momma aimee Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Our dog was hit and killed over 2 years ago now. DS1 is still heart broken, still once in a while asks to pray for God to send him home and so on. not too long after our dog was hit the older dog of a family that is dear to us died of old age. the other mother, the other father, DH and I (and the older children in that family) have held true that both dog are in heaven and are Jesus' dog and happy. this is the answer the kids get from everyone in our lives ----- this is NOT a debate about if all good dogs go to heaven or not ----- there is a family we know, home school group, local lib and so on -- their kids are the age of our kids, and then they have a boy that is 9 or 10. Their dog got hit 3 weeks ago. their father is aggressive in his statements that dogs just die and are NOT in heaven. he has pounded this into his kids, even the crying 6 yo girl. he has said "that dogs or other stupid animals go to heaven is candy thinking, it is just silly and stupid and mean to make you feel good. it is a lie" so i really do NOT care what he tells his kids, but here is the situation his kids comment on the recent death of their dog, DS1 talks about Milo -- and their kids repeat their father's line that dogs can not go to heaven. DS1 believes they do. DS1 has brtought it up to me "but ____'s dad told him_______" -- he sees the different messages from the 2 sets of parents and in the 5 almost 6 yo mind one has to be right and one wrong. I hate to say "well their dad is wrong" -- but at the same time I do not know what to say when DS1 talks about it. The other mom and I try to steer the conservation away and maybe it will not come up again -- but .. i am not sure what to say -- that is what to say to be polite and socially correct -- the kids are not great friends but they play nice and we see them a lot ... thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I believe X. Mr Smith believes Y. One of us has to be right, but of course we don't know which is right, but I honestly believe X. I have one child who always wants the "truth truth." He wanted the "truth truth" as a very young child and deeply resented anything that smacked of "pretty white lie." He made me reassure him when he was around 10 that if he had cancer, I would tell him the truth about it. He will probably grow up to be like this gentleman - though hopefully more gentle in spirit. I can't imagine he would tell his children something he thought wasn't true just to sooth them. It's just how God made him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoforjoy Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 his kids comment on the recent death of their dog, DS1 talks about Milo -- and their kids repeat their father's line that dogs can not go to heaven. DS1 believes they do. DS1 has brtought it up to me "but ____'s dad told him_______" -- he sees the different messages from the 2 sets of parents and in the 5 almost 6 yo mind one has to be right and one wrong. If it were my child, I'd say "What do you think?" I'd probably admit that we don't know for sure (because I don't think we do), and so it's something people will have different opinions on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Why do you believe the dog is in heaven? If you know why you believe the dog is in heaven, then tell your son why you believe it. After telling him why you believe the dog is in heaven, you can tell your son that sometimes people don't agree on things. P.S. I believe the dogs are in heaven, too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trez Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 My kids ask me every so often whether there are any animals in heaven. I always tell them that heaven is said to be a wonderful place. Do they think that the best place they could imagine would have animals? They do...and I like to think that they are right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KristinaBreece Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I would buy my DC this book, and tell them that Mr. X may not believe this, but that we do. All God's Creatures go to Heaven ETA: I don't believe that people become angels... But I still rec the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmrich Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 You will have to wait to find out.... I firmly believe that heaven is just that - HEAVEN! Once we are there our earthly ways and wants will no longer exist. Honestly when you are there; you are fulfilled in ways you can not imagine. so for now, if the thought of being reunited with your dog brings you earthly comfort; fine..I hope I will be reunited with all my earthly pleasures in heaven. but I KNOW heaven will be bring me eternal joy and I will want for nothing there. and I can't imagine heaven without my beloved pets, but then again I live on earth not in heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMamaBird Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I told my kids this, the Bible doesn't say they won't be there and it doesn't say they will be there. But God created all those animals in Eden when it was perfect, why wouldn't He do it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 It's a great opportunity to teach your kids that people believe different things and that, hopefully, people can discuss those beliefs respectfully. From the sounds of it, this man isn't doing that. Anyway, here's what I believe, and it's what I tell my kids. We just don't know for sure, but I believe heaven is perfect communion with God. He wants us to be happy there, and we will be hand in hand with Jesus. I believe it will be what makes us happiest. I believe I will take beautiful photographs with Jesus. I believe my husband will spend his days fishing with Jesus, and that my oldest daughter will ride horses with Jesus. My two youngest will dance for Jesus. And all around will be the animals we've loved and lost, healthy and whole. Because that's what will make us happy. Heaven will be the new paradise. And paradise was full of beautiful animals! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsabelC Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 This sounds like a very difficult situation. It's hard for your kids to have to face the reality that there are massive differences of opinion/belief about important topics that they had thought were generally accepted as certainties. However it is something that all children have to come to terms with eventually, isn't it. I think you have some great suggestions here on how to approach the topic sensitively and appropriately. It's just a pity that this other father can't seem to take a more gentle approach. It sounds as though he has his own issues and is letting his bitterness have too much impact on the way he talks to his children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I hate to say "well their dad is wrong" -- but at the same time I do not know what to say when DS1 talks about it. The other mom and I try to steer the conservation away and maybe it will not come up again -- but .. i am not sure what to say -- that is what to say to be polite and socially correct -- the kids are not great friends but they play nice and we see them a lot ... Personally, if I heard the other kids telling my ds that their dad said that dogs don't go to heaven, I would have no qualms about coming right out and saying that we don't believe that, and we think they do go to heaven. And then you can joke with the other mom that you guess you'll all just have to agree to disagree on this one, and say that you guess we'll all find out for sure someday, but until then, no one knows for sure. (You'll probably be able to phrase it more eloquently than I did!) You didn't mention what the other mom believes -- does she agree with her husband? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I believe X. Mr Smith believes Y. One of us has to be right, but of course we don't know which is right, but I honestly believe X. I have one child who always wants the "truth truth." He wanted the "truth truth" as a very young child and deeply resented anything that smacked of "pretty white lie." He made me reassure him when he was around 10 that if he had cancer, I would tell him the truth about it. He will probably grow up to be like this gentleman - though hopefully more gentle in spirit. I can't imagine he would tell his children something he thought wasn't true just to sooth them. It's just how God made him. :iagree: I tell my kids their pets that have died are waiting at the rainbow bridge to cross into heaven with them when they get old and die. They really like that. Well this summer at bible camp ds's camp counsellor in his cabin not only told him that he didn't believe that but also flat out told him that I am wrong and clearly have not read the bible because the bible doesn't talk about a rainbow bridge. Ds was quite upset by it and even moreso a few weeks later when another pet of ours died. I just said pretty much what was recommended above. That I believe X and the counsellor believes Y. The kids have resumed talk about the rainbow bridge and all the beloved pets waiting for them so they can all be in heaven together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caterpiller Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I would tell him that we believe this and he believes that. I would also tell your son to pray about it and talk it through with God. He is never too young to take his concerns to God for comfort. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Why do you believe the dog is in heaven? If you know why you believe the dog is in heaven, then tell your son why you believe it. After telling him why you believe the dog is in heaven, you can tell your son that sometimes people don't agree on things. P.S. I believe the dogs are in heaven, too! Essentially, I agree. I have no specific personal beliefs about heaven. I'm keeping an open mind on the subject. So, I would not tell one of my kids that anyone, whether human or dog, was in heaven. We've talked about it when they were younger, and I explained that many people do believe people go to heaven when they die. I've also been honest about my own beliefs and have left then space to make up their own minds. However, when we have found ourselves running up against people who have beliefs different from our own, I've tried to be kind, honest and non-committal about it. "Different people believe different things about heaven. That is what Mr. X believes, but my heart tells me something different. We can't really know for sure. We can only know what our hearts feel. What you believe will be yours to discover." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margo out of lurking Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I hate to say "well their dad is wrong" -- but at the same time I do not know what to say when DS1 talks about it. The other mom and I try to steer the conservation away and maybe it will not come up again -- but .. i am not sure what to say -- that is what to say to be polite and socially correct -- the kids are not great friends but they play nice and we see them a lot ... thoughts? If my ds were six and this were my situation, I'd have no trouble saying, "Their dad is wrong. I'm sorry you have to listen to that, but we can be even sorrier that his kids need to listen to that. How sad that would be for them." I'd also coach my ds on how to avoid any discussion, and if it came up in front of me and the other mom again, I'd hatch a plan, "Let's talk to our kids before they play together again and tell them not to bring THIS subject up!" I'd be totally light and friendly about it, of course. We had similar issues with Santa when dd was this same age. (Not comparing Santa and heaven, just what kids will bring up and damage control.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I am really sorry you are dealing with this and to be honest it would piss me off. If it were a stranger I would laugh about it but to a family friend? I would expect them to teach their children not to say things abou anothers belief. I can't believe that God would populate our world and not have animals in Heaven. I hope your son is OK and not too upset Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momma aimee Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 Personally, if I heard the other kids telling my ds that their dad said that dogs don't go to heaven, I would have no qualms about coming right out and saying that we don't believe that, and we think they do go to heaven. And then you can joke with the other mom that you guess you'll all just have to agree to disagree on this one, and say that you guess we'll all find out for sure someday, but until then, no one knows for sure. (You'll probably be able to phrase it more eloquently than I did!) You didn't mention what the other mom believes -- does she agree with her husband? I THINK Jodi believes that dogs go to heaven, or at least there is no 'issues' with thinking so. I know she talked to her 6 and 10 year olds about how their prays to God were theirs and God's alone and they could talk to God about anything (the 6yo wanted to pray to ask God to let animals in because daddy says he doesn't). I also know she feels that the dad was too harsh in his discussion of it and she reports she told him to "just drop it already, that is not helping the matter" when he was (in her words) "ranting about how silly it is to think animals are in heaven". ^shrug^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momma aimee Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 Thanks everyone, i have to admit I am glad it is raining here -- no park day -- then maybe by next week they will have moved on to something else. ;) Thanks for thinking this through with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I'm not sure what I believe about pets in heaven - I've never really thought about it. But I would have no problem whatsoever telling my kids that Mr Smith was wrong. I would do it in the most tactful way I could but I wouldn't let other people try to influence my kids in that way. Most of the following would be said in private for obvious reasons. "Mr Smith believes X & I believe Y. Yes, Mr Smith is wrong. Mr Smith is being a bully by telling his children X. His manner is an indication that his motives are not positive and are not just to educate his children about what happens to pets when they die." Discussion would then ensue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I THINK Jodi believes that dogs go to heaven, or at least there is no 'issues' with thinking so. I know she talked to her 6 and 10 year olds about how their prays to God were theirs and God's alone and they could talk to God about anything (the 6yo wanted to pray to ask God to let animals in because daddy says he doesn't). I also know she feels that the dad was too harsh in his discussion of it and she reports she told him to "just drop it already, that is not helping the matter" when he was (in her words) "ranting about how silly it is to think animals are in heaven". ^shrug^ I feel sorry for the mom. She is probably doing everything she can to help her kids deal with the death of a beloved family member, and her husband is being a complete and total jerk about it. (If it were me, I'd tell the kids that I disagreed with their father and explain what I believed, telling them that no one knows for sure either way... but definitely, subtly making it seem like I was pretty sure I was right... :tongue_smilie:) I feel better knowing that she's there for her kids, and that she isn't like the dad. Even if the father adamantly believes that there are no animals in Heaven, he could talk to the kids gently about it, and stress that he has no way of knowing for sure, and that he truly hopes he turns out to be wrong about it, and that the kids can still pray for their lost pet. As it is, he's acting like a big mean bully with his children, and I hate that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momma aimee Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 I feel sorry for the mom. She is probably doing everything she can to help her kids deal with the death of a beloved family member, and her husband is being a complete and total jerk about it. (If it were me, I'd tell the kids that I disagreed with their father and explain what I believed, telling them that no one knows for sure either way... but definitely, subtly making it seem like I was pretty sure I was right... :tongue_smilie:) I feel better knowing that she's there for her kids, and that she isn't like the dad. Even if the father adamantly believes that there are no animals in Heaven, he could talk to the kids gently about it, and stress that he has no way of knowing for sure, and that he truly hopes he turns out to be wrong about it, and that the kids can still pray for their lost pet. As it is, he's acting like a big mean bully with his children, and I hate that. I agree, I am not so bothered by the idea he expresses -- no one knows and it is not really a matter you can look up, you know? -- but he is so pushy about it that his kids, of course, repeat him given the discussion and that then becomes the issue -- again not that they hold a different belief, but just how to 'manage it' for DS1. Also at least his oldest son, the 10 yo boy, seems to think it must be really important to 'hold to' no pets in heaven since dad makes such a big deal out of it. the boy is really fairly nice about it, just keeps saying 'my dad says" and "well my dad says" -- can't blame the kid. though, honestly to hear him i think he is 'repeating it because he thinks he is supposed to' yk? you have all made good points, i am hoping the discussion just leaves the kids minds and they move to to something new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I had this situation last year, and that thread was rather ugly :tongue_smilie: I told dd that her friends family believes one way, and we believe another. Dd has enough anxiety issues and it is better for her to think of her beloved animal in Heaven. Do I know for a fact that animals are in Heaven? No. Can I hope? Yes! It was a good lesson in understanding that it is okay to disagree with adults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfgivas Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 hugs, hot chocolate and lots of learning. the one thing my kids have found helpful is a really clear explanation about the things that we know we know, or that someone else knows and to which there can be a "true" and "false" answer. math is good for this. and then the things that are different for different people. i like mushrooms, dds do not. are they good or bad? it depends who you ask. what is true for one person is not true for another. then there are the things we have no way of truly knowing and for which we make our best heart felt reasonings. these lead different people to different places. ie. its good to talk about the different opinions, but i think important to be clear that some things are true, regardless of what some people may think. (eg. the world is round, 2 + 2 = 4, etc). :grouphug: ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nyssa Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 In this situation I like to quote Pa in Little House on the Prairie (I think it is in Silver Lake) when Jack dies. He tells Laura: "God that doesn't forget about the sparrows won't leave a good dog like Jack out in the cold." Maybe seeing it written out in a beloved book will be reassuring for your DS. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I heard someone explain it this way recently: Heaven is perfect and you have everything you want when there. I want my dog, therefore dogs do go to heaven. I think it was my dad's pastor who said it, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 My mother would have said "Mr X isn't being very polite, is he?" But everything is about manners with my mother. :lol: Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Dominion Heather Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) I'd tell my kids that the other dad is dead wrong. And mean. Your son is in good company: http://carol-apple.suite101.com/do-animals-go-to-heaven-cs-lewis-on-animal-immortality-a350929 Edited October 12, 2011 by Old Dominion Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momma aimee Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 I'd tell my kids that the other dad is dead wrong. And mean. Your son is in good company: http://carol-apple.suite101.com/do-animals-go-to-heaven-cs-lewis-on-animal-immortality-a350929 that was an amazing read, thanks so much!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
songsparrow Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 When I was a child, I struggled with this idea after my cat died. I had seen a TV show claiming scientists weighed dying people and animals, and the people lost weight upon death, which was the soul leaving the body, and the animals didn't, so they had no soul and didn't go to heaven. (I believe there were actual tests like this conducted, but they were debunked.) This upset me very much at the time. Other people told me that animals did go to heaven. I finally decided that heaven wouldn't be heaven if my pets weren't there; therefore, they must go to heaven. Maybe not flawless logic, but it comforted me. If it helps your son, feel free to use the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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