mazakaal Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) I'm aware of the basic conflict between the two, but because it didn't really affect me, I didn't pay a lot of attention last year to the details. I'm now in a position where I actually need to know what happened because I will have contact with Ham this summer. I don't want to get into details, but suffice it to say that I want my opinion of him to be based on facts, not hearsay. So can anyone point me to links for quotes of what he actually said that started the controversy or what he wrote about GHC, Enns, SWB, Wile, or anyone else he attacked? eta: Thank you so much to everyone who responded here, by pm, and by e-mail. I've managed to track down quite a bit of information now. You guys are awesome. Thanks! Edited March 29, 2012 by MeganP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Yikes. I can't say I want to relive this on the board, though I assumed it would be brought up with the convention coming up. I think your best bet would be to read the several very long threads from last year, including all of the linked material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvasMom Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Have you looked at his blog posts for that time period? I would go there first and judge his "fruit" for yourself. SWB has a post on her blog responding to it as well. He's actually pretty well-known for this type of thing. GHC's letter is linked on here somewhere and outlines why he was uninvited. Those would be your basic primary sources unless you can also get CDs of his sessions last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazakaal Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 I've tried to wade through last year's posts, and I've found links to SWB's response and the GHC's correspondence with him, but I can't find any links to what he actually wrote because he seems to have changed his fb and blog posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvasMom Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I've tried to wade through last year's posts, and I've found links to SWB's response and the GHC's correspondence with him, but I can't find any links to what he actually wrote because he seems to have changed his fb and blog posts. Wow, there does seem to be a number of posts missing. That itself should speak volumes. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Are you on FB? Last year I actually *friended* him (I know, it's a terrible thing ;)) but he was quite vocal on there. I was amazed to see all that he said, and how his friends supported him. It still astounds me to see the bias and mean-spiritedness that remain a year later. He wants to keep that ball rolling. I also enjoyed reading blog posts by Jay Wile at that time because he was so positive and fair. Sorry you have to have ham contact. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardening momma Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Wow, there does seem to be a number of posts missing. That itself should speak volumes. :glare: :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnitWit Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 You know, if you hold to YE/Creation, Ken Ham is not the only show on the road. Not being snarky. Some people are not aware of that because he is so...loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvasMom Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Are you on FB? Last year I actually *friended* him (I know, it's a terrible thing ;)) but he was quite vocal on there. I was amazed to see all that he said, and how his friends supported him. It still astounds me to see the bias and mean-spiritedness that remain a year later. He wants to keep that ball rolling. I also enjoyed reading blog posts by Jay Wile at that time because he was so positive and fair. Sorry you have to have ham contact. :grouphug: :iagree: I nearly became a vegetarian last year just to avoid any more exposure to ham. :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Yikes. I can't say I want to relive this on the board, though I assumed it would be brought up with the convention coming up. I think your best bet would be to read the several very long threads from last year, including all of the linked material. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gailmegan Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 :iagree: I nearly became a vegetarian last year just to avoid any more exposure to ham. :001_huh: Enns groupie! ;) :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paintedlady Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I'm aware of the basic conflict between the two, but because it didn't really affect me, I didn't pay a lot of attention last year to the details. I'm now in a position where I actually need to know what happened because I will have contact with Ham this summer. I don't want to get into details, but suffice it to say that I want my opinion of him to be based on facts, not hearsay. So can anyone point me to links for quotes of what he actually said that started the controversy or what he wrote about GHC, Enns, SWB, Wile, or anyone else he attacked? I think the fact that you see Ham as having attacked GHC, Enns, etc... makes it seem like your opinion of him is already fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Yikes. I can't say I want to relive this on the board, though I assumed it would be brought up with the convention coming up. I think your best bet would be to read the several very long threads from last year, including all of the linked material. :iagree: That was a very painful time for this board. Some cherished long-time posters (on both sides of the kerfuffle) are no longer here as a result. I hope you can find all you need to know in what's already online somewhere. Sorry it doesn't help that some fb and blog entries have been deleted. I find myself wondering if thatmomDOTcom has anything on this in her archives. Going to check that out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Really again? I almost left this board due to this kerflunkle. Both sides have reached an agreement and have forgiven each other. So why bring this up now?? :001_huh: Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazakaal Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 :iagree: That was a very painful time for this board. Some cherished long-time posters (on both sides of the kerfuffle) are no longer here as a result. I hope you can find all you need to know in what's already online somewhere. Sorry it doesn't help that some fb and blog entries have been deleted. I find myself wondering if thatmomDOTcom has anything on this in her archives. Going to check that out... Really again? I almost left this board due to this kerflunkle. Both sides have reached an agreement and have forgiven each other. So why bring this up now?? :001_huh: Holly I'm sorry. I didn't realize just how bad it got because I steered clear of the threads after I got the gist of the story. I don't mean to bring up painful memories or anything. Like I said, I'm going to be coming in contact with him this summer and want to know more about what happened before I do. I'll check out that blog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvasMom Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I'm sorry. I didn't realize just how bad it got because I steered clear of the threads after I got the gist of the story. I don't mean to bring up painful memories or anything. Like I said, I'm going to be coming in contact with him this summer and want to know more about what happened before I do. I'll check out that blog. My advice, if you will have to have face to face contact with him, would be to just not even bring it up. I mean, unless you are edified by hearing about what hellbound compromisers everyone else is. Whatever blows your skirt up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvasMom Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) Enns groupie! ;) :lol: :cheers2: :w00t: :svengo: Edited March 29, 2012 by tjlufkin Spacing between smilies was off! Ack!!! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I'm sorry. I didn't realize just how bad it got because I steered clear of the threads after I got the gist of the story. I don't mean to bring up painful memories or anything. Like I said, I'm going to be coming in contact with him this summer and want to know more about what happened before I do. I'll check out that blog. And I am sorry if I made you feel like you can't ask a question here! I do hope you find all you need in other places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazakaal Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 And I am sorry if I made you feel like you can't ask a question here! No worries. I do hope you find all you need in other places. Thanks. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnitWit Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Yes, I would agree that "ignorance *might be* bliss" with this. However, if you feel you must have some understanding of it all, I can tell you that it was very widely blogged about. I think if you do a google search with any of the names of those involved or addressed and then the word "controversy", you might get some hits. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverMoon Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 You can put "Ken Ham" into the search engine on Jay Wile's blog to get his take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 You can put "Ken Ham" into the search engine on Jay Wile's blog to get his take. And I highly recommend this! Jay Wile was calm, focused, and a voice of reason during all of this. Though YE leaning himself, he saw the bigger picture and articulated that well. I hope you find your answers. It was a toughie and well, the board came through but it had it's WOWZA moments so many here will be very reluctant to post direct information and that is, unfortunate, but for the best in this instance. Faith - best of luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gailmegan Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) :cheers2: :w00t: :svengo: You made me larf! :cheers2: I also was aware of the kerfluffle, but not enough to know that the discussion here hurt people. I'm sorry if my joking with Tiffany offended anyone. To the OP: I do hope you get the information you need to help with whatever situation comes up this summer. Edited March 29, 2012 by Gailmegan Smilie snafu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazakaal Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 Yes, I would agree that "ignorance *might be* bliss" with this. However, if you feel you must have some understanding of it all, I can tell you that it was very widely blogged about. I think if you do a google search with any of the names of those involved or addressed and then the word "controversy", you might get some hits. :grouphug: The problem that I'm having is that the blog posts just contain the opinions of the bloggers and not actual quotes from Ham, at least the ones I've seen. I'll keep searching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazakaal Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 And I highly recommend this! Jay Wile was calm, focused, and a voice of reason during all of this. Though YE leaning himself, he saw the bigger picture and articulated that well. I hope you find your answers. It was a toughie and well, the board came through but it had it's WOWZA moments so many here will be very reluctant to post direct information and that is, unfortunate, but for the best in this instance. Faith - best of luck If anyone wants to e-mail me to keep it off the board, feel free... chocomom634 at gmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvasMom Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 And I highly recommend this! Jay Wile was calm, focused, and a voice of reason during all of this. Though YE leaning himself, he saw the bigger picture and articulated that well. I hope you find your answers. It was a toughie and well, the board came through but it had it's WOWZA moments so many here will be very reluctant to post direct information and that is, unfortunate, but for the best in this instance. Faith - best of luck It's been awhile since I read that post. Wow...Jay Wile is a seriously cool guy. What a fabulous spirit. Check out his responses to some of the super snarky comments he got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amey311 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I'm not savvy with it, but I wonder if you could use the Wayback Machine. You'd probably need Ham's blog address and possibly some search terms, and possibly more help than the vague ideas I've given you. But it may be possible to see those deleted blog posts again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvasMom Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 The problem that I'm having is that the blog posts just contain the opinions of the bloggers and not actual quotes from Ham, at least the ones I've seen. I'll keep searching. Did you look? Jay Wile's post contains a link directly to Ham's blog post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvasMom Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2011/03/15/another-compromiser-speaking-at-homeschool-conventions/ http://blog.drwile.com/?p=4602#more-4602 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amey311 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 If you start here: http://thehappyhousewife.com/homeschool/ken-ham-uninvited/ (no affliation, she just turned up on a google search, and her links worked) and follow the links, you'll get to Ken Ham's FB note. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amey311 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 There's a problem because you can find links to some of Ham's blog posts (even without the WBM), but I couldn't find them via the archives. For example, I found this post (I forget the rabbit trail that got me there): http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2011/03/15/another-compromiser-speaking-at-homeschool-conventions/ - it's dated March 15, 2011. However, when you click on the "archives" button on the left side of that same post, there are no listings for March. I had started with the archives figuring that I knew about when everything had happened, so I'd just go find those old posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Wasn't a lawyer's summary of the mediation published? Maybe you can go dig that up. I remember it pretty much covered all the facts of the events and attempts at reconciliation that followed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I have the mediation report in my google docs, but don't know how to link it here. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazakaal Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 Could you e-mail it to me? Or is it a public document? chocomom634 @ gmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazakaal Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 If you start here: http://thehappyhousewife.com/homeschool/ken-ham-uninvited/ (no affliation, she just turned up on a google search, and her links worked) and follow the links, you'll get to Ken Ham's FB note. Thank you. I've managed to track down some good links through that blog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amey311 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 http://www.thatmom.com/2011/06/03/ghc-and-ken-ham-continue-homeschool-civil-war-with-called-off-mediation/ This blog post includes the report. Of course, you have to trust that she copied it exactly, but I'm sure other people can vouch for it. I swear it was posted here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amey311 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Yes! Here's the google doc: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277454&highlight=GHC+mediation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazakaal Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 Great. Thanks. I'll read that after dinner. I have some hungry children in the house. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 http://www.thatmom.com/2011/06/03/ghc-and-ken-ham-continue-homeschool-civil-war-with-called-off-mediation/ This blog post includes the report. Of course, you have to trust that she copied it exactly, but I'm sure other people can vouch for it. I swear it was posted here. Thanks, Amey, I thought Karen would have something on this. Megan, this link, as well as the earlier article the author refers to within, should give you a great summary of what's go on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeOrchidSong Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2011/03/15/another-compromiser-speaking-at-homeschool-conventions/ http://blog.drwile.com/?p=4602#more-4602 I really enjoyed reading the conversations between Dr. Wile and those who disagree with him. He sounds so gracious. I really like his view points. Even though I am more YE, I understand that there are different interpretations other Christians have about Genesis and I love and respect them. I want my children to form their own view while respecting other people's views without feeling threatened. I truly believe that Dr. Wile has won people over with his gracious speech. Edited March 29, 2012 by aomom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnitWit Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I really enjoyed reading the conversations between Dr. Wile and those who disagree with him. He sounds so gracious. I really like his view points. Even though I am more YE, I understand that there are different interpretations other Christians have about Genesis and I love and respect them. I want my children to form their own view while respecting other people's views instead of demonizing them. I truly believe that Dr. Wile has won people over with his gracious speech. I, too, was very impressed with the way he handled himself and others. It is what stands out MOST to me in my jumbled memories of all that I read during that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I read all 5 pages looking for kilts. :glare:;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcelmer Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) Wasn't a lawyer's summary of the mediation published? Maybe you can go dig that up. I remember it pretty much covered all the facts of the events and attempts at reconciliation that followed. The AIG blog has a post about that here http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2011/03/22/kicked-out-homeschool-conferences 3rd paragraph... I would just try to steer clear of the whole mess during your contact if at all possible. Edited March 29, 2012 by lcelmer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrookValley. Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I read all 5 pages looking for kilts. :glare:;) Me. Too. Ok, well that and because the thread had the word "kerfluffle" in the title. Apparently, I cannot resist a good kerfluffle. :D (Sorry, I have no idea who Ham or GHC are. OP, I hope you found the information you needed, and I apologize for the o/t intteruption) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amey311 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 This post: I read all 5 pages looking for kilts. :glare:;) followed by this post (I missed the quote) The AIG blog has a post about that here http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2011/03/22/kicked-out-homeschool-conferences Made me kind of :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Really again? I almost left this board due to this kerflunkle. Both sides have reached an agreement and have forgiven each other. So why bring this up now?? :001_huh: Holly Because those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. Knowledge is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I think the fact that you see Ham as having attacked GHC, Enns, etc... makes it seem like your opinion of him is already fixed. He suggested they and SWB were agents of the Antichrist and deserved millstones around their necks followed by a toss into the sea. I'd label that an "attack." Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karis Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 He suggested they and SWB were agents of the Antichrist and deserved millstones around their necks followed by a toss into the sea. I'd label that an "attack." Bill WHAAAT?? Ok, HOW did I miss THAT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 He suggested they and SWB were agents of the Antichrist and deserved millstones around their necks followed by a toss into the sea. I'd label that an "attack." Bill :iagree: I was avoiding this thread cause I didn't want to get all grouchy about it again but I agree with Spy Car. Saying terrible things about people then playing victim was not cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Anyone have the cartoon he commissioned (and then had to withdraw because even his supporters found it in such bad taste) of the tidal-wave labeled "Compromisers" (Ham's term for people like Enns and SWB who are undermining the bible, according to Ham) that wipes out humanity? Bad memories :glare: Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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