I'm lost and overwhelmed. A middle ground pre-algebra curriculum???

[nomadicmama]

I'm at my wit's end. My son recently completed Singapore 5A&B. It was our 3rd year with Singapore. We liked it but I was having trouble keeping up with him and I often found the solutions confusing if they were even in the teacher's guide at all.

 

I thought it would be best to switch to a curriculum that is designed to be done without a teacher but challenging. So we decided to try AoPS. After two weeks I realized it wasn't going to work for us. He was miserable and confused and when I tried to help him we both became miserable and confused.

 

I want my kids to have a good education but the biggest reason we homeschool is to develop strong family relationships and character. It's hard to have a strong relationship when we are both stressed and unhappy.

 

We really loved Singapore but it intimidates me since I pretty much stink at teaching math. We were going to go with TT or MUS but then I got nervous that I would be selling my ds short with a program that doesn't challenge him enough. But since I haven't used those curriculums perhaps they are challenging enough?

 

So my question is are there any middle ground pre-algebra curriculums that are challenging but not overwhelming for a non-mathy teacher? :) We want something user friendly. We are traveling fulltime so I can't use anything that needs a consistent internet connection. What do other non-mathy teachers use?

 

Thanks so much!

[1bassoon]

I've used Singapore too - and yes, when you hit those upper levels, it gets crazy!

 

Here's the deal: the good math curriculum is the one that gets done and gets done consistently. I've known people whose kids have gone on to be math majors in college with Math-U-See. It can happen.

 

I'm using MUS for my non-mathy daughter, and she's loving it. My eldest son is doing online learning through Potter's school, but I understand that's not an option (LOVE your blog and adventure, btw!).

 

Have you thought about Saxon? Many, many homeschoolers have been successful with that, and my understanding is that it's fairly easy to teach.

 

Hope this helps some. Try not to make yourself too crazy over it! :grouphug:

[NittanyJen]

Try Life of Fred.

 

The mathematics is strong and challenging and very complete.

 

It is written directly to the student and intended to be self-taught, and complete solutions are provided to the exercises (indeed, teaching also happens in the solutions). The author is available to the student by email or phone for questions.

 

My math professor husband and former tutor self are delighted with the quality of the content, and our sons love math using Fred. Older son uses it as his standalone (Fractions through Algebra now); younger is using elementary as a supplement to Singapore Primary Math.

[redsquirrel]

For Singapore, you mention the teacher's guide, but did you have the Home Instructor's guide? I found those really helpful for year 5 & 6. There is also Khan academy for help with teaching any specific topic. Sometimes, just watching one of those clips on multiplying fractions, or order of operations, for example, really made all the difference for my son.

 

There are also computer math programs such as Teaching Textbooks and a couple others I cannot remember. I obviously need more coffee, lol.

[Halcyon]

How about Dolciani? We use it to supplement AoPS when we get to a challenging part, and it is very straightforward. My son really likes it, and does it pretty independently. It is a SOLID curriculum, and not as hard as AoPS.

[Colleen in SEVA]

Here's the deal: the good math curriculum is the one that gets done and gets done consistently. :grouphug:

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

The math snob in me turned my nose up at certain programs for YEARS because if their non-challenging, drill-and-kill, etc. reputation. And then out of desperation during pre-algebra, I took my oldest to a homeschool store and told him to pick whatever one he wanted. He chose Saxon. At first I was embarrassed to even tell people we were using it. LOL!! It has made SUCH a difference in his speed, confidence, and overall preparedness for algebra! I had written off the constant daily review as "too much", but now I can see that it was exactly what he needed to internalize all of the things needed before he jumped into algebra.

 

My third son is good at math, but he has 2 older brothers who greatly excel in math, and one day he told me he was "dumb at math" because he was struggling with something in the Singapore 2nd grade book. After talking with a respected friend, she told me how her son who was frustrated in another program really blossomed with Teaching Textbooks, so I gave my DS the placement test for the 3rd grade book, and he did fine. He is SO PROUD of the fact that he is doing THIRD grade math even though he is only in 2nd grade, and he is getting 20-21 correct out of 22 every day. It isn't necessarily that the program is so much simpler, it just explains it in a way that he totally gets, whereas he just didn't with Singapore. Yes, I agree that the scope and sequence is not as advanced in Teaching Textbooks as other programs... but that is not always a bad thing. He is still learning all of the things he needs to know. Not everything that he COULD know, but everything that he NEEDS to know. And... he is motivated to get to 4th grade math before the end of 2nd grade (both of his brothers did 4th grade math when they were in 2nd, but with different programs), so many days he CHOOSES to do a second lesson, and since the lessons are 100% independent, it is totally fine with me (doing 2 lessons per day in another program would NOT work for 5 kids LOL).

 

A long way of saying... don't base a decision this important on what does or does not work for someone else. If the level 5 Singapore books are that frustrating, it's most likely because something isn't solidified from one of the lower levels. Switching now (but sticking with a program, not continuously jumping ship when it gets hard) seems like it will bring a peace to your school day that is needed. Saxon and Teaching Textbooks are both really solid programs, it just took me a few years to admit it. :) MUS isn't bad either, but you would have to add things to it to beef up the word problems and fill up the time (just my personal opinion, of course, but my son was spending about 40 minutes PER WEEK when we tried MUS, and that just isn't enough time spent in math mode).

Edited November 8, 2012 by Colleen in SEVA

[8filltheheart]

Have you looked into Horizon's pre-alg? I have not used it personally, but I have heard good things about it. (They used to have quite a few pages available for previewing.)

[brownie]

Saxon is fine. And more challenging than TT from what I hear. DS did saxon pre-algebra, didn't finish it, and is getting an A- in a ps algebra course this year. Admittedly we are struggling but that is because 1) we didn't finish pre-alg and 2) he isn't ready developmentally for algebra (which I told them). We tried AOPS too but it was a disaster for us for retention even though ds liked it and I liked it.

 

DS2 is finishing up Singapore 5B in the next couple of weeks. He has done the entire series. I am planning on trying Saxon pre-alg next. We need some good repetition to firm those concepts before Algebra. I think he'll like it - but who knows? If he hates it, I will rethink but I think he will be relieved to crunch some numbers for awhile.

 

Brownie

[PeterPan]

We really loved Singapore but it intimidates me since I pretty much stink at teaching math. We were going to go with TT or MUS but then I got nervous that I would be selling my ds short with a program that doesn't challenge him enough. But since I haven't used those curriculums perhaps they are challenging enough?

 

I think the people who slam TT so much (who haven't even USED it) really do others a disservice. We've used the TT pre-algebra and are now using the algebra 1. It would fit your criteria. No, it is not the most challenging thing out there. I resolved that in my own mind by doing TT and then adding in just the C level problems and Dominion Math (very challenging word problems) from the BJU math. (You could use stuff from Singapore, Dolciani, BJU, whatever for that.) That way math can get done every day and only a bit of it is mom-driven.

 

That's the combo that's working for us, and her test scores are fabulous. You can find all kinds of stories with any curriculum. If you want to try TT (or MUS), try it! Do it and at the end of the year do some standardized testing. I do it every year, and it's definitely helpful. If he needs more challenge, add in a little something. For us that baseline of math that gets done every day, without complaint or frustration, has been good.

 

I have a Dolciani algebra 1 tm from the 1960's, the one people on the hs board try to collect. I was comparing the word problems in it last night to the BJU math algebra 1, because I'm thinking about selling it (my Dolciani) off. BJU was more applied, Dolciani more theoretical, and BJU had more on given topics. So I would use Dolciani with a very theoretical child and BJU with someone who needs their math more in a narrative, more in context. Really though, the BJU math word problems are exceptional at this level, requiring lots of steps, extending into other subject areas (how the math applies to physics, etc.). I'm just very impressed. And actually, if you want to teach it, the BJU math is a *challenging* option for a regular child. It's over-challenging for a remedial or struggling child, imho, but for a regular child where you want material to challenge but be traditional, there you go. The videos are supposed to be good too. I don't think my dd would learn well with a video for math (just her), and I SURE don't want to teach it fully myself, lol. For us, TT creates that compromise.

 

So yeah, if you want to try TT, try it. It can be very good for the right child. Short lessons, lots of humor, spiral, easier context so they can just GET it and not be left at sea trying to float and paddle and desalinate water all at once. :D

Edited November 8, 2012 by OhElizabeth

[bethben]

Ds went from Singapore 5b to Saxon pre-algebra. The thing that bugs me about Saxon is the lack of challenging word problems. The thing I like about Saxon is the constant review that my son needs and the teacher helps if I should need them. There are a bunch of different options out there for DVD learning.

 

Now, if you want the challenging word problems, art of problem solving has an online word problem program called alcumus. It has word problems from math competitions. The nice thing is that you type your answer in and you get two tries to get it right. If you don't, it explains how to do the problem. It has given ds the word problems he was missing with Saxon. I'm loving this combination.

 

Beth

[wapiti]

How about Dolciani? We use it to supplement AoPS when we get to a challenging part, and it is very straightforward. My son really likes it, and does it pretty independently. It is a SOLID curriculum, and not as hard as AoPS.

:iagree:

 

Dolciani's Prealgebra, An Accelerated Course is very straightforward, not as hard as AoPS, but nice and solid. And cheap. Answers to the odds are in the back (which is all you'd need). Direct instruction.

 

(Be careful at Amazon, as newer editions - 2002 - are listed under the same description but it's not the same book. You'd want the 1985 orthe 1988 edition.)

 

You can always add in the AoPS videos or Alcumus if that helps your dc.

Edited November 8, 2012 by wapiti

[freesia]

:iagree:

 

Dolciani's Prealgebra, An Accelerated Course is very straightforward, not as hard as AoPS, but nice and solid. And cheap. Answers to the odds are in the back (which is all you'd need). Direct instruction.

 

(Be careful at Amazon, as newer editions - 2002 - are listed under the same description but it's not the same book. You'd want the 1985 orthe 1988 edition.)

 

You can always add in the AoPS videos or Alcumus if that helps your dc.

:iagree: We also switched from AoPS to Dolciani and were very, very happy. He is sailing through Jacobs right now.

[Crimson Wife]

Have you looked into Horizon's pre-alg? I have not used it personally, but I have heard good things about it. (They used to have quite a few pages available for previewing.)

 

Horizons is a solid pre-a program but the teacher's guide isn't super-helpful IMHO. That's not a big deal for me personally since I'm using the Horizons to add spiral review to Singapore DM1. But I wouldn't recommend it for a parent who needs a lot of "hand-holding" when it comes to teaching pre-a.

[ktgrok]

Well, we just switched to TT pre-Algebra and the difference is amazing. My son did his first test with a SMILE on his face! And yesterday he said, "I don't mind math." Seriously, if I lived near them I'd bring the company cookies. It has totally CHANGED the atmosphere in my house.

[PeterPan]

Well, we just switched to TT pre-Algebra and the difference is amazing. My son did his first test with a SMILE on his face! And yesterday he said, "I don't mind math." Seriously, if I lived near them I'd bring the company cookies. It has totally CHANGED the atmosphere in my house.

 

Love it!! And yes, we all deserve cookies. I think we should make some tonight when we finally get our science labs for the week done, whew! :D

 

BTW, I have the Dolciani pre-algebra. It's fine. I could probably be compelled to sell it if someone wrote me wanting it.

[Pen]

I'm at my wit's end. My son recently completed Singapore 5A&B. It was our 3rd year with Singapore. We liked it but I was having trouble keeping up with him and I often found the solutions confusing if they were even in the teacher's guide at all.

 

I thought it would be best to switch to a curriculum that is designed to be done without a teacher but challenging. So we decided to try AoPS. After two weeks I realized it wasn't going to work for us. He was miserable and confused and when I tried to help him we both became miserable and confused.

 

I want my kids to have a good education but the biggest reason we homeschool is to develop strong family relationships and character. It's hard to have a strong relationship when we are both stressed and unhappy.

 

We really loved Singapore but it intimidates me since I pretty much stink at teaching math. We were going to go with TT or MUS but then I got nervous that I would be selling my ds short with a program that doesn't challenge him enough. But since I haven't used those curriculums perhaps they are challenging enough?

 

So my question is are there any middle ground pre-algebra curriculums that are challenging but not overwhelming for a non-mathy teacher? :) We want something user friendly. We are traveling fulltime so I can't use anything that needs a consistent internet connection. What do other non-mathy teachers use?

 

Thanks so much!

 

Why not try the TT and MUS samples on their websites and see not only what you think, but also what your son thinks.

 

TT did not work for mine because while he thought it was fun, he spent his time mostly manipulating the cartoons, not doing math. And he also did not like to consider the explanations given, so the whole math part was lost on him. MUS worked well for us last year (at a lower level). It allows accelerating, so the complaint that it only takes 40 minutes a week need not be true, if one simply goes as far as one can in a given time per day--in other words, don't plan for prealgebra to take a year. It sometimes has odd ways of doing things, and fits certain types of learners more than others (visual and tactile). MUS introduced some algebra ideas early, so my son is comfortable with solving for unknowns already, and already used to some of the notation. We left MUS for MM5 this year, but are near the end of it, thus also seeking what will be next.

 

To TT and MUS, I would add Chalk Dust to your consideration. It has DVD's rather than internet and has teacher support. It might be the middle level you are looking for.

[nomadicmama]

Just wanted to say THANK YOU for all the responses. I was feeling very overwhelmed and sad but your words, not only helped me find some other optons, but encouraged me as well.

 

My son and I spent 2 hours online watching and/or reading sample chapters from all the curriculums mentioned (at least all the ones that had samples available). This is the first time I have let him be a part of the curriculum decision making process. He decided he wanted to try LOF so I bought the fraction book to start. He already does Kahn and really enjoys it so I'm hoping between the two he will learn/enjoy math and I can stay sane. If not we'll try something else...

 

Thanks again!

[nomadicmama]

Why not try the TT and MUS samples on their websites and see not only what you think, but also what your son thinks.

 

You responded as I was writing a response. That's what we did! I have NO IDEA why I didn't considered that before today. Sometimes common sense eludes me. :blush:

[Pen]

You responded as I was writing a response. That's what we did! ...

 

Great! Let us know how LOF goes!

[HollyDay]

I like Horizon Pre-Algebra. We used Saxon 1/2 with my oldest but I do prefer the style of Horizon better with my youngest. Horizon uses formulas quite a bit and makes the concepts seem less complicated.

 

If you know what you want to use for algebra, I would suggest using that company's pre-algebra. That way, you should have a fairly smooth transition.

 

Lial's is supposed to have a good pre-algebra program. I've not used it. But, I am using their pre-calculus with my oldest and I'm very impressed. Youngest will use Lial's Intro to Algebra when she completes Horizon pre-algebra.

[thebacabunch]

I love LOF! I work through them myself before i use them with my dd12. She is nearing the end of fractions and i am in the pre-algebra with biology book. We also do Singapore and it is a lot easier for dd because we do fred. I can teach her better because I am re-learning it myself.

[nomadicmama]

I love LOF! I work through them myself before i use them with my dd12. She is nearing the end of fractions and i am in the pre-algebra with biology book. We also do Singapore and it is a lot easier for dd because we do fred. I can teach her better because I am re-learning it myself.

 

What Singapore books are you using with LOF? Would you mind telling me how you structure your math? How much does she do a day? How do you put the two together? Do you use LOF as a supplement? My son enjoyed Singapore but it was just too hard for me. After reading your reply I'm thinking if I read ahead like you do in LOF I might be ok and we could incorporate some Singapore.

[yvonne]

"Dolciani's Prealgebra, An Accelerated Course is very straightforward, not as hard as AoPS, but nice and solid. And cheap. Answers to the odds are in the back (which is all you'd need). Direct instruction."

 

:iagree: We just started using this and it is very straightforward w/ plenty of practice.

[suzielou]

MY DS11 was using Algebra 1/2 with Saxon and while he was acing the tests, I was spend a couple of hours a day going over math with him. I had turned up my nose at MUS for years, but decided to give it a try when I had to have heart surgery. He is finishing up their Pre-Algebra book before Christmas and will start Algebra I in January. The honors lessons really make the course! He has enjoyed it and even had several "a-ha" moments about stuff he had previously learned. I asked him today which one he liked better and it was MUS hands down. There was one honors problem that took him half the day to solve. I showed it to DH and he spent two hours reasoning it out, even after I showed him how it was 'supposed' to be worked.

[PeterPan]

MY DS11 was using Algebra 1/2 with Saxon and while he was acing the tests, I was spend a couple of hours a day going over math with him. I had turned up my nose at MUS for years, but decided to give it a try when I had to have heart surgery. He is finishing up their Pre-Algebra book before Christmas and will start Algebra I in January. The honors lessons really make the course! He has enjoyed it and even had several "a-ha" moments about stuff he had previously learned. I asked him today which one he liked better and it was MUS hands down. There was one honors problem that took him half the day to solve. I showed it to DH and he spent two hours reasoning it out, even after I showed him how it was 'supposed' to be worked.

 

That's cool! So just for our trivia, could you share this wowsers honors problem that took so long? I'd love to see what it's like. :)

[Chrysalis Academy]

I love LOF! I work through them myself before i use them with my dd12. She is nearing the end of fractions and i am in the pre-algebra with biology book. We also do Singapore and it is a lot easier for dd because we do fred. I can teach her better because I am re-learning it myself.

 

This is exactly what where we are at! Dd just started Decimals, and I'm doing Pre-Algebra, and darned if I'm not learning *so much* from it! I never really understood unit conversions, despite multiple math classes in college :glare:, and it is so refreshing to actually be understanding these things clearly now. I can't imagine trying to teach this stuff without going through it myself. I also find Khan Academy to be a great refresher, and I'm looking forward to going through AoPS PreAlgebra when I finish LOF.

[nomadicmama]

I just wanted to give a brief update and say THANK YOU!!! We've been using LOF and the Dolciani Pre-Algebra that was suggested with success. My son REALLY REALLY enjoys LOF. I let him do as much as he wants each day which usually turns out to be 1-3 chapters. Then he does Dolciani 2 or 3 times a week. He doesn't love the Dolciani but see the value in practice and learning from a traditional textbook. Anyway I wanted to say thank you to all of you for the advice and encouragement.

[arborite]

My 12-year-old son (started homeschooling this year, after 6th grade) likes Fred a lot. So do I, which is good, since I work through the books with him!

 

We started this fall by going through Fractions and Decimals, topics he already covered in school but which he said he hated. I wonder when he will figure out that anytime he says he "hates" a math topic, I will promptly find a (sneaky) way for him to do more of it? When LOF taught these topics, the kid loved them! We are now on Elementary Physics, and will do Pre-Algebra Bio next.

 

The only "flaw" of LOF is that it lacks drill that ds needs. I am a firm believer in learning math by doing lots of it. It's a language, after all! We supplement LOF with two resources:

 

1) We use Khan Academy if he gets stuck on a concept. I pick videos for him to watch and tell him to practice til the site says he has mastered it. This works really well for us, since when he is frustrated he gets testy with me and shuts down on my explanations. He never gets snarky with Khan. :glare:

 

2) I assign chapters from Saxon 7/8 each week, so he can read about concepts in another "language" and work through practice problems. Saxon 7/8 has very short chapters that teach a single method, but then drills on all the previous chapters. Getting challenged on his cumulative knowledge is what he needs, and Saxon provides it.

 

This combo is working well for us. We are also going to throw Zaccaro's Real World Algebra into the mix starting next week.

[Jeeves]

I think the people who slam TT so much (who haven't even USED it) really do others a disservice. We've used the TT pre-algebra and are now using the algebra 1. It would fit your criteria. No, it is not the most challenging thing out there. I resolved that in my own mind by doing TT and then adding in just the C level problems and Dominion Math (very challenging word problems) from the BJU math. (You could use stuff from Singapore, Dolciani, BJU, whatever for that.) That way math can get done every day and only a bit of it is mom-driven.

 

That's the combo that's working for us, and her test scores are fabulous. You can find all kinds of stories with any curriculum. If you want to try TT (or MUS), try it! Do it and at the end of the year do some standardized testing. I do it every year, and it's definitely helpful. If he needs more challenge, add in a little something. For us that baseline of math that gets done every day, without complaint or frustration, has been good.

 

...

 

So yeah, if you want to try TT, try it. It can be very good for the right child. Short lessons, lots of humor, spiral, easier context so they can just GET it and not be left at sea trying to float and paddle and desalinate water all at once. :D

 

 

 

OhElizabeth,

 

this really helped clarify my thinking on what to do next year! Thank you so much for sharing! I really couldn't see my 11 yo doing the "harder" pre-algebra texts, but I didn't want to "give in" to TT. I'm definitely going to try this combo with him!

 

(sorry to hijack the post! :) )

[Trish]

Have you looked into Horizon's pre-alg? I have not used it personally, but I have heard good things about it. (They used to have quite a few pages available for previewing.)

 

We used it last year and it was great.

[NittanyJen]

I have one more suggestion to add to this topic, since I'm always evaluating math books (an occupational hazard, as a tutor and wife of a math professor, and Mom of math exceptional kids, but one of whom has some learning roadblocks as well).

 

I like the math series by Tobey and Slater (the pre-algebra book lists Blair as first author, as well) quite a bit for a student who will benefit from the following presentation:

 

*very clear, not excessively wordy presentation

*lots of white space on the pages, an minimal use of color-- just a touch, and used well

*explanations supported by nice examples, followed by a couple of sample problems to try out that work just like the examples

*exercise sets look "just right" in terms of quantity-- there is plenty of practice there, but not such an overwhelming number of problems that the student will just wilt before they even start. (Anybody who needs more can still use Khan Academy).

*Quizzes, mini-quizzes, and tests included in the book

*Clear organization that is easy to follow

 

It can be found so cheaply second-hand on Amazon, that it is also a nice back-up volume to have on hand in case your main math program ends in a roadblock and you just need another point of view or additional practice problems.

 

It's a nice, friendly-looking, non-threatening math series that seems to teach pretty well.