Jeanne in MN Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Just got an e-mail from the MACHE (Minnesota) conference people discussing the issue about Ham being dis-invited from the conferences out east. They support Ham. The rest of the e-mail was about how those conferences are run by for-profit groups and the history behind them and it didn't appear very favorable. I'm just really disappointed that MACHE deems it ok to do what Ham has been doing. "The MACHE Board of Directors would like to make it clear that we have never been involved or connected with that particular group in Cincinnati and in no way had any part in the decision to dis-invite Mr. Ham. In fact, we applaud Ken Ham for the position he took which led to him being dis-invited from the Cincinnati convention. (For your information, MACHE also extended an invitation to Answers in Genesis to be an exhibitor at our 2011 conference, but AIG chose not to come.) Most homeschool conventions are conducted by nonprofit state and local organizations as a ministry to the families in their respective areas. The Cincinnati convention is a “for-personal-profit†one..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 The Cincinnati convention is the only one where I've ever felt remotely comfortable. Conferences that adhere to one very narrowly defined view of Protestantism do not offer many speakers I want to hear or curriculum I want to use, so are a waste of my time and money to attend. AiG is not "dis-invited" from the Cincy convention. They are still on as keynote speakers.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[email protected] Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Threads that remain polite and civil will remain open... Moderator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I've heard similar things out my way and predict more arguments about which approach is better. The non-profit conferences are becoming more and more restrictive, and the for-profit ones are struggling with keeping it civil in a diverse environment. I wonder how this will look five years from now? The homeschool vendors I know are increasingly saying that the conferences are not money-makers like they once were, but they think that the for-profit model has promise for them because of greater traffic from a more diverse crowd. Time will tell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Threads that remain polite and civil will remain open... Moderator Thank you! I am hoping that we can go back to having some good thoughtful discussions....now that a bit of time has past ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 The Midwest Conference is the only one I have been willing to go to because our state's conference is definitely very narrow in viewpoint. I am saddened by the divisive spirit at many of these kinds of functions. One of these days I'm just going to announce I'll be in Columbus, or Cleveland, or wherever for three days at the Holiday Inn with a reserved conference room. You will be welcome to join me. I'll provide the Godiva Double Chocolate Cheesecake and my mil's rum cake as well as some very fine cheeses. You bring what you want and we'll have a "conference". Bring your viewpoints with you. My faith isn't fragile enough to have to avoid any of you, my fellow WTM'ers. With any luck, SWB will need a break from her crazy life and show up with her favorite wine and some of those marvelous foods she waxes poetic about on her blog. We can shower her with cases of chocolate chips and m & m's so that she can weather the storms of future conventions! As for profit vs. non-profit. I think it's hard for vendors to make money with costs of EVERYTHING, gas, lodging, food, etc. going up. We homeschoolers like our bargains and it costs a lot for these businesses to be exhibitors. When homeschooling was a bit more in its infancy, conventions were places people went to get acquainted with the available curriculums. But, now it's possible to see sample lessons online and with forums such as this, getting reviews from real people who have tried to implement the product, means that one doesn't necessarily have to hold the books in your hands in order to get a feel for whether it will work for your child or not. The cost for me to attend Cincinnati, not including food or the cost of registration, just gas and lodging, would be $277.00. With food an registration, well, it's a rather large chunk of change that I'd rather spend on books. Imagine if I were paying exhibiting fees and paying an employee to man my booth while I spoke, plus that person's lodging and food. How much would I need to sell in order to break even much less turn a profit. I am sure internet business is much, much more profitable. I would think that a narrower scope, smaller crowd type convention would be "money down a hole" for many vendors. Personally, I think Peace Hill Press and my other favorites need to set up inside my nearest Barnes and Nobles. This would make me incredibly giddy which leads to the spending of money, the eating of chocolate, and the drinking of lattes. No conference needed! Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KristinaBreece Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 The Midwest Conference is the only one I have been willing to go to because our state's conference is definitely very narrow in viewpoint. I am saddened by the divisive spirit at many of these kinds of functions. One of these days I'm just going to announce I'll be in Columbus, or Cleveland, or wherever for three days at the Holiday Inn with a reserved conference room. You will be welcome to join me. I'll provide the Godiva Double Chocolate Cheesecake and my mil's rum cake as well as some very fine cheeses. You bring what you want and we'll have a "conference". Bring your viewpoints with you. My faith isn't fragile enough to have to avoid any of you, my fellow WTM'ers. With any luck, SWB will need a break from her crazy life and show up with her favorite wine and some of those marvelous foods she waxes poetic about on her blog. We can shower her with cases of chocolate chips and m & m's so that she can weather the storms of future conventions! As for profit vs. non-profit. I think it's hard for vendors to make money with costs of EVERYTHING, gas, lodging, food, etc. going up. We homeschoolers like our bargains and it costs a lot for these businesses to be exhibitors. When homeschooling was a bit more in its infancy, conventions were places people went to get acquainted with the available curriculums. But, now it's possible to see sample lessons online and with forums such as this, getting reviews from real people who have tried to implement the product, means that one doesn't necessarily have to hold the books in your hands in order to get a feel for whether it will work for your child or not. The cost for me to attend Cincinnati, not including food or the cost of registration, just gas and lodging, would be $277.00. With food an registration, well, it's a rather large chunk of change that I'd rather spend on books. Imagine if I were paying exhibiting fees and paying an employee to man my booth while I spoke, plus that person's lodging and food. How much would I need to sell in order to break even much less turn a profit. I am sure internet business is much, much more profitable. I would think that a narrower scope, smaller crowd type convention would be "money down a hole" for many vendors. Personally, I think Peace Hill Press and my other favorites need to set up inside my nearest Barnes and Nobles. This would make me incredibly giddy which leads to the spending of money, the eating of chocolate, and the drinking of lattes. No conference needed! Faith Columbus sounds good. I could bring... Oreo Stuffed Chocolate Chip Cookies! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrappyhomeschooler Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 The Midwest Conference is the only one I have been willing to go to because our state's conference is definitely very narrow in viewpoint. I am saddened by the divisive spirit at many of these kinds of functions. One of these days I'm just going to announce I'll be in Columbus, or Cleveland, or wherever for three days at the Holiday Inn with a reserved conference room. You will be welcome to join me. I'll provide the Godiva Double Chocolate Cheesecake and my mil's rum cake as well as some very fine cheeses. You bring what you want and we'll have a "conference". Bring your viewpoints with you. My faith isn't fragile enough to have to avoid any of you, my fellow WTM'ers. With any luck, SWB will need a break from her crazy life and show up with her favorite wine and some of those marvelous foods she waxes poetic about on her blog. We can shower her with cases of chocolate chips and m & m's so that she can weather the storms of future conventions! As for profit vs. non-profit. I think it's hard for vendors to make money with costs of EVERYTHING, gas, lodging, food, etc. going up. We homeschoolers like our bargains and it costs a lot for these businesses to be exhibitors. When homeschooling was a bit more in its infancy, conventions were places people went to get acquainted with the available curriculums. But, now it's possible to see sample lessons online and with forums such as this, getting reviews from real people who have tried to implement the product, means that one doesn't necessarily have to hold the books in your hands in order to get a feel for whether it will work for your child or not. The cost for me to attend Cincinnati, not including food or the cost of registration, just gas and lodging, would be $277.00. With food an registration, well, it's a rather large chunk of change that I'd rather spend on books. Imagine if I were paying exhibiting fees and paying an employee to man my booth while I spoke, plus that person's lodging and food. How much would I need to sell in order to break even much less turn a profit. I am sure internet business is much, much more profitable. I would think that a narrower scope, smaller crowd type convention would be "money down a hole" for many vendors. Personally, I think Peace Hill Press and my other favorites need to set up inside my nearest Barnes and Nobles. This would make me incredibly giddy which leads to the spending of money, the eating of chocolate, and the drinking of lattes. No conference needed! Faith Oh yeah! Columbus is much closer to me than Cincy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMary2 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I'm just really disappointed that MACHE deems it ok to do what Ham has been doing. Doing what? Giving his opinion? I am not saying I agree/diagree/like/dislike Ken Ham. I'd like to see all the nonsense and "disinviting" stop. These conferences draw all kinds of people to them, not just one kind. I think it is ridiculous and rude to disinvite someone simply because they have the audacity to express their opinion. Futher, I find it insulting that as someone who attends conferences, I seem to not be allowed to make my own decision as to which speaker I want to hear or not hear. Someone who doesn't like Ham, will visit another speaker. I only agree with disinviting someone if they are found out as a KKK guy or something equally as horrible, but not because they hold a different opinion and dare to voice it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Doing what? Giving his opinion? I am not saying I agree/diagree/like/dislike Ken Ham. I'd like to see all the nonsense and "disinviting" stop. These conferences draw all kinds of people to them, not just one kind. I think it is ridiculous and rude to disinvite someone simply because they have the audacity to express their opinion. Ken Ham doesn't *want* the conferences to draw all sorts of people. He is the one who was speaking against diversity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Personally, I think Peace Hill Press and my other favorites need to set up inside my nearest Barnes and Nobles. This would make me incredibly giddy which leads to the spending of money, the eating of chocolate, and the drinking of lattes. No conference needed! Faith :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I am a MACHE member and was disappointed too. I did contact them this am to let them know how I felt. Aargh, why can't we all just get along? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMary2 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Ken Ham doesn't *want* the conferences to draw all sorts of people. He is the one who was speaking against diversity. So? Then he can disinvite himself if he doesn't like "diversity." The man is still entitled to his opinion and millions are entitled to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbollin Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) . I wonder how this will look five years from now? The homeschool vendors I know are increasingly saying that the conferences are not money-makers like they once were, but they think that the for-profit model has promise for them because of greater traffic from a more diverse crowd. Time will tell... That sums up my general thoughts about the 2 business models that are out there with for profit regional conventions and the non profit state wide support groups. I hope the state wide support groups that depend on the money they make by hosting state wide (versus regional) conventions to support their budgets are creative enough to find new ways to bring income. You know.. give fees a chance. or paying for magazines, or other things. I've been thankful for the state wide groups that provided help. I just didn't like the business model of the conferences they hosted. Both businesses serve different needs in my homeschooling. I'd hate to see any of them out of business. I'd love to see ways that they can work together. But that might take a miracle. but the chocolate festival has a lot of promise. -crystal Edited March 28, 2011 by cbollin edit to talk about chocolate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 The man is still entitled to his opinion and millions are entitled to disagree. That is certainly true. But no group, no individual, no conference is required to give him a platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paintedlady Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 My sister in TN sent me a similar email that she received from her local group. Basically their complaint is that the big conferences just come in to make money and that they don't support local homeschoolers like the local conference groups do and are essentially bankrupting the local conferences. While I understand their concern I also think there's nothing wrong with running a conference for profit. Competition is a good thing. Personally I support and attend our local conferences most years. This year I'l be attending the Cinci. conference but I doubt I'll want to fork out the money to travel every year and will back to the local conference again next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 The Midwest Conference is the only one I have been willing to go to because our state's conference is definitely very narrow in viewpoint. I am saddened by the divisive spirit at many of these kinds of functions. One of these days I'm just going to announce I'll be in Columbus, or Cleveland, or wherever for three days at the Holiday Inn with a reserved conference room. You will be welcome to join me. I'll provide the Godiva Double Chocolate Cheesecake and my mil's rum cake as well as some very fine cheeses. You bring what you want and we'll have a "conference". Bring your viewpoints with you. My faith isn't fragile enough to have to avoid any of you, my fellow WTM'ers. With any luck, SWB will need a break from her crazy life and show up with her favorite wine and some of those marvelous foods she waxes poetic about on her blog. We can shower her with cases of chocolate chips and m & m's so that she can weather the storms of future conventions! As for profit vs. non-profit. I think it's hard for vendors to make money with costs of EVERYTHING, gas, lodging, food, etc. going up. We homeschoolers like our bargains and it costs a lot for these businesses to be exhibitors. When homeschooling was a bit more in its infancy, conventions were places people went to get acquainted with the available curriculums. But, now it's possible to see sample lessons online and with forums such as this, getting reviews from real people who have tried to implement the product, means that one doesn't necessarily have to hold the books in your hands in order to get a feel for whether it will work for your child or not. The cost for me to attend Cincinnati, not including food or the cost of registration, just gas and lodging, would be $277.00. With food an registration, well, it's a rather large chunk of change that I'd rather spend on books. Imagine if I were paying exhibiting fees and paying an employee to man my booth while I spoke, plus that person's lodging and food. How much would I need to sell in order to break even much less turn a profit. I am sure internet business is much, much more profitable. I would think that a narrower scope, smaller crowd type convention would be "money down a hole" for many vendors. Personally, I think Peace Hill Press and my other favorites need to set up inside my nearest Barnes and Nobles. This would make me incredibly giddy which leads to the spending of money, the eating of chocolate, and the drinking of lattes. No conference needed! Faith :iagree:Cleveland Chocolate, lattes, my most favorite TWTM friends...I'm there.:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMary2 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 That is certainly true. But no group, no individual, no conference is required to give him a platform. Again, I say, so? It isn't as if Ken Ham's viewpoints weren't known prior to inviting him. It is rude to disinvite someone for expressing an opinion. He is known for being controversial, so the whole "no conference is required to give him a platform" thing doesn't wash after they have invited him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mother Superior Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 We have two large state conferences here in Illinois-- I feel comfortable at neither of them. It really irritates me that the organizers of state conferences want to limit my choices in speakers and curricula. For anyone interested, I blogged about this exact topic today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mother Superior Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 the midwest conference is the only one i have been willing to go to because our state's conference is definitely very narrow in viewpoint. I am saddened by the divisive spirit at many of these kinds of functions. One of these days i'm just going to announce i'll be in columbus, or cleveland, or wherever for three days at the holiday inn with a reserved conference room. You will be welcome to join me. I'll provide the godiva double chocolate cheesecake and my mil's rum cake as well as some very fine cheeses. You bring what you want and we'll have a "conference". Bring your viewpoints with you. My faith isn't fragile enough to have to avoid any of you, my fellow wtm'ers. With any luck, swb will need a break from her crazy life and show up with her favorite wine and some of those marvelous foods she waxes poetic about on her blog. We can shower her with cases of chocolate chips and m & m's so that she can weather the storms of future conventions! As for profit vs. Non-profit. I think it's hard for vendors to make money with costs of everything, gas, lodging, food, etc. Going up. We homeschoolers like our bargains and it costs a lot for these businesses to be exhibitors. When homeschooling was a bit more in its infancy, conventions were places people went to get acquainted with the available curriculums. But, now it's possible to see sample lessons online and with forums such as this, getting reviews from real people who have tried to implement the product, means that one doesn't necessarily have to hold the books in your hands in order to get a feel for whether it will work for your child or not. The cost for me to attend cincinnati, not including food or the cost of registration, just gas and lodging, would be $277.00. With food an registration, well, it's a rather large chunk of change that i'd rather spend on books. Imagine if i were paying exhibiting fees and paying an employee to man my booth while i spoke, plus that person's lodging and food. How much would i need to sell in order to break even much less turn a profit. I am sure internet business is much, much more profitable. I would think that a narrower scope, smaller crowd type convention would be "money down a hole" for many vendors. Personally, i think peace hill press and my other favorites need to set up inside my nearest barnes and nobles. This would make me incredibly giddy which leads to the spending of money, the eating of chocolate, and the drinking of lattes. No conference needed! Faith count me in!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Again, I say, so? It isn't as if Ken Ham's viewpoints weren't known prior to inviting him. It is rude to disinvite someone for expressing an opinion. He is known for being controversial, so the whole "no conference is required to give him a platform" thing doesn't wash after they have invited him. When you attack the conference, itself, I think it absolutely does. Not only that, but he made some extremely large leaps in logic and told a couple of untruths. Spreading falsehoods is not the same as expressing an opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 My sister in TN sent me a similar email that she received from her local group. Basically their complaint is that the big conferences just come in to make money and that they don't support local homeschoolers like the local conference groups do and are essentially bankrupting the local conferences. While I understand their concern I also think there's nothing wrong with running a conference for profit. Competition is a good thing. Personally I support and attend our local conferences most years. This year I'l be attending the Cinci. conference but I doubt I'll want to fork out the money to travel every year and will back to the local conference again next year. I don't attend the smaller conferences because they are generally very conservative and would have little to offer me. They do not have the curriculem I would use and I do not have interest in their speakers. If they wanted to make things a bit more interesting I might attend but not in their present state. One cannot alienate people and then complain when people don't show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 My sister in TN sent me a similar email that she received from her local group. Basically their complaint is that the big conferences just come in to make money and that they don't support local homeschoolers like the local conference groups do and are essentially bankrupting the local conferences. I attended the book fair piece of my state conference for several years, paying the *full price* to attend the conference in order to do so. I made suggestions about speakers I would like to see and they were ignored. That's fine. No conference can be forced to invite SWB or anyone else. BUT, it means when a conference came along that *did* suit my needs I jumped on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 The Ham situation has taken on a new twist in my world. He's supposed to speak at my church's conference in June. I had no idea of this when I sent my pastor some links about this whole hullabaloo with Cincy. Our church uses AiG materials for VBS, and has, at times, used AiG stuff for adult Sunday school classes. My pastor forwarded what I sent to the conference director. AFAIK, they're just sorta watching to see what happens. We had a conversation about it and I mentioned that he (the pastor) also "names names" but he's never gone to a convention with opposing viewpoints and been rude. His response was, "No matter who else is speaking, or even if you're in a debate with someone who's vehemently opposed to your viewpoint, it hinders the gospel to be anything but gracious and gentlemanly about it." He went on to say that he will absolutely not get involved with a "debate" that is meant to be a fight. He said nothing good comes from it at all and it just divides people up, sets up "camps", the gospel message is tainted, all dialoging stops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMary2 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 When you attack the conference, itself, I think it absolutely does. Not only that, but he made some extremely large leaps in logic and told a couple of untruths. Spreading falsehoods is not the same as expressing an opinion. Spreading falsehoods according to whose truth? This is the problem. The man should not have been disinvited. The attendees should have the choice to walk in to his workshop or not. Ken is now a "victim." Had only 5 attendees shown up to his room, that might have been a stronger admonishment. These conferences should allow all kinds and let all kinds attend. Homeschooling should be the theme, not young earth vs old earth vs athiest vs evolutionist etc. I don't like being told by other christians to believe anymore than I like government schools telling me what to believe. I am intelligent enough to decide who I want to hear. I also know that if I am in the middle of a workshop and I don't like what the speaker says, or his/her attitude, I can get up and walk out! I have done that and I didn't feel the need to complain about the person. I realize others DO want to hear them and do agree with them. The whole thing is ridiculous and it isn't doing anything positive for the homeschooling movement. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessAriel Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 nt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 The Ham situation has taken on a new twist in my world. He's supposed to speak at my church's conference in June. I had no idea of this when I sent my pastor some links about this whole hullabaloo with Cincy. Our church uses AiG materials for VBS, and has, at times, used AiG stuff for adult Sunday school classes. My pastor forwarded what I sent to the conference director. AFAIK, they're just sorta watching to see what happens. We had a conversation about it and I mentioned that he (the pastor) also "names names" but he's never gone to a convention with opposing viewpoints and been rude. His response was, "No matter who else is speaking, or even if you're in a debate with someone who's vehemently opposed to your viewpoint, it hinders the gospel to be anything but gracious and gentlemanly about it." He went on to say that he will absolutely not get involved with a "debate" that is meant to be a fight. He said nothing good comes from it at all and it just divides people up, sets up "camps", the gospel message is tainted, all dialoging stops. He sounds like a wise man. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Just got an e-mail from the MACHE (Minnesota) conference people discussing the issue about Ham being dis-invited from the conferences out east. They support Ham. The rest of the e-mail was about how those conferences are run by for-profit groups and the history behind them and it didn't appear very favorable. I'm just really disappointed that MACHE deems it ok to do what Ham has been doing. "The MACHE Board of Directors would like to make it clear that we have never been involved or connected with that particular group in Cincinnati and in no way had any part in the decision to dis-invite Mr. Ham. In fact, we applaud Ken Ham for the position he took which led to him being dis-invited from the Cincinnati convention. (For your information, MACHE also extended an invitation to Answers in Genesis to be an exhibitor at our 2011 conference, but AIG chose not to come.) Most homeschool conventions are conducted by nonprofit state and local organizations as a ministry to the families in their respective areas. The Cincinnati convention is a “for-personal-profit†one..." Other things that are run "for-personal-profit" include book stores, gas stations and grocery stores. Even Christian bookstores, publishers, book distributors and many Christian authors are hoping to get a return on their efforts. WHY do we have such an attitude that a workman is not worthy of his hire? We don't expect that most homeschool publishers or authors will provide their curriculum for free. (I could go on, but I'll stop. I think there is a lot of protection of individual rice bowls happening.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abreakfromlife Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Conferences that adhere to one very narrowly defined view of Protestantism do not offer many speakers I want to hear or curriculum I want to use, so are a waste of my time and money to attend. :iagree: I just want a homeschooling conference. I don't want a christian worldview conference or parenting conference...just give me a solid homeschool conference that includes all kinds of christians and seculars and everything in-between and let's just talk about education! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 :iagree: I just want a homeschooling conference. I don't want a christian worldview conference or parenting conference...just give me a solid homeschool conference that includes all kinds of christians and seculars and everything in-between and let's just talk about education! :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Spreading falsehoods according to whose truth? This is the problem. The man should not have been disinvited. The attendees should have the choice to walk in to his workshop or not. Ken is now a "victim." Had only 5 attendees shown up to his room, that might have been a stronger admonishment. These conferences should allow all kinds and let all kinds attend. Homeschooling should be the theme, not young earth vs old earth vs athiest vs evolutionist etc. I don't like being told by other christians to believe anymore than I like government schools telling me what to believe. I am intelligent enough to decide who I want to hear. I also know that if I am in the middle of a workshop and I don't like what the speaker says, or his/her attitude, I can get up and walk out! I have done that and I didn't feel the need to complain about the person. I realize others DO want to hear them and do agree with them. The whole thing is ridiculous and it isn't doing anything positive for the homeschooling movement. Period. The conference DOES allow all kinds to attend. There are still YE speakers speaking. His POV isn't being squelched. There seems to be a bit of confusion as to whether he was told to "play nice" from the get-go with this particular convention, but I do know from a conversation with one of the board members of ICHE (Illinois) that they do put something in the speaker's packet that says that all presenters are to be courteous and respectful of each other. Now, that's not a "contract", but it is expected that speakers not condemn other speakers. Ham is invited to ICHE and they're taking no stand (that I'm aware of) regarding Cincy. But it does seem to be a common expectation that speakers behave themselves with courtesy and respect. Like what I said in the "talking to your dh" thread, you can be courteous and respectful and still disagree. I think Ham may have left courtesy and respect at the door. I don't know if that's a common pattern of behavior for him, or if he momentarily went off the deep end, but he discredits his ministry and viewpoint by being nasty about it. No one likes a belligerent Christian, even if what they're saying is true. Delivery makes a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMary2 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 :iagree: I just want a homeschooling conference. I don't want a christian worldview conference or parenting conference...just give me a solid homeschool conference that includes all kinds of christians and seculars and everything in-between and let's just talk about education! This too! I have already decided most of my beliefs and if I want parenting tips I will go to a parenting conference. Give me ideas on making learning fun, 10 ways to science, etc, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvasMom Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 So? Then he can disinvite himself if he doesn't like "diversity." The man is still entitled to his opinion and millions are entitled to disagree. No, he's actually not. The time and place weren't appropriate. The homeschool conference is not a church conference. The focus is education, not theology. Ham clearly has a vendeta with Enns and has since the Telling God's Story came out. He used the conference as his personal platform against Enns and that's not appropriate. Hence the disinvite. He gives enough talks that he certainly can use his own personal speaking engagements to gossip and slam anyone he chooses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 He sounds like a wise man. :) Thanks! I agree. :) :iagree: I just want a homeschooling conference. I don't want a christian worldview conference or parenting conference...just give me a solid homeschool conference that includes all kinds of christians and seculars and everything in-between and let's just talk about education! For the most part, so do I! That's why I agonize over which conferences to attend. I usually pick the one with the most academic workshops, or I just opt for the vendor hall pass and skip the workshops all together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMary2 Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 No, he's actually not. The time and place weren't appropriate. The homeschool conference is not a church conference. The focus is education, not theology. Ham clearly has a vendeta with Enns and has since the Telling God's Story came out. He used the conference as his personal platform against Enns and that's not appropriate. Hence the disinvite. He gives enough talks that he certainly can use his own personal speaking engagements to gossip and slam anyone he chooses. Really? Then no one else speaking at the conference is entitled to their opinion either. Again, it is insulting to attendees to not be given the choice. What about the people who registered because they wanted to hear him speak? He is known for being controversial, it's not like his comments are really shocking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Really? Then no one else speaking at the conference is entitled to their opinion either. Again, it is insulting to attendees to not be given the choice. What about the people who registered because they wanted to hear him speak? He is known for being controversial, it's not like his comments are really shocking. He's entitled to his opinions; he's not entitled to slam other presenters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birchbark Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I think it is ridiculous and rude to disinvite someone simply because they have the audacity to express their opinion. :iagree: I am a big believer in free speech, "bad spirit" and all. In ridding any particular forum of critics, controversial views, etc. you are doing the same thing many are accusing Ken Ham of. I love what someone on this board said once in defense of critical reviews: "I have learned much from the fine art of 'curriculum bashing.'" On the flip side of the same coin, I would enjoy more diversity at our convention. (We are MACHE attenders.) We are big grown-ups with brains and if the Bible is important to us, we can always study it ourselves to see who is right. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvasMom Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Really? Then no one else speaking at the conference is entitled to their opinion either. Again, it is insulting to attendees to not be given the choice. What about the people who registered because they wanted to hear him speak? He is known for being controversial, it's not like his comments are really shocking. I hear and see the things he says and how it's just non-stop Enns this and Enns that and then he goes to a conference and its more about how dreadful Enns is and my word it is aggravating. It's like a kid who just keeps tattling incessantly about a sibling and drives me bonkers. I'm like "OK ALREADY!! We get it! You are saying Enns has bad theology. Got it. Loud and clear buddy. Can we move on now?" I don't see other speakers doing that. Not at all. Not like what is happening here. Interestingly enough, I have yet to see Enns come back with a counterattack on Ham. I think that's very manly of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardening momma Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 One of these days I'm just going to announce I'll be in Columbus, or Cleveland, or wherever for three days at the Holiday Inn with a reserved conference room. You will be welcome to join me. I'll provide the Godiva Double Chocolate Cheesecake and my mil's rum cake as well as some very fine cheeses. You bring what you want and we'll have a "conference". Bring your viewpoints with you. My faith isn't fragile enough to have to avoid any of you, my fellow WTM'ers. With any luck, SWB will need a break from her crazy life and show up with her favorite wine and some of those marvelous foods she waxes poetic about on her blog. We can shower her with cases of chocolate chips and m & m's so that she can weather the storms of future conventions! Columbus sounds good. I could bring... Oreo Stuffed Chocolate Chip Cookies! :D Oh yeah! Columbus is much closer to me than Cincy! I'd come. :001_smile: I can drive to Columbus. Cleveland too, but that's 2 hours farther away. :iagree: I just want a homeschooling conference. I don't want a christian worldview conference or parenting conference...just give me a solid homeschool conference that includes all kinds of christians and seculars and everything in-between and let's just talk about education! :iagree: Although I will be going to (or buying recordings of) a couple of parenting talks this year. It's just something I need right now, but it won't be consuming my time at the conference. I'm surprised at how many parenting sessions there are at Cincy. I could do with fewer parenting and more homeschooling sessions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvasMom Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 He's entitled to his opinions; he's not entitled to slam other presenters. :iagree: There IS a difference and I think more of us do understand that than are willing to admit it. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Really? Then no one else speaking at the conference is entitled to their opinion either. Again, it is insulting to attendees to not be given the choice. What about the people who registered because they wanted to hear him speak? He is known for being controversial, it's not like his comments are really shocking. Really? That someone is "part of a plan to destablize the kingdom of God." would actually be VERY shocking to me. That certain Christian authors of classical homeschooling materials are "not" Christian and Christians shouldn't buy their materials would be VERY shocking to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[email protected] Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Repetition of points that have been made and responded to will be deleted. Don't make us name names. :) Moderator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlifemom Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Repetition of points that have been made and responded to will be deleted. Don't make us name names. :) Moderator Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Repetition of points that have been made and responded to will be deleted. Don't make us name names. :) Moderator No one should be hamming it up. :lol::lol::lol: Sorry; couldn't resist. Does this get me into trouble? :001_unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paintedlady Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I don't attend the smaller conferences because they are generally very conservative and would have little to offer me. They do not have the curriculem I would use and I do not have interest in their speakers. If they wanted to make things a bit more interesting I might attend but not in their present state. One cannot alienate people and then complain when people don't show. I attended the book fair piece of my state conference for several years, paying the *full price* to attend the conference in order to do so. I made suggestions about speakers I would like to see and they were ignored. That's fine. No conference can be forced to invite SWB or anyone else. BUT, it means when a conference came along that *did* suit my needs I jumped on it. I agree with you both . I have no problems with for-profit conferences at all. I happen to be very conservative and enjoy the local conferences near me and I (hope) to enjoy the Cinci. convention which has a broader scope of speakers & vendors. I'm for all conferences! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supertechmom Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 :iagree: I just want a homeschooling conference. I don't want a christian worldview conference or parenting conference...just give me a solid homeschool conference that includes all kinds of christians and seculars and everything in-between and let's just talk about education! I agree!!!! I want to walk into a homeschool conference that gives me real world advice on how to homeschool my high schooler. Finding out how to write a transcript ....I need help with that. I need a conference that concentrates on EDUCATION. what science is out there, what math, hands-on, supplies, curriculum......Speakers who can tell us how to teach reading, writing, how to navigate scholarships, college transcripts, how to do school stuff..... We all have something we believe in that someone else doesn't. We can't put that aside for a few hours while we figure out educating our kids?? It's not like anyone there is going to become your new personal best friend and you are forced to go home united at the hip with them. Just let me actually have teacher workshops. When I need parenting advice, marriage, advice, teen advice.....I'll find the appropriate conference/outlet for that. Let my homeschooling conference handle EDUCATION. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 This is precisely what I've found. I stopped going to the Indianapolis convention years ago for this very reason. I am shopping for school materials, not a world view. I do not want to be preached to at a convention - I want to hear about teaching and look at/buy books. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 FWIW, I am not trying to be rude but has anyone else read the 'similar threads' below? :lol::lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvasMom Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 FWIW, I am not trying to be rude but has anyone else read the 'similar threads' below? :lol::lol::lol: ROTFL!! Honestly, I can't believe people haven't taken more advantage of the enormous amount of puns that we could use in this discussion. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbalgirl Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 FWIW, I am not trying to be rude but has anyone else read the 'similar threads' below? :lol::lol::lol: Thank you for a good chuckle in the middle of a sort of tense thread! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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