Tried out a new church this past Sunday. Would you go back?

[JulieE]

I took my 9 & 7 yr old dd's with me this past Sunday to try out a new church. A megachurch. A Southern Baptist megachurch. I think this may very well be the 3rd strike as far as my mother is concerned (1. 8 kids 2. hs'ing 3. Baptist Megachurch). If I vote for Romney it would be instant shunning, but I'm straddling the line as it is ;)

 

Back to the point: It was a totally different experience for me: huge church, worship band, etc. But I like the sermon, and I like, at least on paper, the family and kids programs the church offers. I would like to try out Awana this year. They also have many other activities.

 

PROBLEM: I dropped the girls off in Sunday school. When I picked them up I could tell my 9 yr old dd was REALLY upset. She didn't want to talk until we were in the car away from everyone. She said the teachers in her class spent a good deal of time socializing in the hallway, and worse, their were girls in her class sitting right behind dd who were having "vivid" conversations about seeing private parts on adults :confused: DD did say their were other hs'ers in her class, and she met one girl who was really nice.

 

I had someone call from the church today to follow up with our visit. I didn't give (private part) specifics, but I did say that my dd was really upset.

 

Where would you fall? Under the 1) Run far far away and never go back category? Or, like my neighbor suggested, 2) Teach/give dd lifeskill tips for dealing with yuckiness like that with the assumption she will encounter it everywhere? Actually, this is the 1st time dd has encountered something like this, and she was shocked to the core, which I am thankful for - she knew it was very inappropriate, and has asked to return to our member church where the girls (albeit in income levels way higher than us, and many elitist, for lack of a better word in my mind) are much better behaved.

[Dory]

Being a large church community like that means that you are going to see some wild parenting, some personalities that you can't stand, and some kids that your kids hate. I think it just comes with the territory. If your daughter was able to meet one person she liked on the first Sunday, and you enjoyed the sermon, I would give it a couple more tries before I would consider scratching it off the list. As for the kids that saw private parts, I would be seriously, seriously concerned as to what's happening in those homes. Just because they go to church, doesn't mean they're a healthy family.

[sunflowerlady]

There is an option 3. Go back to this church and take you dd's into church service with you and worship as a family.

 

Ok, I see it was during Sunday school. You could skip Sunday school and just go to Sunday church services and do option 3. :grouphug:

[QuirkyKapers]

How did they respond when you indicated your dd was upset?

[LaxMom]

No. I think there is such a thing as "too big", where the crowd is so big there is a certain level of anonymity that happens, which leads to things like this. I don't know... The "perceived level of personal accountability", if you will.

 

Not learning about "parts" and "acts" at an inappropriate age on the school bus is reason #354 that we homeschool. I would be absolutely livid if that conversation was happening because of shoddy supervision in a setting dedicated to spiritual formation. Livid.

 

And I'm one of the flag-flying liberals on the board, so...

[HeidiKC]

I think I'd be more concerned about the amount of time the teachers spent talking in the hallway (ignoring the kids) than I would be about any topic of conversation in the classroom. Because none of those conversations would be happening if the teachers were in the classrooms doing their jobs.

 

Also, I'd DEFINITELY give details to the person that called you from church. They are trying to make sure potential new members are happy, and you aren't doing them any favors by not telling them what happened. Again, please tell them the teachers weren't in the classrooms but in the hallways chatting.

 

I don't think I'd worry too much about what those girls were saying. But I'm not sure what it is exactly that they were saying - they saw adults' privates parts???? Another thing I'd mention to the church phone call person. I don't think it was so odd that they were discussing it, but that they potentially saw something somewhere? This is rather concerning, I'd say.

 

No advice about whether to stay or go, but it sounds like it is going to be hard for your daughter to feel good about it!

[JulieE]

He said he was going to speak with the Sunday school teachers, and suggested if I bring dd back that I say something as well. Yes, ideally dd would have popped out of her chair and went to the teacher,or called out the other girls, but, as the man on the phone even said, most adults might have a hard time doing that.

How did they respond when you indicated your dd was upset?

[marbel]

If you really liked everything else, I'd go back to the church but skip Sunday School. I'd be kind but candid with the person who called to follow up. They should want to know what impression visitors are getting of their church. If in a few weeks you're still going, and your kids like the rest of it, try SS again.

 

Some churches I've been to have "regular" SS teachers during the school year, but give them the summer off and strong-arm others into doing it for a short time. So maybe your kids saw summer substitutes. (Of course I am not saying all churches and all summer SS teachers have to be strong-armed into teaching.)

[meena]

I would be contacting the children's pastor immediately--not as much because of the inappropriate conversation among children (like Dory mentioned, there are people with all different kinds of home lives and standards especially in a large church). My concern is that the teachers weren't doing their job and presumably because of that, inappropriate topics were not being reined in as they should have been.

 

FWIW, we go to a Southern Baptist megachurch and the teachers are very engaged with the students. If they were using Sunday School as their own social hour, we would definitely be considering a different church.

[Harriet Vane]

I would be contacting the children's pastor immediately--not as much because of the inappropriate conversation among children (like Dory mentioned, there are people with all different kinds of home lives and standards especially in a large church). My concern is that the teachers weren't doing their job and presumably because of that, inappropriate topics were not being reined in as they should have been.

 

. . . If they were using Sunday School as their own social hour, we would definitely be considering a different church.

 

:iagree:

 

I have directed many children's programs over the years. Teachers should not be out in the hall, ever. As long as there are kids in the classroom, the teachers should be there, engaged and focused.

 

I would also question how many adults per child there were. That's my largest concern with a big crowd.

[mama2cntrykids]

I agree with the poster's that said skip SS for a few weeks and go from there. We go to a Baptist church (don't know the difference between it and a SB church though). It's not a megachurch either. We have about 120 regular attendees.

 

My kids would have been very uncomfortable with kids talking like that too. Yuck!

[jenbrdsly]

Okay, my reaction might be a little different but I am a former ps teacher which means (when employed) I am a mandated reporter. If a fourth grader is talking about seeing an adult's private parts that is a HUGE RED FLAG and should result in an immediate call to Child Protective Services!!! Childcare workers at a church are also mandated reporters. The church itself should have special insurance set up to protect the mandated reporter making the call.

If the church knows about the conversation this little girl was having and does not report it to the authorities, then the church is breaking the law. Period. It is up to the CPS to investigate, not the church.

The only way I would go back to a church like that is if they could give me an immediate copy of their policy and procedures for protecting children's safety, including their rules for mandated reporting. Our United Methodist church has this, and all childcare workers receive training, even volunteers.

[Just Beachy]

If you enjoyed other aspects of the church, I would give it another chance. It could be that the socializing by the SS teachers is not the norm and you just caught them on a bad day. Maybe one of the teachers is going through some stuff and just needed to talk for a couple of minutes. Maybe she had just gotten some bad news. Who knows?

 

If you enjoyed other parts of it, I wouldn't give up on it because a teacher may have been having a rough morning. As others have mentioned, too. You could skip SS for awhile and just attend the worship service. Your dd could either attend children's worship or stay in the regular worship with you.

 

(I attend a SB church, so I am working under the assumption that SS is not the same as children's worship and the 2 are led by different people. If that is not the case, then disregard what I said and keep your dd with you.)

 

:) Beachy

[justamouse]

There is an option 3. Go back to this church and take you dd's into church service with you and worship as a family.

 

Ok, I see it was during Sunday school. You could skip Sunday school and just go to Sunday church services and do option 3. :grouphug:

 

:iagree:

[Ellie]

Okay, my reaction might be a little different but I am a former ps teacher which means (when employed) I am a mandated reporter. If a fourth grader is talking about seeing an adult's private parts that is a HUGE RED FLAG and should result in an immediate call to Child Protective Services!!! Childcare workers at a church are also mandated reporters. The church itself should have special insurance set up to protect the mandated reporter making the call.

 

If the church knows about the conversation this little girl was having and does not report it to the authorities, then the church is breaking the law. Period. It is up to the CPS to investigate, not the church.

 

 

The only way I would go back to a church like that is if they could give me an immediate copy of their policy and procedures for protecting children's safety, including their rules for mandated reporting. Our United Methodist church has this, and all childcare workers receive training, even volunteers.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Terabith]

Okay, my reaction might be a little different but I am a former ps teacher which means (when employed) I am a mandated reporter. If a fourth grader is talking about seeing an adult's private parts that is a HUGE RED FLAG and should result in an immediate call to Child Protective Services!!! Childcare workers at a church are also mandated reporters. The church itself should have special insurance set up to protect the mandated reporter making the call.

If the church knows about the conversation this little girl was having and does not report it to the authorities, then the church is breaking the law. Period. It is up to the CPS to investigate, not the church.

The only way I would go back to a church like that is if they could give me an immediate copy of their policy and procedures for protecting children's safety, including their rules for mandated reporting. Our United Methodist church has this, and all childcare workers receive training, even volunteers.

 

Really? I mean, my 7 and 8 yr olds see us unclothed fairly regularly. I mean, my 7 yr old sleeps in the room with my husband and me. They see us in various states of undress, coming out of the shower, and have no qualms of walking in on us in the bathroom. And genitalia is an area of huge fascination for girls on the verge of puberty. I know my kids love to look at the (drawn) illustrations of naked bodies of various ages in our copy of It's Not the Stork. It's not a topic that's appropriate to have in Sunday School, but I certainly don't think that it's something that would provoke a call to CPS.

[milovany]

It's not a topic that's appropriate to have in Sunday School, but I certainly don't think that it's something that would provoke a call to CPS.

 

:iagree:

[russiantwins]

I think I'd be more concerned about the amount of time the teachers spent talking in the hallway (ignoring the kids) than I would be about any topic of conversation in the classroom. Because none of those conversations would be happening if the teachers were in the classrooms doing their jobs.

 

Also, I'd DEFINITELY give details to the person that called you from church. They are trying to make sure potential new members are happy, and you aren't doing them any favors by not telling them what happened. Again, please tell them the teachers weren't in the classrooms but in the hallways chatting.

 

I don't think I'd worry too much about what those girls were saying. But I'm not sure what it is exactly that they were saying - they saw adults' privates parts???? Another thing I'd mention to the church phone call person. I don't think it was so odd that they were discussing it, but that they potentially saw something somewhere? This is rather concerning, I'd say.

 

No advice about whether to stay or go, but it sounds like it is going to be hard for your daughter to feel good about it!

 

what she said!

[JVA]

I would be contacting the children's pastor immediately--not as much because of the inappropriate conversation among children (like Dory mentioned, there are people with all different kinds of home lives and standards especially in a large church). My concern is that the teachers weren't doing their job and presumably because of that, inappropriate topics were not being reined in as they should have been.

 

FWIW, we go to a Southern Baptist megachurch and the teachers are very engaged with the students. If they were using Sunday School as their own social hour, we would definitely be considering a different church.

 

:iagree::iagree: We're in a similar kind of church. The problem with that class sounds like poor teaching/leading. I'd call the Childrens' ministry director and give her all the info you have. It wouldn't be allowed at our church. I'm a MOPS mentor and we know that if people's kids are not well cared for, safe and the place is sanitary, parents are not going to leave them there. And therefore, NOT COME. Summertime at our church is when a lot of 'new' and inexperienced folks are in classes to give the regular teachers some time off. Perhaps, that might explain their behavior. Give it another try and by having spoken to the Director, I'm sure your daughter's visit will be much better. Those teachers will either be gone or ON NOTICE. I hope it goes better.

[lionfamily1999]

About the two girls... we have gone to our church for four years now. Last month ds overheard two boys talking about b00ks and some women at church. The boys visit our church often, but they are not members and they do not attend with their families. This puts the teachers in a difficult position. That could be the case with the girls your dd overheard. If you knew their names at least the teachers would know to keep an eye on them.

 

I would go back. Megachurches have some advantages over smaller congregations. At least try one more time to see if your issue was dealt with :)

[godsaggie]

I go to a southern Baptist church. It's family integrated. We don't do Sunday School...and have no desire to do so. SBC churches are autonomous...meaning that they have all the leadership decisions based in the church itself (rather than someone at the state conference dictating things.) So, everything in a church varies with each congregation. I've been in SBC churches that I was stunned to know that they were even Baptist!

 

FWIW...I would try it again w/out going to SS. I would have a serious discussion with SS teachers before allowing my dc to go. And if you do let them go, stick around and see what is going on for yourself (hide around the corner!) :001_smile:

[jewellsmommy]

Now that you have spoken to someone, I would give it a second chance. However, I would tell the SS teacher that if your dd needs you for any reason to please have someone come and get you. You don't need to specify why. Then tell your dd that if something like that happens again to tell the teacher that she needs you. Encourage your dd to try and meet some of the other kids in the class. If your dd still has a bad experience, then you can make your decision.

 

There is this strange idea that all people in a church are going to speak or act a certain way. A church is like a hospital and there are going to be some unhealthy people there. If all the people at a church are the core, in-crowd, been-a-christian-forever, then I would question the focus and effectiveness of that church. There is no way to know (for you) what was up with some of those girls. Now that does not excuse a lack of control on the SS teacher's part. The teacher should have been on top of that nonsense. If you can't trust the staff with the sanctity and safety of your children, that is a whole different problem.

 

I hope your dd's experience improves. :001_smile:

[Ellie]

Really? I mean, my 7 and 8 yr olds see us unclothed fairly regularly.

:blink:

 

I mean, my 7 yr old sleeps in the room with my husband and me. They see us in various states of undress, coming out of the shower, and have no qualms of walking in on us in the bathroom.

:blink:

 

 

And genitalia is an area of huge fascination for girls on the verge of puberty. I know my kids love to look at the (drawn) illustrations of naked bodies of various ages in our copy of It's Not the Stork.

:blink:

 

It's not a topic that's appropriate to have in Sunday School, but I certainly don't think that it's something that would provoke a call to CPS.

Maybe not a call to CPS, but still...I'd be concerned, because experience has shown that yes, children who discuss adult genitalia like that have more personal knowledge than looking at illustrations in books their parents allow them to read.

[Caitilin]

No. I think there is such a thing as "too big", where the crowd is so big there is a certain level of anonymity that happens, which leads to things like this. I don't know... The "perceived level of personal accountability", if you will.

 

Not learning about "parts" and "acts" at an inappropriate age on the school bus is reason #354 that we homeschool. I would be absolutely livid if that conversation was happening because of shoddy supervision in a setting dedicated to spiritual formation. Livid.

 

And I'm one of the flag-flying liberals on the board, so...

 

:iagree:Completely.

[jenbrdsly]

Really? I mean, my 7 and 8 yr olds see us unclothed fairly regularly. I mean, my 7 yr old sleeps in the room with my husband and me. They see us in various states of undress, coming out of the shower, and have no qualms of walking in on us in the bathroom. And genitalia is an area of huge fascination for girls on the verge of puberty. I know my kids love to look at the (drawn) illustrations of naked bodies of various ages in our copy of It's Not the Stork. It's not a topic that's appropriate to have in Sunday School, but I certainly don't think that it's something that would provoke a call to CPS.

 

 

I've been trained about mandated reporting many times. The way it worked in CA, was there was very little wiggle room. You hear something weird, you report it. Period. Let CPS investigate.

 

God forbid, but imagine this:

 

Setting: An loosely supervised Sunday school at a Mega Church.

 

Kid #1 who is coming from a horrible Penn State-like situation: "So, I had to see this guy's private parts. Have you ever seen anything like that?"

 

Kid #2 who comes from a nice family like Terabith's and is remembering having read It's Not the Stork with her mom: "Yes. I've seen an adult's private parts."

 

Kid #1: "Oh. So it's not a big deal?"

 

Kid #2: "Not, it's not."

 

Kid #1: “Oh.â€

 

:crying:

 

That's why a mandated reporter who hears that a conversation took place regarding a 9-year-old seeing adult body parts would be compelled by law to report this incident to CPS. Unless the adult in charge heard the conversation take place and could verify that it was harmless, then you would HAVE to report it. Schools and churches of all places should take this seriously.

[Terabith]

:blink:

 

 

:blink:

 

 

 

:blink:

 

 

Maybe not a call to CPS, but still...I'd be concerned, because experience has shown that yes, children who discuss adult genitalia like that have more personal knowledge than looking at illustrations in books their parents allow them to read.

 

I'm not sure what the bulging eyes/ blink emoticon means here? Sorry....

[3browneyedboys4me]

I didn't read the other replies so pls forgive me if this is redundant.

 

I would absolutely not go back. The conversations with the children would be enough to make me walk. However, the teachers leaving the class and not 'teaching' would be a big problem too. Your dc are old enough to be engaged and learning something in their class. I would simply follow up with the church (if you want) and let them know about the situations that bothered you. Hopefully, they will investigate and try to offer some more supervision in the classrooms.

 

You certainly can't change the conduct of children and what they are learning from home, but I do think that a LOT of that can be minimized if the children are fully engaged and not having too much social time on their own.

 

:grouphug:

[SkateLeft]

Okay, my reaction might be a little different but I am a former ps teacher which means (when employed) I am a mandated reporter. If a fourth grader is talking about seeing an adult's private parts that is a HUGE RED FLAG and should result in an immediate call to Child Protective Services!!!

 

Honestly, that was my reaction too. I wouldn't call CPS, but there is no way I'd take my kids anywhere near that church after that.

 

Glad to see I wasn't the only one thinking that was a huge red flag.