6packofun Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Ditto for us and the ColdCalm + Chestal combo! Great stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 For me, it's not a big deal if you take it. But it also should not be a big deal to reveal that homeopathy is not supported by "rigorous clinical trials" and rests on ideas that run counter to our basic understanding of physics and chemistry. This was an anecdotal thread posted by someone who used it and had success in their own life. Others of us who have tried it have posted our own anecdotes because we too have had success using it in our own lives. No one asked for information on how it works. We can and have done our own research. I don't really feel the need to go googling for more information to add to a thread that wasn't about that. We know that some people think it is humbug. Anyone looking at this thread can make up their own mind without dire warnings about how people who decide to try it for themself are naive and gullible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faline Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 What successful use? Do you have links? http://homeopathyplus.com.au//?s=animals http://homeopathyplus.com.au//?s=plants http://www.a-r-h.org/Publications/Journal/sampleArts/Farm%20Homoeopathy%20HAWL.pdf http://www.charlesloopsdvm.com/home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 This was an anecdotal thread posted by someone who used it and had success in their own life. Others of us who have tried it have posted our own anecdotes because we too have had success using it in our own lives. No one asked for information on how it works. We can and have done our own research. I don't really feel the need to go googling for more information to add to a thread that wasn't about that. We know that some people think it is humbug. Anyone looking at this thread can make up their own mind without dire warnings about how people who decide to try it for themself are naive and gullible. I, for one, never used the words naive and gullible. I just don't understand the threat that proper information poses. You guys made your choice, fine. But there are likely more people reading the thread who may not be familiar with homeopathy who could use the additional information I've posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 http://homeopathyplu....au//?s=animals http://homeopathyplu...m.au//?s=plants http://www.a-r-h.org...opathy HAWL.pdf http://www.charlesloopsdvm.com/home From one of the studies (bovine mastitis) in the first link: The problem with a ‘before and after’ trial, such as this, is that it is not possible to determine for certain, whether the effect is from the intervention of from some other ‘unknown’ factor. The results are nonetheless extremely suggestive of a strongly positive effect from the homeopathic intervention. The pig stillbirth study wasn't double-blind. The third link deals with, again, anecdotes. The fourth link is a business website?? I know people start sounding anal when they insist on properly done, peer-reviewed studies but that's because they're constructed to find answers to very specific questions and have been reviewed to ensure their data and conclusions are correct. When you just slap together a before-and-after trial you essentially prove nothing but a correlation which, and we should be driving this into our kids' heads in science, is NOT causation. You don't know what other factors might have affected the cows. With a study that's not double-blind you introduce a complicating factor from the get-go, the researcher (or farmer with the pigs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I don't want to derail the thread but do have a question. Are the naysayers saying all homeopathic remedies are bogus? I had the flu earlier in the year and took Tamilu. I have not been the same since. I will not take it again. I did some research and came across Sambucol. I've looked it up and the studies show it reduced the time of illness by 3-4 days vs those on a placebo. The studies looked fairly legit to me. I now have a bottle on hand to use if we get any cold or flu symptoms. So, do some homeopathic remedies work? Is Sambucol not considered homeopathic? This kind of stuff is really new to me and this is a sincere question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I did some research and came across Sambucol. I've looked it up and the studies show it reduced the time of illness by 3-4 days vs those on a placebo. The studies looked fairly legit to me. I now have a bottle on hand to use if we get any cold or flu symptoms. So, do some homeopathic remedies work? Is Sambucol not considered homeopathic? This kind of stuff is really new to me and this is a sincere question. Sambucol is not homeopathic; it is herbal. Completely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamturner Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Do people that use homeopathic treatments go rewrite the science texts and books they're using for their children to make them jive with homeopathic ideas? Really? You're going there? I honestly don't care that it defies science and chemistry. I don't even give it a second thought. I don't explain it to my kids. I just say, "Here. Take this." That's the extent of it. There have been countless times when homeopathy worked for me, and not for just colds, flus, etc. Eye pain, finger pain, burns, post-surgical nausea, post-childbirth blues, stomach issues, canker sores, tooth aches, colic in babies, teething pain, on and on and on. It really doesn't matter to me if you buy into it or not. I don't appreciate the talking down and rude attitudes. Say you don't believe in it, why, and leave it at that. Don't ask if I'm raising a bunch of idiot children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Sambucol is not homeopathic; it is herbal. Completely different. Thanks! Due to this thread I was looking it up again and kept seeing homeopathic pop up with Sambucol. I now realize that was for just certain ones, not the liquid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeEQ Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Long-time lurker here. Coming out because I felt this thread could use these links - http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/569469/posts http://homeopathicwisdom.com/2010/09/the-scientific-basis-for-homeopathy/ http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/salud/esp_salud18.htm http://www.naturalnews.com/031210_Luc_Montagnier_Homeopathy.html Also will need to dig up this info, but research into PCBs has shown that at dilutions of one drop to 20 swimming pools full of water, there were profound changes in animal brains, while ingesting in large amounts has little effect. Some scientists are beginning to rethink the widely-held thought that "the dose makes the poison". Quantum physics is only just beginning to make it's impact on chemistry, we're slowly realizing that much happens at level we can just barely begin to measure. So I'll agree, the main body of current science doesn't explain homeopathic medicine now, but that doesn't mean it won't catch up. - long term homeopathic user Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 http://www.uha.org.uk/Oscillococcinum%20Review%20Article.pdf http://www.scielosp.org/scielo.php?pid=S0021-25712012000100017&script=sci_arttext&tlng=es I use a lot of alternative medicine (not just homeopathy). I have not had success with some homeopathic agents and do not use them. I have had success with three homeopathic medicines: oscillo, arnica and the mix of homeopathic agents called Calms Forte. I do a lot of research on treatments. Yes, I would love to have 100% supportive articles on everything I've tried but most of the time I find that either the studies haven't been done or there is a mix of good and inconclusive and sometimes bad. I do not try the treatments that have been shown to be harmful. I do try some of the ones that have had a mix of good and inconclusive. I also check for adverse effects. Most pharmaceuticals do have adverse effects. Many alternate treatments, including homeopathic treatments do not have any. That, in and of itself, recommends them to me. Not all alternate treatments I've tried, which have come with testimonials from others who have been helped by them, work for me. Oscillo does. The combination of the studies I've found that have shown some advantage to using it in combination with my own anecdotal experience does lead me to continue to use it. I would suppose that to be true for anyone using any medication or treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Michelle - That quote from me was snarky but it did express a frustration I'm having which is why it seems more plausible to believe scientifically unsound homeopathy ideas then think people might be experiencing a placebo effect. I say placebo effect and many people here seem to interpret that as, "it doesn't work". Of course it does! You guys have said as much. Placebos can have powerful impacts on symptoms. I just can't understand why that suggestion seems so outlandish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 HomeEQ - You brought to mind a science show I watched (and this is very vague -I'll have to look into it) on chemicals that mimic estrogen that, in larger concentrations, cause no harm but in smaller concentrations may trigger changes in the body. I think my issue with homeopathy though is that we're not talking tiny concentrations but rather none at all. Quantum mechanics may reveal something in the future about homeopathy but to date it hasn't and I'm not aware of any research that demonstrates the mechanics of how homeopathy works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alenee Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 What I find troubling about all of the naysayers here is that you're completely ignoring history. We had many things in this world (still do, in fact) that work, but we didn't/don't know why. Eventually, people prove things. I highly doubt SpyCar, WishboneDawn, and NMoira are quantum physicists. I AM certain that the three of you don't know everything about the way our world works so to be so adamant about things of which you have only read seems careless to me...as if all you are trying to do is prove your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Alenee - No one here is a quantum physicist (or have you been holding out on us Michelle? :D). Everyone here is trying to prove a point and things sometimes get disproven as well. I've made a snarky comment or two here and I really do think homeopathy is hokum but I really don't think I'm better then the folks who use homeopathic treatments. Contrary to what's been implied in a post or two I don't think these women are idiots or gullible. I've read too many excellent posts by them on other topics to think that. I just know they're wrong about this and since this is the internet, I must win! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 What I find troubling about all of the naysayers here is that you're completely ignoring history. We had many things in this world (still do, in fact) that work, but we didn't/don't know why. Eventually, people prove things. I highly doubt SpyCar, WishboneDawn, and NMoira are quantum physicists. I AM certain that the three of you don't know everything about the way our world works so to be so adamant about things of which you have only read seems careless to me...as if all you are trying to do is prove your point. nmoira The problem with your reasoning is that there's no solid research to show that homeopathy works better than a placebo. None. Trotting out the word "quantum" won't change that. Gravity demonstrably "works," but we're only just now beginning to really understand why. There are other things that demonstrably "work" for which we don't understand the mechanism. That's not the case for homeopathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 No Jean. I win. You see, I have a box of chocolates besides my bed and need an excuse to eat some. Victory is a good excuse. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 No Jean. I win. You see, I have a box of chocolates besides my bed and need an excuse to eat some. Victory is a good excuse. Sorry. Chocolate is its own end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annandatje Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I understand your intent, I just want to make it clear to folks reading the thread who aren't familiar with homeopathy what exactly it isn't. It isn't evidence based medicine. It isn't something that's even plausible because it doesn't make sense with our understanding of chemistry and physics. What it most likely is is a placebo. And if, knowing that, you think it offers you relief, then go ahead and use oscillo. I'm firm believer in the power of placebos to suppress pain and some symptoms. :iagree: Plus it is unlikely to be harmful in and of itself which is more than can be said for some prescription medications. The mind / body connection is a powerful mysterious wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 This one's for all the people who want us to be more like the UK.... linked from Huffpo, not Fox. Homeopathy is Europe's #1 Alternative for Drs. (they of the superior healthcare...) Numerous surveys over the past 150 plus years have confirmed that people who seek homeopathic treatment tend to be considerably more educated than those who don't (1). What is not as well known is the fact that homeopathic medicine is the leading "alternative" treatment used by physicians in Europe...and growing numbers of the citizenry. We're all just a pack of boobs, yanno. United Kingdom England's Royal Family has been homeopathy's strongest advocates, thereby confirming that this system of natural medicine is not some "new age" therapy. There are five homeopathic hospitals working within the National Health Service, some of them with a two-year waiting list for non-emergency visits to a homeopath. According to a House of Lords report (2000), 17 percent of the British population use homeopathic medicines (11). The respect accorded homeopathy and homeopathic practice by British physicians is evidenced by a 1986 survey in the British Medical Journal that showed that 42 percent of physicians referred patients to homeopathic doctors (12). Other evidence of support from health professionals was a 1990 survey of British pharmacists that found 55 percent considered homeopathic medicines "useful," while only 14 percent considered them "useless" (13). The normally conservative British Pharmaceutical Association held a debate in 1992 to decide whether pharmacists should promote homeopathic medicines (14). They concluded by a large majority that they should. Despite the use and acceptance of homeopathy throughout the U.K., there is a very active group of skeptics, with significant Big Pharma funding, who work vigorously to attack this system of natural medicine. Even though there is a wide variety of serious and significant pressing issues in British medicine and science today, an active group of skeptics of homeopathy successfully resurrected in October, 2009, a House of Commons committee, called the Science and Technology Committee, with the intent to issue a report on homeopathy. A leading skeptics organization, Sense about Science, that has been pushing for the re-creation of this Committee is led by a former public relations professional who worked for a PR company that represents many Big Pharma companies. Of additional interest is the fact that other Directors of the Sense about Science organization are a mixture of former or present libertarians, Marxists , and Trotskyists who also, strangely enough, seem to advocate for the GMO industry (ironically, libertarians normally advocate for a "live and let live" philosophy, but in this instance, it seems that they prefer to take choice in medical treatment away from British consumers). (my bold) GermanyThe German people are so supportive of natural medicine that the German government mandated that all medical school curricula include information about natural medicines. Approximately 10 percent of German doctors specialize in homeopathy, with approximately 10 percent more prescribing homeopathic remedies on occasion. In 1993, there were 1,993 medical doctors who had formally qualified in homeopathy, while in 2006, this number jumped over 100 percent to 6,073 (20). In Germany there are 9,000 natural health practitioners called heilpraktikers in 1993 and over 20,000 in 2007. Approximately 20-30 of heilpraktikers specialize in homeopathy. The Swiss Federal Office for Public Health issued a report to the government of Switzerland which concluded that "the effectiveness of homeopathy can be supported by clinical evidence, and professional and adequate application be regarded as safe" (30). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Yikes. I was wondering was this thread was HOT. Gonna go do a shot of Sambuca... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I've skimmed this *scholarly* article, and from what I have seen, there are positive effects that have been observed. It is 'under review' and not for public distribution....but y'all are family so it's alright for sharing. ;) http://hersculaborat...publication.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terabith Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I don't use homeopathic products, although I tried a couple once for my dd's ear infection that started in the middle of the night when we were out of town, out of a desperate attempt to do SOMETHING to help, even though I didn't buy the theory. It didn't help. BUT, even if it's the placebo effect, so what? The placebo effect is fairly powerful (which has been shown scientifically), and it's not going to hurt anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 BUT, even if it's the placebo effect, so what? The placebo effect is fairly powerful (which has been shown scientifically), and it's not going to hurt anyone. This is kinda my feeling, as long as we're not talking about foregoing, say, a more conventional cancer treatment. It's the bolded part that's potentially problematic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Why I'm going to continue to take oscillo: according to the papers, my area has been hit hard with flu and other viruses this year. according to my friends and family my area has been hit hard with flu and other viruses this year. according to my friends and family, those who have gotten it have been hit hard. I can't take a flu shot - my last flu shot left my arm swollen 2x it's original size. Very very painful. I have autoimmune problems. I've been taking oscillo immediately at all signs of a virus. Friends who were at the same events with me got sick. I have not. I may be just very lucky but I don't think so. Oscillo isn't prescribed for cancer and I'm not trying to prevent cancer with it. Oscillo is now available at regular drugstores. This makes it more convenient to get. The studies I linked do show some benefit to taking it over and above actual placebos. Other than charging those doing the studies with fraud, no one on this thread has explained that away. I am busy and don't have time for viruses. Thank you oscillo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I don't use homeopathic products, although I tried a couple once for my dd's ear infection that started in the middle of the night when we were out of town, out of a desperate attempt to do SOMETHING to help, even though I didn't buy the theory. It didn't help. BUT, even if it's the placebo effect, so what? The placebo effect is fairly powerful (which has been shown scientifically), and it's not going to hurt anyone. I agree to a point. As I've said, I've benefitted from the placebo effect myself. The only caveat is that the placebo effect suppresses symptoms, it doesn't cure ailments and so I'd say the same of homeopathy and that people should be aware of that facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexi Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 We love our OCC!!! It saved my life when I had the flu while pregnant. It is awesome! I was skeptical at first but my midwife highly recommended it. I always keep some in the house now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terabith Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I agree to a point. As I've said, I've benefitted from the placebo effect myself. The only caveat is that the placebo effect suppresses symptoms, it doesn't cure ailments and so I'd say the same of homeopathy and that people should be aware of that facts. I agree. But for the flu, suppressing symptoms really is what you want, as there's not a cure. Now, if someone was using it for something like cancer, then that would be a huge problem and I would be very concerned. But if they find it helpful; it isn't hurting anything, and it isn't preventing traditional medical treatment for a serious illness, go for it if you want to. Go placebo! Far fewer side effects, and works pretty well. I'm serious and not condescending. I don't believe that it has a mechanism that works, but I don't see anything wrong with taking advantage of the (scientifically based) placebo effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[email protected] Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Is it the full moon AGAIN? Moderator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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