Do you see entitlement issues from kids just leaving the nest?

[Night Elf]

As the mom of a 19 yr. old and two teens who will be young adults in what seems like the blink of an eye, I'm facing the reality that my children won't be able to live the lifestyle they do now when they first move out. My DH has a top education and a good paying job. He works from home and his work looks effortless considering how available he is to us during the day. But he actually has many responsibilities that do not make his job easy. But the kids and I are used to having certain things and doing certain things. I feel guilty sometimes knowing I'm not contributing to the income coming into the home. However, barring any unforeseen circumstances, I do not plan to work outside the home even when the kids are grown and moved out. Is not working setting a bad example for the kids in the long run? I've never looked at it that way.

 

I think all new 'out of the nest' young adults should expect a step down as they take over the role of supporting themselves. I think a young adult going into college should expect less of a step down though. The hope is that college will give them a better opportunity to make more money. But with the economy the way it is right now, even going to college seems like a risky adventure. I've heard people talk about the current generation of young adults are in too much debt because they are trying to live a lifestyle they cannot afford. But are they doing that to match their parents who have already forged their path in the working world? Are they doing that because they want what they might not have had growing up?

 

My mom grew up poor and she's been in debt nearly all of her adult life because she believes credit is the only way a person can live a decent lifestyle. I've been teaching my kids that credit is NOT the answer.

 

Dd19 doesn't want to even try to move out. She knows she has a good setup here. But she does dream of her own place, if only she could really afford it and not be wondering if she can actually pay her bills and have money for food. She's finding adulthood to be more difficult than she thought.

 

Personally, my mom and I weren't exactly middle class. We lived on minimum wage and what money my dad (they were divorced) could contribute since he was laid off. The rest of that story isn't pleasant. Also, thanks to my mom's poor financial advice, I was $5,000 in credit card debt and several thousand in car loan debt before I even moved out into my first apartment at age 18 with my boyfriend. I had no expectations to live better. I was struggling to just get by but was content with what I had because we lived in a college town and the cost of living was very reasonable. I just wanted to have my own place. But I'm living in a higher lifestyle than I ever thought possible because of my DH's education. Had I stayed married to my first husband, I would not be in such a financial position. Which is why my sister accused me of marrying my DH just because of his money. That was years ago but I have a feeling she resents me for it still.

 

Sorry, the current thread topics have me musing. :)

[LibraryLover]

tmi :)

 

But basically I haven't seen these issues with my kids. They are very thoughtful about money, are good savers, and rarely ask for anything.

Edited April 6, 2012 by LibraryLover

[LMA]

I think that there is this mindset that people should not struggle anymore. I am not referring to just young people. There is a sense of entitlement in a lot of people. Teaching children to support themselves can't happen at 18. You have to teach them all along from the early years. And "supporting yourself" means that you have to learn to make the decisions that you have to do without the latest gadget because you need to pay rent.

 

A relative is struggling with what to do now. He graduated from high school and now, all of a sudden his parents expect him to know what to do with his life and he doesn't have a clue how to hold down a job. He thinks he can just call in for a day off when he wants to.

[crazyfordlr]

My children are still young (see my signature) but dh and I talk about this often b/c we didn't make good choices as young adults. (How many young adults do haha.) Also I work with many 20-30 somethings that still live at home due to the high cost of living (mixed with high expectations.) Here's our plan...

 

When the girls start high school they will have to learn how to budget things like clothes, haircuts, makeup, etc. At first we will give them a set amount that will be more than adequate to cover these expenses. Each year of high school we will give them less and they will have to find ways to make up the difference. They will also have to pay for their own gas and insurance. If we can afford to buy a car, we will. Otherwise they're going to have to find a way to buy their own cars.

 

In addition to all this we currently use the Dave Ramsey approach to our own finances as well as theirs. They know to save for what they want, spend only cash, and weigh out wants versus needs. We've told them that student loans are not a good choice and we do not recommend them. We've also told them that they can only spend 50% of what they have, hoping that they'll continue this habit as adults.

 

Now I have a feeling that my plans will change ;) but we can hope, right?

[LibraryLover]

My children are still young (see my signature) but dh and I talk about this often b/c we didn't make good choices as young adults. (How many young adults do haha.) Also I work with many 20-30 somethings that still live at home due to the high cost of living (mixed with high expectations.) Here's our plan...

 

When the girls start high school they will have to learn how to budget things like clothes, haircuts, makeup, etc. At first we will give them a set amount that will be more than adequate to cover these expenses. Each year of high school we will give them less and they will have to find ways to make up the difference. They will also have to pay for their own gas and insurance. If we can afford to buy a car, we will. Otherwise they're going to have to find a way to buy their own cars.

 

In addition to all this we currently use the Dave Ramsey approach to our own finances as well as theirs. They know to save for what they want, spend only cash, and weigh out wants versus needs. We've told them that student loans are not a good choice and we do not recommend them. We've also told them that they can only spend 50% of what they have, hoping that they'll continue this habit as adults.

 

Now I have a feeling that my plans will change ;) but we can hope, right?

 

 

My hope is that something is going to change, some bust. I don't know what. Our local uni charges over 1k per class. Mine earned free tuition at the local uni, but the fees on each class are more than the tuition. That's insane.

Edited April 5, 2012 by LibraryLover

[Danestress]

I don't think my son feels "entitled" to things and he certainly doesn't project a greediness or unwillingness to pay his dues. He had his own apartment for a while, figured out he can save $200 a month by sharing one, and so is moving next month to an apartment he can share. I am proud of him. I thought his own apartment was a bit of a luxury.

 

He is 24 and pays his own car and health insurance, rent, etc. He did his own taxes. He's doing really well and I am proud of him, but money is TIGHT. He has borrowed here and there, and that's been fine. He's still part of our family. My Mom shoots him money from time to time, cause that's just how she operates.

 

I don't think he feels entitled, but I do think he knows that he has a safety net - us. I think if you asked, "What would happened if you became disabled and needed full time care" he would probably think about us as a source of help. Is that entitlement or just being part of a family that cares? Maybe it's some of both.

[edelweiss]

I think about this often. DH and I both grew up in lower middle class families (and at times we lived under the poverty line). After spending time and money (our own!) to get good educations, making strategic career moves, delaying having children, and finally starting our own business, we are doing very well. Our children have privileged lives. It is such a blessing for us, but I do worry about how they will adjust when they get out into the "real" world. We constantly discuss it with them and they "get" it, but I doubt that they really understand, kwim?

 

It's tough. I don't know that I would do anything differently if I had it to do again. I like that I can expose them to a multitude of experiences. I like that they can participate in numerous activities. I like that we can travel a good bit and that they have exposure to the world at large. I feel like I'm giving them an amazing childhood. However, I do worry about how they will adjust when they go out into the world and have to learn to live on much less. :001_huh:

 

Once they are teenagers, we will set budgets for them for clothing, entertainment, etc. DH and I are both accountants, so budgeting/not carrying debt, etc. is near and dear to us. I still think that they are in for a massive shock once they leave however. That is, IF they leave. ;)

[myfunnybunch]

Dd19 doesn't want to even try to move out. She knows she has a good setup here. But she does dream of her own place, if only she could really afford it and not be wondering if she can actually pay her bills and have money for food. She's finding adulthood to be more difficult than she thought.

 

Your dd sounds like a wise young lady.

 

Choosing to stay at home over struggling with bills is wisdom, imo, particularly if she is using this time to further her education or employment experience so that she can eventually move out into a secure financial situation. Entitlement would be expecting to move out to live an independent lifestyle and continue to have all her needs met by her parents.

 

Moving out at 18 and struggling with bills is cultural. Americans place a great deal of emphasis on independence. Most of our Asian (female) students expect to live with their parents while they attend university and until they either get married or maybe if they have a really good job. (To be fair, we see a particular population sample, families who can afford to send their children overseas for a year or more, so these are usually families who are financially well-off.)

 

Cat

[Stacia]

I don't think he feels entitled, but I do think he knows that he has a safety net - us. I think if you asked, "What would happened if you became disabled and needed full time care" he would probably think about us as a source of help. Is that entitlement or just being part of a family that cares? Maybe it's some of both.

 

:iagree:

[myfunnybunch]

but I doubt that they really understand, kwim?

 

I didn't really understand, either, until I got there. And then I learned. :) All that "blah blah blah" my parents yakked at me while I was growing up was right there when I had to make my own decisions. I still made some kind of dumb ones, like running out of gas money before the end of the month, but that just reinforced what my parents had tried to teach me. I see my eldest dd (19) going through that process right now too. She'll get it.

 

Cat

[justamouse]

Horribly. Oldest Male Hatchling had NO concept of budget, even though we taught him. He had NO delayed gratification, no matter how much we taught him. He had a check and he never thought about car insurance, he went out and bought an iphone for him and his girlfriend with the data plan. :glare: Then couldn't make other bills. :glare::glare:

 

Now his sister is the complete opposite. She is a saver. I don't know if it's the personality type, but she will not make those same mistakes. She'll whinge and moan because she can't have what she wants, but she won't go get it because she happens to have some $.

[Aelwydd]

You know, nobody seems to talk about how wealthy families treat their young adults. Maybe I'm totally off, but it has been my observation that truly well-to-do families do not generally send their kids off into the world with little-to-no support. In fact, it seems just the opposite. They often either remain at home (in some super huge wing of a mansion or on other family property), or they are the recipients of some very large fund set aside for their own expenses.

 

Obviously, lots of folks will argue (and I'd agree with them) that it's not tenable for the majority of people to give their kids such a "head start." But the thing is, I think this is part of the difference in attitude between the wealthy, and the rest of us. I've read a few interesting books and articles about how "rich dads" raise their kids with a certain mentality towards money.

 

I think that throwing their kids out in the deep end runs contrary to the financial advantage they seek to instill in every other respect. They aren't looking for their kids to "prove" themselves worthy of a lifestyle. They are looking for their kids to inherit wealth, maintain it, and grow it. They can't do that very well if they are struggling to make ends meet.

 

I've known of a few exceptions where a wealthy business owner wanted his kid to "learn the ropes" the hard way. Mostly though, very wealthy people, especially those bred to it, seem to operate very differently.

 

It maybe comes down to a very simple difference in world view. Wealthy people have children to pass down wealth, and so adult children are not a financial drain, but rather an investment in continuing family wealth.

 

Poorer folks (and a large number of the rest of us) are coming from the opposite direction. Keeping adults home longer means mouths to feed, house, clothe, etc., are a financial burden, and so are encouraged or expected to strike out on their own and become self-sufficient.

 

So, I guess to answer your question, it depends on the culture that a young adult is raised in. If my son was born to a wealthy family (he's not :tongue_smilie:), he'd probably expect a certain standard of living and share of family wealthy upon reaching the age of majority, because that's what is done to preserve family wealth.

 

That's a noticeable difference to me between "rich" thinking and "poor" thinking. Rich seem to view their kids as extensions of their personal wealth. Whereas most everyone else is constrained by financial limitations to regard adult children as a drain on their wealth.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Aelwydd

[justamouse]

You know, nobody seems to talk about how wealthy families treat their young adults. Maybe I'm totally off, but it has been my observation that truly well-to-do families do not generally send their kids off into the world with little-to-no support. In fact, it seems just the opposite. They often either remain at home (in some super huge wing of a mansion or on other family property), or they are the recipients of some very large fund set aside for their own expenses.

 

Obviously, lots of folks will argue (and I'd agree with them) that it's not tenable for the majority of people to give their kids such a "head start." But the thing is, I think this is part of the difference in attitude between the wealthy, and the rest of us. I've read a few interesting books and articles about how "rich dads" raise their kids with a certain mentality towards money.

 

I think that throwing their kids out in the deep end runs contrary to the financial advantage they seek to instill in every other respect. They aren't looking for their kids to "prove" themselves worthy of a lifestyle. They are looking for their kids to inherit wealth, maintain it, and grow it. They can't do that very well if they are struggling to make ends meet.

 

I've known of a few exceptions where a wealthy business owner wanted his kid to "learn the ropes" the hard way. Mostly though, very wealthy people, especially those bred to it, operate very differently.

 

It maybe comes down to a very simple difference in world view. Wealthy people have children to pass down wealth, and so adult children are not a financial drain, but rather an investment in continuing family wealth.

 

Poorer folks (and a large number of the rest of us) are coming from the opposite direction. Keeping adults home longer means mouths to feed, house, clothe, etc., are a financial burden, and so are encouraged or expected to strike out on their own and become self-sufficient.

 

So, I guess to answer your question, it depends on the culture that a young adult is raised in. If my son was born to a wealthy family (he's not :tongue_smilie:), he'd probably expect a certain standard of living and share of family wealthy upon reaching the age of majority, because that's what is done to preserve family wealth.

 

That's a noticeable difference to me between "rich" thinking and "poor" thinking. Rich seem to view their kids as extensions of their personal wealth. Whereas most everyone else is constrained by financial limitations to regard adult children as a drain on their wealth.

 

You are so right. I should have made the point that Oldest Hatchling Son chose to do all that himself. He could have been working the business, staying at home, and having us help him. He could have had The Life. He chose to steal from us, do drugs and get himself into tons of trouble instead. I remember his grandmother walking through the plant with us, and her crying, and telling him, "You could have had all of this." Not that he could never-but at this point, he has a lot of growing up to do.

 

Daughter is different. She will be interning in the lab, and we will be helping her with everything.

 

But we are doing this for them. This is not so Dh can retire early, this is so the family has something, always, if they can hang onto it after we're gone.

[Aelwydd]

You are so right. I should have made the point that Oldest Hatchling Son chose to do all that himself. He could have been working the business, staying at home, and having us help him. He could have had The Life. He chose to steal from us, do drugs and get himself into tons of trouble instead. I remember his grandmother walking through the plant with us, and her crying, and telling him, "You could have had all of this." Not that he could never-but at this point, he has a lot of growing up to do.

 

Daughter is different. She will be interning in the lab, and we will be helping her with everything.

 

But we are doing this for them. This is not so Dh can retire early, this is so the family has something, always, if they can hang onto it after we're gone.

It's a shame he has not appreciated your generosity, but there's hope. :)

 

Sometimes it takes the "hard knocks" of life to wake up the "prodigal" child and realize how good they had it.

[Tammyla]

:lurk5: Food for thought...

[justamouse]

It's a shame he has not appreciated your generosity, but there's hope. :)

 

Sometimes it takes the "hard knocks" of life to wake up the "prodigal" child and realize how good they had it.

:grouphug: It's my every day prayer.

[regentrude]

However, barring any unforeseen circumstances, I do not plan to work outside the home even when the kids are grown and moved out. Is not working setting a bad example for the kids in the long run? I've never looked at it that way.

 

To be honest: yes, I think it is setting a bad example for daughters.

I want my DD to see me work, and I want her to grow up with the idea ingrained that women can support themselves without being dependent on a well-to-do husband.

I understand staying home with little kids, and I even understand staying home while homeschooling older kids - but I never got my MIL who never returned to work or found another worthwhile occupation (volunteering, or being an artist, or something) after her kids had grown up.

 

I think all new 'out of the nest' young adults should expect a step down as they take over the role of supporting themselves. I think a young adult going into college should expect less of a step down though. The hope is that college will give them a better opportunity to make more money. But with the economy the way it is right now, even going to college seems like a risky adventure. I've heard people talk about the current generation of young adults are in too much debt because they are trying to live a lifestyle they cannot afford. But are they doing that to match their parents who have already forged their path in the working world? Are they doing that because they want what they might not have had growing up?

 

I do expect my children to start at a lower standard of living than I have now in my 40s. I did it myself. As a student, I had very limited means. As a graduate student, only slightly better. But I do not recall ever regretting it - I still remember reveling in the freedom and independence, being thrilled by having my own small ratty apartment because I was finally an adult and no longer living with my parents.

DD is already chomping at the bit to move out and can hardly wait; I know that for her the new freedom will be more important than the higher lifestyle she could have staying at home. And I think that THIS is something where I, as a parent, can help: by not making material wealth the center of our lives.

Edited April 5, 2012 by regentrude

[BMW]

Because most people don't marry thinking, "Great, we are going to become miserable and divorced and I won't know how to support myself!", I teach my daughters that they need a lifelong passion and goal that is their very own and that they should be prepared to take care of themselves and their children if need be. You never know what life is going to throw at you and what circumstance you might find yourself in.

 

I was a SAHM and I think my children (now ages 13-22) respect that choice and appreciate their childhood with me... Now they are all looking at their college choices and occupational goals and the struggle to pay for education/career training and get on their feet is HUGE. So, I am choosing to take classes and establish myself in a career for two reasons:

 

1) Myself... I want something to do for myself that I enjoy and that benefits others. I will go into the medical field. I will not do office work or filing or be at a desk on a phone, though!

 

2) My kids. If within the next two years I am able to have an established career and pay check, I can help my children as they are getting on their feet.

 

I am not motivated by money, but, money is what colleges want in exchange for classes... and the store wants money for the camera that is required for my college daughter's photo-journalism class... I will be so excited to make more money and help with things like that.

[LAS in LA]

another worthwhile occupation (volunteering, or being an artist, or something) after her kids had grown up.

 

Thanks for including this. I don't think daughters (or anyone else) need to believe that earning money is the only way to make a serious, worthwhile contribution to the family or society. I may have to work after dc leave home, but what I'd really like to be is one of "the little old ladies that make the world go round" -- volunteering and helping people in significant ways.

[T'smom]

To be honest: yes, I think it is setting a bad example for daughters.

I want my DD to see me work, and I want her to grow up with the idea ingrained that women can support themselves without being dependent on a well-to-do husband.

I understand staying home with little kids, and I even understand staying home while homeschooling older kids - but I never got my MIL who never returned to work or found another worthwhile occupation (volunteering, or being an artist, or something) after her kids had grown up.

 

 

 

I do expect my children to start at a lower standard of living than I have now in my 40s. I did it myself. As a student, I had very limited means. As a graduate student, only slightly better. But I do not recall ever regretting it - I still remember reveling in the freedom and independence, being thrilled by having my own small ratty apartment because I was finally an adult and no longer living with my parents.

DD is already chomping at the bit to move out and can hardly wait; I know that for her the new freedom will be more important than the higher lifestyle she could have staying at home. And I think that THIS is something where I, as a parent, can help: by not making material wealth the center of our lives.

 

I disagree. I do NOT think you are setting a poor example for your children. Unless you have multiple maids to clean up after everyone, cooks to fix all your meals and someone bringing those meals to you while you work on your tan poolside.....

There are many things that need to be contributed to running a household- money is just one of those things. I'm sure that your kids see you making meaningful contributions to your family life.

[Night Elf]

I'll go out on a limb and assume you have legitimate reasons for not going to work later on (based on things you have said in the past).

 

Hmm.. I'd say I feel I have little choice. I have bipolar 2 and with that comes other things attached to it that just seem to not go well together. I've obviously held jobs but I've never had a job last more than 11 months. I did have one company that took me back 3 times but that was because my leaving always made sense and they valued me as an employee. The last job I had started getting stressful after 5 months. Combined with family issues, I quit at 6 months. I regret that so much. I could have handled that differently but it's impossible to explain what occurs in my brain that makes something seem so overwhelming that I need to run from it. Being on medication helps but I've never worked while on the meds, so I can't be sure.

 

So far, my daughters are the ones who show the most interest in working. Dd19 lives at home, but thrives on working. She pays all of her own expenses and since she pays no rent/utilities, she is also able to save. She had a down period of not working to focus on high school but she was very unhappy without making her own money. She spent all of her savings in order to avoid asking for help. I didn't realize just how fast her money left her accounts. Poor thing. Dd14 is chomping at the bit to get out of the house and into college. She doesn't even want to live at home while in school. She is ready to be independent. Her current career interest is psychology and she plans to attend graduate school. It's nice to see she has big plans at least.

 

Ds15 is a whole different ballgame. He has Aspergers and we have NO clue how to handle post high school.

 

I don't think any of my kids feel entitled, but dd19 has repeatedly questioned the reality of a job not paying enough to support herself. She doesn't understand how people make it. I've talked to her about Dave Ramsey and she has helped me with Grocery Game so she does see there are ways to handle finances. She's just feeling really down right now because she doesn't like her current job but has no idea what to do beyond it.

[Jenny in GA]

To be honest: yes, I think it is setting a bad example for daughters.

I want my DD to see me work, and I want her to grow up with the idea ingrained that women can support themselves without being dependent on a well-to-do husband.

I understand staying home with little kids, and I even understand staying home while homeschooling older kids - but I never got my MIL who never returned to work or found another worthwhile occupation (volunteering, or being an artist, or something) after her kids had grown up.

 

:iagree:

My mother quit work when she was 22 and, save two non-consecutive years of working part-time in retail, she never worked again over the next 45 years.

 

I think this hurt me in many ways. I have worked hard to overcome those things, but it definitely created an uphill-battle situation for me.

[Jenny in GA]

I disagree. I do NOT think you are setting a poor example for your children. Unless you have multiple maids to clean up after everyone' date=' cooks to fix all your meals and someone bringing those meals to you while you work on your tan poolside.....

There are many things that need to be contributed to running a household- money is just one of those things. I'm sure that your kids see you making meaningful contributions to your family life.[/quote']

 

 

But see, I think this is one of the problems. (Not speaking to anyone specific except my own experiences.)

 

A teenager should not see their mother doing little else than bringing them food and cleaning up after everyone. That is bad for multiple reasons, I think. Like I said, I grew up in that environment, and I think it hurt me in many ways.

[justamouse]

Thanks for including this. I don't think daughters (or anyone else) need to believe that earning money is the only way to make a serious, worthwhile contribution to the family or society. I may have to work after dc leave home, but what I'd really like to be is one of "the little old ladies that make the world go round" -- volunteering and helping people in significant ways.

:iagree: That is so going to be what I do, too. I have a list of places I want to volunteer. :001_smile:

[justamouse]

:iagree:

My mother quit work when she was 22 and, save two non-consecutive years of working part-time in retail, she never worked again over the next 45 years.

 

I think this hurt me in many ways. I have worked hard to overcome those things, but it definitely created an uphill-battle situation for me.

 

I had the opposite experience. My mother always worked and always put work first.

 

I came home to an empty home at 6 years old. It was hell. Dh also had a mother who worked. Neither of us want that for our family.

[edelweiss]

I'll go out on a limb and assume you have legitimate reasons for not going to work later on (based on things you have said in the past). My mother did not go back to work. She just couldn't. It never screwed me up. I've always had ambitions. I've worked many jobs. I graduated from college (in fact my mother was a high school drop out). I still have ambitions and plans and dreams and I have always worked hard. I'm not going to sit around and feel guilty about not working a paid job at this point (or any other point for that matter) because someone else thinks what I do is less valuable.

 

So if you want to retire after your job is done, good for you.

 

I agree. I am so not going back to work after my kids are grown (unless some change in circumstances required it). I have numerous reasons for feeling this way, mainly that I just don't want to. ;) I had a career before kids, and I have no aspirations to return to it now. None. I don't see a point to take a job that could go to someone who really needs it or wants it just to satisfy other people who think I belong back in the work force. Also, my paycheck would be largely eaten up by taxes, so it wouldn't be worth it on a practical basis.

 

However, I'm sure that I'll find ways to keep busy and be useful. I will love having time to finally explore some interests, but I'm sure that I'll also help my DH with his business... on a very part-time basis. ;)

[Jane in NC]

I think if you asked, "What would happened if you became disabled and needed full time care" he would probably think about us as a source of help. Is that entitlement or just being part of a family that cares? Maybe it's some of both.

 

Periodically threads arise to discuss parental obligation beyond age 18. This could be college or wedding funding or a hand-up of some form. Some people seem pretty rigid that 18 is a line that you cross and (tah-dah!) adulthood with all of its ramifications begins. Others prefer to ease their young adults into the real world. Nan and I see these responses as family culture. But the poster below brings up an interesting element of the equation.

 

 

You know, nobody seems to talk about how wealthy families treat their young adults. Maybe I'm totally off, but it has been my observation that truly well-to-do families do not generally send their kids off into the world with little-to-no support. In fact, it seems just the opposite. They often either remain at home (in some super huge wing of a mansion or on other family property), or they are the recipients of some very large fund set aside for their own expenses.

 

Obviously, lots of folks will argue (and I'd agree with them) that it's not tenable for the majority of people to give their kids such a "head start." But the thing is, I think this is part of the difference in attitude between the wealthy, and the rest of us. I've read a few interesting books and articles about how "rich dads" raise their kids with a certain mentality towards money.

 

 

 

The entire post is terrific but I'll snip it for the sake of bandwidth (since I'm old enough to think about these things).

 

Families with cottages in desired locations often set up trusts so that the inherited property can remain within the family. Across the country there are summer communities and winter ski communities where properties have been in families for some time. These properties are convergence points. There is disappointment when a family member is unable to be part of the seasonal gathering and it is not unusual for matriarchs and patriarchs to step forward to assist. So here is one difference among the wealthy and not so wealthy: vacation. And that vacation might include swim lessons for the kids or classes at a museum--courtesy of the grandparents or the great aunt. This was not part of my world growing up but it was part of my husband's world.

 

When people ask "What do you do?", one of my responses is that "I do not work for pay." This does not mean that my actions do not contribute to the economy at large or my community. I do a lot of volunteer work that would not get done if someone had to pay. For me, the value is not diminished by lack of payment since the quality of my life is worth far more than a paycheck. But then I am in an economic position to feel that way. If we were struggling financially, I suspect I may feel differently.

[Elinor Everywhere]

:iagree: That is so going to be what I do, too. I have a list of places I want to volunteer. :001_smile:

 

Me, too. I will be 53 when my kids finish high school, and my career before homeschooling was in the high-tech industry, which has changed leaps and bounds since I left in 2000. I don't anticipate returning to it; my dh travels a lot and he is looking forward to me accompanying him more often once the kids are gone.

 

My mom works 35 hours a week - all volunteer. She had a paying job my whole life, and when she retired she just kept right on working, so to speak. She's a busy gal. :D

[Briartell]

I have been honest with my kids. They have until 8 weeks after graduation to move out of our home completely. I will not be a storage unit for my kids things. My mom got stuck with kids living with her from the time she was 19 until she was 63. I will not follow that pattern.

 

I will have to set the bar for them during college. I imagine we will need to look over their finances often and I will help them with budgeting. They will have to work during school breaks to pay for any entertainment and such while at school. I will pay for tuition, books, a modest food budget and housing up to a certain level. If they choose a more expensive school, they will have to take out loans. I have told them about this for years and they know what the price limit is.

 

 

As for a mom not working outside the home, I consider that a privilege not a right. If my daughters want the privilege of staying home with their children, they should make that one of the qualities in a guy that are most important while dating. You can tell a lot about a guy simply by how much effort he puts into menial jobs and classes. Does he skip a lot of things because they are unpleasant? The same thing goes for my boys, if they want a hard working wife, those qualities should be present before marriage.

 

I do not agree that a mom who does not work outside the hope is setting a bad example. Some of the hardest working women I know are SAHM.

[T'smom]

But see, I think this is one of the problems. (Not speaking to anyone specific except my own experiences.)

 

A teenager should not see their mother doing little else than bringing them food and cleaning up after everyone. That is bad for multiple reasons, I think. Like I said, I grew up in that environment, and I think it hurt me in many ways.

 

Now, that is true and a very good point. I was trying to make the point that only work done for money is valuable. I agree that a mother should not be waiting on her children- she should be preparing her children to be independent. (which is actually a LOT more work than just doing it for them!) My mom only worked part-time when I was a teenager and not at all when I was little- but she never waited on me a day in my life!

[Danestress]

I disagree. I do NOT think you are setting a poor example for your children. Unless you have multiple maids to clean up after everyone' date=' cooks to fix all your meals and someone bringing those meals to you while you work on your tan poolside.....

[/quote']

 

Such a buzz kill. You are killing my dreams. I soooo badly want to have someone else to cook meals and clean up after everyone while I lie poolside with a good book! I have worked hard to achieve that. Well. Okay, I bought one mega million lottery ticket. Baby steps:)

[regentrude]

I disagree. I do NOT think you are setting a poor example for your children. Unless you have multiple maids to clean up after everyone' date=' cooks to fix all your meals and someone bringing those meals to you while you work on your tan poolside.....

There are many things that need to be contributed to running a household- money is just one of those things. I'm sure that your kids see you making meaningful contributions to your family life.[/quote']

 

But she was talking about life when they were all grown up... how can running a household for two people possibly fill a day?

Even with teenagers, I do not find that my household even remotely occupies my time... what does one DO all day? (I don't have a homestead where i have to carry water from the creek, chop firewood, kill and preserve my own food. I have tap water, gas heating and a supermarket.)

 

Just to clarify: to me, it is NOT about the money. It is about spending life time in a meaningful way. If the mother stays home to write a novel or paint, that's perfectly fine. My point is about doing something. About having a passion - for a job, or for a volunteer cause, or for a hobby. I consider it very important to model this for my children.

Edited April 5, 2012 by regentrude

[myfunnybunch]

Ds15 is a whole different ballgame. He has Aspergers and we have NO clue how to handle post high school.

 

I know this is off the original topic, but do you have a developmental disability agency in your area that might be able to offer some input or direction when it comes to post-high school transitions and independent living? We are facing these issues with our dd with autism, now 16, and starting to plan for community college attendance, post-high school services, independent living training, job services.

 

Cat

[regentrude]

I didn't assume she meant she would spend her time running a household. I figured she just meant she wouldn't go out and get a job. In other words, she would retire and do whatever it is retired people like to do.

 

I was replying to Tsmom who mentioned cleaning and preparing meals.

[Jenny in GA]

I had the opposite experience. My mother always worked and always put work first.

 

I came home to an empty home at 6 years old. It was hell. Dh also had a mother who worked. Neither of us want that for our family.

 

 

I would agree with you there.

 

I was talking about something a little different: a situation where there is only one (or no) child still living at home, the child (if there is one) is 15 or 16 or 17, and the mother is not homeschooling said child, not working, not going to college, and not doing regular volunteer work.

 

I think this is different than, say, a mother who decides to stay home while her kids are very young, or does not work because she is homeschooling multiple kids. I would agree that that situation is a good thing.

[myfunnybunch]

A teenager should not see their mother doing little else than bringing them food and cleaning up after everyone. That is bad for multiple reasons, I think. Like I said, I grew up in that environment, and I think it hurt me in many ways.

 

I think there's a pretty big assumption here: That a SAHM with teens must be bringing them food and cleaning up after them. (Which, btw, I agree does not set a good example.)

 

The choices aren't limited to go to work or cater to teens. There are many options: pursuing interests and hobbies, travel, volunteering, sitting on the couch eating bon-bons ;), crafting, taking classes, learning a second (or third) language, gardening....

 

My mother didn't work when I was a teen. I was still expected to clean up after myself, participate in meal preparation, and take responsibility for at least some of my expenses. I can't even imagine her reaction if I'd expected her to cater to me. (:lol: That just would SO not go over well.)

 

I plan to follow her example and volunteer my time and take classes and enjoy pursuing some of the interests I've put on hold while my kids are young and need my presence. :)

 

Cat

[Jenny in GA]

I think there's a pretty big assumption here: That a SAHM with teens must be bringing them food and cleaning up after them. (Which, btw, I agree does not set a good example.)

 

The choices aren't limited to go to work or cater to teens. There are many options: pursuing interests and hobbies, travel, volunteering, sitting on the couch eating bon-bons ;), crafting, taking classes, learning a second (or third) language, gardening....

 

My mother didn't work when I was a teen. I was still expected to clean up after myself, participate in meal preparation, and take responsibility for at least some of my expenses. I can't even imagine her reaction if I'd expected her to cater to me. (:lol: That just would SO not go over well.)

 

I plan to follow her example and volunteer my time and take classes and enjoy pursuing some of the interests I've put on hold while my kids are young and need my presence. :)

 

Cat

 

 

I wasn't assuming anything; I was simply responding to the post that mentioned "cleaning up after everyone" and "bringing those meals" as being meaningful contributions the kids were seeing you do.

 

I think I see now why people are disagreeing with me here. I think you guys have experienced, "Mother who doesn't work, but fills lots of her time with other things non-paid activities and challenges like volunteer work, classes, etc."

 

What I experienced (and what I still strongly contend was not a good thing for anybody and had long-reaching negative effects) was, "Mother who doesn't work and therefore fills her time doing things that kids should be doing for themselves."

[T'smom]

But she was talking about life when they were all grown up... how can running a household for two people possibly fill a day?

Even with teenagers, I do not find that my household even remotely occupies my time... what does one DO all day? (I don't have a homestead where i have to carry water from the creek, chop firewood, kill and preserve my own food. I have tap water, gas heating and a supermarket.)

 

Just to clarify: to me, it is NOT about the money. It is about spending life time in a meaningful way. If the mother stays home to write a novel or paint, that's perfectly fine. My point is about doing something. About having a passion - for a job, or for a volunteer cause, or for a hobby. I consider it very important to model this for my children.

 

That is not the way I interpreted it. She talked of "setting an example"- by the time a kid is mid-teens, I think the example-setting time is over. Kids absorb internal messages when they're younger than that. I thought she was musing about if she already had/hadn't set a good example for them.

I said that sitting poolside while other people waited on you was setting a bad example. I believe that it is. I also believe that waiting on your kids hand and foot is a bad idea. Kids need to see mom as a person with interests/ideas/value and they do NOT need to think that bringing in income is the only valuable contribution.

[myfunnybunch]

I wasn't assuming anything; I was simply responding to the post that mentioned "cleaning up after everyone" and "bringing those meals" as being meaningful contributions the kids were seeing you do.

 

Sorry, maybe I misunderstood. The quote you responded to referred to a maid to clean up, cooks to bring meals, and poolside service. That part was (I think) a joke, so I assumed you were actually responding to--and disagreeing with--the rest of the quoted post, which said that staying home is not a disservice to teens and stay at home parents can make valuable contributions to the family without returning to work. :) I'm certainly not trying to invalidate your experience. Sorry I misunderstood.

 

Cat

[Night Elf]

I know this is off the original topic, but do you have a developmental disability agency in your area that might be able to offer some input or direction when it comes to post-high school transitions and independent living? We are facing these issues with our dd with autism, now 16, and starting to plan for community college attendance, post-high school services, independent living training, job services.

 

Cat

 

I wouldn't even know how to find such an agency. I'm also not exactly sure how to even describe my son. I'm not sure he's affected to the point that he would need special help. Of course, with the idea of the definition of Aspergers changing, I'm not even sure where he would stand with that! His only passion is playing video games and the only job we can think of that would be related is a retail store like Game Stop. At least our Game Stop knows my son by name. Right now, that is the only job he thinks he might like. I'm leaning towards him doing some online college classes and working part-time to see how things go.

[Night Elf]

That is not the way I interpreted it. She talked of "setting an example"- by the time a kid is mid-teens' date=' I think the example-setting time is over. Kids absorb internal messages when they're younger than that. I thought she was musing about if she already had/hadn't set a good example for them. [/quote']

 

When I talked about setting a bad example, I was referring to the fact that as a parent, I would be pushing my kids to go to college and get jobs while they saw me staying home and not working outside the home. I also said I had never looked at it that way before, but thought about it today for the first time. I don't believe it's so though. We are free to make choices within our circumstances. I can be a homemaker while my DH works for pay, so that's what I do.

 

To be honest, I didn't quit work just to be a SAHM. I quit because I wanted to be a homemaker. I wanted to care for my family and our home and I would feel the same way even if I didn't have children. So while my stupid mental medical condition seems to affect my ability to work, that doesn't mean I can't work. I most certainly can get a job and work if I need to. But since I have the opportunity to stay home, that is my preference.

 

I am sorry to hear some of you say that staying home after the kids move out is wrong and/or somehow unfulfilling or meaningless. To be honest, I didn't feel fulfilled when I worked outside the home so I don't see how going to work when my kids are out of the house will make my life better. I don't understand the attitude that doing something such as working for money or volunteering are the only ways a person can feel their life has meaning.

 

I also do not serve my family, as in being a servant to their wishes. We're all pretty independent. My kids know how to prepare food and wash their own clothes. They pitch in around the house not because it's a requirement, we don't have assigned chores, but they do it because it's just the thing to do. The only chore I take full responsibility for is cleaning the bathrooms. I'm just fairly certain that my kids' won't suffer if they don't clean a bathroom until they move out. It's not exactly rocket science. No one taught me. I just picked it up. So I wouldn't say I'm setting a bad example for them.

[Night Elf]

I can imagine myself going back to school and pursuing my interests, but lets face it, I won't be that young anymore so I'm not sure there is a point to that. I guess I've become too practical.

 

I went back to school in 2010 but left in january 2011 because my ds15 was having difficulty with his high school courses. My dd14 was starting high school classes and felt out of her element. There just weren't enough hours in the day to do it all. But I wasn't going to school to pursue a career. I was going just because I loved it. I was studying early childhood education, ages birth to 5 with a focus on Montessori learning. It was fabulous and so interesting! When I can go back, I will, regardless of my age. But I might not go back into that particular track. The thing is that I was having a hard time with full-time school AND spending 15 to 20 hours per week working directly with children. I don't think I'll be able to pull that off as I get older. At my college, advisement isn't mandatory before registering for classes so I can go in and take any subject I care to take. I can be quite happy just taking random classes that look intersting without earning a degree. I'm only a few years away from going back, so I do have that to look forward to that.

[Nan in Mass]

But she was talking about life when they were all grown up... how can running a household for two people possibly fill a day?

Even with teenagers, I do not find that my household even remotely occupies my time... what does one DO all day? (I don't have a homestead where i have to carry water from the creek, chop firewood, kill and preserve my own food. I have tap water, gas heating and a supermarket.)

 

Just to clarify: to me, it is NOT about the money. It is about spending life time in a meaningful way. If the mother stays home to write a novel or paint, that's perfectly fine. My point is about doing something. About having a passion - for a job, or for a volunteer cause, or for a hobby. I consider it very important to model this for my children.

 

GRIN - I intend to stay home and paint.

 

And find some way to contribute to my community, the environment, animal well-being, and world peace. Dream large, right?

 

The first thing I am going to do after finishing homeschooling (and I just finished planning my youngest's last year, which is mostly cc classes so this is really around the corner) is help my parents, who are getting older, a pretty traditional SAHM occupation. I will help my sister with her children while she works and continue to parent my adult children the way I was parented (and am still) by mine. That last actually does take time. In between all that, I hope to paint. I've sold 3 paintings in 2 years, so this is not likely to be something that could be called "working" LOL. That doesn't bother me one bit.

 

Regentrude - I know what you mean about showing your children that it is possible to do other things in addition to the traditional tasks of caring for children, elders, and a house. I find those tasks very satisfying (well, not as much the house part, but even that, some), and I hope all my children will also get to experience the satisfaction of those things. I've always wondered if men's midlife crisis had anything to do with the lack of those things. I like taking care of people. I like doing things for them. I probably would feel differently if I hadn't been raised to view those things as optional.

 

My mother was (and is) always careful to point out to her daughters that one of the reasons that we all stay home so happily is that women in our family, despite staying home with their children, have been liberated for generations. Even some of the great grandmothers had some education beyond high school and nobody ever thought they were intellectually inferior to men. That colours one's perspective quite a lot. Just as having some spare resources colours one's perspective about how much one is willing financially to help one's adult children. (I still don't see the problem with adult living at home and working and contributing to the family. It seems to me an only sensible way to raise everyone's standard of living. That is a different post, though.)

 

There was a moment in my mother's life when she suddenly wondered if she had done her daughters a grave disservice by not working after we were born. This was when it became obvious, about half way through high school, that what I really wanted to do with my life was have children and stay home with them. My parents wondered if they had set me an example that was not going to be possible in the US in the future. They told us their worries. They scrambled around and asked people what they thought. I went to college and majored in something that had half a chance of letting me work from home with my children underfoot at least some of the time. I think what they didn't realize was that my mother had not really set a bad example. She talked about her days working in a cancer research lab. When I was in high school, she mapped all the wetlands in our town so that the town could implement town zoning. She was offered a paying job when she had finished and turned it down. She drew and played piano. Now she is my partner learning to paint. She set a wonderful example of an adult who continued to grow and learn throughout her whole life. : ) And she brought her adult children plates of food. Now I bring her plates of food with the same pleasure. Not that we didn't contribute to the household chores when we were grown up and living at home and working. She just was willing to do the lion's share because it was easier for her and because the rest of us were working full time.

 

I'm not sure I managed to say anything in all that... Mostly I was struck by Regentrude's comment about painting. And my thought about my mother setting an example of continuing to grow...

 

Regentrude - Obviously you have a better grip on your household chores than I do. Ug. I can easily envision mine taking all my time. I guess I am factoring in a certain amount of child care and gardening and crafts, though. If it were just cooking and cleaning and maintenance, I think I could do it in mornings alone. I think. This makes me want to ask you exactly how you manage your household LOL.

 

Nan

[akmommy]

No, our oldest has had a job since shortly after she turned sixteen and was made a manager just after she turned 18. Now at nineteen she is a bank teller. She wanted a job because she already knew she needed insurance if she wanted to drive and we weren't going to pay for it. She is currently renting a room in a friends house and has not once asked for our help. She decided to hold off on college for a couple years because she is still unsure of what she wants to do, but at 19 she has a very good job for some one her age and thinks that if she continues to rent a room, rather then getting her own apartment, for rest of this year she will be able to bank $10,000.

 

She knows she will always have a home with us, but she has such a strong independent streak that she would have to have no choice for her to ask.

[regentrude]

Regentrude - I know what you mean about showing your children that it is possible to do other things in addition to the traditional tasks of caring for children, elders, and a house. I find those tasks very satisfying (well, not as much the house part, but even that, some), and I hope all my children will also get to experience the satisfaction of those things. I've always wondered if men's midlife crisis had anything to do with the lack of those things. I like taking care of people. I like doing things for them. I probably would feel differently if I hadn't been raised to view those things as optional.

 

 

I see my children move out and go away to college in the near future. none of them will likely have a job here in this town. My parents and extended family are overseas; there is no way other than financial support that I can be involved in eldercare.

I love taking care of my family - but I also see that the time is getting close to the end. My kids will very soon not need me that much anymore, and I can not make caring for them the center of my life for much longer. So I am already making plans, because I know that a wave of depression will hit me when they leave, and I must have a plan. Just my job won't be enough anymore. I plan to take classes and study a subject that has absolutely nothing to do with my current area of expertise.

 

As for the midlife crisis: no, I do not think it does. I rather think it has to do with having achieved the goals one has set, and realizing that time is limited and that one is not likely to accomplish all that much in the remaining time.

I went through a very similar experience when I had reached all the goals I had set for myself: college, graduate school, postdoc in a foreign country, two healthy children... after that came a very deep hole where I was looking for orientation. It felt very much like the midlfe crisis is often described, and I have talked to quite a few women who have made similar experiences.

 

Regentrude - Obviously you have a better grip on your household chores than I do. Ug. I can easily envision mine taking all my time. I guess I am factoring in a certain amount of child care and gardening and crafts, though. If it were just cooking and cleaning and maintenance, I think I could do it in mornings alone. I think. This makes me want to ask you exactly how you manage your household LOL.

 

I found that the less time I have, the better organized I am about housework. When I was home all the time, I actually got less done than how that I am working 30 hours per week and homeschooling; I use my time much more efficiently.

I have to admit that I do not craft; I have zero desire to make things that require storage. My gardening is limited, because we travel all summer, so landscaping has to be low maintenance. I like to cook and bake all my bread, but that's about it as far as extras go.

[regentrude]

At my college, advisement isn't mandatory before registering for classes so I can go in and take any subject I care to take. I can be quite happy just taking random classes that look intersting without earning a degree. I'm only a few years away from going back, so I do have that to look forward to that.

 

That is what I was talking about - modeling growth. Not necessarily through a paid job only, but also through furthering one's education. I think this sets a fantastic example for your kids.

[LMA]

When I talked about setting a bad example, I was referring to the fact that as a parent, I would be pushing my kids to go to college and get jobs while they saw me staying home and not working outside the home. I also said I had never looked at it that way before, but thought about it today for the first time. I don't believe it's so though. We are free to make choices within our circumstances. I can be a homemaker while my DH works for pay, so that's what I do.

 

To be honest, I didn't quit work just to be a SAHM. I quit because I wanted to be a homemaker. I wanted to care for my family and our home and I would feel the same way even if I didn't have children. So while my stupid mental medical condition seems to affect my ability to work, that doesn't mean I can't work. I most certainly can get a job and work if I need to. But since I have the opportunity to stay home, that is my preference.

 

I am sorry to hear some of you say that staying home after the kids move out is wrong and/or somehow unfulfilling or meaningless. To be honest, I didn't feel fulfilled when I worked outside the home so I don't see how going to work when my kids are out of the house will make my life better. I don't understand the attitude that doing something such as working for money or volunteering are the only ways a person can feel their life has meaning.

 

I also do not serve my family, as in being a servant to their wishes. We're all pretty independent. My kids know how to prepare food and wash their own clothes. They pitch in around the house not because it's a requirement, we don't have assigned chores, but they do it because it's just the thing to do. The only chore I take full responsibility for is cleaning the bathrooms. I'm just fairly certain that my kids' won't suffer if they don't clean a bathroom until they move out. It's not exactly rocket science. No one taught me. I just picked it up. So I wouldn't say I'm setting a bad example for them.

 

I'll be honest here. I work part-time from the house right now (partly to keep my resume going). After the children are gone, I will find plenty of meaning in using my free time for myself as a person. I do not see a need to go volunteering or working. If I want to be lazy for a while, I will do so.

 

I hope we can go traveling again as we did before the children. I hope to go to lunch with my friends again. I may work if I feel like it. I hope to pick up more embroidery projects.

 

I don't think you have to be always "doing" something in order to have meaning to your life. While others find service to others as fulfilling, it is not a requirement that everyone does volunteer work. When the children are gone, you are entitled to enjoy your life with your husband however you see fit.