S/O - How dirty is this house to you?

[mommaduck]

Maybe the landlord didn't know it was a problem. I'm sure he would have rather fixed the toilet rather than have the house condemened.

 

You would be surprised. Some will just do enough that it will look like they did something, but it becomes a chronic issue. Some landlords have no problem thinking that you should have to go up to a week without a toilet every month or should just have suck it up and deal with a gas leak or don't care that the house is infested or there is a rodent of large size living in the wall attempting to chew through.

[LucyStoner]

I didn't read the article. But I didn't need to read it to know what sort of filth was going on up in that house. Bluntly, I think anyone who thinks that is no issue has "I hate ANYTHING ever done by ANY CPS ANYWHERE" blinders on. Either that, or they live like that themselves and are really in need of a wake up call.

 

There is garbage piled in cabinets. There is no evidence of any sanitation efforts at all- you can't wash surfaces that are long covered. I started to imagine the smells and again, till after I voted, I didn't know for sure it was fecal matter but I did suspect as much because I have seen that sort of thing in homes before. The floors were not only filthy in the bathroom. If the bathroom is that messy HOW do you suppose the kids were doing for personal hygiene and health? You don't learn to wash yourself when you live like that. I absolutely think that CPS involvement is warranted- when you neglect a home that much, it impacts your kids. Whoever keeps house like that needs help if they have kids- help learning to plug into life again and care. I don't think that it needs to be permanent removal. A parent should have a chance to get their act in order.

 

In some cases, I know such intervention can lead to improvement. I have seen it work with a family I know. Previously the house had dog feces, dog blood and food caked to surfaces and now while there is clutter, there is base level of cleanliness, more hygenie for the kids and parents and all seem much happier. I feel for all involved. That sort of nasty usually comes from depression and a sense of helplessness.

 

I grew up in utter housekeeping chaos and while it was not quite this bad, it was bad. We never had CPS involved but it was a huge, huge issue for me. It is certainly neglect and can rise to the level of abuse. I learned to keep house on my own, self taught once I left home. I would never in a million years expose my kids to anything coming close to what I knew.

 

Please don't think I am saying messy equals this. This is not messy. This is not clutter. This is not bad housekeeping skills or an quirky unconventional way of living. This is filth. I know plenty of people with hugely messy homes who are great parents but the mess is contained and it is not filth. It's full closets and stuff everywhere, not "we don't know where we might find a clean plate to eat off of" type mess.

[Jean in Newcastle]

The article says the mom was clearly drunk. I'm wondering with young children in the house, is that an issue for CPS as well? Or can you be drunk in your own home as long as you're not passed out?

[LucyStoner]

The article says the mom was clearly drunk. I'm wondering with young children in the house, is that an issue for CPS as well? Or can you be drunk in your own home as long as you're not passed out?

 

I think it depends on frequency and supervision and context. Drinking heavily like that and not creating a safe environment for your kids reflects a much larger issue than mom having too many glasses of champagne on New Year's Eve. And if you are drunk in that level of chaos and filth, it is all the most likely that your toddler is going to to get into something dangerous.

 

ETA: I have now read the article. I think a key detail here also is that the police were responding to a domestic dispute. If a police officer showed up and found kids walking in feces while their drunk mother and father were fighting and did nothing, they would be in dereliction of duty even if the house wasn't quite this bad. Also of note is the neighbors stated the house was on their radar due to frequent short visits at night. It wouldn't blow me over if there is drug selling involved and there are only so many explanations for such visits. The house seems set up for the parents to drink and watch TV (look at the bedroom pic) and one of the kids had no bed whatsoever.

[gardenmom5]

Maybe the landlord didn't know it was a problem. I'm sure he would have rather fixed the toilet rather than have the house condemened.

I love that there are people like you who want to give the benefit of the doubt. Really, the world needs more good-hearted people. the weakness in that attitude is there are people to whom giving the benefit of the doubt endangers others.

 

we have a slumlord house rental on our street. - I lived here before the creep bought the place and it was liveable. (and the opposite end are million dollar homes, go figure). I knew one of the renters, they had no idea what they were getting into - but they DID know their rights. the guy NEVER fixed anything - he only saw the house as a cash cow to support his lifestyle elsewhere. my acquaintence fixed things to make things liveable and deducted it from their rent as allowed by law. the guy was constantly on their case for that. He didn't want to pay to fix things, he advertised the house as having a woodstove - yet the chimney was blocked and it was a firehazard. He rents to section eight. immigrants who barely speak english. and we had druggies and domestic violence. iow: people who don't complain to authorities. our friends basically had to move - and while that house had some problems, it was livable, and wasn't anything like the slumlord's house.

[Aelwydd]

I was curious what everyone's reactions would be because I'm kind of a neat freak, and I know that my reaction to a house like that is not necessarily in line with the norm. I really like clean, clear surfaces, and I feel like my house is a mess when there are five things on the coffee table, and the mail is lying on the counter. Still, I'm surprised that so many of you found that house so awful, even not taking the bathroom into account. I absolutely think the kids needed to be removed with the bathroom as it is, but without the bathroom "issue" there, I would have expected CPS to just follow the family and require cleaning and management of safety issues (like the chemicals).

 

Seeing that house makes me hyperventilate, but I didn't know how others would feel!

 

I didn't read the article, I just viewed four or five of the pictures, which was enough. That house is disgusting. I voted that maybe CPS should be involved (because I don't have all the information, including any mitigating factors).

 

But, I never saw the picture of the bathroom, and I still feel that the house is just extremely dirty. Being somewhere like that would stress me out.

[caitlinsmom]

I have known a couple people who have kept houses like this. I used to babysit for one such family. It was appalling. It would take me hours just to clean their kitchen, which I did because I couldn't stand the smell. The house was a reflection of MANY MANY harmful issues that were going on in the family. Based on the experiences I had growing up with the families that lived this way I am glad CPS was called. The environment is clearly not healthy and way beyond needing a weekend scrub down.

 

Found the bathroom pics. Oh there are no words and I can not imagine living in that house. :ack2:

[Harriet Vane]

Agree. If the tenants didn't report the problem, then there's no way the landlord would have known about it. Landlords aren't allowed to just randomly wander into the rented home just to check on things. It is an invasion of privacy, and the tenants have to agree to let the landlord in. I'm a landlord, and I haven't been in our rental property in over five years. We tried to about a year ago, but ended up only walking around the exterior because the tenants wouldn't let us in... and they were within their rights. I could have the same situation with the nasty bathroom in our rental right now, and I wouldn't know it.

 

 

Landlords do have the right to inspect property as long as they give reasonable notice to the tenant. In other words, as long as you tell them ahead of time that you are coming, you do have the right to see your own property. The rights of the landlord to maintain the property are balanced with the rights of the tenants to privacy.

 

I would be quite concerned about the condition of a property I had not laid eyes on in five years.

[Jean in Newcastle]

It is my understanding that we can send in an inspector once a year at a mutually agreed upon time, which we have done. But let's say the owner of the house in the pictures wanted to do an inspection, and they agreed upon a time two weeks hence. Even with as nasty as that house was, they could have cleaned it up well enough before the inspection. Still no one would have known that children were living in squalor, least of all the landlord.

 

 

True but in my experience as a landlord, the renter who let their 6 chow dogs use the living room as a bathroom could not have covered that up no matter how much they had cleaned it up (we had to rip out even the subfloor before we could rent it again) and the renters who had the carpet covered with urine, feces, vomit and trash could not have covered up the smell very easily (again we had to rip out the subfloor).

[Lily_Grace]

Please tell me I'm not the only one who has read this entire thread. I feel like I need to bleach my brain now.

 

I have to share these pictures. This first picture is from several years ago when we only had 2 children (and way too many toys in one room). It was Christmas/birthday season (they both have birthdays within 2 weeks of Christmas) so that also added to the mess. This was after a day of the kids playing in the room. I took the picture because I was so horrified at the mess.

 

 

This was after about 20 minutes of me cleaning it:

 

 

My house never gets that messy anymore because I have decluttered and have children that can do chores. But these are my version of "filthy."

 

 

I had a friend who would stress out because her house looked like your top picture many, may times and mine was spotless. It took a while of convincing her that "different seasons, different houses" is very true. I had one 9yo. She had a 1yo and a 3yo. Of course my house was going to be much cleaner! At my kid's age, he was able to pick up better (and his toys were smaller). Now I have a 3yo and I'm happy with my house if it's within the "15 minutes to clean" range.

[Sisyphus]

I haven't read any articles, or looked at any bathrooms. From reading comments, I guess the tracks through the house are...uh...yuck. Don't wanna think on that.

 

Going by what you said, photos only, no bathroom, no comment knowledge- no, I can't see the house as worthy of taking kids away. It's messy, but...not unsafe. Messy, or even dirty, isn't unloving. Taking kids in that situation seems far, far worse than teaching some young couple to clean house.

 

I skimmed comments and saw drugs, etc, so yeah, take the kids. But those photos alone? No.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Agree. If the tenants didn't report the problem, then there's no way the landlord would have known about it. Landlords aren't allowed to just randomly wander into the rented home just to check on things. It is an invasion of privacy, and the tenants have to agree to let the landlord in. I'm a landlord, and I haven't been in our rental property in over five years. We tried to about a year ago, but ended up only walking around the exterior because the tenants wouldn't let us in... and they were within their rights. I could have the same situation with the nasty bathroom in our rental right now, and I wouldn't know it.

 

 

Maybe this varies from state to state, but I have heard of some landlords who put it in the lease that they will inspect property inside and out every few months or so if I am not mistaken. I know if I was a landlord that I would want to do that just to make sure there were no issues with plumbing, heating, etc.

[BlueTaelon]

I didn't read the article but based on the pictures I'd say who ever the caregiver is needs help cleaning the mess up, assuming they are not on drugs or something. It looks like its gotten to the point where its just over whelming and they need a hand to get things back in order. I've had a friend who's house ended up like that and CPS came and gave them a week to clean it up. We all pitched in and helped the mom out and all was fine.

[BlueTaelon]

Agree. If the tenants didn't report the problem, then there's no way the landlord would have known about it. Landlords aren't allowed to just randomly wander into the rented home just to check on things. It is an invasion of privacy, and the tenants have to agree to let the landlord in. I'm a landlord, and I haven't been in our rental property in over five years. We tried to about a year ago, but ended up only walking around the exterior because the tenants wouldn't let us in... and they were within their rights. I could have the same situation with the nasty bathroom in our rental right now, and I wouldn't know it.

 

 

 

Usually you just have to give 24 hours notice that you will be inspecting and if they don't like it to bad.

[arghmatey]

Level 8 nastiness.

 

Level 9 would be vertical piles of boxes or other stuff covering entire floor.

 

Level 10 would be more fecal matter and used female sanitary supplies or rat nests.

 

My house is never *spotless*, but I'd welcome a visit from CPS (with a sheriff and a warrant, anyway) at any time.

[LucyStoner]

Level 8 nastiness.

 

Level 9 would be vertical piles of boxes or other stuff covering entire floor.

 

Level 10 would be more fecal matter and used female sanitary supplies or rat nests.

 

My house is never *spotless*, but I'd welcome a visit from CPS (with a sheriff and a warrant, anyway) at any time.

 

 

Did you see the bathroom pics in the linked article? That makes it an 11. There is no tub or toilet due to all the urine and fecal matter.

[arghmatey]

 

Did you see the bathroom pics in the linked article? That makes it an 11. There is no tub or toilet due to all the urine and fecal matter.

 

 

Oh, dear, no. I guess I flipped too fast through the photos. Dare I look again?

[Pod's mum]

The article says the mom was clearly drunk. I'm wondering with young children in the house, is that an issue for CPS as well? Or can you be drunk in your own home as long as you're not passed out?

 

 

In Australia yes!

I went through this through court re other parent.

There's nothing you can do to prevent a child being in the 'care' of an intoxicated parent.

Edited February 4, 2013 by Pod's mum

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

Oh, dear, no. I guess I flipped too fast through the photos. Dare I look again?

 

 

The bathroom photos are separate and are linked in the actual article.

[LucyStoner]

 

Oh, dear, no. I guess I flipped too fast through the photos. Dare I look again?

 

I vote you spare your eyes. It ain't pretty.

[EthiopianFood]

I can't find the bathroom pictures....

[Jean in Newcastle]

I can't find the bathroom pictures....

 

Click "read the story" - the link that says "photos of the bathroom" is about halfway down the article.

[myfunnybunch]

I can't find the bathroom pictures....

 

You really don't want to see them. I wish I'd listened to my better judgement. I genuinely regret looking because I can't stop remembering that there were real children living there.

 

Cat

[EthiopianFood]

 

Click "read the story" - the link that says "photos of the bathroom" is about halfway down the article.

 

Sorry, I replied after only reading the first page!

[hsmamainva]

Ewwww.....that's a pretty bad house.

 

Clutter in the pictures is one thing, however....mattresses with no sheets or bedding?? no pillows? yuck!

 

Don't get me started on the kitchen....and I wasn't about to search for any bathroom pictures!

 

It makes me wonder what underlying issues are involved with the parents -- drug addiction, alcoholism, etc. -- that, even more than the condition of the house, would worry me and I'd want CPS involved.

 

As for my house.... the main level is always clean...always. I'm a stickler for a clean kitchen and clean bathrooms at all times.

 

Now...my daughters' bedrooms? That's another story! Both of them are terrible about keeping their rooms clean. But there's bedding on the beds (just have to walk over all the clothes on the floor)...*sigh*

 

My sons?? Different story! Go figure! My 18yo son has always been rather OCD compulsive and my 13yo son has always been a neatnik (his nickname when he was little was "Felix" as in Oscar and Felix from the Odd Couple because he couldn't stand messes!) so their rooms are usually kept clean.

[SailorMom]

Clutter and kids' toys on the floor, laundry in piles, books and school stuff laying around - that kinda stuff happens. I mean - a few days of me being sick and not nagging the kids when my DH is deployed and my house gets pretty cluttered.

But- under the clutter the surfaces are usually clean - or at least had been cleaned a few days before.

I didn't read the article or look at pictures of the bathroom, and it looks horrid to me. Makes me itch all over just thinking about it. I voted "maybe CPS should be involved" based off of those pictures. Add what people are saying about the bathroom, and yeah - I really think they should.

At least involved in getting the family out of that house and making sure it gets cleaned. The problem is, they are so short staffed that they can't really do that sort of thing, and so the only alternative is to yank the kids out. Hopefully those kids went (together) to a good foster home or a relatives home until their parents got their act together.

[TranquilMind]

Hey folks, ignore the bathroom, OK?

 

I never saw a bathroom photo in the 24. Where was it?

[TranquilMind]

Because some people are slumlords and slumlords are sometimes the only people that will rent to those already going through a hard time or are typically discriminated against.

 

Some are.

 

And then some landlords rent to people who actually trash a nice property to this level. The house looked ok underneath all the garbage, feces, etc. These people could have damaged the bathroom. I have heard stories of tenants pouring concrete down the toilet to clog it permanently, breaking handles, faucets, walls, you name it.

 

The story says that the landlord himself took these photos. A slumlord wouldn't be eager to release these photos if this typifies the condition of his rentals. So I'm fairly confident that he also has photos from prior to their tenancy to prove that they did the damage. All landlords I know take before and after photos.

[Kathryn]

 

 

Some are.

 

And then some landlords rent to people who actually trash a nice property to this level. The house looked ok underneath all the garbage, feces, etc. These people could have damaged the bathroom. I have heard stories of tenants pouring concrete down the toilet to clog it permanently, breaking handles, faucets, walls, you name it.

 

The story says that the landlord himself took these photos. A slumlord wouldn't be eager to release these photos if this typifies the condition of his rentals. So I'm fairly confident that he also has photos from prior to their tenancy to prove that they did the damage. All landlords I know take before and after photos.

 

That was my thought as well. Why would the landlord be taking photos and releasing them if this was due to his negligence?

[Χά�ων]

Sadly, I have seen worse. The family was a homeschool family because the school disctrict kept reporting them to CPS for what mom claimed was bogus reasons.

[pehp]

I did not see the bathroom or read the article. I couldn't bear to look at all the photos. It was horrible. I think that goes way beyond a little messy or dirty. Children should not have to live like that.

 

My house is not spotless, but it is very clean and pretty tidy. No comparison. I feel so sad for the people who were living like that; it seems so unhealthy and depressing.