Whereneverever Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Denise- is direct consent adoption an option? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Denise- is direct consent adoption an option? never heard of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Denise- is direct consent adoption an option? ??? What is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 ??? What is that? It's another adoption, privately in the us. There's a few states that don't allow them, but most do and there are agencies that photo list the kids for a second chance, usually as only children in the home. http://sos.ri.gov/documents/archives/regdocs/released/pdf/DCYF/DCYF_1094_.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Denise- is direct consent adoption an option? just looked quickly. I'm nowhere ready to even consider that. My dd does well for the most part, but she has her anniversary dates where she regresses. Those times simply are NOT easy. Everyone with a RADish knows this. Although it's not easy, it's not like we want to toss them to the curb. I love my dd. she is well cared for. I'm SO glad she ended up in MY family, more for her than anything else. I am not a parent who will overlook her behaviors, I am not an enabler. It's hard to be a RAD parent because you truly DO need to be strong enough to do it. Would I have knowingly adopted a RAD? No. But I did, so I parent her the way she needs to be parented. It's not like I'm the only RAD parent parenting in this manner. It's what they NEED. I learned this through my research. There are so many on this board ALONE who parent this way. Not all of them will state so publicly. I have my days when I can't wait for her to turn 18. I also have my days where I enjoy her so much I can't get enough of her. That's why the call it the RAD dance. I'm not continually living in a crisis. It may seem that way because of HOW we have to live now, but this is our new normal. I hope in the end I will say I was SO glad I did it. I may not. But it's NOT all doom and gloom, we have many, many more good days than bad. But when the bad comes, sometimes it's just really, really hard for me to get out of it. AND, it is exhausting. Absolutely exhausting. Constantly exhausting. But still, it doesn't mean that I want to give her up. If I wanted to, I could. There have been MONTHS where we've had no RAD issues. Do I still have to have her with me at all times? yes, it's a new normal. I don't mind it anymore, it's my new normal. Do I have days where I hate it? Of course we do. Many of us have troubling kids who are a ton of work. Not many are outspoken about it.:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) direct consent adoption is when someone gives another party consent, directly, w/out use of agency, etc to adopt a child. For example, Jane is pregnant. She approaches her sister, Joan, and Joan's dh Tim, to adopt her baby. The cpl agrees. All 3 go to a lawyer, papers are drawn up and signed, and voilia, adoption is done. That, in my understanding, would be a direct consent adoption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 It's another adoption, privately in the us. There's a few states that don't allow them, but most do and there are agencies that photo list the kids for a second chance, usually as only children in the home. http://sos.ri.gov/documents/archives/regdocs/released/pdf/DCYF/DCYF_1094_.pdf IOW, are you suggesting that Denise put her dd up for adoption?? Seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 just looked quickly. I'm nowhere ready to even consider that. My dd does well for the most part, but she has her anniversary dates where she regresses. Those times simply are NOT easy. Everyone with a RADish knows this. Although it's not easy, it's not like we want to toss them to the curb. I love my dd. she is well cared for. I'm SO glad she ended up in MY family, more for her than anything else. I am not a parent who will overlook her behaviors, I am not an enabler. It's hard to be a RAD parent because you truly DO need to be strong enough to do it. Would I have knowingly adopted a RAD? No. But I did, so I parent her the way she needs to be parented. It's not like I'm the only RAD parent parenting in this manner. It's what they NEED. I learned this through my research. There are so many on this board ALONE who parent this way. Not all of them will state so publicly. I have my days when I can't wait for her to turn 18. I also have my days where I enjoy her so much I can't get enough of her. That's why the call it the RAD dance. I'm not continually living in a crisis. It may seem that way because of HOW we have to live now, but this is our new normal. I hope in the end I will say I was SO glad I did it. I may not. But it's NOT all doom and gloom, we have many, many more good days than bad. But when the bad comes, sometimes it's just really, really hard for me to get out of it. AND, it is exhausting. Absolutely exhausting. Constantly exhausting. But still, it doesn't mean that I want to give her up. If I wanted to, I could. There have been MONTHS where we've had no RAD issues. Do I still have to have her with me at all times? yes, it's a new normal. I don't mind it anymore, it's my new normal. Do I have days where I hate it? Of course we do. Many of us have troubling kids who are a ton of work. Not many are outspoken about it.:001_smile: I didn't mean to imply that you wanted to kick her to the curb, just that there is another option besides disruption and placement in a residential facility. :grouphug: I know you love your dd and I think you are great for parenting her the way she needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 IOW, are you suggesting that Denise put her dd up for adoption?? Seriously? I am not suggesting that, I just didn't know if she knew that the option existed. Obviously taking that as a rude thing is TOTALLY what I intended! Thanks for putting the best construction on my post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 I want to point out again that even doctors and lawyers who adopted in our group didn't know about RAD before adopting. One pediatrician who saw disturbing behaviors in his child tried to bring RAD up to our group of 13 families because he did his research and he was concerned. Like me, we saw the behaviors of our RADish in most of the other babies in the group. It was astounding how the parents Would No Hear of any issues. It's sad, really. There's a reason so many uninformed families are gobsmacked when they do end up with a RAD kid. Most people DO research before adopting, as I did. Not many families knew as many adoptive families as I did. I heard happy story after happy story after happy story. I bought books, just the WRONG books. Not many learn about RAD beforehand because they don't know to look for something like that. I know I didn't. Not one family I know who has adopted, and I know MANY, knew about RAD ahead of time. It is up to the adoption agency to inform adoptive parents. Foster families are informed and educated. My adoption agency did NOTHING. My is COMMON. That is what is so tragic. It should NOT be like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 I didn't mean to imply that you wanted to kick her to the curb, just that there is another option besides disruption and placement in a residential facility. :grouphug: I know you love your dd and I think you are great for parenting her the way she needs. thank you. I know I have written here in crisis mode. I hope I have not given the wrong impression. I am so happy beyond words that the word about RAD is getting out. My crying out during the bad times is what did it. We always recover, we have a few months reprieve, usually. There are families who have this battle Every Day of the RAD kid's lives. They have RAD kids who try to hurt THEM, the parents. There are far too many situations way worse off than mine. I thank my lucky stars that I get breaks from all these behaviors. Not all do. I did call on disruption after my mom died. I just felt like I couldn't do it anymore. I called a RAD therapist who has spoken to me at length twice, knowing my insurance wouldn't cover him. He asked me to PLEASE not disrupt the adoption until I was thinking more clearly. He is right, it was an awful time to think of it. But I had found a family not only willing to take her, but WANTING to. I had to break the mom's heart when I changed my mind after talking to the therapist...... who I called to see if there was one last shot at help. ok, I'm rambling, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Oh my gosh - all heck broke loose here ... definitely ignore the nonsense!!! (referring back to all the deleted posts) How long ago did you adopt? I adopted 8 years ago. The wait time was not that long. If I remember right, the youngest baby was 9 months of age, with most babies being over a year old. My baby was 14 months. We adopted about 14 years ago. It sounds like the babies being much older was only for a short time then after the reorganization. Honestly, I didn't see much in the news about it after then. Who gave you the information you type about above with adjustment issues, not crying at first, etc? We got NOTHING. I wish I could remember if it was the agency or if it was just what I had read on the internet. But even though I did know something about how the babies might respond - or not respond - there was absolutely no information on what could happen, RAD, if the babies didn't get what they needed, or didn't respond to the parents' attempts. It's TOTALLY wrong that you got no information - and I'm assuming I know which agency you used based on your description. We didn't use that agency. When I used to rock my baby to sleep, she used to sound like she had a light snore. Her eyes would be shut. She looked sound asleep, all the while tears would silently roll down her little cheeks. I *NOW* know that this was because she was so uncomfortable being touched, rocked, and sang to. I'd place her in her crib, she would look sound asleep. I would walk out the door, and no sooner would I be halfway down the hall when I could hear her making noise, jumping, in her crib. When she'd hear me come back into her room, she'd look sound asleep. I know ths was a learned behavior, and I suspect she got scolded, or worse. Yes you're probably exactly right. In the few minutes we spent with a couple of the women from the orphanage, any time our daughter reached out, made noise, pointed - anything - they hit her hand and tried to quiet her - I had all I could do not to make them stop, but knew they'd be gone shortly. Our guide explained that they were probably raised at the same orphanage and that was just their way. She did not cry for years. Many/most times she cries now it is a way to manipulate me and is not genuine. She has shown anger around me ONE TIME IN ALMOST EIGHT YEARS. I was so hoping that the experience you shared with us a couple of months ago was the beginning of the peeling of the onion for her. I hope and pray that something will work for her. From what you shared, she loves you so much. :grouphug: I got some helpful information: wear a colorful necklace for her to play with. Bring suckers and snacks. Don't worry about healthy snacks, just bring food. Bring a toy or two. What to look for? Nothing. Our agency is a HUGE agency. I'd bet it is one of the largest, if not the largest, in New England. My daughter was home for YEARS before they started to offer workshops on attachment issues. I wonder if they give that information to people BEFORE they adopt. My take on the information I had - whether it had come from the agency or the internet - was that it was just a matter of adjustment and there was no mention of permanent behavioral issues at all. I hope that your agency is properly educating prospective parents, but if it would reduce their bottom line, I doubt it. Edited January 30, 2012 by Teachin'Mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Wow, Denise, I'm sorry that some people find it necessary to keep jumping on you. :sad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobela Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I want to point out again that even doctors and lawyers who adopted in our group didn't know about RAD before adopting. One pediatrician who saw disturbing behaviors in his child tried to bring RAD up to our group of 13 families because he did his research and he was concerned. Like me, we saw the behaviors of our RADish in most of the other babies in the group. It was astounding how the parents Would No Hear of any issues. It's sad, really. There's a reason so many uninformed families are gobsmacked when they do end up with a RAD kid. Most people DO research before adopting, as I did. Not many families knew as many adoptive families as I did. I heard happy story after happy story after happy story. I bought books, just the WRONG books. Not many learn about RAD beforehand because they don't know to look for something like that. I know I didn't. Not one family I know who has adopted, and I know MANY, knew about RAD ahead of time. It is up to the adoption agency to inform adoptive parents. Foster families are informed and educated. My adoption agency did NOTHING. My is COMMON. That is what is so tragic. It should NOT be like that. :iagree: Even though I had sort of heard about it, and actually taught kids with emotional disorders before marriage, I was very naive and thought that with love, routine, and good nutrition we could overcome any challenge a child came with. When we first started asking questions I remember one social worker telling me that I needed to rethink what parenting was - I needed to change my ideal image so that I could parent broken kids. Denise, foster families ARE NOT informed and educated. Maybe in your area, but not everywhere. I was not. I was licensed thru a state agency and thru a private Christian agency. Neither really addressed the issue. I was a foster parent for 5 years before a conference training was held in our state specifically to address RAD. Even then it was 'optional'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Denise, foster families ARE NOT informed and educated. Maybe in your area, but not everywhere. I was not. I was licensed thru a state agency and thru a private Christian agency. Neither really addressed the issue. I was a foster parent for 5 years before a conference training was held in our state specifically to address RAD. Even then it was 'optional'. Oh, I'm so sorry. You did mention this upthread somewhere. It really did shock me, because in my state the foster parents get a TON of information and training up front. I have met so many foster moms since I've adopted, and I was so disturbed to hear of all the education they got while I got none of it. I do know this varies by state, so I'm sorry to have ignored that. I should have said that in MY state blah, blah, blah.;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I am not suggesting that, I just didn't know if she knew that the option existed. Obviously taking that as a rude thing is TOTALLY what I intended! Thanks for putting the best construction on my post! It was a question. I was just kinda shocked. As an adopted kid, this is always in your mind...if I act bad...they will just pass me off to someone else.... Nothing personal...if you look through this thread...there is an awful lot of deleted posts...because of some really not nice stuff. Maybe I was being defensive. Faithe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 It was a question. I was just kinda shocked. As an adopted kid, this is always in your mind...if I act bad...they will just pass me off to someone else.... Nothing personal...if you look through this thread...there is an awful lot of deleted posts...because of some really not nice stuff. Maybe I was being defensive. Faithe thank you for being a good friend here, Faith. You and several others!!!:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Seriously, I give up. It's too much and I'm sorry I even presumed to offer a suggestion. Carry on and have at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Seriously, I give up. It's too much and I'm sorry I even presumed to offer a suggestion. Carry on and have at it. I hope I didn't offend you, and Faith did say that she is sensitive as an adoption kid herself. I don't think she meant any harm. I have appreciated your input, and I hope you keep it here. I know there are many RAD moms who read here, and there are also many who don't post about it publicly. It's all good. :001_smile: Well, most of it.;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 About fostering... Here, there is some info about RAD. I don't know the extent of it, since I haven't gone through the training, but I do know it is part of foster/adopt training. That being said... Fostering here is nuts. I've been warned, by more than one person 'in the know' that they will OVERLOAD foster homes...iow, they will put more children in the home than they would/should ever allow before licencing. B/c they make the rules, they get to break them. And heaven help the foster family that complains. CPS (our version of it is called something else, but I'll go w/CPS for familiarity of the term) is overrun, and there is a serious lack of foster homes, so they end up overloading the homes that do exist, for lack of a better option. Problem being, is then foster parents burn out, homes close, and there's nobody signing up to replace them...homes are closing faster than new ones open. I've also heard of some really dirty pool in terms of things that are said/threatened when a foster family says they're burning out and want to be done w/it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 thank you for being a good friend here, Faith. You and several others!!!:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: :grouphug: I know it is hard enough and emotionally draining dealing with behaviors that are so difficult to understand. I can clearly remember getting in trouble for some childish thing I did...and really wondering when the car was going to show up to take me to my next "Mommy". My mother NEVER insinuated anything like that....but it was clear to me from the line of foster kids that came and went....both in my home and in our cousins, neighbors homes etc. that it was plausible tows ( me and my brother...foster cousins etc.). That we could be next. Some of us were" naughty" just to get it over with already.... I know my brother was one of those kids....definitely damaged from birth...malnourished, alcohol syndrome, add, learning disabilities. He blamed my mother for EVERYTHING...even if it rained it was her fault. He was violent to a degree...had no impulse control...but, he " loved" my dad and tried to please him. That tempered his hard side... Me, I was aloof. I stayed by myself...did not cry, did not complain, did my schoolwork, read books....stayed out of the way and hoped they didn't notice I was still there :D This was nothing my parents did TO us....it was part of our psyche...who we were. Brother went to parents at 3 days old. I was in 4-6 foster homes after being abandoned by my birth mom at about 6 weeks old. I was just under 6 months when my parents got me. I remember the court proceedings.....I was almost 5 when it was finalized....by then, lots of the damage was already done and part of who I was....and am. Anyway, I just wanted to let you know how much I admire you Denise. It is not an easy thing you are trying to accomplish....and I do hope when it comes to the time that dd is ready to move on, that you can look back and say you did the best you could and you were glad you had the chance to make a difference in that little girl's life, whether she appreciates it or not. Isn't that really the only thing any parent can do? Faithe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I hope I didn't offend you, and Faith did say that she is sensitive as an adoption kid herself. I don't think she meant any harm. I have appreciated your input, and I hope you keep it here. I know there are many RAD moms who read here, and there are also many who don't post about it publicly. It's all good. :001_smile: Well, most of it.;) :iagree: me too. Didn't mean to offend...just clarify. And I am kinda sensitive these days. Faithe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caedmyn Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Seriously, I give up. It's too much and I'm sorry I even presumed to offer a suggestion. Carry on and have at it. TBH, I wondered the same thing...if there wasn't some way the child could be given to someone else if the family could no longer handle her. I'd gotten the impression from other things said in the thread that there was no possibility of that, but it appears that's not true. Obviously that would be a last resort for anyone, but it seems awful to contemplate that a family could be brought to the point of complete despair with no hope for reprieve and simply have to live in a nightmare until the RAD child turned 18. I'm glad to hear that most of the times things aren't so awful, Denise. I had the impression that it was absolutely horrible all the time, and I'm really glad to hear that you find joy in being with her as well. You have a lot of courage and determination and I'm glad your DD has you for a parent. Edited January 31, 2012 by caedmyn can't spell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 About fostering... Here, there is some info about RAD. I don't know the extent of it, since I haven't gone through the training, but I do know it is part of foster/adopt training. That being said... Fostering here is nuts. I've been warned, by more than one person 'in the know' that they will OVERLOAD foster homes...iow, they will put more children in the home than they would/should ever allow before licencing. B/c they make the rules, they get to break them. And heaven help the foster family that complains. CPS (our version of it is called something else, but I'll go w/CPS for familiarity of the term) is overrun, and there is a serious lack of foster homes, so they end up overloading the homes that do exist, for lack of a better option. Problem being, is then foster parents burn out, homes close, and there's nobody signing up to replace them...homes are closing faster than new ones open. I've also heard of some really dirty pool in terms of things that are said/threatened when a foster family says they're burning out and want to be done w/it. Equally as bad as this, it that a few of the states have a law on the books that allows a family court judge to force a licensed family to keep a child in their home for up to one year...a child they've asked to be moved because they can't handle that child or because they want to close their license. Ask me how I know! I did foster respite for a family that was best friends with foster parents who were ordered to keep a predatory 11 year old boy. The judge forced them to keep the child on pain of one foster parent being arrested for abandonment and anything else they could throw at him or her. Mom had to move out of the house with their bios and live with her parents while dad stayed with the 11 year old. It became a moot point when the child burned the house down. Thankfully no one was injured. It forced the closure of their license. The family checked the regulations for their county and found that they couldn't be licensed for foster care if they had a well and septic (urban county codes....most rural counties would have NO foster families if this were a hard and fast rule) so when the house burned they bought another which did not meet their county requirements so they would not pass the new homestudy...end of license. Though I would prefer to have most children with families instead of institutionalized, the reality is the system here is soooooo broken, that I'm afraid the state of Michigan is going to have to embrace the concept of orphanages because the number of children entering care is growing exponentially, while the number of foster parents is dwindling at about the same rate of speed! Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I want to concur with something Denise said about her son "kids with behavioral problems often develop them because they have a hard time with expressive skills.". I had this problem with my oldest who is now a man. He had ear infection after ear infection. At about six to nine months of age, I could see that he was getting upset because he couldn't hear us well and we couldn't understand him. I would go to the doctors. They would say, he isn't behind. Okay, he wasn't behind some kids but he was behind himself. This kept going on. I kept going back saying he doesn't hear. Just antibiotics and baby sudafed, over and over again. Fortunately, when he was about 20 months old- still not talking and being very frustrated and getting angry- we moved from Ohio to California. There the doctor recognized his hearing problem due to ear infections and set us up with an ENT to do ear tube surgery. CA also had speech therapy which he qualified for since he was not talking at all at this point. He got his surgery and within six months of therapy, he didn't qualify any more since he was now talking so much and so well. Yes, some kids are slow at talking but if your child is getting angry about it and particularly if they have had lots of ear infections, consider they may not be hearing well enough to talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I am so glad that Denise is sharing here on the forum - I have learned so' date=' so much as I was completely ignorant of RAD and the degree of "not bonding". I think this information is helpful to all of us to be able to be supportive of any parents of children who suffer with RAD and to help those who are experiencing the behaviors, but don't know what's wrong. BUT ... I can't see how scaring potential adoptive parents into not adopting is helpful - especially to the parents. It's okay to say that some have a problem, but feeding them all this information to this extent, I don't agree with. I'm sure that Denise wishes she had known this possibility - is this true Denise? - but I'm also sure that parents who have adopted children who don't suffer from RAD are very grateful that they didn't know about this possibility ahead of time as they might not now be parenting their child. [b']Do you advise parents who are trying to conceive of all the possible physical, mental, and emotional problems their child may have at birth or as an adolescent? [/b] I think most parents would consider that highly unsupportive and perhaps cruel. I guess I'm just such an adoption advocate that the approach you've taken with potential adoptive parents concerns me. JMO. :tongue_smilie: Denise, what would you recommend people do with this information as regards to potential adoptive parents? To the bolded: This analogy isn't even appropriate unless it's applied to something like genetic defects, and then--yes, physicians do give parents that info. For parents with no reason to suspect genetic defects--no, why would you? It's so unlikely. But RAD is common, not rare, in adoption of children from orphanages in certain countries and in adoption of older children out of foster care in the US. To NOT tell parents of what they could realistically be facing is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. And if a parent wants to adopt, but doesn't want to face the possibility of RAD, what is wrong with that? They know their limits, they know the probability, they make a choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Tap, Tap Yes, there may be a genetic tendency.But when you keep talking about your family and impulsivity- have they been checked for ADHD? After all, the hallmark behavior of many ADHDers is actually impulsivity. My son was more hyper than impulsive but my daughter was the opposite. SInce she wasn't that hyper, I thought she didn't have ADHD but couldn't figure out what was wrong. The developmental psychologist recognised it as ADHD and she was started on medication. Today, both she and I consider her to be probably a severe ADHDer. And yes, it does get worse with generations, particularly if two marry each other. I think dh is very mild ADHD and I am mild to moderate (depending on other things), my oldest is moderate, my middle is severe and we are investigating whether youngest d's problems are all depression or whether she also has ADHD without hyperactivity (inattentive type). I will strongly urge older dd not to marry an ADHDer, but we will see. Oh and dyslexia jumps around too as do many other mental and learning conditions. My sister had bipolar, my brother is OCD. My dh's brothers are one is a depressive, one is maybe paranoid schizophrenic or maybe paronoid personality or something like that, and the last is a totally addictive personality- alcohol, drugs, gambling, smoking, etc, etc. Zero self control. I think it is a great blessing that dh has escaped with only mild adhd and maybe a slight tendency towards mild depression and I have the mild adhd with generalized anxiety disorder (which middle has too). Our kids are two with depression and one with GAD. So far, no paranoid tendencies, no mood swings, no obsessions or compulsions. Now I can't say that depression is okay because my son had two bouts so far of major depression and that is far more serious than what my youngest has or even what most people call depression. One of dh;s brothers had severe dyslexia and our one daughter has mild dyslexia. So yes, there is inheritance but I do know that really what science is now finding that it isn't genetics versus environment but genetics as how it interacts with the environment. I am sure that middle dd got her GAD from terrorism- repeated exposures to terrorist horrors did take her already more heightened awareness and drive it into GAD. Unfortunately, she saw pne of the 9/11 attacks in person, had unfortunate encounters with other terrorist acts both in the US and in Europe - we had a vacation cancelled the day before because of 7/11, we went to Madrid a few months after their train bombings, and all over Europe we saw reminders all the time about terrorism- soldiers with machine guns, etc. This was her life from age 7-12 and I think it made the slight anxiety grow into something much bigger with puberty and the hormone additions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Seriously, I give up. It's too much and I'm sorry I even presumed to offer a suggestion. Carry on and have at it. I am really sorry for my kicking to the curb comment. Honestly, a lot of people have asked me privately why I don't disrupt. A lot. I answered it publicly, really, to everyone, but I quoted your text. I'm really sorry. I have appreciated your input!!!:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: ETA: OH MY HEAVENS. I already apologized. Oh well, two apologies are still good. ;) I didn't even have a glass of wine. :D Edited January 31, 2012 by Denisemomof4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 To the bolded: This analogy isn't even appropriate unless it's applied to something like genetic defects, and then--yes, physicians do give parents that info. For parents with no reason to suspect genetic defects--no, why would you? It's so unlikely. But RAD is common, not rare, in adoption of children from orphanages in certain countries and in adoption of older children out of foster care in the US. To NOT tell parents of what they could realistically be facing is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. And if a parent wants to adopt, but doesn't want to face the possibility of RAD, what is wrong with that? They know their limits, they know the probability, they make a choice. there is NOTHING wrong with that. NOTHING. While it's wrong not to inform people of the risks, it's even MORE wrong to outright lie about a certain country and tell how well the kids from there do.:glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 I want to concur with something Denise said about her son "kids with behavioral problems often develop them because they have a hard time with expressive skills.". I had this problem with my oldest who is now a man. He had ear infection after ear infection. At about six to nine months of age, I could see that he was getting upset because he couldn't hear us well and we couldn't understand him. I would go to the doctors. They would say, he isn't behind. Okay, he wasn't behind some kids but he was behind himself. This kept going on. I kept going back saying he doesn't hear. Just antibiotics and baby sudafed, over and over again. Fortunately, when he was about 20 months old- still not talking and being very frustrated and getting angry- we moved from Ohio to California. There the doctor recognized his hearing problem due to ear infections and set us up with an ENT to do ear tube surgery. CA also had speech therapy which he qualified for since he was not talking at all at this point. He got his surgery and within six months of therapy, he didn't qualify any more since he was now talking so much and so well. Yes, some kids are slow at talking but if your child is getting angry about it and particularly if they have had lots of ear infections, consider they may not be hearing well enough to talk. thanks for writing all of this. What I was referring to, however, is kids who don't open up, not due to a medical reason, just because........ I honestly don't remember what I read so I can't be certain, but referring to my child as I read it, I realized that all those years he didn't open up about anything meaningful, just joked around, spoke small talk, etc. was not good for him. I tried in my own way to get him to open up, he really doesn't. Even with his best friend, the friend has shared a ton and has told dh that my son rarely does. I read that kids like this need therapy to learn how to open up. At closer to 17 now, I can tell you FOR SURE that he'd never go to therapy. When kids are unable to do this, they tend to have emotional/behavioral problems. He was explosive when he'd address his thoughts. They came out all the time when it was far too late, even as a toddler. I'm really tired and feel drained.l Not from my RADish ;) If I had the energy to go try to find what I am talking about, I would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Faithe, Would you suggest people not foster after adoption? We have really been struggling with this question. First off, we want our kids to grasp, as much as humanly possible, FOREVER. Second, we told them "No More CPS" which will be true for them after finalization; but I wonder if we shouldn't get rid of CPS altogether. We considered doing only respite. We've done three almost back to back respites (2weeks, 2 weeks, 1½ weeks). They seem to "get" that these kids are just visiting for a very short time. There is no talk about next month, much less any other long period of time or anything else we'll be doing. And we could do just some weekends to help out. With either of these situations, we can make it where our kids almost never see an agency worker, CPS worker, etc. We considered just waiting for an adoptive placement, not taking ANY more kids who wouldn't stay forever. We considered just stopping altogether. This is our family....forever more (well, til grandkids :) Well, and there is a joke that according to some people, we'll still be young enough for a 3rd set of kids when this second set grows up. LOL). We just keep going round and round. For now, we've narrowed our "next kid requirements" so significantly that we've not gotten a regular placement since we decided to take another kid a month ago. No one is getting calls for even a twice as broad range. And we've made inquiries on a couple kids. I *want* to help children and families until we feel we can't do so anymore. I *want* another adoptive situation even. But more than anything, I want the children we HAVE to be as safe and healthy as possible. Happy would be nice too :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Equally as bad as this, it that a few of the states have a law on the books that allows a family court judge to force a licensed family to keep a child in their home for up to one year...a child they've asked to be moved because they can't handle that child or because they want to close their license. Ask me how I know! I did foster respite for a family that was best friends with foster parents who were ordered to keep a predatory 11 year old boy. The judge forced them to keep the child on pain of one foster parent being arrested for abandonment and anything else they could throw at him or her. Mom had to move out of the house with their bios and live with her parents while dad stayed with the 11 year old. It became a moot point when the child burned the house down. Thankfully no one was injured. It forced the closure of their license. The family checked the regulations for their county and found that they couldn't be licensed for foster care if they had a well and septic (urban county codes....most rural counties would have NO foster families if this were a hard and fast rule) so when the house burned they bought another which did not meet their county requirements so they would not pass the new homestudy...end of license. Though I would prefer to have most children with families instead of institutionalized, the reality is the system here is soooooo broken, that I'm afraid the state of Michigan is going to have to embrace the concept of orphanages because the number of children entering care is growing exponentially, while the number of foster parents is dwindling at about the same rate of speed! Faith This is HORRIFYING!!!! I can't even tell you how much this SHOCKS me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobela Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Faithe, Would you suggest people not foster after adoption? We have really been struggling with this question. First off, we want our kids to grasp, as much as humanly possible, FOREVER. Second, we told them "No More CPS" which will be true for them after finalization; but I wonder if we shouldn't get rid of CPS altogether. We considered doing only respite. We've done three almost back to back respites (2weeks, 2 weeks, 1½ weeks). They seem to "get" that these kids are just visiting for a very short time. There is no talk about next month, much less any other long period of time or anything else we'll be doing. And we could do just some weekends to help out. With either of these situations, we can make it where our kids almost never see an agency worker, CPS worker, etc. We considered just waiting for an adoptive placement, not taking ANY more kids who wouldn't stay forever. We considered just stopping altogether. This is our family....forever more (well, til grandkids :) Well, and there is a joke that according to some people, we'll still be young enough for a 3rd set of kids when this second set grows up. LOL). We just keep going round and round. For now, we've narrowed our "next kid requirements" so significantly that we've not gotten a regular placement since we decided to take another kid a month ago. No one is getting calls for even a twice as broad range. And we've made inquiries on a couple kids. I *want* to help children and families until we feel we can't do so anymore. I *want* another adoptive situation even. But more than anything, I want the children we HAVE to be as safe and healthy as possible. Happy would be nice too :) Pamela, we stopped fostering for several reasons in reality. The biggest were the lies and deceit of CPS and that leading to an adoption disruption. However, another reason was simply the stress it all put on our son who was 7 when we closed our doors to foster care. Even though he had never been in foster care, he was an adopted child. Once when CPS came to take another child to a different home, he thought he was supposed to go with them as well. He admitted at one point, as another poster stated, that he wondered when we were giong to pass him along to another family as well. The stress of children coming and going effects him to this day. Our dd came to us after we closed our doors (no one else wanted to foster a 4 pound preemie, and she was only to originally stay 2 weeks) and by the time her adoption was finalized 2 years later, he was asking when the worker would come and take her. He decided that the judge, ad litem, and everyone else was just feeding us a bunch of lies as they always had before since the adoption date kept being pushed further and further away. We wanted more children. Would have loved having more children. But with our ages (dh is near 50 and I am 42) and our children now, we have concluded that we are finished. Not to mention our dd does have time consumming special needs. For me to homeschool, which we are very committed to, I can't manage all the disruptions and special needs of any more children as we don't have family support and financially can't afford to hire help. We do still provide respite for foster families we know though whenever possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 To the bolded: This analogy isn't even appropriate unless it's applied to something like genetic defects, and then--yes, physicians do give parents that info. For parents with no reason to suspect genetic defects--no, why would you? It's so unlikely. But RAD is common, not rare, in adoption of children from orphanages in certain countries and in adoption of older children out of foster care in the US. To NOT tell parents of what they could realistically be facing is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. And if a parent wants to adopt, but doesn't want to face the possibility of RAD, what is wrong with that? They know their limits, they know the probability, they make a choice. That post is from a few pages back and my position has changed some due to the information from Denise and others. The post I replied to was not about a physician informing potential adoptive parents - just a person who read about RAD here. My analogy was not about a physician, but about a person who just decided to inform the pregnant mother about all the risks. Kwim? Anyway, as I've said, my position has changed. At no point did I think that prospective parents shouldn't be advised of the risks by the adoption agency. And there is nothing wrong if someone decides they don't want to take the chance on having to deal with RAD as long as they are also willing to take the chance that they could miss out on having a wonderful son or daughter. IMO someone who already has children would probably weigh the risks differently than a couple who won't be able to have children other than through adoption. It's the later group I had in mind when I wrote the quoted post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Faith and Denise, I am more than horrified about the foster care problem in MI. It seems tantamount to slavery or imprisonment. You try to do what you think is a moral thing- foster a child- find out that your home is not the right place for this child whether because of the dangers from the FC or maybe because you aren't the best person to deal with X problem (which probably the CPS never told you about) and then they force you to do it for a year??? Unless that was in the contract beforehand, I don't see this as a legal action. I could see someone who says I have experience with ____ disorders and ______ disabilities and please give me a child with one of these problems since I know how to take care of them. Then they give you a child with none of those issues but some you have no experience in caring for and the child needs to have someone with experience caring for their problems. And they make you keep the child even though it is not the best place for the child or the best use of the home. HOw incredibly shortsited and stupid! I have thought about giving foster care another try when our youngest leaves for college but I know don't think it is feasible with the lies and the way the system tries to trick you. I have much experience with ADHD, experience with anxious children, experience with dyslexia and with gifted children. I also have experience with a number of medical issues such as asthma, allergies, Juvenile arthritis, juvenile osteoporosis, and ear infections. I don't know sign language and don't know braille. So I could help many kids but probably not a blind child or a child with attachment issues. The way the system seems to be set up- I would end up with a child that would need me to be able to pick that child up or carry that child _ I already knew I wouldn't put myself down for anyone under 4 because they may need carrying and I can't do that well with my own arthritis-so maybe I am talking about a wheelchair bound child and wouldn't have any of the problems I do know how to handle. It is a crazy system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 IMO someone who already has children would probably weigh the risks differently than a couple who won't be able to have children other than through adoption. Yes, I agree with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhomemaker25 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 just looked quickly. I'm nowhere ready to even consider that. My dd does well for the most part, but she has her anniversary dates where she regresses. Those times simply are NOT easy. Everyone with a RADish knows this. Although it's not easy, it's not like we want to toss them to the curb. I love my dd. she is well cared for. I'm SO glad she ended up in MY family, more for her than anything else. I am not a parent who will overlook her behaviors, I am not an enabler. It's hard to be a RAD parent because you truly DO need to be strong enough to do it. Would I have knowingly adopted a RAD? No. But I did, so I parent her the way she needs to be parented. It's not like I'm the only RAD parent parenting in this manner. It's what they NEED. I learned this through my research. There are so many on this board ALONE who parent this way. Not all of them will state so publicly. I have my days when I can't wait for her to turn 18. I also have my days where I enjoy her so much I can't get enough of her. That's why the call it the RAD dance. I'm not continually living in a crisis. It may seem that way because of HOW we have to live now, but this is our new normal. I hope in the end I will say I was SO glad I did it. I may not. But it's NOT all doom and gloom, we have many, many more good days than bad. But when the bad comes, sometimes it's just really, really hard for me to get out of it. AND, it is exhausting. Absolutely exhausting. Constantly exhausting. But still, it doesn't mean that I want to give her up. If I wanted to, I could. There have been MONTHS where we've had no RAD issues. Do I still have to have her with me at all times? yes, it's a new normal. I don't mind it anymore, it's my new normal. Do I have days where I hate it? Of course we do. Many of us have troubling kids who are a ton of work. Not many are outspoken about it.:001_smile: This is how it is at our house. We go from about March to June with RAD behavior on hyperdrive. Then it calms down long enough for us to take a breath and even gets so much better sometimes that we feel we are really making progress. The time is approaching quickly and I already feel myself distancing some from my daughter. I'm trying to guard against it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 The lies and omissions are awful. When I got the call for my kids, I was told that they were being removed from their current foster home because the home couldn't follow minimum standards in regards to discipline. I was told that one child had x behavior that the former foster mom dealt with (appropriately) by Y. I was told another child had a congenital medical condition controlled by medication. Oh, and I was told they had minor speech delays. I was not told that these children had been involved withthe system their entire lives. I was too dumb to consider why this family, new to fostering couldn't go six weeks without multiple instances of spanking. I was not told half of the reasons they were in care, if I even know half of it now (at the TPR trial, I was surprised they focused on "only" the neglect; and yet that was so much more extensive than I ever could have understood). I certainly wasnt told aboutthe extreme abuse. I wasnt told about the behaviors they had in their first foster home (i could not have accepted them had i been told). I wasnt told ANYTHING the first psych report said about my one child which would have been mighty telling! I wasn't told I wasn't going to be able to understand even half of what the older two said andnot a word of the youngest or that they needed various therapies and Dr appointments. And then the issues thatshould have been addressed? How can thesekids havebeen in care all this time, but not one kinship placement, not one foster parent, not one cps worker made sure issues were followed up upon? My son's head is not just habit off. It is extremely misshapen in THREE ways! But he was in a foster home early enough that it could have been corrected! People want to think that is cosmetic but wearing glasses when your ears are off from one another in two ways is challenging! And all three wear glasses and two wear eyepatches because *I* decided to take them in before school started though they should have gone within the first month in care so I was told theydidnt need another until April 2012. Two had failed hearing tests in thepast which were never followed up upon. Ive taken the one in for FOUR tests as well as ENT visits because he still cant pass. I have to wait to show.medical necessity of treatment because no one else followed through for three years! The lists could go on and on. Seriously, that first foster family didn't stand a chance. I don't condone what they did, but I certainly can understand how it could happen. Oh can I mention another thing not discussed in training? Now I knew that this was an issue for me somewhat because it is the main reason we couldn't keep fostering the first time as well as why therewas a 14 year gap in times we fostered. But no one discussed caregivers PTSD or how challenging one's feelings towards the family andwhat they had done are. You have mild things like redirecting a kid when they KNOW you will follow through because mild discipline takes so much time for the kid to appreciate the seriousness of when the comparison is being thrown against the footboard of the bed, being beat with a belt, watching your mother's bones be broken, being pushed into your own feces, having yourarm slammed in adoor, being hit with a hammer, losing the opportunity for supper though you didnt get breakfadt because mom was hungover, being left outside, etc (note: above list is a sampling, not all related to my littlest). The anger that wells up inside as you are lovingthis child who is trying to get you to hit them is EXTREME. It is towards the parents, the system, etc. And you're exhausted because these kids don't sleep, cant sleep...so neither can you. When the screams echo in your head during the day...and torture you at night (white noise is no longer my friend!!!). This has gotten a little better for us. It sure would have been nice for someone to have warned us though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Faithe, Would you suggest people not foster after adoption? We have really been struggling with this question. First off, we want our kids to grasp, as much as humanly possible, FOREVER. Second, we told them "No More CPS" which will be true for them after finalization; but I wonder if we shouldn't get rid of CPS altogether. We considered doing only respite. We've done three almost back to back respites (2weeks, 2 weeks, 1½ weeks). They seem to "get" that these kids are just visiting for a very short time. There is no talk about next month, much less any other long period of time or anything else we'll be doing. And we could do just some weekends to help out. With either of these situations, we can make it where our kids almost never see an agency worker, CPS worker, etc. We considered just waiting for an adoptive placement, not taking ANY more kids who wouldn't stay forever. We considered just stopping altogether. This is our family....forever more (well, til grandkids :) Well, and there is a joke that according to some people, we'll still be young enough for a 3rd set of kids when this second set grows up. LOL). We just keep going round and round. For now, we've narrowed our "next kid requirements" so significantly that we've not gotten a regular placement since we decided to take another kid a month ago. No one is getting calls for even a twice as broad range. And we've made inquiries on a couple kids. I *want* to help children and families until we feel we can't do so anymore. I *want* another adoptive situation even. But more than anything, I want the children we HAVE to be as safe and healthy as possible. Happy would be nice too :) NO!!!! I would never, ever, ever suggest that!! I would suggest the adoption agencies be forcednto tell the truth. I would suggest that orphanages have strict oversight by an independent audit company...and has surprise visits...that babies are picked up, hugged, fed, cuddled, and loved until they find a forever family, ideally by ONE caregiver...or 2 who tag team from the beginning. NOT a group of hurried workers whonchange bedding...rewrap...stuff a bottle, and go on their way. One foster home kept me in a crib in a back room with a bottle stuffed in my mouth for a month or so....my weight as a baby ballooned, and my mother got me after that one....that is how I know. I had damaged eye muscles, and could not see. The agency did not tell my mom this, nor did they probably know. She figured it out when I started to walk and proceeded to walk into cabinets and doors. SHE brought it up and SHE made sure I had surgery to correct the issue. I had many friends come through foster care and the social services system in NYS. It is NOT pretty. At least now, they TRY to keep kids in one place. Back when I was a kid they believed it was not good for kids to stay put too long and create attachments to people they would not stay with....so they moved the kids out every year or so. My mother's wonderful friend Anne Weinstein, fostered hundreds and hundreds of children. She was loving and kind, she did respite and rescue care. I remember her picking bugs out of a baby's head, a baby whom was covered in bites...human and bug...and also had burns on him. He was a beautiful baby....I was just a little girl, and I remember thinking " how can anybody DO something liken this to a baby". And I was so happy for him that he was with Mrs. weinstien. The next week he was gone. The court gave him back to his mother....because she wanted him back...OY!!!!!! anyway, I think the foster system is broken...and unless that is fixed....and held accountable for what they DO and what they DON't DO.....it will stay broken. As loving and compassionate adults, is is a total travesty, and I thank God daily for people who are strong enough and determined enough to take care of some of these kids, to fight for them, to raise them and love them despite their previous heartbreaks and despite their potential outcomes. I still have many friends who foster, and also foster to adopt special needs kids. One friend had a RAD dd who nearlyndestroyed herself and their family. Shenis doing well in residential treatment now, but they went on to adopt 4 more special needs kids...2 sets of siblings....who are doing well. Another friend of mine does foster care and the system has piled them in to her house...2 infants, 2 toddlers, 2 or 3 5&6 year olds.....seriously! They make her feel as if there is not another family to place them with. They are a wonderful family, with lots of help and support all around them, adult kids, sisters & brothers, their parents etc. But, it is much to handle, and the bulk of the work comes down on Mommy. She is happy/exhausted, but I fear burnout for her. I don't have it in me to foster or adopt. I just don't. I always thought I would, but when the opportunity arose, I ran like h*ll! Itnfrightens me and is too close to my core. I would consider it when my own kids are grown and out of the house. It is not something I would want to approach with a house full of my own kids. I could not possibly provide the care and time needed without taking it from the kids I already have. I would never suggest that people should not foster or adopt. There are many kids out there who need homes and love. I just wish the system was held accountable for assisting these families in the most helpful, and humane way possible, for all concerned. Faithe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Equally as bad as this, it that a few of the states have a law on the books that allows a family court judge to force a licensed family to keep a child in their home for up to one year...a child they've asked to be moved because they can't handle that child or because they want to close their license. Ask me how I know! I did foster respite for a family that was best friends with foster parents who were ordered to keep a predatory 11 year old boy. The judge forced them to keep the child on pain of one foster parent being arrested for abandonment and anything else they could throw at him or her. Mom had to move out of the house with their bios and live with her parents while dad stayed with the 11 year old. It became a moot point when the child burned the house down. Thankfully no one was injured. It forced the closure of their license. The family checked the regulations for their county and found that they couldn't be licensed for foster care if they had a well and septic (urban county codes....most rural counties would have NO foster families if this were a hard and fast rule) so when the house burned they bought another which did not meet their county requirements so they would not pass the new homestudy...end of license. Though I would prefer to have most children with families instead of institutionalized, the reality is the system here is soooooo broken, that I'm afraid the state of Michigan is going to have to embrace the concept of orphanages because the number of children entering care is growing exponentially, while the number of foster parents is dwindling at about the same rate of speed! Faith Faithe, I think the question was about the adopted child's perception of stability. If it's damaging to the adopted child to have children that come and go, b/c of a statement you made earlier...you and your brother wondering if you were bad, if you'd be sent away. The comment about only one or two caregivers worries me (it was made earlier in the thread). B/c of my disability, Boo is cared for by 3 of us...Myself, Wolf, and Diva. Any one of the 3 of us responds when he cries, just a matter of who's closer. Granted, I do late nights, middle of the night, and tend to do most early am, but I'm now wondering if we're screwing him up b/c I'm not the absolute primary caregiver. Do I need to tell Diva and Wolf to back off and try to do it all myself? Physically, I don't know how well that would work...But if there's a potential of an attachment disorder, what choice is there? Now I'm honestly worried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Oh, and to add... I haven't heard of the year long thing, but I *have* heard of social workers delaying, delaying, delaying when a family requests a child be moved. Family gets more and more desperate, and sw drags their feet. How is that healthy for anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Faithe, I think the question was about the adopted child's perception of stability. If it's damaging to the adopted child to have children that come and go, b/c of a statement you made earlier...you and your brother wondering if you were bad, if you'd be sent away. The comment about only one or two caregivers worries me (it was made earlier in the thread). B/c of my disability, Boo is cared for by 3 of us...Myself, Wolf, and Diva. Any one of the 3 of us responds when he cries, just a matter of who's closer. Granted, I do late nights, middle of the night, and tend to do most early am, but I'm now wondering if we're screwing him up b/c I'm not the absolute primary caregiver. Do I need to tell Diva and Wolf to back off and try to do it all myself? Physically, I don't know how well that would work...But if there's a potential of an attachment disorder, what choice is there? Now I'm honestly worried. Oh!! Ok..... First off...you, Wolfe, Diva are a family. Boo loves his family. I am not talking about siblings having a hand in caring and bonding with their siblings. I am talking about a host of " caregivers" who come and go, change some bedding...pop in a bottle and leave baby in a crib to remain alone. Obviously, that is not happening in your home. It is GOOD for Boo to bond with ALL his family members especially Daddy and older sister. My Older kids have an incredible bond with my younger kids....they seek out time to spend with them...it is beautiful, and one of my big reasons for homeschooling.....the bonding between siblings. They are not going to disappear, never to be seen again...without a tragedy we will have to deal with if it comes. This is definitely NOT what I was talking about. What I was saying.....kids need to bond when they are young to a caregiver. They need to be held, nurtured, rocked, sung to, etc. In the foster care system, when I was growing up, they actually worked AGAINST kids bonding to their foster families. They felt it was psychologically BAD for kids to bond to their foster families and moved them around like carte. When they turned 18, they set them OUT. We had a bit of a turnstile family for a while. My mother stopped doing foster care when she saw the affect it was having on me and my brother. She had no plans to adopt any more kids...but did respite and foster care for a few years when I was a kid. Some kids we knew were " just visiting" and they were treated by us as friends at a sleepover, or cousins who would go home. There were a few, one in particular, who was with us for a couple of years, who we did not distinguish as being separate from US. They were seen as siblings....but weren't. When those kids were taken and redistributed into foster care...it was devastating. I need to go to work now. I just wanted to let you know, I was NOT talking about siblings or bonding with aunts and uncles. That is a good thing. Kids have the capacity to love BIG.....if they learn to attach early. I was talking about never having ANYONE to bond with...no one to hold you, no one to rock you or pat your back...as an infant...for a year or two....until theybfinally damage you so completely, they have to hide it in order to ship you off to some poor unsuspecting adoptive parents who have not been given the tools to TEACH that baby to love, be accepted and cared for. It is a nasty business. Faithe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillian Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Pamela, yep the secondary PTSD is a huge issue that needs to be addressed by anyone dealing with these kids...therapists, foster homes, police investigating, cps, etc. They all need to be watched and screened to watch for secondary PTSD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Thanks for the response, Faithe. I think, for my own sense of paranoia, that I'm going to steathily try and beat Wolf and Diva to the baby for a while. I *won't* tell either of them to back off, but I think I may try and hurtle furiture or something to be 'first on the scene'. *picturing hip checking one of them into the wall in an effort to get to Boo* Yes, I *am* that nutso paranoid. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Faith and Denise, I am more than horrified about the foster care problem in MI. It seems tantamount to slavery or imprisonment. You try to do what you think is a moral thing- foster a child- find out that your home is not the right place for this child whether because of the dangers from the FC or maybe because you aren't the best person to deal with X problem (which probably the CPS never told you about) and then they force you to do it for a year??? Unless that was in the contract beforehand, I don't see this as a legal action. I could see someone who says I have experience with ____ disorders and ______ disabilities and please give me a child with one of these problems since I know how to take care of them. Then they give you a child with none of those issues but some you have no experience in caring for and the child needs to have someone with experience caring for their problems. And they make you keep the child even though it is not the best place for the child or the best use of the home. HOw incredibly shortsited and stupid! I have thought about giving foster care another try when our youngest leaves for college but I know don't think it is feasible with the lies and the way the system tries to trick you. I have much experience with ADHD, experience with anxious children, experience with dyslexia and with gifted children. I also have experience with a number of medical issues such as asthma, allergies, Juvenile arthritis, juvenile osteoporosis, and ear infections. I don't know sign language and don't know braille. So I could help many kids but probably not a blind child or a child with attachment issues. The way the system seems to be set up- I would end up with a child that would need me to be able to pick that child up or carry that child _ I already knew I wouldn't put myself down for anyone under 4 because they may need carrying and I can't do that well with my own arthritis-so maybe I am talking about a wheelchair bound child and wouldn't have any of the problems I do know how to handle. It is a crazy system. Mi is a cesspool when it comes to fostering...it is difficult for me to imagine that any state could possibly be worse. I think Lies 101 is the first class given to new CPS workers. The good news is that not every state has a law on the books that can be used to force a foster family to continue to foster against their will...again, like I said, MI's system is the pus that grows on the pond scum of the most contaminated swamp! The other good news is that most counties will not ask a court for this injunction. However, when Whaley's Children's Home - the psychiatric residential treatment center for severally disturbed and generally older chldren - was closed, it did make it even more difficult to place the children with the worst mental/behavioral conditions. Equally as horrible, the state lost it's only source of pediatric medical/psychiatric experts and therapists who trained special families for these children. FIA (Family Independent Agency through which CPS places cases into foster families) has NEVER offered any kind of legitimate training for foster parents. Seriously, my mom and dad came home from their classes stating, "They didn't tell us one blessed thing we would actually need to know...total waste of time, total waste of taxpayer money, useless. We are probably in for one wild ride because we were given NO useful information." That said, the only cases of this law being enforced have occured in three counties...Genesee (Flint area), Macomb, and Wayne with Macomb's abuses of foster parents being infamously legendary. Dh and I have never lived near these counties, but I can tell you if we had, I would not have agreed to do respite care training because of how hideously they treat their foster families. So, one thing you can do is find a family court lawyer who can check the regs and interpret them for you. You may not be living in a state that does this. I would like to believe that there are a few states out there that actually treat their foster families humanely. The other thing that the state legislature did several years ago was cut the budget for foster care to the bone and rewrite the guidelines for choosing what level of subsidy a foster child or foster/adopt received. Tier 3 which is for medically fragile children and the most disturbed behavioral cases was re-written to such narrow parameters that you can be dealing with an incredibly severe case that is going to cost the foster parent or adoptive parent FAR more for medical/psychiatric services than the standard foster rate could even begin to pay for - if you think these services are paid through state medical insurance, you would be sorely mistaken....durable medical equipment is often not covered, the number of hrs. of in-home nursing care is so low as to be completely laughable if it weren't tragic, and mental health coverage is virtually non-existent - so with the near elimination of tier 3 coverage, many families who specialized in medically fragile children, began closing their licenses because they would have to go bankrupt to take care of these youngsters. It is now not that uncommon and especially in urban counties, to go into nursing homes and see little ones laying on beds alone waiting to die because there was no foster placement for them! Tier 2 was redefined as well. So essentially, unbelievably disturbed children can still be placed at only the standard per diem rate..given how much counselors and therapists cost and given that state medical insurance won't pay for it...what's a foster family to do? That standard rate doesn't begin to pay for the help needed. Most of these changes have taken place in the last 8 years...adoptions and placements made prior to those changes were grandfathered in at the old rates. Our pastor and his wife really want to do foster care when their children are older and were hoping that other families in the church would follow their lead. After doing a thorough checking into the system and attending a couple of support groups for foster families, they have since changed their minds and will not be encouraging anyone to get involved. They are willing, should he ever be placed in a church in another state, to check into it there. Dh and I really, really wanted to be fostering at this time in our lives. Seriously, I would still consider it IF I could get CPS to tell the truth, but given that the organization lies as easily as it breathes...calling it "child's protected privacy and need to know information which they don't think the parent needs to know" :001_huh:, it won't be happening. Well, I'll check back into this thread in the evening. I have some assignments to make for the boys and I need to head to school at noon...I've got an ACT study session scheduled for my juniors this afternoon plus some college apps (yep, some of my seniors have been dragging their feet) to motivate stragglers to get done. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 This is how it is at our house. We go from about March to June with RAD behavior on hyperdrive. Then it calms down long enough for us to take a breath and even gets so much better sometimes that we feel we are really making progress. The time is approaching quickly and I already feel myself distancing some from my daughter. I'm trying to guard against it. We should be good now until summer, but she may decide to continue on for while still. USUALLY she is horrific around the holidays, her birthday, (with her birthday getting MUCH better) but summer is always the worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Faith, DH and I looked into fostering about 4 years ago and we ran away laughing at how incredibly horrible the system in Michigan is. "Laughing" because our only other option was to cry in sheer horror. If I had not had a DH with a medical background, I would not have known to ask the questions we did. And we went with 2 other couples who backed out after that first meeting too. The very idea that we would NEVER be told about previous medical conditions just shocked the wits out of all of us. Every one of us at that first meeting was prepared and willing to foster children with serious medical needs. We get it. Both of those other couples went on to do foreign adoptions. One ended perfectly. One is struggling. DH and I bagged it. It isn't worth the risk to us when we have two happy, healthy children in our home. We cannot risk their well-being because some state agency lied about how very hurt those foster kids actually are. We found ourselves wondering about how we would even try to parent defensively like that and just walked away. We got NONE of our questions answered in that meeting. We were blown off comepletely with tall tales that couldn't even be medically TRUE instead. And our lecturer thought RAD doesn't really exist - that it's just parenst who don't want their kids anymore. He blew off a real psychiatric diagnosis. :glare: It will be the stupidest way any of us spent three hours in our entire lives. I guarantee it. One of my close friends works in the foster care system in Wisconsin and if we ever moved, I would reconsider fostering in another state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Faithe, Would you suggest people not foster after adoption? We have really been struggling with this question. First off, we want our kids to grasp, as much as humanly possible, FOREVER. Second, we told them "No More CPS" which will be true for them after finalization; but I wonder if we shouldn't get rid of CPS altogether. We considered doing only respite. We've done three almost back to back respites (2weeks, 2 weeks, 1½ weeks). They seem to "get" that these kids are just visiting for a very short time. There is no talk about next month, much less any other long period of time or anything else we'll be doing. And we could do just some weekends to help out. With either of these situations, we can make it where our kids almost never see an agency worker, CPS worker, etc. We considered just waiting for an adoptive placement, not taking ANY more kids who wouldn't stay forever. We considered just stopping altogether. This is our family....forever more (well, til grandkids :) Well, and there is a joke that according to some people, we'll still be young enough for a 3rd set of kids when this second set grows up. LOL). We just keep going round and round. For now, we've narrowed our "next kid requirements" so significantly that we've not gotten a regular placement since we decided to take another kid a month ago. No one is getting calls for even a twice as broad range. And we've made inquiries on a couple kids. I *want* to help children and families until we feel we can't do so anymore. I *want* another adoptive situation even. But more than anything, I want the children we HAVE to be as safe and healthy as possible. Happy would be nice too :) one book that might help you is called "Kisses from Katie" It is about a young woman who lives in Uganda. She has adopted 13 I think little girls. She says in the book at one place that it is overwhelming sometimes to look at all the people who need help in this country. I think the phrase she uses is "trying to empty the ocean with an eyedropper" But she says she is not called to empty the ocean. She is called to help the people whom God has called her to help. IF God has called you to be a mom to these kids, you need to be the best mom that you can be. If that means that you cannot help others, then you must remember that God holds these broken children in the palm of his hand. I would love to foster or adopt, but we have 4 kids right now and dh says that they come first (I agree, right now that this is not the time) I don't know what the future holds for our family, but for now, I am doing what I need to be doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Faithe, I think the question was about the adopted child's perception of stability. If it's damaging to the adopted child to have children that come and go, b/c of a statement you made earlier...you and your brother wondering if you were bad, if you'd be sent away. Yes, this was my main concern. When I stop thinking about ME and about all the other kids who need good homes, do I quit fostering because my (soon-to-be-adopted) children may not be able to perceive forever, stability, etc if other kids come and go? Will they always wonder? Or if I'm careful, can I make a big enough separation between their new situation and old to make a difference so they will see they are staying regardless of what happens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Yes, this was my main concern. When I stop thinking about ME and about all the other kids who need good homes, do I quit fostering because my (soon-to-be-adopted) children may not be able to perceive forever, stability, etc if other kids come and go? Will they always wonder? Or if I'm careful, can I make a big enough separation between their new situation and old to make a difference so they will see they are staying regardless of what happens? I think everyone does things and handles things differently. My mother was not good, though I am really sure she tried her best, to make us feel stable. Having the other foster kids come and go was emotionally draining to US, and my brother and I still cry when we think about it. STILL....40 years later! I would hope that things are different in the foster care system, but from what I am reading, it sounds as bad, if not worse. Quite frankly, you have to do what you think is right for your kids first. They have to be #1 priority, no matter how guilty the system tries to make you feel. It sounds like these kids have a looong road ahead of them, and are going to need tons of medical and psychological treatment. What you have to decide is if you can provide that to them....AND provide other needs to other kids. I personally, could not. Foster moms are amazing people. I am always blown away at how much they are willing to sacrifice for these kids. (The good Foster Moms anyway.) :grouphug: Faithe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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