What do you do when your child does poorly on a standardized test?

[Jenny in GA]

The last couple weeks I have been administering the ITBS to my fourth grade daughter (10 years old) for the first time.

 

She does not appear to be doing well at all.

 

In the Capitalization section, she did not even finish half the test.

 

She did not finish Spelling either. I looked quickly at the ones she did answer and saw that many were wrong.

 

In Reading Comp she actually started crying in the middle; saying the questions were too hard.

 

She commented several times that the "Maps" section was very difficult, and she did not finish it either.

 

She is taking Science right now. I told her to skip the hard questions and come back to them later. She is skipping many of them.

 

Is the ITBS supposed to be this difficult?? What is going on?

 

I've mentioned this before, but one of the reasons I'm so concerned is that my husband was reluctant to homeschool from the beginning (for academic reasons, not social or anything), and it was very important to him that we do standardized testing.

 

I don't know what he is going to think when we get back awful results.

 

So anyway ... if your child did poorly, what did you do? Work them harder the next year? Assume you're doing a bad job homeschooling, and send them to public school? Give them another test? (Or repeat the same test?) Get them tested for a learning disability?

 

What might possibly re-assure my husband if the scores are very low?

 

A bit more about my daughter ... she has always been homeschooled.

The first time we did testing was last year. We did the CAT at home. I'm not sure if I was supposed to time her, but I didn't. With the ITBS this year, it's clear that it's supposed to be timed, so I am.

 

She did fairly well (not amazing, but fairly well) on every section of the CAT except for spelling, which was very low.

 

She has been doing MUS Gamma (just began Delta a couple weeks ago), WWE 3, FLL 3, AAS 3, SOTW 1, and Elemental Science. She loves listening to audio books and she is very musical.

 

She is not a fantastic reader, but she did read Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and Mr. Popper's Penguins and Bunnicula this year, and she loves the Magic Tree House books and research guides -- sometimes she will read 3-4 of them within a week.

[TXMomof4]

Did she have any "prep" time where she practiced for taking the test?

 

This was the first year my older 2 did standards testing through our VA. The test is administered on the computer and they did have weekly practice sessions they had to do that were the exact same format as the actual test. If they hadn't had those practice sessions, I can't imagine what they would have done. The testing is so different from the way we homeschool that they really needed the time to get their brain around what was required.

 

IF it really is as bad as you think, I would take a few weeks/months and use a prep book and then retake. Of course, you may be suprised and she'll do better than you think!

[Denisemomof4]

I would be more concerned if she wasn't doing well on her school work. If she's doing well on her school work but not doing well on her testing, you have to remember that some kids just are NOT good at taking tests! I've heard that since I started to homeschool 13 years ago.

 

If she were doing well on her school work, I would either do a year end portfolio evaluation, or do the CAT since she seemed to do better on that. I don't know what the ITBS is anyway.

 

The first year dd11 took the test is when I realized how bad her spelling was. We've done AAS in the past, may add it in again, but she LOVES workbook type books and has done well with the Apples and Pears spelling. Is AAS working well for your dd? Do you think you should supplement it? The one thing I hated about AAS was that there was NOT enough spelling drills/words to write. I did like the program, though.

 

One last thing is that you have to realize that there is one year where the kids will be behind in math using MUS, which we use and LOVE. I've tried many other math programs and WILL stick with MUS for dd's. I will supplement in the higher grades. I believe it's 4th grade where the kids test lower but maybe someone else can confirm this. It's only for one year, and it's because of the layout of their program. I wouldn't worry about that At All.

[FriedClams]

I would have someone else give the test before I worried too much. Just from your comments it sounds like she was acting in a way, and perhaps had an attitude about the test, that she would not have had if an impartial party were giving it. Also, if it was a timed test and you didn't time it, then the results are off to begin with. Also, I don't think it's a 2 week test - so again that will skew the results.

 

For me, I'd consider this a trial test. Get her feel wet. And then next year, if you want to have her tested, have her take it for real with a proctor, prep time and a true testing environment.

[wapiti]

It is possible to get accommodations (e.g. extra time) for low processing speed on standardized tests like the SAT in high school. I don't know the details of how to get such accommodations (it'll involve testing with a psych), however that's critical to keep in mind for a child who does significantly better on untimed tests. There are kids for whom extra time can make a huge difference in SAT/ACT scores.

 

And then I would choose an untimed standardized test to satisfy your DH's desire to test during elementary school. (maybe the Stanford Achievement Test?)

 

And I'd spend at least a little bit of time doing some test prep before doing more testing.

 

From what you say about reading, I might think about what font sizes she is comfortable reading vs. not. With reading difficulty, the first thing I'd want to rule out is vision with a developmental optometrist.

 

just my two cents

[Pretty in Pink]

A few suggestions:

 

1. Select one test and stick with it. I'm not sure how you would compare test scores from two different tests.
   
2. Have someone else administer the test, perhaps in a group setting if your daughter enjoys that sort of thing. My kids would also complain that parts were too hard if I were administering the test to them, so I don't.
   
3. My eldest son's test scores improved remarkably around 3rd or 4th grade. He has tested consistently in the high 90s in every category since then; prior to that he tested average in every category.
   

 

[Jenny in GA]

Thanks.

A few responses:

 

1) She has had her eyes checked and does wear glasses, which she wore for the test

 

2) The reason I switched to ITBS is because my husband wanted her to have the same test that public schooled kids take (and also because many people seem to think the ITBS is a "better" test)

 

3) I think I gave the incorrect impression that she had a Bad Attitude about taking the test and was being whiny about it.

No, she was sincerely trying her best and was sincerely upset that she was struggling. She started sobbing when I told her she was out of time for the Capitalization test. And she skipped science questions that were hard because that's exactly what I told her to do, so she wouldn't run out of time.

 

4) As far as test prep -- we did do prep last year, before the CAT. And she took the CAT, so it's not like she's never seen a standardized test before. But no, we did not spend time with test prep this year.

 

5) The thing about "If she does well in her schoolwork, that's more important" -- it begs the question, Well, do we just have low standards? That's the whole reason my husband feels it's so important for us to do standardized tests: He wants to make sure we're "keeping up" with the public schools.

[Pretty in Pink]

5) The thing about "If she does well in her schoolwork, that's more important" -- it begs the question, Well, do we just have low standards? That's the whole reason my husband feels it's so important for us to do standardized tests: He wants to make sure we're "keeping up" with the public schools.

 

No, it doesn't mean that you have low standards. How old is your child? Standardized testing is tricky at best for lower elementary children. In addition, I gather that this is your eldest child? Lots of first-born children have perfectionist tendencies; that might explain why she got so incredibly upset when she wasn't able to finish within the alloted time.

 

How does she perform on her schoolwork? If she does well generally and is working at grade level then I think that should be enough for your dh at this point.

 

In order to help her feel better about her performance I would remind her that she is not expected to finish all of the problems within the allotted time; many children do not. In addition, it's my understanding that problems on, say, a 2nd grade exam would cover 1st, 2nd, and 3rd grade skills, so she probably won't know all of the answers. Lastly, if you are administering the test at home then you do have the option of marking the point at which time expired and letting her go on and finish, and just do not count those questions that she completed after time expired towards her score. In this case, she doesn't even have to know that she is being timed. It might help her relax a little bit.

 

I would not discuss testing or it's perceived importance with or in front of her.

 

Another thing to keep in mind, in content areas such as history and science, is whether your child has even covered the topic being tested. Last year my first grader was upset after the history portion of his test because it asked questions about US History; we had spent the entire year covering medieval history. That's not a big deal.

Edited May 23, 2011 by Pretty in Pink

[Vanna]

Thanks.

A few responses..

5) The thing about "If she does well in her schoolwork, that's more important" -- it begs the question, Well, do we just have low standards? That's the whole reason my husband feels it's so important for us to do standardized tests: He wants to make sure we're "keeping up" with the public schools.

Jenny, I'm grateful for your thread b/c I'm about to administer a standardized test to my dd and dc9 for their first time next week. I have postponed testing esp. w/dd because she seems to have "inherited" my "test-phobia" and panics easily in challenging situations (so, I am a bit concerned about how she'll respond).

 

I wanted to respond to your question about "Well, do we just have low standards?" I struggled with that question too in regards to my oldest son. He had been doing very poorly in the chapter tests in Math this yr. I posted a thread about whether I should send him to p.s. b/c I felt he was being lazy. When I asked about how I should grade him for the school yr (based on just the tests or for all his work in general) another poster recommended that I

grade him based on all his work (my son did a lot better on the daily assignments than on the tests).

 

All this to say, I don't really think this is lowering the standards. Our children are a work in progress and they all progress at diff. levels regardless of the "grade level" they are in. We can take advantage beauty of homeschooling and allow them the time they need to grow and progress. Perhaps next school yr she'll do better. I hope this makes sense. <<<blush>>

[DianeW88]

Is she sensing your anxiety over the whole thing and could it possibly be making her more anxious?

 

Does she enjoy homeschooling and is she worried that her father may want to put her in PS because of these test results?

 

Do you feel that she is working up to grade level in all her subjects? Are you challenging her with her work or does she complete it easily?

 

Have you looked into the possibility of a learning disorder, such as dyslexia? My dd has that and standardized test are definitely an obstacle she's had to work on overcoming. In addition....dyslexics are TERRIBLE spellers.

 

How is she at reading aloud?

 

In the short run, I'd get lots of practice test books and have her go over those and then retest. I'd also tell my dh that the constant threat he is holding over my head of sending her back to PS if her test scores are sub par (in his opinion) isn't helping matters one bit....and in fact, is probably making things worse.

[Ellie]

Have you gotten the results back yet? If not, it's premature to worry about it.

 

It is not expected that all children will finish all the questions. That's part of the grading.

 

When you get the test results back, look them over to see what she actually missed. Have you taught those things? Was this the first year that you did so? Are they things which will probably be taught again in more depth?

 

Since this is the first year she has done this particular test, she needs to do at least one more to have a good comparison.

[Maverick_Mom]

I have one child (special needs -- Asperger's, ADHD, seizure disorder, learning disabilities) who tests poorly. His test results are not an accurate reflection of what he can do on a day-to-day basis. I'm in a state that requires standardized testing. Here's what we've done.

 

1. Use a test that is as relaxed as possible. The PASS, from Hewitt, can be used at home and administered by the parent, and is untimed. I take my time with it, dividing each test over the course of 3 or 4 days.

 

2. Analyze his test results and use them to target areas he needs to work on. Although I am philosophically opposed to test prep for the sake of test prep, I've used the info in his test results to choose materials that target areas he struggles with.

 

3. Move to another state where testing is not required. :D Okay, we are moving because of dh's job, not just to escape the testing requirement, but every little bit helps. ;)

[Jenny in GA]

No, it doesn't mean that you have low standards. How old is your child?

 

She is ten.

 

I don't feel like I'm explaining myself very clearly today. Let me try to elaborate ...

 

I don't mean that we have low standards.

 

What I'm trying to say is:

Just saying, "Well, she's doing fine with the work I give her" doesn't mean much. Maybe my expectations are low. Or maybe they're not. Maybe I'm not giving her rigorous enough work. Or maybe I am. But there's no way of knowing, so it's sort of a meaningless assessment.

 

The whole point of her taking these tests is to see if we are keeping up with public school standards and the academic expectations of people and institutions outside of our living room. Basically, we're "testing" to see if she is getting as good of an education as she would in the public schools.

 

To say [if this were the case], "Well, she bombed the standardized test, but she does really well with the daily work I give her" wouldn't inspire much confidence that our workloads or standards were up to par, or that she was getting a sufficient education.

 

So I guess I'm wondering, IF she does end up getting a poor score, is there another to "prove" that we are "keeping up"?

 

Or worse, does that kinda mean that we aren't?:glare:

[Meriwether]

I wanted to point out that standardized tests don't show if you are keeping up with public schools. As many kids score in the 6% as in the 96% and most of the kids testing are in public schools. I'm assuming you are taking the test to see if she makes at least a certain percentile. I would worry, too, if my child wasn't doing well on the test (I've never had mine tested), but I think it would be more meaningful to compare how she does next year to how she did this year.

[Embassy]

I would give it a couple months (at least) and do some test prep and then give her the Stanford Achievement Test. It is untimed. http://www.bjupress.com/testing/stanford.php

[Murphy101]

ITBS is a superior test to the CAT, IMO. It covers more materials and gives a better gauge of progress.

 

What grade ITBS are you giving her? Given your list of 3rd grade materials, I would hope that is what grade ITBS you are giving.

 

Is there a particular reason a 10 year old (normally an age for 4th or 5th grade?) is doing work entirely out of 3rd grade books? NOT judging, but if you are wanting to give a more rigorous education, then I would look at the reasonings for this.

 

It sounds like your dd has testing anxiety. Very normal and can worked through. I have a son who does it too. There are various techniques and methods you can imply PRIOR to test taking that will make it easier on her. I would absolutely look into that and be consistent in using them. It makes a huge difference. The tests will still be difficult, but much less stressful.

 

Also, I agree you should wait to get your results back to see if they surprise you. I was horrified at how well some of my kids did. LOL. Remember the percentiles on these tests are NOT how well your kid did, they are how well your kid did COMPARED to all the other kids taking the same test. That is a very different thing altogether.

 

One last question is why is it taking "several weeks" to get this test done? Normally the ITBS is given over 2-3 hours per day for 3 days.

[Ellie]

You can't really tell anything until you get back the test scores. :-)

[Matryoshka]

I would give it a couple months (at least) and do some test prep and then give her the Stanford Achievement Test. It is untimed. http://www.bjupress.com/testing/stanford.php

 

:iagree: I chose the Stanford over the ITBS because it's untimed. I think they're considered about equal; the CAT I've heard many times is much easier.

[goldberry]

She is ten.

What I'm trying to say is:

Just saying, "Well, she's doing fine with the work I give her" doesn't mean much. Maybe my expectations are low. Or maybe they're not. Maybe I'm not giving her rigorous enough work. Or maybe I am. But there's no way of knowing, so it's sort of a meaningless assessment.

?:glare:

 

Are you using a cirriculum that is for her grade level? If you are, you don't have to worry about if it is rigorous enough. If you are compiling your own cirriculum, you could compare your cirriculum to others at the same grade level.

 

I even did that this year selecting my Science cirriculum, I actually looked at what they were covering in the local middle school over the next couple of years. The order doesn't matter, but I wanted the same general info to be there. I know some parents aren't concerned about that, but if you are, you could compare your cirriculum to make sure it is on grade level.

 

ETA, I also printed out my state standards so I could compare to what we were covering. Also, we just finished ITBS here, we skipped Science and History because we covered those out of order to the test. Other categories went well. I didn't consider it too difficult for my DD, who is a pretty average and unmotivated student. BUT - she does ok with tests. Some kids don't.

Edited May 23, 2011 by coloradoperkins

[ocelotmom]

To say [if this were the case], "Well, she bombed the standardized test, but she does really well with the daily work I give her" wouldn't inspire much confidence that our workloads or standards were up to par, or that she was getting a sufficient education.

 

So I guess I'm wondering, IF she does end up getting a poor score, is there another to "prove" that we are "keeping up"?

Could you put together a portfolio of her work and find a teacher of the appropriate grade to give you an honest opinion of it?

 

I'd consider that more convincing then standardized test scores, especially if she has had little or no prep for the test.

[QuirkyKapers]

Could you put together a portfolio of her work and find a teacher of the appropriate grade to give you an honest opinion of it?

 

I'd consider that more convincing then standardized test scores, especially if she has had little or no prep for the test.

:iagree: I would do a portfolio. I would not consider the testing a waste. i would just take note if there was any area she did poorly on and try and work on those areas. Of course, some kids just don't do well in those situations so that might not be helpful if that is the case.

[abbeyej]

ITBS is a superior test to the CAT, IMO. It covers more materials and gives a better gauge of progress.

 

What grade ITBS are you giving her? Given your list of 3rd grade materials, I would hope that is what grade ITBS you are giving.

 

Is there a particular reason a 10 year old (normally an age for 4th or 5th grade?) is doing work entirely out of 3rd grade books? NOT judging, but if you are wanting to give a more rigorous education, then I would look at the reasonings for this.

 

It sounds like your dd has testing anxiety. Very normal and can worked through. I have a son who does it too. There are various techniques and methods you can imply PRIOR to test taking that will make it easier on her. I would absolutely look into that and be consistent in using them. It makes a huge difference. The tests will still be difficult, but much less stressful.

 

Also, I agree you should wait to get your results back to see if they surprise you. I was horrified at how well some of my kids did. LOL. Remember the percentiles on these tests are NOT how well your kid did, they are how well your kid did COMPARED to all the other kids taking the same test. That is a very different thing altogether.

 

One last question is why is it taking "several weeks" to get this test done? Normally the ITBS is given over 2-3 hours per day for 3 days.

 

I'll second everything Martha said here...

 

You do list mostly 3rd grade materials for a child that you're considering a 4th grader. And you're taking a very long time to work through the ITBS... ... It makes me wonder if perhaps, day-to-day, you're unconsciously helping her compensate for some deficiencies... It *may* be that the answer is just in how *consistently* you're working with her. I'm not there to sit with you and say, "Okay, tell me what a day in your home school looks like? How about a week? How many days per month do you find yourself doing 1/2 day or less?" That may not be the issue at all. But it's one of the things I wonder about given how little information we have right here.

 

Do finish the test and send it in. ... I think you're probably right that if she's regularly running out of time or skipping a lot of questions she doesn't know, she will not score as well as you would like. But wait to see what information it gives you. (You might want to write out your observations now, so that when you get the results back, you can think back over how they compare to what you've seen as you work through the test -- or even just print out your posts here.)

 

I would certainly approach things differently depending on whether she doesn't know the material (is it truly "too hard") or whether she simply approaches it much more slowly than her age and grade level would generally require. It sounds from your description like it may be both -- or that it's truly too hard and that's why it's taking her so long.

 

I think you're right that a time like this can be a good time to sit back and *consider* whether there are changes that you could or should make in your schooling of her. But don't *panic*. She's young. She sounds like she works hard for you and wants to succeed. You're a dedicated mom/teacher. *If* there are truly any challenges, you two can work through them. ... But sure, let the testing help you refocus and decide if there are changes you need to make.

[Ester Maria]

I'll second everything Martha said here...

And I'll third. :)

[Pretty in Pink]

I think you're right that a time like this can be a good time to sit back and *consider* whether there are changes that you could or should make in your schooling of her. But don't *panic*. She's young. She sounds like she works hard for you and wants to succeed. You're a dedicated mom/teacher. *If* there are truly any challenges, you two can work through them. ... But sure, let the testing help you refocus and decide if there are changes you need to make.

 

:iagree:

 

She is 10, but working on a 3rd grade level it looks like from your list of curriculum. Are you administering a 3rd or 4th grade test?

[DianeW88]

ITBS is a superior test to the CAT, IMO. It covers more materials and gives a better gauge of progress.

 

What grade ITBS are you giving her? Given your list of 3rd grade materials, I would hope that is what grade ITBS you are giving.

 

Is there a particular reason a 10 year old (normally an age for 4th or 5th grade?) is doing work entirely out of 3rd grade books? NOT judging, but if you are wanting to give a more rigorous education, then I would look at the reasonings for this.

 

It sounds like your dd has testing anxiety. Very normal and can worked through. I have a son who does it too. There are various techniques and methods you can imply PRIOR to test taking that will make it easier on her. I would absolutely look into that and be consistent in using them. It makes a huge difference. The tests will still be difficult, but much less stressful.

 

Also, I agree you should wait to get your results back to see if they surprise you. I was horrified at how well some of my kids did. LOL. Remember the percentiles on these tests are NOT how well your kid did, they are how well your kid did COMPARED to all the other kids taking the same test. That is a very different thing altogether.

 

One last question is why is it taking "several weeks" to get this test done? Normally the ITBS is given over 2-3 hours per day for 3 days.

 

Yep, I'll fourth this. I didn't realize she was ten. Barring any learning disability, she should be doing more advanced work than you have listed. If you had her testing with the fourth grade test, that would explain her problems in completing it and in knowing the material.

 

If she truly is working beneath her age and grade level, you have plenty of time to catch her up.....it's really not a problem. You will have to push her a bit and cover more material in a day, but it can be done.

 

I also agree that you are taking way too long to complete the testing. Three days is the most time it should take to administer the ITBS. I'd check in the information packet for clarification on this. They may even require that it be completed in that amount of time. Not 100% on that, as I haven't administered one in awhile.

 

More information about your dd and how you're schooling her, would help us give you better and probably more relevant advice.

[rafiki]

.

[Jenny in GA]

Could you put together a portfolio of her work and find a teacher of the appropriate grade to give you an honest opinion of it?

 

I'd consider that more convincing then standardized test scores, especially if she has had little or no prep for the test.

 

I've been thinking of this too.

 

We actually pursued something like that a few years ago -- again, at my husband's insistence.

 

I want to an educational consultant/tutor in town who also homeschooled several children. She did one-on-one testing for about 30-45 minutes, then wrote up that my daughter "was on or above grade level in all areas."

 

My husband was not happy with that. No scores, no details, and he didn't really know who this woman was or what her criteria was. (Plus he suspected that she was not at grade level.)

 

So that's why now we're going the standardized testing route.

 

Anyway, if anyone has done something like this? If so, how did it work? Did you just call the local public school and ask if there was a teacher that could do this? How much did it cost, and what type of information/feedback do they give?

[Jenny in GA]

:iagree:

 

She is 10, but working on a 3rd grade level it looks like from your list of curriculum. Are you administering a 3rd or 4th grade test?

 

I am administering a fourth grade test, since that is what grade she would be in if she were in public school.

 

Wow, a lot of people are commenting that we are behind. It's funny, though, yes, we are in WWE 3 and FLL 3, but the FLL stuff were things I remember doing in middle school (and we never memorized definitions or poems!) and I looked up several of the books used in WWE, and many of them are at a sixth grade level. So even though they have a "3" after them, they don't seem like third grade books to me. But then, what do I know? :lol:

 

They main "reason" she is "behind" is that we started some formal things late. For example, in first grade we did math using math games and Ruth Beechik activities and stuff. I decided when she was in second grade that I wanted a formal math curriculum, and we began MUS at that point .

 

Similarly, I never heard of WWE until she was almost finished with second grade, and that's when we began using it.

[wapiti]

I am administering a fourth grade test, since that is what grade she would be in if she were in public school.

 

Wow, a lot of people are commenting that we are behind. It's funny, though, yes, we are in WWE 3 and FLL 3, but the FLL stuff were things I remember doing in middle school (and we never memorized definitions or poems!) and I looked up several of the books used in WWE, and many of them are at a sixth grade level. So even though they have a "3" after them, they don't seem like third grade books to me. But then, what do I know? :lol:

 

They main "reason" she is "behind" is that we started some formal things late. For example, in first grade we did math using math games and Ruth Beechik activities and stuff. I decided when she was in second grade that I wanted a formal math curriculum, and we began MUS at that point .

 

Similarly, I never heard of WWE until she was almost finished with second grade, and that's when we began using it.

 

If MUS Gamma is generally a 3rd grade level (I don't know MUS well enough to say) then math is one area that she would be likely to be "behind" in for a standardized test. It should be expected, i.e., no surprise.

 

I wouldn't be concerned about WWE3. I don't know FLL/AAS well enough to say, but if all her work is at the third grade level, then it makes sense that a fourth grade standardized test might at least seem more difficult.

 

She loves listening to audio books and she is very musical.

 

She is not a fantastic reader, but she did read Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and Mr. Popper's Penguins and Bunnicula this year, and she loves the Magic Tree House books and research guides -- sometimes she will read 3-4 of them within a week.

 

I can't seem to stop myself from asking again about her vision, just along the lines of ruling it out. When was her last checkup/last prescription? (I have a dd on her third prescription in less than a year :glare:.) Has she ever seen a developmental optometrist, who looks closely at how the eyes work together, beyond just looking for 20/20? (see www.covd.org for more.) The reason I ask is that I see she loves audiobooks, but you say she isn't a good reader.

[tex-mex]

Is she sensing your anxiety over the whole thing and could it possibly be making her more anxious?

 

Does she enjoy homeschooling and is she worried that her father may want to put her in PS because of these test results?

 

Do you feel that she is working up to grade level in all her subjects? Are you challenging her with her work or does she complete it easily?

 

Have you looked into the possibility of a learning disorder, such as dyslexia? My dd has that and standardized test are definitely an obstacle she's had to work on overcoming. In addition....dyslexics are TERRIBLE spellers.

 

How is she at reading aloud?

 

In the short run, I'd get lots of practice test books and have her go over those and then retest. I'd also tell my dh that the constant threat he is holding over my head of sending her back to PS if her test scores are sub par (in his opinion) isn't helping matters one bit....and in fact, is probably making things worse.

:iagree:

 

As a former K-6 schoolteacher, it does sound like there may be a processing or input/output LD going on. I'd suggest putting aside the standardized testing for now and going to get an assessment by a educational diagnostician or your local public school for a (free) meeting to determine if she qualifies for an IEP. They can test and suggest accomodations for classwork and standardized testing. HTH

[Murphy101]

I am administering a fourth grade test, since that is what grade she would be in if she were in public school.

 

Wow, a lot of people are commenting that we are behind. It's funny, though, yes, we are in WWE 3 and FLL 3, but the FLL stuff were things I remember doing in middle school (and we never memorized definitions or poems!) and I looked up several of the books used in WWE, and many of them are at a sixth grade level. So even though they have a "3" after them, they don't seem like third grade books to me. But then, what do I know? :lol:

 

They main "reason" she is "behind" is that we started some formal things late. For example, in first grade we did math using math games and Ruth Beechik activities and stuff. I decided when she was in second grade that I wanted a formal math curriculum, and we began MUS at that point .

 

Similarly, I never heard of WWE until she was almost finished with second grade, and that's when we began using it.

 

Okay. There is your answer then. You are giving her 3rd grade materials and an end of 4th grade exam. The ITBS, when done properly, is not a particuliarly hard test for the most part. There should be some tougher problems toward the end of sections, but the test as a whole shouldn't be tear inducing or over-whelmingly difficult.

 

I would see if you can exchange the test for the 3rd grade ITBS and give it another go in a month or so.

 

Yes, she is slightly behind. I own or have personally looked at all the materials you listed and that is solid 3rd grade. Not soft 3rd grade, but still 3rd grade. What you did in middle school is not necessarily indicative of what should be done in 3rd grade or even middle school.;):grouphug:

[justasque]

If your state has state standards, you could take a look at them (google them) and see where your daughter is compared to the standards, keeping in mind that your plan may be different than their plan for certain subjects (e.g. ancient history vs. state history, etc.).

 

Also - remember that the tests are designed so that MOST students don't get all the answers right. If they did, then you couldn't tell them apart. The test is DESIGNED to stratify/classify students on a spectrum. Just because she has missed a lot of questions, doesn't necessarily mean she has scored poorly.

 

Look at what she got wrong - what kind of questions are they? Are they things you've taught? Does she normally know this kind of thing? Does she know basic test-taking strategy (e.g. eliminate answers that you know are wrong, focus on the rest)? Some bright kids don't test well, because of anxiety/pressure esp. if the test is timed.

 

Also - READ. Reading to oneself teaches spelling, grammar, punctuation, writing, tons of content-area stuff (if you choose good books), etc. etc. Make sure she has books to read and time to do it most days.

[tex-mex]

I've been thinking of this too.

 

We actually pursued something like that a few years ago -- again, at my husband's insistence.

 

I want to an educational consultant/tutor in town who also homeschooled several children. She did one-on-one testing for about 30-45 minutes, then wrote up that my daughter "was on or above grade level in all areas."

 

My husband was not happy with that. No scores, no details, and he didn't really know who this woman was or what her criteria was. (Plus he suspected that she was not at grade level.)

 

So that's why now we're going the standardized testing route.

 

Anyway, if anyone has done something like this? If so, how did it work? Did you just call the local public school and ask if there was a teacher that could do this? How much did it cost, and what type of information/feedback do they give?

Not every consultant is qualified to give an assessment. I agree with your hubby.

 

You need to go to the local college or university's school of education (i.e. in my area, a local graduate school offers educational diagnosticians who specialize in Dyslexia for a $$ fee) or a local children's hospital like Shriner's (they test for free). The local public schools offer free testing (IEP or ARD) since legally you are entitled to it. Many ps nowadays are used to helping homeschoolers with determining LDs and accomodations. It doesn't mean you have to bring them to the public school for services. It is a free assessment. But bring the portfolio to document and prove the areas of concern. Bring the ITBS test too. And note what happened.

 

There are higher priced people to assess LDs like Clinical Pediatric Neuropsychologists. We took our ds to one after his coma -- but it cost us $3500 back in 2004. It did show he had some mild brain injury and LDs. We have a 20 page detailed accomodation letter and test results.

Edited May 23, 2011 by tex-mex

[Pretty in Pink]

Okay. There is your answer then. You are giving her 3rd grade materials and an end of 4th grade exam. The ITBS, when done properly, is not a particuliarly hard test for the most part. There should be some tougher problems toward the end of sections, but the test as a whole shouldn't be tear inducing or over-whelmingly difficult.

 

I would see if you can exchange the test for the 3rd grade ITBS and give it another go in a month or so.

 

Yes, she is slightly behind. I own or have personally looked at all the materials you listed and that is solid 3rd grade. Not soft 3rd grade, but still 3rd grade. What you did in middle school is not necessarily indicative of what should be done in 3rd grade or even middle school.;):grouphug:

 

Right. I am not surprised that she seems to be struggling with the end of 4th grade ITBS given the materials that she is working with. When is her birthday? What grade would she be in were she in public school? Are you moving at a decent pace with her regular school work, or does everything seem to drag out (as the testing has this year)?

[Parrothead]

I am administering a fourth grade test, since that is what grade she would be in if she were in public school.

 

 

 

Yes, your dd may be old enough to be in 4th grade in public school, but you are not teaching her 4th grade materials so she is not going to do well on a 4th grade test. She is a year behind, at least where you are using FLL3 and MUS Gamma.

 

At what grade level is she reading?

 

Since you started some formal things late, I'd use this upcoming year to get your dd caught up in those areas. For example, my dd is behind in spelling since I did not make it a priority this year and we were already behind since we didn't start formal spelling until she was in 3rd grade. So essentially dd will be doing a lot of spelling to make up for being behind.

 

Personally I wouldn't worry too much about the testing. Let her finish, get the results then move forward without any angst. Use the results as a tool to get your dd up to speed, not as a condemnation of your homeschooling.

[tex-mex]

I am administering a fourth grade test, since that is what grade she would be in if she were in public school.

 

Wow, a lot of people are commenting that we are behind. It's funny, though, yes, we are in WWE 3 and FLL 3, but the FLL stuff were things I remember doing in middle school (and we never memorized definitions or poems!) and I looked up several of the books used in WWE, and many of them are at a sixth grade level. So even though they have a "3" after them, they don't seem like third grade books to me. But then, what do I know? :lol:

 

They main "reason" she is "behind" is that we started some formal things late. For example, in first grade we did math using math games and Ruth Beechik activities and stuff. I decided when she was in second grade that I wanted a formal math curriculum, and we began MUS at that point .

 

Similarly, I never heard of WWE until she was almost finished with second grade, and that's when we began using it.

 

Okay...

I'm going to be the lone dissenter on this thread. :glare:

 

I have personally been in the OP's shoes as a public schoolteacher with kids like this in the classroom. During standardized testing time.

 

Whoever earlier said ITBS is the superior test is wrong. Anyone who has taken a graduate level Educational Statistics course (I have) will tell you that ALL standardized tests are designed to be the same. It is meant to be taken "cold" and without teaching to the test. No prompts or giving the student practice test books, either. That will skew test data, btw. (I know... everyone does it. Which is my pet peeve to the authenticity of data national norms. And then you throw in NCLB. Aaauuugh.)

 

I have had kids who were 1-2 grade levels behind taking a standardized test that was too difficult for them. But they took it anyway. You WANT TO SEE a descrepancy (sp?) or difference between ability and grade level (normally below 2 standard deviations) to prove the student qualifies for special services. You should not issue the student a test for a lower grade level. You want to see what the issue is for documentation.

 

If they score at 25% percentile below national norms, then you have a serious learning disability or an ESL student, for example.

 

Scores in the 40% percentile are (normal) the lower end of that grade level OR beginning of "below" grade level. (39% and below)

 

50% percentile is right at grade level.

 

60% percentile is above average. (Normal scores)

 

Once you hit over the 70% percentile... then you are getting to the accelerated or "gifted" learner who is most definitely above grade level. To qualify for GATE, you want a student who had standardized test scores in 2 consecutive years be in the 90% percentile. Most cases, by 7th grade, these students are profiled for Duke TIP testing. Then aimed at International Bacculaureate programs. (AP programs in the public schools are not what it used to be in quality and everyone takes them. IB is the "new" AP.)

 

 

Edited May 23, 2011 by tex-mex

[AngelBee]

I am administering a fourth grade test, since that is what grade she would be in if she were in public school.

 

Wow, a lot of people are commenting that we are behind. It's funny, though, yes, we are in WWE 3 and FLL 3, but the FLL stuff were things I remember doing in middle school (and we never memorized definitions or poems!) and I looked up several of the books used in WWE, and many of them are at a sixth grade level. So even though they have a "3" after them, they don't seem like third grade books to me. But then, what do I know? :lol:

 

They main "reason" she is "behind" is that we started some formal things late. For example, in first grade we did math using math games and Ruth Beechik activities and stuff. I decided when she was in second grade that I wanted a formal math curriculum, and we began MUS at that point .

 

Similarly, I never heard of WWE until she was almost finished with second grade, and that's when we began using it.

:grouphug: In very similar boat with my dd9 and ds11.

 

MUS is a mastery program and testing is usually done based on spiral programs. It will even out in time though. We too use MUS.

[tex-mex]

:grouphug: In very similar boat with my dd9 and ds11.

 

MUS is a mastery program and testing is usually done based on spiral programs. It will even out in time though. We too use MUS.

:iagree: That is the beauty of homeschooling. You can tailor the curriculum to your child's needs. Unlike a classroom where one type of curriculum is crammed down all 30+ (various abilities -- low/average/gifted) throats, so to speak. I think the OP needs to do what is best for her child -- and not be intimidated by others who (are trying to help) but have not walked in her shoes with a struggling student. I have taught for 15 years in public schools and now homeschool my special needs teen. You can do this. It may be at a slower pace or with extra help, but the OP can find what helps her ds. Hang in there! :grouphug::grouphug:

[EKS]

The best thing to do is to look through the test and carefully examine every question she got wrong. (Be sure to do this before you send the test back.) It is even better to sit next to her so you can see which questions she stews over also. If, given her performance on her daily work, you would expect her to have gotten the questions right and she did not, then it is likely an issue with the test or the testing situation (anxiety perhaps). If the questions she is missing are ones you would expect her to miss given what she knows and how she performs day to day, then it is likely *not* an artifact of the testing situation and you need to address it (if you want her to score better in the future). I've given the ITBS numerous times and find it to be on level.

 

However, in looking at my son's 4th grade ITBS report, it looks like a kid needs to get somewhere between 60-65% correct for most of the subtests to place at the 50th percentile.

Edited May 23, 2011 by EKS

[Murphy101]

Are you moving at a decent pace with her regular school work, or does everything seem to drag out (as the testing has this year)?

 

Very good question and important to know before proceeding.

 

Use the results as a tool to get your dd up to speed, not as a condemnation of your homeschooling.

 

I agree. These things are informative tools. Not definitive judgements. The fact that she is struggling across the board vs just in sections or subjects is important to notice and address. Gaps happen, but when I see an across the board issue, that is worth noting with at least a small amount of concern towards adjusting curriculum next year.

 

Whoever earlier said ITBS is the superior test is wrong. Anyone who has taken a graduate level Educational Statistics course (I have) will tell you that ALL standardized tests are designed to be the same.

 

Bottom line is the CAT is notoriously ridiculously easy and gives far less feedback. That is why I said the ITBS is superior to it and I stand by that statement.

 

I have had kids who were 1-2 grade levels behind taking a standardized test that was too difficult for them. But they took it anyway. You WANT TO SEE a descrepancy (sp?) or difference between ability and grade level (normally below 2 standard deviations) to prove the student qualifies for special services. You should not issue the student a test for a lower grade level. You want to see what the issue is for documentation.

 

Which would be relevant IF the child was supposed to be behind and IF the student needs special services. That is NOT what the OP did. The OP gave her 3rd grade materials for the year and an end of 4th grade assessment. The OP did not realize her dd was behind and so far as not given any indication that her dd has learning delays. (OP, am I correct in that your dd does not have dx learning issues that you are aware of? It sounds like a simple case of choosing the wrong grade levels to me?)

 

Once you hit over the 70% percentile... then you are getting to the accelerated or "gifted" learner who is most definitely above grade level. To qualify for GATE, you want a student who had standardized test scores in 2 consecutive years be in the 90% percentile. Most cases, by 7th grade, these students are profiled for Duke TIP testing. Then aimed at International Bacculaureate programs. (AP programs in the public schools are not what it used to be in quality and everyone takes them. IB is the "new" AP.)

 

LOL Great all my kids are gifted then! (well two never get better than 75/80 ish in maths)

Why isn't anyone knocking on my door?:001_huh:

 

The OP took this test bc her dh is concerned she isn't teaching on grade level, so to suggest she ignore the results because that is the beauty of home schooling seems counter productive to gaining dh's support for home schooling.

 

If it was just one subject, I'd say don't worry just continue to work it through the summer.

 

But it isn't just math and I think her dh might have a valid concern that she might be being a bit too easy on dd.

 

Between the test not being properly given and the test not being properly suited to the grade level she actual taught, I think any results of the ITBS will be suspect at this point.

 

The OP can do whatever she feels best for her family. I'm not judging her at all. I think this is a time to assess and evaluate and make changes according to whatever goals they have for their dd's education. I don't know what those changes should be bc I'm not in charge of their family goals. The OP asked about the ITBS and the OP asked what others would do in her shoes. I simply and kindly said gave my opinion.:)

 

I will say my dh is not too harsh about these things. One subject would be an area of concern and he would not be upset about it, thinking every child has an academic weak area. If any of my kids bottomed out across the board on a basic assessment test like the ITBS, my dh would be very concerned and want to know how I was going to change the curriculum and or how we school to change that situation. And I would have a hard time ignoring his concerns under those circumstances.

 

To the OP.:grouphug: It sounds like you just bought the wrong grade level and ITBS exam. No big deal to correct at all. Though it probably smarts the pride some and is going to make having a discussion about home schooling uncomfortable with your dh.:grouphug:

[JadeOrchidSong]

I would give it a couple months (at least) and do some test prep and then give her the Stanford Achievement Test. It is untimed. http://www.bjupress.com/testing/stanford.php

I just got CAT level 2 for my 8 yr old. I am doing some test prep to help him get familiar with the format. It will be timed. I think I will try to do Standard Achievement Test in the future because it is untimed and includes science and social studies.

[tex-mex]

 

 

Bottom line is the CAT is notoriously ridiculously easy and gives far less feedback. That is why I said the ITBS is superior to it and I stand by that statement.

:confused: I have used the CAT (last version was the CAT 9 back in 1999 in the classroom) numerous times as I taught in CA public schools. I am also a BJUP approved test administrator for the ITBS. Honestly? They are both the same. My son's private school in CA used the CAT in 2003 for assessment prior to his coma, for example. I used the same CAT test on my public school students at that grade level. Basically, the CAT (back then) didn't have the fancy (easy to read) graphs for breaking down the test results. When I taught and used the CAT, we as a school site had to have a schoolwide conference with the prinicipal and go over the test results together as it was difficult to understand beyond a single class/student report % as to where the problems lie with our curriculum. I can't imagine how a parent back then could interpret the data mailed to them in July.

 

However, the ITBS is very easy to understand with test results. I am not arguing or meaning to cause offense... but from my professional use of both tests, I do have to disagree. You have the right to believe whatever you believe. Again, this is the beauty of homeschooling. To each their own. ;)

 

 

Which would be relevant IF the child was supposed to be behind and IF the student needs special services. That is NOT what the OP did. The OP gave her 3rd grade materials for the year and an end of 4th grade assessment. The OP did not realize her dd was behind and so far as not given any indication that her dd has learning delays. (OP, am I correct in that your dd does not have dx learning issues that you are aware of? It sounds like a simple case of choosing the wrong grade levels to me?)

Um. The whole point of determining IF a student needs services, intervention, tutoring, accomodations, or help is to test them at grade level versus their peers. How can you place a special needs child if there is no documentation in the first place??? :001_huh:

 

We use the standardized test as evidence in an IEP or SST meeting (along with more evidence collected in a portfolio) to prove to the principal, school psychologist, or parent the child needs help. This is a child who has never been prior ID'ed in the system as anything wrong with intervention or tutoring. If not intervened and allowed to pass to higher grades, this student gets lost and falls thru the cracks, academically. I'm not sure why 3rd grade materials have to correlate to a 4th grade standardized test as it is a moot point. The test will prove regardless of what she studied where she is at with reading comprehension, math skills, and more. I've had kids not at grade level and the test helps them get help. I've also had kids bored to death with grade level curriculum and take the standardized test to show they are in the 90% percentile -- by then, the principal finally believes me and the student skips a grade or two.

 

You are confusing "grade level" with this. I am merely suggesting the OP stops thinking this with her scenario. Take the test. Use the evidence to show hubs and whomever will officially test her for a LD to determine what is best for her. There is no shame in any of this. I think the term "grade level" is erroneous for us homeschoolers as all of us have kids who excel in one subject and need help in another. Why try to label the OP's ds? Obviously, there is something going on. Anxiety? LD? Test phobia? Who knows. But let's give the OP no pressure with the "grade level" label. That is all I am saying. We don't know what is going on.

[Murphy101]

Tex, we will have to agree to disagree on the CAT vs ITBS. Mine took both last year and I felt the CAT was just about useless.

 

I agree there is no shame in a dc having LD. I never thought otherwise.

 

However, I think it ... Imprudent... to leap to that conclusion when in fact the child in question is not displaying any reason for it other than the fact that she was not given grade level materials for the entire year.

 

Valid LD issues are one thing.

 

Not teaching on grade level and then saying they must have LDs when they don't do well on a grade level exam is another thing entirely.

 

All that aside, I could not care less what public schools consider grade level. One of the reasons we home school is because we believe we can and should do BETTER than public schools.:D

[tex-mex]

Tex, we will have to agree to disagree on the CAT vs ITBS. Mine took both last year and I felt the CAT was just about useless.

 

I agree there is no shame in a dc having LD. I never thought otherwise.

 

However, I think it ... Imprudent... to leap to that conclusion when in fact the child in question is not displaying any reason for it other than the fact that she was not given grade level materials for the entire year.

 

Valid LD issues are one thing.

 

Not teaching on grade level and then saying they must have LDs when they don't do well on a grade level exam is another thing entirely.

 

All that aside, I could not care less what public schools consider grade level. One of the reasons we home school is because we believe we can and should do BETTER than public schools.:D

I think it is wise for the OP not to panic over any of this.

 

I am bringing up the dissenting viewpoint to help her see the full spectrum. Her message did raise some red flags to me professionally with it being an issue. Whether it is related to an LD or phobia or whatever, that is their family matter. And I agree with you on the grade level label with homeschooling is silly. I left the public schools to homeschool and am happy I made that choice as I did not want my teen "labeled" by the system. Homeschoolers have the advantage of tailoring a curriculum to their child's needs and strengths... far better than any classroom, public or private, IMO. Have a good evening Martha. (You crack me up, girl!) ;)

[Murphy101]

I think it is wise for the OP not to panic over any of this.

 

:iagree: Completely!

 

I am bringing up the dissenting viewpoint to help her see the full spectrum. Her message did raise some red flags to me professionally with it being an issue. Whether it is related to an LD or phobia or whatever, that is their family matter. And I agree with you on the grade level label with homeschooling is silly. I left the public schools to homeschool and am happy I made that choice as I did not want my teen "labeled" by the system. Homeschoolers have the advantage of tailoring a curriculum to their child's needs and strengths... far better than any classroom, public or private, IMO. Have a good evening Martha. (You crack me up, girl!) ;)

 

Oh now see there, we agree on all points more than we thought.:)

[Jenny in GA]

 

Which would be relevant IF the child was supposed to be behind and IF the student needs special services. That is NOT what the OP did. The OP gave her 3rd grade materials for the year and an end of 4th grade assessment. The OP did not realize her dd was behind and so far as not given any indication that her dd has learning delays. (OP, am I correct in that your dd does not have dx learning issues that you are aware of? It sounds like a simple case of choosing the wrong grade levels to me?)

 

 

OP here.

 

True, she has never been diagnosed with learning delays or anything ... but then again, who would diagnose her, since she's never been to school and I've never taken her to be "diagnosed" somewhere.

 

I do not think the materials she is working on are too easy for her. (I think someone else asked this.)

 

She definitely struggled through some Gamma lessons.

 

WWE 3 seems just right for her -- not impossible, but definitely requires an effort, and sometimes even a slight struggle.

 

And spelling ... oy, that is the worst. We like AAS, but we have to spend a LOT of time reviewing, and reviewing again.

 

Whether I got the "wrong" test I guess depends on what one sees the purpose of the test as. Since we want to see how she's doing compared to fourth graders, then yes, it would be the correct test. I'm sure my husband would not be particularly impressed if I showed him good test scores, but told him that the scores were based on the assumption that she had been left back a grade! :001_smile:

 

After this lengthy thread and all my posts about this, it will be interesting to see if, in fact, she did do poorly, and in what areas. I do know she must have done very badly in capitalization, because she only finished 40% of the test.

[abbeyej]

:confused: I have used the CAT (last version was the CAT 9 back in 1999 in the classroom) numerous times as I taught in CA public schools. ...

 

This might be the reason you aren't seeing the difference. The version of CAT that many home schoolers use is both out of date *and* abbreviated. It's not the same CAT that you administered in public school.

[abbeyej]

Whether I got the "wrong" test I guess depends on what one sees the purpose of the test as. Since we want to see how she's doing compared to fourth graders, then yes, it would be the correct test.

 

This makes sense to me.

 

I think the question becomes: Is she working a little below her age-grade level and struggling with the age-appropriate test because there's some previously-unrecognized learning challenge or because she had a bit of a late start and she wasn't perhaps being pushed as hard as she might have been in other circumstances.

 

These are not questions that are likely to have obvious and immediate answers. But they're worth considering, with this testing experience providing a piece or two of the puzzle along the way.

[tex-mex]

This might be the reason you aren't seeing the difference. The version of CAT that many home schoolers use is both out of date *and* abbreviated. It's not the same CAT that you administered in public school.

Ah. Understood. :D

 

But I do think everyone who takes the homeschool version of the CAT is confusing it with the current STAR test that replaced the CAT? (I could be wrong.)

 

http://star.cde.ca.gov/

 

ETA: How is it abbrieviated? The CAT back then was comparable to the STAR and ITBS. Bureaucrats changed the system due to upcoming demands of public and birthing of NCLB mandates.

Edited May 24, 2011 by tex-mex

[tex-mex]

Whether I got the "wrong" test I guess depends on what one sees the purpose of the test as. Since we want to see how she's doing compared to fourth graders, then yes, it would be the correct test.

Correct. Wait for the results and then make a game plan for what to do next.