If someone is stuck on "grade level" and testing...

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Is it possible to move them off of it?!

 

Ds's behavior therapist is really hung up on homeschool stuff. Last week he asked what the graduation requirements were! Ds is EIGHT. I'm not too worried yet.

 

This week he asks the last time i had ds tested by the school to make sure he's on grade level. Umm, I'm not concerned with what they think.

 

He's reading (more than he'll let others see), doing well at the end of MM1 (on track to be done by March), can identify continents on a globe and map, can point to most presidents when he reads the name (as a "sight" word), and can name a few, knows his ABC's in sign and a ton of signs, knows coins, adds simple money, tells time, etc.

 

I do not really care where he is academically compared to his peers. He can't be compared to his peers based on his language disability alone. He's just starting to be able to describe an object's function! That's way under third grade skills.

 

I'm wondering how long i should even keep this therapist around. He should not be concerned with ds's academic skills or level (ok, if he were in ps acting out in a 3rd grade class because he couldn't read, that would be different). He should be concerned with ds's compliance with whatever work i put in front of him, whether it's calculus or a preschool dot to dot, or a cursive review page.

 

So do i just toss therapist...again? Or attempt to "prove" that while ds may not be at ps grade level, we are working well at whatever level it is he'd be considered?

 

I'm going to talk to his previous therapist who was fine with school stuff, but couldn't handle him behaviorally, and i want your opinions too. Please. :)

[Rebecca VA]

I'd talk to the therapist and ask him why he is asking those questions. Does he have a really good reason which relates directly to your son? Or is he asking because it's just customary to get the information?

 

Once, years ago, I got offended by something a therapist said to me and almost fired her. Now, with 12 years of hindsight, I understand what she meant and wish I had followed through on her suggestion.

[Guest inoubliable]

Option C. Tell the therapist that the level your child is working at is appropriate for him and, quite frankly, not in the scope of his therapy. Why on earth would you attempt to prove level achievements to someone who has no business in having that proof??

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I guess I'd want to prove it to him because he seems like he's got *some* potential in being a great therapist for ds. Or it could just be that I'm thrilled to have a male therapist and letting more slide.

 

Honestly, ds could be working slightly higher, but i have a hard time pushing through the tantrums (*that* is part of the therapist's job!) and he's doing well. Another 100 on a math test today. He probably can read more than I'm giving him credit for.

 

For myself, i just remember that the ps had him for 4 years (2yrs special Ed preschool, k, 1st), and he was way behind when i pulled him. He learned nothing, except manipulation, when in school.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Rebecca- he does not seem to have a good reason for questioning all this. Last week he was concerned about graduation, and this week he's asking about the ps testing him.

 

 

[Rebecca VA]

Well, you should probably *still* ask politely why he is asking -- you never know what he might be thinking in the back of his mind. Plus, if you gently make an issue of it, he may drop the subject.

 

I definitely wouldn't fire someone who had the potential to be a good therapist over something like that, unless he was harping on it and becoming obnoxious.

[Guest inoubliable]

I guess I'd want to prove it to him because he seems like he's got *some* potential in being a great therapist for ds. Or it could just be that I'm thrilled to have a male therapist and letting more slide. No. Just, no. *Some* potential and the fact that he's male doesn't mean you have to spend precious moments of therapy time in satisfying his nosiness. Honestly, ds could be working slightly higher, but i have a hard time pushing through the tantrums (*that* is part of the therapist's job!) Remind the therapist of this - his job and he's doing well. Another 100 on a math test today. Way to go! He probably can read more than I'm giving him credit for. For myself, i just remember that the ps had him for 4 years (2yrs special Ed preschool, k, 1st), and he was way behind when i pulled him. He learned nothing, except manipulation, when in school.

 

Rebecca- he does not seem to have a good reason for questioning all this. Last week he was concerned about graduation, and this week he's asking about the ps testing him.

Bolding is mine. I think you already know the answer you're looking for. This therapist has no reason to ask the things he's asking, in your opinion. It has nothing to do with what he's there for. Either remind the guy of what he's supposed to be working on with your son, or find a therapist who will. I'm sorry you keep having issues with therapists. :( You don't need to lower your expectations or put up with a nosy therapist just for the sake of having a therapist, though.

[Night Elf]

I'd tell him I appreciate the work he's doing with your son but you think it's not a good idea to question your decision to homeschool. You really won't know what he's trying to do unless you ask him directly. If his answer is unsatisfactory, then you can possibly seek another therapist. Is it hard to find a new therapist? It seems to me you would have to screen future ones about homeschooling or you could find yourself in the same position again.

[PachiSusan]

I drop kicked a family therapist for similar reasons. She kept going back to the point that our family dynamic was having problems because of home education and that every issue we had was home school's fault, yet she touted how she "supported" our decision. Some people most definitely have a beef about home education but will not own it.

 

If you have asked him why he continues to ask, and you are not satisfied with the answer, then I think you need to weigh the balance of whether you are getting enough pay off to continue to deal with the same line of nosy questioning of your parenting decision.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Now the contradiction! When we discuss the downside to ps, he agrees that ds would be one of the many to fall through the cracks. Every week he's got a bad ps story. He knows that ps will throw stuff on an IEP, but never follow it, or they'll never even add relevant stuff to the IEP.

 

Here's where ds throws them all for a loop- We've had almost 10 different therapists and TSS's in the last 2 years. Every single one of them tries to get their kids to open up while playing a game. Seems logical to me, and works well with dd. but ds? He "shushes" you the whole time because you're playing a game and has no interest in talking! Yet every single person says "hey, let's play a game." Great way to get him to stop talking.

 

It is easy to get another therapist, but i have no way to screen them. I'm going to be out of therapists through this company soon.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Today, between tantrums, ds located Africa in our geography book, traced and colored the tracing, on his own and because he felt like it. What grade level is this?

[PachiSusan]

Today, between tantrums, ds located Africa in our geography book, traced and colored the tracing, on his own and because he felt like it. What grade level is this?

 

Tee hee...his own grade level. Isn't that part of the reason we all chose home education? To have our children be able to be who they are and we guide them on their schedule??

[wapiti]

Honestly, ds could be working slightly higher, but i have a hard time pushing through the tantrums (*that* is part of the therapist's job!) and he's doing well. Another 100 on a math test today. He probably can read more than I'm giving him credit for.

 

I'd be working under the assumption that general academic status is well within the purview of a behavioral therapist's overall picture of his client. If the kiddo is working below grade level, I'd say so along with any reasons why (e.g., the PS cracks or whatever other issues). I don't see a need to be defensive about it. Specifically, if the kiddo could be working at a higher level but for the tantrums, I'd talk about that too - in detail! Also, perhaps the behavioral therapist notices some issue, learning or other, that could benefit from the eyes of some other professional.

[KungFuPanda]

I'd be straight with him. He was on _______ level when he left school, and he's progressed to ________ level in the time I've had him. If you've made a year's worth of progress each year, you'er fine. If you've made MORE than a year's worth of progress, even better. If progress is insufficient due to the instruction you're giving, step it up. If progress is insufficient due to his behavioral issues, explain this to the therapist so you can both resolve to help your son meet his full potential EVEN IF his full potential is less than grade level at this time.

 

If this therapist is working for the school system, your child may qualify for other programs/therapies if he is significantly behind. However, if he can't get a straight answer from you it might be very difficult for him to help you in those areas.

[PachiSusan]

I'd be straight with him. He was on _______ level when he left school, and he's progressed to ________ level in the time I've had him. If you've made a year's worth of progress each year, you'er fine. If you've made MORE than a year's worth of progress, even better. If progress is insufficient due to the instruction you're giving, step it up. If progress is insufficient due to his behavioral issues, explain this to the therapist so you can both resolve to help your son meet his full potential EVEN IF his full potential is less than grade level at this time.

 

If this therapist is working for the school system, your child may qualify for other programs/therapies if he is significantly behind. However, if he can't get a straight answer from you it might be very difficult for him to help you in those areas.

 

Absolutely spot on advice and very straightforward and honest in it's approach.

[unsinkable]

Today, between tantrums, ds located Africa in our geography book, traced and colored the tracing, on his own and because he felt like it. What grade level is this?

 

 

Kindergarten thru early 2 nd

[Barbara H]

It is always tough to know. There are therapists and doctors who have a genuine prejudice against homeschooling and it will continue to be a problem in having a good working relationship with them. There are others who ask because they actually are curious how it works or because they are trying to get information to be helpful to your child. It is pretty typical, even for kids in school, for therapists and physicians to want to know how the particular concerns may be affecting the child academically or if there are issues that need to be worked on. I would simple express your awareness of the academic expectations for the grade and confirm your child is on track (or needs help in whatever particular areas).

[amo_mea_filiis.]

This is slightly different from op about grade level, but...

 

I just had a text convo with therapist and i think he confirmed that ds is out of his league.

 

I basically asked if he had any new ideas for compliance. Response was to set a timer and pick a consistent consequence if he doesn't comply in time. Timers + ds = massive meltdowns and anxiety. Threatening to (and following through) take toys also creates a lot of anxiety. (I'm not just refusing to try, I've btdt.)

 

I say this and get his cop out response of me being everything and us being in close quarters all day and that ds doesn't have other adults around.

 

It has not even been 2 years that ds has been home! This stuff is not new. Ds has librarian 2x per week, occupational therapist, speech therapist, mobile therapist, dd's mobile therapist.

 

 

[amo_mea_filiis.]

 

 

Kindergarten thru early 2 nd

 

 

Not something either of mine ever did. Ds was prek-1st, and dd k-5th.

 

I was just happy that ds decided to do the map thing and followed through completely and on his own. He was proud of his work and it is hanging in his bedroom. :) That is huge for him.

[HS Mom in NC]

I'd ditch the therapist. He seems to think you owe him explanations that you don't actually owe him.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I dont mind at all sharing what ds is doing. Ds did math and handwriting in front of therapist today.

 

My biggest beef i guess is that when i ask him for help (ya know, as his job) in getting ds complying a little better, he starts questioning grade level, or comments that his daughter is doing x. His daughter is second grade, same as i consider ds, so there shouldn't be a problem.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I think i will just take a therapist break for ds until spring. We seem to make the most progress when i stop questioning the simple things that are working.

[unsinkable]

 

 

Not something either of mine ever did. Ds was prek-1st, and dd k-5th.

 

I was just happy that ds decided to do the map thing and followed through completely and on his own. He was proud of his work and it is hanging in his bedroom. :) That is huge for him.

 

 

I thought you asked what grade level it was? I think that is very basic work, whether or not it is done in a school program you are familiar with.

 

You and your son can be proud of him and his work. It's not related to what level I think that work is, KWIM?

[Crimson Wife]

Unfortunately, there isn't a real good appreciation among professionals who work with SN kids about the value of HS. I was flabbergasted when our family's pediatric neurologist told us to do whatever we could to keep our DS in a HS situation because she's basically the only professional I've run into who is pro-HS.

 

It is totally unprofessional for that behavior therapist to compare your child to any other one. What his own daughter is doing is irrelevant. It's fine to talk about age norms for things in a general way (by age ___, most children will be doing ____) because that helps parents know what is and what isn't a concern. But comparing specific children is way out-of-line IMHO.

[Catwoman]

It seems pretty clear that, even if this guy is a good therapist, that you and he are not on the same page in terms of what is best for your ds, and that alone is what is making me suggest that you should find someone else.

 

I agree with you about taking a break for a while. You may be at a point where you have had so many negative experiences with therapists that even if the next one is the best choice in the world for your ds, you might not be in an emotional position to accept his or her advice and suggestions. Give yourself and your ds a chance to decompress and work together, and I think you will know when (or if) you need to start looking for a new therapist.

[PachiSusan]

 

It is totally unprofessional for that behavior therapist to compare your child to any other one. What his own daughter is doing is irrelevant. It's fine to talk about age norms for things in a general way (by age ___, most children will be doing ____) because that helps parents know what is and what isn't a concern. But comparing specific children is way out-of-line IMHO.

 

 

This was my thought as well, but I wasn't sure how to word it.

[ondreeuh]

I guess I'd want to prove it to him because he seems like he's got *some* potential in being a great therapist for ds. Or it could just be that I'm thrilled to have a male therapist and letting more slide.

 

Honestly, ds could be working slightly higher, but i have a hard time pushing through the tantrums (*that* is part of the therapist's job!) and he's doing well. Another 100 on a math test today. He probably can read more than I'm giving him credit for.

 

For myself, i just remember that the ps had him for 4 years (2yrs special Ed preschool, k, 1st), and he was way behind when i pulled him. He learned nothing, except manipulation, when in school.

 

 

I'd let the therapist know that you are working with other specialists on his educational needs, but what you really need from him is help with the behavior.

 

If he gets hung up on something, I would try to steer it back. "That's already being addressed and he is on track to meet his goals."

[Catwoman]

Unfortunately, there isn't a real good appreciation among professionals who work with SN kids about the value of HS. I was flabbergasted when our family's pediatric neurologist told us to do whatever we could to keep our DS in a HS situation because she's basically the only professional I've run into who is pro-HS.

 

It is totally unprofessional for that behavior therapist to compare your child to any other one. What his own daughter is doing is irrelevant. It's fine to talk about age norms for things in a general way (by age ___, most children will be doing ____) because that helps parents know what is and what isn't a concern. But comparing specific children is way out-of-line IMHO.

 

 

:iagree:

 

What's up with comparing your ds to his own kid??? :glare: That was entirely unprofessional and irrelevant, and was completely uncalled-for.

[wapiti]

It's fine to talk about age norms for things in a general way (by age ___, most children will be doing ____) because that helps parents know what is and what isn't a concern. But comparing specific children is way out-of-line IMHO.

 

:iagree:

[unsinkable]

 

 

I'd let the therapist know that you are working with other specialists on his educational needs, but what you really need from him is help with the behavior.

 

If he gets hung up on something, I would try to steer it back. "That's already being addressed and he is on track to meet his goals."

 

 

I think part of the problem might be it is hard to draw definite lines in this situation. If he is a behavior therapist and amo's DS's behavior is troublesome during schoolwork, what is the therapist supposed to do? Not talk about schoolwork?

 

[amo_mea_filiis.]

 

 

I think part of the problem might be it is hard to draw definite lines in this situation. If he is a behavior therapist and amo's DS's behavior is troublesome during schoolwork, what is the therapist supposed to do? Not talk about schoolwork?

 

 

This is the main problem. But the therapist is supposed to help with on task behavior. It shouldn't matter if the task at hand is his math test, handwriting, or hand washing after using the bathroom. He shouldn't be constantly asking if ds is up to par with his peers.

 

I think our other problem is communication. He asks ds if he did his school work. Ds says no. Therapist asks why. Ds says he didnt feel like it. That's ds's way out of the conversation.

 

Meanwhile, ds completed another chapter in math, read to me daily, listened to an audio book while setting up his lego war, listened to a history podcast while coloring, wrote me a nasty letter in cursive followed by an apology letter in cursive, went to his therapies, problem solved when his sled was getting stuck, switched laundry, made his bed, put away dishes...... Obviously school and life are folded together so even if the book he read happened at bedtime, it's still "school."

 

I'll keep a log this week and show the therapist that we don't just sit around reading our role play site, or homeschool board, or watching lego war videos. If this doesnt help, I'm taking a break and will consider a different company in the spring.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

 

 

:iagree:

 

What's up with comparing your ds to his own kid??? :glare: That was entirely unprofessional and irrelevant, and was completely uncalled-for.

 

 

Putting the unprofessional-ness aside: if his daughter is doing some of the same stuff as ds, shouldn't that be enough to show (at least in the therapist's mind) that he's on or near grade level in that subject?! Ds would be a young 3rd grader. If he were born in PA, he'd be a 2nd grader.

[PachiSusan]

 

Meanwhile, ds completed another chapter in math, read to me daily, listened to an audio book while setting up his lego war, listened to a history podcast while coloring, wrote me a nasty letter in cursive followed by an apology letter in cursive, went to his therapies, problem solved when his sled was getting stuck, switched laundry, made his bed, put away dishes...... Obviously school and life are folded together so even if the book he read happened at bedtime, it's still "school."

 

 

 

Love this description. I think we can ALL relate!!!!

 

I do think it's a good idea to keep some sort of log to show the therapist that you are holding up your end of the bargain and maybe, just maybe, that will make him let up.

[unsinkable]

 

 

This is the main problem. But the therapist is supposed to help with on task behavior. It shouldn't matter if the task at hand is his math test, handwriting, or hand washing after using the bathroom. He shouldn't be constantly asking if ds is up to par with his peers.

 

I think our other problem is communication. He asks ds if he did his school work. Ds says no. Therapist asks why. Ds says he didnt feel like it. That's ds's way out of the conversation.

 

Meanwhile, ds completed another chapter in math, read to me daily, listened to an audio book while setting up his lego war, listened to a history podcast while coloring, wrote me a nasty letter in cursive followed by an apology letter in cursive, went to his therapies, problem solved when his sled was getting stuck, switched laundry, made his bed, put away dishes...... Obviously school and life are folded together so even if the book he read happened at bedtime, it's still "school."

 

I'll keep a log this week and show the therapist that we don't just sit around reading our role play site, or homeschool board, or watching lego war videos. If this doesnt help, I'm taking a break and will consider a different company in the spring.

 

 

I agree that the learning lifestyle is hard for some people to grasp, especially when we can teach our Littles so much of what they need to know academically in a non-academic way.

 

Good luck!

[wapiti]

I can't remember, has this kiddo had testing for LDs, etc. with a psych/neuropsych yet? That would be something I'd want to rule out. Just thinking out loud...

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Ds has tons of issues. His biggest known is his language problem.

 

He does have a neuropsych appt on monday but that is just to decide how many hours to schedule to eval. Prior evals (non neuropsych) have given little information or asked more questions than answered.

 

Next month he sees a neuromuscular dr, then we go for overnight EEG, then trial anti seizure meds. Neuro also says bilateral cerebellar dysfunction.

 

I have no idea if he has any LDs, but he has problems in general.

[wapiti]

Ds has tons of issues. His biggest known is his language problem.

 

He does have a neuropsych appt on monday but that is just to decide how many hours to schedule to eval. Prior evals (non neuropsych) have given little information or asked more questions than answered.

 

Next month he sees a neuromuscular dr, then we go for overnight EEG, then trial anti seizure meds. Neuro also says bilateral cerebellar dysfunction.

 

I have no idea if he has any LDs, but he has problems in general.

 

Sounds like a good plan! I think that will be very, very helpful. It will probably answer a lot of questions as well as raise new questions. (As an aside, neuropsych testing should include, at a minimum, IQ and achievement testing. Be aware that the achievement testing will delve into the grade/age-level aspect of his performance.) I would prepare to ask the neuropsych lots of questions about whether the behavior issues have roots in a learning issue. I'd go ahead and assume that the language problem, whatever you mean by that, is indeed a learning issue. Good luck with the neuropsych!! If you haven't already seen speech for language processing and an OT, there is a chance you might come away with referrals to those unless the NP has his own staff for those.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

 

 

Sounds like a good plan! I think that will be very, very helpful. It will probably answer a lot of questions as well as raise new questions. (As an aside, neuropsych testing should include, at a minimum, IQ and achievement testing. Be aware that the achievement testing will delve into the grade/age-level aspect of his performance.) I would prepare to ask the neuropsych lots of questions about whether the behavior issues have roots in a learning issue. I'd go ahead and assume that the language problem, whatever you mean by that, is indeed a learning issue. Good luck with the neuropsych!! If you haven't already seen speech for language processing and an OT, there is a chance you might come away with referrals to those.

 

He's in speech and ot :) and will be adding PT back next month (was discharged last summer). He's been in speech for about 6 years now.

 

All of this the therapist (behavior) knows. He knows we're making progress in all areas. Knows we attend therapists consistently and work on things at home. Knows self help is a HUGE part of our year. Knows that neuropsych is coming and knows that i finally found the neurologist who may be able to make something of ds's diagnosis of "complex," yet somehow thinks i need to have him tested by the school.

[Χά�ων]

Today, between tantrums, ds located Africa in our geography book, traced and colored the tracing, on his own and because he felt like it. What grade level is this?

 

Going by this thread:

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/449471-university-students-cant-identify-continents-on-a-blank-map/page__st__100__hl__+university?do=findComment&comment=4621870

 

Seems like he would be working above grade leve ;)

 

 

FWIW my DS is 8 (3rd) and covered continents last year and touched on it earlier this year.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

His reading decoding is testing at 5th grade (thank you, Elizabeth!) and he stopped because he was bored, but since he has no interest in reading, i have no idea where his comprehension is. I will present this to the therapist, but it means nothing to me. I just mean that we will continue where we are.

 

I seriously question the test because ds refuses to read magic tree house books, and when he does, he stumbles a bit and will read maybe a page. Maybe if the motivation were there he'd probably read MTH just fine.

 

He was able to grab "geography of the world" off the shelf while reading the title aloud.

 

Ds still says he can't read.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

 

 

Going by this thread:

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/449471-university-students-cant-identify-continents-on-a-blank-map/page__st__100__hl__+university?do=findComment&comment=4621870

 

Seems like he would be working above grade leve ;)

 

 

FWIW my DS is 8 (3rd) and covered continents last year and touched on it earlier this year.

 

I was thinking about this thread earlier. When mine are not busy fighting, they like to toss the inflatable globe back and forth and name the spot whatever chosen finger lands on. Ds is decent with continents and is reading the ocean labels, and dd started with countries.

 

I really think if i kept a running log of every little thing we did in a week, I'd probably even surprise myself. Lol.

[Ellie]

I guess I'd want to prove it to him because he seems like he's got *some* potential in being a great therapist for ds. Or it could just be that I'm thrilled to have a male therapist and letting more slide.

 

Honestly, ds could be working slightly higher, but i have a hard time pushing through the tantrums (*that* is part of the therapist's job!) and he's doing well. Another 100 on a math test today. He probably can read more than I'm giving him credit for.

 

For myself, i just remember that the ps had him for 4 years (2yrs special Ed preschool, k, 1st), and he was way behind when i pulled him. He learned nothing, except manipulation, when in school.

 

 

I wouldn't try to prove anything to him. Maybe you could look him in the eyeball and tell him to lighten up on grade level carp and focus on why you brought your ds to see him in the first place, and that if he doesn't get over it, you'll be looking for another therapist.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Ellie, please come over when he's here next week and help me spit this out!

 

I try to avoid confrontation, and normally just bail out by calling the office and telling them i want to try another therapist. I got lucky with dd's last therapist- just when i was getting fed up, she quit. I love her current therapist. She was ds's therapist and knows him fairly well. She's explains things to dd very well and dd trusts her. She switched to dd when she ran out of ideas for ds.

 

Are behavior therapists supposed to have ideas up their sleeve? Beyond telling me to be consistent and set a consequence?

[Pamela H in Texas]

Okay....

 

I would ask him about his concern about homeschooling. Pay attention to his answer and weigh it in your own mind. But you don't owe him anything. Then let him know that this is your choice for now and you'll reevaluate often; but it is no longer up for discussion. If you wish, you can mention he was in PS for four years not making 1/2 as much progress as he has at home (or whatever).

 

I would consider his "cop out" answer though. My oldest son *really* needed less time with me, more influence of trusted others, etc. It took me too long to get it. He did do considerably better (usually) when he was a little older and could do things with people in the congregation, was competing for a state title in a sport, etc. At 8, we had NO hope of him ever getting on level, etc. Yesterday, at almost 18, he went to college orientation! It just wasn't a linear progression as it is for most kids. It is like a line graph that starts out with almost no slope then rises exponentially...like how a snowball grows :)

 

Anyway, so past that. I would just ask him, "do you believe you can continue to help ds progress behaviorally within the confines of our homeschool decision as it stands?" If his answer is no, you have your answer. If he says yes, then you have something to work with.

 

I hope that helps a little.

 

As for your last question? Well, ARE you being consistent with whatever discipline you are using? He can't really move beyond that if you aren't there (and most people really aren't). If you have gotten that down, then yes, he should be. There are steps up from consistency. When I see SuperNanny, it drives me nutty how they use that time out spot for everything. However, those people have NOTHING in place already! Getting to a place of SOME functioning is necessary to progress. Okay, so once it isn't chaotic, then some GOOD positive discipline is helpful. Discipline is to teach and guide. It is taking an individual child to a place where he can think about things, make good choices, live by the rules of society, be a contributing member of his community. It is giving him life skills. Really, MOST of us don't live with consequences overhead as a carrot or whip! DS needs to learn not to either. But I can understand why some people need to start there.

[momofkhm]

Is it possible to move them off of it?!

 

Ds's behavior therapist is really hung up on homeschool stuff. Last week he asked what the graduation requirements were! Ds is EIGHT. I'm not too worried yet.

 

This week he asks the last time i had ds tested by the school to make sure he's on grade level. Umm, I'm not concerned with what they think.

 

He's reading (more than he'll let others see), doing well at the end of MM1 (on track to be done by March), can identify continents on a globe and map, can point to most presidents when he reads the name (as a "sight" word), and can name a few, knows his ABC's in sign and a ton of signs, knows coins, adds simple money, tells time, etc.

 

I do not really care where he is academically compared to his peers. He can't be compared to his peers based on his language disability alone. He's just starting to be able to describe an object's function! That's way under third grade skills.

 

I'm wondering how long i should even keep this therapist around. He should not be concerned with ds's academic skills or level (ok, if he were in ps acting out in a 3rd grade class because he couldn't read, that would be different). He should be concerned with ds's compliance with whatever work i put in front of him, whether it's calculus or a preschool dot to dot, or a cursive review page.

 

So do i just toss therapist...again? Or attempt to "prove" that while ds may not be at ps grade level, we are working well at whatever level it is he'd be considered?

 

I'm going to talk to his previous therapist who was fine with school stuff, but couldn't handle him behaviorally, and i want your opinions too. Please. :)

 

 

Just a wild guess here. My mom was an OT in her working life. It may be because he is trying to get him to grade level and needs to know what that is. (Wait, he should know grade level based on age.) Maybe he wants to know if his behavior is consistent with cognitive ability.

 

I know mom would work with kids on, say, handwriting until they were consistent with grade level.

 

Maybe you are this guy's first homeschooler and he just doesn't understand not having grade level.

 

I don't know. Just a couple of shots int he dark.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Okay....

 

I would ask him about his concern about homeschooling. Pay attention to his answer and weigh it in your own mind. But you don't owe him anything. Then let him know that this is your choice for now and you'll reevaluate often; but it is no longer up for discussion. If you wish, you can mention he was in PS for four years not making 1/2 as much progress as he has at home (or whatever).

 

I would consider his "cop out" answer though. My oldest son *really* needed less time with me, more influence of trusted others, etc. It took me too long to get it. He did do considerably better (usually) when he was a little older and could do things with people in the congregation, was competing for a state title in a sport, etc. At 8, we had NO hope of him ever getting on level, etc. Yesterday, at almost 18, he went to college orientation! It just wasn't a linear progression as it is for most kids. It is like a line graph that starts out with almost no slope then rises exponentially...like how a snowball grows :)

 

Anyway, so past that. I would just ask him, "do you believe you can continue to help ds progress behaviorally within the confines of our homeschool decision as it stands?" If his answer is no, you have your answer. If he says yes, then you have something to work with.

 

I hope that helps a little.

 

As for your last question? Well, ARE you being consistent with whatever discipline you are using? He can't really move beyond that if you aren't there (and most people really aren't). If you have gotten that down, then yes, he should be. There are steps up from consistency. When I see SuperNanny, it drives me nutty how they use that time out spot for everything. However, those people have NOTHING in place already! Getting to a place of SOME functioning is necessary to progress. Okay, so once it isn't chaotic, then some GOOD positive discipline is helpful. Discipline is to teach and guide. It is taking an individual child to a place where he can think about things, make good choices, live by the rules of society, be a contributing member of his community. It is giving him life skills. Really, MOST of us don't live with consequences overhead as a carrot or whip! DS needs to learn not to either. But I can understand why some people need to start there.

 

 

Yes and no to consistency, which I'm sure equals no. But, I've picked a method and stuck with it for a good amount of time (usually about 6 weeks) before reevaluating. There's not a catch all method that works, it's behavior specific.

 

Spitting was stopped with ignoring. In the past i was able to ignore the cursing (he used to say buck before he had the f sound), but it never changed it. For mooning, i threatened to make him wear pink, Dora, ballerina panties, and that worked immediately. He never wore them, never mooned again. Bath and bed is a carry over from infancy. He will fight hard on bathing, but it gets done.

 

Our biggest problem is just compliance without a tantrum. It doesn't matter that his morning routine has been consistent for months, he still has a massive meltdown when it is time for math or putting away the dishes. He gets up, takes his meds, eats breakfast, brushes his teeth, gets dressed, makes his bed... This whole process took about a week to enforce. All i did was stand or sit near him quietly after i told him what to do. However, the tantrum starts as soon as his bed is made because dishes is the next step.

 

He screams, curses, cries, throws stuff. Eventually gets over it, grabs a pair of tongs and uses the tongs to put the dishes away. When he is down to the last few items, he starts up again because math is next. Another tantrum, gets over it, does his work. After math he can play a game on my phone for 5 minutes, then he does handwriting.

 

Once in a very blue moon, when the moon also has purple polka dots, mustard stripes, and green dashes, he MAY complete one or two tasks without a tantrum or just a small tantrum.

 

All i get from the the therapist is "be consistent." Is it too much to wish for the day that math does not equal "i f'ing hate you, you suck!" followed by an apology soon after?

 

I have been consistent. His tantrums are a planned part of routine. The therapist is supposed to know how to help us out of this cycle.

 

Most of ds's behaviors are to escape. If i address the tantrums by sending him to his room or taking something away, he'll never do what i ask, and he'll be getting his way, escaping the task.

 

The most accurate description of ds is "complex." Once the therapist figures this out, they realize they can't help.

 

If ds ends up having neurological problems that can be helped with meds (like seizures), i need a therapist willing and able to jump in and get dirty, whatever that may mean. I did not go to school for this, they did!

[Joanne]

This is the main problem. But the therapist is supposed to help with on task behavior. It shouldn't matter if the task at hand is his math test, handwriting, or hand washing after using the bathroom. He shouldn't be constantly asking if ds is up to par with his peers.

 

I think our other problem is communication. He asks ds if he did his school work. Ds says no. Therapist asks why. Ds says he didnt feel like it. That's ds's way out of the conversation.

 

Meanwhile, ds completed another chapter in math, read to me daily, listened to an audio book while setting up his lego war, listened to a history podcast while coloring, wrote me a nasty letter in cursive followed by an apology letter in cursive, went to his therapies, problem solved when his sled was getting stuck, switched laundry, made his bed, put away dishes...... Obviously school and life are folded together so even if the book he read happened at bedtime, it's still "school."

 

I'll keep a log this week and show the therapist that we don't just sit around reading our role play site, or homeschool board, or watching lego war videos. If this doesnt help, I'm taking a break and will consider a different company in the spring.

 

 

 

IMO, it is totally relevent and appropriate for this therapist to ask about grade level and to assess your preparedness to provide/facilitate education for the years to come.

 

You can't (and shouldn't) compartmentalize therapists - they need to treat the whole, not the parts.

 

What *I* see you doing is reacting defensively to the questioning, almost in an anticipatory manner as if you assume he's going to be hostile and critical. The therapist may well already know that your son doesn't represent in answers the actual progress and day's activities. We often ask questions not for the content of the answer but for context and more information that is useful to what we are trying to accomplish.

 

Stop trying to *prove* to this therapist that you are working and that your son is working. OTOH, stop assuming that the therapist is off track.

[chiguirre]

IME, if you tell the therapist about any IQ testing you've had done they will never mention grade level expectations again.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

 

 

 

IMO, it is totally relevent and appropriate for this therapist to ask about grade level and to assess your preparedness to provide/facilitate education for the years to come.

 

You can't (and shouldn't) compartmentalize therapists - they need to treat the whole, not the parts.

 

What *I* see you doing is reacting defensively to the questioning, almost in an anticipatory manner as if you assume he's going to be hostile and critical. The therapist may well already know that your son doesn't represent in answers the actual progress and day's activities. We often ask questions not for the content of the answer but for context and more information that is useful to what we are trying to accomplish.

 

Stop trying to *prove* to this therapist that you are working and that your son is working. OTOH, stop assuming that the therapist is off track.

 

I do really get this. But why is he soooooo concerned with whether or not my 8yo with disabilities is "on grade level" or if i know the graduation requirements?

 

At what point is going to start working on coping with ds? At what point is he going to drop his sibling rivalry speech and help me work on the goal that ds not react so strongly to dd? He's supposed to help ds process his frustration during tasks like tying his shoes (ds CAN do, but he gets frustrated when trying).

 

He's only taken one walk with ds, never intervenes when i tell ds to do something, just gives me speeches about grade level, testing, etc. He is supposed to somehow support me in getting ds to comply.

 

It's not being done. Even if i had ds tested by the school, what good does it do? If he is behind his typical peers, which he is, is the therapist going to support the behavior side of getting ds to work harder? Ds is surely capable of doing more than 2 math pages per day, but he's not willing. That's where I need help. These are the goals set in his behavior plan. If the therapist needs data on how long it takes ds to comply, i can do that.

 

He's been here a few months already and doesn't seem to have an interest in the actual doing part.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I know he's not really supposed to be concerned with ds's actual answers (like doing no school work all week), but he is. He takes ds's word and lectures him on the importance of school work. Ds refuses to read to him, i get a speech about how his wife is a reading specialist and how it's really difficult teaching kids to read. Fine! Have your wife try and get something out of him. He'll either claim he can't read at all, or he'll fly through testing above his age.

 

Sight word reading makes progress look faster, and I'm not doing any sight words with him. We're going through Elizabeth's phonics lessons as many times as possible before March, then I'm moving to webster's speller. I'm sure this is going to show different results right now, but i hope this early "lag" makes him well read in a few years.

 

I did tell him about the iq testing, but that didnt change anything.