Airplanes, 2 yo, and car seats?

[Heather in Neverland]

So we are finally able to take our daughter back to the U.S. in June. She will be 2.5yo at the time. She will have her own seat on the plane (you can't carry them on your lap past age 2 and sheesh, I wouldn't want to have her on my lap for a 27 hour flight anyways!:tongue_smilie:).

 

I had fully intended to bring her car seat on the plane and install it in the airplane seat for the flight. I even checked to make sure it fit the standards for the two different airlines we are using (it does).

 

But this past week I flew to Indonesia and back (it involved 4 different planes) and there were lots of small children on these flights and NO ONE had a car seat of any kind. So then I started wondering, am I being paranoid? Over-protective?

 

I definitely lean towards over-protective and I have never flown with a small child before so tell me, should I bring her car seat or no?

 

.

[Lily_Grace]

I would bring it on the plane for a number of reasons.

 

1. if she's used to it, it's easier to remember to sit.

 

2. you need it at your destination.

 

3. I do not baggage check safety equipment. I don't even like gate checking it, but I will as a last resort. Baggage-check is just an invite to have it broken when you get there.

[Amira]

We don't fly with car seats on international flights. We haven't even tried it ourselves, but I've known people who've had a lot of trouble with them once they got out of the US. I don't think I've ever seen a child in a car seat on a flight that was outside the US. I'm sure it could be done by a determined parent, but for us, it's not worth it.

 

We do bring a cushion for small children to sit on to help make the seat belt tighter, and to make it easier to reach the tray table.

 

Of course, if we had international destinations where it was practical to have a car seat, that might change things, but car seats are useless in Central Asia since we don't own a car and it's rare (practically impossible) to find a car with functioning seat belts in the back seat.

[Heather in Neverland]

Amira (and anyone who cares to chime in)

 

Can I give you a few more details and see if you can help me think through this?

 

- we are flying from Penang to Singapore, then a layover, then Singapore to Tokyo (plane change but no layover), then Tokyo to Detroit. Same flight in reverse on the way back.

 

- I will need a car seat for our 6 week visit in the U.S. but I can use my SIL's so I don't necessarily need to bring ours.

 

- Car seat or no car seat will probably make no difference to my daughter as she will be difficult to keep still no matter what. :glare:

 

Obviously, I want my daughter to be safe and I am American so I have that hyper-safety mindset ingrained in me. :D No one here uses car seats or seat belts so they already think we are weird.

 

So that's where I am at... is the car seat on the airplane necessary for safety or is it one of those things that is an "American" thing?

 

.

[Pretty in Pink]

If she's already especially wiggle-prone then I would absolutely take the carseat on the plane (I'm assuming it's a 5 pt harness and not just a booster seat). I flew internationally with my then 2 yo son and had no problem taking his seat on the plane with me. That was 11 years ago and I was flying from Germany to the United States with one lay over, in Frankfurt. I'm sure I flew Lufthansa.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I took a carseat on a flight once and never would do it again! It's just a hassle trying to get the thing down the aisle, along with carry-ons and children.

I'd just borrow or rent a carseat at the destination.

[Amira]

Amira (and anyone who cares to chime in)

 

Can I give you a few more details and see if you can help me think through this?

 

- we are flying from Penang to Singapore, then a layover, then Singapore to Tokyo (plane change but no layover), then Tokyo to Detroit. Same flight in reverse on the way back.

 

- I will need a car seat for our 6 week visit in the U.S. but I can use my SIL's so I don't necessarily need to bring ours.

 

- Car seat or no car seat will probably make no difference to my daughter as she will be difficult to keep still no matter what. :glare:

 

Obviously, I want my daughter to be safe and I am American so I have that hyper-safety mindset ingrained in me. :D No one here uses car seats or seat belts so they already think we are weird.

 

So that's where I am at... is the car seat on the airplane necessary for safety or is it one of those things that is an "American" thing?

 

.

 

Well, I'm probably not the one to ask because I'm not quite a typical American anymore. We cheerfully crowd into all kinds of cars and my four-year-old hasn't worn a seat belt, much less been in a car seat, since he was two in the US. I am always relieved when I can put him in a car seat in the US, but I don't fret not doing it here since there's really nothing I can do about it. It just always seems difficult to me to have to carry a car seat around between planes, and the cushion really does work well for us. And I don't know about your kids, but my kids would never want to stay buckled in a five-point harness for 24 hours of flying time. The 12 hours of layovers wouldn't make up for it. :)

 

In the end, I don't think there is a siginificantly increased safety risk when my kids aren't in a car seat on an airplane. But that's just me.

 

If it's really important to you, I don't think it's a problem to take a car seat- the hassle would be worth it to you. The people around you will likely think it's strange, and the flight attendants might not be supportive (I've heard of them not allowing car seats, but that's just anecdotal), but that shouldn't stop you. You'll also have another adult there, I assume, to help with luggage and children.

[Amber in AUS]

I've flown internationally with a 18mo and on another occasion with a 20mo. We didn't take the carseat with us. Both times the kids were happy to sit, play, stand in their seat along with watching TV, coloring, looking at books, playing. I can not imagine having my kids strapped into their carseats for that long a journey. I have never seen anyone is Australia take a carseat into the cabin of a plane.

[Jennifer in MI]

I took a carseat on a flight once and never would do it again! It's just a hassle trying to get the thing down the aisle, along with carry-ons and children.

I'd just borrow or rent a carseat at the destination.

 

:iagree: It was SUCH a pain in the you-know-what! Also, it was too big for the seat. I mean, it fit, but my poor dd had NO leg room. Literally. Her seat was pushing against the seat ahead of her. We ended up gate-checking our car seat on our other flights.

 

It was nice to have it at our final destination as it was a seat I trusted. But, it was a pain to lug around the airport. Next time, we'll make arrangements to have one at our destination, but I'm not flying with it again!

[momma2three]

Another message board convinced me to take a carseat for my 2yo and my 3yo on an international flight! It was SUCH a disaster! Don't do it. Dragging the seats through the airport was actually okay, because we bought a little thing that attaches wheels and a handle to it, so we could just pull it along with kids in it. But installing it on the flight was a nightmare! The flight attendants were actually sooo patient with us... if I were them, I wouldn't have been nearly so patient! The seats took up the ENTIRE area, and touched the seats in front of them. So the seats in front couldn't go back, and my kids' feet touched the seats... no way to prevent them kicking the seats in front. Luckily there were a few empty seats on the flight, so they moved the people in front of my kids. And then one of the carseats got stuck when we had to get off on the way home, and we had the entire flight crew AND the co-pilot AND a few maintenance people helping us get it out.

 

Anyway, just the size and how it barely fit in the seat is enough. If it had been a full flight and there was no place to move the people in front of my kids, they would have made us check it... and I don't blame them. I'm never flying internationally with a carseat again.

[nova147]

Check out CARES. It's a "belt" to convert the airplane belt into a 3 point harness. It's FAA approved. We used it on a flight to Florida a few weeks ago with our 2 year old and loved it. So much less hassle than a car seat.

 

I have also found car seats difficult to fit into airplane seats. And really hard to carry down aisles. And tough to drag through the airport. CARES is small - it folds up and would fit in a diaper wipes box (not that I would put it in one, just giving you an idea on size). I think it provides a great combination of safety and convenience.

[EmmaNZ]

Heather, we have done very long haul, multiple stops, with our 4. I have never felt the need for a carseat and to be honest wouldn't think of doing it - just not worth the hassle.

 

It is hard enough carrying tired children and hand luggage through airports without adding a car seat into the mix. In many airports, when you reach your destination there are no trolleys until you get to the luggage carousel, which can be a HUGE walk in some places.

 

I also don't think the carseat makes things any safer on the plane - if it's gonna crash a car seat isn't gonna do much anyway! Most people don't mind chatting to a young child who pops their head up over the seat, and most kiddies need to get down and walk the aisles fairly regularly anyway.

[TheReader]

We've been doing international flights to/from the US since my littlest was 2.5 (he's now 7). We took the car seat on the first flight, and possibly the 2nd, but none since. I'll share my reasoning and maybe it will help you decide.

 

1 - that car seat raises little legs up to where normal stretching and wiggling = kicking the back of the seat in front of them. It is nearly impossible to prevent this in a toddler sitting in a car seat, whereas sitting down in the regular seat, their little legs are too low.

 

2 - the car seat also raises them up so that a person in front of them, who reclines (and who doesn't on those long flights!?) is really encroaching into toddlers space, more so than under normal circumstances. So much so that if the person in front of the toddler is reclined it would be impossible to use the tray table, and if you have an awake toddler wanting a snack or wanting a play area, but an asleep person in front, then you have Major.Hassle.

 

3 - toting the car seat around between layovers and customs and in & out of planes, up & down the aisle, etc. is a pain. You pretty much need to be 1st on one/last one off to get the car seat down the plane aisle and avoid bumping heads, etc. Which means more time strapped in for your little one.

 

4 - sleeping. It is hard enough for mom to fall asleep on those flights, the discomfort of having to sit rigidly upright because of the hard plastic side of the seat next to you makes it impossible (or nearly so). Not to mention that's a long time for toddler to be stuck in car seat position; our flight is only 10 hrs, I cannot imagine 27 hrs (even realizing some of that is, obviously, layovers). I think in the end, you'd have a much crankier toddler from being forced to stay in that.one.position. the whole time.

 

The only reason we took it the first time was because of the whole "he'll sit better in a seat that he knows means 'sit still'" but we found that to not be so true, and certainly not true enough to be worth the hassle. Also, I was still nursing him that first time, and I don't know if your dd is nursing or taking bottles still or what, but that car seat really encroaches on your space if you need to eat, she wants out and wants in your lap, the person to the side of her needs out (would she be guaranteed a window? or a middle where no one would need to cross over her?), even you eating, your elbows will be bumping her seat.

 

I would honestly skip it. Even with my very tiny youngest we've found the regular seat belt to tighten down tight enough so that he's safe during turbulence and such (and we've had some real doozies of bumps in the air). And, in case of the worst case scenario.....I just don't see a car seat making much difference at that point.

 

Those are my thoughts, fwiw. Hope this helps you think through all sides of the issue, whatever you decide.

 

And -- congrats on being able to take her to the US finally!! I've not posted but have read your threads on that; so exciting!

[bettyandbob]

I've never flown without a car seat for an infant or toddler (I've always bought a ticket for all my dc).

 

1. I've always flown with dh, so there were two adults to manage carseats and carry ons.

 

2. The car seats were needed at the other end. I was not going to check it in as luggage and risk losing it.

 

3. My youngest is now 10, but way back when I read safety studies that concluded children were safer in airline approved carseats. If the plane experiences turbulence a child who is not restrained is more likely to be injured than an adult (children are more likely to become projectiles because they weigh less).

 

4. If my dc got extremely wiggly at a time when he really couldn't be, I could put him in the carseat--an airline safety belt will not restrain a small child.

[momma2three]

Oh yeah, that's another reason why the carseat was a nightmare: you can't put the tray table down. So good luck feeding them meals while they're balancing that big tray of food on their knees! DH and I had to put their meals on our laps, with our meals on our tables, and then feed them one thing at a time... trust me, that made no one happy. And they can't lean on the table to color or anything like that.

[Laura Corin]

I used a carseat and was glad of it. My boys were much more comfortable and slept better than in a full-sized seat.

 

Laura

[Starr]

We used a car seat but it was many years ago. The kids somehow settled into car routine and stayed put and slept better. We did get up and walked the narrow aisle off and on. If she can reach the seat in front of her with her feet be sure you take her shoes off. :D And there is the old allergy medicine routine to make them a little sleepy...The tray was a problem but you might want to hand her stuff off of yours so you don't have a mess anyway.

[AuntieM]

I flew with my just over 2yo, it was just the two of us. She sat in it on the way there, but I checked it on the way back.

 

It was nice to know she was secure on the first flights. But that car seat was a royal pain to handle in the airport. Since I was the only adult I was not only keeping track of my child, but also the carry on bag and umbrella stroller in addition to the car seat. Plus it was at the height of take-off-your-shoes for security, and I had worn zippered knee high boots - stupid!

 

I personally would feel safer if my child had a safety seat available on a long international flight.

 

Anyway, I know you are going as a family so there will be extra hands. Just think about who will carry what and who will hold hands with who when you are in airports (I am guessing more that one with your international transit).

[itsheresomewhere]

Odd thing that no one tells you about- call the airline and ask for the seat measurements. Several carseats bases are now too wide for the seats. Last I used the car seat, it was too wide for the seat. I had the arm up and everything. DD behaves much better without the seat.

[Farrar]

I totally get the need for cars eats in a car. They protect a child if there's a car crash. Car crashes are common and very dangerous and car seats actually work to save lives. I have never understood the safety element of using one on the plane. If the plane crashes, which, thank God, is extremely uncommon, then that seat seems like it's not so likely to help much. Has there ever been a plane accident where a safety seat saved a child?

[Pretty in Pink]

I totally get the need for cars eats in a car. They protect a child if there's a car crash. Car crashes are common and very dangerous and car seats actually work to save lives. I have never understood the safety element of using one on the plane. If the plane crashes, which, thank God, is extremely uncommon, then that seat seems like it's not so likely to help much. Has there ever been a plane accident where a safety seat saved a child?

 

The idea is more to protect the infant or lap-child that could be injured during a turbulence event because they were not strapped down. During severe turbulence I wouldn't want to rely on my arms to restrain my child.

 

If the child can be properly restrained by their own lap belt and will use it willingly and correctly then they don't need a carseat.

[Harriet Vane]

The airlines will allow only certain, specific car seats that meet their specifications. You have to check the website.

 

I always flew with a car seat, and I was usually the only one. As far as I am concerned, it's common sense.

[tabrizia]

We did the flight to India with a car seat. That being said we only had one flight transfer. It was really nice though because DS would sleep in his car seat (not that he actually did sleep more then 2 hours on the way there, but that wasn't because of the car seat). We had enough people going that bringing along a car seat wasn't a big deal. That being said my FIL had to have a discussion with the flight attendants and pilot about whether it was allowed or not, since it wasn't an US based airline and each country has different rules about car seat.

 

It was however really useful on the flight to keep DS comfortable and if we end up flying to India again before our youngest turns 4 we will take a car seat again, even if we never ended up using it while in India (thanks to no seat belts in the back of the cars we took, sigh).

 

We also have a CARES harness, but it doesn't work as well as a car seat and when given the option between it and just the seat belt, we actually prefer just the seat belt.

[chepyl]

I have never put my kids in a carpet on a plane.we had enough to lug around without a carseat. We rented on at one location and in NYC you don't need them.

 

I have been on one seas flights and experienced plenty of turbulence, but never anything that would have thrown a child from my arms or a seat belt.

[AdventureMoms]

I find carseats worthwhile on airplanes. From a safety standpoint they are a lot safer during turbulence, but for me the biggest thing is that my kids sleep better and are more comfortable in the seats. They are a pain in the airport, but we strap them to a luggage cart and put the kid in it like a stroller. When we get to our gate, one adult sits and babysits the luggage and the other adult runs the kids around the airport. When it comes time to board, one adult boards first with the carseats while the other adult chases the children. The pre-board adult gets all the seats set up and ready to go, then the kids can jump in their seats at the last minute.

 

Our next flight we will have 2 23mo's and 1 4.5yo. We will fly with two carseats for the twins. The 4yo will ride with a lap belt (we have family who will meet us at the airport with a seat for her in the car).

 

Also, if you cannot keep your child seated with the lapbelt during taxi & takeoff, they can kick you off the plane. A lady travelling alone with two little kids nearly got kicked off a flight we were on. If you have a 5pt harness, at the very least you can strap the toddler down during the critical moments. They may scream but they wont be running the aisles. My 1yos are super strong and big, I'm not confident I could hold them down if they decided they wanted to run. I'm sure they won't be any smaller at 2yo.

[Maus]

I took carseats when we flew to Europe with our then 10 month old son (and bought him his own ticket so we could do so), and again when the oldest two were 3 1/2 years and 18 months. I had fairly narrow car seats already, because I drive a compact car. The carseats were no brainers for us because our kids are escape artists who can get out of anything that's not a five-point harness, and at that age didn't understand why they shouldn't. (Those little straps in grocery store carts are useless;-) )

[MtnTeaching]

I have been on other WTM threads where this topic actually became hotly debated. There are people who get very touchy when someone even makes the comment that a car seat is probably a good idea on an airplane.

I am a former flight attendant, so I come from the mindset that a child should not even set foot on a plane without a car seat. I am NOT saying that I feel a person is a bad parent if they do not use a car seat. I know it is a hassle and that it is not mandatory. I know that the chances of your child being harmed are probably very small.

I am just saying that I have seen instances where severe turbulence or an unexpected hard landing have made it hard for parents to hold their child. No, I have never actually seen one dropped, but I have seen them thrown around from side to side I also had to personally grab and hang onto a small child who was playing in the bulkhead area when we hit sudden turbulence.

In a real emergency, there would be no way that a parent, no matter how strong they believe they are, could hold onto their little projectile. During training, we were shown videos of "test dummies" in rough turbulence and hard landings. It was enough to convince me. It also showed that tiny toddlers can just shoot right out of a conventional airplane waist seatbelt. They are just too little for the seatbelt to actually keep them in.

I personally watched a 12yo sleeping boy catapult into the overhead bin, bust through the underneath of the bin (bent metal and wires hanging down) and split his head open due to turbulence. He had taken his seatbelt off under his blanket because it was "uncomfortable". He was met by an ambulance, taken off in a neck brace, and had stitches and a concussion. I myself have a crushed vertebrae in my upper back from hitting the ceiling and then landing across the armrests as I pulled a drink cart forward on an L-1011. Unexpected clear-air turbulence. No warning at all.

My dh and I were in severe turbulence with both of our children one time, and if nothing else, that one incident sold me. We were seated in different areas of the plane. My son (with dh) in his toddler seat toward the front and my dd (in her baby car seat)and I were in the back. The turbulence was so bad that I could not even see her in the seat next to me. The plane kept throwing the bonnet of the car seat forward and back and I could not let go of the seat arms, we were being thrown around so much. I was afraid I would accidentally hit her. She was so little, I was petrified that her head was being thrown around, too. Finally, I was able to check on her. She was perfectly fine and slept through the whole thing. Dh later told me he was petrified (he had never been in turbulence that bad) but that ds was perfectly safe in his car seat. At 6'8", dh told me he was concerned he would have been unable to hold ds through that and was also sold on dragging the seats around the airports.

In the case of a rapid air leak (or "sudden loss of cabin pressure" as they call it when you are supposed to be listening to the safety lectures), the flight crew only has seconds to react. They radio for immediate clearance and DIVE to below 10,000 feet. The cabin can immediately fill with a fog due to humidity, items are dislodged and flying around the cabin, people are usually screaming, the engines and wind are roaring, you and your child may feel stomach pains due to gas buildup similar to the bends, and the plane is in a full dive. Do you want to have to try and grab a mask and put it on yourself first before hypoxia sets in, then get the mask on your child while you are trying to hold onto her/him during this chaos? It is estimated that if this happens at 35,000 feet, you will only have about 30 to 45 seconds max to do all of this before hypoxia takes over. I am not trying to scare anyone, but these things do happen on flights. They do not always make the news, but they happen.

That being said, we never took the children on international flights when they were young. I do not personally know the problems associated with international carriers and car seats. The longest flights we took were domestic carriers coast-to-coast and then Denver to Hawaii. Still, I do not believe that I myself would feel comfortable dozing on an international flight if my toddler was not securely strapped into a car seat. Other people may not feel that the hassle is worth it. It is certainly their choice.

Just my two cents worth. (And for those who ALWAYS ask the question, no I do not know the statistics of children who have been killed or maimed because they were not in secured car seats on airplanes.)

[Farrar]

The idea is more to protect the infant or lap-child that could be injured during a turbulence event because they were not strapped down. During severe turbulence I wouldn't want to rely on my arms to restrain my child.

 

If the child can be properly restrained by their own lap belt and will use it willingly and correctly then they don't need a carseat.

 

I've been in planes experiencing some pretty big turbulence, but it's never been anything near on the level of an actual car crash. I still just don't see the safety need. We've never bothered, and our kids have flown a lot of international flights now. For all the reasons everyone else has said, it's a huge hassle.

[Laura Corin]

In a real emergency, there would be no way that a parent, no matter how strong they believe they are, could hold onto their little projectile. During training, we were shown videos of "test dummies" in rough turbulence and hard landings. It was enough to convince me.

 

A small child was catapulted upwards and hit its head on the overhead locker. It was still unconscious when the plane landed. I don't know if it was in its parents arms, secured by a belt or sitting unsecured.

 

Laura

[eternalknot]

 

So that's where I am at... is the car seat on the airplane necessary for safety or is it one of those things that is an "American" thing?

 

.

 

Routine safety? Probably not.

Unexpected safety? Probably so.

 

I always bring a car seat. It's a huge hassle, but so is traveling in general these days. I could justify not bringing it, I could justify bringing it - at the end of the day, for me, it's an issue of "better have it and not need it, then need it and regret not having had it" -- at least in terms of safety.

 

I've made plenty of trips alone with multiple kids across many time zones. The whole experience is inconvenient ::shrug:: so isolating one aspect of it seems -to me- to be more along the lines of trying to justify leaving the seat at home. I don't care what others do, really, but this is one of those divisive issues that people sometimes take personally if you do differently than they do. Just make your decision, and own it. Don't try to rationalize it or justify it -to yourself, or to anyone- just go with your gut.

 

I totally get the need for cars eats in a car. They protect a child if there's a car crash. Car crashes are common and very dangerous and car seats actually work to save lives. I have never understood the safety element of using one on the plane. If the plane crashes, which, thank God, is extremely uncommon, then that seat seems like it's not so likely to help much. Has there ever been a plane accident where a safety seat saved a child?

 

Accident? No. Incident? Yes. Both turbulence (extremely more likely to happen during summer months and particularly trans-Pac flights) and even decompressions. Are they common? Thankfully, no. Would not being in a seat save a child if it did happen? Absolutely, yes.

 

 

I am a former flight attendant, so I come from the mindset that a child should not even set foot on a plane without a car seat. I am NOT saying that I feel a person is a bad parent if they do not use a car seat. I know it is a hassle and that it is not mandatory. I know that the chances of your child being harmed are probably very small.

 

And as a current flight attendent, I agree with everything MtnTeaching said ... but most importantly the above. Excellent and informative post!

[Heather in Neverland]

Thank you ladies so much for all the awesome responses. It has given me a lot to think about. I did check the seat for the sticker that says it fits the standards but it never occurred to me that it might not fit the size of the seat! So my next move is to measure the seat and look up seat measurements on our carriers (SilkAir and Delta). If the car seat we have doesn't fit then it may end up being a moot point.

[Starr]

The other thing to consider is if she'll stay in it. If she isn't going to want to be in the car seat then it just takes up extra space you would all have sitting next to each other. Whatever you do it will be fine because you get to take her to see your relatives. Yay!

[liberty5_3000]

A carseat is more comfortable for a little one to fall asleep in than just buckled with the lapbelt and nothing to lean on. We bring ours with us. Once we tried renting them and they were junk and more expensive than if we had just gone out and bought a new seat for the week.

[Forget-Me-Not]

I would take it on, if for no other reason than to avoid checking/gate-checking it and having it broken.

[AdventureMoms]

I would take it on, if for no other reason than to avoid checking/gate-checking it and having it broken.

 

Or lost. Because we all know how reliable the airlines are about baggage...