B with Beast Academy 3A-3B.

#1 and #3 are a big factor for my dd's.......

[EKS]

What I liked about Saxon: It's thorough. It has a lot of review. It's gentle. It has fact practice built in.

 

What I didn't like about Saxon: The review is mind numbing. It encourages a procedural approach to math. Both of my children tended to turn off their brains while using it. It is uninspired and tedious.

 

What I preferred for elementary math: Singapore. It doesn't encourage kids to turn off their brains.

[jennynd]

It is sooooooooooooo boring. I was about to fall in sleep just flip through the pages. It seems like the same thing day after day..

[LucyStoner]

Echoing Crimson. It has a very dull, full page. I am all for plain but the Saxon pages aren't just plain, they lack sufficient white space to be easily readable with all black letters. I am not a fan of a deep spiral approach and I don't think it gets too much into the why. It's arithmetic without a lot of mathematical thinking. I have 5/4, 6/5 and 7/6 in my house, checked out from the library. I use some of the problems when I put together the problem set for the week. Also, like Crimson we have used Beast Academy, Singapore and others. I've never used MEP with my older son, but MEP reception is what we plan for our younger son. We've started very slowly with him. The price is right and I enjoy the approach. My older son is starting AOPS Pre-A soon. We'd planned to wait for summer but now that the book is in the house, he is reading it and working out problems on his own.

[mschickie]

I don't like the meeting. I like the upper grade Saxon but we are waiting to use Saxon after gr 3 level.

 

 

I did not like the look of Saxon grades 1-3 so I did not use that. We used Horizons instead. For 4th grade we switched to Saxon and dd placed in 65. I love the program for middle and high school.

[boscopup]

My son used Saxon K and 1st in private school (at grade level).

 

1) The worksheets sent home each night drove ME nuts. They were almost exactly the same, day after day after day. Then they'd have a facts sheet to do, yet their homework would still have a problem like, "Color 6 of the blocks red. How many blocks are not colored?" Why does that need to still be reviewed? It should have been mastered long before they started the fact sheet. I've looked at the upper grades, as many say they are much better than the lower grades, but I still could not use it for my son (and it would drive me nuts too). They will teach a concept, give a few problems on it, then not touch it for a while possibly. It's really pretty strange. MY brain is the type where you teach me something, let me practice it until I master it, then teach me the next thing. Review it occasionally. My oldest son works the same way, and so far my middle son seems to be fine with that method also. Moving ahead with a facts sheet when the above coloring problem is still not mastered is moving on without laying a foundation.

 

Also, looking at the upper levels, it wasn't very inspiring or difficult looking. Comparing the word problems to what we do in Singapore... no contest. I think my son would mentally check out if he used Saxon. And like a previous poster, when my son was early in Singapore 4B, I looked at the Saxon placement test and saw that he would place in Saxon 7/6 at that point very easily, and I think he would be completely bored doing 7/6 because the problems just weren't hard at all (compared to Singapore 4B).

 

2) I do like the teaching of place value in the morning meeting. My oldest had rock solid place value when he came home from school, and I used a similar method to teach my middle son place value - a hundreds chart, straws, and coins. My oldest also had a good grasp of money usage because of that morning meeting. I think some parts of the morning meeting are overkill. My son didn't need to go over the weather every single day. That isn't a hard concept? I could see that getting really tedious in a homeschooling situation.

 

3) When I first brought DS home from school, we used Math Mammoth. My son liked it a lot better than Saxon and found it more interesting, plus it moved faster, even comparing grade 1 to grade 1. It was also easy to accelerate to where he really needed to be. Once we got through long division in MM4B, I switched us to Singapore 4A, which had a better presentation, less incremental teaching, and less problems. That's what my son needed. MM worked fine, but we were having to skip a lot. We don't need to skip much in Singapore, and he likes the colorful textbook and all the whitespace in the workbook. I also like that Singapore starts to get them writing on separate paper from a textbook on occasion - there are "Practice" sections at the end of most units that are designed that way. Now I feel like my son will be fine working prealgebra from a textbook next year. My younger kids are using Singapore from the start. DS2 is going to be finishing up 1B soon, and DS3 will start Essential Math K this summer.

[wapiti]

My dd used 6/5 briefly just before I pulled her out of school. I do not care for the organization - the table of contents made me dizzy just looking at it. It would be difficult to accelerate through or go back and pick out individual topics for targeted practice. When I think of Saxon, "drudgery" comes mind; I have also seen it called joyless. Also, it has a reputation for leaning more toward plug-and-chug, procedural math with less developed instruction on concepts.

 

Eta, while Saxon may fit a certain niche student due to the organization and review, I would be wary of thinking that it will fit any student. It is not a one-size-fits-all program - there isn't one - and Saxon may be particularly difficult to tweak to different needs (unlike, say, the very flexible MM, which is what my dd used when I brought her home).

 

From what I have read on the boards here, Saxon seems to encourage what I call a "black box" approach of parental thinking about math programs, i.e., interpreting a student's performance based on percentages of mixed-topic questions rather than a student's actual understanding of specific topics.

[kiana]

Booo-ring. Really, I'd rather watch paint dry than do Saxon.

 

Strongly encourages a procedural approach, where algorithms are learned by relentless practice rather than by teaching the concepts beneath. The disadvantage to this is that the procedural approach fades more quickly with lack of use.

 

That being said, the incremental problem sets are excellent for students who need the repeated application. Some students also DO NOT DO WELL with a conceptual approach, and the procedural approach will give them enough fluency to be able to pass exams. Finally, some students are naturally gifted at intuiting the concepts from the procedures, and those students will do fine -- but frankly, they would do fine with almost any curriculum.

[*Michelle*]

Finally, some students are naturally gifted at intuiting the concepts from the procedures, and those students will do fine -- but frankly, they would do fine with almost any curriculum.

 

This is one of the reasons that I keep settling back at Saxon. We've got four kids. I think that those who are more mathy will do great with Saxon plus supplements. Those who are not will need Saxon for the review. It just seems more logical to me to buy a basic program that all of them can use and then sprinkle in work that is targeted for each child. Having two or three or four different program philosophies going would confuse me.

[Walking-Iris]

 

 

Curious to hear what you have to say...

1) Why don't you like Saxon Math?

2) Anything you do appreciate abt Saxon?

3) What are you currently using and how is your current math curriculum better?

 

 

 

I don't use Saxon in the early grades. And I don't plan on it. This is our first year using Saxon 5/4. What I don't like about it is the lesson text. The way it it is written is pretty uninspired and my ds has no desire to read about math or to hear anyone read about math in the way Saxon is written. I usually just skim the next day's lesson and then put it into my own words. That helps. (We do read books from the LivingMath website and that kind of math reading is totally different.) I do however show him where to find an answer to his questions in the text. That has been the main plus of using Saxon. He's learning how to organize his materials and take responsibility for his work and use a textbook to study and find help (looking up a term in the glossary for example).

 

What I also like about Saxon is that my ds can do it independently. I don't have to sit with him through every problem. I disagree about the procedural. Maybe it's because going through all of Miquon gave him a strong conceptual base, but we have found some very subtle conceptual strengths in Saxon. Maybe this is just perspective since I teach from that viewpoint whatever the math curriculum we use.

 

The facts sheets would be tedious for a kid who knows his facts well, and they wouldn't be appropriate imo for a kid who didn't know them. My ds does them because he thinks it's fun to try to beat his time. If a kid didn't like them and didn't like the "game" of being timed I wouldn't ever do that sort of activity. I ask him if he wants one, sometimes he says no. But then again he has facts down solid through working with Miquon. I think he's nuts for liking a timed math facts test. :)

 

We really like the mental math activity at the beginning. He has learned some new strategies though doing those problems.

 

Saxon has helped him go deeper in topics (multiplication and division) and introduced things he hadn't covered very well or at all in Miquon...rates, percents, decimals. We like the incremental/spiral approach because my ds likes to see things again and again. He loses interest (in all subjects) if too much time passes between topics.

 

I do however supplement it. I use hands on materials like c-rods etc and we recently started using a Montessori bead bar checkerboard. I read from LivingMath booklists and plan on using some Key To books with him. I also wanted to work with Hands On Equations in the near future.

 

If Saxon was our *only* math activity--yes i would want to dig my eyes out. But we do other things that the textbook style of Saxon doesn't really seem to bother us.

 

My opinion may change if we keep using Saxon, but so far so good.

[Dory]

I grew up on Saxon math as did my younger three siblings. It's horrifically boring. I realize math is often going to be a little boring no matter what you do, but Saxon is very, very boring. It's spiral approach made it difficult for me to connect the dots on how concepts in math connected to each other. I often found their explanation of the material to be lacking at best and often confusing. After watching everyone in our family learn to avoid math, including my very mathy little brothers, I wasn't going to use that stuff on my kids.

It's one good thing that I would say about it, it had LOTS of review.

 

We tried Singapore math for awhile and while I thought it was good, it wasn't a good fit for my boys. Right now we are using Math Mammoth. It has enough review to make sure the concepts are firmly in their minds. Interesting enough that they don't hate it, and yet plain enough that it isn't distracting for my oldest. It's a great fit. We still have our bad days, but it has less to do with the material we are using now and more to do with their individual temperaments and learning struggles.

[boscopup]

This is one of the reasons that I keep settling back at Saxon. We've got four kids. I think that those who are more mathy will do great with Saxon plus supplements. Those who are not will need Saxon for the review. It just seems more logical to me to buy a basic program that all of them can use and then sprinkle in work that is targeted for each child. Having two or three or four different program philosophies going would confuse me.

 

 

My son that used Saxon and was bored to tears is very mathy. It was a horrible fit for him. I think most mathy kids can learn from it, but they may grow to hate math, as he was starting to do.

 

I agree with picking ONE program that works for multiple learning styles, but I also think that most programs can be made to work with multiple learning styles. My oldest and middle kids are VERY different in learning style. One doesn't need math manipulatives at all and is a very abstract thinker, and the other is VSL. Both are using Singapore quite happily. I'm sure I'd have the same results with some other programs as well. I change my teaching to fit the student, but the program itself works for both kids. And I like that I don't have to add supplements for my mathy kids. Frankly, I can't imagine doing Saxon (which has LONG lessons) and then adding supplements on top of that to beef it up for mathy kids. Why not just use a program that is sufficiently challenging in the first place? Then you don't have to spend so much time on math. It's much more efficient to pick one program that works for teacher/student than to use a poor fit and then supplement, imo. I know some people use 3+ math programs with their mathy kids. I don't. I tried it, and it didn't really do anything except leave me spinning, and it didn't slow the kid down at all either. So now I just go through one program and call it good (ok, they do Life of Fred for fun, but if we dropped it, they wouldn't be lacking in their math education ;) ).

 

I'd be ok with using different math programs for different kids, but so far I haven't had to do that, and I don't expect to need to.

[Karen in CO]

Saxon 5/4 was the best thing in the world for for my older dd. We started it in mid-third grade after many false starts and failures that left her with some serious holes in her math knowledge. It is thorough and did an excellent job of turning my confused, math-hater back into the math whizz she was when she was younger. Incidentally, her best friend, who had not switched maths as much as us but ended up hating math in third grade too, had the same results. We did Saxon 5/4, part of 6/5 and part of 7/6 before switching to AoPS pre-algebra then coasting the rest of 5th grade. She is currently in the top of her math class at school.

 

I tried Saxon with my younger dd. It was a failure for us. I think I just might stink at teaching lower-level maths. I don't have the patience to teach it properly. If I were better at teaching lower maths, I could probably use any program or no program and get great results.

[AK_Mom4]

I don't like the meeting. I like the upper grade Saxon but we are waiting to use Saxon after gr 3 level.

 

This Exactly. Though to be honest, I do not like any of the early elementary math curriculums. I looked over pretty much all of them for DD when she was little and was not pleased. I prefer grades K-3 to be mostly manipulatives. I do like Kitchen Table Math though.

 

For the upper elementary and high school age, Saxon Totally Rocks! Between DS17 and DD11, we have used 6/5, 8/7 Algebra 1/2, Algebra 1 and Saxon Geometry. The kids and I both like that all the teaching is in the book for the student. Personally, I love the little lessons numbers next to each problem so that I can quickly find a hint when DD needs help. I also like the fact that older problems keep coming up again and again in the lessons set - this really reinforces the idea that you can't just learn-and-forget-it in math.

[texasmama]

When I first began homeschooling, I looked at a lower level Saxon math book. I opened it at a used bookstore, looked briefly and slammed it shut. If I hated the look of it, I didn't want to try to teach it to my kids. My kids are really pretty mathy, in spite of their maternal genes, so they prefer Singapore. I prefer Singapore. Singapore has taught me what programs like Saxon failed to teach me in my own math education - the concepts rather than just rote memorization of the algorithm. I do think that Saxon is extremely thorough with memorization of facts. It is what my private-schooled oldest child used in the lower grades.

[...................]

My son did pretty well with Saxon 2, and 3. He did great with 5/4, although he hated it. Then came 6/5. We finished the whole book but it was a pretty miserable experience. The few concepts that were more difficult received little attention and yet east simple concepts were brought up over and over. Meanwhile the exhorbitant amount of daily review, lack of visual appeal and lack of critical thinking just made this program such a drain.

 

I know my son's computation is high (as that's what Saxon aims for) but he and I both dreaded the long tedious lessons, and his critical thinking is lacking. It's hard to supplement math when math already takes an hour and a half every day.

 

I don't know what the antidote is and I don't know if I'll regret leaving Saxon later, but I do know that I think Saxon is very discouraging and boring way to teach math.

 

 

[...................]

PS in the lower level I used the workbooks and taught the concepts myself. I never used the scripted lessons. For calendar work we used a big fun laminated school calendar and just made that part of our day including my dd. they loved putting the numbers and weather cards on!! And changing the months. And it was always just cute and funny when we for behind. No biggie.

[Five More Minutes]

I used Saxon K as a pre-school program, and enjoyed it.

 

Then we hit Saxon 1. Hoo, boy. I gave it a good try for about 3-4 months, but it was killing my dd's interest in math. Her little body would slump whenever I brought the books out. For one thing, the pages were repetitive, full, and rather boring. For another thing, the emphasis was on procedures and memory, rather than on concepts. Another thing: the lessons were LONG. And finally, I couldn't easily accelerate it because of its intense spiral format.

 

We switched to Singapore, although I kept some of the morning meeting routine because of its value in teaching dates and place value. She has gone from dreading math to deciding (at least this week) that she wants to be a math teacher when she grows up. :001_smile:

[happypamama]

1) Why don't you like Saxon Math

I'm using Saxon with an upper elementary student, so my experience might be a bit different from the elementary. What do I not like? It's a lot of problems. She rarely needs to do all 30 problems, and it's a pain for me to have to pick out the ones I do want her to do. I can't just say "do the odd problems today, and tomorrow, we'll do the evens for the next lesson," because the new material from that lesson might be all in the even problems that day. I wish it was set up in a way that made it easier to assign just half of the problems.

 

I think it would bore my other kid to tears. Sometimes Singapore has too many practice problems for him. :)

 

2) Anything you do appreciate abt Saxon

 

There's a lot I do like about it.

 

-It's not flashy or cutesy. My 11yo dislikes anything cutesy. She doesn't appreciate books that try to be funny. She appreciates Saxon's subtle humor, as it often has references to works of literature (like "Peter, Edmund, Susan, and Lucy had blah blah blah"); she likes when she gets the references. Also, no pictures to be distracting, no attempts to "make it fun."

 

-The explanations are actually ones that DD can follow herself; I do usually go over the lesson with her and do practice problems if necessary, but occasionally, I'll hand her the book and have her see if she understands it, and she usually can. I think it would be good for a parent who is not terribly comfortable in math, because things are so well spelled out. I like that it taught her the formulas for figuring out, say, area of a triangle, but it also showed her *why* the formula works.

 

-We like the spiral and incremental approach. Little bits to chew on at a time -- this works well for DD. With new concepts, it's nice that she can do a couple of problems related to the new ideas, and then she can see them again in the next several days. Plus, if she hates a concept, at least we won't be doing several weeks in a row related to that concept; there will be something new, and probably more interesting, in the next day or so. Keeps it from being boring. :)

 

-Lots of explanation of following steps, which helps this child, who tends to need some organizational help. Not as much emphasis on mental math (like Singapore, which works well for another of my children).

 

-Great confidence booster -- in every problem set, there are guaranteed to be ones she can do very easily.

 

-Frequent tests, so if she truly doesn't get a concept, it will show up quickly.

 

-I like that it tells you what lesson each problem is from, so if DD doesn't remember how to do a problem, she can try looking up the original lesson before she asks me. I don't necessarily want her to be completely independent from me, but I do appreciate when she can solve things on her own, without always having to ask me.

 

3) What are you currently using and how is your current math curriculum better?

We've been through 5/4 and 6/5 with our fifth grader and are currently almost finished with 7/6, and her understanding of things seems to be very solid. We are planning to move on to Algebra 1/2 next year (spreading it over more than one year and supplementing with other practice worksheets and word problems).

[Ellie]

The primary levels of Saxon had not been written when I was still homeschooling. When I reviewed them for possible use in a little one-room school where I taught, I didn't care for them--way too many things going on. However, I do like Saxon from Math 54 and up. It is not spiral; it is incremental, and it really makes a great deal of sense to me. If I were homeschooling again, Saxon would be at the top of my list for math (but only for 54 and up).

[stayathomelibrarian]

I have a 1st grader using Saxon math that hasn't complained one bit. I used Saxon in my private schooling from 5th grade on, so naturally I chose it. It puts me to sleep. I loathe the meeting. I go straight to "The Lesson". Sometimes I squeeze in 2 lessons in a day, but we've still only finished the 1st semester. I'm not switching as long as it's working. Also, I am cheap. I don't think I'll be using it next year. I've just today purchased Life of Fred Apples. She loves to read and breezes through books, so I think it'll be a nice supplement. If she loves it, I can abandon 1st grade math. It'll take me another 6 months to finish all the lessons. We use extra math also, and math apps. I'm trying not to sweat it in just the 1st grade level, but next year, I'm thinking of switching to the CLE program before going back to Saxon in the higher levels.

[Erin]

1) Why don't you like Saxon Math?

2) Anything you do appreciate abt Saxon?

3) What are you currently using and how is your current math curriculum better?

 

 

1. I don't like that it's black and white and straight forward. There's not a whole lot of "fun" in it.

(I've used K-Algebra I but I haven't done a lot of work with the lower grades for several years. So, if there've been significant changes I'm speaking to the versions that were around 10 and 15 years ago.)

 

2. I appreciate far more than I dislike.

As a public school teacher I've used a lot of math curricula over the years and Saxon is by far my favorite for the simple fact that it consistently seems to get the best results for most kids. Our local school district currently uses it for remediation and I've made the point that if it's effective for remediation, imagine what it could do for the general populace...

I really dislike most text's drill-and-kill approach, and Saxon keeps it changing. Some complain about the lack of practice for new concepts, but in my observation, the vast majority of kids simply don't need that much "practice" at a single sitting.

In fact, DS, when making his case for pulling him back out of PS, started out with the fact that "Mom, Saxon isn't fun, but I know it makes me understand math a LOT better." lol

 

3. We're currently using Saxon 8/7 and planning to move to Algebra next year.

[Lugrita]

I agree with so much of what the previous posters dislike about Saxon. I will add that, in my experience, it does not teach mathematical thinking. It teaches the student how to do procedures, in its random, jumping-around sort of way, but it doesn't teach them *why*. Big difference.

 

I have four kids (K/1, 3rd, 6th, and 8th), some who are very mathy and some who are more creative. All four do fairly well with almost any math program, and all four dislike Saxon...some to a very great degree. When we recently dumped Saxon completely, my kids were in Saxon 1, 5/4, 7/6, and Algebra 1. My 6th grader was very eloquent in his well-worded explanation of spiral vs. mastery, and he articulated well why Saxon drives him batty. I switched his math curriculum and he is much happier! (And I know that Saxon is considered to be incremental and not spiral, but my son's points resonated well regardless.)

 

My final issue with Saxon is that we found the jumping around and utter lack of mastery to be a horribly-lacking preparation for algebra. Changing curriculum fixed everything, and I only wish that I had dumped Saxon sooner.

 

We have now switched to Singapore and Life of Fred (Singapore 1 exclusively for my youngest, Singapore/LOF together for my middle two, and LOF Algebra for my oldest), and my kids are happy and flourishing in math. :) I used Singapore with my oldest two kids for our first 3 years of homeschooling, and I've always loved it best so I wish that I'd never left it...but hindsight is 20/20!

 

I didn't hate Saxon when we were using it, though I didn't particularly enjoy the 1-3 levels. My main issue with Saxon is that I see where it leads, and I don't care to continue down a road to nowhere when there are better options for us.

[Lugrita]

I used Saxon K as a pre-school program, and enjoyed it.

 

Then we hit Saxon 1. Hoo, boy. I gave it a good try for about 3-4 months, but it was killing my dd's interest in math. Her little body would slump whenever I brought the books out. For one thing, the pages were repetitive, full, and rather boring. For another thing, the emphasis was on procedures and memory, rather than on concepts. Another thing: the lessons were LONG. And finally, I couldn't easily accelerate it because of its intense spiral format.

 

We switched to Singapore, although I kept some of the morning meeting routine because of its value in teaching dates and place value. She has gone from dreading math to deciding (at least this week) that she wants to be a math teacher when she grows up. :001_smile:

 

 

That's too funny...we must have been teaching the same kindergartener! I was using Saxon Phonics 1 for the first half of this year in addition to Saxon Math 1, so my youngest dd's little body would slump dramatically twice every day. I realized that I needed to make some changes, because otherwise my eager little girl would be in danger of developing a hatred of school at the tender age of 5. Curriculum changes saved the day! I don't get any slumping with Singapore or Explode the Code! :)