Catholic Moms (or any other Christians who aren't shove-it-down-their-throat)

[Canadianmumof5]

It may be a public forum, but that doesn't mean that the level of respect should be diminished or ignored.

 

I don't get why people respond to threads when they don't have anything constructive to add :confused: It is especially frustrating when it is the Catholic threads that keep getting these types of responses. :glare:

 

I don't respond to unschooling threads because that is not our style and I would have nothing helpful to add. I would never go and post and talk about WHY I think it is wrong or why the others should abandon that style, or anything else that wouldn't actually be HELPFUL to the poster.

 

I don't have anything particularly constructive to add to the threads about atheism so I just don't post there.....would it be appropriate or even polite to start singing the praises of my faith on those kinds of threads????

 

Finally, the book recos here are great - I've already placed an order for several of them :)

[Lizzie in Ma]

I'm reading Paul Little's, "Know Why you Believe" with my kids. (15 and 11)

It is excellent.

[simka2]

I do not know if this will help, but I would tackle the belief in in God first and the specifc branch of Christianity second.

 

In light of that, here is a movie I loved it is one of M. Night Shyamalan early films. Here is the review http://www.reelviews.net/movies/w/wide_awake.html

 

It is set in a Catholic school and is the chronicle of a boys project to prove that God is not real. It ends well, but the middle is rather emotional and honest.

[Canadianmumof5]

So some of the posts were deleted already by the mod, but what is a rabbit trail??

[justamouse]

I do not know if this will help, but I would tackle the belief in in God first and the specifc branch of Christianity second.

 

In light of that, here is a movie I loved it is one of M. Night Shyamalan early films. Here is the review http://www.reelviews.net/movies/w/wide_awake.html

 

It is set in a Catholic school and is the chronicle of a boys project to prove that God is not real. It ends well, but the middle is rather emotional and honest.

 

It's on netflix instant play!

[jelbe5]

I would like to suggest "It Couldn't Just Happen" by Lawrence O. Richards. It is not Catholic, and you may not agree with everything the author says, but I think it is a good book and attempt to prove the existence of God by examining God's natural works.

[Parrothead]

I've not read the entire thread yet, but wanted to comment on this.

First of all, as you'll probably learn, telling people on a message board not to bother posting if they disagree with you doesn't really work. ;)

 

Second, I didn't say you should leave it alone. I said I wouldn't force her to go to church. That doesn't mean you shouldn't talk to her, answer her questions, put her in contact with other people who can answer her questions, and give her materials to read.

As Catholics we (the Aimee's family, I and others) have an obligation to attend mass on Sunday. We feel this is a grave matter and not fulfilling this obligation is a sin. As such Aimee should be taking her daughter to mass.

 

Aimee: The Prove It! series is excellent. Jeff Cavin's has a teen version of his Bible adventure - also excellent.

 

More than just reading I suggest prayer. Someone mentioned asking God to make himself known to her. That is a great idea. I'd also ask for intercession from the BVM.

 

Has your daughter been confirmed yet? If so, ask for intercession from her saint. If not, a good project would be having her research saints.

 

Some other things to do if she wants proof:

Google "Eucharistic miracles"

Google "Incorruptible saints"

Google "Fatima miracle"

 

Also put your foot down with her grandmother who is being disrespectful.

[Iucounu]

I think I'm being constructive. I'm just noting that there are really multiple prongs to this issue, in general. One is lack of belief in the supernatural aspects of religion in general: generalized belief in a creator, that sort of thing. The other (which in my experience typically causes young people earlier and more persistent problems when they start having these sorts of doubts) is lack of belief in the very specific beliefs, trappings, procedures, etc. of a specific religion or sect.

 

I think that's why there are so many agnostics, people who believe in a higher power but don't know just what it must be like, etc. They have retained a less definite feeling that a higher power is or may be, and so in varying degrees are religious, but haven't resolved their doubts about particular forms of religion.

 

This can be an especially tough problem for people raised in forms of faith that reject all other forms. Catholicism is obviously more open than many I've seen, but of course has its own set of beliefs that define whether one is a member (and saved) which one must adhere to. So even with Catholicism, someone who is further away on the skepticism-vs.-faith scale might run afoul of this primary problem: if one's doubting religion in the first place, what tells one to pick a specific religion over all others?

 

In my experience some practicing worshippers (including Christians) are open-minded about the actual form issues, despite following the practices of a particular faith. They may believe that, for example, the big modern monotheistic religions are all worshipping the same deity in different forms.

 

My recommendation for a parent who wants their newly skeptical child to not lose the benefits of religion is, first and foremost, to not force the issue. It's probably a good idea to continue faith-based activities, as while they may contain some aspects that caused the doubts, they nevertheless contain the more general aspects that cause one to feel good about a religion (fellowship, etc.). In my opinion appeals to reason may help a bit, if only to convince the child that plenty of people have thought about the same issues in the past (C.S. Lewis is an obviously good target for this sort of thing) and increase comfort. Still, I don't think logic is the thing that really pulls people into, and back to, religion, but rather the good feelings that it brings.

 

That's really all I mean. I'm not attacking anyone's religion, least of all Catholicism. A little objectivity can help sometimes. {shrug}

[justamouse]

I think I'm being constructive

 

That was a constructive post, the first not so much. I think perhaps you were trying to shorthand this latter post? I get into trouble when I try to shorthand stuff, too. People take a whole nuther meaning than the one I was trying to get across.

 

 

 

Chucki, you're right on the google searches. My doubting daughter has come a long way by reading on those topics. With the (her) respect that the church believes in sound science, those things are proofed in ways that other churches may not proof their miracles.

 

They may be fun for the family to investigate together.

[Ellie]

C.S. Lewis's Mere Christianity might be good for her.

[imagine.more]

I went through a phase like this around age 12-ish and my mom's response to me crying hysterically and telling her I wasn't sure I believed in God was to laugh at me. Not the response you should give!

 

Anyway, I agree with Lee Strobel's The Case for Christ, as well as Mere Christianity by CS Lewis. My brother asked me some hard questions at 17 about why I believed in God and I had been reading The Case for Christ and was able to answer almost all his questions, it was so helpful! Maybe even make it a homeschool subject or a family thing you sit down and do together. Also, start following the Conversion Diary blog and look at some of her older posts. Then I really think your DD needs Catholic friends and influences. Could you find a church with a strong Life Teen program she can transition into right after Confirmation? If there's anything within an hour I'd do it, she could get to know kids in the middle school CCD classes and it would make her teen years a lot easier. Just anything where she can connect with faithful Catholic kids/teens trying to live out their faith. We had an excellent one at my church in Georgia and it made all the difference for me.

 

I'll ask my DH if he has any other resources on the existence of God, the Christ story, and the basics of the faith, he works with confirmation age kids so he might have a lot.

[RegGuheert]

Any good book suggestions for her? Anything you can give me?

I will recommend my all-time favorite: Me, the Professor, Fuzzy and the Meaning of Life

 

In this tiny cartoon book, the author starts from first principles and builds the case that the natural universe is not all that exists and then goes on to logically determine the primary characteristics of God. (At the end of the book he identifies that as general revelation.) Then he moves on to analyze the various religions of the world and builds a case around the key question of "Who and what was Jesus?"

 

ETA: I meant to say that I am not a Catholic, but I do not think that this book would come across as something that pits Protestants and Catholics at odds. As a Catholic, you should screen it to see if that is correct from your perspective.

Edited December 1, 2011 by RegGuheert

[Wayfaring Stranger]

Not sure how old your dd is but I was very impressed by the logic in Lee Strobel's "The Case For Christ". http://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation/dp/0310209307/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1322718627&sr=8-3

 

 

:iagree: I just watched this with my 12 yo and she liked it a lot.

 

you might google/youtube John Lennox as well and have her listen to some of his stuff.

 

:iagree:

 

 

The evidence from the Shroud of Turin is compelling.

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YEivEc6KcI

 

 

And finally Father Thomas Hopko (an Orthodox priest) makes the case that the method the church uses to come to know God is the scientific method.

 

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/hopko/darwin_and_christianity_-_part_17_the_final_chapter

 

I think you let her follow the evidence were ever it leads. And continue to taker her to Mass.

[zaichiki]

Talking to our priest is out of the question. Our priest just got promoted to Charleston (I think) and was replaced. We don't know the new priest well enough for Autumn to feel comfortable talking to about this.

 

Did Autumn know the previous priest well? If so, how about calling him?

[AimeeM]

You ladies are wonderful.

 

Beginning pregnancy is having a lovely effect of migraines with me, so I slept in. I obviously missed something. I do sincerely apologize if I caused any conflict. I came to the board for help and support in this, not to cause problems. I requested certain people not to respond not because it would anger me; but because there are certain things out of the question in our home, so I wouldn't want anyone to waste their thoughts or typing time :glare:

 

I would appreciate if someone could PM me and tell me why there's deleted posts in the thread.

[AimeeM]

She attended the parish elementary school for years and he was the priest over the school, as well as Mass; he gave her FHC and heard her confessions. She did enjoy him very much. He had a lovely dog that he walked the campus with and let the school children pet. I will ask the deacon (still the same deacon) if he has a way we can contact him. Even if he is so busy that we can't call (he is now heading a couple parishes and, I believe, a school), it would be nice if she could write him.

Did Autumn know the previous priest well? If so, how about calling him?

[justamouse]

:iagree: I just watched this with my 12 yo and she liked it a lot.

 

 

It's on nextflix streaming, I just put it on my instant que.

[imagine.more]

I do not know if this will help, but I would tackle the belief in in God first and the specifc branch of Christianity second.

 

 

 

I agree, not everyone needs this but this was how I needed to work through things. First belief in God, then belief in Christ and the basic truth and authority of the Biblical narrative, then belief in the Catholic Church as the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic faith. It was a natural progression. That's why starting with Lee Strobel's book helped. Also, a look at physics, though some of it might be over her head, in 11th grade really helped solidify my beliefs. Taking things down from most complex to least and get to the level of an atom and then basically you end up at God as the natural conclusion.

 

If she's of a literary vs. scientific mindset she might enjoy CS Lewis' Surprised by Joy. His experience of Joy resonated with me and was further confirmation of God's existence.

[AimeeM]

Thanks! She is much more science minded than literary (she hates reading), and my husband's area of academic expertise happens to be Physics actually. Maybe I should let him have a *go* at her over lunch out or something. Lol.

I agree, not everyone needs this but this was how I needed to work through things. First belief in God, then belief in Christ and the basic truth and authority of the Biblical narrative, then belief in the Catholic Church as the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic faith. It was a natural progression. That's why starting with Lee Strobel's book helped. Also, a look at physics, though some of it might be over her head, in 11th grade really helped solidify my beliefs. Taking things down from most complex to least and get to the level of an atom and then basically you end up at God as the natural conclusion.

 

If she's of a literary vs. scientific mindset she might enjoy CS Lewis' Surprised by Joy. His experience of Joy resonated with me and was further confirmation of God's existence.

[Teachin'Mine]

Aimee has she read much about the lives of the Saints? The more you read about their individual lives and the miracles that they themselves didn't even talk about, the more you see the hand of God in everything. These miracles are scientifically proven without a doubt - otherwise they'd never have made it to being officially canonized a Saint. St. Pio, St. Francis, St. Joseph of Cupertino, the Blessed Mother, of course, through apparitions at Fatima, Lourdes, etc.. The more you read, the more overwhelming the "evidence". Then there's the Shroud of Turin, the miracles of the Host physically changing to the heart muscle, complete with wounds, of Jesus. To me, these kinds of evidence are more powerful than pointing out what's written - to hear the ways He makes Himself known to us through others.

 

She's likely hearing about the lack of proof and all from other kids, or it may be coming from her alone. I think it's important to validate that there are some who do not believe in God, but it's also important to let her know that there are many who do. Do you pray as a family? It's a great way to bring the faith to your everyday lives and the rosary is especially powerful. You don't have to spend a great deal of time, even five or ten minutes to start will slowly make a difference.

 

Just as we provide reading material for them to learn about science and history, it's important to provide them with books about the Saints, their faith, etc.. It's not the end of the world that she's questioning it all. :) You may even find that when she does come back to believing, after her questioning, that her faith will be even stronger. If you can go to Shrines and other holy sites, that's a great way for her to see that your family is not alone in their belief. Sometime in the general world, it's harder to see that that is true.

 

This site may help: http://youshallbelieve.com/?page_id=483

 

And the book "Reason to Believe" has been recommended in the past. : )

Edited December 1, 2011 by Teachin'Mine

[Carol in Cal.]

I found that the Narnia books helped me to picture how miracles could be 'one time' events and not on the observable continuum, when that issue reared its head when I was in high school. I had read them years before that, but they were really helpful then. The most useful ones for skepticism were the first and last.

 

Another really helpful Lewis book (although she may be too young for this) was the Screwtape Letters--especially the parts about daily piety and about the Church marching through the centuries together, with all its flags flying--that is helpful in valuing the common Liturgies of the Church through the ages as well as the Communion of Saints.

 

I would suggest that neither you belittle nor over-emphasize this faith crisis, as you neither want to magnify it nor stop your DD from confiding in you by driving it underground.

 

The most important things are to continue your current practices, calmly but without question, to pray for her, to read the Bible to and with her, and to share your own faith perhaps a little more verbally than you have usually done in the past. Do not underestimate the amount of influence that you have.

 

The fact that I can honestly say to my DD, yes, I have thought that question through, and come out on the other side of it, and here is how, about every question that she has ever brought up to me, has been valuable. Still, you don't argue people into faith. You merely clear away obstacles, so that they don't resist the Holy Spirit so much. Thus, prayer and Bible reading.

[Parrothead]

As a catholic I disagree with all of this too.

Would you mind stating why?

[AimeeM]

I agree with her (Parrot) actually, even though we cannot always attend because it risks my son's health (more during flu season than at other times). I have been assured by many that we have a reason and that it isn't a sin :glare:

As a catholic I disagree with all of this too.

[Carol in Cal.]

Aimee, though maybe your son can't attend, I have to say, I think that your DD (and actually everyone in the family) NEEDS the gifts of worship. I encourage you to consider whether there is a way to split up in caring for your son at home if necessary but still have everyone else at least be able to attend church.

[Parrothead]

I agree with her (Parrot) actually, even though we cannot always attend because it risks my son's health (more during flu season than at other times). I have been assured by many that we have a reason and that it isn't a sin :glare:

Yes, illness is one of the things that is acceptable.

[jennsmile]

I haven't read all the thread and I am not Catholic.

 

There have been times when I have questioned my beliefs but then I start looking at the blessings, miracles, and what not that have happened in my life that lead me to believe I am on the right track for me.

 

So perhaps you need to point out those times in her life that prove very much there is a God that cares about her. Sometimes they aren't big things but quiet things that all work together.

 

For example, my brother got struck by lightining. He wasn't where he lived but was visiting where we used to live which provided a large network of friends to support my family during his hospitilaztion. Yes we were sad he died but we were surrounded by friends and supported by prayers. There were a hundred other things that all showed a divine hand in the process.

 

So point out God's hand in her life or your family's life.

[Parker Martin]

Still, I don't think logic is the thing that really pulls people into, and back to, religion, but rather the good feelings that it brings.

 

I disagree. For some people, I'm sure that's true. For many people, including myself, feelings don't cut it. I don't run my life on feelings. Such people need logic, and there are excellent reasons to believe in God and to believe in the Christian faith, so it makes sense to expose someone to those reasons.

 

I just noticed that the OP's daughter is ten. In that case, I would definitely go with The Defense Never Rests or maybe On Guard if going through it with the parents. The Craig stuff is going to be more concrete, logical argument based. It is not literary like Lewis, but it does lay things out very clearly. I'm not sure if a ten year old can fully appreciate Mere Christianity, but it is an incredible book. I think the OP's husband would love Reasonable Faith.

[Ellie]

You ladies are wonderful.

 

Beginning pregnancy is having a lovely effect of migraines with me, so I slept in. I obviously missed something. I do sincerely apologize if I caused any conflict. I came to the board for help and support in this, not to cause problems. I requested certain people not to respond not because it would anger me; but because there are certain things out of the question in our home, so I wouldn't want anyone to waste their thoughts or typing time :glare:

 

I would appreciate if someone could PM me and tell me why there's deleted posts in the thread.

It wasn't your bad. Don't worry about it. :grouphug:

[Mystie]

I'm sorry. That isn't an option.

She has to lay in bed at a certain time; though I'm well aware, and tell her as much, that I can't (and would never want to) force her to sleep.

 

I appreciate the sentiment, but I did caveat that I didn't want to be told to just let it be and let her alone on this one.

 

Here's a Protestant high-five for your parenting. She is a baptized member of the church, whether she likes it or not. :001_smile: God is leading her and you. Hang in there. Good will come from it. :grouphug:

[ErinE]

I'll chime in with the expectation she should go to church. It can only help her gain more knowledge about herself, her faith, and the RC church. Continue to talk with her, perhaps bringing up St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas. The former began life as an unbeliever and the latter brought logic to faith. Mere Christianity is also a great book.

 

Above all, keep talking to her and require attendance in church activities. For many years, I struggled with my faith, and as I was approaching confirmation, my mother gave me the option of opting out of church. Granted, I was much older and reaching an age where I would be off at college and deciding for myself about my beliefs. However, I really regret it now. Although my husband and children are protestant, I firmly consider myself Roman Catholic.

[AimeeM]

I will check out the books you've mentioned. No matter what the book, we will have to read it with her or to her. She is dyslexic and hates reading (although she actually, seemingly, reads quite well.

 

Thanks for all of the suggestions and you're on the nail with one thing - Autumn needs more than feelings. Always has. This just hit me blind because she has always been the most faithful in the house. I mean really, she's the one we pray to have faith like...

I disagree. For some people, I'm sure that's true. For many people, including myself, feelings don't cut it. I don't run my life on feelings. Such people need logic, and there are excellent reasons to believe in God and to believe in the Christian faith, so it makes sense to expose someone to those reasons.

 

I just noticed that the OP's daughter is ten. In that case, I would definitely go with The Defense Never Rests or maybe On Guard if going through it with the parents. The Craig stuff is going to be more concrete, logical argument based. It is not literary like Lewis, but it does lay things out very clearly. I'm not sure if a ten year old can fully appreciate Mere Christianity, but it is an incredible book. I think the OP's husband would love Reasonable Faith.

[LG Gone Wild]

Don't be afraid of "forcing". You "force" math, hygiene, grammar, housekeeping, science, and what not, don't you? Sometimes you probably get high handed at times. Why should religion be any different?

 

It sounds like you reacted out of fear. Don't panic. These doubts and questions are incredible opportunities for growth. Think of it this way, how would you react if your dd burst out a disbelief in math? She exclaimed that since she already knew addition/subtraction the rest of it was pointless. You would probably make a mild case for higher math and then continue with the indoctrination.

[RegGuheert]

I will check out the books you've mentioned. No matter what the book, we will have to read it with her or to her. She is dyslexic and hates reading (although she actually, seemingly, reads quite well.

If she is dyslexic, then I will say the picture book I recommended may be that much more attractive to her. I do not recommend that book because it is for children, but rather I recommend it because it is the most succinct and to-the-point of any book I have seen on this subject for any age. But the presentation does make it more accessible to younger people.

 

I see in one of your posts that you believe in theistic evolution. I will point out that he spends about four pages against macroevolution, but, really, that portion is tangential to the rest of the book. I suppose it is included because it is what the author believes. You can easily tell her to skip or disregard that if you do not want her to read it.

[KatieH]

Answer her questions openly and honestly. Let her know it's okay to doubt. Maybe give her some stories of great Saints who have doubted. Definitely keep going to Mass together, praying, etc.

[OLG]

Just a thought from a different angle....is there something deeply bothering her and this is her way to maybe get a discussion going? It wasn't my first thought but others have already offered excellent advice. Questioning is always good, by all parties.

[5knights3maidens]

I bought this book, If I Could Ask God Anything: Awesome Bible Answers for Curious Kids by Kathryn Slattery. Each page has a question with the answer and Bible verses. It has 207 pages. We read 1, 2, or maybe 3 pages a night. Depending on the tiredness of the girls. :001_smile: They are 8 and 6 and ask for this to be read every night.

I actually bought this at Ollie's for very cheap.

 

http://www.amazon.com/If-Could-Ask-God-Anything/dp/1400316022/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1322765428&sr=1-1

 

 

I don't know your dd's age but I have started doing the 'Arrival of a King' lapbook from A Journey Through Learning...they also enjoy this. :) And we are doing a Jesse Tree and Jesus Tree.

 

Hope this helps. :001_smile:

[AimeeM]

I can honestly say that I haven't noticed anything else bothering her. She is a happy child all in all. Soccer season just ended, she's contemplating what she would like to participate in for the winter season, plays outside daily until dark with her best friend (then in a neighborhood home until bedtime)... her days are fulfilling and uncomplicated.

I should relay the conversation we had a little while ago (again, in the car; this time on our way home from ice cream): Dog lying in the side of the road dead. It's been there for over a month (busy intersection). Autumn makes a random comment about hoping the dog goes to heaven to be with people again.

Perhaps she just wants to drive me batty.

Just a thought from a different angle....is there something deeply bothering her and this is her way to maybe get a discussion going? It wasn't my first thought but others have already offered excellent advice. Questioning is always good, by all parties.

[Teachin'Mine]

Since reading is more challenging, how about some movies on the Saints and all?

 

I'll start a list and hope that others can add to it:

 

The 13th Day (Fatima and the miracle of the sun)

 

The Reluctant Saint (St. Joseph of Cupertino - the Flying Monk)

 

Clare and Francis

 

There are a few good ones on Saint Pio

 

The Song of Bernadette (Our Lady of Lourdes miracles)

 

I'll add as I think of them.

[AimeeM]

Thanks! These are great!

 

I'll also see if I can get her to watch Mother Angelica with my husband and I. We get a kick out of her!

 

Since reading is more challenging' date=' how about some movies on the Saints and all?

 

I'll start a list and hope that others can add to it:

 

The 13th Day (Fatima and the miracle of the sun)

 

The Reluctant Saint (St. Joseph of Cupertino - the Flying Monk)

 

Clare and Francis

 

There are a few good ones on Saint Pio

 

The Song of Bernadette (Our Lady of Lourdes miracles)

 

I'll add as I think of them.[/quote']

[anabelneri]

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I just wanted to tell a story for the OP.

 

My husband was raised Catholic. He had different circumstances than your daughter (Catholic school, divorced parents, devout Catholic mother but devout New Age father). When he was 11 he declared that he wasn't going to church anymore. He wasn't going to be Catholic anymore. His mother sat him down that night and grilled him. Her perspective was this: you don't have to believe what I believe, but you do have to believe something. She wanted to know what he thought about everything. They talked about God, the universe, what he disagreed with in the tradition, and most importantly for him, what he was going to base his ethical/moral decisions on. That conversation was very important and even pivotal for him; it has continued to be mentioned periodically for the past 15 years.

 

Our perspective in raising our kids Catholic is that they're going to rebel, disagree, or otherwise leave the path that we're on, but they will know what it is that they are leaving. It will give them ground to stand on while they survey the landscape of options. My hope is that they will realize the core truths that we believe about who we are as humans and how we should act in the world. In the end that may even bring them to an understanding of our tradition and bring them back. It certainly did for my husband. In college he returned to the Catholic tradition, and he's very clear that his work in the world comes out of his beliefs. I couldn't ask for more.

 

I hope you've gotten great responses. I'm looking forward to reading them all.

:)

[Teachin'Mine]

Thanks! These are great!

 

I'll also see if I can get her to watch Mother Angelica with my husband and I. We get a kick out of her!

 

You're welcome! She may still be young enough to enjoy the ones available in cartoon format. They're only about 30 minutes long and give just the basics in a fun way for kids. But if she wants more detail, then the regular films are the way to go.

 

Yes she's great! There are lots of good programs on EWTN. :)

 

I understand the difficulties in attending Mass. Maybe you could find a way to go with her alone either on Sundays or some days during the week. The Masses are shorter on weekdays, but the people there tend to be very devout. When you start reading about how at times the veil separating us from heaven is lifted and people have seen the Angels surrounding the altar during the Consecration and all, it makes it hard not to believe. The more she learns, the easier it will be to believe. We've all got a bit of St. Thomas in us. ;)

[AdamsFamily]

Another book that my dh recommended is More Than a Carpenter by Josh McDowell. I am not Catholic, so I don't know if this book will contradict your beliefs. I did not explain the entire thread to my dh before he gave me that title.

 

C.S. Lewis's book recommendations are great! Lee Strobel is another author that my dh would recommend.

 

Definitely pray for her. Watch out for opportunities to talk about this again and keep the lines of communication open about this. If she is scientifically minded, she will need proof. She isn't going to believe just because she was told to believe. Also, do you think part of the problem was that Bob Jones Univ. was the entity putting up the nativity scene? Many people are opposed to BJU's legalistic beliefs, so maybe your dd has picked up on their different stances?

 

As for Grandma, maybe you or your dh should sit down with her and kindly explain that her negativity may be causing problems that she doesn't realize are happening. I get discouraged with church occasionally and sometimes vent about it at home. If my kids are around, they hear every word I say. If they hear what I say, I could unknowingly alter their view of church and God. I don't want them to dislike church, so I have to save my conversations until I can find some place to talk where they won't hear me. Your Grandma may be unhappy about church right now, but I would hope she would try to hide her frustrations from her grandkids. She probably doesn't realize what she is doing.

[justamouse]

Our perspective in raising our kids Catholic is that they're going to rebel, disagree, or otherwise leave the path that we're on, but they will know what it is that they are leaving.

 

 

That is powerful.

[Laurie4b]

I don't know how old she is, so that affects my answers. Peter Kreeft is a Catholic and has written some great books that are done in dialogue format. There is Yes or No with a dialogue betweenChris (a Christian) and Sal ( a seeker) and one called Between Heaven and Hell about a dialogue between CS Lewis, John Kennedy (representing a humanist approach), and Aldous Huxley (They all died on the same day in 1963, I think.)

 

The other thing that is hard to refute is people's personal experiences with God being there in their lives, whether it's miraculous answers to prayers, or a strong sense of God's love and presence through trials, etc. Sharing your own stories of God's presence in your life and collecting stories from others to share with her (or asking others to share directly with her) has an impact. It's what keeps one of my sons grounded in his faith. He says that while there are questions he can't answer, he has seen the faith of people through all kinds of trials and he knows that God is real. So he can live with some mysteries.

 

CS Lewis' books (if she is old enough to read them) are quite good. He was Anglican and I can't recall anything in them that would be offensive to Catholics. (I'm Protestant.)

 

If she's science-minded, I would recommend Collins book, THe Language of God. He's the head of the human genome project.

Edited December 1, 2011 by Laurie4b

[LG Gone Wild]

I don't know how old she is, so that affects my answers. Peter Kreeft is a Catholic and has written some great books that are done in dialogue format. There is Yes or No with a dialogue betweenChris (a Christian) and Sal ( a seeker) and one called Between Heaven and Hell about a dialogue between CS Lewis, John Kennedy (representing a humanist approach), and Aldous Huxley (They all died on the same day in 1963, I think.)

 

The other thing that is hard to refute is people's personal experiences with God being there in their lives, whether it's miraculous answers to prayers, or a strong sense of God's love and presence through trials, etc. Sharing your own stories of God's presence in your life and collecting stories from others to share with her (or asking others to share directly with her) has an impact. It's what keeps one of my sons grounded in his faith. He says that while there are questions he can't answer, he has seen the faith of people through all kinds of trials and he knows that God is real. So he can live with some mysteries.

 

CS Lewis' books (if she is old enough to read them) are quite good. He was Anglican and I can't recall anything in them that would be offensive to Catholics. (I'm Protestant.)

If she's science-minded, I would recommend Collins book, THe Language of God. He's the head of the human genome project.

 

 

We (Catholics) love him.

[Teachin'Mine]

We (Catholics) love him.

 

Yes we do!!! :)

 

 

Another movie that comes to mind which is much more on the fun, lighter side, is The Trouble with Angels. It's funny and the faith aspect is very subtle, but there nevertheless.

[Fleur de Lis]

I haven't read through all of the pages yet..just responding to the original post. I've really found it helpful to read about miracles that have happened, especially recent ones. One book that is great is called Eucharistic Miracles by Joan Carroll Cruz. This books goes one by one through the various miracles associated with the Eucharist such as hosts bleeding, hosts turning to flesh (all of the hosts in the world this has happened to are the same blood type - AB). Some hosts have turned to the flesh of the heart. Some are still fresh blood from centuries ago. This particular book may be a bit over her head, but maybe you could read through a miracle at a time together?? The book also has pictures, which is neat.

 

The apparitions of Our Lady both at Guadalupe and Fatima are so striking as well. I do not have any good book recommendations, but just googling the events will turn up a lot. For example, the cloak of Juan Diego that Our Lady's image was imprinted upon is still miraculously in tact several centuries after it should have deteriorated. No paint strokes can be found on the image.

 

At Fatima, Our Lady appeared to thousands of people (many of whom were Atheists and converted on the spot). She caused the sun to dance in the sky and newspaper reporters took pictures of the event. Maybe it could be helpful to talk about those events together? Our Lord proved His divinity by miracles and also continues to give them to confirm the right way :001_smile:

[Teachin'Mine]

You may want to read what's on this page to her - it's about a miracle experienced by a 13yo girl.

 

http://www.medjugorjeusa.org/miracles.htm

 

There are countless miracles attributed to Our Lady of Medjugorje - they are fascinating and compelling. Our God is very real, and He's been sending His Mother, every day for the past 30 years, to remind us. :) The youngest of the visionaries, Jacov, was 10 when the Blessed Mother first appeared to them.

[TranquilMind]

:iagree: It's not something that's going to be one conversation and done. It's an ongoing discussion. Why do you believe? Why does your dh believe? Why does Aunt Bee who is visiting today and eating dinner with us believe? What do other friends believe? Why? And so on...

This is the key right here. What do you have to share, you and your husband, in the way of personal experience with God? It's gotta be real to you to be real to her, not just a something you do every week. Why do you believe? How do you know? If it's real to you and you've got stuff to share, she will still have her questions maybe, but she will know why and what you believe and seek her own path and relationship to God.

 

I think that is the only thing that really matters. You can go all day in debates on proof/no proof, scientific evidence and it doesn't mean anything in terms of faith. After all, "science" tells us that virgin births don't happen, the dead don't rise, people aren't supernaturally healed or changed and Jesus couldn't have risen from a grave after three days.

[kristinannie]

I truly don't have time to read 11 pages of posts!!!! I just wanted to put in my 2 cents. I am a cradle Catholic and would be devastated to hear what you heard. At the same time, some questioning of faith is completely normal. I don't think there is any one of us who has gone all of our life without questioning...except St Therese. :) St Therese is a great saint to learn more about. Maybe your daughter could do a report on her. She is such a wonderful saint for children.

 

The Youcat is also a great resource. While some of the wording might be a little intense for a 10 year old, it truly does answer all of the questions about our faith. If she has certain questions, you can read the answer and then translate for her. :lol: She might understand a lot of it though because you said she is smart.

 

Honestly, I understand how people could say that there is no proof for God. I believe that there is proof however in all of our daily lives. Ask her to start spending a little time in prayer each day. Even 5 or 10 minutes can really help. Maybe you could take her to adoration if your church has that. Have her spend some time during the day in quiet. Turn all electronics off, let her go for a walk or do some chores in silence. These are the times that God is most likely to touch our hearts. Let her work on her personal relationship with Christ. Let him work in her through the Holy Spirit. Pray for her. Talk to her about times when you felt God working in you. Are there times where she has had sudden clarity about something or felt led to do something? Have there been times when she was scared and felt comforted? Has she ever felt an inner strength when she was really sad about something? Has she ever felt an inner guilt when she did something wrong? These are all the workings of the Holy Spirit in her life. These are all signs of God pulling her more deeply into a relationship with Himself. They are also signs that God exists.

 

I think the most important thing to focus on is the fact that God loves her. Jesus would have died on the cross if she was the only person on earth who could be saved. He died for each of us personally. That is how much God loves us. He constantly forgives us and pulls us closer to Him. He is willing to wait for us to be ready to embrace him and will nudge us closer to him.

 

I hope this helps. Sorry I wrote a novel!!!!