Spinoff question--discrimination against Christians?

[TheHomeScientist]

So, you're willing to be mocked for your lack of faith then? That's ok? And ppl can be as disrespectful as they like?

 

Seriously?

 

I consider it a complete lack of manners, common courtesy, and simple basic respect to mock or disrespect *anyones* belief, or lack thereof.

 

What's so difficult about basic courtesy and politeness?

 

Mock away. Of course it's okay. We have a thing in this country called freedom of speech. Like all atheists, I'm used to it.

 

If you believe things for which there is no evidence, let alone things for which there is significant contradictory evidence, you should expect those beliefs to be disrespected. If someone believes the moon is made of green cheese, I'm certainly not going to accord any respect to that person's belief. Nor to any other fairy tale, whether religious or secular.

 

I do support your right to hold those beliefs, but you do not have the right to insist that others not say things that you find offensive. Ignore the opinions of idiots. I certainly do.

[mytwomonkeys]

I thought a faggot was something you smoked (?) aka a cigarette.

 

it's both. it's also a nasty greasy like meatball. i linked a recipe, but you can google it too. welsh faggots is the name.

[ereks mom]

I am not sure that "discriminated" is the word I would pick. But it is now SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE to openly mock and deride anything to do with Christianity but all other religions are off-limits.

 

Yes, there are those who make fun of Muslims or Jews but it is not considered socially acceptable to do so. People who do that are considered to be bigots, hate-mongers, etc.

 

But anyone can make fun of anything remotely related to Christianity and get away with it under the free speech banner.

 

:iagree: :iagree:

[Mrs Mungo]

:iagree: As only one example—the new network TV show Good Christian B!tches.

 

I don't think that show is mocking Christianity. It's mocking a certain segment of the population, just like every other comedy show. Or is Big Bang Theory offensive because it is mocking nerds/scientists/smart people?

[ereks mom]

Yes, I believe that the freedom of speech is often curtailed or attacked when the individual wants to speak about his/her Christian beliefs. Also, it seems to be fair game to joke or sneer about Christianity, when the very same people would consider it terrible to do the exact same thing in reference to, say, Islam or Judaism. People are so proud to say "I have Muslim friends" like it's a badge of tolerance (which would insult me if I were Muslim), but the same people would never be proud to say "I have Christian friends." They would say the latter more as a disclaimer.

 

Exactly.

[Impish]

Mock away. Of course it's okay. We have a thing in this country called freedom of speech. Like all atheists, I'm used to it.

 

If you believe things for which there is no evidence, let alone things for which there is significant contradictory evidence, you should expect those beliefs to be disrespected. If someone believes the moon is made of green cheese, I'm certainly not going to accord any respect to that person's belief. Nor to any other fairy tale, whether religious or secular.

 

I do support your right to hold those beliefs, but you do not have the right to insist that others not say things that you find offensive. Ignore the opinions of idiots. I certainly do.

Sorry, I completely disagree. You can find someone's faith, or lack thereof, completely baffling, but to disrespect the individual simply b/c they hold that pov is rudeness, intolerance, plain and simple.

 

Calling someone's religion a 'fairy tale' is incredibly insulting, and completely unneccesary. Is there really a reason to purposely insult others? Does someone having a religious belief somehow cost *you* something?

 

I really don't understand why anyone feels it's acceptable to purposely insult or mock anyone else, be it for religous reasons, race, socioeconomic status, gender, s*xual orientation, disability, age...

[PeacefulChaos]

Mock away. Of course it's okay. We have a thing in this country called freedom of speech. Like all atheists, I'm used to it.

 

If you believe things for which there is no evidence, let alone things for which there is significant contradictory evidence, you should expect those beliefs to be disrespected. If someone believes the moon is made of green cheese, I'm certainly not going to accord any respect to that person's belief. Nor to any other fairy tale, whether religious or secular.

 

I do support your right to hold those beliefs, but you do not have the right to insist that others not say things that you find offensive. Ignore the opinions of idiots. I certainly do.

 

So you think it's ok to be disrespectful to others? You don't think manners and being polite are necessary or even preferable?

Honestly, I'm a conservative Christian, and I don't care what people think of what I believe. But to be rude to someone for their beliefs doesn't make sense to me.

I don't try to make people believe what I do, or talk the way I do, or live the way I do. I don't mock people who believe differently. I fail to understand why this common courtesy is, according to you, unimportant, and why you are unwilling to have the same common courtesy?

[mommaduck]

In the UK it has that meaning, but not in the US.

 

Pasting my earlier post:

It's still not offensive the UK. A fag there is a cigarette. That comes from the same beginning as the meat things-faggots were bundles of wood used for fire. You see the archaic meaning all the time in literature. Linguists aren't sure exactly how it came to have an offensive meaning as well.

ty. My kids love Gordon Ramsey, but I had to explain to them that over there f*** was common and it was "bl***y* that was not acceptable. Here, the opposite is true. F* is not acceptable and bl* is not even thought of (and rarely used). Moving to Amish country also caused me to have to explain and use certain words in context...specifically those referring to mules, manure, and breeding dogs.

[Charles Wallace]

I don't think that show is mocking Christianity. It's mocking a certain segment of the population, just like every other comedy show. Or is Big Bang Theory offensive because it is mocking nerds/scientists/smart people?

And let's not even talk about Jersey Shore.

[simka2]

Wouldn't that be a breath of fresh air?

 

Really?! I think this is where shows like GCB get their plot lines. :glare:

 

I am already writing an episode in my head! :lol:

[GingerPoppy]

Yes, I believe that the freedom of speech is often curtailed or attacked when the individual wants to speak about his/her Christian beliefs. Also, it seems to be fair game to joke or sneer about Christianity, when the very same people would consider it terrible to do the exact same thing in reference to, say, Islam or Judaism. People are so proud to say "I have Muslim friends" like it's a badge of tolerance (which would insult me if I were Muslim), but the same people would never be proud to say "I have Christian friends." They would say the latter more as a disclaimer.

 

We have all these word taboos. The R-word, the N-word, gay, Nazi, Jew (in certain contexts), etc. So why do my kids constantly hear "good" adults saying "oh my god" and "jeez" at school and elsewhere? Why is it considered ok to say/write "Jesus F**'ng Christ"? Who would dare to type the "F" word in association with the word "Mohammad"?

 

I am glad that Mohammad Ali had the courage to be open about his Muslim faith, even though in those days, it was not really tolerated. Nowadays things are different for Muslims, and I'm glad. I wish they were better still. But why is Tim Tebow (among others) getting so much flak for being public about his religion? Granted, some would be offended were he Muslim and that public about it, but in that case, the people who pride themselves on being "tolerant" would be taking his side.

 

Recently an openly Catholic college was sued for having too many crosses in view when the Muslim student group had its on-campus meetings. Later I heard that it was not Muslim students who complained, but some outside (non-Muslim) group that looks for any remote excuse to stop Christian speech - even on Christian campuses. I have not heard of similar lawsuits involving the campuses of other faiths.

 

Obviously these are just a few examples.

 

I will also state a disclaimer: I was raised Christian, but I've studied all the major religions and do not strictly believe the teachings of any of them. I have a mind of my own. But I do believe that all religions deserve to be respected. It is not OK to disrespect Christianity on the theory that Christians are the majority so it doesn't matter. Respect matters no matter who you are. If people feel their own religion is freely disrespected, how can they be expected to respect others?

:iagree:

[Mrs Mungo]

But people are equating repeating a particular word out of habit (and not feeling or intention of insult) with mocking religion. That's just not the case. That's looking for a reason to be insulted.

 

:iagree:

 

 

Again, I *am* a Christian, I just don't go around looking to be offended.

 

“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 

To me, this implies that I should give people the benefit of the doubt and assume that they are not intentionally blaspheming or trying to offend me.

 

It's also why I started assuming that people who cut me off in traffic have explosive diarrhea and are in a bigger hurry than I am.

 

And let's not even talk about Jersey Shore.

 

Please, no. Although, that's more of a tragedy than a comedy.

[TheHomeScientist]

Sorry, I completely disagree. You can find someone's faith, or lack thereof, completely baffling, but to disrespect the individual simply b/c they hold that pov is rudeness, intolerance, plain and simple.

 

Calling someone's religion a 'fairy tale' is incredibly insulting, and completely unneccesary. Is there really a reason to purposely insult others? Does someone having a religious belief somehow cost *you* something?

 

I really don't understand why anyone feels it's acceptable to purposely insult or mock anyone else, be it for religous reasons, race, socioeconomic status, gender, s*xual orientation, disability, age...

 

People don't choose their race, sex, age, nationality, disability, sexual orientation, and so on. They do choose their beliefs. I would never mock someone for his or her race, sex, age, or any of those other things outside the person's control. In fact, I won't even mock someone for his religious beliefs, if he keeps them to himself. When he starts trying to enforce his beliefs on me, or to demand that I respect those beliefs or not say things that he finds offensive, that's a different matter.

[GingerPoppy]

Yep. I've been told I'm not saved, going to hell, have no morals, am depriving/abusing my children, and you name it. It used to bother me. I guess I was unsure of myself then. It doesn't bug me anymore. If anything it was always my understanding that mere mortals (according to many religions) are not allowed to speak for their god. So what business do they have ****ing me to hell anyway. :tongue_smilie:

Whoa, I can't believe Christians would say that stuff to you. What the heck? Not very Christian, in my opinion.

[Wheres Toto]

I don't think that show is mocking Christianity. It's mocking a certain segment of the population, just like every other comedy show. Or is Big Bang Theory offensive because it is mocking nerds/scientists/smart people?

 

:iagree: (love that show :D)

 

Although I did see a blog post that found BBT offensive because it mocked autistic people since the assumption is that Sheldon's behavior is typical of those with Aspergers/Autism.

[mommaduck]

I don't think that show is mocking Christianity. It's mocking a certain segment of the population, just like every other comedy show. Or is Big Bang Theory offensive because it is mocking nerds/scientists/smart people?

*snort* my nerdy son and I are the ones that love that show the most, because we get the humour. My husband enjoys watching Rob! with me because he gets the humour there. GCB has some things that I don't like, but, heavens, it has some things are that are only a slight exaggeration of some truths of certain so-called Christians (nowhere is it saying that all Christians are this or that way...but that there are those that use/misuse religion, particularly Christianity, to benefit themselves and take advantage of others). As for it not being pc for it to be so of other faiths, uhm, I believe it was a Jewish friend that pointed out to me that Jewish actors were pretty known for poking fun at their own Jewishness. Outsourced pokes a lot of fun at Indians. I'm sure there are more.

 

On the other hand, we had positive Christian based shows. Though Seventh Heaven wasn't my flavour or Christianity (I think they did this to be very general) and I disagreed with quite a bit, it still held a fairly good moral basis. The show In the Middle has a Christian actress and yet it pokes a bit of fun at the daughter's fundamentalist friend (a cross between Duggar and FLDS...we laugh some because we can relate some). For Richer or Poorer with Tim Allen and Kirstie Alley definitely had some insider insight to Anabaptist communities and jokes (so been there and done that).

Edited March 10, 2012 by mommaduck

[SKL]

But people are equating repeating a particular word out of habit (and not feeling or intention of insult) with mocking religion. That's just not the case. That's looking for a reason to be insulted.

 

When I was a teen and said "you're so gay" or even "I'm so gay" after my friend or I would do something dweeby (having absolutely nothing to do with homosexuality), I had no intention of insult either. But now if my kid says something like that in school, she will be punished. Same goes for "retarded" and other words. So why aren't the gays or parents of mentally delayed children said to be "looking for a reason to be insulted"?

 

I'm trying to raise kids who do not trample on other people's feelings - intentionally or unintentionally. I may not cover all the bases, but I am trying. As soon as I realize something might make someone else cringe, I try to remove it from our vocabulary permanently (or at least be very careful in what context I use it). I think it's reasonable to prefer that other adults do the same.

 

Just because people don't cry loudly every time they hear a word that bothers them does not mean they are neutral toward hearing the word.

 

Most people would not tell you if you had a booger hanging out of your nose, even if they saw it. But if someone does tell you, presumably you don't leave it hanging there.

[Wheres Toto]

*snort* my nerdy son and I are the ones that love that show the most, because we get the humour. My husband enjoys watching Rob! with me because he gets the humour there. GCB has some things that I don't like, but, heavens, it has some things are that are only a slight exaggeration of some truths of certain so-called Christians (nowhere is it saying that all Christians are this or that way...but that there are those that use/misuse religion, particularly Christianity, to benefit themselves and take advantage of others). As for it not being pc for it to be so of other faiths, uhm, I believe it was a Jewish friend that pointed out to me that Jewish actors were pretty known for poking fun at their own Jewishness. Outsourced pokes a lot of fun at Indians. I'm sure there are more.

 

Actually, going back to The Big Bang Theory - they poke fun at Indians (Raj), Jews (Howard and his mother), Christians (Sheldon's mother), nerds, blondes, waitresses, actresses, scientists, speech impediments (Kripky) and I'm sure just about anyone they can think of.

[TheHomeScientist]

So you think it's ok to be disrespectful to others? You don't think manners and being polite are necessary or even preferable?

Honestly, I'm a conservative Christian, and I don't care what people think of what I believe. But to be rude to someone for their beliefs doesn't make sense to me.

I don't try to make people believe what I do, or talk the way I do, or live the way I do. I don't mock people who believe differently. I fail to understand why this common courtesy is, according to you, unimportant, and why you are unwilling to have the same common courtesy?

 

Rudeness is in the eye of the beholder. Anyone can choose to be offended for any reason, or for no reason at all. I don't care what you believe. Your beliefs do not offend me, as long as you practice them privately and leave others in peace to practice their own beliefs. If you attempt to force others to act or speak or believe according to your own beliefs, that's where I draw the line.

[AdventureMoms]

Whoa, I can't believe Christians would say that stuff to you. What the heck? Not very Christian, in my opinion.

Lol, that's pretty mild stuff. I agree it does not seem very Christian to me either. However being a gay atheist, I've heard all of that and far, far worse from Christians. Not most Christians, mind, but enough that you do get used to it.

 

I wonder sometimes if Christians in the US have spent so long being basically unassailable that anything that weakens their long-held special status feels like discrimination. While those of us who have long been discriminated against feel pretty good about being LESS discriminated against. It bothers me less when people say those sorts of things to me, because I'm starting to get real rights, so it's easier to let the ridiculous words roll off.

[jenangelcat]

yes.

 

 

 

In some ways it's very subtle: "Holiday [cards, gifts, etc.] instead of Christmas trees, Christmas cards, Christmas parties. (A big shopping center here in town puts up a "Community Tree." Really? :glare:) Christmas carols not sung in schools, the White House not holding its annual day of prayer, forced to provide health care "services" which violate their religious beliefs.

 

 

 

Specifically anti-Christian. P

 

Those things aren't anti-Chrisitan. They are trying to be inclusive to those that celebrate Christmas without religion, and/or keeping religion out of government. It's not discrimination. Workers rights have to be protected regardless of the religion of their employer. Like it or not you can't go around acting like everyone is Christian or should be treated like they are when it's just not true.

[Mrs Mungo]

When I was a teen and said "you're so gay" or even "I'm so gay" my friend or I would do something dweeby (having absolutely nothing to do with homosexuality), I had no intention of insult either. But now if my kid says something like that in school, she will be punished. Same goes for "retarded" and other words. So why aren't the gays or parents of mentally delayed children said to be "looking for a reason to be insulted"?

 

Because you are saying gay=bad or retarded=stupid. Saying "geez" doesn't have anything to do with a person, *at all*.

[mommaduck]

Whoa, I can't believe Christians would say that stuff to you. What the heck? Not very Christian, in my opinion.

Christians don't need people to attack us from the outside; we do a good enough job of attacking our own. God apparently handed His Throne over to my BIL, because he's openly stated that I'm going to hell and taking the kids with me. DH is "saved" and the children have a slight chance of being saved. But there is NO CHANCE of my ever being "saved" or going to heaven...I'm just evil, thus saith BIL. Even worse, I think they now believe DH has lost his chance, because we converted to EO and now "worship idols".

[goldberry]

To answer the question, I do think there are occasional isolated events of discrimination against Christians in the US. However, I do not think that Christians are in general discriminated against in the US. I do not think it is a common problem. Of the examples that previous posters have listed, maybe 1 in 10 seem like discrimination to me. The rest strike me as "losing special privileges that Christianity used to have"..

 

:iagree: This thread is really surprising me in regards what some people consider discrimination. FWIW, I am a what most would consider a very conservative Christian.

 

I don't get why OTHER people saying OMG is discrimating against me or anyone. If I don't think OMG or Jeez is appropriate, it is totally within my rights and abilities to not say that myself. If I don't believe homosexuality is acceptable to God, it is totally within my rights and abilities to not practice it myself.

 

As long as I am allowed those rights without reprecussion (as in no one is firing me or jailing me because I choose not to do those things myself) then I am not being discriminated against.

 

Other people don't have to approve of my choices or follow my choices themselves. The fact that they don't does not constitute discrimination.

 

ETA, rudeness is whole separate issue. People are rude about a whole host of items, including religion. Yes, I wish it would stop! But rudeness does not equal discrimination.

Edited March 10, 2012 by coloradoperkins

[Mrs Mungo]

:iagree: This thread is really surprising me in regards what some people consider discrimination. FWIW, I am a what most would consider a very conservative Christian.

 

I don't get why OTHER people saying OMG is discrimating against me or anyone. If I don't think OMG or Jeez is appropriate, it is totally within my rights and abilities to not say that myself. If I don't believe homosexuality is acceptable to God, it is totally within my rights and abilities to not practice it myself.

 

As long as I am allowed those rights without reprecussion (as in no one is firing me or jailing me because I choose not to do those things myself) then I am not being discriminated against.

 

Other people don't have to approve of my choices or follow my choices themselves. The fact that they don't does not constitute discrimination.

 

Exactly.

[mamajag]

Whoa, I can't believe Christians would say that stuff to you. What the heck? Not very Christian, in my opinion.

 

I've been told the same thing more times than I can count, and when I point it out I invariably am told it's not real Christian behavior. It's not coming from fake people I promise. It's what I get from otherwise fairly normal people.

[mommaduck]

Actually, going back to The Big Bang Theory - they poke fun at Indians (Raj), Jews (Howard and his mother), Christians (Sheldon's mother), nerds, blondes, waitresses, actresses, scientists, speech impediments (Kripky) and I'm sure just about anyone they can think of.

Yep. Ditto for SNL. Recent episode had them making stereo-typing-Asian comments...but when a black-stereotype comment was made, the black actors pretended to be all up in arms. Honestly, most of this just pokes fun at our humanity and all our various flaws. We are flawed. Sometimes we see it better in exaggeration/humour and helps us recognise the flaws.

[Melinda in VT]

I think Christianity's position as the dominant religion in the United States has to be considered when we talk about Christianity being mocked.

 

It's more acceptable to mock a group you are a part of than to mock a group you don't belong to. Mormon comedians poke fun at Mormonism. Southern Baptist comedians poke fun at Southern Baptists. Catholics poke fun at Catholicism. Jewish comedians poke fun at Judaism. African Americans poke fun at African Americans. Irish comedians poke fun at the Irish. Etc.

 

Also, people who leave a group are more likely to write/talk/criticize the group they just left. People who switch from one side of the pro-choice/pro-life debate are often vehement attackers of the position they used to hold. New converts to or from any religion tend to be the most extreme. Etc.

 

There are a lot of Christians in this country. There are a lot of former Christians. When you add up all the in-group mocking and the ex-criticizing, I think it adds up to too much for some people and it feels like an attack, even though a lot of it is in-group mocking. (Of course, Christianity is so fractured in this country that some in-group mocking is taken as an outside attack because those who are offended don't recognize the mockers as fellow members of the group.)

 

All this to say, I think it's important to keep numbers in mind. The secularists I know tend to criticize Christianity more than Judaism or Islam because they used to be Christians, not because they hold the other religions in higher esteem.

[simka2]

:iagree: This thread is really surprising me in regards what some people consider discrimination. FWIW, I am a what most would consider a very conservative Christian.

 

I don't get why OTHER people saying OMG is discrimating against me or anyone. If I don't think OMG or Jeez is appropriate, it is totally within my rights and abilities to not say that myself. If I don't believe homosexuality is acceptable to God, it is totally within my rights and abilities to not practice it myself.

 

As long as I am allowed those rights without reprecussion (as in no one is firing me or jailing me because I choose not to do those things myself) then I am not being discriminated against.

 

Other people don't have to approve of my choices or follow my choices themselves. The fact that they don't does not constitute discrimination.

I have been trying to type something like this and couldn't get it out. Very well said. :D

[Word Nerd]

I don't think that show is mocking Christianity. It's mocking a certain segment of the population, just like every other comedy show. Or is Big Bang Theory offensive because it is mocking nerds/scientists/smart people?

 

I didn't say it was offensive; I said it was mocking.

[GingerPoppy]

I've been told the same thing more times than I can count, and when I point it out I invariably am told it's not real Christian behavior. It's not coming from fake people I promise. It's what I get from otherwise fairly normal people.

Ok. I don't mean I don't believe the PP (or you). I'm just shocked at the ridiculousness. I run in Christian circles to some extent, and it's NOT the kind of thing I've ever heard--or could imagine hearing--from any of the Christians I interact with. I also would never speak that way myself. Christianity does not equal fundamentalism, and I think that's where a lot of the judgy-judgy speak-before-you-think stuff comes from.

[NatashainDFW]

In my line of work being a Christian can be career suicide unless you are working for a Christian publication. I cannot right about anything positive within the Christian faith without worrying about the backlash. On the other hand writing about how "stupid" Christians are is often praised. If I choose to write anything positive about Tim Tebow I get attacked for supporting someone so "stupid".

 

On the Tim Tebow subject....he has spoken about the whole tebowing situation repeatedly. He never expected his little moment after a touchdown to become something so big. Its not like he said hey come look at me, broadcast me, put me on tv while I do this. It is something he had been doing since he was a teenager. The media chose to highlight and blow it out of proportion. Remember that the media chooses what they will show at a game not the players.

 

I have also have an issue with people who feel they need to call my religion a fairy tale or to mock me and my children because of our beliefs. I am not forcing you to share in my beliefs, in fact I won't even discuss them with you but on the same hand you should have the common decency to not be offensive on purpose. I am not saying all atheists do this but I know quite a few who say my beliefs are fairy tales because they are aiming to offend and they know they succeed.

[mommaduck]

My mother used to pull my headcovering off every time she hugged me. I considered it personal harassment, not persecution or discrimination ;)

[SKL]

Because you are saying gay=bad or retarded=stupid. Saying "geez" doesn't have anything to do with a person, *at all*.

 

No, saying "jeez" is a violation of the 2nd commandment. Big deal to some people. Bigger than mildly insulting another human, to some people.

 

On the topic of "gay," I kinda wish the word had not been taken over by one small group. It was not that long ago when everyone was free to be "gay." The word "gay" shows up in popular recorded music that is not "that" old. For example, in West Side Story:

 

"I'm so pretty and witty and gay, and I pity any girl who isn't me today!"

 

And I have to explain to my daughters that "gay" used to mean something different back when their grandparents were growing up.

 

Honestly, I don't understand why homosexuals want to be called "gay" in the first place. What's so "gay" about homosexuality? The homosexuals I know aren't any more happy-go-lucky than anyone else. But their choice of label and what is going to offend them isn't up to me, is it? If it offends them and I know it, I should not say it.

[Mrs Mungo]

The meaning of 'gay' equalling 'male homosexual' has shifted here. If a person is staring at the same sex person's private areas (clothed or unclothed), other terms, which have lost their original, literal meanings are now used. If a same gender couple are making out or having sex in public, 'gay' isn't even mentioned.

 

Faggot origination -- was told in high school faggot=burden (of wood sticks for fire)=>shrew=>man who acts like woman. Haven't seen anything definitive since then from linguists.

 

"Yo", which you used earlier in your post saying you were a high school teacher, has been deemed offensive here. A teacher does not say 'yo' to a student, unless it's spanish class and there is more to the sentence. Generally it's an attention getter said among particular mixed race teens in lieu of "hey, D*bag, pay attention".

 

I gather from the discussion that those visiting Rome wish to tell the Romans how it will be, rather than do as they do.

 

Are you implying that CharlesWallace is a mere visitor? Check the member dates or the old board.

[Mama Geek]

I don't see any of the examples that people have provided as evidence of "discrimination" against Christians or their religion as discrimination. As others have said, many people seem to be confusing being treated equally with being discriminated against.

 

If you want an example of actual discrimination, until recently I as an atheist was ineligible by law to be elected to pubic office in the state of North Carolina, where I live. Imagine the outrage among Christians if the tables were turned and Christians had been legally ineligible to hold public office. Now *that's* discrimination.

 

I don't see examples here of non-Christians forcing Christians to accept non-Christian beliefs in their private lives. I do see examples of some Christians that apparently believe it's justifiable to force their beliefs on others, in both the private and public spheres. Government should be entirely neutral.

 

Christians can hold office they just can't use their faith to make any decisions. You know that whole separation of church and state thing.

[Mrs Mungo]

No, saying "jeez" is a violation of the 2nd commandment.

 

IN YOUR OPINION, not in mine.

[Melinda in VT]

No, saying "jeez" is a violation of the 2nd commandment. Big deal to some people. Bigger than mildly insulting another human, to some people.

 

As Mrs. Mungo says, not all Christians believe that.

 

Even if it is true, not keeping the commandments of a religion is not the same as discriminating against that religion.

[Charles Wallace]

:iagree: This thread is really surprising me in regards what some people consider discrimination. FWIW, I am a what most would consider a very conservative Christian.

 

I don't get why OTHER people saying OMG is discrimating against me or anyone. If I don't think OMG or Jeez is appropriate, it is totally within my rights and abilities to not say that myself. If I don't believe homosexuality is acceptable to God, it is totally within my rights and abilities to not practice it myself.

 

As long as I am allowed those rights without reprecussion (as in no one is firing me or jailing me because I choose not to do those things myself) then I am not being discriminated against.

 

Other people don't have to approve of my choices or follow my choices themselves. The fact that they don't does not constitute discrimination.

 

ETA, rudeness is whole separate issue. People are rude about a whole host of items, including religion. Yes, I wish it would stop! But rudeness does not equal discrimination.

:iagree:

[mommaduck]

No, saying "jeez" is a violation of the 2nd commandment. Big deal to some people. Bigger than mildly insulting another human, to some people.

 

On the topic of "gay," I kinda wish the word had not been taken over by one small group. It was not that long ago when everyone was free to be "gay." The word "gay" shows up in popular recorded music that is not "that" old. For example, in West Side Story:

 

"I'm so pretty and witty and gay, and I pity any girl who isn't me today!"

 

And I have to explain to my daughters that "gay" used to mean something different back when their grandparents were growing up.

 

Honestly, I don't understand why homosexuals want to be called "gay" in the first place. What's so "gay" about homosexuality? The homosexuals I know aren't any more happy-go-lucky than anyone else. But their choice of label and what is going to offend them isn't up to me, is it? If it offends them and I know it, I should not say it.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong:

I thought "gay" was initially used as a derogatory comment towards homosexuals (when it first became used in that context, not original definition), but the homosexual community decided to turn it on it's head by claiming it in a positive way for themselves (?). Same with "queer". I've known some lesbians online that actually prefer the term "queer" now. Thus, they didn't change it themselves, but someone else did for them and they ran with it.

[GingerPoppy]

IN YOUR OPINION, not in mine.

Does that mean I should ignore the opinion of a Muslim that it is a horrendous act to draw (and publish) a cartoon of Mohammad, and do it anyway?

[mommaduck]

So explain why I'm constantly hearing religious references in campaign speeches.

 

And really, is it even possible for them to do that.

 

Not that I have a problem with any of that, but I dunno, I wonder how people would take it if I were to talk about my atheism while campaigning. Then again, what's there to talk about. So I suppose that isn't comparable.

I think we hear it because it's a politicians way of reaching a group of voters. Just as "businessman", "family man", various ethnicities, etc are mentioned.

[Charles Wallace]

The meaning of 'gay' equalling 'male homosexual' has shifted here. If a person is staring at the same sex person's private areas (clothed or unclothed), other terms, which have lost their original, literal meanings are now used. If a same gender adult couple are making out or having sex in public, 'gay' isn't even mentioned.

 

Faggot origination -- was told in high school faggot=burden (of wood sticks for fire)=>shrew=>man who acts like woman. Haven't seen anything definitive since then from linguists.

 

"Yo", which you used earlier in your post saying you were a high school teacher, has been deemed offensive here. A teacher does not say 'yo' to a student, unless it's spanish class and there is more to the sentence. Generally it's an attention getter said among particular mixed race teens in lieu of "hey, D*bag, pay attention".

 

I gather from the discussion that those visiting Rome wish to tell the Romans how it will be, rather than do as they do.

 

Uh...not in my experience. Not at all.

 

The word "yo" is simply an attention-getter, and it is not specific to teens, nor is it specific to people of any particular race. It tends to be more specific to younger audiences; that is, I wouldn't say it to my father-in-law, but not because I would be afraid I'd offend him, but because he might not understand the word. (I might use "hey," meaning the same thing.) I'm flabbergasted that anyone would find "yo" offensive in and of itself. "Yo, b****," yes, but not the "yo" part. It's certainly not taken as a substitute for "Hey d'bag."

 

Just in case we wanted to refer to the richardionary:

 

Definition of YO

 

—used especially to call attention, to indicate attentiveness, or to express affirmation

 

 

See yo defined for English-language learners »

 

Origin of YO

 

Middle English yo, io, interjectionFirst Known Use: 15th century

 

 

Oh, and for what it's worth, I say "Yo" to my students all. the. time. Sometimes I even say, "Yo, dude." Why? Partly for humor -- the contrast between my appearance/position and my diction is humorous on its face; it also says, "I am not restricted to teacher-culture." For the same reason, I also enjoy drawing parallels between carpe diem philosophy and songs by Ne-Yo, or by pointing out the similarities between Jay Gatsby and Pitbull.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Charles Wallace

[PeacefulChaos]

:iagree: This thread is really surprising me in regards what some people consider discrimination. FWIW, I am a what most would consider a very conservative Christian.

 

I don't get why OTHER people saying OMG is discrimating against me or anyone. If I don't think OMG or Jeez is appropriate, it is totally within my rights and abilities to not say that myself. If I don't believe homosexuality is acceptable to God, it is totally within my rights and abilities to not practice it myself.

 

As long as I am allowed those rights without reprecussion (as in no one is firing me or jailing me because I choose not to do those things myself) then I am not being discriminated against.

 

Other people don't have to approve of my choices or follow my choices themselves. The fact that they don't does not constitute discrimination.

 

ETA, rudeness is whole separate issue. People are rude about a whole host of items, including religion. Yes, I wish it would stop! But rudeness does not equal discrimination.

This.

Most of the responses I've read on here are saying the same.

[AdventureMoms]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong:

I thought "gay" was initially used as a derogatory comment towards homosexuals (when it first became used in that context, not original definition), but the homosexual community decided to turn it on it's head by claiming it in a positive way for themselves (?). Same with "queer". I've known some lesbians online that actually prefer the term "queer" now. Thus, they didn't change it themselves, but someone else did for them and they ran with it.

 

This is correct. Most do not consider "gay" to be derogatory anymore unless it is used in a derogatory manner, because it has been "reclaimed". Queer is similar, but a bit more controversial. Queer is considered more general though.

[mommaduck]

I think it is a lot about the context. Some girls/ladies/women call each other b*tiches. But they don't want to be called that by some guy who is trying to insult them.

Same with the *n* word...and that depends upon the ending ('a' vs 'er' and who is speaking to whom).

[TranquilMind]

Yes, I believe that the freedom of speech is often curtailed or attacked when the individual wants to speak about his/her Christian beliefs. Also, it seems to be fair game to joke or sneer about Christianity, when the very same people would consider it terrible to do the exact same thing in reference to, say, Islam or Judaism. People are so proud to say "I have Muslim friends" like it's a badge of tolerance (which would insult me if I were Muslim), but the same people would never be proud to say "I have Christian friends." They would say the latter more as a disclaimer.

 

We have all these word taboos. The R-word, the N-word, gay, Nazi, Jew (in certain contexts), etc. So why do my kids constantly hear "good" adults saying "oh my god" and "jeez" at school and elsewhere? Why is it considered ok to say/write "Jesus F**'ng Christ"? Who would dare to type the "F" word in association with the word "Mohammad"?

 

I am glad that Mohammad Ali had the courage to be open about his Muslim faith, even though in those days, it was not really tolerated. Nowadays things are different for Muslims, and I'm glad. I wish they were better still. But why is Tim Tebow (among others) getting so much flak for being public about his religion? Granted, some would be offended were he Muslim and that public about it, but in that case, the people who pride themselves on being "tolerant" would be taking his side.

 

Recently an openly Catholic college was sued for having too many crosses in view when the Muslim student group had its on-campus meetings. Later I heard that it was not Muslim students who complained, but some outside (non-Muslim) group that looks for any remote excuse to stop Christian speech - even on Christian campuses. I have not heard of similar lawsuits involving the campuses of other faiths.

 

Obviously these are just a few examples.

 

I will also state a disclaimer: I was raised Christian, but I've studied all the major religions and do not strictly believe the teachings of any of them. I have a mind of my own. But I do believe that all religions deserve to be respected. It is not OK to disrespect Christianity on the theory that Christians are the majority so it doesn't matter. Respect matters no matter who you are. If people feel their own religion is freely disrespected, how can they be expected to respect others?

 

Well, I don't see a standing ovation smiley, but assume that there is one. I would insert it right (here).

 

The "tolerance" only goes one way. You are so correct. You hit the nail on the head with the word taboo thing, which I call code words. There was a situation in a nearby school this week that was bad, and a violation of school policy (assume graphic sexual involvement). NOTHING was done at all because this situation touched on two of the code words. If it had been anyone else, other than someone in the "untouchable" category, the kids involved would have been expelled.

 

This really makes me angry. Had some kid proselytized about Jesus Christ on the steps of the school or the courtyard, that kid would have been removed. But by golly if you are (insert code words) and going at it sexually, NOTHING is done.

[nmoira]

I teach my children: Never trust someone without a sense of humour, because they don't have your best interests at heart. :tongue_smilie:

 

It's more acceptable to mock a group you are a part of than to mock a group you don't belong to.

It also has more comedic value, as does mocking/poking fun at/etc. groups at your level or above you in terms of relative power or representation. I think it was Bill Bailey who brought this up in the context of ethnic jokes. The English make fun of the French and vice versa and it's funny because they are on equal footing. There's no comedic value (except for a minority :glare:) in people in making fun of the situation in Somalia.

 

But that's assuming we're only looking for a laugh. Humour has the power to pop ideological balloons, and IMO is preferable to many of the alternatives.

[amey311]

Whoa, I can't believe Christians would say that stuff to you. What the heck? Not very Christian, in my opinion.

 

I had a 10 year old tell my 10 year old that he was sorry my son was going to burn in a lake of fire because he didn't have Jesus in his heart. I hadn't spoken about God or faith with that child (and I'm sure my son didn't either). What had come up was me mentioning to the mother that I was agnostic.

 

Also, let's remember that a large portion of Americans would NOT vote for an atheist, and being a Christian is a de facto requirement for most politicians.

[Charles Wallace]

I think it is a lot about the context. Some girls/ladies/women call each other b*tiches. But they don't want to be called that by some guy who is trying to insult them.

I think of it in the same category as the pro-gay group Queer Nation. It's fine for gay people to call each other "queer." I wouldn't do it, not being gay myself. For the same reason, I wouldn't use a racist term unless I were a member of that race.