LucyStoner Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) I'm not sure why so many seem to think this will be badly built. Small, yes. badly built, no. As I stated a couple of times up thread we have plans for the building after the house is built. I'd like it to last to my death. What about this? It is bigger by just a bit 24x20 instead of 15x20. Still no running water unless we can have a well dug cheap. I can see living in a tiny place with a wood pellet stove, even in the snow. Heck, my brother heats his whole suburban 4 br 2 story house with a pellet stove all winter. But building something like the plans you linked (which I love and might use at some point) is more expensive than a used travel trailer unless you have a line on free materials or something. Are you planning to chop your own wood or something? Wood, concrete, roofing, insulation and some sort of wood sealant or paint costs a pretty penny these days. Edited June 13, 2012 by kijipt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 No. I wouldn't...not for anything. A pellet stove in a cold winter....in a shelter without insulation, etc. Nope. Never. We did it in a trailer...with a wood stove. I was young...in my 20's and strong as a horse. It was awful....and I am not one to shirk work or stiffen at adventure. It was downright scary when your water bucket freezes solid and your baby is sleeping in a full snowsuit in the sleeve of an extra parka. It would be insulated. Right now we have 2000 sq. ft heated by nothing but a pellet stove. And it was built in 1890 so all the newspaper has disintegrated. This house has less insulation than the shelter/building/cottage/whatever will have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 Another thought...are you building it yourselves? Have you built similar things before or have experience building? I wouldn't want to experiment with my building skills with snow creeping in on the horizon. Yes. And I have a pro that does consultant work so I'm not worried about running into problems. I can either hire the pro to teach us or to do it for us (a little along). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobela Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Container homes can be permanent and lovely. They could make a great storage unit later one. Look at these ideas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 Chucki, I alluded in a post that I once lived in a converted school bus. I was 11, an only child and in PS, and even though my friends were completely freaked by the fact that I lived in a bus, I LOVED IT! Did I mention it was unfinished when we got it? I remember laying a sewage line with my mother, looking for appropriate low areas and drainage, building a deck out of pallets and particle board. We cleared the land ourselves, stacked the trees, eventually dug a pond right under the city inspector's nose, put in rustic chicken coops, layed fencing for my first horse. Heck I remember when we got our first power pole and meter. It was a magical time. Eventually we built our dream house there. I was given a say in what was most important to me. I will be honest and say it was not a smooth transition. My mother ended up having another child and we ended up in a rental again for a season. It was not as cold a climate as you are describing, but it was a lot wetter which has challenges all it's own. Is there anything stopping you from going back to a small rental if the going gets to rough? It would slow you down, but it is an option. Just thought I would share a bit of what it was like for me and how few regrets I have. I do not know your dd, but not all kids would be miserable snowbound for a season. :D Thanks. :grouphug: I think dd would think it was an adventure. Her friends would certainly think it was cool. All three of them homeschool and homestead in one way or another. Their parents already have houses built though. The sisters' parents' bought an old burned out farmhouse about 6 years ago. They were about 6 at the time. They lived in that burned out farmhouse while their dad worked full time and gutted then remodeled. I think they would all think it is perfectly normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 I think I understand now. I don't think I'd do it with my family (live in such a small space), but if you all can get along over the winter, then it might be worth it. I think you'd just have to plan the house layout well so that whatever you build now could be successfully integrated into the larger house later, and if it would eventually be plumbed, get all that in place during building, even if you won't have running water yet. Actually instead of integrating it into a larger structure we want to use it as an outbuilding/pool house/exercise area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 We actually spent almost 4 years without drinkable running water. One could not drink the water in ____. AZ so it had to be brought in or one had to have a RO unit. Then we moved from there to MT and the water was yellow. We couldn't drink that either. I swear it is the four years of washing in bad water that led to my auto immune diseases. Bringing in water is really nothing new for us. We lived for a short time in an area where you couldn't drink the water. I would drive to my mother's, an hour away, to shower and bathe dd. It was scary knowing she could become ill from drinking it, that was (imo) far worse than living without running water. Have you considered a yurt? (I haven't read through all bazillion pages, so I may be redundant here) We almost got a yurt once :) Those are very neat. Actually instead of integrating it into a larger structure we want to use it as an outbuilding/pool house/exercise area. Good idea. From what else you have written I would switch my 'other' to a 'go.' This sounds like a winter of memories :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 (edited) We don't have the money up front. It would be a pay as you go deal. We'd be buying materials roughly every two weeks. Have you priced just the foundation, framing/exterior walls, weather proof wrapping and roof? Those can be very expensive expediatures. If you are wanting to do it debt free, I applaud you! Getting the foundation in would be the first step. Our back patio was $3000 just in concrete. Dh's bff is a contractor so it wasn't an inflated amount. Framed, delivered/pumped, stamped/stained was all extra. You may want to check out what the foundation requirements are for a house like that, get the square footage of concrete needed and call around for an estimate including delivery/cleanup. Then I would want to have at least enough saved to completely finish the basic structure to the elements. I would not want to get the walls partially up (no roof) and then have a rainy summer leave me with a house full of mold as I saved money for the roof. Another consideration with the tiny floor plans, is the specialty appliances/sinks/showers etc that usually are used. Make sure that if you do go this route, you have a house big enough to fit the standard size items. A two burner stove, can cost more than a four burner. A small profile fridge, is often a special order size and you will pay extra for that. If you don't need and oven, maybe a hot plate will do, but they aren't great to cook on and rarely get hot enough. A mini fridge may work since it will be winter, if you don't need a freezer. But they aren't easy to get a gallon of milk into and even things like katchup need to be in smaller, more expensive bottles. By the way, I am not totally without experience with this. I lived in a 12ft camp trailer for the better part of a year at 11yo with my parents and sister, in Colorado and then Gillette, Wyoming. (not known for being warm in the winter LOL). We had a hose for water. Propane tank for heat/stove and walked to the community bathhouse for toilettes and showers. I wouldn't do it now, with an injured back and dd5.....but if I was still uninjured and it was DD13, I would consider it......if I had at least a hose for running water. LOL If I had a mini house, sure no problem. If things really get bad, you could always go back to renting, it would just cost you more than if you stayed put. :0( We used to have a 50gallon reef tank and I had to schlep water for that all the time. I sold the tank when dd5 came along. I have never, ever missed moving water around for that tank.....and that was just down the hallway. LOL Edited June 14, 2012 by Tap, tap, tap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RanchGirl Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 you know, I think I might do it IF you could get a better water system. Could you rent a big tank? Don't a lot of farms have those mini water towers? I am voting yes with the following caveats... (a) livable structure and composting toilet comes together over the summer (b) 2x the amount of wood you might possible need, chopped and ready for heating © dd is fully on board (d) you have enough room on your credit card to handle an out and out emergency (e) it's legal and you're not worried about zoning or social worker issues (f) water of some kind or a gym membership - see below. (g) homeschooling -- since I'm assuming daily life tasks will take up more of your time than usual, is your dd at a place where this won't hurt her academic schedule, can work somewhat independently? Will she have a place where she can study? (h) insurance -- can you get owner's insurance? if there is a fire or other disaster and you have no insurance, how will you recover? If you absolutely can't get water there, is there a gym nearby you could join? I couldn't live without a shower -- even a cold shower -- a couple times a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelotmom Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Another consideration with the tiny floor plans, is the specialty appliances/sinks/showers etc that usually are used. Make sure that if you do go this route, you have a house big enough to fit the standard size items. A two burner stove, can cost more than a four burner. A small profile fridge, is often a special order size and you will pay extra for that. If you don't need and oven, maybe a hot plate will do, but they aren't great to cook on and rarely get hot enough. A mini fridge may work since it will be winter, if you don't need a freezer. But they aren't easy to get a gallon of milk into and even things like katchup need to be in smaller, more expensive bottles. If this is intended to be a living space just for the winter, I don't see reason to invest much in special appliances. You can do a lot with a crock pot, toaster/convection oven, and coffeemaker, none of which are expensive at all, and the pellet stove may be usable for cooking (stovetop) as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Chucki the plans for that 20 x 24 look awesome!!! I think your family could easily live in something like that, or even a slightly smaller version, comfortably, for quite a while. If something like that is the goal, and you could have the exterior complete before the winter weather, it could work. If not paying rent would make it possible to build it that much more quickly, then I'd even be for getting out of your lease now - or as soon as the property is officially yours - and tenting there while you work on your cottage. If you can stop paying rent soon, then maybe that money could also go towards drilling a well. Even if you put in a rather shallow one that would only be for washing, and you'd still have to bring in drinking water, that would be a help. Then you could later use that well for watering your garden, washing the car, etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Well I did something similar, except we don't have any snow. We lived for 1 year in a pop up caravan ( just larger than a tent) that someone threw out ( canvas sides did have some large rips). We then rented a real dump for 1 year. We then shifted into our almost completed house, minus electricity. We had no electricity for 2 years ( as we saved up for it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 (edited) you know, I think I might do it IF you could get a better water system. Could you rent a big tank? Don't a lot of farms have those mini water towers? I am voting yes with the following caveats... (a) livable structure and composting toilet comes together over the summer (b) 2x the amount of wood you might possible need, chopped and ready for heating © dd is fully on board (d) you have enough room on your credit card to handle an out and out emergency (e) it's legal and you're not worried about zoning or social worker issues (f) water of some kind or a gym membership - see below. (g) homeschooling -- since I'm assuming daily life tasks will take up more of your time than usual, is your dd at a place where this won't hurt her academic schedule, can work somewhat independently? Will she have a place where she can study? (h) insurance -- can you get owner's insurance? if there is a fire or other disaster and you have no insurance, how will you recover? If you absolutely can't get water there, is there a gym nearby you could join? I couldn't live without a shower -- even a cold shower -- a couple times a week. :iagree: I think those are great questions. The finance part scares me. I wouldn't want to go into this without an emergency fund of some kind. We've needed ours far too often and it seems things always go wrong at the worst time, like car repairs, expensive house repairs or medical bills. House building itself is always rife with the unexpected. My brother builds houses for living and still ended up over budget last year. Right from the start they ended up needing way more gravel then they thought just to make a usable driveway, then his basement guy, who they had used many, many times before building houses for other people flaked out and they had to hire someone else for significantly more. Those and a few more things ended up costing him 20k more right off the bat. They've built hundreds of houses, everything was figured and such, but there are always unexpected things. I'm also concerned because it was my understanding that your condition made it impossible to go outside when it is really cold, let alone work. That worries me about the water factor and just general homesteading tasks. I'd also be concerned that the amount of work is too much for one person. Especially as from the way you talked you don't have experience, when you don't know what you are doing things take longer and when your not 100% they take longer as well. I'm not opposed to living w/out water, septic or electricity though. In general I think we are spoiled. I don't think it is dangerous or bad for kids(obviously assuming you are aware of and practice good sanitation- which I think is more than possible in that situation). I don't think it warrants involvement by CPS, state, etc. I think it is none of their business. I do think it sounds like a great adventure. I am however risk averse, more so than I am wasting money averse. I would absolutely loathe paying rent at all, I really, really get that(as I think my posts indicate we hate debt with a passion). But it would also scare the crap out of me not to have a good efund in place when going into something like that. I'm also concerned about your health as well, as to whether or not it is feasible. I couldn't just jump into it before checking all those concerns off of the list and having at least a small efund and ample buffer room in your budget for the building. Edited June 14, 2012 by soror Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Honestly, if the structure is sound...and well insulated, if dd is on board & if you have some way to get water and keep relatively warm...I might reconsider. I am not really big on having to have electric....and if you plan on using the structure A's an outbuilding later, making it nice and sound would be a priority....well, sounds like it could be an adventure. My negativity comes from my own experience as a young adult with a new baby....and being so cold and tired from the experience it left a bad sense in me. We had running water, but it was frozen much of the time. We had electric too, but limited in how we could use it ( small fuses) However, we did build our house....with central heating and the amenities and no debt.....so, there you go. I think the biggest issue I had was we had no other safety net...no way to turn tail and head home....that WAS home! I am not one to squash dreams or quabash a go gettum attitude. If this is something you want to do as a family....go for it. Just be sure you plan well enough and you know what you are walking into. Good luck, Faithe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted June 14, 2012 Author Share Posted June 14, 2012 Thanks everyone. I'll let you all know what we decide to do after we close on the property next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted June 14, 2012 Author Share Posted June 14, 2012 If this is intended to be a living space just for the winter, I don't see reason to invest much in special appliances. You can do a lot with a crock pot, toaster/convection oven, and coffeemaker, none of which are expensive at all, and the pellet stove may be usable for cooking (stovetop) as well. If it ends up as a guest house then we might want a small fridge in there. but that would be for later. We could get by with Mother Nature and a cooler (and crock pot) for the winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 I wouldn't even think about it. Wait til spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted June 14, 2012 Author Share Posted June 14, 2012 Chucki the plans for that 20 x 24 look awesome!!! I think your family could easily live in something like that' date=' or even a slightly smaller version, comfortably, for quite a while. If something like that is the goal, and you could have the exterior complete before the winter weather, it could work. If not paying rent would make it possible to build it that much more quickly, then I'd even be for getting out of your lease now - or as soon as the property is officially yours - and tenting there while you work on your cottage. If you can stop paying rent soon, then maybe that money could also go towards drilling a well. Even if you put in a rather shallow one that would only be for washing, and you'd still have to bring in drinking water, that would be a help. Then you could later use that well for watering your garden, washing the car, etc..[/quote']We don't have a lease. We never renewed. So getting out of this house would be as easy as 30 days notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaners Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 If it ends up as a guest house then we might want a small fridge in there. but that would be for later. We could get by with Mother Nature and a cooler (and crock pot) for the winter. Are you planning on finishing your big house over the winter then, or would you still be living in the small house and building next summer? I would assume you wouldn't be able to do a foundation on a bigger house with the temperatures in the winter, but I'm really not familiar enough with the area to know that for sure. If you don't get the bigger house finished in time, are you planning on spending the next winter in the small house again or in the unfinished bigger house? (With our family, I would be planning on at least 3 years in the small house. I still don't have the chicken pen I was promised "within a week" when we moved in to this place a few months ago. :lol: ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted June 14, 2012 Author Share Posted June 14, 2012 Are you planning on finishing your big house over the winter then, or would you still be living in the small house and building next summer? I would assume you wouldn't be able to do a foundation on a bigger house with the temperatures in the winter, but I'm really not familiar enough with the area to know that for sure. If you don't get the bigger house finished in time, are you planning on spending the next winter in the small house again or in the unfinished bigger house? (With our family, I would be planning on at least 3 years in the small house. I still don't have the chicken pen I was promised "within a week" when we moved in to this place a few months ago. :lol: ) We would be living in the small house over the winter. Next spring we would break ground for the bigger house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Y'know, the more you clarify and talk about it, the more reasonable it seems. I think I'd still wait until next spring, tho, because you could get a faster start on the main house when the weather is warmer. What I mean is, build the little house, live in it next year while you are building the big house, then move when the big house is liveable, even if it's not finished. Does that make sense? Or is the alternative to rent as you are now and start building the big house, and then move directly into it? I am not clear. But it doesn't matter and you don't have to answer... IDK--but thanks for sharing your dilemma, and giving us fun discussions. I think some of us (not all) are a bit envious of your adventurous spirit! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justasque Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 I think the general idea of living in the small house while building the big one is a good strategy. I've known a few people who took this route. However, I think the best way to look at the timeline is to simply move into the small house when it is ready, and not focus on the particular date or season except of course to be sure it's ready for that season. You have a month-to-month lease, so there's no drop-dead day you have to move. Decide what you want at the end of the process, figure out how the small house fits into that, and begin to build. As soon as it is livable, move in. Of course, there are different ideas about what "livable" would include - you'll have to decide for yourself what that means. The building schedule will dictate some of that also. For example, you probably need to insulate before hanging drywall, lay sewer lines before pouring the foundation, or whatever. Your ultimate plans for the small house (will it have water?) will play a role here. If you keep the small house very simple (and very small!), it shouldn't take forever to build. Decide as part of your planning what needs to be in place before moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 We don't have a lease. We never renewed. So getting out of this house would be as easy as 30 days notice. Awesome!!! This is sounding more doable with each post. :001_smile: Regarding the refrigeration, if you do decide to tent camp soon, I'd definitely get at least a 2.5 cf refrigerator. If you can go a bit bigger, it would save money in fuel as you'd need to shop more often. The 2.5s are about $100 and you may be able to find a larger used one for just a bit more. Between money for ice and more fuel, that $100 will be offset rather quickly, and the convenience can't be beat. :) Ideal would be if you could have two tents - one for sleeping quarters and one for using during the day - cooking prep, schooling, etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnitWit Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 I agree that the more info you share, the more doable it sounds. I wish you the BEST in this adventure. :) Maybe you will have an incredibly mild winter...maybe? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 I haven't read the entire thread but I am fondly remembering the 6 months (June-Dec) we spent in a house with no running water when I was about 11. My brother was 7 and our mom was a single mom. She was young strong and healthy....we had wood heat, a well out front and an outhouse. The house was just 4 rooms...with a big back porch where we had a tub where we took baths with water hauled in and heated. When winter came we moved the tub into the kitchen. My mom had had a terrible time finding us suitable housing....one we moved out of almost immediately because it was infested with roaches...another had a plumbing problem that the landlord wouldn't fix (as soon as we moved out he sold the house/land to a bank and it was bulldozed so I figure that was his plan/design). So anyway, the little house with no running water was CLEAN and we loved it. It sat in the middle of a big cow pasture with a chain link fence around it to keep the cows out...we called/call it 'The Little House on the Prairie'. Dh and I will probably do something similar when we sell our house. We want to be free and clear and hope to have enough cash to buy land and at least get a house 'in the dry' and live there while we finish it. I never thought I would do that but the lure of being free of a mortgage is too appealing to me. :) Your cold winter worries me some.....but I am assuming from the posts toward the end of the thread you have a good plan in place for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.