Arming (some) school staff? What do you think of this article?

[Lang Syne Boardie]

i'm not gonna way in on the whole teacher with guns cause I grew up going to pubic school when over half of the boys had shot guns and rifles in their trucks. They never got the thing out and shot at anyone. They would fight and stuff with their fist. They all carried knifes but never pulled the things out.

 

I hate that we have all these killings because the whole culture is falling into a a culture of death, self centerness, etc.

 

These shooting are a result of so much else that is wrong with modern life.

 

I pretty sure more kids in chicago and other urban gang centers have died do to this "death culture" and self centerness than this school shooting.

 

 

America want a law or a quick fix they need to look at what they have ask for no moralilty,we can't judge because of the moral relatism there is no right or wrong in the school rooms cause that would be actually saying that something is morally right or wrong.

 

I believe what wrong has more to do with a spiritual void in society but i know those of you that don't believe in devil (evil) and a holy spirit goodness need to find something to answer the why and then the secular humanism believe they have answers but its their teaching that have many believing that animals are on the same level as humans or humans are animals - well this 20 year old acted like an animal

 

christian see it has a world that devil is ever roaming seeking to destroy - he is very real - this man may of been mentally ill but his soul was dark and i would even go where some christian are afraid to say demonic

 

sorry for going off topic teacher with guns wonder if they can behave like the boys of my generation can we trust grown men and women with guns when it use to be the teen boys in every rural community in america - just sayin

 

 

This doesn't sound like you. At least, if I am thinking of the right poster with this name. These spelling, grammar, and syntax errors don't sound like the poster I associate with the username, cafelatte. This post is very hard to read. Are you alright?

[justasque]

This doesn't sound like you. At least, if I am thinking of the right poster with this name. These spelling, grammar, and syntax errors don't sound like the poster I associate with the username, cafelatte. This post is very hard to read. Are you alright?

I am also concerned for cafelatte, who does not seem to be herself in this post.

 

 

...I hate that we have all these killings because the whole culture is falling into a a culture of death, self centerness, etc. These shooting are a result of so much else that is wrong with modern life...America want a law or a quick fix they need to look at what they have ask for no moralilty,we can't judge because of the moral relatism there is no right or wrong in the school rooms cause that would be actually saying that something is morally right or wrong. I believe what wrong has more to do with a spiritual void in society but i know those of you that don't believe in devil (evil) and a holy spirit goodness need to find something to answer the why and then the secular humanism believe they have answers but its their teaching that have many believing that animals are on the same level as humans or humans are animals ...

 

I know many Americans of a wide variety of religious beliefs (including those who are athiest or agnostic). None of them, not one, thinks it's OK to kill random innocent 6 and 7 year olds. Not the conservative Christians, not the liberal Christians, not the Muslims, not the Jews, not the Hindus, not the Sikhs, not the Pagans, not the Wiccans, not the Buddhists, not the agnostics, not the athiests. None.

[justamouse]

I am also concerned for cafelatte, who does not seem to be herself in this post.

 

I know many Americans of a wide variety of religious beliefs (including those who are athiest or agnostic). None of them, not one, thinks it's OK to kill random innocent 6 and 7 year olds. Not the conservative Christians, not the liberal Christians, not the Muslims, not the Jews, not the Hindus, not the Sikhs, not the Pagans, not the Wiccans, not the Buddhists, not the agnostics, not the athiests. None.

 

 

I don't know about the above poster, or how she sounds different, but I don't think her? one paragraph there is speaking against other religions--moral relativism is a cancer for all. Natural Law itself impresses on a person that it's not right to kill another human being. Moral Relativism was spoken against by the oldest philosophers.

[cathmom]

From what I have read, the principal was not in her office, so unless she had a loaded gun on her person, it wouldn't have helped. Having one armed person on a school campus would only make a difference if that person *just happened* to be near where the gunman came in, which is very unlikely. I work in one of the smallest schools I have ever seen, and someone could still shoot a bunch of people before the one armed person got there and could take him/ her out, assuming they had a clear shot.

 

Frankly, I'm surprised more people didn't die at Sandy Hook.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

My first reaction is that it's nuts for teachers to carry guns. Kids in ps (in some states) have to keep their life saving epi pens and other meds locked up in the nurse's office, away from the kid, but the classroom could now have a gun?

[AimeeM]

 

This doesn't sound like you. At least, if I am thinking of the right poster with this name. These spelling, grammar, and syntax errors don't sound like the poster I associate with the username, cafelatte. This post is very hard to read. Are you alright?

Same

[Murphy101]

My first reaction is that it's nuts for teachers to carry guns. Kids in ps (in some states) have to keep their life saving epi pens and other meds locked up in the nurse's office, away from the kid, but the classroom could now have a gun?

 

Well I think it's stupid the meds are locked with the nurse.

 

I don't have a problem with anyone properly trained concealed carrying at any location.

 

I don't think teachers should be armed unless they already want to at their own expense.

[MBM]

Hey, why not just arm the kiddos and have truly superior fire-power?

 

A sixth grader brought a gun to school the other day to protect himself and then pointed it at two (?) girls' heads at recess. Ammo was in his backpack. What idiotic parents.

[MBM]

My son's high school has two campuses, and both are patrolled daily by plain-clothes officers who are well-trained in using a gun. I do not want teachers to be armed.

[Heather in Neverland]

Very eye-opening video regarding all those "responsible citizens" with CCW permits...

 

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=8QjZY3WiO9s&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D8QjZY3WiO9s

 

As a professional educator, someone who has spent the last 18 years working in schools, I will NEVER carry a gun into a school. I will quit first.

 

 

[jelbe5]

Frankly, I'm surprised more people didn't die at Sandy Hook.

 

 

Agreed. The only reason more did not die is because the criminal decided to end his own life.

 

The other thing to consider is the action of first responders. They need to (rightfully) make sure they do not become a casualty also. People were outraged when, during Columbine, SWAT did not just storm the building. But they did not have maps of the inside of the school or a good idea of where the two killers were. It took hours for them to go from room to room to secure the situation. In that time a beloved teacher bled to death. In these situations the good guys unfortunately can't just swoop in and save the day. We need to make sure the bad guys can't get in, but why not make sure there are trained good guys inside, too?

 

I will chance to say that most of us would not feel afraid to see a uniformed police officer walking around in a school. We have been conditioned to trust the police and usually only dislike them when we see lights in our rear view mirror. A city detective friend of mine is always in plain clothes. Sometimes I see his sidearm, sometimes I do not. I trust him completely. Why should we be afraid of the idea of completely qualified individuals carrying concealed for the "just in case" situation. Only a few people would even know. Again, I am talking about individuals who are qualified and have passed the scrutiny to carry concealed.

[TCB]

:iagree:Ali many make the same assumption. Do not just assume this to be true...check out the facts....the facts say violence rises when guns are taken out of the hands of citizens....then only criminals have them...what do they have to fear?

 

 

 

I would be very interested to see these facts then. I looked at the incidence of school shootings in the world and the USA was by far the country with the most incidences. How does this fit in with saying that the availability of guns lessens this violence? Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying. Compared to say Europe, guns are much more available in the US - and so are the school shooting incidences . How does this add up?

[FaithManor]

I am not for the teachers having to arm themselves though in light of things, I can certainly understand their fear and desire to be allowed to do so.

 

However, I am ALL for funding that would pay for an armed officer in uniform in each school. That presence very well may make perps think twice...they want to do their damage, but knowing that there is someone in the building who could get there quickly and take them out before accomplishing their goal, well...that might be a deterent. Plus, police officers have emergency training that teachers do not. Most are CPR certified and have disaster training, hazmat...you name it. They have the potential to help with a wide variety of situations including evacuating, in an orderly fashion, the classrooms nearest the chem lab when two "geniuses" mixed a couple of test tubes of bleach with a couple of test tubes of ammonia because THEY DIDN'T BELIEVE THE TEACHER'S CLAIMS. Fortunately, hazmat teams from the fire department were able to "clean" the air ducts, and stupid and company plus the unfortunate teacher and innocent classmate nearby got away with a few hours in the ER on oxygen and being watched for signs of chemically induced pneumonia. The English teacher next door to the lab panicked...100% panicked. A uniformed officer would be more likely to regain control. Plus, if the worst happened, the officer, assigned daily to walk the halls of that school, will be able to communicate much more effectively - knowing exactly what SWAT needs to know and how to present the information - with law enforcement outside. He/she is a huge advantage in a disaster.

 

Therefore, I'd be for law enforcement on campus, but not guns for the teachers.

 

That said, I also think that retired military personnel with clean records (NOT my ex-bil with severe PTSD and anger management problems) could fulfill this role as well. Additionally, for troubled boys, male law enforcement or veterans may give them a positive role model. My cousin-in-law is a retired air force lieutenant colonel and has had behavioral profiling courses...Quantico type stuff. He'd be a real asset to a high school staff. He's also wonderful with troubled kids and I've known MANY a military person who was as well so I could be very supportive of something like this.

 

Faith

[Parrothead]

Very eye-opening video regarding all those "responsible citizens" with CCW permits...

 

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=8QjZY3WiO9s

 

As a professional educator, someone who has spent the last 18 years working in schools, I will NEVER carry a gun into a school. I will quit first.

I didn't watch the video but I can imagine. I've only met one person with a CCW permit that wasn't a complete whack-job. Either conspiracy theorist they are all out to get us, or wannabes who can't pass the psych portion of the entrance exam.

[Joker]

I'm really surprised more schools don't already have an armed officer on the premises. There was always one at my schools growing up and this was a small town in the 80s-90s. So, I thought nothing of it when dds started school in elementary school and there was one armed officer at the school. I did hear they changed things here not long ago and the elementary schools don't have one full time, but the high schools and middle schools do. My dd really likes the deputy at her school and he gives a lot of talks to the kids and is a presence their comfortable with.

[cathmom]

Very eye-opening video regarding all those "responsible citizens" with CCW permits... http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=8QjZY3WiO9s&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D8QjZY3WiO9s As a professional educator, someone who has spent the last 18 years working in schools, I will NEVER carry a gun into a school. I will quit first.

 

Wow that was a great segment! thanks for sharing - I posted it to FB.

[msjones]

OP here. I realize these threads are bound to take on lives of their own.

 

But I just have to step in once more and say that the article does not suggest that individual teachers carry guns.

 

The suggestion discussed in the article is the arming of one trained staff member (something akin to an air marshall).

 

The suggestion is that armed criminals would be more likely to think twice about attacking schools if they knew someone on campus was armed and trained to protect the students and staff.

[I.Dup.]

Wow that was a great segment! thanks for sharing - I posted it to FB.

 

I did too. I hope people can get past the title and actually watch it. I found it very eye-opening AFA what can happen in a high pressure situation like the recent shootings. "Everybody isn't Rambo."

[Juniper]

OP here. I realize these threads are bound to take on lives of their own.

 

But I just have to step in once more and say that the article does not suggest that individual teachers carry guns.

 

The suggestion discussed in the article is the arming of one trained staff member (something akin to an air marshall).

 

The suggestion is that armed criminals would be more likely to think twice about attacking schools if they knew someone on campus was armed and trained to protect the students and staff.

 

I think this is one of those times where the horse has the bit in its teeth and has run away with you! ;) I applaud your effort. At this point many are still so raw that it is easier to take things to an extreme you are definitely against than to wrestle with something that isn't quite such a change from what we already have in place. For example: Many schools already have armed police officers and we are familiar with air marshals. It is almost too uncomfortable to discuss, because of the fact that it is a viable situation and many struggle with putting their seal of approval on it. I will say that before this thread I was unaware of the amount of armed guards and police in schools. Knowing that I think it is just a matter of time and putting together the school marshal program, before it is in place.

[I.Dup.]

For those who aren't comfortable with armed guards/officers at a school, what do you think is appropriate? I hope that doesn't sound snarky, I'm asking in all sincerity, trying to understand. :)

[msjones]

For those who aren't comfortable with armed guards/officers at a school, what do you think is appropriate? I hope that doesn't sound snarky, I'm asking in all sincerity, trying to understand. :)

 

This is the next question, isn't it?

 

I think you should start a new thread.

 

The title of this one distracts from (what I had hoped would be) the real discussion (My fault, I suppose, since I wrote the title!)

[I.Dup.]

 

This is the next question, isn't it?

 

I think you should start a new thread.

 

The title of this one distracts from (what I had hoped would be) the real discussion (My fault, I suppose, since I wrote the title!)

 

I'm not brave enough to start another thread on this issue, LOL.

[brownie]

I think a couple of secretly armed teachers who have been trained, undergone psychiatric evaluation, and are willing would be a good idea. I think an armed security guard would be fine too, but why is this any more trustworthy a person than a teacher if both have undergone the same training and evaluation? I also think we need to look at the mental healthcare situation in this country. You can blame the gunman for his actions all you want but that won't stop it from happening again.

[SKL]

I'd love to find that some teachers at my kids' school are secretly "packin'." Except for one thing. What if some irresponsible teacher doesn't take all precautions to keep the guns out of kids' hands? Or, what if a troubled student attacks a teacher in order to get hold of her gun? Which risk is more concerning - the extremely rare risk of a gunman coming into a school, or the somewhat greater (IMO) risk of a youngster doing something foolish with a gun?

 

After all, how did the Connecticut gunman get a hold of the guns he used?

 

I am pro-2nd amendment, by the way. I don't believe general gun control is the answer, but having guns everywhere isn't either - especially if kids know where the guns are.

[Spy Car]

A problem of having armed officers on elementary school campuses, from my perspective, is it reinforces the idea that the world is a very dangerous place, that there is a constant threat, and that only guns will keep it safe.

 

That, IMO, has real (and highly negative) consequences for the mental health of young children (and their parents).

 

One of the biggest problems we have as a society, from my perspective, is that we are developing large sub-cultures of paranoia and fear. And that we have large and highly organized institutions feeding that paranoia and fear (not to mention the echo-effect of individual nutters) that amplify the paranoia.

 

Arming homes with military-style assault rifles out of fears of the apocalypse is just a tip of the iceberg.

 

Unfortunately we have groups that twist the truth to their own ends. Groups that make it their business to create hatred, anger, paranoia and fear. Putting armed officers on elementary school campuses does nothing to stop the cycle of madness that I think is at the heart of the problem.

 

Better to day to the fear-mongers: Enough, we won't buy what you are selling.

 

Bill

 

 

[Dmmetler]

I think a couple of secretly armed teachers who have been trained, undergone psychiatric evaluation, and are willing would be a good idea. I think an armed security guard would be fine too, but why is this any more trustworthy a person than a teacher if both have undergone the same training and evaluation? I also think we need to look at the mental healthcare situation in this country. You can blame the gunman for his actions all you want but that won't stop it from happening again.

 

 

My only concern on having, say, ex-military teachers carrying weapons vs specific staff (or multi-use buildings where you have police or military presence on campus because that's where their facilities are) is that a teacher with a classroom of kids is not free to move about the building-so if you have, say, a 6th grade teacher who is trained and able to respond in such an incident, that teacher can't go down to kindergarten easily if there's a threat there.

 

When I wrote my former school's emergency response protocol, one of the big things I had to take into account was WHICH staff were free to move around the building-and, for the most part, we weren't necessarily the ones who would have been the best responders. For example, as a music teacher, it was a lot more likely that I'd be able to go and help a child who used a wheelchair normally get down the stairs from his 6th grade classroom when the elevator couldn't be used. Except that said 6th grader outweighed me by a large margin. Our art teacher was similarly free, but her personality was such that in any crisis, it was likely some adult would have to calm HER down. The teacher who was Troops for Teachers retired Navy, who would have been a WONDERFUL person to have on your side in any crisis situation had a class that contained several volatile kids who would need her calm, under control presence in any crisis.

 

When we had the police substation in the building, when we had fire drills and the like, the police would, for the most part, go out with us (I think the dispatcher might have stayed at the post, knowing it was a drill-we never actually had a true emergency occur on campus while kids were present, although we did have two crisis occur that required implementing parts of the plan (as far as media contact and releasing kids to parents went) while I was there)-and there were a couple of kids who often whatever officers were in the building at the time would go to, because they were kids who really had a hard time, and the teacher could use those extra hands-and in many cases, a police officer being present would help the kids stop panicking a lot faster than, say, the guidance counselor or school nurse.

 

That's not to say that there might not be a couple of school staff who would be good candidates to carry concealed-only that it needs to be considered that teachers really cannot easily take on another set of responsibilities because they already have a lot to deal with during the school day.

[Free]

But we are a nation of much bloodshed, as is seen by out treatment of the unborn.

When has America ever NOT been a nation of bloodshed?

[Joker]

I don't see a police officer on campus as feeding into paranoia or making kids think the world is a dangerous place. I grew up with one on my school campus and never thought twice about it. My dd has one on her campus, really likes him, and doesn't think it's all about someone shooting up the school. They had a fight in a locker room several months ago and the police officer was necessary. He diffused the situation quickly.

 

There are many other things he's done with the students. He's talked to the students about drugs and alcohol. He's talked to her civics class about laws and how they apply to the different ammendments they were studying. He's talked to them about public service. I don't think the students view him as someone who's only there to protect them from crazy people.

 

I think the students would come away with the idea that an officer is there because the world is so dangerous if the school addressed it that way or if the parents did. I don't think simply having an armed officer at school presents that idea to kids.

[msjones]

I'm not brave enough to start another thread on this issue, LOL.

 

 

I'll do it, then, if you'd rather not. Just didn't want to step on your toes if you had wanted to pursue the question.

[Spy Car]

I don't see a police officer on campus as feeding into paranoia or making kids think the world is a dangerous place. I grew up with one on my school campus and never thought twice about it. My dd has one on her campus, really likes him, and doesn't think it's all about someone shooting up the school. They had a fight in a locker room several months ago and the police officer was necessary. He diffused the situation quickly.

 

There are many other things he's done with the students. He's talked to the students about drugs and alcohol. He's talked to her civics class about laws and how they apply to the different ammendments they were studying. He's talked to them about public service. I don't think the students view him as someone who's only there to protect them from crazy people.

 

I think the students would come away with the idea that an officer is there because the world is so dangerous if the school addressed it that way or if the parents did. I don't think simply having an armed officer at school presents that idea to kids.

 

 

I take it from items mentioned in your post (drugs and alcohol discussions, locker rooms, and civics classes) that you are not talking about an elementary school?

 

Bill

[Joker]

I take it from items mentioned in your post (drugs and alcohol discussions, locker rooms, and civics classes) that you are not talking about an elementary school?

 

Bill

 

 

Currently, dd is in middle school and that's what the officer does. She also had one in the elementary school that did talks on age appropriate topics (like strangers). I had one in all of my schools growing up as well. It never made me feel the world was a dangerous place because they were there and I never recall any other students thinking odd things about it either. Neither dd had a problem having an officer in their elementary school because no one ever acted like it was a problem. He was just looked at as part of the staff.

[I.Dup.]

I'll do it, then, if you'd rather not. Just didn't want to step on your toes if you had wanted to pursue the question.

 

 

If you're interested enough in the answer, that would be great. :) I don't want to hijack your discussion...just don't blame me if the new discussion goes badly. :leaving: :tongue_smilie:

[Spy Car]

 

 

Currently, dd is in middle school and that's what the officer does. She also had one in the elementary school that did talks on age appropriate topics (like strangers). I had one in all of my schools growing up as well. It never made me feel the world was a dangerous place because they were there and I never recall any other students thinking odd things about it either. Neither dd had a problem having an officer in their elementary school because no one ever acted like it was a problem. He was just looked at as part of the staff.

 

 

From my perspective I would rather have the resources it would take to keep an armed officer as part of an elementary school staff spent on another teacher (or teacher and a half), or on arts programs, or music programs, or physical education programs, or libraries, or teacher's aids, or any of a myriad of other things that are getting cut under the current economic climate.

 

Bill

[Joker]

From my perspective I would rather have the resources it would take to keep an armed officer as part of an elementary school staff spent on another teacher (or teacher and a half), or on arts programs, or music programs, or physical education programs, or libraries, or teacher's aids, or any of a myriad of other things that are getting cut under the current economic climate.

 

Bill

 

I can understand that. We haven't had those things cut here. They've actually added more foreign language teachers at dds middle school to accomodate more students, and the other programs mentioned are going strong.

[msjones]

 

If you're interested enough in the answer, that would be great. :) I don't want to hijack your discussion...just don't blame me if the new discussion goes badly. :leaving: :tongue_smilie:

 

I anticipate very few replies.

 

We'll see!

[Spy Car]

 

 

I can understand that. We haven't had those things cut here. They've actually added more foreign language teachers at dds middle school to accomodate more students, and the other programs mentioned are going strong.

 

 

Unfortunately I live in a district where school programs are being gutted. Because we are fortunate to attend a high income school with high parent participation and financial support support our school has retained many of the programs that would have otherwise been cut. But such is not the case at many (most) schools. It is a very bad situation that only deepens the lack of opportunity in disadvantaged communities.

 

In the hierarchy of priorities I'd prefer smaller class sizes, open libraries, more teaching staff and functioning enrichment programs to armed officers on elementary school campuses.

 

Bill

 

 

[Parrothead]

A problem of having armed officers on elementary school campuses, from my perspective, is it reinforces the idea that the world is a very dangerous place, that there is a constant threat, and that only guns will keep it safe.

 

But the world is a very dangerous place. It is by no means all sunshine and roses. And I'm not talking about conspiracy theory the government is out to get everyone nuts.

 

Time and again the quiet neighborhoods, the safe schools, the peaceful towns are hit again and again with tragedy.

 

There is really so very little difference in a kid seeing a trained and armed officer on a school campus and seeing a trained and armed officer cruising the neighborhood or walking a beat through the mall.

 

The cops are not the bad guys.

[PineFarmMom]

NM :)

[Spy Car]

 

But the world is a very dangerous place. It is by no means all sunshine and roses. And I'm not talking about conspiracy theory the government is out to get everyone nuts.

 

Time and again the quiet neighborhoods, the safe schools, the peaceful towns are hit again and again with tragedy.

 

There is really so very little difference in a kid seeing a trained and armed officer on a school campus and seeing a trained and armed officer cruising the neighborhood or walking a beat through the mall.

 

The cops are not the bad guys.

 

 

The world is not nearly as dangerous a place as people who are fed on sensationalist local and national news programs believe it to be. Numerous studies have proved that. We've lived though a era of falling crime rates, and falling rates of violent crime. Yet, people are more paranoid about their safety than ever.

 

In good measure it is because there are professional fear-mongers who believe it is in their economic, political, and even theological interest to stoke fear, hatred, paranoia, and anger. Outlets that benefit from creating "outrage" are distorting the news, and underminging the message that we ought to love our neighbors, rather than fear and hate them.

 

If we do not wake up to the fact that there are forces that are deliberately trying to destroy the national peace of mind for their own ends, we will never solve the problem. Because paranoia fuels mental illness and violence and the gun culture that is at the heart of the current tragedy and the larger fraying of American society.

 

It is time for more civility, more reason, more compassion, and more love.

 

Bill

[TracyP]

Yet other murderers have attacked at movie theaters, shopping malls, and work places. They don't seem to be intimidated by the thought that someone might have a gun in those locations.

 

I trust NPR as a reliable source for news, and they had a guest on two days ago that made some interesting points. He said that there were other theaters in the Aurora area either closer to the shooter's home or bigger. The one he chose was the only one marked as a gun-free zone. He said the same was true at the mall shooting. He said this is the case over and over again in these mass shootings.

 

He then asked this question(paraphrase): What if you knew a criminal/stalker was after your family? What if you had the option to put up a sign in your yard that labeled your home a "gun free zone". Would you do it?

[Parrothead]

The world is not nearly as dangerous a place as people who are fed on sensationalist local and national news programs believe it to be. Numerous studies have proved that. We've lived though a era of falling crime rates, and falling rates of violent crime. Yet, people are more paranoid about their safety than ever.

 

In good measure it is because there are professional fear-mongers who believe it is in their economic, political, and even theological interest to stoke fear, hatred, paranoia, and anger. Outlets that benefit from creating "outrage" are distorting the news, and underminging the message that we ought to love our neighbors, rather than fear and hate them.

 

If we do not wake up to the fact that there are forces that are deliberately trying to destroy the national peace of mind for their own ends, we will never solve the problem. Because paranoia fuels mental illness and violence and the gun culture that is at the heart of the current tragedy and the larger fraying of American society.

 

It is time for more civility, more reason, more compassion, and more love.

 

Bill

 

I agree with the bolded. But the rest sounds like some of the conspiracy theories I've read about.

 

And while stats say that crime is down, things like what happened in CT Friday are becoming all too common.

 

No, arming school staff is not the answer, but the cops (usually) aren't the bad guys.

[Spy Car]

He then asked this question(paraphrase): What if you knew a criminal/stalker was after your family? What if you had the option to put up a sign in your yard that labeled your home a "gun free zone". Would you do it?

 

 

This begs the question if people should live their lives as if they and their families are being stalked by a criminal who intents to murder them? Because this is the mentality that fear-mongers are deliberately trying to create. I think it is very unhealthy of individuals and very destructive to the state of our society generally.

 

It is what causes people to stockpile military-style assault weapons in their homes. And we see where that can lead.

 

Paranoia is the enemy. And more guns is not the answer.

 

Bill

 

 

[Parrothead]

Come on. Really? This doesn't happen constantly. Think of all the schools there are in this country. This does not happen often at all.

 

And think about it. One officer standing at one point in a school. Someone heck bent on shooting up a school could just go to a door where there is no officer standing and shoot his way in. It wouldn't take all that much to do that if someone really wanted to.

I wasn't referring specifically to schools. But there have been quite a number of school shootings. Did you see that list someone posted?

 

And school resource officers (and cops in general) don't stand stand on exes. They patrol.

 

If there had been one at SH on Friday munching donuts in the office he could have taken out Lanza before Lanza got to the classroom.

[Spy Car]

If there had been one at SH on Friday munching donuts in the office he could have taken out Lanza before Lanza got to the classroom.

 

Or he might have been shot himself, or maybe even more children might have died in the shoot-out. Who knows?

 

As a parent I think it would be scary for young children to see an armed officer patrolling our otherwise peaceful elementary school. I think it would create fear in young children and an create an impression that only guns and armed officers would keep them safe. And amplify the idea that this is a dangerous world all out of proportion to the actual threat.

 

Bill

[TracyP]

This begs the question if people should live their lives as if they and their families are being stalked by a criminal who intents to murder them? Because this is the mentality that fear-mongers are deliberately trying to create. I think it is very unhealthy of individuals and very destructive to the state of our society generally.

 

It is what causes people to stockpile military-style assault weapons in their homes. And we see where that can lead.

 

Paranoia is the enemy. And more guns is not the answer.

 

Bill

 

You are avoiding the question. Is advertising that there are no guns on the premises a good policy to make people safer?

[Parrothead]

Or he might have been shot himself, or maybe even more children might have died in the shoot-out. Who knows?

 

As a parent I think it would be scary for young children to see an armed officer patrolling our otherwise peaceful elementary school. I think it would create fear in young children and an create an impression that only guns and armed officers would keep them safe. And amplify the idea that this is a dangerous world all out of proportion to the actual threat.

 

Bill

That's what makes the world go 'round. Our experiences in it make us see things differently. I just don't see it that way.

[Laurie4b]

I have read some, but not all replies. I think we need a comprehensive plan that must include a look at mental health laws and services, possibly at violent media and games, definitely at how coverage of mass shootings is done (though I think the damage done by the way Columbine was reported will continue to last for a long time before it's reversed, and yes, guns.

 

I am still thinking about the gun debate. My dh's friend from Israel says that school personnel in Israel are armed. That works there in that context. But we have to beware of importing ideas from one country to another, as things that work in one context might not in another.

[FairProspects]

Come on. Really? This doesn't happen constantly. Think of all the schools there are in this country. This does not happen often at all.

 

And think about it. One officer standing at one point in a school. Someone heck bent on shooting up a school could just go to a door where there is no officer standing and shoot his way in. It wouldn't take all that much to do that if someone really wanted to.

 

I don't think it is becoming more common, but I do wonder if it is becoming more random. This may just be my perception, but it seems like the shootings used to have more of a personal connection to the shooter - domestic violence, bullying by classmates at your own school, getting fired at work, etc. While that connection doesn't make these events any less tragic, it does make them more targeted or explainable. Lately it seems as if the violence is more random, just pent up rage at society and somebody, anybody in public has to pay. That to me is a different issue to prevent than targeted violence (and much more difficult in scope) which requires a different approach.

[Spy Car]

 

 

You are avoiding the question. Is advertising that there are no guns on the premises a good policy to make people safer?

 

 

I have never seen an establishment in my life that advertises they are a "gun free zone," and mercifully live in an area where concealed gun permits are relatively hard to get, but if you are asking me how I would feel? I would feel a lot safer being in a place where guns were prohibited by law that in a place where everyone was packing.

 

Not even a close call.

 

Bill

[Parrothead]

Or he might have been shot himself, or maybe even more children might have died in the shoot-out. Who knows?

 

As a parent I think it would be scary for young children to see an armed officer patrolling our otherwise peaceful elementary school. I think it would create fear in young children and an create an impression that only guns and armed officers would keep them safe. And amplify the idea that this is a dangerous world all out of proportion to the actual threat.

 

Bill

 

Yeah, he or she might have. It happens.

 

But that doesn't negate the fact that just possibly no one would would have died that day at that school if a trained armed officer had been there. You're right. We will never know.

 

You make it sound like cops are inhuman machines. They are husbands, wives, sons, daughters, moms and dads. They aren't out to terrorize little kids. To imply such is just wrong.

 

Who do you call when there is danger?