I could use some help dealing with religion/family issue

[ondreeuh]

My husband and I are atheists. We think it's important for our children to learn about other faiths (at least the basics) and of course we teach them to be respectful. The kids are aware of the role that faith plays in many people's lives, but it's a non-issue in our house.

 

Well, we now have a "situation" with my daughter's birth-father's father (bio grandfather).

 

[i took out a lot of details that really don't belong on a public forum - but let's just say there are red flags in our history with him]

 

There were several situations that came up when dd was a preschooler and he was still married to his ex-wife. He ignored my wishes about several things (put dd in in bed with him and his wife, didn't put her in a carseat despite me giving it to him, and repeatedly showed her Veggie Tales when I asked him not to). So we have a history of boundary issues. After he divorced, he no longer had access to my kids without me present, so all that stopped.

 

So that is the back story. Last week he asked if he could take dd to dinner so she could meet his girlfriend. I said that was fine. He was very careful to ask dd, saying "If it's OK with your mom and dad." So he took her to dinner, even though his girlfriend had to cancel. While they were at dinner he told her there were two important things he wanted to talk to her about. One was about the upcoming move to Alaska, and the other was about Jesus Christ. He told her that Jesus loves her and would always be her friend, and it was important to believe.

 

DD was *extremely* uncomfortable and just nodded along. She is not very assertive because she doesn't want to over-react to things. She told me that she doesn't want to be alone with him again and he kinda gives her the creeps.

 

To give him as much credit as possible, I could say that he just was concerned that she hadn't been exposed to the Christian faith, and wanted her to hear the good news. But there's the fact that he pounced on the opportunity to pressure her to accept Jesus the moment he got her alone - and there is NO WAY he would have said that in front of me. There's also the fact that he knows her other grandparents are Christian and she's not living under a rock. I drafted an email to him that said dd was uncomfortable with the conversation, and while I'm sure his intentions were good, it's not a topic that is up for discussion. I haven't sent him anything yet.

 

I talked to my own father about what happened, and he said, "Oh that's funny, because I saw him in the store yesterday and he told me about going to dinner with Chloe. He said there were two churches in the village you're moving to, and he thinks you'll join one of them. I told him that he shouldn't get his hopes up because you are very strong in your beliefs and are not open to becoming a Christian. He seemed disappointed."

 

So now I don't know what to do. Either he's going to give up, or he's going to have renewed resolve to save my dd from an eternity in hell. I don't know WHERE he got the idea that we would be joining a church. I get that church has filled a void for him, but we are really happy as we are.

 

I'm not concerned about him influencing my dd - she has her own mind and can decide for herself what she believes. I don't appreciate him trying to undermine me & dh as her parents (as he has in the past), and I think it was very inappropriate to pull her aside and try to proselytize. It's disrespectful of our beliefs. Now dd is really uncomfortable with him. Since I've had to be pretty blunt in the past about drawing boundaries, I think I'm going to have to do that again.

 

If you were in this situation, what would you do? Especially if you were concerned with not over-reacting?

Edited June 13, 2011 by ondreeuh

[Jean in Newcastle]

How soon are you moving to Alaska? How much contact will you have with your dd after your move? If your move is soon (within the next few months), and there won't be a lot of contact after that, I would simply go back to supervised visits only. If he will be around your dd more, then I would send the e-mail.

[Tohru]

Wow. Dealing with family is really very hard.

 

I'm assuming it was your 15yo dd? If so, then a conversation like that might be a good teaching moment for you and her. There are many Evangelicals that she will probably face throughout her life. My MIL is a Catholic/Christian and we are not. She talks to my son every now and then about her church and he just accepts that it is part of who she is.

 

The general response we have towards people of other faiths is, "I'm glad that you have found something that works for you. Thanks for sharing with me." Sometimes it gets repeated a few times (in the same conversation) but I think generally people are eager to share with those they love, especially if something means a lot to them.

 

I'm sorry, but that's probably not the best advice in the world. It's great that you are giving him a second chance of having a family though.

 

:grouphug:

[elegantlion]

I guess my first question would be if he truly has a girlfriend and if she truly had to cancel. If not he lied to violate your rules. That would be my main issue.

 

As a christian I don't like the idea of going behind a parent's back to preach to the children. I do think you're going to get others expressing their beliefs and having a "hope" for your children. But to pressure her to believe goes against how I believe a relationship with Christ is formed.

 

Since you are moving he could have seen this as one of his last opportunities to express his beliefs to her. I still wouldn't have been comfortable with it, especially given his previous boundary issues.

 

I don't know, it depends on how you want to leave it. I don't remember when you are moving, but if it's soon I might send a short e-mail expressing how it made your dd uncomfortable. If you're going to see him more often before you leave, I'd address the uncomfortable feeling and how he overstepped his boundaries.

[Lady Florida.]

That's a really tough situation. On one hand you'll be moving and he won't be able to do this anymore. On the other, he went behind your back. Then there's the fact that dd is older (this is the 15 y.o.?). It's not as though he was talking to a young child.

 

I probably wouldn't send the email or a letter, but I don't think I'd let him be alone with her again. You gave him a chance and look what he did.

[ondreeuh]

How soon are you moving to Alaska? How much contact will you have with your dd after your move? If your move is soon (within the next few months), and there won't be a lot of contact after that, I would simply go back to supervised visits only. If he will be around your dd more, then I would send the e-mail.

 

I don't know, it depends on how you want to leave it. I don't remember when you are moving, but if it's soon I might send a short e-mail expressing how it made your dd uncomfortable. If you're going to see him more often before you leave, I'd address the uncomfortable feeling and how he overstepped his boundaries.

 

We are moving in a couple of months. Well, dh and I are driving up first, and the kids will stay with their other grandparents for a couple of weeks before they fly up with my mother. He really wanted to fly up with dd and was openly disappointed we made other plans.

 

He could definitely try to get access to the kids while they are at their grandparents', and I could totally see him doing that. I will be at the mercy of my mom and MIL To rebuke him. It's even crossed my mind that he could try to take dd. He threatened to "rescue" his youngest son from the corrupting influence of NYC when he found out his son was gay. I don't know if he was serious, but his family certainly freaked out.

 

He wants to come up and visit us. I don't want him sleeping in our house, but I don't know if there's another place he could stay. I suppose we could say we are too busy and we will see him over Christmas break and during the summer. He'll know my parents and my MIL will come up to visit, but I guess that's just something we'll have to deal with.

[ondreeuh]

Yes, this is the 15 year old. It's the only one he's biologically related to, although he treats them all the same.

 

I think he definitely knew what he was doing, and shouldn't be surprised if there are repercussions. It's just hard to actually put that into words, you know?

[justamouse]

How soon are you moving to Alaska? How much contact will you have with your dd after your move? If your move is soon (within the next few months), and there won't be a lot of contact after that, I would simply go back to supervised visits only. If he will be around your dd more, then I would send the e-mail.

:iagree:

[Night Elf]

It sounds like you prevented him from being alone with your daughter, and that when you did allow it for a dinner, he brought up the religion thing just like you thought he would. I think the simple solution is that he doesn't get alone time with her again. He blew his chance.

 

If you had a verbal understanding with him that he was not to talk to her about religion, you can tell him that he broke that understanding and you're disappointed. If you had no misunderstanding, I wouldn't say anything to him at all.

 

If you have ANY real suspicions that he would try to "take" her, you keep her with you. If you cannot trust your mom and MIL to abide by your rules to never let him be alone with her, then she doesn't go to their house. Yes, it seems unfair to them but if you feel like you need to protect your dd, then that is your #1 priority.

[3peasinWa]

you know what bothers me the most, more then the religion part?

 

The fact that your dd said he gives her the creeps. Intuition is huge & I'd explore w/your dd-- Is it just the Jesus part that gives her the creeps? Or is it an overall feeling she has about him?

[ondreeuh]

It's his overall manner. I had a big talk with her about "protecting the gift" and not ignoring your gut instincts in order to be polite. She freezes when she's put in that kind of situation, though. So, how do you tell someone they are being creepy?

[trailofsparks]

I guess my first question would be if he truly has a girlfriend and if she truly had to cancel. If not he lied to violate your rules. That would be my main issue.

 

As a christian I don't like the idea of going behind a parent's back to preach to the children. I do think you're going to get others expressing their beliefs and having a "hope" for your children. But to pressure her to believe goes against how I believe a relationship with Christ is formed.

 

Since you are moving he could have seen this as one of his last opportunities to express his beliefs to her. I still wouldn't have been comfortable with it, especially given his previous boundary issues.

 

I don't know, it depends on how you want to leave it. I don't remember when you are moving, but if it's soon I might send a short e-mail expressing how it made your dd uncomfortable. If you're going to see him more often before you leave, I'd address the uncomfortable feeling and how he overstepped his boundaries.

 

This is exactly what I was thinking as I read your post. Well said, elegantlion.

[3peasinWa]

So , forgive me if I didn't get this part...but he legally doesn't have visitation right? There are red flags here & if your dd isn't comfortable around him, I wouldn't force her to be around him. If she has to be, then I'd ALWAYS be there with him & your dd.

[3peasinWa]

Oh, on the religion part. I think I'd talk with him & basically say , he is welcome to his beliefs. He has already now evangelized to your dd. You would like him to leave it at that. He can let her know "hey if you ever have any questions about Christianity, or my own personal christian faith, then ask anytime, but I won't push it on you any further"

Something like that?

[Love_to_Read]

ditto 3peasinWa

 

I would smile sweetly and tell him that God is big enough to use other people in her life if He really wants her to convert. And I say that as a Christian myself...really, when sharing the good news means violating someone's trust, that isn't godly! That's incredibly rude!

 

But honestly, I don't care what he believes or doesn't believe, if he's givng her the creeps, I would not allow any more unsupervised time at all, esp. if she just freezes. Keep working on a script to arm herself with if she ever finds herself in a situation like that again....or maybe a couple scripts. Soemthing like, "Excuse me, I need to call my mom; I forgot something important." or if she's too old to be calling mom, "Excuse me, I need to call my roommate to check on something I just remembered." or even "I need to use the bathroom (escape out the back door)." Ok, that's a little movie-scene dramatic, but seriously, role play or something to help her figure out how to extricate herself when red flags go up, since she's old enough to get caught in situations without you as friends learn to drive and she turns 18, etc., and in the meanwhile protect her from being alone with creepy grandpa.

[TracyR]

Well since the guy is her biological grandfather and not a parent. She has every right not to see him again if she so wishes. There is no law in the land that states she has to see a grandparent, and there is no law saying you have to let her visit with him again if she felt uncomfortable.

Not putting any religion down , because we are Catholic. But having been of many Protestant flavors before becoming Catholic. The Evengelical bunch can be challenging to deal with. As they are pretty much bent on your going to hell if you don't do things their way. I know after becoming Catholic a couple of members from the Evangelical church we had gone to have been currently harassing us because they feel that we don't do things their way so we're going to hell. Granted the Catholic church was the church Christ founded to begin with. Being an adult we have to shrug it off. Does it make us feel uncomfortable? A little bit. But your going to deal with people like this in the real world unfortunately.

 

My opinion I wouldn't give it the time of day. If your moving then let it be. In his mind he will think he is right , even if you send him a letter. He really isn't going to see any wrong in what he did, and your not going to convince him otherwise.

Just let your daughter know that your sorry that she was put in an uncomfortable position. There are Christians that believe that (not all mind you, Catholics believe in being born again through Sacraments and not by reciting a sinners prayer like Protestants ) and they will say those things. You can't avoid them.

 

My husband had it right one day when a group of Baptists came to our home. They knocked on our door, he answered it. They asked him if he knew he was going to Heaven, and he said " Yes." They were most likely leading to the ' are you born again,' discussion. He said it so they would go away beacuse we are happy with who we are and where we go to church.

 

I'm not telling you have her lie. But sometimes to get out of the most uncomfortable situations you need to just tell some people what they want to hear. If he asked her if she knew Jesus , she can say yes. I mean, you've taught her about different faiths. So she knows of him. That way the conversation could have stopped right there. Or the importance of believing she could have said yes, I believe. Meaning not that she believes in Jesus but just that she believes. That wouldn't be a lie. She believes in many things. For instance she believes the earth is round. She believes her mom and dad love her very much. She believes that she'll have food on the table. She believes that she is loved by her family. I think you get my point.

Its about diffusing the conversation so it ends right there.

 

As for VeggieTales, granted I am Christian but they do teach good moral values and I don't know of a single good parent on the face of the earth that wouldn't want their children to be good moral upstanding citizens. Veggie Tales is pretty minor if you've taught her about different faiths to begin with. LOL

Edited June 13, 2011 by TracyR

[Tree House Academy]

Gosh - I am not sure. May I ask where the bio dad is in all of this? Has he passed away? I am just thinking he must have because otherwise, it seems all of this should be going through him too.??

 

My husband had it right one day when a group of Baptists came to our home.

 

I know this isn't the topic, but :001_huh:. I didn't know Baptists went door to door and I have been one all my life. Let's just say they don't prostelytize here. They may go door to door to give out VBS flyers in the local trailor parks, but not to "win souls.." at least not in my neck of the woods. This is just strange to me.

[3peasinWa]

Oh, wow, sorry I totally mis-read grandfather for father :tongue_smilie:

 

Okay - that makes things even easier to put serious boundaries , even if that means you completely remove him from seeing your dd.

 

You've read Protecting the Gift, so I'm sure you know not to force her to be around him if she uncomfortable.

 

ETA: I'm a Christian & I have nieces who are not & their dad is opposed to christianity. I'm just myself around them - I'll answer any questions they have, but to me, evangelism is just loving them unconditionally - not forcing anything....

Edited June 13, 2011 by 3peasinWa

[simka2]

I have to keep things really simple in my life right now. Here is how I see things. Take the religion issues out. He could have been talking about impressionist art and she still may have had the creeps. A completely different person could have said the same words to her and NOT creeped her out. Something else is setting her (and your) radar off. Since that is the case. If and when he wants contact and she doesn't feel comfortable, you and your dh get to step in and shield her as the parents. She doesn't have to have contact with him. That is that. If it is a holiday and he wants to come and visit you simply give him the parameters.

 

"We would love to see you at Christmas, here is a list of a few hotels." ;)

[Joanne]

you know what bothers me the most, more then the religion part?

 

The fact that your dd said he gives her the creeps. Intuition is huge & I'd explore w/your dd-- Is it just the Jesus part that gives her the creeps? Or is it an overall feeling she has about him?

 

 

This, combined with the stuff you deleted, and the boundary stuff you kept? He'd not be welcome, period.

 

I'm creeped out and I don't even know the man.

[RanchGirl]

I don't think you need to actually tell him he's creepy, it doesn't sound like that would be productive. Would he say oh, I'll stop being creepy? Or oh, I'll not be alone with her anymore since I make her uncomfortable? Probably not.

 

IMO, you just need to not have your daughter be alone with him anymore. It doesn't sound like she wants to be with him either. If your parents can't ensure that while you are gone, then I wouldn't leave her with them, I would make other arrangements.

 

On the other hand, if she still wants to see him as long as he doesn't discuss religion, you could send an email asking him if he would be willing to stick to more neutral topics. I just worry that since he hasn't honored your wishes in the past, he isn't likely to do it when you're in Alaska either.

 

As for explaining it to her, it sounds like you've got that covered. If it comes up again, I would just emphasize that because he believes in an afterlife, and he loves her, he is concerned about where she is going eventually. Since you don't believe the same things, it can sound way out there, but that hopefully she can and should decide for herself what to believe. But above all, she doesn't have to discuss topics she doesn't want to discuss, and she doesn't have to spend time with someone who makes her uncomfortable.

[A.Balaban]

As for VeggieTales, granted I am Christian but they do teach good moral values and I don't know of a single good parent on the face of the earth that wouldn't want their children to be good moral upstanding citizens. Veggie Tales is pretty minor if you've taught her about different faiths to begin with. LOL

 

I love VeggieTales. Some episodes have a very strong religious flavor, while others are more "grounded". Oh, and the songs are super catchy!! :)

 

To the OP: I am sorry about the grand-father issue. I would simply not allow him to see her without you in the future. Good luck with your move.

[ondreeuh]

Gosh - I am not sure. May I ask where the bio dad is in all of this? Has he passed away? I am just thinking he must have because otherwise, it seems all of this should be going through him too.??

 

 

Our relationship with the grandfather is totally independent.

 

I have to keep things really simple in my life right now. Here is how I see things. Take the religion issues out. He could have been talking about impressionist art and she still may have had the creeps. A completely different person could have said the same words to her and NOT creeped her out. Something else is setting her (and your) radar off. Since that is the case. If and when he wants contact and she doesn't feel comfortable, you and your dh get to step in and shield her as the parents. She doesn't have to have contact with him. That is that. If it is a holiday and he wants to come and visit you simply give him the parameters.

 

"We would love to see you at Christmas, here is a list of a few hotels." ;)

 

Yes, you are entirely right.

 

My own family can be very direct when needed. His family - not at all. Every time I have tried to be frank, I am met with a blank stare, and then I end up babbling. It's extremely uncomfortable and I end up saying too much or backpedaling.

 

Since his gf had to cancel (which I do believe was legitimate) he wants to meet again. I'm going to have to tell him that Chloe was uncomfortable with the last dinner and that can all meet her as a family. I think that's probably direct enough without totally ruining things for the future.

[ondreeuh]

Role-playing is a great idea. It's amazing how powerful the pressure to be "nice" is even when your gut warns you. The more practice she has, the better.

[meggie]

The fact that he put her in bed with him and he creeps her out is enough to creep me out. Add in the fact that he's threatened to kidnap his son and there is no chance in Hades he'd be anywhere near her. Ever. Just on reading what you've posted, I would make absolutely certain that nothing has ever happened.

[ondreeuh]

It's very easy to say that when you're only seeing part of the picture. He (or his wife) co-slept with her when she was a baby/toddler and they watched her overnight. I didn't co-sleep with her so that was out of my comfort zone. Years later, I brought my baby nephew into my bed when wouldn't sleep at my house, and that wasn't creepy. His issue with his son was because he really felt his son was in an unsafe place, and I had similar concerns based on the whole situation that was going on at the time.

[meggie]

My apologies, I was thinking of an older child.

 

Well, with the part of the picture you have presented, I would still say, "Nope, he doesn't get to be around her alone anymore."

[ondreeuh]

Ok, so how do you suddenly stop contact with someone who has only been kind to your family?

 

Realize that all the weird stuff happened in the past with his own wife and kids. I observed it, but he has never done anything to harm me. He has never harmed my children. He overruled my wishes back when he was the head of his own household, but since his divorce he has totally submitted to my wishes. He doesn't even get upset when they act up; he actually reassures me that they are fine when I get upset about their behavior. My red flags go up because of what I know about his past and the biases I have, not about his current actions (this god-talk aside). It would really come out of absolutely nowhere for me to suddenly say, "Sorry, we won't be visiting with you again." And really, the guy has had many years to think about what went wrong in his life and change his ways, and I think he does deserve credit for ALL the support and care he has given my family over the years.

 

I know I'm very conflicted on this. I don't think keeping my children safe requires me to totally crush a person who I am positive is trying to do a good thing.

[Audrey]

I have had to deal with a proselytizing relative. I would suggest drawing very firm boundaries. Those kind of people are convinced they are doing the right thing, no matter how offensive, unwelcome or wrong they may be. You have to be very firm, possibly even delivering ultimatums of "no contact" if the offender keeps pushing the boundaries. Reading some of your later posts gives even more reason to cut him off, aside from the proselytizing.

[meggie]

Ack! I'm sorry if I keep saying the wrong thing. Finding out more of the story helps.

 

I can understand where you're coming from about a person changing. My inlaws used to be awful people when they were raising my DH. They have completely changed and are (mostly) wonderful.

 

I don't think you have to cut him out completely, but you don't make her be alone with him. He can call. He can visit. If you're moving in a few weeks you can throw a goodbye party and invite all the nearby relatives instead of him taking her out. Invite him and his gf over for dinner instead. An "I would appreciate it if you stop talking to her about Christianity" talk would be ok. Maybe he just wanted to let her know one last time that he would be there for her if she ever changes her mind (I would consider that innocent enough. Annoying maybe, but innocent).

[Geo]

Ok, so how do you suddenly stop contact with someone who has only been kind to your family?

 

Realize that all the weird stuff happened in the past with his own wife and kids. I observed it, but he has never done anything to harm me. He has never harmed my children. He overruled my wishes back when he was the head of his own household, but since his divorce he has totally submitted to my wishes. He doesn't even get upset when they act up; he actually reassures me that they are fine when I get upset about their behavior. My red flags go up because of what I know about his past and the biases I have, not about his current actions (this god-talk aside). It would really come out of absolutely nowhere for me to suddenly say, "Sorry, we won't be visiting with you again." And really, the guy has had many years to think about what went wrong in his life and change his ways, and I think he does deserve credit for ALL the support and care he has given my family over the years.

 

I know I'm very conflicted on this. I don't think keeping my children safe requires me to totally crush a person who I am positive is trying to do a good thing.

 

You're absolutely right. It's obvious you're a wise and fair-minded person, as well as compassionate. Most people have relatives that present them with relational challenges. I think you have exactly what it takes to come up with a way to navigate the situation when the time comes, without compromising safety.

 

Geo

[Daisy]

Tough call.

 

I'm trying to think of this from the opposite direction since I'm a Christian. If an atheist relative was trying to debunk Christianity for my teenager, I'd be pretty steamed.

 

I really hope my daughter would be able, at 15yo, to handle the situation knowing that she is going to run into people all the time who don't share her faith. However, 15yo is still pretty young and impressionable so I'd try to limit contact to what she felt she could handle. It sounds like your daughter did a great job but I sure wouldn't want to put that kind of pressure on her too often. I remember having to deal with my grandfather's racism as a teenager. I could handle it in small doses but I was always thankful when my parents bailed me out.

 

And as far as the creep-o-meter thing. I'd probably tell my daughter that she is right to listen to her intuition. Part of the creepiness factor may just be the fact that the gentlemen in question appeared manipulative and deceptive. Those are good enough reasons for red flags in my book. That said, I really did have a creepy grandpa, so if there are issues here that require strict boundaries, I wouldn't feel badly about putting them into place.

 

You might trying talking very honestly with the grandfather. Tell him your feelings and let him know that he is welcome to share his faith with your daughter IF and WHEN she ever asks him, but his bringing it up in this fashion is counter-productive.

[twoforjoy]

I don't know. Honestly, since we're talking about a teenager, I'd be less inclined to get really angry about a relative trying to change/influence their beliefs. If somebody talked to my young child like that, yeah, I'd be furious and insist on really firm boundaries. But, I do think a teenager is old enough to be exposed to that (and I'd say that holds true in either direction, whether we're talking about a Christian relative trying to evangelize them or an atheist relative trying to debunk their faith), and if that was the only issue--and it sounds like it might not be here--then I'd probably be inclined to just tell my child to proceed however they want. If they're the feisty type, they can challenge them, but if they aren't, IMO there's nothing wrong with simply waiting patiently for the subject to change and not engaging.

 

If he keeps persisting to the point where she doesn't want to see him anymore, then she doesn't have to see him. And, if he asks, I'd just be honest and tell him why: she doesn't appreciate him pushing his beliefs on her, and would rather not be around him if he's going to do that. Then it's on him, not you, to decide whether it's more important to him to try to convert his granddaughter or to have a relationship with her.

[Tarreymere]

you know what bothers me the most, more then the religion part?

 

The fact that your dd said he gives her the creeps. Intuition is huge & I'd explore w/your dd-- Is it just the Jesus part that gives her the creeps? Or is it an overall feeling she has about him?

 

:iagree:

[Joanne]

Ok, so how do you suddenly stop contact with someone who has only been kind to your family?

 

Realize that all the weird stuff happened in the past with his own wife and kids. I observed it, but he has never done anything to harm me. He has never harmed my children. He overruled my wishes back when he was the head of his own household, but since his divorce he has totally submitted to my wishes. He doesn't even get upset when they act up; he actually reassures me that they are fine when I get upset about their behavior. My red flags go up because of what I know about his past and the biases I have, not about his current actions (this god-talk aside). It would really come out of absolutely nowhere for me to suddenly say, "Sorry, we won't be visiting with you again." And really, the guy has had many years to think about what went wrong in his life and change his ways, and I think he does deserve credit for ALL the support and care he has given my family over the years.

 

I know I'm very conflicted on this. I don't think keeping my children safe requires me to totally crush a person who I am positive is trying to do a good thing.

 

All things combined, and especially with your dd's ick factor, I would only have supervised contact.

 

Have you read Protecting the Gift? If not, you might want to. This post I quoted reminds me, in context, of the cultural expectation that you will be "nice" in response to his ick.

 

The boundary violations of family faith *alone* would be enough for me.

 

There are milllions of seemingly nice people that really aren't. Ick factors should be honored.

[3peasinWa]

Does your dd NOT want to see him? Is she doing it only to appease you & grandfather? Regardless of how much positive stuff he's done in recent years - the bottom line is your dd gets a creepy vibe from him & she's not comfortable around him....honor that. Even if that means grandfather's feelings may get hurt.

 

You could say something like, "Since we let you back into dd's life for you both to get to know each other, dd has expressed on more then one occasion that she is uncomfortable around you & at this time my husband & I feel it's best to honor her feelings. I will let you know if she expresses a desire to meet with you again in the future" - (you could even add in there if you want - "but for now we're taking a break from meeting with you.")

& should he try & argue with you the point,etc....just keep reiterating your boundaries - don't engage in a back & forth with him. You can do it gently, but direct.

 

...I almost wonder if it'd be better to leave dd out of it & just say you are feeling uncomfortable? ? IDK.

[WishboneDawn]

The fact that he put her in bed with him and he creeps her out is enough to creep me out.

 

See, I didn't view that as creepy. My daughter slept with my MIL and FIL when she went for sleepovers when she was young. Not my son but by that time they had more grandchildren and places for them all to sleep. Maybe it's a family culture sort of thing but I never felt uncomfortable with it.

 

I think the fact that he did that despite being told NOT to is the real issue.

[WishboneDawn]

It's very easy to say that when you're only seeing part of the picture. He (or his wife) co-slept with her when she was a baby/toddler and they watched her overnight. I didn't co-sleep with her so that was out of my comfort zone. Years later, I brought my baby nephew into my bed when wouldn't sleep at my house, and that wasn't creepy. His issue with his son was because he really felt his son was in an unsafe place, and I had similar concerns based on the whole situation that was going on at the time.

 

He doesn't sound like a bad guy, more like someone who knows he's right and has a lot of concern for those he loves.

 

I think I wouldn't bother saying anything about how your daughter felt myself, I'd just make sure she was never in that position again. If he wants her to meet his girlfriend then, as you said, she can but with her family present. If he visits you then, as you said, he stays in a hotel. You don't need to crush him. You just need to supervise the time he spends with your kids.

 

BTW, I'm Christian and the DH is atheist. The kids are unknown right now. We ALL love Veggie Tales. There are Christian messages but there's also a lot of clever humour. I do get your request for him not to show it to her and I completely respect it, just wanted to defend the honour of Veggie Tales. :D

Edited June 13, 2011 by WishboneDawn

[jujsky]

I would send the e-mail and make it clear that it is your job as a parent to give your child religious training. Let him know he crossed a line, that you don't appreciate being undermined, and that now your daughter is extremely uncomfortable and doesn't want to be around him alone. Oh, pull out the, "We've been down this road before, and I thought we had reached an understanding. I thought you respected me as the mother of your granddaughter and I am hurt and saddened to learn that I was mistaken." I used that with my ILs last time they overstepped (when they cut DS's hair without permission).

 

I'm sorry you're going through this. ILs who overstep and undermine our parental authority are difficult to deal with -- even when their intentions are good, and they usually are good intentions in their own minds.